If Guy was “calling wanker a wanker”, that was because the gentleman was truly a wanker! And also because Guy was no longer expecting any positive outcome from the Brexit negotiation. It is a foreseeable outcome of Brexit (but not foreseen by all the Brits) that a forceful exit of Britain from the EU liberates people in the other EU countries to say freely what they think, without the niceties of language that a common membership entails.
As a Belgian resident, I have to add: Guy's party is dying, and he's not particularly popular (in Flanders at least). He touches on one of the things that a lot of people don't like: being a career politician. His party (Open VLD) is fairly out of touch with the general populace - and I think what he was saying only goes to confirm that. He talks about having passion: but the liberal party has been in government for decades and is full of individuals that are completely out of touch with the daily life of common people (hence their party being decimated in recent polling). It's also important to mention that the two highest polling parties in Flanders are seperatist movements - so we'll see in the next 5 years whether the federal system can survive here. Additionally, there is actually a federal party in Belgium - the Worker's Party. I can imagine reading the name gives the impression that they're a bunch of crazy communists - but they're a serious opposition party, and at this moment polling higherthan Guy's party. There's a history in Belgium of omitting certain parties, so I'm sure Guy failed to mention this on purpose. He also really contradicts himself: proselytising on compromise, but then simultaneously saying that politics isn't about pragmatism. It's especially strange coming from someone who has basically been in charge of the country for 10 years to talk about passion - when the government in Belgium is seen as especially techoncratic and bland. However, it has to be said that Belgium really is an amazing country - not necessarily culturally or on the world stage - but for two important reasons: firstly, as Guy mentioned, this art of compromise. Where else will you find 'rainbow' coallitions (the current artfully named 'the Vivaldi coallition) running the country to a rather succesful degree (discounting the few years when we couldn't form a federal government). I think that a lot of the success of Belgium has to do with this, rather than any specific 'leadership' on the prime minister's part. The second point is how Belgium has been able to build up amazingly strong social systems. Education is cheap (free for those that need it), healthcare is cheap and most people seem to be able to survive with what they earn here. Belgian politics is really complicated, but I really appreciate Rory and Alistair having him on. Honestly, this is probably one of the more honest conversations that I've seen with a senior Belgian politician. I hope you guys continue to expand and invite more European politicians on. To me it confirmed a lot of my opinions on him ("I do it for power, to change society" + "I was a libertarian" + "I've only ever been a politician" is a sad recipe), but it also gave me more of an understanding as to what kind of person he is - which is important in politics. Keep up the good work!
The man is an idealogue, so the views of the population/electorate is unimportant unless that view coincides with his ideology, a truly clever and dangerous man just like the ones from the 1930's
My sentiments exactly. I agree with your view of the man. He is so full of contradictions in his apparent expressions in rhetorical words, and his own ideology on what politicians role ought to be. Perhaps a pragmatic-minded person makes a better politician than an emotionally charged politician who thinks like the Man of Lemancha dealing with his windmills.
OK, am Belgian also but basically people here do care very little about our own antics. What did you think about what he thinks about systemic threat on our societies from outside UE ?
@@pierrevanhalteren5733 I agree that Europe needs to integratie further. I think the eu might need to become more federal for that - but having a select group of 15 people doing that... I'm feel like that might not be wise when advocated for by someone whose party seems to love large companies doing whatever they want
This interview was so refreshing seeing everything I stand for & wish for laid out so clearly, if only we were back in Europe to participate in everything! Togetherness is Strength!
The problem with it is the countries aren't together, they have very different needs and capabilities,it is a utopia that takes no account of human nature, in the same way communism didn't, an unworkable dream that ignores the negatives of their dream
@@simonclare100 Only Britain isn't, the other 27 seem to be happy with it as since we left I don't think any other country has even held a referendum since ours let alone voted to leave.
@@alexfrye6 🤣🤣🤣 are you in denial or just naive, massive problems with EU cohesion already, it's just a matter of time before their incompetence and dishonesty backfires on them, with or without the UK, not a good idea to jump back on a sinking ship
@@alexfrye6 fear, if you're claiming all those countries are happy with the EU direction you need to take a closer more honest look, I love Europe but I see where the EU is trying to take it and I don't want to be controlled by them whichever country I live in, my view would be the same whatever nationality I was. my family is mixed race and haven't always lived in Britain but the EU horrifies me, they are not what they claim to be and freedom and equality is not what they'll give you, they'll give you total control from the centre with no decent allowed , they just haven't achieved it yet
Also a little bit too earnest for his own good sometimes. Came across a bit naive here at times, like a young person desperately trying to pull magic insights and lessons from an old master who is basically telling him there is no hidden secret
I think Rory wants to save the Conservative party. Return it to the old days, which is not a very smart thing, since the "old days" is what lead to the current state of affairs.
I like very much Guy Verhofstadt's passion and honesty and how he sees the reality that it is so important to have a strong Europe in the form of the EU against the other super powers in the world we live in today. Also his honesty that things like the structure of defense in Europe should be far more streamlined and admitting that it is not operating well and there is so much money spend on it with little result.If you can see the things that do not work well in the EU then you can change that and that is important to see that and admit that. Also the importance of being able to work together and you can only work together if you can compromise which I find in the UK hard to find.The parties are always fighting with each other but instead you need to find coming ground and working together to get solutions and the voting system in Britain's First past the Vote is encouraging this terrible destructive behavior towards each other. It is also an unfair system because you ending up with a lot of voters who's vote go to an other party they have not voted for.The bad behavior is also such a bad example for people to look at. It makes you feel angry and not feeling you want to be part of that. People need hope and need to be encouraged to go forward in live.So I found him very inspiring to listen too. 👍It was also an excellent podcast 👍
Oh Rory, the same Rosendall that has was arrested for suspicion of rape? The same Rosendall that was bailed out by the met several times? The one that didn’t go to parliment for a year? Shall I go on? Seems like he was calling a spade a spade mate. I normally listen with respect to you Rory, but you are clearly getting a bit butt hurt by the man, on bahalf of your ‘team’.
I think the point Rory was making was in what way did calling him a w@nker advance his cause. Guy did make lots of inflammatory statements during that time that will have failed to get a single person to change their views which is just poor politics. No one has ever been won round by insults.
Great interview - used to go to Belgium a lot on business and was interesting attending meetings in French and Dutch - all good experiences and great beer and bars too! Hope we are a part of the EU again one day soon... As an Englishman who speaks French (thanks to Erasmus and my earlier travels) it was amazing to see people able and willing to switch between languages without issue in order to get things done
Great interview. Guy comes across as a passionate and well meaning politician. Admittedly, he did seem to go out of his way to wind-up many Brits during the Brexit negotiations and I remember comparing and contrasting his style with, say, that of Donald Tusk at the time. There was also that fly-on-the wall Brexit documentary that gave an insight into the behind the scenes discussions and tactics - for the life of me I can't remember the name - probably a BBC production; 'Brexit Behind Closed Doors'?
I'm Dutch, in UK since John Major 1991. Really enjoyed this convo with Mr Verhofstadt. The question about EU defence expenditure - what is it being spent on? Also, Rory, your party has gone.
Each country with it's own systems, it's own version of a capability. Loads are spent in each country to a unique version of a given capability, even if it is deeply inferior to something that Russia or China has... Just a lot of wast...
Apart from the varied systems we buy, the simple economics of joint purchasing is also a thing. If your local grocery store buys items it pays more than if a whole chain of stores pools their resources to buy larger quantities and so on.
A great insight from a leader that was considered controversial by some during his tenure - certainly here in Britain. I do hope that some of the more optimistic predictions will be realised; namely that a) the EU becomes a functioning Federal government that is effective, impactful, better value for money and quicker to respond and, more importantly, b) that the whole of the UK has a much, much closer relationship with the EU. Personally, I would prefer us to be a full member state once more; however, the increasingly polarised views on this point means it unlikely we will move towards anything like this in my lifetime - and we will be the poorer for it.
An interesting and compelling opinion, not entirely without merit. However, I cannot see how the UK can be the root-cause for the lurch to the right for a number of member states - Italy, Austria and the Netherlands among that number - and the resultant machinations that are resulting from that change. @progresstothestars
The very nature of the concept of 'empire' means that they will come and go - or be replaced by other regimes -as they become unstable through a number of factors. However, I haven't heard of the Anglo-Saxon Empire concept /perception before, would you care to expand upon your point? @@imtiazakand3174
@progresstothestars I can't claim, for one moment, to be fully aware of that taking place in Eastern and Southern Europe. What I can say is that the UK may be perceived as a roaring lion on the world stage with a Rasputin-esq spell over the US through the 'Special Relationship'. The truth is, the UK is more often regarded as isolated, irrelevant and weak in world politics - more akin to a house dog, whining and yapping to be let out by its master!! As for the US, the term referred only came to contemporary prominence by W S Churchill as he tried to shame the US into WWII...and, in fact, is much nearer the reverse in many eyes. I do agree, however, that we are all being told what to do by the 'know-alls'...when they appear to know little about the life of the average citizen.
Dank U wel, meneer Verhofstad. And thanks Alistair and Rory for hosting this. Guy checks all the boxes of my own convictions about the EU and Europe. We definitely need more politicians of his ability around in the EU.
What's really dangerous is pretending that the tories aren't as right wing as they are, what's really dangerous is defending their behaviour and pretending it isn't what it is.
They are not that right wing though. It's perfectly fine to dislike them. But people such as you really try and do this attack angle of "first we call them far right, and then once they have that label we can ignore them". When in reality, they are just a bit right. Look at the globe, look at the tories.
Rory's skin seemed very thin here, and it just goes to show how fragile the tory ego is. Shouting down the idea of the torys being closer to afd than the old tory party... they are allied to them in the "european conservatives group"
for me it shows that even the ones who claim to be 'proper' tories are just deluding themselves. Rory has become the extreme of the party and the look on his face, and his demeanour in general, while trying to defend what is basically the NF light says it all@@jjtinkler97
@@U5mR "Basically the NF" It's that kind of thing that he was pointing out isn't particularly useful. IMO, there's some horrible ideas floating about in the Conservatives at the moment, and from my particular perspective I've never thought they were the least worst option in any election. I've become more concerned with the standards that people hold to or don't, rather than just the team they're on though these days. I think that it's a drop in standards generally which cultivates extremes and lets them flourish.
Yes I did found Rory's defending of his colleges odd.He must know by now how uncompromising British politicians are and that counts also for the Labour party. They see it as a weakness to compromise and Verhofstad sees it as a strengt.
Rory. You may not like the comparison to the AFD and say there politics are not normalized. I think the argument is that the conservative party are adopting more extreme right wing positions which are normalizing the AFD. Surely if Rory can use the AFD as a demonstrative example. The politics are somewhat already normalized if all three of you and your audience understand what Guy is referring to,
A very interesting interview. Unfortunately it's reinforced my view that UK politicians will never talk to the UK public as adults, or try to engage in a proper debate about the future. The public just aren't capable or willing to devote the time to understand. That's why three word slogans work.
Isn't it all politics lacking debate? Isn't this why we all like this podcast - because views are challenged enough so that listeners understand them better. On one hand, I like share the comment's view that Guy's strong in that he believes politicians should lead. But without the listening that he seems to show distain for, you'd never right the wrongs, because there's no feedback loop. On the comment that there's no debate on direction of the UK, that was also the problem with EU too. There is a key block of EU politicians that want centralisation (EU military, reducing the EU commission to a concentration of 16 power holders), and yet you have voters who are fed up that the EU doesn't know who it is defending (Hungary?) and who don't feel represented neither by mainstream politics, nor engaged, including not knowing who their supposed EU parliament representative is. How could the debate on UK's vision of its place in EU be clear when the EU has the same existential and directional questions?
The belief the politicians should lead and be strong in their beliefs ? Some examples - Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and all other dictators, another theory that fails in reality
@@simonclare100 You miss the point. He is saying that politicians should stay true to their vision, put it before the public, and allow the public to decide if they want to buy into it or not. All the people you listed did not allow alternate visions to be considered and chosen by the public.
@@radman8321 what makes you think the EU is allowing a different viewpoint to run ?, their intention is to create a superstate, they have claimed as much, they aren't allowing the public to chose, for eg ' the nation state' they are doing everything possible to make that harder by limiting choice and condemning countries who don't fall into line, they cannot tolerate anything that doesn't fit their ideology, that's not democratic, I haven't missed the point at all, attempting to ban the right of vito is actively removing an alternative vision, the only 'choice' is the one the EU approves of.
The richest, happiest countries are not part of any empire (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.) Empires were the mania of the colonizer and slave holder powers, the Nazis and the Bolsheviks, and more recently some EU politicians have been playing from this score as well. Those who want to take all power into their own hands. The empires never fulfilled what they promised, they fell apart because they became anti-democratic, oppressive, inhumane dictatorships. An empire is what the European people not in the least want. All empires, especially the European ones, drowned in tragedy without exception. I recommend Mr. Verhofstadt some historical readings about this. We say a definite NO to an European empire. The European peoples had and still have a very bad experience with empires. We want a strong European Union of strong, sovereign nation-states, but not an inhuman empire. What made Europe great and strong was that different nations contributed to the wealth of the continent with their own particular values. This should continue to be the case. Maybe Mr. Verhofstadt would rather see a big boring beehive and himself a beekeeper instead of a colorful European population, but Europeans certainly don't want that.
Spot on. Keating famously told one of his left-wing colleages "I'm not here to protest. I`m here to run the show". Power is how you change things. It's all about power.
Seeing the expression on both Stewart & Campbell when Verhofstadt tries to convince them that state veto is a bad thing actually gives very little hope that UK will reenter EU any time soon.
I hope the UK will rejoin. But there won't be any UK Bonus anymore. Every Member is the same there are no VIPs Also U need to teach Nigel Farage hot wo behave civilized 😂
We will NEVER rejoin E.U. All those who think otherwise should spend a weekend in UK and ask people randomly. This should cure them from wishful thinking.
@@lsd8497 Well, its not like we want to inject a huge sum off money into uk for getting it going again. But beeing outside of the new developing european Federation aint good for UK
@@lsd8497 Hmm thats sad for you, since EU now becomes interesting. Without veto but qualified Majority. Also EU President elected by the People. And an EU Army. Thats an European Federation and the majority in Parliament voted for it.
I have to admit that I listened to the online chatter about Alastair, describing him as some sort of pariah. I hadn't realized what an intelligent guy he is He's now one of my favourite commentators.
The description of how much the EU countries spend on military and the totally inefficient outcome is a very interesting and correct description. Where does all the money go ? Overprized national spending. I think a European approach could allow for a necessary restart. A good idea. Greetings from Germany.
I don't think the spending is that overprised; more likely it is the lack of resource pooling during defense contract assignments. If a single nation (e.g. US) has a big budget, it could issue an order for 500 identical tanks, leading to a unified support structure and everything that goes along with it (very simplified view). In the EU, every nation has its own defense budget and buys its own small contingent of tanks (if any), from different (local) defense contractors, leading to a mix of various vehicles with different support needs etc
Echoing previous comment. If the EU were to standardise its development and procurement of military hardware, it would save so much time & money as well as dramatically improve its military strength. Instead we waste resources on dozens of different types of tanks, aircraft, IFVs, ship & sub classes, missiles, assault rifles, body armour, nukes, and many, many more.
The Belgian military has been described as the world's most heavily armed pension plan, as that is where a lot of their expense go. Generally everything costs more in Europe so much less bang for your buck is delivered.
I think at one point (possibly still today) money into our military’s pension had to be taken into account, to attain our NATO obligation of 2% of GDP defence spending. That seems to me to be the problem of being a ‘wealthier’ country. Everything is so expensive (or perhaps unaffordable) domestically, we have to outsource absolutely everything. So perhaps like our default position on manufacturing / steel production etc, we should be paying all of our defence budget to China or India and they provide all of our defence. I’m sure they’d purport to give us a good deal.
So basically the reason everything costs more is not the main issue: the issue is that 27 nations make 27 separate orders and have very varied equipment (although that can be forgiven more). But if you order as a whole block, well…the price is obviously lower per unit.
It was really interesting to listen to him. But one thing I would be careful about - the vision. UK citizens had a vision of them being outside of EU and having it all good, shiny, unicorns and rainbows. This vision was based on false information. So it isn't about a vision only, but vision based on the facts and truth statements. And that is what we miss in today's politics.
I think his point was that in this era of post truth it’s important to have that vision rather than presenting facts and stats. It’s all up for contest as we saw in the EU debate. It was that wild brexit vision that won out and unfortunately the experts could not combat that with projections. I’m honestly not sure how I feel about that as I type but I get the premise and there is a lack of vision on the more liberal side.
@@simonclare100 don’t necessarily disagree with you. I said I was conflicted. One thing I do know is that truth mean little at this time. Politics is all feelings and little substance right now.
@@ocher8931 I agree with you, there are too many lies, almost impossible to get to any truth, I don't claim to know I just fear the worst, the people are being manipulated, history shows us that always ends badly
Rory Rory, Sunak took to the stage w/ Meloni to celebrate their anti-immigrant/ "great replacement" adjacent worldview. A bizarre optic for a son of S. Asian immigrants, but ignoring that aspect we have the reprehensible Rwanda policy, Braverman's persistently outrageous comments as Home Secretary (whose virulent anti-migrant rhetoric at the Home Office was the direct descendant of that of Patel and May before her), the targetting of "lefty" lawyers, not to mention the Windrush scandal. It all adds up to a party embracing nationalism, a degree of illiberalism and at times flirting with race/ethnic based flavours of nationalism. Whether Sunak himself would be accepted into the AfD is completely besides the point. This ain't Ken Clarke's Tories any more.
Anybody thinking the Tories don't look like the AFD should pop over to the continent and hear what people here commonly call the English Tory party, most commonly simply 'psychopaths
“A bizarre optic for a son of S. Asian immigrants.” Care to elaborate? One of the most important things for a politician is to be able to act against their own personal interest, for whatever they believe is the greater good. If Sunak was found to be deciding UK immigration policy based on whatever would make it easiest for more Sunak family members to emigrate to the UK from India, that would be wrong. It would arguably be a form of corruption. His responsibility is to try and design an immigration policy which is in the best interests of the 70 million current UK citizens, not his personal, familial or ethnic sub-group. In fact, the idea that the first duty of all non-white politicians is to be as ethnocentric as possible feels like a recipe for social entropy.
My late Italian friend Dr Piero P. said of Guy Verhofstadt: "a politician who can hold the Belgians together and run their country effectively is among the top political operators in Europe". Rory looked discomforted when Verhofstadt gave some home-truths about the direction of the current Conservative Party. Verhofstadt is right.
A man of conviction and deep political experience - a potent combination delivering sound suggestions for the future of Europe. Let’s start with proportional representation Kier and take British politics forward from there as compromise is essential to progress.
A Federal state in the EU would mean a superstate for ther SMALLer countries since they wont have the votes or the vetoes, the classical federal state wont work for Europe.
Part of the failure regarding Brexit is also the media bias against the EU underselling how much some areas were propped up by grants etc. And fighting that level of mis/disinformation is going to be so much harder in the decade of social media change since.
Yes I always felt that most of those projects flew under the radar. Once you noticed them, you realised how many little signs there were dotted around telling you where the funding came from for whatever you were using. Can't remember any in neon or with flashing lights. Governments can't blame "Brussels" for all our ills now though either, although I guess it's transitioned from fear of control to presumed dislike because we're not in the club.
@@jimb9063I always remember a project near me being done at the time of the vote. Big sign outside saying it was being funded by the local council, the lottery and a couple of big businesses. In the corner was a small sign saying the EU. You would therefore conclude that the EU was only putting a small amount of money in, in fact they had funded almost 70% !!!.
@@TrevorEden Yes that's a fair comment, nostalgia for a Golden Age that never existed is fairly common. Also true that greed and corruption are human conditions and won't be solved by any organisation. It's not about two opposites of terrible and perfect though, more about what's a better way and what's worse. Remains subjective, without a time machine you can't test these types of theories.
@@ogribiker8535 Would be interesting to compare coverage for ALL those EU funded projects to just ONE fake EU story in the British press like bendy bananas.
This former Belgium prime minister is a man absolutely consumed about the European politics, especially in the case of Ukrainian war. He advocates the independence of European Defence from USA, while habitually following the direction and the trap set by the USA without even knowing it. He knows nothing of or refuses to know the truth of the Ukrainian war. He should ask himself a simple question: by making Russia (or eventually together with the fast rising powerful China) the enemy of Europe, will Europe have a future ? He should understand that Europe is in decay and reason is that USA has the absolute power to exploit Europe in any way it wants and it has been doing so for decades. Ukrainian war is a trap designed and set by the USA for Europe to jump in so that USA can maximize the exploitation of Europe to the extreme. This former prime minister may be correct by saying Europe should be independent but is absolutely confused or ignorant as how to get this independence.
I really miss living in Vlanderen, the language, and the people. I worked in farming between my degrees and ended up picking up a boer uitspraak (farmers dialect). Belgum is one of the countries with the best balance between private and public involvement in the economy.
Superb yet again. Can understand both points concerning how accurate and harmful it might be comparing political parties. The danger of simplifying compared to not wanting to miss warning signs. There seems something similar happening today when traditional parties have to contend with populism to what happens to democracies contending with totalitarianism. Being held to different standards is not helpful to the more open reasonable position, and in order to survive there's a tendency and some have said an inevitability that unfortunately one will start to behave like the other, and not the way we'd prefer. Edit. Great point about people thinking that an election in a FPTP system would be a referendum. PR would be an improvement IMO, but I can imagine the absolute balls up that would happen before, during, and years after the transition. Computer says no.
It isn't much of a reckoning of Belgium's colonial past if you pretend it was no worse than everyone else's version of it. It was beyond the pale even then.
Yep the thing to remember, is the Belgium people didn't know much of what was happening at the time. As it was a private venture of their king.... It's not like the uk where we were so proud of it, till our people saw what it was like during the second world war and the public opinion switched.. the Belgium people thought it was appalling as soon as they found out and Leopold had to step down.... So feeling responsible is more new to them, more about the lasting legacy.
Also, as it was a private venture of Leopold, many traders, explorers, and soldiers of a multitude of other Western nations were involved in the Congo Free State, and it was enabled and supported by other European nations and the United States. So until the Belgian government inherited Congo from Leopold, it would be somewhat misleading to blame the mass murder on Belgium alone.
@@woodstock5nathanThe Belgian people thought it was "appalling"? Blatant lie. Wonder why you feel the need to justify an atrocity you clearly have scant knowledge about. There was little difference between "Belgian Congo" and "Congo Free State". Leopold II owned the Congo until his death. Between 1 to 15 million people were murdered and as many were permanently maimed through amputations mainly. Yet, the Belgians celebrate Leopold II with dehumanising imagery of Africans till today. The members of the public that flocked to zoos to see captive Africans on display, were they too innocent to ask questions or just too complicit and too dumb?
@@geoffpegler4506EU has to federalize to a US form of a state. 1 common foreign policy and integrated economy ...better relations with Russia. Is the US involvement in Europe really a good thing?
"no european country is making a deal with rawanda" which isn't true as "Denmark last year agreed with Rwanda to explore setting up a program in which asylum seekers arriving in Denmark could be transferred to the African country" - reuters
In 2015 the refugee crisis its not because of the EU structure that the EU didnt act, not solely because of that, but because the main EU politicians - INCLUDING Verhofstadt himself - denied the problem very vocally. First and foremost, can't solve a problem if you deny the problem in the first place.
Verhofstadt wants to sweep away people's legacy national affiliations in order to build his empire. Bringing in lots of "new Europeans" who lack that legacy affiliation could be politically useful.
A little food for thought maybe if the British Isles (so it may include irish republic, isle of man and other places) created a sort of version of the EU as a body which then had the countries devolved below it or even maybe regions with respect to england. With each having an amount of autonomy but collaboration on other levels. Could this work, would it solve some problems or create more problems?
We don't have the history of well defined distinct regions that a country like Belgium does. As for creating a version of the EU I think we're more likely to rejoin the real thing.
Guy's comment about saying there should be a good method for completely legal migration is needed. I did think however this does exist. It hasn't stopped the overflow via the boats. The issue isn't illegal migration in the uk which actually reflects a drop in the ocean (excuse the pun) numbers wise. The bigger issue is the legal migration system flooding the country currently. Be aware I get the need for migration, I do not however see how the country can manage this level of population increase.
Lol, the only 2 real empires this guy did not mention, the British and American. Projection, projection... The irony would not be complete if this guy did not have a non British accent. Thank you Sir!
Russia was financially set up, then they did 'that'! Definition of man - no hope. We need leaving to God, we will soon go extinct, man made ELE event - extinction Level event...
@@hightide4782 It's not disreputable, it's just practical. For decades Europe has been under the misconception that economic cooperation with Russia would guarantee peace with Russia, like how it worked with Germany and Eastern Europe, and so Europe just didn't know it needed it's own big military capacity until a few years ago when that misconception was shattered. It takes more than just a couple of years to gear up an entire continent's military industrial complex to be on the same level as a country like the US, so when we're suddenly in a crisis we aren't ready for *and* are best friends with the biggest military power on Earth, why *wouldn't* we call for help? The Russia-Ukraine war- as well as the US's worrying unreliability as an ally thanks to people like Trump and DeSantis and Ramaswamy- has been the wakeup call that Europe needs to be able to defend it's own backyard independently, it's just gonna take time to build up the ability.
Re Rwanda.Guy says that there are no European countries making a deal with Rwanda. In fact the racist social democrat government of Denmark is trying to do just that. "It remains the government's goal to relocate asylum processing to a partner country in collaboration with the EU," That partner country is Rwanda. They are yet to succeed, but it is their intention.
I agree with everything he says. But he, like the rest if the liberal establishment of Europe, must realize that mass migration to Europe is a real problem for common Europeans, not far right ones, but centrist ones and moderates. Calling policies against migration far right is a very big mishandling of the term and labels the majority of Europeans far right, which will actually make them think "This is a bit of a deal breaker for me so maybe I am far right, now I will vote for AfD or UKIP who address this issue" The centrist parties in Europe must address people's worries and not push them to vote for actual far right parties.
How much sense does Guy make. Stronger together, the EU with the UK can go toe to toe with US, China, Russia with better trained troops and tactics. That’s proven. Why are people scared of this. “We lose our country”. Alone we fall, together we stand. Even in WW2 Churchill said that if our Island nation falls then our Empire will keep fighting. People forget that Britain wasn’t alone after the fall of Europe. Britain was never alone no matter what some people what u to think she was.
So if the EU had voted to fight in Iraq Germany and France should have fought? Vice versa would the UK and Poland have stayed at home? Of course a comman army means giving up sovereignity.
Trouble is even when EU was united it was not as cohesive as it needed to be. It often failed to protect and nurture its unicorns from take overs by China and US. Who often took over its leading businesses and stole intellectual property then closed business. Then internal market businesses bought out internal competitors and destroyed the businesses for internal gain. Mutual strengthening against the world is still needed.
This man scares me. His country might desperately need to merge with others, we don't. What he doesn't say is who would control this unified Europe and how they would get there and more importantly how we get rid of them?
Yes, Zelensky is such a heroic figure!? Elected on a platform of peace with Russia and peace within Ukraine, he radiply abandoned his promises. Then he allowed himself to be used by the US and the UK against Russia in withdrawing from the peace negotiations in Istanbul in March April 2022. The result - the death of 500,000 of his people, the exodus of 10 million, the destruction of half of the country, the turning of Ukraine into a dependent of EU and US money. What a record... Meanwhile, this Belgian politician doubles down on the need to further militarise Europe while presiding over an EU that sludes further and further into economic decline and poverty.
Russia heard his peace platform and saw it as weakness. How can Zelensky deliver peace when Ukraine has been invaded? Or are you talking about the Russian definition of peace, the one that says give up some of your territory and the rest can live under nominal independence as long as you allow Russia to dictate you path for you.
I had to switch off at the discussion of the Rwanda genocide. You are complaining that lessons weren't learnt and yet you are actively supporting another genocide currently going on in the middle East.
Oh Rory! Once again taking personal offence at robust language against your fellow Tories, many of whom you decry as well. Angela Rayner’s angry outburst against people who were supporting the hypocrisy of so many Tories, you took as a personal insult, even though you too found that hypocrisy unacceptable. Your education and background has give you the questionable advantage of never feeling the need to express your anger in colourful even crude language. But don’t write off those who actually can be more effective in expressing anger than accepting dire actions in measured tones.
Not listening to the public, but rather pushing forward with your own quest for power, to enable a future you think is best. Interesting! Sounds a lot like Dictatorship
Great to hear about passion and vision from a politician - I so agree that it is the job of the politician to give the people hope. Keir Starmer is a bit of a washout on that front. Why doesn't he wake up and say every morning, 'what can I give hope about today?' I like this Guy guy. , haha. I'm not sure where he stands as clearly he's changed his ideas. But that's good. I don't like that way Rory and Alistair never connect or respond to what's been said. Rory just looks sceptical, as though he doesn't like the cut of his jib.
I actually agree with this and I’m a former Brexit supporter 😅. I think a big problem is that the EU wasn’t argued strongly for in a POSITIVE way before the referendum. The idea of a strong “Empire Europe” is actually very cool and could appeal to right-wingers, but the arguments made by remainers were lame, wet, and wishy-washy, while Brexiteers painted a positive and hopeful vision of the future.
Good man Rory. Well done. It needed to be mentioned. Not a good look fir European empire when he resorted to low class name calling. Need a new European project. UK should start it.
when are politicians going to realize that europe can't take everyone in need forever. it's one thing to help ukranians,or even people who helped our militaries in afghanistan,etc.but to take millions of uneducated,with no money[unless to pay the people traffickers] from cultures and religions alien to ours,it will change the way we live in ways that don't benefit no one. it's easy for politicians who live in gated houses away from the mess they created to think otherwise.
So. Why are you not leading the masses then? Simple question. You are not unique. Your country is not unique. Your problems, fears and needs are not unique. Have you ever thought about this. The UK is having an absolute influx of immigrants due to a failing border system. Because UKs border used to be Greece and now it is Dover. No country in the world can stop migration. Unless you are Russia because who wants to go there. But the thing is it is a global issue and the EU as a whole can do way more about it then individual countries ( see UK).
@@ai-d2121 of course you can stop illegal migration, the Australians stopped it. People come from France and are put in hotels, if instead they put them in prison. Or just put the navy on the channel. Rich countries like Japan or South Korea, don't have this problem, because they make sure no one gets in illegally.
@@alexandrecordeiro4957 I can clearly not beat you on arguments. I will never be able to lower melyself to your level and beat you at stupidity because you trained all your life for it. Just one question. Simple one. WHY is it not solved?
@@ai-d2121 ask yourself why so many people are against illegal migration? you say i'm stupid,go to any western prison and see the percentage of non europeans arrested,see what crimes they commited. give you another example, do you know how black south africans treat other blacks who migrated from other african countries? as for why it is not sorted, people will vote for someone like in holland,or god forbid worse. rich middle east countries take millions of migrants,both educated or for menial jobs,but after the work ends they all go home. try to go to a muslim country with a bible and preach about christ message,see what happens,but they come here and abuse our laws and freedoms in everyway.
I had the feeling Rory still wasn't over the fact Guy called his friend some name some long time ago :)
To his credit Rory is still trying to be the gentleman politician in a political environment conspicuously lacking gentlemen.
If Guy was “calling wanker a wanker”, that was because the gentleman was truly a wanker! And also because Guy was no longer expecting any positive outcome from the Brexit negotiation.
It is a foreseeable outcome of Brexit (but not foreseen by all the Brits) that a forceful exit of Britain from the EU liberates people in the other EU countries to say freely what they think, without the niceties of language that a common membership entails.
A smart man with common sense and pragmatic answers to modern problems.
Not much use in this era
😂😂😂😂😂
As a Belgian resident, I have to add: Guy's party is dying, and he's not particularly popular (in Flanders at least). He touches on one of the things that a lot of people don't like: being a career politician. His party (Open VLD) is fairly out of touch with the general populace - and I think what he was saying only goes to confirm that. He talks about having passion: but the liberal party has been in government for decades and is full of individuals that are completely out of touch with the daily life of common people (hence their party being decimated in recent polling). It's also important to mention that the two highest polling parties in Flanders are seperatist movements - so we'll see in the next 5 years whether the federal system can survive here.
Additionally, there is actually a federal party in Belgium - the Worker's Party. I can imagine reading the name gives the impression that they're a bunch of crazy communists - but they're a serious opposition party, and at this moment polling higherthan Guy's party. There's a history in Belgium of omitting certain parties, so I'm sure Guy failed to mention this on purpose.
He also really contradicts himself: proselytising on compromise, but then simultaneously saying that politics isn't about pragmatism. It's especially strange coming from someone who has basically been in charge of the country for 10 years to talk about passion - when the government in Belgium is seen as especially techoncratic and bland.
However, it has to be said that Belgium really is an amazing country - not necessarily culturally or on the world stage - but for two important reasons: firstly, as Guy mentioned, this art of compromise. Where else will you find 'rainbow' coallitions (the current artfully named 'the Vivaldi coallition) running the country to a rather succesful degree (discounting the few years when we couldn't form a federal government). I think that a lot of the success of Belgium has to do with this, rather than any specific 'leadership' on the prime minister's part. The second point is how Belgium has been able to build up amazingly strong social systems. Education is cheap (free for those that need it), healthcare is cheap and most people seem to be able to survive with what they earn here.
Belgian politics is really complicated, but I really appreciate Rory and Alistair having him on. Honestly, this is probably one of the more honest conversations that I've seen with a senior Belgian politician. I hope you guys continue to expand and invite more European politicians on. To me it confirmed a lot of my opinions on him ("I do it for power, to change society" + "I was a libertarian" + "I've only ever been a politician" is a sad recipe), but it also gave me more of an understanding as to what kind of person he is - which is important in politics. Keep up the good work!
This is the most sensible comment I've seen on this video.
The man is an idealogue, so the views of the population/electorate is unimportant unless that view coincides with his ideology, a truly clever and dangerous man just like the ones from the 1930's
My sentiments exactly. I agree with your view of the man.
He is so full of contradictions in his apparent expressions in rhetorical words, and his own ideology on what politicians role ought to be. Perhaps a pragmatic-minded person makes a better politician than an emotionally charged politician who thinks like the Man of Lemancha dealing with his windmills.
OK, am Belgian also but basically people here do care very little about our own antics. What did you think about what he thinks about systemic threat on our societies from outside UE ?
@@pierrevanhalteren5733 I agree that Europe needs to integratie further. I think the eu might need to become more federal for that - but having a select group of 15 people doing that... I'm feel like that might not be wise when advocated for by someone whose party seems to love large companies doing whatever they want
This interview was so refreshing seeing everything I stand for & wish for laid out so clearly, if only we were back in Europe to participate in everything! Togetherness is Strength!
The problem with it is the countries aren't together, they have very different needs and capabilities,it is a utopia that takes no account of human nature, in the same way communism didn't, an unworkable dream that ignores the negatives of their dream
We’ll be back
@@simonclare100 Only Britain isn't, the other 27 seem to be happy with it as since we left I don't think any other country has even held a referendum since ours let alone voted to leave.
@@alexfrye6 🤣🤣🤣 are you in denial or just naive, massive problems with EU cohesion already, it's just a matter of time before their incompetence and dishonesty backfires on them, with or without the UK, not a good idea to jump back on a sinking ship
@@alexfrye6 fear, if you're claiming all those countries are happy with the EU direction you need to take a closer more honest look, I love Europe but I see where the EU is trying to take it and I don't want to be controlled by them whichever country I live in, my view would be the same whatever nationality I was.
my family is mixed race and haven't always lived in Britain but the EU horrifies me, they are not what they claim to be and freedom and equality is not what they'll give you, they'll give you total control from the centre with no decent allowed , they just haven't achieved it yet
Great discussion. Also shows that Rory is still too close to the Tory party to see quite how bad it has become.
I agree with that.
Also a little bit too earnest for his own good sometimes. Came across a bit naive here at times, like a young person desperately trying to pull magic insights and lessons from an old master who is basically telling him there is no hidden secret
I think Rory wants to save the Conservative party. Return it to the old days, which is not a very smart thing, since the "old days" is what lead to the current state of affairs.
I definitely prefer Rory's style, though - he acted as a catalyst for Guy. Alistair, meanwhile, is full of vacuous chit-chat.
I always have had a lot of time for Guy V and it was great to listen to him in full flow.
Wow! Verhofstadt is such an interesting and clever statesman. Thank you for this interview
If you're deranged
😂Alastair on fire with someone on his side of politics ganging up on Rory is so funny
I like very much Guy Verhofstadt's passion and honesty and how he sees the reality that it is so important to have a strong Europe in the form of the EU against the other super powers in the world we live in today.
Also his honesty that things like the structure of defense in Europe should be far more streamlined and admitting that it is not operating well and there is so much money spend on it with little result.If you can see the things that do not work well in the EU then you can change that and that is important to see that and admit that. Also the importance of being able to work together and you can only work together if you can compromise which I find in the UK hard to find.The parties are always fighting with each other but instead you need to find coming ground and working together to get solutions and the voting system in Britain's First past the Vote is encouraging this terrible destructive behavior towards each other.
It is also an unfair system because you ending up with a lot of voters who's vote go to an other party they have not voted for.The bad behavior is also such a bad example for people to look at. It makes you feel angry and not feeling you want to be part of that. People need hope and need to be encouraged to go forward in live.So I found him very inspiring to listen too. 👍It was also an excellent podcast 👍
Brilliant. We need more like him in our system. Bravo Guy.
Corbyn has the same grasp and passion, but he's been dumped. The Brits as a whole can't stand it. It makes me so sad
Oh Rory, the same Rosendall that has was arrested for suspicion of rape? The same Rosendall that was bailed out by the met several times? The one that didn’t go to parliment for a year?
Shall I go on? Seems like he was calling a spade a spade mate. I normally listen with respect to you Rory, but you are clearly getting a bit butt hurt by the man, on bahalf of your ‘team’.
I agree with you, but Rory has his biases and Alistair has his, regardless of these together make a pretty good balance.
If Guy called Andrew Rosindell a wanker, then you would have to say the man is a good judge of character.
I think the point Rory was making was in what way did calling him a w@nker advance his cause. Guy did make lots of inflammatory statements during that time that will have failed to get a single person to change their views which is just poor politics. No one has ever been won round by insults.
Great interview - used to go to Belgium a lot on business and was interesting attending meetings in French and Dutch - all good experiences and great beer and bars too! Hope we are a part of the EU again one day soon... As an Englishman who speaks French (thanks to Erasmus and my earlier travels) it was amazing to see people able and willing to switch between languages without issue in order to get things done
Great interview - a politician with passion for making a difference!
Great interview. Guy comes across as a passionate and well meaning politician. Admittedly, he did seem to go out of his way to wind-up many Brits during the Brexit negotiations and I remember comparing and contrasting his style with, say, that of Donald Tusk at the time. There was also that fly-on-the wall Brexit documentary that gave an insight into the behind the scenes discussions and tactics - for the life of me I can't remember the name - probably a BBC production; 'Brexit Behind Closed Doors'?
I'm Dutch, in UK since John Major 1991. Really enjoyed this convo with Mr Verhofstadt. The question about EU defence expenditure - what is it being spent on? Also, Rory, your party has gone.
Each country with it's own systems, it's own version of a capability. Loads are spent in each country to a unique version of a given capability, even if it is deeply inferior to something that Russia or China has... Just a lot of wast...
Ditto.
I agree 👍
Apart from the varied systems we buy, the simple economics of joint purchasing is also a thing. If your local grocery store buys items it pays more than if a whole chain of stores pools their resources to buy larger quantities and so on.
Wow! That was a very interesting discussion and an A-class interview. As good as it gets in European politics (very much including the UK).
As good as it gets? Really? Endless liberal hand-wringing?
A great insight from a leader that was considered controversial by some during his tenure - certainly here in Britain. I do hope that some of the more optimistic predictions will be realised; namely that a) the EU becomes a functioning Federal government that is effective, impactful, better value for money and quicker to respond and, more importantly, b) that the whole of the UK has a much, much closer relationship with the EU. Personally, I would prefer us to be a full member state once more; however, the increasingly polarised views on this point means it unlikely we will move towards anything like this in my lifetime - and we will be the poorer for it.
Anglo saxon empire is falling and anglo saxons can not tolerate this.😂😂😂
An interesting and compelling opinion, not entirely without merit. However, I cannot see how the UK can be the root-cause for the lurch to the right for a number of member states - Italy, Austria and the Netherlands among that number - and the resultant machinations that are resulting from that change. @progresstothestars
The very nature of the concept of 'empire' means that they will come and go - or be replaced by other regimes -as they become unstable through a number of factors. However, I haven't heard of the Anglo-Saxon Empire concept /perception before, would you care to expand upon your point? @@imtiazakand3174
@progresstothestars I can't claim, for one moment, to be fully aware of that taking place in Eastern and Southern Europe. What I can say is that the UK may be perceived as a roaring lion on the world stage with a Rasputin-esq spell over the US through the 'Special Relationship'. The truth is, the UK is more often regarded as isolated, irrelevant and weak in world politics - more akin to a house dog, whining and yapping to be let out by its master!! As for the US, the term referred only came to contemporary prominence by W S Churchill as he tried to shame the US into WWII...and, in fact, is much nearer the reverse in many eyes. I do agree, however, that we are all being told what to do by the 'know-alls'...when they appear to know little about the life of the average citizen.
Dank U wel, meneer Verhofstad. And thanks Alistair and Rory for hosting this. Guy checks all the boxes of my own convictions about the EU and Europe. We definitely need more politicians of his ability around in the EU.
Guy Verhofsdat is so articulate and insightful 👏
What's really dangerous is pretending that the tories aren't as right wing as they are, what's really dangerous is defending their behaviour and pretending it isn't what it is.
They are not that right wing though.
It's perfectly fine to dislike them. But people such as you really try and do this attack angle of "first we call them far right, and then once they have that label we can ignore them".
When in reality, they are just a bit right. Look at the globe, look at the tories.
Rory is in denial, unfortunately
Rory's skin seemed very thin here, and it just goes to show how fragile the tory ego is. Shouting down the idea of the torys being closer to afd than the old tory party... they are allied to them in the "european conservatives group"
for me it shows that even the ones who claim to be 'proper' tories are just deluding themselves. Rory has become the extreme of the party and the look on his face, and his demeanour in general, while trying to defend what is basically the NF light says it all@@jjtinkler97
@@U5mR "Basically the NF"
It's that kind of thing that he was pointing out isn't particularly useful.
IMO, there's some horrible ideas floating about in the Conservatives at the moment, and from my particular perspective I've never thought they were the least worst option in any election.
I've become more concerned with the standards that people hold to or don't, rather than just the team they're on though these days. I think that it's a drop in standards generally which cultivates extremes and lets them flourish.
Rory’s friendly centrist mask slips when people dare shine a light on his beloved party
Yes I did found Rory's defending of his colleges odd.He must know by now how uncompromising British politicians are and that counts also for the Labour party. They see it as a weakness to compromise and Verhofstad sees it as a strengt.
Defensive over that dubious character Andrew Rosindell
Rory. You may not like the comparison to the AFD and say there politics are not normalized. I think the argument is that the conservative party are adopting more extreme right wing positions which are normalizing the AFD. Surely if Rory can use the AFD as a demonstrative example. The politics are somewhat already normalized if all three of you and your audience understand what Guy is referring to,
A very interesting interview. Unfortunately it's reinforced my view that UK politicians will never talk to the UK public as adults, or try to engage in a proper debate about the future. The public just aren't capable or willing to devote the time to understand. That's why three word slogans work.
I agree. I felt that our politics is hollow, our politicians hollow men . . .the women have more substance but are affected by the general sexism.
Isn't it all politics lacking debate? Isn't this why we all like this podcast - because views are challenged enough so that listeners understand them better.
On one hand, I like share the comment's view that Guy's strong in that he believes politicians should lead. But without the listening that he seems to show distain for, you'd never right the wrongs, because there's no feedback loop.
On the comment that there's no debate on direction of the UK, that was also the problem with EU too. There is a key block of EU politicians that want centralisation (EU military, reducing the EU commission to a concentration of 16 power holders), and yet you have voters who are fed up that the EU doesn't know who it is defending (Hungary?) and who don't feel represented neither by mainstream politics, nor engaged, including not knowing who their supposed EU parliament representative is.
How could the debate on UK's vision of its place in EU be clear when the EU has the same existential and directional questions?
The belief the politicians should lead and be strong in their beliefs ? Some examples - Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and all other dictators, another theory that fails in reality
@@simonclare100 You miss the point. He is saying that politicians should stay true to their vision, put it before the public, and allow the public to decide if they want to buy into it or not. All the people you listed did not allow alternate visions to be considered and chosen by the public.
@@radman8321 what makes you think the EU is allowing a different viewpoint to run ?, their intention is to create a superstate, they have claimed as much, they aren't allowing the public to chose, for eg ' the nation state' they are doing everything possible to make that harder by limiting choice and condemning countries who don't fall into line, they cannot tolerate anything that doesn't fit their ideology, that's not democratic, I haven't missed the point at all, attempting to ban the right of vito is actively removing an alternative vision, the only 'choice' is the one the EU approves of.
The richest, happiest countries are not part of any empire (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.) Empires were the mania of the colonizer and slave holder powers, the Nazis and the Bolsheviks, and more recently some EU politicians have been playing from this score as well. Those who want to take all power into their own hands. The empires never fulfilled what they promised, they fell apart because they became anti-democratic, oppressive, inhumane dictatorships.
An empire is what the European people not in the least want. All empires, especially the European ones, drowned in tragedy without exception. I recommend Mr. Verhofstadt some historical readings about this. We say a definite NO to an European empire. The European peoples had and still have a very bad experience with empires. We want a strong European Union of strong, sovereign nation-states, but not an inhuman empire.
What made Europe great and strong was that different nations contributed to the wealth of the continent with their own particular values. This should continue to be the case. Maybe Mr. Verhofstadt would rather see a big boring beehive and himself a beekeeper instead of a colorful European population, but Europeans certainly don't want that.
Really glad I've seen this gives me hope for the future
Rory doesn't really understand, I always admired him too.
This was excellent. He is so much more engaging than any UK politician
So much of what was said rang true for me in this one, great interview 👏
What an awesome interview, danku vel
As always great interview and great show..Thank you..
Spot on. Keating famously told one of his left-wing colleages "I'm not here to protest. I`m here to run the show". Power is how you change things. It's all about power.
Power- Hitler, Mao, Stalin, that worked well didn't it, all on the left all claiming the collective mindset
Seeing the expression on both Stewart & Campbell when Verhofstadt tries to convince them that state veto is a bad thing actually gives very little hope that UK will reenter EU any time soon.
China his been held down by a leader who hates their freedom.
I hope the UK will rejoin. But there won't be any UK Bonus anymore.
Every Member is the same there are no VIPs
Also U need to teach Nigel Farage hot wo behave civilized 😂
We will NEVER rejoin E.U. All those who think otherwise should spend a weekend in UK and ask people randomly. This should cure them from wishful thinking.
@@lsd8497 Well, its not like we want to inject a huge sum off money into uk for getting it going again.
But beeing outside of the new developing european Federation aint good for UK
@@lsd8497 Hmm thats sad for you, since EU now becomes interesting.
Without veto but qualified Majority.
Also EU President elected by the People.
And an EU Army.
Thats an European Federation and the majority in Parliament voted for it.
As usual a fascinating and enlightening interview.
I have to admit that I listened to the online chatter about Alastair, describing him as some sort of pariah. I hadn't realized what an intelligent guy he is He's now one of my favourite commentators.
What a brilliant interview, thankyou both for bringing it to us❤
Wonderful interview - what an energetic and forceful person is Guy.
The description of how much the EU countries spend on military and the totally inefficient outcome is a very interesting and correct description. Where does all the money go ? Overprized national spending. I think a European approach could allow for a necessary restart. A good idea. Greetings from Germany.
I don't think the spending is that overprised; more likely it is the lack of resource pooling during defense contract assignments. If a single nation (e.g. US) has a big budget, it could issue an order for 500 identical tanks, leading to a unified support structure and everything that goes along with it (very simplified view). In the EU, every nation has its own defense budget and buys its own small contingent of tanks (if any), from different (local) defense contractors, leading to a mix of various vehicles with different support needs etc
Echoing previous comment.
If the EU were to standardise its development and procurement of military hardware, it would save so much time & money as well as dramatically improve its military strength.
Instead we waste resources on dozens of different types of tanks, aircraft, IFVs, ship & sub classes, missiles, assault rifles, body armour, nukes, and many, many more.
All the west got together for evil reasons. You will never have success. You are done. You are bad bad by nature.
A fabulous interview, such an interesting man, and probing but respectful questions posed to your guest.
I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas. !
The Belgian military has been described as the world's most heavily armed pension plan, as that is where a lot of their expense go. Generally everything costs more in Europe so much less bang for your buck is delivered.
"Bang for you buck" in a sentence about an expensive military ... Your eloquence and wit is second only to oscar wilde
I think at one point (possibly still today) money into our military’s pension had to be taken into account, to attain our NATO obligation of 2% of GDP defence spending. That seems to me to be the problem of being a ‘wealthier’ country. Everything is so expensive (or perhaps unaffordable) domestically, we have to outsource absolutely everything.
So perhaps like our default position on manufacturing / steel production etc, we should be paying all of our defence budget to China or India and they provide all of our defence. I’m sure they’d purport to give us a good deal.
So basically the reason everything costs more is not the main issue: the issue is that 27 nations make 27 separate orders and have very varied equipment (although that can be forgiven more). But if you order as a whole block, well…the price is obviously lower per unit.
This man left Belgium financially ruined once he left office as PM… he has lost all credibility in Belgium so no thanks
Kudos to this Guy.
It was really interesting to listen to him. But one thing I would be careful about - the vision. UK citizens had a vision of them being outside of EU and having it all good, shiny, unicorns and rainbows.
This vision was based on false information. So it isn't about a vision only, but vision based on the facts and truth statements. And that is what we miss in today's politics.
You've just described the socialist dream
I think his point was that in this era of post truth it’s important to have that vision rather than presenting facts and stats. It’s all up for contest as we saw in the EU debate.
It was that wild brexit vision that won out and unfortunately the experts could not combat that with projections.
I’m honestly not sure how I feel about that as I type but I get the premise and there is a lack of vision on the more liberal side.
@@ocher8931 all dictators had a vision, pretty obvious how these visions turn out, visions don't often accept their downsides until it's too late
@@simonclare100 don’t necessarily disagree with you. I said I was conflicted. One thing I do know is that truth mean little at this time. Politics is all feelings and little substance right now.
@@ocher8931 I agree with you, there are too many lies, almost impossible to get to any truth, I don't claim to know I just fear the worst, the people are being manipulated, history shows us that always ends badly
Rory Rory, Sunak took to the stage w/ Meloni to celebrate their anti-immigrant/ "great replacement" adjacent worldview. A bizarre optic for a son of S. Asian immigrants, but ignoring that aspect we have the reprehensible Rwanda policy, Braverman's persistently outrageous comments as Home Secretary (whose virulent anti-migrant rhetoric at the Home Office was the direct descendant of that of Patel and May before her), the targetting of "lefty" lawyers, not to mention the Windrush scandal. It all adds up to a party embracing nationalism, a degree of illiberalism and at times flirting with race/ethnic based flavours of nationalism. Whether Sunak himself would be accepted into the AfD is completely besides the point. This ain't Ken Clarke's Tories any more.
Anybody thinking the Tories don't look like the AFD should pop over to the continent and hear what people here commonly call the English Tory party, most commonly simply 'psychopaths
So you believe a country can take in as many people as want to come from anywhere ? Very naive
@@simonclare100 what are you talking about? Reread my post. I said no such thing!
“A bizarre optic for a son of S. Asian immigrants.” Care to elaborate? One of the most important things for a politician is to be able to act against their own personal interest, for whatever they believe is the greater good. If Sunak was found to be deciding UK immigration policy based on whatever would make it easiest for more Sunak family members to emigrate to the UK from India, that would be wrong. It would arguably be a form of corruption. His responsibility is to try and design an immigration policy which is in the best interests of the 70 million current UK citizens, not his personal, familial or ethnic sub-group. In fact, the idea that the first duty of all non-white politicians is to be as ethnocentric as possible feels like a recipe for social entropy.
@@phyllisbennett5414 I was replying to cybersurf5, what are you talking about ?
My late Italian friend Dr Piero P. said of Guy Verhofstadt: "a politician who can hold the Belgians together and run their country effectively is among the top political operators in Europe". Rory looked discomforted when Verhofstadt gave some home-truths about the direction of the current Conservative Party. Verhofstadt is right.
Never forget, no compulsory ID or domestic registration in the UK.....
Err, haven't you forgotten what you're going to need to produce to vote: it may not be an ID card but it will have the same effect
Do you really think that is what it takes to be free? If you do, you really have no idea.
Very smart man with vision.❤
That flew by. Brilliant.
A man of conviction and deep political experience - a potent combination delivering sound suggestions for the future of Europe. Let’s start with proportional representation Kier and take British politics forward from there as compromise is essential to progress.
A Federal state in the EU would mean a superstate for ther SMALLer countries since they wont have the votes or the vetoes, the classical federal state wont work for Europe.
Part of the failure regarding Brexit is also the media bias against the EU underselling how much some areas were propped up by grants etc. And fighting that level of mis/disinformation is going to be so much harder in the decade of social media change since.
Yes I always felt that most of those projects flew under the radar. Once you noticed them, you realised how many little signs there were dotted around telling you where the funding came from for whatever you were using. Can't remember any in neon or with flashing lights.
Governments can't blame "Brussels" for all our ills now though either, although I guess it's transitioned from fear of control to presumed dislike because we're not in the club.
We all look to a past that never was , but the greed and corrupt like division inside and out of Europe,
@@jimb9063I always remember a project near me being done at the time of the vote. Big sign outside saying it was being funded by the local council, the lottery and a couple of big businesses. In the corner was a small sign saying the EU. You would therefore conclude that the EU was only putting a small amount of money in, in fact they had funded almost 70% !!!.
@@TrevorEden Yes that's a fair comment, nostalgia for a Golden Age that never existed is fairly common.
Also true that greed and corruption are human conditions and won't be solved by any organisation.
It's not about two opposites of terrible and perfect though, more about what's a better way and what's worse.
Remains subjective, without a time machine you can't test these types of theories.
@@ogribiker8535 Would be interesting to compare coverage for ALL those EU funded projects to just ONE fake EU story in the British press like bendy bananas.
Great chat lads.
This former Belgium prime minister is a man absolutely consumed about the European politics, especially in the case of Ukrainian war. He advocates the independence of European Defence from USA, while habitually following the direction and the trap set by the USA without even knowing it. He knows nothing of or refuses to know the truth of the Ukrainian war. He should ask himself a simple question: by making Russia (or eventually together with the fast rising powerful China) the enemy of Europe, will Europe have a future ? He should understand that Europe is in decay and reason is that USA has the absolute power to exploit Europe in any way it wants and it has been doing so for decades. Ukrainian war is a trap designed and set by the USA for Europe to jump in so that USA can maximize the exploitation of Europe to the extreme. This former prime minister may be correct by saying Europe should be independent but is absolutely confused or ignorant as how to get this independence.
I really miss living in Vlanderen, the language, and the people. I worked in farming between my degrees and ended up picking up a boer uitspraak (farmers dialect). Belgum is one of the countries with the best balance between private and public involvement in the economy.
True, very underrated country. The Flemish Franks and Celtic Belgae diaspora is huge and often overlooked.
Belg die in Engeland woond since 1992. All die stomme Brexit dinges meegemaakt hier. Vroeger trots om in Engeland te wonen, nu niet zo zeker
Superb yet again.
Can understand both points concerning how accurate and harmful it might be comparing political parties. The danger of simplifying compared to not wanting to miss warning signs.
There seems something similar happening today when traditional parties have to contend with populism to what happens to democracies contending with totalitarianism.
Being held to different standards is not helpful to the more open reasonable position, and in order to survive there's a tendency and some have said an inevitability that unfortunately one will start to behave like the other, and not the way we'd prefer.
Edit.
Great point about people thinking that an election in a FPTP system would be a referendum.
PR would be an improvement IMO, but I can imagine the absolute balls up that would happen before, during, and years after the transition. Computer says no.
Disappointed. Rory saying the tories are not extreme right. He seems so measured and moderate normally.
They aren't. They are criminal, but not nationalists
They are arch nationalists. I'm British and sick of them proclaiming British exceptionalism
If they were nationalist they wouldn't be letting in 1.2 million migrants a year.
It isn't much of a reckoning of Belgium's colonial past if you pretend it was no worse than everyone else's version of it. It was beyond the pale even then.
Yep the thing to remember, is the Belgium people didn't know much of what was happening at the time. As it was a private venture of their king.... It's not like the uk where we were so proud of it, till our people saw what it was like during the second world war and the public opinion switched.. the Belgium people thought it was appalling as soon as they found out and Leopold had to step down.... So feeling responsible is more new to them, more about the lasting legacy.
Also, as it was a private venture of Leopold, many traders, explorers, and soldiers of a multitude of other Western nations were involved in the Congo Free State, and it was enabled and supported by other European nations and the United States. So until the Belgian government inherited Congo from Leopold, it would be somewhat misleading to blame the mass murder on Belgium alone.
@@woodstock5nathanThe Belgian people thought it was "appalling"? Blatant lie. Wonder why you feel the need to justify an atrocity you clearly have scant knowledge about. There was little difference between "Belgian Congo" and "Congo Free State". Leopold II owned the Congo until his death. Between 1 to 15 million people were murdered and as many were permanently maimed through amputations mainly. Yet, the Belgians celebrate Leopold II with dehumanising imagery of Africans till today. The members of the public that flocked to zoos to see captive Africans on display, were they too innocent to ask questions or just too complicit and too dumb?
Love the ECHO echo echo....
Alastair sounds he is in his downstairs toilet by his front door.
What a very interesting interview. Very enlightening
Peace, freedom, and strength through unity and allies!
He called one of Rory's colleagues a wanker? Call me shallow but I like him already. 😅
Yep... it's the only way to go, and if you want to fix euro politics you can only do it from inside the system.
What is it that you think needs fixing?
@@geoffpegler4506EU has to federalize to a US form of a state. 1 common foreign policy and integrated economy ...better relations with Russia. Is the US involvement in Europe really a good thing?
Thank god for Rory....
"no european country is making a deal with rawanda" which isn't true as "Denmark last year agreed with Rwanda to explore setting up a program in which asylum seekers arriving in Denmark could be transferred to the African country" - reuters
In 2015 the refugee crisis its not because of the EU structure that the EU didnt act, not solely because of that, but because the main EU politicians - INCLUDING Verhofstadt himself - denied the problem very vocally. First and foremost, can't solve a problem if you deny the problem in the first place.
Verhofstadt wants to sweep away people's legacy national affiliations in order to build his empire. Bringing in lots of "new Europeans" who lack that legacy affiliation could be politically useful.
A little food for thought maybe if the British Isles (so it may include irish republic, isle of man and other places) created a sort of version of the EU as a body which then had the countries devolved below it or even maybe regions with respect to england. With each having an amount of autonomy but collaboration on other levels. Could this work, would it solve some problems or create more problems?
We don't have the history of well defined distinct regions that a country like Belgium does. As for creating a version of the EU I think we're more likely to rejoin the real thing.
😢Excellent discussion 😤❤
Guy's comment about saying there should be a good method for completely legal migration is needed. I did think however this does exist. It hasn't stopped the overflow via the boats. The issue isn't illegal migration in the uk which actually reflects a drop in the ocean (excuse the pun) numbers wise. The bigger issue is the legal migration system flooding the country currently. Be aware I get the need for migration, I do not however see how the country can manage this level of population increase.
Lol, the only 2 real empires this guy did not mention, the British and American. Projection, projection...
The irony would not be complete if this guy did not have a non British accent. Thank you Sir!
And there is no American empire! Only the far left speak of the "American empire" .
Just look at Ukraine, the American motivation to support them is gone. Only Europe can defend Europe.
Russia was financially set up, then they did 'that'! Definition of man - no hope. We need leaving to God, we will soon go extinct, man made ELE event - extinction Level event...
@@hightide4782 The EU wants to. But Hungary is a roadblock to timely European participation.
@@hightide4782 It's not disreputable, it's just practical. For decades Europe has been under the misconception that economic cooperation with Russia would guarantee peace with Russia, like how it worked with Germany and Eastern Europe, and so Europe just didn't know it needed it's own big military capacity until a few years ago when that misconception was shattered.
It takes more than just a couple of years to gear up an entire continent's military industrial complex to be on the same level as a country like the US, so when we're suddenly in a crisis we aren't ready for *and* are best friends with the biggest military power on Earth, why *wouldn't* we call for help?
The Russia-Ukraine war- as well as the US's worrying unreliability as an ally thanks to people like Trump and DeSantis and Ramaswamy- has been the wakeup call that Europe needs to be able to defend it's own backyard independently, it's just gonna take time to build up the ability.
This is the first time I've seen Rory bristle with an interviewee.
excellent guest. we need more like him in european politics. we need more europe also.
Europe must united together and find a most effective way to a great confederation with strong market, finance and military
Re Rwanda.Guy says that there are no European countries making a deal with Rwanda. In fact the racist social democrat government of Denmark is trying to do just that. "It remains the government's goal to relocate asylum processing to a partner country in collaboration with the EU," That partner country is Rwanda. They are yet to succeed, but it is their intention.
Italy on the other hand is making a deal with Albania for asylum camps
I agree with everything he says. But he, like the rest if the liberal establishment of Europe, must realize that mass migration to Europe is a real problem for common Europeans, not far right ones, but centrist ones and moderates. Calling policies against migration far right is a very big mishandling of the term and labels the majority of Europeans far right, which will actually make them think "This is a bit of a deal breaker for me so maybe I am far right, now I will vote for AfD or UKIP who address this issue" The centrist parties in Europe must address people's worries and not push them to vote for actual far right parties.
How much sense does Guy make. Stronger together, the EU with the UK can go toe to toe with US, China, Russia with better trained troops and tactics. That’s proven. Why are people scared of this. “We lose our country”. Alone we fall, together we stand. Even in WW2 Churchill said that if our Island nation falls then our Empire will keep fighting. People forget that Britain wasn’t alone after the fall of Europe. Britain was never alone no matter what some people what u to think she was.
So if the EU had voted to fight in Iraq Germany and France should have fought? Vice versa would the UK and Poland have stayed at home? Of course a comman army means giving up sovereignity.
Trouble is even when EU was united it was not as cohesive as it needed to be. It often failed to protect and nurture its unicorns from take overs by China and US. Who often took over its leading businesses and stole intellectual property then closed business. Then internal market businesses bought out internal competitors and destroyed the businesses for internal gain. Mutual strengthening against the world is still needed.
That last question from Rory Stewart about political successes and failures to illustrate political skills should be posed to future political guests.
What an amazing chap! We need more like him. He sees the world so clearly 👌
This man scares me. His country might desperately need to merge with others, we don't.
What he doesn't say is who would control this unified Europe and how they would get there and more importantly how we get rid of them?
Yes, Zelensky is such a heroic figure!? Elected on a platform of peace with Russia and peace within Ukraine, he radiply abandoned his promises. Then he allowed himself to be used by the US and the UK against Russia in withdrawing from the peace negotiations in Istanbul in March April 2022. The result - the death of 500,000 of his people, the exodus of 10 million, the destruction of half of the country, the turning of Ukraine into a dependent of EU and US money. What a record...
Meanwhile, this Belgian politician doubles down on the need to further militarise Europe while presiding over an EU that sludes further and further into economic decline and poverty.
Russia heard his peace platform and saw it as weakness. How can Zelensky deliver peace when Ukraine has been invaded? Or are you talking about the Russian definition of peace, the one that says give up some of your territory and the rest can live under nominal independence as long as you allow Russia to dictate you path for you.
Brilliant. Can you get Tusk on ?
Great interview that changed our minds on a number of issues, excellent
I had to switch off at the discussion of the Rwanda genocide. You are complaining that lessons weren't learnt and yet you are actively supporting another genocide currently going on in the middle East.
There was no glory for Rory in his approach in this one. Pun intended.
Oh Rory! Once again taking personal offence at robust language against your fellow Tories, many of whom you decry as well. Angela Rayner’s angry outburst against people who were supporting the hypocrisy of so many Tories, you took as a personal insult, even though you too found that hypocrisy unacceptable. Your education and background has give you the questionable advantage of never feeling the need to express your anger in colourful even crude language. But don’t write off those who actually can be more effective in expressing anger than accepting dire actions in measured tones.
Rory embarassed badly in this one. You see the gulf in expertise
Not listening to the public, but rather pushing forward with your own quest for power, to enable a future you think is best. Interesting! Sounds a lot like Dictatorship
That’s politics, at least he’s being honest about it.
@@col.hertford9855If he was controlling Europe you know what you'd get then- dictatorship from the centre
Great to hear about passion and vision from a politician - I so agree that it is the job of the politician to give the people hope. Keir Starmer is a bit of a washout on that front. Why doesn't he wake up and say every morning, 'what can I give hope about today?' I like this Guy guy. , haha. I'm not sure where he stands as clearly he's changed his ideas. But that's good. I don't like that way Rory and Alistair never connect or respond to what's been said. Rory just looks sceptical, as though he doesn't like the cut of his jib.
Guy is a visionary. Not everything he says is feasible, but you can't deny the man has a vision.
Yes, his vision is endless European self-flagellation.
I actually agree with this and I’m a former Brexit supporter 😅.
I think a big problem is that the EU wasn’t argued strongly for in a POSITIVE way before the referendum.
The idea of a strong “Empire Europe” is actually very cool and could appeal to right-wingers, but the arguments made by remainers were lame, wet, and wishy-washy, while Brexiteers painted a positive and hopeful vision of the future.
Great guy, Guy Verhofstadt.
34:54 this all feels very childish 😅 wth stewart?
Politics today, "why'd you call me mate a wan&er!?!?! 😂😂😂
What a legend!
Good man Rory. Well done. It needed to be mentioned. Not a good look fir European empire when he resorted to low class name calling. Need a new European project. UK should start it.
You know if the express hate him he must be doing something right.
Who exactly does Guy think is going to invade the EU? Russia cant even defeat a weak neighbour.
A caption of a new side of Rory
when are politicians going to realize that europe can't take everyone in need forever. it's one thing to help ukranians,or even people who helped our militaries in afghanistan,etc.but to take millions of uneducated,with no money[unless to pay the people traffickers] from cultures and religions alien to ours,it will change the way we live in ways that don't benefit no one. it's easy for politicians who live in gated houses away from the mess they created to think otherwise.
So. Why are you not leading the masses then? Simple question.
You are not unique. Your country is not unique. Your problems, fears and needs are not unique.
Have you ever thought about this. The UK is having an absolute influx of immigrants due to a failing border system. Because UKs border used to be Greece and now it is Dover.
No country in the world can stop migration. Unless you are Russia because who wants to go there. But the thing is it is a global issue and the EU as a whole can do way more about it then individual countries ( see UK).
@@ai-d2121 of course you can stop illegal migration, the Australians stopped it. People come from France and are put in hotels, if instead they put them in prison. Or just put the navy on the channel. Rich countries like Japan or South Korea, don't have this problem, because they make sure no one gets in illegally.
Japan seems to make it work@@ai-d2121
@@alexandrecordeiro4957 I can clearly not beat you on arguments. I will never be able to lower melyself to your level and beat you at stupidity because you trained all your life for it.
Just one question. Simple one. WHY is it not solved?
@@ai-d2121 ask yourself why so many people are against illegal migration? you say i'm stupid,go to any western prison and see the percentage of non europeans arrested,see what crimes they commited. give you another example, do you know how black south africans treat other blacks who migrated from other african countries? as for why it is not sorted, people will vote for someone like in holland,or god forbid worse. rich middle east countries take millions of migrants,both educated or for menial jobs,but after the work ends they all go home. try to go to a muslim country with a bible and preach about christ message,see what happens,but they come here and abuse our laws and freedoms in everyway.