Very nice video. As a retired lifelong machinist/welder, I never fail to learn new tricks, and maybe old ones, I'd forgotten. Thank you, Mr. Fenner, for being a great communicator. Would that I had someone like you, to learn from, when I was a young operator.
I am 71 and have been messing around with cars and trucks since I was 16, I would never modify a consumable part. The machine work, however, is top notch.
I don't understand what "consumable parts " you are referring to? Certainly not these motor mounts! Hot rodders build custom mounts every day! That's part of the fun of it.
Rubber mounts fail frequently, esp. under "hot rod" conditions. I modified the mounts in my race car, but they're solid steel. I'm assuming this project was a favor for a friend - chevy mounts are cheap and ubiquitous - he's easily got 10x the cost of the mounts in labor and materials, if not more. Still interesting to watch.
All of the "rodders" and custom car builders that I know try to not modify parts that frequently fail or normally ware out. For instance if you were building a custom brake application you would not modify the brake pads so that every time you needed to replace the pads you had to go to a machine shop to have the new pads modified. I removed the drum brakes from my c-1500 and created my own disk brake conversion basically following a commercially available kit. I had to modify my axle flanges and the new "rotors" that I used but I did not modify the calipers or brake pads.
Hi Keith,I used to weld covers for large tumblers.They had inch thick rubber for longevity. I put them in a pan in water up to the edge and welded on handles ,and filled holes from the cross bars and Jack screws to hold the cover on.It was trickey not to get shocked Ha,ha.I saved the company a lot of money and production doing that emergency repair every week.A .250 move does not seem like it would be enough clearence with rubber motor mounts that will hold up a big block.Nice job though.I love watching you weld.
hopefully they took into account and allowed for mount aging and torque flexing, if not, it wont take them long figure out as the headers and oil pan rattle and bang of everything :)
Hey Keith, here in Australia I couldn't find anyone to recondition the gearbox mount in my old Dodge. I bead blasted both plates, used waxed cardboard to make a mould between the 2 plates and used the stronger Stickaflex they use to glue windscreens in with. takes a week to set right through depending on climate and how thick you need it to be, 8 years later it's still like new, will be doing both engine mounts next. Just some useful information while we are on the subject. Cheers, Waz.
Had to weld something that had to be kept cool, like your job on these motor mounts. Just submerged the part in water with the spot to be welded above the water line, worked great. A copper backer plate also works well to draw heat away when not using the water method.
Nice work, been there done that in another way. Keith; I have a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda with headers that needed the motor lifted a 1/4" to make the tube headers clear same challenges you faced. I used a flat piece of bar stock 1/4" thick and it lifted the motor the correct amount. Still use them, they work great. May be easier than having to machine the mounts as you have done.
I like that, Come along on the journey and see what we can do. I like the idea a creative fix and Tig that weld in then finish it with K&T and a carbide cutter.
Never quench a red hot weld in water. Rapid quench turns the weld brittle as a tap. Not good with the torque that a Big Block delivers. You should have just quenched just the rubber section instead of the entire part. I have had a similar issue on a Chevelle SS and an easy way to raise the motor on the mounts is to add a few washers as shims under the flat mating surface, which bolts to the engine block. It looks like 3 bolts to the block and its done. If you want to get fancy, cut a 1/4" plate with 3 holes as a shim instead of washers. It's quite simple and as others have commented, you can then replace the motor mount without modifications. Maybe my suggestion doesn't apply here as those are not Chevy BB motor mounts. Possibly Ford Mustang..
I dont know the whole scope of the project, but it seems like it would be easier to just cut a couple pieces of flat steel whatever thickness you needed and longer bolts and raised the motor mounts instead of altering them.
As others have noted this is more solution than the problem requires. Shimming up the cchassis/frame side of the motor mounts is quick an easy and the only modefication needed would be elongating some holes with a file. Depending on the result that you need you can both lift the motor and nudge it to one side or the other with shims of different thicknesses.
G'day, Keith! I enjoyed "Making Header Room!!" (your modifying a set of motor mounts to give 1/4" more room for exhaust headers.) Love to see more... Thank you very much for the video! Cheers! :-)
Old car fabricator here... I would have rather maintained the drive train geometry by leaving the mounts where they are and modifying the pan and header. This is a lesson learned through improper alignment between the engine/transmission and the rearend way back in the 1980's. I hate having to walk back and pick up my driveshaft. Also down the road he would be able to buy a motor mount off the shelf.
A quarter of an inch will do nothing to upset the u-joint geometry. If anything, a lot of builders will make the mistake of designing a drive train that is too straight. U-joints require a certain minimum operating angle (the manufacturers publish minimum and maximum angle data) to insure the proper function of the roller bearings. If you build one too straight, you will indeed be "walking back and picking up your driveshaft"! Besides, as I said earlier in this thread, custom mounts are a fun part of any build. Use your head to design and build something!
Paul - Ideal driveshaft geometry is when the car's at rest, the pinion and trans output shaft are parallel. There's no such thing as "too straight." Spicer recommends 3 degrees or less. As long as those two are parallel to each other, and the u joints are within their angular operating range, you're fine. Moving just one or the other can cause problems, though a 1/4" is probably unnoticeable. Oh - I built my blower setup, including A/W intercooler core from scratch, as well as the EFI computer, among other things (trans, etc); the car runs 9's and is completely street driveable (click on my user name to see some of my stuff) - does that count?
if it's perfectly straight the needle bearings dont lubricate properly and over a period of time can cause premature u joint failure. more than likely a 9 second blower car receive more maintenance than a commuter car and drives thousands miles less.
I raced BB Chryslers.. Like all MOPAR guys the first thing I tried was a "Pinion Snubber" So much for the Direct Connection catalog..I wound up with a 4 bar suspension.
The angle of the powertrain is critical relative to the driveshaft angle, to the axle pinion angle. If both are exactly opposite, Vibration and centrifugal forces will not come into play. So if the engine is angled down (front to back) -5 degrees, the pinion angle must be +5 degrees. More important, if the engine mounts are rubber insulated, the transmission crossmember rubber and rear axle rubber snubbers (if used) should be of the same hardness (durometer). The same is true laterally. You can have an offset axle pinion so long as the angle at the transmission output shaft to u-joint angle equally angled. In our race cars we use solid steel engine mounts and measure axle pinion angle and transmission output shaft angles. Failure to do so is bad news as you describe. For asphalt stock cars we shoot for 3 to 3 1/2 degrees down on the pinion and up on the transmission end. The axle will twist "up" roughly 3 degrees under load. If the yoke is properly clearanced, the driveshaft angles will dynamically change equally.
A small piece of angle iron cut into a small bracket would help it not to move. Place one part under the home made clamp to catch the horizontal then vice grip the vertical so as to bridge the rubber insulator. This would make it stable and not wiggle when drilling. That is if there is enough room. Great job!
In the time you had invested moving the hole in those mounts, you could have made brand new mounts using your plasma cam to cut new plates to bolt to the motor then welding on the correct size tube to accept a couple of urethane bushings (one inserted from each end). The part that fits to the frame could also be cut on the plasma cam with the correct size ears welded on it to accept a bolt that goes through the center of the urethane bushings. Your manila envelope guide would have served well to position the frame tabs before welding them or they can be made from templates on the vehicle. Anyway, this method has served me well for a number of engine conversions and the welding can be done with the urethane removed. If you are starting from scratch, this method works great when you have the motor in the correct position in whatever frame you are using and can be tack welded in place using steel or aluminum slugs cut to the size of the urethane bushings... Thickness of the steel plates and tube depend on the engine HP and intended use i.e. street or track. However, the customer is always right, Right? lol
While I was a bit confused on all the effort for a motor mount, the part that really got me was his "Chingadareo". Every time Keith said that I had flashbacks to Happy Days and the Fonz's affair with "Pinky Tuscadero" strange how the mind works.
Just a quick suggestion, an ND filter is super handy for filming arc based welding because it cuts out the glare of the arc and the viewer can get a puddle view.
Ah, sorry, didn't see that part. I was definitely not criticizing, just a suggestion if you didn't know that was an option. As always, I very much enjoyed the video!
Keith: to make the aluminum block stay even cooler, you can make some 1/8 " wide saw cuts 1/4" apart on the bottom side. Then blow the cooling air through those cuts. Makes the block into a heat radiator. Used in electronics industry a lot. See you at Bar-Z. Jon
top notch work as usual Mr Keith, my concern is about the uniqueness of a consumable part, the motor mounts are the type of part that usually fail much before the engine so the user will have to resume the process in event of a failure
im thinking an adjustable parallel might have worked well in this drilling setup. a larger one set up to just barely push the ears apart would prevent movement due to drill pressure.
As a suggestion, what if you were to cut out a piece of copper that would create a "mold" for the outer shape of your "chingadero" ...- the part that needs to be filled .... and which would slip in on each side of your existing metal. You could then fill up the "copper mold" with weld and get the exact shape that you would need. No? Whenever I have to fill up a hole, I have some copper plates which I clamp behind the hole that needs to be filled (in the same way you used the aluminum block). This allows me to fill the hole without blowing out metal because I've got open space instead of a backing.
Excellent video so far! Wile i was sitting here watching i just got to thinking, to minimise thermal cycles, and minimise heat input, could you have just cut some discs of turned stock and fusion welded them in, same with the little ears? it would save some time on cooling everything down over and over again, i know when building up material normally that controlling heat input is a pain, i can't imagine this being any better.
To me it would seem to be easier to cut out the shapes with plasma cam and lap them into the assembly with weld. It would mean the bolt would need to be longer.
And the word today is .... Chingadareo... Chingadareo ;) Big Bird says " Wow what a great word, it can mean anything, like whatsit, widget, gizmo, or thingummy bob. Cool " "COOKIES!" shouts the cookie monster....... "No, " says Big Bird, " Chingadareo.." "COOKIES!" shouts the cookie monster....... Big Bird sighs and walks off shaking his head, mumbling under his breath. "Fucking puppets!"
You could say "A chingadero..." but that's just a circular argument, and not very helpful. My (understandably limited) knowledge has the word as "gubbins," and it was, so far as I know, an English word originally: "That gubbins on the planishing tackle there, over by the bowsing strake..." Mr Hyss tells me I missed "whatshername," but I didn't; not really. The word I used was "wossname," which is a lazy Australian way of saying the same thing. I have also seen that word rendered as "whatsaname," but I don't think the spelling is important. It's the meaning that matters, and we *all* know what that is.
Funny, for once (and only once) your postmortem described exactly what I would have done.... Maybe using wood as a support rather than aluminum. Most of the time, however, I am in awe of your skills and only wish I had a 1/10th the ability.
The point of the massive block of aluminium is to have it suck as much welding heat as possible out of the bracket, rather than have it melt the rubber. Wood would not have achieved this. I'm surprised Keith is planning to use a build-up technique: I would have thought it would be better to cut off the lugs, weld 1/4" extensions to the cut edges, and then weld them back on (less heat, easier to position the holes, no machining required). But I'm not going to back myself against Keith: I'm sure he has excellent reasons for doing it his way.
That was a great project to watch and learn from, thanks Keith. And to all the wooda, coulda, shoulda comments- bottom line is, like Frank once sang " I Did It My Way"
Keith love videos you certainly know your way around a machine shop! When you machined a snap off piece of casting with a milling machine you showed some of matching in slow motion, what was the music you played with it I would love to know so I can listen to it again please, it really moved me. Thanks mike.
We always use solid mounts when trying this trick. We also always use straps or chains to tie the motor down incase you actually snap a mount. Flexible mounts are no good for these types of high HP swaps. big blocks really like to twist when revved so you break flex mounts actually faster than solids.
You should download a dinner bell ringtone for your wifes contact ringtone. lol or record her ringing one and yelling "Babe come and get it!" Sure you could make a good dinner bell for her... Say.. thats a good idea!
I have encountered this.. especially light motor to heavy. 6cyl to v8 mostly. Always just shim, or even wait for the spring tension of the body to go back to normal once drivetrain is back in. A .25 inch tells me it is on the upside of an empty engine bay. weight will squish it to an angle. Interesting project anyway..
Something I don’t understand. A motor mount will fail over time and need to be replaced. Why not do the adjustments on the frame mounts so stock rubber mounts can be used without modifying?
I am willing to bet this is a "old school" type of street rod. The mounts and brackets are designed and built to be as clean as possible. Probably headed to the platers after machining and cleaning. The last thing you want in a custom build is a bunch of spacers or shims that look like you don't know how to measure.
A superb job as usual. That plate steel you cut the hold down from, do you pick that up yourself or do you have it delivered? If delivered, buy who? Can't be UPS...thanks for all the great videos.
ive got an old solar PV inverter heat sink its like 8mm thick about 600x400mm and has the whole back side covered in like 30mm tall fins it is gods gift dont know how i managed before its common to pick up dead cheep import inverts to gain the sink from the back of them
It would have been easier to just cut the existing ears right at the bottom of the holes, keeping the maximum of existing material, then fabricate new "extended" ears in a D shape using your plasma cam, pre-drill the holes and then weld them to the engine supports. I don't think welding the new ears would have put more heat than building up the existing ears since the welds would have been where the old holes were.
Hey Keith, what I liked is the adding to the mount with the TIG. I heard a loud flow of the argon, what was your flow rate? I am just learning TIG and was curious. I know that the mount is for a street car but I would have just used solid motor mounts. Spaghetti supper is a great reason to stop eh. God Bless Ya Dave
At 28 mins, you are blowing the weld with the air hose. Is that moisture coming out of the air line and making the spots on the weld bead? Is water in your air line going to mess up any of your tools or do you need to fix something with the drier? Do you have one of those auto water purge valves on your air tank?
AT 47:44, I HAVE THAT SAME SCREW DRIVER! IV NAMED MINE BIG BERTHA!!! IV USED IT TO PRY, SCRAPE, & EVERY NOW & THEN, TO TURN A WIDE FLAT HEAD.MINE HAS SEEN SOME ABUSE!
bore a 1/2" hole through the Al block and tap some fittings on to each side. Drop a pond pump into a 5 gal bucket with ice water in it and let that flow through the block.
I was also wondering why not just put some grade 8 washers under the mounts as shims with longer bolts-? Maybe that still wouldn't give the needed clearance in the right area, the easiest solution isn't always the best. As you said, customer request not your choice.
So it doesn't stick to the aluminum and the aluminum doesn't contaminate the weld enough to create porosity? Or are you making sure the arc doesn't touch the aluminum?
The aluminium is so massive that the heat is dissipated before it can reach its melting point, additionally the frequency of the weld for steel will more likely create aluminium oxide and draw some impurity out of the steel. The bigger issue is that the thermal gradient might cause stresses in the steel, in this case it's not important, but if it were heat treating the part would be sensible.
Did you take into account the angle of the mounts when measuring the height? I noticed you measuring and drilling while they are flat on your table. They usually mount at an angle meaning the holes on the opposite sides are now closer together. No clue what car this is going into so I am probably wrong but you know its the internet everyone is a critic. Still enjoyed watching the work!
Serious question, shouldn't you let the weld cool (at least from red hot to "not glowing") within the inert gases from the welding gun? Considering this is a motor mount I daresay it's going to experience some stress... immediately removing the shielding gas (that you pay for) and blowing it off with compressed (free) air just seems a little bass ackwards..
Learn't a lot, I have a large block of Aluminum I now know what to do with if needed.. LOL Just curious, assuming ( always a dangerous thing) that the hole was some nominal size, would an endmill of taken less pressure to poke thole holes and maybe eased the " problems" with the flexing? Cheers Keith
I didn't mean whole part, but fixtures or lug, don't know how name better those parts, which Keith had enlarge by welding. Like in comments before, Corndog 10 hours ago (edited) >I dont know the whole scope of the project, but it seems like it would be easier to just cut a couple pieces >of flat steel whatever thickness you needed and longer bolts and raised the motor mounts instead of >altering them. Стефан Парийски 14 hours ago >A few new pieces of sheet metal welded in place of the old ones would have saved a whole lot of time and welding gas... But, I propose replace those «part parts», cut new, and replace old by new. Keith told about rubber inside, which fears overheat, but those part were constructed on factory in some way…
What's a chingadero? Being a SoCal person for 65 of my 71 years, it's a common word. Chingaso was also pretty common; it means to hit hard. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chingadero
Urban dictionary for the word Chingadero. _A made-up Spanglish word used in a similar fashion to the word thingamajig. The root word in Spanish is chingar, "to f**k"_ ..lol...
Very nice video. As a retired lifelong machinist/welder, I never fail to learn new tricks, and maybe old ones, I'd forgotten. Thank you, Mr. Fenner, for being a great communicator. Would that I had someone like you, to learn from, when I was a young operator.
I am 71 and have been messing around with cars and trucks since I was 16, I would never modify a consumable part. The machine work, however, is top notch.
I don't understand what "consumable parts " you are referring to? Certainly not these motor mounts! Hot rodders build custom mounts every day! That's part of the fun of it.
Rubber mounts fail frequently, esp. under "hot rod" conditions. I modified the mounts in my race car, but they're solid steel. I'm assuming this project was a favor for a friend - chevy mounts are cheap and ubiquitous - he's easily got 10x the cost of the mounts in labor and materials, if not more. Still interesting to watch.
All of the "rodders" and custom car builders that I know try to not modify parts that frequently fail or normally ware out. For instance if you were building a custom brake application you would not modify the brake pads so that every time you needed to replace the pads you had to go to a machine shop to have the new pads modified. I removed the drum brakes from my c-1500 and created my own disk brake conversion basically following a commercially available kit. I had to modify my axle flanges and the new "rotors" that I used but I did not modify the calipers or brake pads.
Hi Keith,I used to weld covers for large tumblers.They had inch thick rubber for longevity. I put them in a pan in water up to the edge and welded on handles ,and filled holes from the cross bars and Jack screws to hold the cover on.It was trickey not to get shocked Ha,ha.I saved the company a lot of money and production doing that emergency repair every week.A .250 move does not seem like it would be enough clearence with rubber motor mounts that will hold up a big block.Nice job though.I love watching you weld.
hopefully they took into account and allowed for mount aging and torque flexing, if not, it wont take them long figure out as the headers and oil pan rattle and bang of everything :)
Such a lovely color to behold, once your eyes uncross and quit watering.
Even when you take the long way round, it still made a great video full of other possibilities.
I love all the "better ideals" and haven't even seen the problem. nice job. glad to see you back in the shop
Hey Keith, here in Australia I couldn't find anyone to recondition the gearbox mount in my old Dodge. I bead blasted both plates, used waxed cardboard to make a mould between the 2 plates and used the stronger Stickaflex they use to glue windscreens in with. takes a week to set right through depending on climate and how thick you need it to be, 8 years later it's still like new, will be doing both engine mounts next. Just some useful information while we are on the subject. Cheers, Waz.
Great idea using the aluminum block they suck heat like a bandit! In electronics we call it a heat sink Rock on
Had to weld something that had to be kept cool, like your job on these motor mounts. Just submerged the part in water with the spot to be welded above the water line, worked great. A copper backer plate also works well to draw heat away when not using the water method.
Nice work, been there done that in another way. Keith; I have a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda with headers that needed the motor lifted a 1/4" to make the tube headers clear same challenges you faced. I used a flat piece of bar stock 1/4" thick and it lifted the motor the correct amount. Still use them, they work great. May be easier than having to machine the mounts as you have done.
I like that, Come along on the journey and see what we can do. I like the idea a creative fix and Tig that weld in then finish it with K&T and a carbide cutter.
Never quench a red hot weld in water. Rapid quench turns the weld brittle as a tap. Not good with the torque that a Big Block delivers. You should have just quenched just the rubber section instead of the entire part.
I have had a similar issue on a Chevelle SS and an easy way to raise the motor on the mounts is to add a few washers as shims under the flat mating surface, which bolts to the engine block. It looks like 3 bolts to the block and its done. If you want to get fancy, cut a 1/4" plate with 3 holes as a shim instead of washers. It's quite simple and as others have commented, you can then replace the motor mount without modifications. Maybe my suggestion doesn't apply here as those are not Chevy BB motor mounts. Possibly Ford Mustang..
CannTec LLC At no point did he do as you claim.
I dont know the whole scope of the project, but it seems like it would be easier to just cut a couple pieces of flat steel whatever thickness you needed and longer bolts and raised the motor mounts instead of altering them.
Boy that plasma cutter is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
As others have noted this is more solution than the problem requires.
Shimming up the cchassis/frame side of the motor mounts is quick an easy and the only modefication needed would be elongating some holes with a file. Depending on the result that you need you can both lift the motor and nudge it to one side or the other with shims of different thicknesses.
Only Keith can make an hour long video about a job that probably would have taken him 30 min start to finish.
That is somewhat where the phrase; pausing for an explanation! LOL ;{)------
Amen, glad to see you in action again!!!
I like the use of the drill vise on the welding table. Nice ground point.
Nice job Keith. I like the captain hindsight at the end, always looking for ways to do the job better next time.
G'day, Keith! I enjoyed "Making Header Room!!" (your modifying a set of motor mounts to give 1/4" more room for exhaust headers.) Love to see more... Thank you very much for the video!
Cheers! :-)
Old car fabricator here... I would have rather maintained the drive train geometry by leaving the mounts where they are and modifying the pan and header.
This is a lesson learned through improper alignment between the engine/transmission and the rearend way back in the 1980's. I hate having to walk back and pick up my driveshaft.
Also down the road he would be able to buy a motor mount off the shelf.
A quarter of an inch will do nothing to upset the u-joint geometry. If anything, a lot of builders will make the mistake of designing a drive train that is too straight. U-joints require a certain minimum operating angle (the manufacturers publish minimum and maximum angle data) to insure the proper function of the roller bearings. If you build one too straight, you will indeed be "walking back and picking up your driveshaft"! Besides, as I said earlier in this thread, custom mounts are a fun part of any build. Use your head to design and build something!
Paul - Ideal driveshaft geometry is when the car's at rest, the pinion and trans output shaft are parallel. There's no such thing as "too straight." Spicer recommends 3 degrees or less. As long as those two are parallel to each other, and the u joints are within their angular operating range, you're fine. Moving just one or the other can cause problems, though a 1/4" is probably unnoticeable.
Oh - I built my blower setup, including A/W intercooler core from scratch, as well as the EFI computer, among other things (trans, etc); the car runs 9's and is completely street driveable (click on my user name to see some of my stuff) - does that count?
if it's perfectly straight the needle bearings dont lubricate properly and over a period of time can cause premature u joint failure. more than likely a 9 second blower car receive more maintenance than a commuter car and drives thousands miles less.
I raced BB Chryslers..
Like all MOPAR guys the first thing I tried was a "Pinion Snubber" So much for the Direct Connection catalog..I wound up with a 4 bar suspension.
The angle of the powertrain is critical relative to the driveshaft angle, to the axle pinion angle. If both are exactly opposite, Vibration and centrifugal forces will not come into play.
So if the engine is angled down (front to back) -5 degrees, the pinion angle must be +5 degrees. More important, if the engine mounts are rubber insulated, the transmission crossmember rubber and rear axle rubber snubbers (if used) should be of the same hardness (durometer).
The same is true laterally. You can have an offset axle pinion so long as the angle at the transmission output shaft to u-joint angle equally angled.
In our race cars we use solid steel engine mounts and measure axle pinion angle and transmission output shaft angles. Failure to do so is bad news as you describe. For asphalt stock cars we shoot for 3 to 3 1/2 degrees down on the pinion and up on the transmission end. The axle will twist "up" roughly 3 degrees under load. If the yoke is properly clearanced, the driveshaft angles will dynamically change equally.
A small piece of angle iron cut into a small bracket would help it not to move. Place one part under the home made clamp to catch the horizontal then vice grip the vertical so as to bridge the rubber insulator. This would make it stable and not wiggle when drilling. That is if there is enough room. Great job!
In the time you had invested moving the hole in those mounts, you could have made brand new mounts using your plasma cam to cut new plates to bolt to the motor then welding on the correct size tube to accept a couple of urethane bushings (one inserted from each end). The part that fits to the frame could also be cut on the plasma cam with the correct size ears welded on it to accept a bolt that goes through the center of the urethane bushings. Your manila envelope guide would have served well to position the frame tabs before welding them or they can be made from templates on the vehicle. Anyway, this method has served me well for a number of engine conversions and the welding can be done with the urethane removed. If you are starting from scratch, this method works great when you have the motor in the correct position in whatever frame you are using and can be tack welded in place using steel or aluminum slugs cut to the size of the urethane bushings... Thickness of the steel plates and tube depend on the engine HP and intended use i.e. street or track.
However, the customer is always right, Right? lol
For Sure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good video. Keith you seemed to be amazing yourself with your heatsink. All the best.
Aluminum is a good heat conductor, all right! Nice job. Looking forward to seeing the vehicle this will be going into.
excellent work Keith .
While I was a bit confused on all the effort for a motor mount, the part that really got me was his "Chingadareo". Every time Keith said that I had flashbacks to Happy Days and the Fonz's affair with "Pinky Tuscadero" strange how the mind works.
Just a quick suggestion, an ND filter is super handy for filming arc based welding because it cuts out the glare of the arc and the viewer can get a puddle view.
Like I said in video, I wasn't going to use my auto change lens and camera on this project, like I have in my past videos. ;{)------
Ah, sorry, didn't see that part. I was definitely not criticizing, just a suggestion if you didn't know that was an option. As always, I very much enjoyed the video!
Keith: to make the aluminum block stay even cooler, you can make some 1/8 " wide saw cuts 1/4" apart on the bottom side. Then blow the cooling air through those cuts. Makes the block into a heat radiator. Used in electronics industry a lot. See you at Bar-Z. Jon
That an old California saying
Ahh to be able to do all welding on a bench! Wouldn't that be grand! I hope we get to see the car.
top notch work as usual Mr Keith,
my concern is about the uniqueness of a consumable part, the motor mounts are the type of part that usually fail much before the engine so the user will have to resume the process in event of a failure
Amazing work memorising wonder if your customers & friends realise how lucky they are to know you
im thinking an adjustable parallel might have worked well in this drilling setup. a larger one set up to just barely push the ears apart would prevent movement due to drill pressure.
As a suggestion, what if you were to cut out a piece of copper that would create a "mold" for the outer shape of your "chingadero" ...- the part that needs to be filled .... and which would slip in on each side of your existing metal. You could then fill up the "copper mold" with weld and get the exact shape that you would need. No?
Whenever I have to fill up a hole, I have some copper plates which I clamp behind the hole that needs to be filled (in the same way you used the aluminum block). This allows me to fill the hole without blowing out metal because I've got open space instead of a backing.
Great video, outstanding fabrication.
Excellent video so far! Wile i was sitting here watching i just got to thinking, to minimise thermal cycles, and minimise heat input, could you have just cut some discs of turned stock and fusion welded them in, same with the little ears? it would save some time on cooling everything down over and over again, i know when building up material normally that controlling heat input is a pain, i can't imagine this being any better.
The flat part of that mount is meant to sit on the frame bracket for added support.What happens now with the ears 1/4" longer??
Now that is a nice end of the day. Looking forward to go to the workshop tomorrow morning no doubts :o)
Welcome Back Keith long time no see you have been missed great video
Scott Tyndall's Home Shop
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To me it would seem to be easier to cut out the shapes with plasma cam and lap them into the assembly with weld. It would mean the bolt would need to be longer.
I thought the same thing. Maybe there is a good reason not to but I can't think of it...
A few new pieces of sheet metal welded in place of the old ones would have saved a whole lot of time and welding gas...
And the word today is .... Chingadareo... Chingadareo ;)
Big Bird says " Wow what a great word, it can mean anything, like whatsit, widget, gizmo, or thingummy bob. Cool "
"COOKIES!" shouts the cookie monster.......
"No, " says Big Bird, " Chingadareo.."
"COOKIES!" shouts the cookie monster.......
Big Bird sighs and walks off shaking his head, mumbling under his breath. "Fucking puppets!"
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chingadero LOL
I'd call it a wossname...
What the heck is a "gubbin"?
You could say "A chingadero..." but that's just a circular argument, and not very helpful. My (understandably limited) knowledge has the word as "gubbins," and it was, so far as I know, an English word originally: "That gubbins on the planishing tackle there, over by the bowsing strake..."
Mr Hyss tells me I missed "whatshername," but I didn't; not really. The word I used was "wossname," which is a lazy Australian way of saying the same thing. I have also seen that word rendered as "whatsaname," but I don't think the spelling is important. It's the meaning that matters, and we *all* know what that is.
thingamajig and whatchamacallit are easier for me as a gringo.
Funny, for once (and only once) your postmortem described exactly what I would have done.... Maybe using wood as a support rather than aluminum. Most of the time, however, I am in awe of your skills and only wish I had a 1/10th the ability.
ck
The point of the massive block of aluminium is to have it suck as much welding heat as possible out of the bracket, rather than have it melt the rubber.
Wood would not have achieved this.
I'm surprised Keith is planning to use a build-up technique: I would have thought it would be better to cut off the lugs, weld 1/4" extensions to the cut edges, and then weld them back on (less heat, easier to position the holes, no machining required). But I'm not going to back myself against Keith: I'm sure he has excellent reasons for doing it his way.
That was a great project to watch and learn from, thanks Keith. And to all the wooda, coulda, shoulda comments- bottom line is, like Frank once sang " I Did It My Way"
Keith love videos you certainly know your way around a machine shop! When you machined a snap off piece of casting with a milling machine you showed some of matching in slow motion, what was the music you played with it I would love to know so I can listen to it again please, it really moved me. Thanks mike.
We always use solid mounts when trying this trick. We also always use straps or chains to tie the motor down incase you actually snap a mount. Flexible mounts are no good for these types of high HP swaps. big blocks really like to twist when revved so you break flex mounts actually faster than solids.
Nice Job. ABomb has one up on you though. You tell us what you had for lunch, he shows us how to cook it.
Guess what is up next at the next YT Big Bash? A YT Machinists Cook Off!
abom is a scientist this guy is a machinist
Hi Keith, the big block could be a touch extreme for the old Porsche, do you think? But it would've fun :)
Thanks. Now I'm going to have that word stuck in my head all day. 😊
Did you see the piece move at 52:00 - 52:10 when the bit broke though?
Yeah, the fixture is a bit precarious...
You should download a dinner bell ringtone for your wifes contact ringtone. lol or record her ringing one and yelling "Babe come and get it!" Sure you could make a good dinner bell for her...
Say.. thats a good idea!
keith could you have put a sacrificial rod between the flanges to hold it tight? or a jacking bolt? while drilling?
or a piece of tubing :)
I have encountered this.. especially light motor to heavy. 6cyl to v8 mostly. Always just shim, or even wait for the spring tension of the body to go back to normal once drivetrain is back in. A .25 inch tells me it is on the upside of an empty engine bay. weight will squish it to an angle. Interesting project anyway..
Something I don’t understand. A motor mount will fail over time and need to be replaced. Why not do the adjustments on the frame mounts so stock rubber mounts can be used without modifying?
customers request, not my own project. ;{)-----
If car is going to be drag raced mounts must be solid with no rubber allowed.
I am willing to bet this is a "old school" type of street rod. The mounts and brackets are designed and built to be as clean as possible. Probably headed to the platers after machining and cleaning. The last thing you want in a custom build is a bunch of spacers or shims that look like you don't know how to measure.
jeff r
Why is this ?
Job security for Keith LOL
A superb job as usual. That plate steel you cut the hold down from, do you pick that up yourself or do you have it delivered? If delivered, buy who? Can't be UPS...thanks for all the great videos.
keith nice work.
ive got an old solar PV inverter heat sink its like 8mm thick about 600x400mm and has the whole back side covered in like 30mm tall fins it is gods gift dont know how i managed before
its common to pick up dead cheep import inverts to gain the sink from the back of them
another job in the bag .
Would it have been easier to cut off the ears, use the plasma cam to make new ones and weld them on?
It would have been easier to just cut the existing ears right at the bottom of the holes, keeping the maximum of existing material, then fabricate new "extended" ears in a D shape using your plasma cam, pre-drill the holes and then weld them to the engine supports. I don't think welding the new ears would have put more heat than building up the existing ears since the welds would have been where the old holes were.
Hey Keith, what I liked is the adding to the mount with the TIG. I heard a loud flow of the argon, what was your flow rate? I am just learning TIG and was curious. I know that the mount is for a street car but I would have just used solid motor mounts. Spaghetti supper is a great reason to stop eh. God Bless Ya Dave
David Aarons 10 to 15 on the flow, the mic picks up the sound very well.
; {)------
At 28 mins, you are blowing the weld with the air hose. Is that moisture coming out of the air line and making the spots on the weld bead? Is water in your air line going to mess up any of your tools or do you need to fix something with the drier? Do you have one of those auto water purge valves on your air tank?
Not moisture. ;{)------
oh, okay. I was just curious because I kept seeing little dots cool off quicker than the surrounding material and thought those dots were from water.
What a difference what I would do with a cordless drill and a vise, versus how it should be done....
Chingadero not to be confused with chineesium!
All that heating and cooling, you're no worried about the engine mounts going brittle and cracking? Just a thought!
When he torques it up CAUTION!!!!!!!!!!!
AT 47:44, I HAVE THAT SAME SCREW DRIVER! IV NAMED MINE BIG BERTHA!!! IV USED IT TO PRY, SCRAPE, & EVERY NOW & THEN, TO TURN A WIDE FLAT HEAD.MINE HAS SEEN SOME ABUSE!
bore a 1/2" hole through the Al block and tap some fittings on to each side. Drop a pond pump into a 5 gal bucket with ice water in it and let that flow through the block.
I was also wondering why not just put some grade 8 washers under the mounts as shims with longer bolts-? Maybe that still wouldn't give the needed clearance in the right area, the easiest solution isn't always the best. As you said, customer request not your choice.
chingadera, not chingadero lol, props to those beautiful welds
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chingadero
Nice, option 2- mig on a piece of copper.
Edit= any Motörhead would've shimmed the mounts
That was my thought, seems a better option.
Keith why not add a 1/4 plate under the mount? would that mess up the geometry
The mount bolts up from the side ;{)------
So it doesn't stick to the aluminum and the aluminum doesn't contaminate the weld enough to create porosity? Or are you making sure the arc doesn't touch the aluminum?
The aluminium is so massive that the heat is dissipated before it can reach its melting point, additionally the frequency of the weld for steel will more likely create aluminium oxide and draw some impurity out of the steel. The bigger issue is that the thermal gradient might cause stresses in the steel, in this case it's not important, but if it were heat treating the part would be sensible.
I thought header room problem was solved with the invention of the tilt wheel ???
At the risk of exposing my ignorance - why doesn't the weld stick to the Aluminum?
why not plasma cut new tabs to replace the old ones?
Did you take into account the angle of the mounts when measuring the height? I noticed you measuring and drilling while they are flat on your table. They usually mount at an angle meaning the holes on the opposite sides are now closer together. No clue what car this is going into so I am probably wrong but you know its the internet everyone is a critic. Still enjoyed watching the work!
You got your brandy new welding gloves dirty...
Serious question, shouldn't you let the weld cool (at least from red hot to "not glowing") within the inert gases from the welding gun? Considering this is a motor mount I daresay it's going to experience some stress... immediately removing the shielding gas (that you pay for) and blowing it off with compressed (free) air just seems a little bass ackwards..
Learn't a lot, I have a large block of Aluminum I now know what to do with if needed.. LOL
Just curious, assuming ( always a dangerous thing) that the hole was some nominal size, would an endmill of taken less pressure to poke thole holes and maybe eased the " problems" with the flexing?
Cheers Keith
I thought an endmill would of done the same if not worst. ;{)------
ok cool, thanks Keith
An annular cutter is often the best option to reduce end thrust when drilling thru holes, but they're pricey.
Should have went with solid motor mounts. The rubber ones do practically nothing to isolate engine vibration from the chassis.
DomManInT1
Have you driven a car with solid mounts? Horrible experience.
Why, yes. Yes I have. And I made sure I had a well balanced, high horsepower engine in that car. It was wonderful. But you would not know that.
Why not just make four 1j/4" thick washers to bolt between the mount & the block with 1/4" longer bolts
Hi Keith!
It is nice video.
I have only one question, Why welding? Why not cut the fixing profile on the plasma cutter ??
I didn't mean whole part, but fixtures or lug, don't know how name better those parts, which Keith had enlarge by welding.
Like in comments before,
Corndog 10 hours ago (edited)
>I dont know the whole scope of the project, but it seems like it would be easier to just cut a couple pieces
>of flat steel whatever thickness you needed and longer bolts and raised the motor mounts instead of
>altering them.
Стефан Парийски 14 hours ago
>A few new pieces of sheet metal welded in place of the old ones would have saved a whole lot of time and welding gas...
But, I propose replace those «part parts», cut new, and replace old by new.
Keith told about rubber inside, which fears overheat, but those part were constructed on factory in some way…
I'm thinking that is a Pontiac mount. Maybe Ford.
Hey Keith, You goin death bunny on us or is that black fingernail polish you be sporting?????
You watched a lot of Roadkill when you were laid up, didn't you?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that a 1/4" shim with drilled mounting holes could not be placed under the original part with no welding..?
Your right! was my first question before taking on job! LOL ;{)------
I'm not understanding, are you saying a simple shim under the mount could not be used without no welding nor K&T Voodoo?
The direction for up is not sitting down on a shim lift area, the mounting holes are 90 degrees from the ears. ;{)------
Shims would move the hole up and in... they only wanted up.
Thanks! Guess I'm not quite picturing it.
i tig extension metal on gun parts often... it works
Pontiac 400/455 mounts?
Have done it before 1/4 " stock under mount.
what's next, a giant block of copper? :)
why not a new oil pan?
What's a chingadero? Being a SoCal person for 65 of my 71 years, it's a common word. Chingaso was also pretty common; it means to hit hard.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chingadero
put motor mount in tray filled with water with just ears sticking out nothing will cool better
I had the same stuttering problem
Chingadero A made-up Spanglish word used in a similar fashion to the word thingamajig. The root word in Spanish is chingar, "to fuck".
Did I hear you right?....did you say "now we have a "chingara" tha we will be able to cut out here" lmao!! is that what you said??
Urban dictionary for the word Chingadero. _A made-up Spanglish word used in a similar fashion to the word thingamajig. The root word in Spanish is chingar, "to f**k"_ ..lol...
So... according to what I can find on Google, "chingadero" means "little copulator". Or "dingus". I guess it depends on the context.
chingadera. Thats new to me. I had to look that up
What was your findings
Thanks