After enlightenment, what's left, what's the point? ~ Shinzen Young
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2009
- Shinzen responds to the questions, "What's left after enlightenment? What's the point?" Filmed in April 2009, at Mt. Carmel Spiritual Centre in Niagara Falls.
After enlightenment, the dishes.
Magic! :D
Great answer!!! Nothing more has, or can be said.
Exactly, accepting things as they are,whether it's meditating,washing the dishes,or going for a walk. Being mindful of whatever situation arises,and knowing it is impermanent
@@chriscampbell6626Before enlightenment: Turn on the heater, turn on the tap. After enlightenment: Turn on the heater, turn on the tap.....because it's the 21st fucking century !!
What if I’ve been doing dishes my whole life.
You need meaning and purpose when there is no joy. When there is joy, you don't need anything else
What you said here is really profound!
Thank you!!!!!
@Peter T joy is always there. all you have to do is allow yourself to experience it. happiness is the result of external stimulation of some kind. joy is whats left when you get rid of your own bullshit
Exactly.
my purpose is to experience joy
From my perspective, it's in the old saying: "Before enlightenment, you gather firewood and carry water. After enlightenment, you gather firewood and carry water." The difference is in "the way you do the things you do". I didn't have a dramatic flash of awareness, but I had to change my perspective on my life. I've been depressed earlier this year by the nonstop winter weather in my part of the world, but then I realized that winter is when winter weather happens! I realized one of the important parts of Buddhist realization: it's not about achieving happiness but reaching a state of calmness and equanimity. This is how one moves progressively through life...
Once you feel enlightenment, your new enlightenment journey begins.
There’s no journey, it’s just an eternal presence. 🙏
Finally a person that talks more objectively about AFTER enlightenment. Thank you so much!!!
"When you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
@Alessandro Fuselli shut up!
@Alessandro Fuselli He is enlightened.
If you are the light to yourself then you are that you are.(I AM THAT I AM)
before enlightenment; unawareness of "screw-ups and bad habits" after enlightenment; awareness of "screw-ups" and bad habits" ~! I love life.
Not if you can't change the bad habits, being so utterly aware of them but not able to change them only compounds the misery. There may be no suffering, but that doesn't mean there's no pain, and a pain-filled/trauma filled life isn't one you can really love even if your in the ideal 'state' to be able to naturally, effortlessly accept what you can't change.
oh please mr. brainyone - it was a playful comment ~ LIGHTEN UP
You have had an enlightenment experience?
every experience is one of enlightenment - theres no finish line. But - anyway, i was just making a little joke. :-)
I really am curious though - have you had a classic kensho or experience with the Void? I just would really like to find people who have had these and not the standard "All of life" line that generally means that no, you haven't. In my experience, 12 years of the gradual path hasn't really done much of all for me and Shinzen (despite what this video says) says bluntly in another video "I was never the same" after his initial breakthrough.
Finally, the myth is starting to break and we are starting to open up about the reality of consciousness. It helps me, so many traps of my spiritual ego, of 'arriving' somewhere beyond my humanity which is an illusion!
Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
While practicing, chop water, carry wood.
Exactly
Before enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water.
During enlightenment: Chop water, carry wood.
After enlightenment: Carry water, chop wood. (One finally figures out that chopping wood first makes your arms shaky.) ;^)
@@easywrighder1099 you'll be fine lol
@@easywrighder1099 whoever sew any clothes ?
“I’ve had to spend my entire life refining the implications of that in my life”....so beautifully said. The dance of self and no-self present in this video is beautifully instructive. Such gratitude for your sharing.
Today, I thought, "This process is literally never-ending." And at the end of the word 'never-ending', it dawned on me that this could only BE never-ending; infinite! There is only now, and when my body is gone there will only be another now to be aware of. I don't die, only "Comiken's story" ends. Enlightenment is just me without the story of me!
Welp. Back to drawing comics.
Indeed!
Yes enlightenment is you without the story of you. And when the story finally leaves permanently, youre fully enlightened. The problem is with his understanding of enlightenment. There is BY DEFINITION a hard dividing line, whether or not it’s dramatic or sudden is a different question. In the video, he seems to be talking about individual satoris, not enlightenment. If he only had a satori then he is certainty not enlightened. A permanent, constant, continuous experiential knowing of the not-self truth (no story) in the waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states. All the post-enlightenment activities he described are certainly not a description of an enlightened person. He merely had a satori (or satoris) and now claim to be enlightened. Sounds like youve also had at least one satori.
@@ibperson7765 I can't speak for Shinzen Young, but in my case, what I experienced was definitely subtle and temporary. I had another in which I saw nothing exists when there's no me present. Also not permanent. At this point, I feel like I'm just waiting out the ego's last mechanisms. Is the realization permanent once it reaches the heart?
@@TheComiKen Just my opinion (and with not much info) but it sounds like you are at the point where some relentless simplicity to just keep up the satoris and going for continuity is best. This would be someone like Vishrant. Also, the various Mooji invitations can help trigger them. Although you got there with intellectual concepts turning into realizations, from here it’s best to note what is actually happening at those points: whatever or whoever is aware of your experience became aware of itself. You had ideas and realizations around that but what made them profound rather than trite was that fact. I would say: ask ‘who or what is aware of my experience?’ At the end of the day get home and sit and say “done” and sigh and then say “Whats here now when theres no problem to solve?” That palpable thing is called beingness or awareness of awareness. Also look at the inside edge of your eyeball. In other words not out to any external object but to your eye itself. If you hold that gaze for a couple minutes you will quiet your mind and feel some mild awe and then possibly awareness will become aware of itself. This is also called being aware of beingness. If any of these stop working and feel forced remember you are not a god and consciously surrender. These arent things we own; it’s about who we ultimately ARE. But also anytime in the future you get another conceptual insight and a sense o of awe, dwell in that awe, hold it. That too is being aware of your true self. Eventually you can just go into awe and wonder, without a concept that you are amazed about. Stay there forever and you are enlightened and can slowly start to function well like that. Without thought. But at first satoris will make you freeze in your tracks. Good luck my friend. 🙏🏻
@@ibperson7765 Thanks! Mooji and Rupert Spira are definitely in my top two for clarity. I'm just going to continue to focus on the sense "I AM" until I know for sure.
You become a light to the world pointing all people to the truth.
Great video. I think the general belief is that 'after' enlightenment, all karma and negative tendencies somehow magically dissolve. I believed this also for a long time. But as you explained that stuff doesn't just go away but still needs to be worked through. However, I do believe it easier to work through this stuff as an enlightened being. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
"Effortless flow of emptiness"...beautiful expression!
Reaching enlightenment is unique to each biological entity. One doesn't NEED to meditate, read texts, or practice any kind of ritual or traditional work. One doesn't also NEED to destroy or control the ego or the thought process for those are aspects that belong to the biological. Enlightenment is simply realization of knowledge and knowledge is available to anyone who seeks it no matter who they are, what their past or current practices are, or how they got there. Once you realize that, your way to enlightenment will be cut short.
To anyone who still wonders how he/she can realize it, trust in yourself. If you feel the need to lead a life in a monastery, do that as it will be a part of your journey. If sitting at home and googling feels more authentic to you, then do that. You have to realize that enlightenment is unrelated to what others are doing or what is expected of people seeking enlightenment in this world. Don't occupy yourself with the practice and let the desire to be better in your practice take hold of you. You are everything even with your 'shortcomings' so act like you're everything and you will realize that you are.
^^^^^ Even what I just wrote should be taken with a grain of salt. Trust only in what you believe is true.
ileavecommentshere Dude, google and youtube were indespensible.
David Wu
Yup. A lot of people assume that true knowledge has to be something 'exotic' or 'mystical'.
ileavecommentshere well said :)
+ileavecommentshere if not mystical, what's it then?
@@NarasimhaB What could be more mundane than simply being?
Simply experiencing life after the revelation is its own reward.
Understanding the behavior of yourself and others, seeing the connectedness of all things, realizing the necessity of tragedy. This all helps the mind see the order in a seemingly chaotic universe.
I had the sudden type without practice, but had been raised with Zen Buddhist teachings. The entire thing has been visceral and epic, with moments of mind blowing universal truths, as well as delusions. I am slowly coming to recognise the state of peace and love, free of mind to be the most important. One of the hardest things has definitely been changing my old behaviours and habits. I can see a long road ahead , but am becoming more level day by day. Thanks for your video you are spot on :)
Same with me almost it took 10 years
Same with me, happen about 6 years ago spontaneously seemingly out of nowhere. You wrote this comment 8 years ago, I don't know if you're still around, but if you are could you give me an update on how things have worked out? I'm just feeling like it's not really working out for me, having a lot of difficulty changing the original patterns, and doing much of anything really. So I'm curious to hear if you worked it out.
I saw the nature of the self or the no self when I became frustrated with my practice and decided to stop practicing, and I agree that once you have insight into no self that is not the end there is still a lot of work that has to be done.
I've never heard it described as the effortless flow of emptiness before. I like that.
7:28 look at that smile after he says that love is the point.
Thank you🥰😍 i was one of those who had a sudden enlightenment.... at that point it was so so beautiful, but currently i struggle A LOT. Dont know what way to go.... hate that. I was so focused before enlightenment, but nothing was inportant anymore after it.... in the end, we will still struggle, whether we are or are not enlightenent. We have to struggle... otherwise we would not be nice people.
Hope you are doing good . In the same boat. All the best with the new journey
I had a sudden enlightenment. It was very emotional and leaves me still asking, what now?
@@coro1676 you may want to look into Adyashanti’s teachings
@@ry2zen thank you so much! I don't even know where to begin it seems like there's so much. I will definitely look into that:)
Have patience, hard time will pass off, troubles what u r facing will only make u balance d
Enlightenment is like the snake shedding the skin. It will never stop growing.
I had my first enlightened experience of being aware of my ego, after a heavy spell of Major Depression. Have been a Dhyana practitioner ever since.
one of the Greatest Teachers
Great talk
There's I nothing after enlightenment there is joy of living free from mind controlling thoughts its .appreciating every instance of life
Enlightenment for the masses equals a world moving in a better direction. Knowing the true reality causes one to go from bliss to misery and back again. Learning to view all life events as a part of the path helps allot. After enlightenment we may not be able to describe in words what we understand. Finding a friend who understands would be grand !
Beautifully put my unknown friend.
This is BEAUTIFUL!
I love knowing there are s many people looking into this. :)
I suspect they are in the 'honeymoon phase' of spiritual practice. You read some books, think over a lot of stuff, perhaps do some meditation, and realize on a conceptual level that there is much more to the universe than you thought. It is an amazing revelation - at the level of the mind. It's wonderful while it lasts, which could be many years. It also has no substance to it whatsoever.
enlightenment is only the beginning!
The Universe in cooperation with TH-cam AI keeps taking care of me sending me those videos exactly when I need them :)
Feel the same.
Join us ,unity in diversity, together we are stronger.
After enlightened there is only one thing you realize;
There is nothing that's not enlightened❤🙏🤗
Besides billions of unenlightened souls
@@BeHumbleOkay there is only ONE soul and it's the enLIGHTenment itself. There is no other separate soul which is not enlightened.🤗❤
@@ozgursenturk11-11 Try meditating on the following question, and take some time to reflect and inquire before you respond. When you say there is only one soul in existence, is that truly something which you [know] to be true, or is it merely a [belief] that you're holding?
I was once where you are now, but I've since come to see the error in my reasoning.
If there is only one soul in existence, then this would imply that solipsism is the case of reality. This means that You are the only form of life, and therefore all other beings are merely shadows of you, like lifeless robots which only appear to have consciousness, or like the characters that you interact with in your dreams at night.
This would imply that I only exist as the words on your screen, and nothing more; that these words aren't being written by another being which is conscious just as you are, the words are just appearing on their own and are written by no one.
If this were true, then we could meet in real life and you could murder me, but morally speaking, it would be no different than smashing a toy robot or a computer with a baseball bat. If you believe that there genuinely is life behind my eyes, and that therefore it would be wrong to attack me, then you are presuming that I have a soul which is separate to yours, which would experience pain upon being attacked and would stop experiencing life from this body upon being killed.
My experience of life is completely seperate to yours. You cannot see from my eyes, nor hear from my ears, nor feel what my body feels.
If you think there is only one soul in all of existence, then you are implying that You are the only soul in existence; that life only exists as it is being manifested in your awareness right now.
Solipsism cannot be proven nor disproven, but I choose to believe that there is in fact life behind your eyes, and that you have your own separate, private, and individual conscious awareness just as I do. Therefore, I would not wish to speak hurtful words that might hurt your feelings, nor treat your body in any manner that might cause you to experience bodily pain.
Let me know your thoughts; I'd be happy to have a friendly chat about all this, soul to soul ;) 🙏
Very down to earth and practical re. the interrelationship between sudden and gradual enlightenment. "Love" means feeling loved...it's the "Divine Love"...experiencing the underlying lights and vibration and warmth that are always there but covered up by our emotional and cognitive obscurations. It's much larger than simple "romantic" love between two people. Experiencing and stabilizing Divine Love engenders deep gratitude and love for self others...and all of creation...which can further deepen the sense of Divine Love in a positive feedback loop. (There is no separation between self and others at this point.)
Thank you very much, Shinzen Young :)
Thank you for your insight.
Thank you. All so well said.
So clear and honest thank you so much for sharing 🙏❤️
Thank you for this great video.
the point, is indescribable. It is not love for anything. thats the first thing the mind or ego will say. "well what do I love?"
The love spoken of is the experience of being loved. Feeling a love for yourself and all things. A love that is not attached to any thing but to nothing and makes all the things around this nothingness seem incredible. It's seeing the world as a child who has seen no evil and knows nothing, not even the difference between good and evil, but know everything as it is.
Very honest answer, very much appreciated. I was a little surprised that the need for psychotherapy arose---that definitely caught me by surprise.
I love knowing there is so much to learn.Thats something that we can all share. there are so many points of views. I love knowing myself. The grace, (effortless flow of emptiness) the silence peace, eternal tao, stillness. It's all so similar. Being so still and with what some call the eternal source or what we believe to be pure cosmic energy. I love knowing about all these things. It doesn't change but we change around it. That is a wonderful thing.
SHINZEN ROCKS. I mean it.
Then you return to the marketplace and never tell any of the ones still asleep. - The 10 Ox Herding Pictures
Thankyou, that's lovely
What an amazing explanation Thankyou
Great video. I like the closing comment about love. I have ran hot and cold on the subject of buddhism and altruism. But lately believe I am seeing more the purpose and if there is a point it may be compassion and love.
Wow. Great to hear someone speaking so honestly and integrally a out what "it" is really like "after." Thanks for being so honest and not playing the enlightened game. It's very reassuring for those of us realising this and not to fall into confusion, which of course would never happen if you were really enlightened!
I started meditation age 7 and has mystical experience but didn't experience awakening as no self until 2011. Massive healing occurred and at first it seemed like I was beyond all problems. Then I acclimatised and though I had released my past story, still life throws spanners at me. Sometimes I have wondered if I didnt awaken at all due to the false idea that awakening means you'll transcend all pain and all of life challenges.
In tne past couple years like you the same question why? Why? Why keeps occurring and that !t growth seems to be still happening within me but a bigger integral process emerging of sharing. What is the point of being awakens if it's just for me? Which of course it is not but the challenge is integration
Almost same story.
Dr David R Hawkins makes the best fist of explaining that which is beyond words.
Yes he is impressive. His book truth and falsehood is excellent.
Thank you, I'll look into that. I like Dr. Hawkins. In my opinion he gives a brilliant expression of What Is...
Love it! Totally!
I think I've had a "sudden" enlightenment sometime in april, but I have a long way to go. Being enlighten once doesn't mean you are tomorrow although it clearly does imply a total paradigme shift, at least it did for me. But I have to meditate every day in order to keep my mind quite, otherwise I easily fall to the thought of a separate self. And do I mediate everyday?? No, I don't. I tried to meditate in everything I do, but I feel I should meditate more. I just want to learn more about life
Mark these words ..however when one truly meditates on the "Living" word of God... thats TRUTH enlightenment. The bible says .. become a new creation in Christ. I truly hope that youve come to find not only what you're looking for but i hope with all my heart that youve come to find what every single person alive looks for everyday and dont even know it....in fact, millions and millions of lives have been lost in the search. Even still, come Lord Jesus. Kings and queens, rags to royalty, black, white and everything between, strongest to weakest, smallest to tallest... people throughout time and memorial have been divided by the the sheer jealousy and grwed of others happiness and contentment. Little do every single one of them know that, you can have the YOUniverse and everything in it yet it is all absolutely NOThing without putting God first.
May my Father, my Lord and my God bless you.
Ji
thank you. this rings true! :-)
Brilliant explanation.
The point is...love ! Great..I love it !
Love, that's the point.
To become even more enlightened. There are infinite degrees of awakening
More and more and more and ....
There are infinite steps to get to enlightenment. Once you are there there is no gong back.
I believe everything you say, but for me it was a dramatic change in consiousness. IT s impossible to ignore this. Its a change into Oneness that is so big that it costed me years to integrated again. So the question as it is is relevant. In my opinion for a couple of years there is hardly a life after enlightement as it was before. After 5 at 10 years I could integrated and function fully as before, but from another perspective.
Thank you
Lovely work my new unknown friend. Blessings from New Zealand.
Lovely speaker, hits the nail on the head. Even after your perception change, you still live in a society that now sees things radically different from you. Virtually any speaker I've listened to mentions re-integration within humanity with the new mindset as the greatest challenge. Cannot truly speak your mind, because even though humanity is currently in a spirtual growth spurt, only a tiny tiny fraction even remotely understands the idea's that you have.
Take the corona panic for instance. It may be weird walking around in a complete state of peace with whats going on. You may not respond to people the way they'd expect. Eckhart Tolle described how he'd originally always listened to peoples problems with a smile on his face, because on the inside he knew all is well - until people started asking wether he was taking them seriously. It may very well be people think there's something psychological going on with you (ironically people are more used to others in lesser states of being and view that as the standard). You may surrender to a situation because you feel a trust in something you do not understand, whereas others may blame you for not taking action. The list goes on endlessly.
Like I said, the speakers answer is very down to earth. Life on the inside may be pretty great, but live amongst humans in an ego identified society can be pretty challenging.
The way I see it is this - enlightenment is not going to liberate you from all of your pain, as long as you are still having an earthly experience here. Instead, the pain you now have is different from other people - they are suffering from their habitual way indoctrined by society, and you are suffering from your sense of alienation from the society. However, as an enlightened person, you are aware of your pain and can learn to live with it in peace, while other people may still be "blind" to what causes their pain. You can always choose to go back and rejoin the society as you once knew of - However, would you really want to do so?
@@JessMaccain You really say things as I see them as well, and I'd never choose to go down to a lower level of awareness regardless of certain new discomforts it brings. And to be honest, I cannot rejoin the society like the old me of ten years ago, I cannot avoid seeing what I see at the moment. I see too much.
Also, I'm not yet Enlightened but radical changes are happening to me, and I' m already sort of experiencing suffering without the drama - which is a bit unnerving sometimes. :P When people look at me they see the body they've always known speaking with a voice they're familiar with and thus they think I'm still the same person. Although I know that my inner world is radically different from virtually every person I meet out there. I can feel this.
I don't care about Enlightenment the same way I used to. I hope it will do two things. One, to click puzzle pieces into place and make me feel that everything is in divine order. Two, I hope that the light and energy it brings will uplift the people in my environment and the world. Because the Earth needs it.
And I know that despite Enlightenment I' ll still have to deal with bureaucracy and paying taxes lol.
@@Bassywassy20 You really nailed it by saying "experiencing suffering without the drama". I think you are on the right track. My feeling is similar - Despite unfulfilled needs on the surface and negative feelings resurfacing sometimes, there is indeed a "deeper self" there which is wholesome. I'm in early awakening stage, so that although I can see that "deeper self", she is still sleeping. However, I'm glad that at least I'm aware of her existence now. I think eventually the sleeping deeper self will gradually wake up. She may have already started awakening, as recently I'm bringing more life energy out of myself - It is a wonderful thing. We often work on isolated areas of weaknesses. However, once you start bringing out life energy, it's like blowing up a balloon - the shortcomings here and there get "smoothed out" altogether.
@@Bassywassy20 I also concur with the feeling that we have not changed on surface, but deep down there is an earthquake. I do hope via Enlightenment, you can achieve the two purposes on your agenda. My current status is very humble - I realize that my first step is to at least make myself a smaller problem for the world.
@@Bassywassy20 Also on a funny note, you do need to be enlightened so that you can fill out your tax forms or deal with paperwork without clenching your teeth. Just imagine what Eckhart Tolle would look like when he simply accepts the moment of filling out his tax form.
Thank you Shinzen for telling it as it is.
My experience of sudden Enlightenment happened 30 years ago. I experienced absolute bliss, silence, stillness, oneness and what seemed all knowing and all manner of things that I find impossible to express, ("The Dao that can be named is not the true Dao"). All these great mysteries revealed in the blink of an eye. Yet you remain the same person you were before with all those same faults and fears! I was a young man with a young family and a young mortgage a busy social life an insecure job (Carpenter) and now I had a feeling of both fatalism and nihilism because of a wrong interpretation of one or two things within the knowing. What is in the knowing? An understanding that we all arise from the same source...nothing is separate from anything else. We are all immortal...death doesn't really exist..everything happens in the now...past, present and future and ultimately everything will return to the source (home). Yet some paths are less direct than others like the game snakes and ladders of which Karma will dictate, though I have no knowledge of Karma I believe nonetheless. So knowing these truths to be absolute how should one try to lead ones life in the correct way? Being mindful is absolutely key. Every morning after waking you should remind yourselves of these truths and try to use them in any given situation. This is certainly not an easy thing to do. The whole thing can lead to ever greater indecisiveness ie...if we all derive from the same source, can I eat meat! Vegetables!!! What the hell can I eat??? You can see the problem. Experiencing Enlightenment is just the start of a journey which will not culminate in this lifetime alone but for many more to come...Don't think about that too much, for after all eternity doesn't have a destination and there's no need to hurry.
What an unbelievable, unremarkable load of shit !!
Love, yes. There is nothing else.
Before enlightment there was someone trying to reach enlightment, after enlightment there is only enlightment. So the real questions is: who is asking?
Perfect.
@@TheComiKen who is asking? The one who replies
Why does there have to be a 'who' anyway?
Why not just drop the question?
@@buddhistsympathizer1136 what question? 😂😂😂
@@riccardoc1711 Any question that comes up.
Any answer to a question will just be a bunch of words . . . that can be argued to be right or wrong in comparison with another bunch of words. All concepts.
When you realise that all this is entirely conceptual, you have made the realisation. No more clinging to right or wrong.
Mine was sudden,,only a month ago, thanks for this video, its taking time to get a grip with emotions, I think the most important thing is that I need to accept that negative emotions will still occur, and also sometimes the self will still rear its head from time to time, not in the same way obviously because this time there is knowing, but there are still feelings of non clarity from time to time,however I wouldnt take a 1Billion dollars to go back, I cant put a price on inner peaceful silence
How are you sir? I think your comment closely relates to what I am experiencing right now. The feeling of actually being inside a video game, and when you close the eyes, the illusion is gone. I am not sure if this is what is referred as Realization.
TheIndiangooner hey same here. I lose clarity time to time. Felt the same like in a game . . Actually in a surreal dream and it’s overwhelming however as he pointed out would never go back
Almost 6 years ago this happened to me, been asking this question for at least 4 of those years. This video has been on here for 13 years, and now it finally shows up. Guess I had to be ready to hear it or something? At this point I might as well just call the TH-cam algorithm my spiritual teacher lol. Anyway, this process has been so slow for me. Many times I've even wondered if I wasted the experience by not taking greater advantage of it when it was "closer", or new. Before I got used to it maybe. Ever since it happened this is the first time I've heard anyone say that this can happen spontaneously without working towards it at all, that's what happened to me, and only now 6 years later do I finally find out that that's something people know about. It's so weird, because when it first happened all of the things you're saying was very clear, the part about love, and that there dosen't need to be a meaning and so on, but it feels kinda like a distant dream now that it's harder and harder to remember when I'm not reminded of it. Back then I just knew, didn't have to remember anything, but now it's just a memory I'm desperately holding on to. It's gone from being experience to being knowledge, which are completely different things. And I guess I'd like to go back to where it was experience, because remembering the past can't compare to living in the now. I get what you're saying about riding the bull, but in my life the bull is very docile, it never does anything, nothing ever happens. And I often find myself asking, why did this even happen to me if I'm just going to be experiencing this day over and over until I die without anyone ever gaining anything from what I've learned? Sure, it dosen't make that much of a difference to me, I know how to enjoy the days now, but to my brain it feels like this should have happened for a reason, it really wasn't to have a reason despite the ultimate meaninglessness of this concept. To it, doing nothing is the same as death, might as well just be dead if you're not going to do anything here anyway. I know that kind of thing sounds depressive to most people, but it's not, death isn't really a bad or sad thing, it's just the mind that makes it into that. But the point is that having this experience without doing anything with it is exactly like being a living a dead person, you're still walking and talking, but you're not really here anymore.
my opinion is if they are asking this question they are not yet enlightened
It will be a great help to you for the rest of your life
Thank you. I think I had a flash tonight. Forgive me for commenting only 4.09 mins through listening to you video (you answered the first question I had as I searched youtube in a bit of a panic, with the first thing you said, I think. How can we know everyone' enlightenment(s) are about the same thing? Or does that prove I haven't had it? thank you.
We can't really know and there very well may be very different enlightenments.
Enlightenment......I call it embodied realization ist already here. All the time. No work in it....no effort....no strughle...no rituals...etc.
Just allow to realize that I AM realized.
And no one can write a book about it how it will be for you.
It is like my breath is always here....but at some point I realized how deep my breath is.....how much life force energy is in the breath....and how sensual it is.
Breath is always here.
Realization is here.😉😃
True experienced !
What about being free is not true? We are all limited that's obvious enough. However I find that freedom comes from not only accepting that this is true but that anything and everything else is also possible. Any and all forms of limitation can be overcome. Freedom in my heart will never mean the exact same thing to anyone else. I'm the individual experiencing it. If I can share that with another then cool. If not oh well.
What's always been there !
Agree with many things he shared.
Some folks think 'enlightenment' is a one time experience, and that you've now become all that you can ever be, or in the language such things, you're now fully awake, thus now can see reality as it truely is without any hindrance.
And while it's true, based on experiences, that people can have dramatic moments of enlightenment, I tend to think of enlightenment as the process of shedding things that weigh you down. Light - as in a term relating to weight, not luminosity..and it's a gradual process, you shed something once you become aware of it. I've been improving for a few decades and I know there's still more to do, more things I have yet to discover about myself.
But in regards to luminosity - I think a similar phrase to enlightenment common in the West, is 'a light bulb moment'. You've had an increase in awareness, a decrease in unconsciousness, thus you can now see more than you could, thus typically your knowledge increases, thus you can now resolve a problem or issue.
But this light bulb moment, regardless of how profound and life changing the result, temporal or permanent, doesn't mean you no longer have any dark areas, doesn't mean you're now all knowing .
I regard myself as an awakening person, not an awakened one. It's an ongoing process of growth, transformation, development. It's not about being fully asleep, then having an experience, now you're fully awake. It's about constantly increasing your awareness, without having any factual knowledge of what your fully awakened self looks like (or even if this is possible), or what percentage you're currently at, nor of anyone else having this knowledge about you, regardless of how much they claim they know.
Many folks call themselves enlightened, in the sense they've achieved the ultimate and thus know everything and thus anything they say has to be the ultimate truth of a matter. I find these folks to be extremely delusional and their statements and behaviour doesn't match a person who's increased in awareness and insight of themselves.
Buddha as an example of gradual enlightening: If he was fully asleep before his enlightenment, he would not have been able to be aware he was asleep, the fully sleeping state would be the totality of his reality, he would not know he was asleep or awake, as asleep is all he knows, that would be his reality. But if he was partially awake, he would be aware he was asleep, thus make the effort to wake up (more).
Thanks!
I'm guessing being enlightened feels like being dead while being alive. I remember being suicidal a couple years back and I can say I felt the best when I thought I was going to end my life, better than any other period in my life. Im definitely not enlightened, nor do I care, but I think anyone struggling through depression/suicidal thoughts should first seek medical help while simultaneously learning to meditate.
It's very important to not confuse genuine medical issues with spiritual ones, and I see an awful lot of it. It also led to a lot of confusion for me.
6:55 - "As you begin to work through the Need to Find the Purpose, the Purpose arises spontaneously." - Shizen Young
"Sudden illumination; gradual cultivation." Zen Proverb (i.e. post-awakening is never ending)
Well I can say with perfect certainty that I have just reached enlightenment after a decade long journey. I know this because even if I lost this feeling of enlightenment, I would still uncondotionally love myself til the very moment of my death.
Now I am just surveying what others think about after their realization. I am currently in the state of reinterpretation of all phenomena from this newfound state of peace. I still have goals of things I would like to experience but even if I never got to experience these phenomena I would still unconditionally love myself. Haha.
I still have ego. I only don't feel shame or guilt about my ego anymore because I no longer identify with my ego. I unconditionally love it like one of my dear children.
This is good that you disect the questions. Often straightforward answers are given to meaningless questions. There isn't such thing as "enlightenment" in the sense of transition or coming from darkness to light, A to B. It's impossible to come into the light, because everything is light anyway. If it wasn't there would be nothing and obviously, there is always something going on.
The trouble with the word love is it means so many different, and conflicting, things that it becomes trite, possibly even meaningless as an answer. In terms of this discussion I find myself experiencing welcoming acceptance, until I am not, and there is my next lesson. A state of grace seems a better description to my personal experience. Followed by various states of not being in grace as the nature of existence asserts itself. I heard a phrase the other day which delighted me. "Even Bhuddha and Dharma are still in unfoldment"
I knew you were going to say 'love' - for that is what I have realized.
My dog also shows more love towards me....
Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
yes, it's good description. The fearlessness and stillness is since 'the happening' always there. So there is a something like a 'bordercross'. My old live is really gone
I have real trouble seeing these patterns that remain after enlightenment as habits, as shinzen does. I'd also love to see myself as screwed up cos i feel it would give me more power to change these patterns, but it isn't like this for me - i'm completely seperate from these patterns. Does this mean i'm depersonalised instead of 'enlightened'? Can anybody help with this? I'm always reading about how once you detach from the story of u it makes it so much easier to change that story, to play with and re-arrange form as it were. But for me it just been immesurably harder to change in this way
Yes!
@Aezandar42 Agreed. Shinzen once quoted a teacher of his as saying "Enlightenment is the loss of the distinction between enlightened and non-enlightened."
Hi there, thank you for your video. I would like to know if I am busy awakening... On most occasions while meditating, my head would feel as if it's swelling up, other times, I saw myself laying down on the ground and in this way I know this body that looks like me is dead but I'm not concerned as I'm starting at my body and observing the body decaying over observing it for a few days... Then on another occasion I was meditating and it felt like my body was opened in halve and it was slit open from head to my private parts... Was very profound experience.... Could u shed some light on this please.
Smiling…….🙏🏼
I had an enlightenment experience after practising Loch Kelly's Effortless Mindfulness, not really looking for enlightenment. I can tap into that experience, but I'm not working around being some kind of enlightened being all the time. Enlightenment is a way of experiencing the world and a way to be more present, but life is still life.
Some people are probably enlightenment all the time, someone less of the time, but I think everyone has already have enlightenment in them to some extent.
I’m from Ireland, my uncle is a Buddhist, we always have interesting discussions. But one of the things that always bothers me is my anger, I find other people very irritating and kind of heartless. I’m polite, and not overly polite, I don’t act up with people because you never know how someone is feeling. And people all the time without realising it, ad to my misery, they always nibble away at me, they make fun of everything I say, but then can’t take it back. And their words echo in my mind for a very long time after I see them and it drives me nuts. I’m not an angel or perfect but people always misread me, it’s very annoying, and I can almost guess what they’re thinking, the body language, scratching their noses, the look in the eye, the voice saying something else from what they’re talking about. I’m 29 in two weeks, I’m unemployed, I’m always alone and then I decide to actually be in company and I come away from it feeling even worse. I think I might have Aspergers. I spend 90% of my time alone, I draw and I read everything and I listen to my music, people have no idea how hard life is for me, and I shouldn’t have to tell them to make them somehow kinder to me.
This world is a fallen world, don’t expect other people to be kind.. their hearts are darkened..they were dead before they even came into the world, you are in a great situation , rejected by the crowd is gods blessing.. but only if you use this suffering and transform it into wisdom, you must become an alchemist and then you will rise above this world and all your sorrows, I’ve walked this pathless path myself, I’ve been in despair in such dark states of entanglement but now I am free, it was all worth it.. you are being called to look within so find a teacher to help you transcend the mind, god bless 🙏🏻.
I realise you are subscribed to sadhguru.. come on now with someone like that available it is not right to live in misery.. maybe your circumstances have changed now since you posted this 4 months ago, I hope so.
I feel your pain as I have very similar experiences. I live in UK and I know how difficult things are here. I think the way is just to let yourself be the way you are - like how a tree only grows the way it does. The people picking up on you won't have energy to sustain that attack every single day- so you just let it come as if it were a storm, and then let it pass as all storms eventually pass.
My teacher liked the proverb,"before enlightenment chop wood and carry water.....after enlightenment chop wood. and carry water"
Mark Sabia so far that seems accurate. Like you know the illusion of it but I mean it still has to be done or experienced.
@@DanielRamBeats....who do you think there is to do anything, who is there to experience anything ??
@@cspace1234nz i think ppl try to avoid the obvious choice of suicide after enlightenment...no other answer makes any sense to me
@Key Read Carlos Castaneda, and you'll understand what *really* comes after enlightenment...
Wow…so many enlightened people around here
Buddha described 4 stages of awakening, after the first stage or stream entry (sotapanna) the direction of life gets progressively established in the truth of Dhamma through breaking of first three fetters of doubt, self-view and attachement to practice rituals (freedom from ego clingings). Other seven fetters or chains weakens and drops away gradually.
after enlightenment, end of suffering, no fear, union with god, god perception, inner peace and outer peace, no conflict, clarity, positivity, bliss, love, satchitananda, devotin, serving, nourishment of the soul, excitement, honesty, integrity, playfulness, openess, recptivieness, effortlessnesss, emptiness, abundance, freedom, flow state, ego death, death of death, death of doubt and fear and lack and belief in seperateness. I can go on and on :) it goes on and on post enlightenment, that's only the begining, there is always more, you are always more than before, always more clearly awake and aware of your power and worthiness just as you are
Speaking from experience?
@@squamish4244 whoa a 2 years ago comment now has 2 days ago reply. yeah thats what I experience. i can still relate with the comment. the word enlightenement can sound arrogant though so it depends i guess
@@woostaboo Hey, TH-cam is old now and what is time anyway? No, I'm glad you replied to my comment. After 20 years of very hard work on the path, starting at 25 years old, I have gone through horrifying and very complex spiritual and medical issues that I have needed all the help in the world to just survive. It has cost me a family and a career. I am financially secure, and that's all I am. It has been absolutely gruelling, draining and disillusioning. So many doctors and hospitals, so much figuring out stuff that nobody has the answer to. NOBODY.
I need stories like your to give me motivation and hope. SO many people on these videos talk about enlightenment, but when you press them, probably 95% admit they have not had an enlightenment experience. I check back ten years later and they are still like, "Any day now/It's getting closer" etc. You find this on a lot of neo-Advaita stuff, like Adyashanti, EckhartTolle, Mooji, Byron Katie etc. Nobody but a very rare few actually seem to be getting anywhere, everyone else _thinks_ they are.
So I like Shinzen's modern, innovative, no bullshit approach. Things are changing very quickly out there, and the spiritual path is no exception. Adapt or die. Thanks for stating your experiences again.
whoa fascinating beautiful
@@woostaboo Tbh, your words aren't anything I haven't heard a million times before. Bliss, love, oneness, blessings, togetherness etc. It's all spiritual pablum to me. Because it's not _my_ experience of reality, and it only helps me not commit suicide.
What I am interested in is what someone actually DOES to get enlightened. And on that point, we are just abysmal. Just terrible. The neo-Advaita "We are all already enlightened" stuff has failed. After 30 years of those teachers, they have not produced results.
Once, Tami Simon pressed Adyashanti on his assertion that enlightenment is "not rare". He tried to slip out of answering the question, but she kept pressing him. Eventually he said, "Hundreds. 200?" Now at this point, Adya had probably met about 10,000 students. So that's a 2% success rate. And that's not even to his level - that's people who have had an enlightenment experience at all. And I keep hearing this number over and over again in the different communities - 1 or 2%.
Can you imagine if universities had a 2% graduation rate? And I mean just your bachelor's, not a PhD, which we can take as a very high level of enlightenment. Who would get blamed? The teaching and teaching, of course. Instead, in Buddhism, it gets turned around and put on the student. You failed, you didn't work hard enough, you're not committed enough, your karma is too heavily, come back next life etc. This has been the standard Buddhist response for millennia, and look where it's gotten Buddhism. Confined to an elite of society with the vast amount of time and energy necessary to pursue it.
Even Shinzen is prone to this bias. He says that awakening is a slow process for most people. What he fails to mention is that his own sudden experience after *four years* of practice, at the age of about 30, is in practical terms a very big deal, because it drastically reduces anxiety, it removes the greatest of the hindrances, skeptical doubt, and confers a bunch of other benefits. And having such an experience so young means that he has had many decades to vigorously pursue the path with confidence in what he is after.
The most comprehensive study ever done of people who've had enlightenment experiences made a number of striking findings, like, for instance, most of them just sort of stumbled onto enlightenment and most don't know how to get other people enlightened. So they are basically useless as teachers.
Those who woke up as part of a tradition still generally seemed to be predisposed to it happening, and they underestimated how hard other people would have it. Shinzen at least acknowledges this, as he told people at a recent retreat that "Many of you have had it much harder than me". And I still don't know if any of his students has reached his level, I've never come across that information.
Communicating all of this to someone who has already woken up is like talking to a wall 90% of the time. "Just let go, ask who wants enlightenment, ask what is the ego, blah blah blah." The same stuff recycled over and over again. Unless they are part of a tradition. What I want to hear is, "Do this, and this, and this, and if that doesn't work, try this, and if that doesn't work, try this." I *do not* want to hear "There is nothing to do and nobody to do it", because here I am, somebody with a lot to do.
So if you can't respond with anything other than "Just let go", don't respond at all. It's funny, that advice hasn't worked in 20 years, so I don't think it's going to start working now.
The effortless flow of emptiness is also the effortless flow of everything = the tao.
this is the truth about enlightenment. I'm glad this guy is telling it how it really is.
when i was 18 i got enlightenment for a looong time, it was sudden, as a result of a lot of suffering
Amazing. What happened? How are you now?
3:30 This sudden experience is what happened in my case. I had to look up afterward, what this no-self/nondual awareness was. Though in the years prior I did have highly volatile (very horrible and wonderful) experiences that rattled what was inside.
I, mistakenly, thought it would all be bliss after Enlightenment, but the following breaking-down of the Ego is a challenging journey in itself (at least for me).
One foot in front of the other…
I had a sudden experience. I had no idea that such things even happen and at first thought I was going mad. I'm still finding my way after this total shift in consciousness, but these types of videos definitely offer some guidance. Thanks 🙏
Could you describe your experience please?
Same
I had a sudden experience without any practice whatsoever. And then it was impossible to turn around. What did I do? Started learning every single thing I could about it all. Judging by the suttas and the guides, like the one by Mahasi Sayadaw, I'm currently at Sakadagami level, trying to understand what is going on. I think I'm still trying to "ride the ox" and purify my conduct, my behavior, my habits... It's a hell of a lot of work, and I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all, but I've had experiences of perfect and complete liberation that lasted for a few days, and it's complete and absolute bliss. I guess the idea now is to be able to reach that state of bliss permanently and voluntarily now? Can you help me?
Bliss states come and go. Enlightenment doesn't equal eternal bliss. What it does offer is contentment, or peace, no matter what you're thinking, feeling, etc. Just rest as awareness and let your body, mind, and feelings function as they do. At a point you'll become spontaneous and act without thinking, and you'll see that you can trust that spontaneity, as it's coming from a deeper level, and it is much more wise than your mind is. "Alan Archer" is a happening, like a tree is happening, or a gust of wind, or your heart beating. It's all just happening. So just let "Alan" happen. Of course, if you have tendencies to lash out and be cruel, notice those feelings but don't become them. Be loving, even if you have to communicate something difficult to someone. In my experience, i never have to try hard to be gentle and loving, it seems to be automatic when you reach a certain state of consciousness. Other than that, rest in your being and just watch the incarnation do its thing, it really doesn't require much effort, if anything it's the end of effort. Hope that helped. ❤
I don't play those games, but the words you used show you do, that's why I called it out.