Dr. Smith, would you be willing or able to unpack some of the points that Emmet Scott raises in his book, "The Impact of Islam", on your channel? His book, along with Dr. Robert Spencer's book, "Did Muhammad Exist?", got me tuned into the whole field of the historicity of the "prophet" of Islam, and was instrumental in shaping my view that he was largely a composite creation. But his book was published back in 2014 and your subsequent research really fills in a lot of gaps and holes that existed in his conclusions in the Appendix of that book. I would really be interested in hearing what you, Murad, and Mel have to say about the ideas that he raised in the book with respect to the uncanny similarities between the heretical Gnostic Ebionite doctrines, and early Islamic doctrines. Thank you again, sir, for your amazing work in this field of Christian polemics. You are an inspiration and a treasure to more people than you could possibly know. Thanks to YOU, and YOUR ministry, I finally have the intellectual framework and facts as a Christian to confront Islam with reason AND faith.
2021 let’s form a course on a teachable style site. It would make it easy for newcomers to follow the line of evidence based learning that you consistently put out. I’ll be the first to pay you guys 👍
That's a great idea. Maybe someone would like to take that on with a passion for that. I honestly think I will have at least another 6 months of discoveries before I run out of new material. The area is so vast.
@@TheDidacticMind I’ve read at least a half dozen biographies of the life of Mohammed. But recently I was looking at the table of contents of “The Life of Mohammed” by A. Guillaume (which is a translation of “The Life of Mohammed” that is the oldest most trusted source according to conventional/traditional Islamic orthodoxy) which has entries referencing the fate of a party of early muslims who immigrated to Ethiopia seeking protection under the king of Ethiopia at a time when muslims were being persecuted in Mecca - this was before the Medina period. However, the story is told in multiple sources. What it implies is that these people did not have enough relatives of caste to protect them - because Mecca was under the law of kin-based-vengeance (this system protected Mohammed as his uncle had declared him under his protection; so murdering Mohammed would release a hatfields vs McCoy’s type of feud.) The story goes that Mecca sent a party to Ethiopia asking for the release of these people in their custody, but the King of Ethiopia, was persuaded that their religion was similar enough to his own that they justified his protection and so he did not release them to the Meccans. I believe the story goes that later they either returned to Mecca or returned to Medina after Mohammed had moved up there.It’s been a while since I read that story. My own feeling is that something/someone suddenly caused Arabian coalescence at a time when the metropolitan empires were still suffering/recovering from both plague & famine (beginning in 535). Plague by the way is why Mohammed would have been given to bedouins in his infancy - as towns were much vulnerable to plague than the nomadic beduoins were and as a result this shifted a population advantage to the Arabs vis-a-vis the Byzantines & Sassanians but they still needed a cohesive agent to draw them together and Islam provides that - it emphasizes one-ness in almost everything. The traditional account makes sense in every way but Geography (and maybe demography).
Patricia Crone did an amazing work. Really kudos to her! 👍 Jay, I think you mentioned that Patricia Crone was the person who found that there are no mentions of Mecca till 740s. But, you thought she missed that Mecca was closer to Harran (based on first reference). I don't think she missed it. I think she was smart and realized that a) trying to show that early Mecca is closer to Harran would be a great challenge. (And defending that position would be very hard). b) Totally unnecessay to the main point that mecca was non-existent before 700 CE. Yea, great work by Patricia Crone! And thank you, Jay, for bringing her work to all of us (unwashed illiterate masses...) 😊
I’ve been a big fan of David Wood for a long time and I love his material, but I gotta go with Jay Smith on this one as he’s working with actual historical evidence and material.
Mel really comes up with the facts and speaks a lot of sense. His story of islam makes a lot more sense than islams own and explains a lot of anomalies about that story.
Jay, a suggestion to all debaters; while 1 person at the other end is talking n you want to say or deny his/her statement but you r suppose to not to interfere you may hold few ready made written board with words like, "object, not true, lie, prove it etc" these single words will give great impact try it.
Jay and Mel. As a Christian and a westerner, I always assumed that the Second Coming of Christ was metaphorical. We used to say "the marvels of modern science". But maybe the Internet is truly a creation of God. The internet brings us the truth, and Christ is the Truth, and the light, the light of men. So maybe the Second Coming is nigh?
Brother Mele you have to make the Arabic audience access to this knowledge in arabic I see there is a parallel lines in english and there is arabic but they really haven't met enough they need to meet its urgent and vital thank you bro
I grew up reading about the adventures of HMS Wind Rhode, a destroyer in WWII. Amazing stories and very popular. The author wrote more and more books and someone pointed out that for a single vessel to experience all those things, the war would have to have been 10 years long. How does the hadiths fare at a similar examination? If the hadiths all cover events which happened during the 23 years of the alleged revelations, just how many hadiths were produced on an average month? If the number of unique hadiths are estimated from at least 4000 that mean 14 each month. That would be like making a facebook update worthy of safekeeping for eternity every second day for 23 years. Is that reasonable given the content? An honest question. It could be as far as I know. I just wanted to put it out there.
What is interesting is that apparently no salaried "Theologians" from any universities from any traditions Christian/Muslim/Secular or otherwise are entering into this debate. Why is that? In fairness to YQ at least he is daring to enter the discussion. There again he does not have much choice as he created it in the first place. One fears that the likes of John Wansbough and Patricia Crone and their companions would be drummed well "out of the brownies" with dishonorable discharges if they were to offer their groundbreaking work today 4 decades after they originally set the course. Who is funding our principal academic institutions today and where is the intellectual credibility. Either Jay, Mel, David, Brubacker, and all their ilk are "Off the wall" pedalling "pulp fiction" like John Allegro, and need to be held to account or they are onto something. Meanwhile our most credible institutions are declining to participate in what is perhaps the watershed moment in Islam similar to 1517, and all for reasons of "Political" and Economic Correctness, in which case academia is over (which it probably is anyway)! "To your tents, Israel!" 1Kings12:16 (BD.Akc MA SOAS)
Please read Bernard Weiss’ “The Spirit of Islamic Law”, Weiss, I believe only recently passed away, was a legal scholar. This book is an explanation of Islamic jurisprudence. Also the law of Byzantium was revised by Justinian in 535, it was the most sophisticated system of law ever created to that date. The Europeans found copies of this law near Ravenna and that led to the creation of the university of Bologna, from there Justinian’s law spread throughout Europe and lead to the creation of Universities all over Europe for the spread of law. It was only revised when Napoleon came along.
The theory on Nasara that resonates most with me is from the root ن ص ر (n S r) “helper” since in the following ayah the hawaryoon ( fishermen?) are called AnSar.(pl. helpers) فَلَمَّاۤ اَحَسَّ عِيۡسٰى مِنۡهُمُ الۡكُفۡرَ قَالَ مَنۡ اَنۡصَارِىۡۤ اِلَى اللّٰهِؕ قَالَ الۡحَـوَارِيُّوۡنَ نَحۡنُ اَنۡصَارُ اللّٰهِۚ اٰمَنَّا بِاللّٰهِۚ وَاشۡهَدۡ بِاَنَّا مُسۡلِمُوۡنَ
Fascinating stuff, well done gents. I suppose the ultimate test is the fruit that comes forth from what we believe in, from what I’ve experienced of Islam it’s fruit is death, deceit and destruction.
From historical point of view, there is no problem using Allah in bible. Historical evidences show Allah has been used by people in Arab prior to Islam. The problem is that Islam tries to Islamicize everything from history, geography, names, even forcing them to other religion's theology to justify its theological claims. For example, they claim that all prophets are muslims, despite all archaeological evidences. Even some tafseers claimed that Sidharta Gautama is also a muslim.
@@AgustianesUmbaraSuwardi i concur with your view of retaining the name Allah, however i would go with the suggestion of changing the name from Isa to Yeshua which has no founding in the Arabic usage.
@@ruelmashi1121 I think Arabic bible already used Yeshua. Not Isa. I live in an islam majority country btw. In our bible we use Allah, but for Jesus we use name that close to Greek. Not Isa.
Thank you Dr.j.Smith & Mel. Through you may be the world know true history of Muhammed & islam. Please continue with solid evidence from history."kudos".👏
It is getting really interesting. I am also amazed by what Lloyd de Jongh is sharing from his research on the Sharia in his channel. The counterfeit religion, the carefully constructed and preserved grand edifice of cards, is tottering more and more with all the embarrassing evidences. Titus 1:14: "Not paying attention to Jewish myths and the commandments of men who turn away from the truth." This Scripture verse, I think, has been fulfilled in the subsequent centuries many times over. The Jewish myths might first have been the seed of the Gnostic mythologies. And now it seems it is also the vile hidden root of this religion of borrowed myths and one largely based on Gnosticism that primarily employed physical means to try to understand the spiritual world and to communicate with God and the things in the spiritual realm. The Sharia law is merely the commandments of men ... based on myths.
@@AlphaOmega888 6th century Justinian the Great tried to restore the Roman Empire. The 5th Ecumenical council tried to unite Christendom Code of Justinian to give a unified law Notice: In Islam the attempt to have a simple one god one law one ruler Would love to discuss this more Blessings.
@@jamessheffield4173 "Notice: In Islam the attempt to have a simple one god one law one ruler" -Rom 1:7, Mt 16:18, Lk 14:15, Jn 10:16 Eph 4:4-6 *ONE CALLING,* ONE SHEPHERD, ONE FLOCK, ONE BODY, ONE SPIRIT, ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD, *ONE CHURCH,* AND *ONE KINGDOM* -As I said though, it's a hard question to confront.
@@AlphaOmega888 I agree with the Biblical principles of unity, but for the people of the 6th century they had lost the Pax Romana and Christianity was divided into various churches; so why not create an empire by force. A temptation we all face. Enjoying your comments. God bless.
The 3 books I found hugely helpful are: Robert Hoyland's In God's Path, Robert Spencer's Did Muhammad exist? and Stephen J Shoemaker's Death of a Prophet. I would read Robert Spencer's first as it gives a wonderful overview of a wide range of material.
mel looks different today in this video with his very imposing moustache, nice. Hello guys I look forward dr. Smith and Mel's team work, very informative and it seems correct truth can not be cover forever, as it says even the stones and wood will speak truth if we search for and that is Mel's team is working and unveiling the truth of middle East. God is using you and your team to expose false of islam and people say conspiracy theory.., like Dr. Smith I just adore his speak.
Didn’t the Byzantine capital of Constantinople go through iconoclast crisis’s in 8th and 9th century and didn’t Justinian’s cleric believe in Arianism ( that Jesus was not divine)
If the first written record of the life and times of George Washington appeared in the mid-1900s, would you believe he really was an historical figure?
Iesou, Iesu, Iesa (transliteration from Latin), Jesu, Jesus - All transliterations. 'Ya-Ho-Shu-a is just fabrications and fables from cults who have an agenda that I cant get into. The Bible prophecies that people would turn to another name of Jesus. Jesus name is something we need to believe in. All thats happening is people are rejecting it because they are under the spell of another agenda.
@@samuelsarbah3050 Mel already has a fair amount of material on the issue of calling Jesus Isa. Some Gnostic Christians who used Aramaic did this. Search for Mani on Sneakers Corner. The Arabic of the Quran is close to Nabataean Arabic, which was influenced by Abrahamists and the Syriac Orthodox, Gnostic, and Jewish liturgical use of Aramaic. SC conjectures that the reason parts of the Quran announce that they are in clear Arabic is because they were translated from Aramaic.
Jay you really need to hook up with the Christian Prince who as you may or may not be aware is taking Islam apart by using the Qurans own words. He regularly has Muslims leaving Islam when they come on to put an argument forward for Islam. I know he would be up for it because I have also suggested he do likewise with yourself and he has responded favourably. 1:19 You were warning Christians about being drawn into discussion about the more salacious stories surrounding Muhammad in fear of Muslims firing back with stories about Jesus in his youth? The Bible has never claimed to be the word of God where every single word and is the exactly as it was spoken by an Angel though is it? No it was written by mere mortals. So if Muslims believe the Quran to be this perfect book from God then surely these salacious fact about the messenger must be 100% accurate? So therefore you should not shy away from confronting what are absolutely horrendous practices by a person whom they believe to be perfect in every way and this is why I feel you need to hook up with the Christian Prince because it is exactly this approach that has him convincing Muslims to Leave this Cult in numbers. The Quran has nowhere to hide of you know exactly what it is saying as you well know. Their own Book “from God” rips their own belief to shreds once they realise it contradicts not only itself but also known scientific fact allover the place.
I would like to defend David's technique from a different angle which he never thought of and it goes like this: if someone walks up to me with a tonne of evidence saying that the Jesus never lived (God forbid!), would I as a Christian even be willing to buy that?. I know that I would not even if I am given all the evidence in the world against my beliefs, what would make a devout muslim ever want to reason like a logical person or an atheist as to why the skeptical position would be correct and to choose to go with the evidence?, I know that most muslims are like myself with regard to the level of conviction arising from their faith in their beliefs which requires no evidence or factual proof to go with anything especially if it denies the existence of their man. David on the other hand takes the path of the muslim traveller, goes with his sources and shows him the evil of Mmd, quran and islam and then brings in the Gospel of Jesus Christ because I know that the vast majority of muslims would choose that path and not be skeptical of what they believe in since faith requires no evidence. Your technique may work well with Western muslims who have that Western mindset of going with evidence but may not be that effective with muslims from islamic countries because islam is an Eastern worldview and culturally , people from Asia just believe in whatever they grow up in and do not bring in logic into their beliefs in God. So David's path is the better path to take to bring the Gospel to them though yours is more compelling and more interesting with the evidence that you have presented.
Everything in Islam is questionable why do they so much believe on oral tradition but then still have documented work coming later. The period they rely heavily on oral tradition is the period that is questionable the most. Muslims can open their eyes, ask questions or keep quiet and follow blindly.
I love your work guys, but saying that all hadith collectors aren't from Arabia is simply not accurate. Imam Malik( 711-795 CE) is from Madina and his hadith book(Muwatta ) as is popular as the other six books and has over 1700 hadith in it. In fact his book is a source for all six non arab hadith collectors. there is also ʿAbd al-Razzāq al-Sanʿānī(744-826CE)from Yemen and his hadith collection is called Musanaf which has 19.202 hadith. just like Malik this book is one of the sources for the sic non arabian hadith books. I mean unless you guys think Malik and Abd al Razaq are made up characters and their famous books are made up too. That would be a bit much.
When one is confronted by a timeline and you see what is connected to what causing the assemblage of the full picture come to the fore making the veil of deceptions to be pulled back and the reality of past becomes clear. With this view all the has been held as reality breaks into confetti and like a handful of sand leaves ones grasp. Another aspect of this form of religion is made clear it is not just two centers of power but three Caliph, Shia and the judges with their schools of thought that stir the conflict between them as they add to the amalgamation of borrowed beliefs cooked up in desert fevered brains into a means that nearly 1.5 billion people can live in and get by without really knowing the reality of the Creator, the Word and the life force Breath of Elohim/YWHW/Ruhah who claims those who are His Kin, by adoption or descendancy, in the reality of the covenants He maintains. The more information brought to light the greater the effort to defend comes out and the weaker their arguments become. They will be reduced to saying Take my class and I will explain it to you. Their iron rice bowl will be broken shortly after that. Truth with Freedom = Redeemed.
I think it is great that you are showing that the Mohammed of islamic belief is an amalgam , that is a mixture of different elements. Didn't Al Kindy state, back over 1000 years ago, that the koran was not written by a single individual?
The angels gather upto the heavens for anyone who reads the hadith teaching in a gathering. Whoever does not trim his mustache, he is not from one of us Hadith أَخْبَرَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا عَبِيدَةُ بْنُ حُمَيْدٍ، عَنْ يُوسُفَ بْنِ صُهَيْبٍ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَرْقَمَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مَنْ لَمْ يَأْخُذْ شَارِبَهُ فَلَيْسَ مِنَّا " It was narrated that Zaid bin Arqam said: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Whoever does not trim his mustache, he is not from one of us.'" Sahih (Darussalam) Sunan an-Nasa'i 13 Arabic/English book : Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 13 Sunan an-Nasai Get Hadith Collection (All in one) App:goo.gl/8j06i9 #GreentechApps #Hadith
As for the debate - David had not spent the last 6 months listening to your discussions and presentations as to simply say “conspiracy” shows his closed minded attitude which is a shame. He lost a follower !
Hopefully David will see the value of this research in the future. If only he emphasised that the hadith might not be true, then it would help a lot in helping Muslims see that it not only is nonsense but that it likely never happened either.
Think about the strategy David used...his focus is different from Jay's and Sneakers...employing the "foil hat" and similar rhetoric gets people emotionally charged and gets them curious about Sneakers' and Jay's evidence. I am certain (based on some information I cannot disclose in this context) that David has and will continue to learn and accept the historical info but will continue the strategy as it is extremely useful in exposing and destroying Islam. Consider that some Muslims are excited that David and Jay are "fighting," are watching all the latest videos to see who says what against the opposing debater and are encouraging fellow Muslims to watch "the Christians attacking each other" for themselves. A few days after the Jay and David debate, I was in a store whose customers are nearly all Muslim. Imagine my delight when I heard 2 Muslim women ridiculing the "fight" and one of them asking another person in line if they had seen the videos wherein the "Christians themselves are going to destroy Christianity by this fighting and blaspheming against allah and the prophet, pbuh."
And cultural relativism/multiculturalism will easily ignore the truth. Even though Christ is true toScriptures and has evidence in history, Christianity isn’t prevailing well in this world.
Surely most modern Muslims follow the 9th century Muhammad of the Hadith rather than the real Muhammad. This is a good reason to attack the 9th century Muhammad. Did the real Muhammad make any claim to be a prophet? Did he promote any religion, even if he never claimed it as a personal revelation? What was his religion? I don't know!
Maybe on "Christianity" as it is a religion with many manifestations. However, do not confuse that which is falable with the Bible, which Jay believes is the inspired Word of the One True God.
That has already happened in the 19th century with German historicism and what not :) Christianity has far more manuscript and archaeological backing than Islam...
Dan Gipson just introduced a block buster video disputing your conclusion. Please go see it. This is Avery strong video in favor of David woods side. Boy it’s getting hot
No it's not. Mark of the Beast is 1) a mark 2) which you take in your forehead or arm 3) introduced after the final Antichrist's rise into power, and 4) when you take it you declare your loyalty to the Antichrist. Besides, when the mark is being dealt out, there will be an angel flying on the sky telling people not to take the mark.
So Mel is assuming Ibn Ishaq existed. How does he know he existed and wasn't made up as well? He sounds like a legendary quack. You could have an unending chain of made up scholars that point to no source.
@@Speakers154 The Birmingham quran was 568 AD - 645 AD. So you have go back before 773 to date your history. What is the point of the Caliphs writing a book without the man? The earliest Qu'rans were not the 9th and 10 century. How do you explain the holes in the story?
@@501Mobius In a new video which will air on my channel on Sunday 29th of November, I will address all of this with the help of a French scholar Odon Lafontaine.
@@oaktree2406 Those are just stories from Abbassids. The real problems are: a) Qiraats & Quran variants (30+) b) Early qiblas facing Petra. c) No city of Mecca till 700 CE. d) Coins dont show any signs of Islam till Abd Al Malik. (Muawiya is holding a cross).
I'm not sure why you're so close with the atheist Mel. He blasphemes Jesus. Just because he attacks Islam is no reason to rub shoulders with him. Just my 2 cents.
I have no idea where you got the idea that I'm an atheist from. I am a Christian. I've never ever doubted the existence of God. I put all of this energy into this work precisely because of my faith in God. I'd appreciate it if you have the decency to retract that. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
@@Speakers154 Hi Mel, great work and compelling. I was surprised to hear you were an atheist!...people do say some odd things eh. Keep trucking for Jesus brother!
Because Jesus does not come from Old Testament traditions. Jesus comes from Indian Buddhism. Trinity is a common theme in India. Buddhism has Trinity: Buddha, Dharma & Sanga Hinduism has Trinity: Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva.
Movember Mel ! Keep up the quest for true history - God Bless All
Exactly, glad someone realised it was Movember. Thanks!
Dr. Smith, would you be willing or able to unpack some of the points that Emmet Scott raises in his book, "The Impact of Islam", on your channel? His book, along with Dr. Robert Spencer's book, "Did Muhammad Exist?", got me tuned into the whole field of the historicity of the "prophet" of Islam, and was instrumental in shaping my view that he was largely a composite creation. But his book was published back in 2014 and your subsequent research really fills in a lot of gaps and holes that existed in his conclusions in the Appendix of that book. I would really be interested in hearing what you, Murad, and Mel have to say about the ideas that he raised in the book with respect to the uncanny similarities between the heretical Gnostic Ebionite doctrines, and early Islamic doctrines.
Thank you again, sir, for your amazing work in this field of Christian polemics. You are an inspiration and a treasure to more people than you could possibly know. Thanks to YOU, and YOUR ministry, I finally have the intellectual framework and facts as a Christian to confront Islam with reason AND faith.
2021 let’s form a course on a teachable style site. It would make it easy for newcomers to follow the line of evidence based learning that you consistently put out. I’ll be the first to pay you guys 👍
That's a great idea. Maybe someone would like to take that on with a passion for that. I honestly think I will have at least another 6 months of discoveries before I run out of new material. The area is so vast.
The argument of the competing or conflicting hadiths is very compelling...thanks.
The traditional account says that early Muslims immigrated to Eithiopia. It makes me wonder if their are any Ethiopian records of this exchange.
I have never heard about that. Would you be able to provide a reference, please? I am curious to see where that is attested in the traditions.
@@TheDidacticMind I’ve read at least a half dozen biographies of the life of Mohammed. But recently I was looking at the table of contents of “The Life of Mohammed” by A. Guillaume (which is a translation of “The Life of Mohammed” that is the oldest most trusted source according to conventional/traditional Islamic orthodoxy) which has entries referencing the fate of a party of early muslims who immigrated to Ethiopia seeking protection under the king of Ethiopia at a time when muslims were being persecuted in Mecca - this was before the Medina period. However, the story is told in multiple sources. What it implies is that these people did not have enough relatives of caste to protect them - because Mecca was under the law of kin-based-vengeance (this system protected Mohammed as his uncle had declared him under his protection; so murdering Mohammed would release a hatfields vs McCoy’s type of feud.) The story goes that Mecca sent a party to Ethiopia asking for the release of these people in their custody, but the King of Ethiopia, was persuaded that their religion was similar enough to his own that they justified his protection and so he did not release them to the Meccans. I believe the story goes that later they either returned to Mecca or returned to Medina after Mohammed had moved up there.It’s been a while since I read that story.
My own feeling is that something/someone suddenly caused Arabian coalescence at a time when the metropolitan empires were still suffering/recovering from both plague & famine (beginning in 535). Plague by the way is why Mohammed would have been given to bedouins in his infancy - as towns were much vulnerable to plague than the nomadic beduoins were and as a result this shifted a population advantage to the Arabs vis-a-vis the Byzantines & Sassanians but they still needed a cohesive agent to draw them together and Islam provides that - it emphasizes one-ness in almost everything. The traditional account makes sense in every way but Geography (and maybe demography).
Patricia Crone did an amazing work. Really kudos to her! 👍
Jay,
I think you mentioned that Patricia Crone was the person who found that there are no mentions of Mecca till 740s. But, you thought she missed that Mecca was closer to Harran (based on first reference). I don't think she missed it. I think she was smart and realized that
a) trying to show that early Mecca is closer to Harran would be a great challenge. (And defending that position would be very hard).
b) Totally unnecessay to the main point that mecca was non-existent before 700 CE.
Yea, great work by Patricia Crone!
And thank you, Jay, for bringing her work to all of us (unwashed illiterate masses...) 😊
I’ve been a big fan of David Wood for a long time and I love his material, but I gotta go with Jay Smith on this one as he’s working with actual historical evidence and material.
Mel really comes up with the facts and speaks a lot of sense. His story of islam makes a lot more sense than islams own and explains a lot of anomalies about that story.
Absolutely breathtaking, thanks so much guys. Like the tache Mell!
Jay, a suggestion to all debaters; while 1 person at the other end is talking n you want to say or deny his/her statement but you r suppose to not to interfere you may hold few ready made written board with words like, "object, not true, lie, prove it etc" these single words will give great impact try it.
How can a sheep eat an animal's well worked on hard dried skin ?
Jay and Mel. As a Christian and a westerner, I always assumed that the Second Coming of Christ was metaphorical. We used to say "the marvels of modern science". But maybe the Internet is truly a creation of God. The internet brings us the truth, and Christ is the Truth, and the light, the light of men. So maybe the Second Coming is nigh?
Brother Mele you have to make the Arabic audience access to this knowledge in arabic I see there is a parallel lines in english and there is arabic but they really haven't met enough they need to meet its urgent and vital thank you bro
I would love if someone would take it on. Murad can't for fear of being identified.
I grew up reading about the adventures of HMS Wind Rhode, a destroyer in WWII. Amazing stories and very popular. The author wrote more and more books and someone pointed out that for a single vessel to experience all those things, the war would have to have been 10 years long. How does the hadiths fare at a similar examination? If the hadiths all cover events which happened during the 23 years of the alleged revelations, just how many hadiths were produced on an average month? If the number of unique hadiths are estimated from at least 4000 that mean 14 each month. That would be like making a facebook update worthy of safekeeping for eternity every second day for 23 years. Is that reasonable given the content? An honest question. It could be as far as I know. I just wanted to put it out there.
Thank you guys, this is a huge public service,
What is interesting is that apparently no salaried "Theologians" from any universities from any traditions Christian/Muslim/Secular or otherwise are entering into this debate. Why is that? In fairness to YQ at least he is daring to enter the discussion. There again he does not have much choice as he created it in the first place. One fears that the likes of John Wansbough and Patricia Crone and their companions would be drummed well "out of the brownies" with dishonorable discharges if they were to offer their groundbreaking work today 4 decades after they originally set the course. Who is funding our principal academic institutions today and where is the intellectual credibility. Either Jay, Mel, David, Brubacker, and all their ilk are "Off the wall" pedalling "pulp fiction" like John Allegro, and need to be held to account or they are onto something. Meanwhile our most credible institutions are declining to participate in what is perhaps the watershed moment in Islam similar to 1517, and all for reasons of "Political" and Economic Correctness, in which case academia is over (which it probably is anyway)! "To your tents, Israel!" 1Kings12:16 (BD.Akc MA SOAS)
New to this. Wondering what Mel's TH-cam site was called so I can watch more videos.
Please read Bernard Weiss’ “The Spirit of Islamic Law”, Weiss, I believe only recently passed away, was a legal scholar. This book is an explanation of Islamic jurisprudence. Also the law of Byzantium was revised by Justinian in 535, it was the most sophisticated system of law ever created to that date. The Europeans found copies of this law near Ravenna and that led to the creation of the university of Bologna, from there Justinian’s law spread throughout Europe and lead to the creation of Universities all over Europe for the spread of law. It was only revised when Napoleon came along.
Should compare the two laws.
The theory on Nasara that resonates most with me is from the root ن ص ر (n S r) “helper” since in the following ayah the hawaryoon ( fishermen?) are called AnSar.(pl. helpers)
فَلَمَّاۤ اَحَسَّ عِيۡسٰى مِنۡهُمُ الۡكُفۡرَ قَالَ مَنۡ اَنۡصَارِىۡۤ اِلَى اللّٰهِؕ قَالَ الۡحَـوَارِيُّوۡنَ نَحۡنُ اَنۡصَارُ اللّٰهِۚ اٰمَنَّا بِاللّٰهِۚ وَاشۡهَدۡ بِاَنَّا مُسۡلِمُوۡنَ
Fanstatic Jay and Mel. Thank U
*What about the grave of the Prophet Muhammad? Who's actually laying there?*
Yep!
There r no any human bones in the grave,just symbolic.
Fascinating stuff, well done gents. I suppose the ultimate test is the fruit that comes forth from what we believe in, from what I’ve experienced of Islam it’s fruit is death, deceit and destruction.
I think the Arabic version of the bible needs to eliminate Allah, Isah and other
It should include the real names like YHWH, Yeshua etc
From historical point of view, there is no problem using Allah in bible. Historical evidences show Allah has been used by people in Arab prior to Islam. The problem is that Islam tries to Islamicize everything from history, geography, names, even forcing them to other religion's theology to justify its theological claims.
For example, they claim that all prophets are muslims, despite all archaeological evidences. Even some tafseers claimed that Sidharta Gautama is also a muslim.
@@AgustianesUmbaraSuwardi i concur with your view of retaining the name Allah, however i would go with the suggestion of changing the name from Isa to Yeshua which has no founding in the Arabic usage.
Lol YHWH is a real name? lol.. wow.
@@AlphaOmega888 *Is Allah the name of your god* ?
@@ruelmashi1121 I think Arabic bible already used Yeshua. Not Isa. I live in an islam majority country btw. In our bible we use Allah, but for Jesus we use name that close to Greek. Not Isa.
Great job Mel! God Bless you!!!
Thanks Ron!
How do we get all your information into the Islamic community
Thank you Dr.j.Smith & Mel. Through you may be the world know true history of Muhammed & islam. Please continue with solid evidence from history."kudos".👏
It is getting really interesting. I am also amazed by what Lloyd de Jongh is sharing from his research on the Sharia in his channel. The counterfeit religion, the carefully constructed and preserved grand edifice of cards, is tottering more and more with all the embarrassing evidences. Titus 1:14: "Not paying attention to Jewish myths and the commandments of men who turn away from the truth." This Scripture verse, I think, has been fulfilled in the subsequent centuries many times over. The Jewish myths might first have been the seed of the Gnostic mythologies. And now it seems it is also the vile hidden root of this religion of borrowed myths and one largely based on Gnosticism that primarily employed physical means to try to understand the spiritual world and to communicate with God and the things in the spiritual realm. The Sharia law is merely the commandments of men ... based on myths.
When I look at the 6th century, I see the problems that produced Islam. Blessings.
Rebellion from Rome? Look at the Hagia Sofia today. Look at the Vatican today. Whose side is God on? Tough question to confront eh?
@@AlphaOmega888 6th century Justinian the Great tried to restore the Roman Empire. The 5th Ecumenical council tried to unite Christendom Code of Justinian to give a unified law Notice: In Islam the attempt to have a simple one god one law one ruler Would love to discuss this more Blessings.
@@jamessheffield4173 "Notice: In Islam the attempt to have a simple one god one law one ruler"
-Rom 1:7, Mt 16:18, Lk 14:15, Jn 10:16 Eph 4:4-6 *ONE CALLING,* ONE SHEPHERD, ONE FLOCK, ONE BODY, ONE SPIRIT, ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD, *ONE CHURCH,* AND *ONE KINGDOM*
-As I said though, it's a hard question to confront.
@@AlphaOmega888 I agree with the Biblical principles of unity, but for the people of the 6th century they had lost the Pax Romana and Christianity was divided into various churches; so why not create an empire by force. A temptation we all face. Enjoying your comments. God bless.
What books do I need to read to get some grip on this?
Where do I have more sources to research this?
The 3 books I found hugely helpful are: Robert Hoyland's In God's Path, Robert Spencer's Did Muhammad exist? and Stephen J Shoemaker's Death of a Prophet. I would read Robert Spencer's first as it gives a wonderful overview of a wide range of material.
Dr. Jay, can I download your videos so I can translate them?
mel looks different today in this video with his very imposing moustache, nice.
Hello guys I look forward dr. Smith and Mel's team work, very informative and it seems correct truth can not be cover forever, as it says even the stones and wood will speak truth if we search for and that is Mel's team is working and unveiling the truth of middle East. God is using you and your team to expose false of islam and people say conspiracy theory.., like Dr. Smith I just adore his speak.
Many mosques even Azher have Star of David on the qibla and wall s
INĀRAH is a Germany-based academic project with several books published about the Early Islam. You will tons from them if you get in touch with them.
site please
Didn’t the Byzantine capital of Constantinople go through iconoclast crisis’s in 8th and 9th century and didn’t Justinian’s cleric believe in Arianism ( that Jesus was not divine)
As a Muslim, I found these arguments are very powerful
If the first written record of the life and times of George Washington appeared in the mid-1900s, would you believe he really was an historical figure?
Jay, Dan Gibson asserted that the Arabic name of Jesus isn't Isah but something close to the Greek name Yeshua
Can Mel delve into that for us?
Isa in arabic is taken from syriac Isoo. Quran was influenced by syriac christian communities and literature.
Iesou, Iesu, Iesa (transliteration from Latin), Jesu, Jesus - All transliterations. 'Ya-Ho-Shu-a is just fabrications and fables from cults who have an agenda that I cant get into. The Bible prophecies that people would turn to another name of Jesus. Jesus name is something we need to believe in. All thats happening is people are rejecting it because they are under the spell of another agenda.
@@AgustianesUmbaraSuwardi But we're talking about Arabic?
@@samuelsarbah3050 Mel already has a fair amount of material on the issue of calling Jesus Isa. Some Gnostic Christians who used Aramaic did this. Search for Mani on Sneakers Corner. The Arabic of the Quran is close to Nabataean Arabic, which was influenced by Abrahamists and the Syriac Orthodox, Gnostic, and Jewish liturgical use of Aramaic. SC conjectures that the reason parts of the Quran announce that they are in clear Arabic is because they were translated from Aramaic.
There is no Greek name Yeshua .. Its Hebrew
Jay you really need to hook up with the Christian Prince who as you may or may not be aware is taking Islam apart by using the Qurans own words.
He regularly has Muslims leaving Islam when they come on to put an argument forward for Islam.
I know he would be up for it because I have also suggested he do likewise with yourself and he has responded favourably.
1:19 You were warning Christians about being drawn into discussion about the more salacious stories surrounding Muhammad in fear of Muslims firing back with stories about Jesus in his youth?
The Bible has never claimed to be the word of God where every single word and is the exactly as it was spoken by an Angel though is it?
No it was written by mere mortals.
So if Muslims believe the Quran to be this perfect book from God then surely these salacious fact about the messenger must be 100% accurate?
So therefore you should not shy away from confronting what are absolutely horrendous practices by a person whom they believe to be perfect in every way and this is why I feel you need to hook up with the Christian Prince because it is exactly this approach that has him convincing Muslims to Leave this Cult in numbers.
The Quran has nowhere to hide of you know exactly what it is saying as you well know.
Their own Book “from God” rips their own belief to shreds once they realise it contradicts not only itself but also known scientific fact allover the place.
I would like to defend David's technique from a different angle which he never thought of and it goes like this: if someone walks up to me with a tonne of evidence saying that the Jesus never lived (God forbid!), would I as a Christian even be willing to buy that?. I know that I would not even if I am given all the evidence in the world against my beliefs, what would make a devout muslim ever want to reason like a logical person or an atheist as to why the skeptical position would be correct and to choose to go with the evidence?, I know that most muslims are like myself with regard to the level of conviction arising from their faith in their beliefs which requires no evidence or factual proof to go with anything especially if it denies the existence of their man.
David on the other hand takes the path of the muslim traveller, goes with his sources and shows him the evil of Mmd, quran and islam and then brings in the Gospel of Jesus Christ because I know that the vast majority of muslims would choose that path and not be skeptical of what they believe in since faith requires no evidence. Your technique may work well with Western muslims who have that Western mindset of going with evidence but may not be that effective with muslims from islamic countries because islam is an Eastern worldview and culturally , people from Asia just believe in whatever they grow up in and do not bring in logic into their beliefs in God. So David's path is the better path to take to bring the Gospel to them though yours is more compelling and more interesting with the evidence that you have presented.
that Jesus*, beliefs about God*
WHAT A MUSTACH ...HA HA HA ...
lol. It is for charity. Itchy ole thing. Can't wait to shave it off!
@@Speakers154 Well done than ...hope u well . bye
Everything in Islam is questionable why do they so much believe on oral tradition but then still have documented work coming later. The period they rely heavily on oral tradition is the period that is questionable the most. Muslims can open their eyes, ask questions or keep quiet and follow blindly.
I love your work guys, but saying that all hadith collectors aren't from Arabia is simply not accurate. Imam Malik( 711-795 CE) is from Madina and his hadith book(Muwatta ) as is popular as the other six books and has over 1700 hadith in it. In fact his book is a source for all six non arab hadith collectors.
there is also ʿAbd al-Razzāq al-Sanʿānī(744-826CE)from Yemen and his hadith collection is called Musanaf which has 19.202 hadith. just like Malik this book is one of the sources for the sic non arabian hadith books.
I mean unless you guys think Malik and Abd al Razaq are made up characters and their famous books are made up too. That would be a bit much.
When one is confronted by a timeline and you see what is connected to what causing the assemblage of the full picture come to the fore making the veil of deceptions to be pulled back and the reality of past becomes clear. With this view all the has been held as reality breaks into confetti and like a handful of sand leaves ones grasp. Another aspect of this form of religion is made clear it is not just two centers of power but three Caliph, Shia and the judges with their schools of thought that stir the conflict between them as they add to the amalgamation of borrowed beliefs cooked up in desert fevered brains into a means that nearly 1.5 billion people can live in and get by without really knowing the reality of the Creator, the Word and the life force Breath of Elohim/YWHW/Ruhah who claims those who are His Kin, by adoption or descendancy, in the reality of the covenants He maintains. The more information brought to light the greater the effort to defend comes out and the weaker their arguments become. They will be reduced to saying Take my class and I will explain it to you. Their iron rice bowl will be broken shortly after that. Truth with Freedom = Redeemed.
You haven't read Bart Ehrman et al?
There's something distinctly different about Mel. Can't put my finger on it??? 🤔🤔
The porn stash ....? Lol 😂
@@mitchpeter5718 lol
I think it is great that you are showing that the Mohammed of islamic belief is an amalgam
, that is a mixture of different elements. Didn't Al Kindy state, back over 1000 years ago, that the koran was not written by a single individual?
Something that Muslims always come back to me on is that there is Mohammed’s grave/tomb, what is the reality of that grave/tomb please?
From islam source! No "HIKMMA" only "TAQIYA".They can make anything to show you even inside current "kabba".😆
The angels gather upto the heavens for anyone who reads the hadith teaching in a gathering.
Whoever does not trim his mustache, he is not from one of us
Hadith
أَخْبَرَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا عَبِيدَةُ بْنُ حُمَيْدٍ، عَنْ يُوسُفَ بْنِ صُهَيْبٍ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَرْقَمَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم
مَنْ لَمْ يَأْخُذْ شَارِبَهُ فَلَيْسَ مِنَّا "
It was narrated that Zaid bin Arqam said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Whoever does not trim his mustache, he is not from one of us.'"
Sahih (Darussalam)
Sunan an-Nasa'i 13
Arabic/English book : Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 13
Sunan an-Nasai
Get Hadith Collection (All in one) App:goo.gl/8j06i9
#GreentechApps #Hadith
So they were embellishing Muhammad to try to elevate him (though unsuccessfully) to the level of Jesus
'None of the Hadith writers were from Arabia' What?!
Good job
I like you Mel but you look like a bold Freddie Mercury with that mustache haha. If you and your wife like it then fair play. Go Myth Busters
👍great Video👍
As for the debate - David had not spent the last 6 months listening to your discussions and presentations as to simply say “conspiracy” shows his closed minded attitude which is a shame. He lost a follower !
Hopefully David will see the value of this research in the future. If only he emphasised that the hadith might not be true, then it would help a lot in helping Muslims see that it not only is nonsense but that it likely never happened either.
Think about the strategy David used...his focus is different from Jay's and Sneakers...employing the "foil hat" and similar rhetoric gets people emotionally charged and gets them curious about Sneakers' and Jay's evidence. I am certain (based on some information I cannot disclose in this context) that David has and will continue to learn and accept the historical info but will continue the strategy as it is extremely useful in exposing and destroying Islam. Consider that some Muslims are excited that David and Jay are "fighting," are watching all the latest videos to see who says what against the opposing debater and are encouraging fellow Muslims to watch "the Christians attacking each other" for themselves. A few days after the Jay and David debate, I was in a store whose customers are nearly all Muslim. Imagine my delight when I heard 2 Muslim women ridiculing the "fight" and one of them asking another person in line if they had seen the videos wherein the "Christians themselves are going to destroy Christianity by this fighting and blaspheming against allah and the prophet, pbuh."
St. John of Damascus’s Critique of Islam called Muhammad a false prophet
And cultural relativism/multiculturalism will easily ignore the truth. Even though Christ is true toScriptures and has evidence in history, Christianity isn’t prevailing well in this world.
The first 10 minutes are preamble. FWIW.
Yawa is a hint of the name of God. If I read yawa I will use, ha sham meaning The Name or Adonai meaning lord, Jesus is our Lord
Yazid, the man who nearly wiped all my ancestors off the face of the earth, was agreeable?
MEL JAY MYTHBOMBERS
Surely most modern Muslims follow the 9th century Muhammad of the Hadith rather than the real Muhammad. This is a good reason to attack the 9th century Muhammad. Did the real Muhammad make any claim to be a prophet? Did he promote any religion, even if he never claimed it as a personal revelation? What was his religion? I don't know!
Should Jay turn his critical eye on Christianity as well, many myths will crumble.
Maybe on "Christianity" as it is a religion with many manifestations.
However, do not confuse that which is falable with the Bible, which Jay believes is the inspired Word of the One True God.
That has already happened in the 19th century with German historicism and what not :) Christianity has far more manuscript and archaeological backing than Islam...
Unless you are referring to the heretical sect of Rome who have created a cardhouse of fables....
Sorry, is Mel a scholar?
Can, copy paste the law. There you have the law to control the muslim.
Dan Gipson just introduced a block buster video disputing your conclusion. Please go see it. This is Avery strong video in favor of David woods side. Boy it’s getting hot
Nice Mossi Mel.
You destroyed David Wood just like Spencer during your debate. 😄
Wondering is wearing a mask the mark of the beast?
No it's not. Mark of the Beast is 1) a mark 2) which you take in your forehead or arm 3) introduced after the final Antichrist's rise into power, and 4) when you take it you declare your loyalty to the Antichrist. Besides, when the mark is being dealt out, there will be an angel flying on the sky telling people not to take the mark.
Islam busters
So Mel is assuming Ibn Ishaq existed. How does he know he existed and wasn't made up as well?
He sounds like a legendary quack. You could have an unending chain of made up scholars that point to no source.
It is a fair point. I haven't found reason yet to doubt his existence, especially as he referenced by others but that is open to question indeed.
@@Speakers154 The Birmingham quran was 568 AD - 645 AD. So you have go back before 773 to date your history. What is the point of the Caliphs writing a book without the man? The earliest Qu'rans were not the 9th and 10 century. How do you explain the holes in the story?
@@501Mobius In a new video which will air on my channel on Sunday 29th of November, I will address all of this with the help of a French scholar Odon Lafontaine.
Jay time is getting short God knows what's in your mind and heart don't spoil yourself
What like Mohammed (police be upon him) spoiled himself with semen on his clothes that his child bride Aisha had to wash off?
LoL!
Jay is showing you the origins of your religion. You should thank him for the service...
@@oaktree2406 Those are just stories from Abbassids.
The real problems are:
a) Qiraats & Quran variants (30+)
b) Early qiblas facing Petra.
c) No city of Mecca till 700 CE.
d) Coins dont show any signs of Islam till Abd Al Malik. (Muawiya is holding a cross).
The reality is hurting you. Why don’t Muslims build arguments to rebut what is being said. Where is your evidence?
See (Emanuel miracle tv josuva )
I'm not sure why you're so close with the atheist Mel. He blasphemes Jesus.
Just because he attacks Islam is no reason to rub shoulders with him.
Just my 2 cents.
I have no idea where you got the idea that I'm an atheist from. I am a Christian. I've never ever doubted the existence of God. I put all of this energy into this work precisely because of my faith in God. I'd appreciate it if you have the decency to retract that. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
@@Speakers154 Hi Mel, great work and compelling. I was surprised to hear you were an atheist!...people do say some odd things eh.
Keep trucking for Jesus brother!
Jesus is not God. No prophets before Jesus existence knew of a trinity or the name of Jesus and worshipped God Alone. People wake up
Prophet Isaiah prophesied Jesus
@Talo S OK heretic
Because Jesus does not come from Old Testament traditions. Jesus comes from Indian Buddhism. Trinity is a common theme in India.
Buddhism has Trinity: Buddha, Dharma & Sanga
Hinduism has Trinity: Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva.
@@trira1171 Learn to read.
@@TheDidacticMind You should learn to debate properly without attacking others. Attacking me does not prove anything.