Do You Need All That Suspension? // 2020 Norco Optic
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Uses bike with 140mm front fork "more like cross country bike". Cross Country Bike with 100mm front and back travel: "am i a joke to you"
Lol yeah I guess coming from 180 it will feel xc ish.
I hope the trend continues because I just don't find long travel bikes fun to ride for my trails and strictly XC bikes are not burly enough. Short travel with modern geometry makes a lot of sense for most people. Not everyone rides enduro type trails but we all have to climb.
People criticize the bike you ride cuz they just love to hate! Idk why it bothers ppl so much? They’re not the ones riding it... if it works for you, ride whatever tf you want!
Exactly I’m 50 years old and been riding bikes for years and for me it’s an aggressive long travel bike all the way. Light trail XC bikes for are just not fun to rides
They bounce around underneath you too much and are not comfortable
As a hard tail guy, this aggressive geo with the smaller travel is really appealing
I feel like this is a trail bike not a down country bike
I agree
New bike category? 29er short travel trail bike! Xtrail!
125/140, sounds like a pretty typical 29er trail bike, most of them are shorter travel. Down country is more like an XC bike with something like 110/120 travel.
mrvwbug44 no down country is between enduro and trail, which would be a 140/140 or a 140/120
It's because it IS a trail bike. Jack of all trades, master of none. And Graham, your wrong mate. Down Country is a shit name, but it's for aggressive XC bikes. It's goes basically like this: XC > DC > Trail > All Mountain > Enduro > Freeride > DH.
So glad you checked out the Optic. Like you said, it won Bike of the Year for a reason. Just a damn good all around bike.
Sidenote- Anyone who wants to see the Optic take big ol' booters and tech, feel free to check out my channel.
To be totally honest I’m starting to see the appeal in less travel rather than more
Agreed I ride black and double blacks on a 140/120. No flats and no rim hits. Does the job well and keeps things interesting.
Graham S what bike?
Graham S must not be going that fast then? Apparently these short travel 29ers haven’t caught on yet with EWS racers
@@grahams5146 same here.. Yeti sb 130 with a 140mm fork here and it still slays double blacks..
I ride a Trek full Stache. I can do literally anything with that beast.(130/140)
Puny mortals, I am a member of the "Walmart bike Downhill" Club
Hahaha
I’m part of the “Walmart bike ‘enduro’” club, glad to see they have one for dh
@@anthonywalters7434 lmao nice
I rode the 2017 version of the optic for close to three years. I never ran into a trail that the bike couldn’t conquer and it jumped better than any other full suspension bike that I’ve ridden. I ride a specialized Stumpjumper EVO now which is an all mountain bike but I would definitely say that the optic has a wider range of what it can ride well.
I really like how you're taking on the wheelsize/ travel debate lately. You don't label anything as good or bad, but instead give a great insight on what the bike is actually like. I'd be interested to hear your opinion about a "mid-travel" 27,5er, like the Yeti SB140, Transition Scout, Banshee Spitfire or even the Santa Cruz 5010. Also: I feel like being "underbiked" will force you to develop skill, which sure is difficult at first, but will pay later on.
That is tg6e most accurate description of that bike I've heard. After owning my Optic for 3 months i love it more every ride and am amazed at how capable it is with everything i throw at it.
I think with the vids of all these playful bikes, vancan is feeling the effects of going full enduro. Never go full enduro.
Picked up a C3 a couple of weeks ago and it's so much fun. Haven't found anything it can't handle I like to think of it as my "mini enduro" bike. So easy to pedal it's perfect for getting laps in after work when you work a tiring job. Has been helping me get some more km in so I'm very happy. Now I leave the big enduro bike for the weekend gnar but this is my go to for almost everything 👌
I appreciate short travel bikes, I like how light and quick they are, but I don't think I'd ever own one on its own. Definitely need that long travel for race days.
This is awesome. I was talking about how I thought a short travel bike would be sweet for your type of riding when not racing in a previous video but got shot down by other people
I guess 125/140 might be "down country" by North Shore standards, for the rest of us that is pretty typical 29er trail bike. IMHO a 140/150 trail bike is probably the best all arounder, something like a Trance, Stumpy or Hightower. Enough travel to take on almost anything, short enough to be nimble and easy to throw around on tight trails, poppy enough to be loads of fun on jump lines. Enduro bikes can be a pain on tight trails due to the length.
Agreed
Totally. I got a 140/150 bike recently and it's perfectly in the middle, crushes techy climbs just as well as chunky downhill.
Just where the previous gen Sight sat. Kinda a hole in the Norco lineup. New Sight is Duroed out, Range hasn't been upgraded yet, but maybe 180/170, interested to see where Norco take it.
This bike is very different than your typical 125/140 bike. Look at the reach, head angle, and seat angle. It’s enduro numbers on a short travel trail bike. This has only been available for the last year or so outside of maybe the yeti sb4.5 and people loved that bike.
Kinda have to disagree here, my experience with owning bikes such as the Hightower and Sentinel were that they barely pedal better than modern enduro sleds and don't offer the same composed suspension on dh. They also aren't as efficient or playful as shorter travel rigs, especially with many mid travel bikes now sporting similar geo/wheelbase as enduro bikes. Of course this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to encourage people to overbike as many do.
Wish I had trails around here that made me think a 140mm fork is made only for "light trail riding"...
Ya a lot of people are over biked. These big enduro rigs aren’t always necessary. We do mainly XC single track up here in New England. We do some pretty rippin descents on rocky rooty terrain and the pivot Mach 429 sl with 120/100mm travel handles it amazingly. unless your jumping big or dropping big you don’t need all that travel.
luciccrew617 yea I have a Santa Cruz 5010 and it has plenty of travel
I think comments about the enduro being too much bike were pretty specific to the shore. Less so Squamish and definitely not Whistler. Just makes sense that a big bike works better on faster more wide open trails.
as someone moving to the north shore about a year ago how much bike you need for the north shore is a funny topic. I have a 2020 sight and feel like that is too much bike for definitely fromme and seymour. The speed you carry on most trails is relatively low and therefore the travel isnt useable. optic would of been the perfect weapon!
Subsequently if anyone is interested in a full 6 month review of the 2020 sight check out my latest video
Wow. That is the review of the Optic I needed to hear. Thanks for sharing!! :)
I’ve been looking at this, the Ibis Ripley, and the Banshee Phantom. Short travel is a real option now that the geo is updated. I think the most overlooked advantage of hardtails and short travel bikes is the ability to pump speed and flow on terrain you wouldn’t normally be able to. Underbiking isn’t just more fun because it’s challenging. Slowing down or skipping along some chunk is a fair trade for pumping more speed on rollers, jumps, and berms.
When I ride 130mm HT, I ride the trail, literally: nothing is missed, every pebble is overlooked and analyzed. When I borrow my friend's 160 big boii bike, I fly through everything and just look forward. Both are enjoyable, both are different. It's like Land Rover vs Hummer.
Rad! Yea been eyeing that Optic! Short travel bikes makes everything just a little spicier! :)
Gotta love over-geo'd short travel bikes :)
the best combo is 130Rear/150Front - Good night!
Forbidden Druid
I just went down to a rear travel 140 mm Hightower. Love the lightness compared to my old Enduro bike and feels better going up hill.
Idk bro, I’m riding with a 2013 XC hardtail with 100mm in the fork cause that’s all that I can afford. Riding the kind of jank, jumps, and drops I like I can’t even imagine how amazing a full suspension with “only” 140 mm of fork suspension feels like.
I have a 2021 Fluid with 140,120mm of travel and I've tackled some fairly gnarly single black and even some double black tech on it.
I'm loving the whole bike testing videos! Awesome to hear first hand experience on so many different bikes!
Wish other brands would do that in depth sizing on thier website
I have only taken my Capra out twice, and already wish I bought a Jeffsey (or a Canyon Spectral). I knew my trails didn't justify a Capra, but I just didn't understand what they meant about the difference between an enduro and a trail bike until I rode the enduro. It's the first full suspension I've ever ridden. Sometimes it cost money to learn things.
I’m at the downhill shuttle park in Eureka Springs. Capra is happy. :)
Made the same mistake with the capra shred
Optic vs Tallboy would be a good shootout
I ride a Norco Optic but the 2017 model. I love it ❤️
i rode a 130mm travel bike on top of the world and khybers. feet were getting bounced off the pedals a couple times and getting off track a bit on top of the world. but the loamers were fine. For chunder longer travel is much preferred.
Been riding a 2009 Giant Trance, 120mm front and back at the downhill parks my whole riding life. Definitely makes it feel like your going faster!
How did it go on jumps? Does it survive on jumps?
You should definitely give xc bikes and trail hardtails a try. You would really be surprised what you can do with little travel. If you pick your lines and use your bike handling skills you can still ride a lot of the more chunky trails!
Test a hardtial now :)
I do not understand the obsession with short travel either. But then I have mostly downhill or enduro type trails. I ride either a dh bike or what used to be a trail bike (140/140) with 160/152 travel and shortened stem.
My giant trance 3 29 isn't bad it just gets painfull if you do a lot of harder or rocky riding because it only had 115mm of travel in the rear. I would say it's best on tech
I own this bike and I can tell you the hype is real!! No it’s not for everyone obviously some people need more suspension some need less but for me and where I ride it’s absolutely perfect. Climbs fantastic and on the sketchy downs the geo numbers on the optic make it not sketch at all and I feel like I’m on my 160 enduro bike. For where I ride the optic is a quiver killer and makes me only need 1 bike. If I go back to windrock this year... that’ll be a different story
I remember how much of a squirrel catcher that skinny @8:40 was back in the old 26er days.
You should make a video of riding your bmx on the mountain bike trails.
I second this comment 😆
Yes fucking please?
I third
Hell yeah
I think the shorter travel bikes are more fun but I just bought a longer travel (enduro) bike. It's for the times I run out of talent. Bike feels the gap between what I think I can do and what I can actually do.
You make everything so interesting
You don't need more travel. You just want it!!! 😍 Aaaand... For my broken back!
This made me feel a lot better about my short travel
I think this is a new bike category Xtrail!
That was awesome! Been curious about the Optic. Was on my demo bike list for this spring (May), but Covid19 ended all the festivals and demo events around here. Geo looks great. So super psyched that you rode it. Impressed with it's capability. Thanks.
I like the sound of this geometry
I find a 140mm back 140+mm front 29er is perfect for literally everything
Agreed! Are you a Jeffsy brother?
@@nosreuter Specialized Stumpjumper Evo Comp 29er🤘
Great test ride VanCan! You had me on the edge of my seat down Boogie Nights.
You don’t need all that suspension, riding what you got riding what you enjoy, riding just to ride is all that matters... but yea I agree the Norco set up page is just bonkers bad ass.... I my self love my free ride bike with all that suspension, but nothing like putting your true skills to the match on a hardtail at a lift park(should hold a season pass because folks might feel they waisted a day on a stiffy) but yea, wet weather to muddy trails, hard tail wins... makes any trail feel like they are one color up... I have ridden green trails on a hardtail that felt like single blacks meanwhile when on the freeride bikes the double blacks feel like blue trails! I just wish more content creators would make hardtail videos! All around the fun factor of sending a hardtail is just more enjoyable to watch... hardtailparty does this but he rides a lot of flat and it gets boooooring
Really enjoying your content at the moment man! Keep it the good work!
The YT auto caption thinks this is about the “2020 Dorko optic”
Well you CAN ride them on a cruiser with a basket. The question is how enjoyable of an experience it is.
Me:2020 can't surprise me
2020: vancan glovless
you should definitely try out the Stumpy Evo, that would be sick! a medium travel trail bike with crazy geo, I think it might fit the NS well
If I had the money I'd probably consider this bike for the color alone. Spec is pretty alright too.
would be great to see if you could demo a druid. been seriously thinking about one of those and waiting patiently for their enduro version.
Have a new full suspension bike 130 pike up front and 120 in the rear. It's really smooth downhill. But I can't stop riding my xtr hardtail. So nimble and climbing ability is on a different level.
I just got off the optic and seated it climbs better than my hardtail!! So much traction!
You should test the cannondale habit carbon 1!!!!! I love mine and compared it to the sight and fell even more in love with my habit!
Hey, I have one of these... this review is definately fair and true. This bike is simply darn good fun.. and having just that little less travel spices up but doesn't hinder. I've been waiting for a 29er that has these characteristics... and it delivers. The rear end DH shock is one of the best I've ridden in my 20 years on a MTB. As reviewed the geo and set up is simple, effective and works so so well. I haven't ridden my 160mm 27.5 rig for months... perhaps now I save that for the Alps and uplifts / shuttles.. or maybe.. just maybe... sell it. This Optic is stellar. ( I'm not sponsored, I'm your normal weekend MTB warrior that does 50km rides, also playing in the woods with jumps and stuff... and rides with mates)
Great Vid. Jury is still out for me on the suspension, really like the 170mm front and back
Great to see your insights on this bike. Was debating between the optic 3 and ibis ripmo AF nx build. Went ripmo AF. Would love to see you review that.
What type of trails you have? I'm debating between these exact two. I think I might not be able to evolve that much on the Norco but prefer the pedalling efficiency.
I just got one of the new Evil Followings and I have been crazy impressed with the bike. It is much more capable than I would have guessed. Looked at the optic but ended up with the Evil.
Was torn between the following and the optic also. Went with the optic because I just liked the geo numbers better but man the following is a gorgeous bike!! Don’t regret my decision on optic because I love it but I still sometimes cheat on my optic and take a little peak at the following
Miller Reid ya I was interested in the headline angle but wanted the extra agility as it’s a second bike for me. I have a YT Capra for the more insane trails and bike parks, and the evil for the more average trails.
i loved my original Smuggler, and i'm sure i would love this Optic. i'll throw a leg over eventually. but at this point, the compromise for longer travel bikes is less and less. i'll take the comfort and confidence of my 170/170 29er all day which climbs like a goat, weighs not much more than that bike and leaves my old bones feeling ready to go the next day. it took me a while to come to this conclusion though, because bikes like this are just so good and fun in their own right.
No 170/170 climbs like a goat.
Short travel trail bikes are where its at! I love mine so much.
what bike do you have? I own a norco fluid fs3 130 rear travel 140 front, but I'm kindda skeptical to hit semi bigish jumps thinking it might break.
@@DiabolicalSpender I have a 2016 camber comp carbon, a marin nail trail e2, and a trek roscoe.
@@DiabolicalSpender hmm, you could probably hit some bigger stuff, but I would be a bit worried about how the x-fusion suspension will hold up over time since it's more designed as a budget air fork/shock
@@clmfilms8103 I actually have the rockshox 35 140 forks
@@DiabolicalSpender hmm, did you upgrade the fork? I thought that the base model is a 130 x fusion. Anyway, one of my friends got a fs3 with the cheaper 130 x fusion fork which is way less durable than the rockshox 35, and he has been sending 4 foot drops and gaps with it and it's holding up fine. It's a tough bike, so I'd say that it would be fine to hit bigger stuff with it.
The real homies ride rigid
Fr fr shit likes to get roudy
Rigid.
My tires are the only suspension I need😂
RIP Wrists 😂😂
BuildTest/ExplosionTest I don’t even need tyre mate, I’ve got arms and legs 😂
Making me rethink about the bike imma like next. I do have a question about jumping as I know you have some good experience with it! Whilst jumping I have a habit to keep my pointer fingers on the brakes is that a bad thing or should I just take my fingers off the brakes whilst jumping?
I'm willing to bet most the people making the "too much bike" comments have never actually ridden the double blacks out here and are blinded by the gopro effect on video. We ride some gnarly shit out here.
Edit - You should try to get on a Norco Sight and see how you feel about that. Available in 27.5 and 29
Would be interested on your take of the 2020 Santa Cruz Tallboy. Also a short travel bike with modern geo.
Billy Mitchell is honestly go with the 5010
I see so many guys overbiked ! Rad little video
This would be similar to my bike (Trek Fuel Ex) with a beefy 140 fork. (I have a shitty Recon 32mm stanchions and coming from Moto and BMX... The fork is my weakness by far... ) saving for a Pike now anyway as that's my biggest complaint and especially jumping.
I love the Norco setup guide. Considering them for my next/carbon bike...
Great Video!!
Get a new Marzocchi Z1. Fox bought them out, I have one and its effing awesome. Had a Pike prior and the Marz kills it.
Interesting video. I ride a DB Mission, 160F/160R 27.5.. It has a shorter reach, with longer rear chainstays... geometry which actually makes for a great bike when going down some serious steep slopes. Sometimes I use all of that travel (Angel Fire), and but other times in local trails, I often feel a little over biked. If I had to do with just two bikes, I suspect a 150/130 bike would do the trick, with a DH bike for park riding. Could I have a 3 bike quiver? Something like the Optic, a long travel 180/170ish enduro, and a DH bike would probably be a pretty good mix.
Kudos Brother , you are a good rider....
Love to see you compare the optic against the Izzo 👍🏼
Seems like the Optic's numbers are pretty identical to the SC Tall Boy... Would be curious to see a detailed comparison
Thank you the great review 😀. Did you end up using most of you travel going down the black trail? Did you bottom out at all? For someone older interested in going slower on similar trails (longer and costlier recovery with broken bones), would you recommend longer travel bike to add forgiveness, like Norco Sight? Or if going slower, you would be okay with shorter travel? Just trying to figure out what would be best to replace my 5 year old trail bike.
Nice vid nick!Tnx for posting!
Hey! I'm in Aus and still early? Yay. Great Vid man
Thanks, @VanCan for the vid
I was getting pretty bored.
For what I ride I really like my 150 / 160 with 65 to 66 hta
Hello! what trail is this? I'm planning to go to Vancouver this summer and take my revolver FS120, I'm starting building my list of trails to ride within the down-country range, thanks for any recommendations!
What’s your opinion on all mountain bikes like the norco sight a3
I like the sight a lot!
What size bike do you normally ride? I’m around 6 1 in height and in between sizes and don’t know whether to get an XL or L. I’ve seen a lot of people say size down.
Am in the same boat 5.9 and between medium and large, norco have stated to go for the large. It’s going to be interesting to see how the van-can comparison between the to sizes is.
I’m 6ft and usually size down, but it depends on the brand. I usually aim for a ~480mm reach
VanCan , it’s funny most other manufacturers like spec and transition would have me a medium. And agree I think sizing gio would suit the smaller medium for me. Ps great video.
Hey do you think you could review the Santa Cruz Tallboy 4? Dh style geo and short travel, similar to the norco
Do you need all that suspension?
How bout my 0 mil rear travel hardtail? Nothing beats that...
I do some mad trails on my hard tail. You should see the looks I get lmao 😂
@@leightaft7763 man same we got a proper MTB park here in oz and I was like do I need 160 front rear? So I sell that bought a san Quentin 3 hardcore hardtail I was like you must be kidding me. The thing is a beast jumps so much harder than any full suspension. The cornering of an hardtail is so aggressive. I'm having a lot of fun actually way too much fun! 140 at the front cushcore for a little suspension and the thing fly
Bro I feel you. Me and my 100mm travel hardtail against the world.
th-cam.com/video/c8o3ZiKM0lY/w-d-xo.html
Heavy
Same. I ride a hardtail with a 120 air fork and I love it.
Have you thought about testing the yeti sb165 for your comparison of 27.5 vs 29ers
If you wanna ride something the bike doesn't matter , I rode uphill/ enduro / long days on a full on dh Bike
If I were crazy enough to sell my Kona Process 111, I think I’d like to try this Optic!
It's awesome
bennymorry I have a 111 also, was thinking about a Reign 29 but this looks really good too.
Ookla Moc I often look at the Ibis ripmo AF. I’d be curious to try it and the optic vs my process.
How would it ride in the Bike Park?
There is no one bike that does it all, everything is a compromise, it just comes down to what you, as the individual rider, want to prioritise.
The pinkbike crew rode it in the park and said they had a lot of fun. Personally I love riding DH bikes in the park
@@VanCan I get that short travel bikes can be "fun" in the park, but, once you start hitting the real DH trails, you know where you want to be....
Sweet bike. Did you get a chance to compare this to the new Transition Scout?
I think I might get one of these next year 🤔
I have one question, is it FUN to ride the north shore?
I just love mine 😎
because youve got a DH bike for park, I'd have thought a 140-160mm enduro bike would be perfect....
Awesome!
nice video man! have you considered reviewing a Kona?
Soon maybe!
@@VanCan yay! just ordered a process and will probably be reviewing it on my channel once it arrives.
@@evanhilton279 what did you go for? Been eyeing up the 153 DL 29'er - But waiting for @VanCan sight review.
Now torn seeing what the Optic can handle, but for the weight & $$ you can get more mm's elsewhere (for the less talented moments, on a 140r/150f 27.5 ATM).
@@GLOBc I got the process 153 CR 29, I was looking at the base model but I realized how much it offered for the price. honestly the components on the CR and the DL are pretty much the same other than just different brands. I'd much rather pay the $4,700 than the 5400 or whatever it is because you pretty much get the same amount of bike.
there can never be enough travel...
reminds me of santa cruz tallboy
Man you have great trails there...
Cool bike
Are you going to try the new Sight? Hope so, since it's on the top of my short list.
On Patreon now and out next week!
Awesome!
can you test a Trek Slash or Fuel EX or Remedy?