I have been using front wides for over 10yrs and its getting better every year but you can't convince most people og this I'm running 9.4.6...love it...glad you keep telling the misinformed people that think no signal same people that say dolby atmos is not in movie content...great video
I changed my system to 7.1.6 from 7.1.4. My Arcam AVR supports this processing. Now I find that a lot of movies are putting sound in to the centre heights rather than using the front and back heights. I can’t find any movies in 7.1.6 that utilises all 6 heights well. We do need a full list.
It's taken awhile for some mixers to jump on the Dolby Atmos bandwagon, specifically using tops/heights, but it's getting better. The same can be said for Front Wides. Are they worth having today? Meh, in some cases. But down the road, they'll probably be utilized much more. Just don't plan on Disney using Front Wides anytime in the next 20 years - lol. Gene is spot-on with his comments about angled speakers. I have a very narrow room that isn't conducive to a 9.2.6 setup, but I did it anyway. My front wides are bookshelves on wall mounts and pointed towards the MLP. I could have done in-wall and just angled the walls/boxes, as well.
I just picked this video at random to make a comment. I have been trying out, what seems like forever (but has only been a couple hours) to get my Sony 4K UHD Blu-Ray player to cooperate with my Denon X4700/Tonewinner AD8300 combination, along with the rear heights I added a couple days ago for a 7.2.4 system. I chatted with Denon and Sony and still couldn't get it to work...until I Googled my player plus Atmos and found your blog sight with posts on the very subject and my model and right after changing the settings and hitting resume movie, the movie "1917" came alive in Dolby Atmos :) Bravo to your members. Happy Friday the 13th!!
Recently finished building my 9.2.6 theater using a lot of the advice you've provided over the years. I used all DefTech UIW in walls and mythos ten on walls throughout. When building I towed in the front wides just as you describe in this video and the result is phenomenal. Thanks Gene!
I remember earlier videos where you were critical of atmos and maybe called it gimmicky. I really respect anyone that is willing to change their opinions based on experience and new information. It’s why I am a fan of Audioholics.
I'm to the other end of the spectrum, I can change my mind and opinions on sounds day to day. I'll sent up 9.1.6 and like it, then the next day do something different and like it and then go back and forth.
Just listened to the Blu ray pure audio Ten Years After SDE release . Has the wide channels in use. (Dolby Atmos) Sounds wonderful!!! I use DTS-X often with music using my wide speakers. Really open things up. Try it Thanks for this vid!
I feel it’s well advised to build a system around the established formats that are deep into the adoption cycle, rather than trying to future proof by pre-empting the content creation industry. So it’s very reassuring to see a trend coalescing around 9.1.6 as it brings clarity and ease of mind to pulling the trigger on a new receiver. As much as I advocate future formats to adopt a mirrored bed layer and height layer. 7.1.7 or 9.1.9 I’ll be following the movie and gaming industries lead by building my system around the formats that people are mixing and publishing. At least until we move past channel based mixes and into processing full object based 3 dimensional sound fields, which can adapt spacial cues for speakers placed in any configuration.
Great video Gene. I'm really pleased you made this. I often read (and even watch videos) where people talk about not bothering with front wides due to lack of content. This is completely untrue. My dedicated room is a 9.4.4 setup and found so much content with front wides, especially Atmos music. Many of my 4k disks use front wides and I've found great content on Netflix, Apple TV etc that uses front wides. Mine are wall mounted and angled in towards the MLP at the same height as the LCR.
I would prefer 6 heights over wides if I had to make w choice. I'm getting ready to upgrade to 7.4.6 (from 5.2.2) so thats where I'm going now. Maybe I will add Wides in my next upgrade.
I have an older onkyo system the only options I have is either , Two height speakers, two wide speakers, or two rear speakers, which currently I have set up in my 7.2 system.
I have the room and I just got the Cinema 30. My system is all Klipsch RP towers except the center (504C). I just happened to have the RP600M's in the closet, so I figured, why not try it out.
I enjoy my wides. I can't always tell when they are active but sometimes it's quite apparent. Overall, it's not something that I would specifically upgrade for, but when considering an upgrade I would add it to the checklist. I had the ability to do them for well over a year before I actually added them. Later on, when I went to upgrade my amps I made sure to have two extra channels, and then I started thinking about which speakers, and how to place them.
I had wides for years .. My problem with Atmos mixes is that most don't have any wide information so the channel stays quiet and then on another movie there is some occasional sound and if you are really lucky you get a lot of activity. I would prefer it to be always included I'm not quiet on some movies and then you activate neural x and it does a good job but then you lose the discrete Dolby so somewhat it's not consistent. If we have a system we would like it to sound the same every time and not depending on the movie having some quiet blind spots. Toby should have a feature to matrix the wide channels if they are non present in the mix. That may very well be with turn off and storm audio but I'm talking for the everyday man receivers.
AWESOME video, Gene. Without having installed my system yet, I'm still a bit confused as to how to best upmix everything to include Wides? What processing mode always works best?
Really informative video. would love for more classical recordings to make use of front wides. A lot of early reflections in halls come from the region that front wides cover.
Streaming content should not be channel limited. It SHOULD be able to scale all the way up to 24.1.10. However, if the mixer uses primarily a bed channel mix, then it will be limited to 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 just as with Blu Ray. If the mixer makes heavy use of active objects, it will make use of any atmos config out there. We just need to encourage studios to make more dynamic/active mixes.
@@Audioholics Netflix is doing great work. They encourage their creators to mix using 9.1.6 dub stages. Thats why some of the Netflix shows have such great sounding Atmos like Stranger Things season 4
you seem a little confused about object-based vs channel-based audio. object based audio shouldn't (and, really, doesn't, before rendering) even care about your channels. a capable enough processor should be able to decode the content to play across, as you said, up to 24.x.10 configurations. in object based audio, individual sounds are treated as if they're in an actual three-dimensional space - objects in that space. an atmos decoder then plays the objects from the most appropriate speakers in the setup, of course with predefined layouts. a competent atmos mix will always benefit from front wide speakers if there is ever any need for some sound to "come from" the space between the front speakers and surround side speakers, that means any front-to-back transitions. it's really closer to how directional audio in computer games has worked for over 2 decades now than channel-based surround sound. but hey, more and more (mixing) engineers are starting to figure it out!
@@Gamez4eveR it shouldnt care about channels, and a fully active mix does not, but a static mix using mostly bed objects acts very much like a channel based mix. It only plays from the traditionsl 7.1 channels plus 2 (top-middle) heightd or 4 (front and rear) heights. Many of Disney's earliest Atmos mixes were notorious for this and earned them the nickname "Dolby Atmouse". Fortunately sound mixers are getting better at adding more active objects into their mixes. Even a mostly static 7.1.2 bed mix will include some active objects that use all your speakers. Top-Gun: Maverick is this type of mix.
@@Gamez4eveR This is Top Gun Maverick. You will see most of the time there is a 7.1.2 bed mix, but occasionally, they'll throw in a few active objects to spice things up. Every once in a while, the objects go crazy with sounds everywhere. th-cam.com/video/gey1t1n_Dz0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5dKJvKoz7CWXcejp
I think the catch with wides is that you need a native Atmos mix with objects. Otherwise, I don't believe the DSU upmixer will use the wides. Is that still the case?
@@Audioholics Dolby Labs upgraded their Dolby Surround upmixer to utilize Front Wide speakers if the processor or receiver has the option for FW outputs.
@@Audioholics Sound United products (Denon and Marantz) with Front Wide support, like the Marantz AV10 and Denon 6700, do offer the latest Dolby Surround upmixer that has Front Wide speaker output. Trinnov Altitudes do as well. I cannot say for sure about other brands. I believe Dolby Labs was trying to compete with the upgraded Neural: X upmixer on products utilizing DTS: X Pro.
Question. Gene stated that some mixes are using wide channels, some are not. It was my understanding though that there are “static” mixes and “dynamic “ mixes. Static mixes have a fixed output assigned to each of the 7.1.4 channels. On the other hand, Dynamic mixes have the ‘objects’ in the digital sound sphere, and the processor then outputs depending upon speaker configuration, maybe even 32 channels, trying its best to place those objects in that sphere. So, a static mix would not engage speakers outside the standard 7.1.4 without some up-processing, while a dynamic mix would use whatever was available to best recreate the spatial sound sphere. Is this correct?
This makes a lot of sense though I've heard of static mixes that still use the wides despite they are supposed to be used for objects. I will have to investigate further and have more guests on our channel that are producing Atmos content.
Way ahead of you, Gene. Been running heights and on-wall wides on an AVR-4520 upmixed from 5.1 to 9.1 through DTS Neo:X Cinema. It's not Atmos, but nevertheless all surround content gets that cinema 'wall of sound' effect perfectly, and surround panning from front to back is vey well balanced. Crazy how that receiver cost me €600, while a modern upgrade in all directions these days sets you back €2.5k at least. I'll take the compromise.
I'm running 9.2.4, separates from a ToneWinner AT-300. all RBH speakers. LRs RBH SVTR towers, and RBH SV-821 center. I'm FIR BI-Amping in my own custom made PASCAL S-Pro2 + 2ch & T-Pro2 6ch DSP amplifier I designed. The surrounds are RBH SV-61Rs, custom made enclosure. and RBH SI615s for Atmos. Honestly, not a ton of wide content out there
I have a 9.2.4 setup but never managed to get the Front Wides to produce sound while watching Atmos content. Does Atmos need to have FWs included specifically so cause of the issue is that I don’t have the right content? To my believe the sound objects are processed by my 13.2 capable receiver and sound from FWs should not be dependent on the mix?
That's exactly what i was waiting for :D Thank you, I will be adding front wides, but I have a Q. If my room only allows the front wides to be on the same line ( but further into the room ) as my front left and right. should I still go with it? ( i have an Accsutic transparent screen ). Thank you again :D
Adding wides can't hurt. It's good when content uses them, but harmless when content doesn't use them. The trickier question is when to use wide synth. I find that depends on content. It can help content that could use more spaciousness - like an epic movie with a mismatched small sounding mix. For 2ch upmixing, I find the wide synth sounds best if set opposite to center spread. If center spread is on, then wide synth sounds best off. If center spread is off, then wide synth sounds best on. That's because with center spread off, a lot of music gets sent to the center speaker, where it misses out on ambience from first reflection points. Wide synth can do a nice job filling in for that. I like most 2ch content with center spread on & wide synth off, but similar to movies, it depends on the mix.
@@Audioholics I just fixed a typo that scrambled what I was trying to say. Sorry. Please reread the edited version above. Hopefully it makes more sense now. I'm using an HTP-1 which lets me independently control center spread and wide synth. I actually set up a remote macro/automation that automatically toggles center spread to be opposite wide synth. I also have it adjust bass by -3db when wide synth is engaged while playing 2ch sources so wide synth doesn't change the bass.
I heard that front wides should only be used, if your using speakers behind a fixed screen (with a projector). If your not using a fixed screen, then you don’t need wides. Also depending on your amp or receiver, if you use wides, then you will loose two Atmos. If your front main speakers are wide apart, at least 9 fee, there’s no point in wides either.
according to that logic that doesn't match for what we are doing with the back surround and sides. I don't understand why we need big gaps in the front and not in the back.
Gene, I’m a bit confused by these Atmos mixes actually being mixed in 9.1.6… I thought Atmos was an object oriented format, and therefore send sound object positional data and not pre-mixed individual channel data. If it’s just hard coded already as 5.1.4, 7.1.4, or 9.1.6 isn’t that basically just traditional channel based audio with height channels?
It is confusing. Watch our livestream tonight w David Frangioni. I thought the same as you, but he indicates otherwise, at least for spatial audio. Maybe the mixers don't pan objects to areas of the room they don't have speakers in?
@@Audioholics If they are mixing music, often there isn't much in the way of actual effects panning, so I can see why they mainly use a fixed, channel-oriented approach to immersive music. The only Atmos music I have heard utilizing most of the 34 speaker locations was REM's Automatic for the People.
Gene, do you use wide synth for non-Atmos material? Does that impact object placement for 7.1.4 if you're duplicating sound in the wides? I feel it might be doubling up in bass with the crossover from the wides in synth mode. Obviously, I love it for 9.1.6 Atmos when the wides are being incorporated, and that's becoming much more common. I have the HTP-1.
Nice vid. Unfortunately i didn't have the money to add wides to my system... that's still quite a few years off for me. But it's definetely on my list for my next upgrade. For now I'm happy with my SR7013 7.4(mono).4 setup and tinkering with upgrading the room accoustics.
I have two pairs of side surround channels for two rows of seats. Would it be better to move a surround pair to wide channel duty, and only have one pair of side surrounds for both rows of seats?
If your side surrounds aren't independently time aligned and decorellated and you just have them parallel connected off the same channel, then yes. I would probably repurpose a pair as wides and place the single pair of sides slightly behind the front row.
@@Audioholics Yes, they’re parallel connected unfortunately, which is one of the reasons I am saving up for an Trinnov. Your advice is invaluable and I will repurpose a pair of surrounds to wides and shift the surrounds back a bit until I can have more channels available. Cheers!
So Auro 13.1 is winning the channel wars and atmos is winning marketing? I’ve purchased a very expensive set of in ceilings to be told this isn’t the way to go because they can’t be angled properly. I am also hearing that an Auro 13.1 is a better graphic to deliver atmos natively. I’m so confused.
Thanks so much for the ideas Gene! I really appreciate it! I was struggling to figure out how to add Front Wides but the idea of using a ceiling speaker is great! We just built an addition with a pool table room/home theater with 12ft ceilings and a 3 foot long soffet that goes around the room. I have more than enough room to add in-ceiling speakers on the side of the soffets and angle the mid-bass and tweeter towards my listening position. I have 4 Klipsch CDT-5800-C II as height channels and am now thinking of adding two more as Front Wides. Would mounting in on the side of the wall like that and angling the speaker towards me work? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and keep up the great work! Have a fantastic day Gene! 👍 😊 🔉
I use 7.2.4 configuration with Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR connected to a Tonewinner AD7300PA+ driving Polk ES 15's, ES35 center and ES20's with 4 Pioneer Upward Firing Dolby Atmos speakers.
@squared80 no they are used more, way more, if you have max 4 ceiling, all the rich peeps with 15 complain because they can afford 6 height channels but a atmos is 6 channels max, 4 ceilings for constant wide channel usage or 6 ceiling for little or no wide channel usage
@dfalekulo9138 but the "wide channels" are only object audio. The sound used in "wide channels" is still audible in your lr and surrounds. It will offer a little more precision, but just like this video... you may need special analysis to even know its working / notice the difference. Meanwhile rears are actually discrete audio channels. Unless you have them, they won't be mixed into your surrounds.
A few years ago Gene you did several videos on front height speakers to utilize the Auro up mixer for music. Do you believe that if we make the effort to run more speaker cables into our theaters, the wide speaker placements would be more valuable? I envision more drywall work expanding my 7.2.4 theater, and yes, I wish I had the foresight to run more cables to potential speaker locations!
I think one of the things that is missed is if your L - R is already wide or narrow. Some people have AT screens and the LCR already covers the entire front wall. At that point, it depends on how far back they are to the front seat. If you have a narrow screen, like a TV and the LCR is not taking up the entire front wall, then wides can be placed 'wider' than the LCR and would likely provide better coverage before the surround left and rights. But, as you said Gene, depends on if you have room to put 'wides' in your room to begin with. I already planned for 'wides' but part of that is due to using a 77" OLED on a 13 foot front wall. The wides will be in front of the LCR, but only by a few feet... then on the wall at the sides. I can't wait to hear material that takes advantage of that! Seems to be the trend going forward!
So I wonder if there is a bit of misunderstanding in how the encode/decode process works for Atmos. And maybe David F needs to speak to this because it’s possible I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about. The mix isn’t “mixed” for wides. It’s just that your decoder can make use of the wides to further assist in the more granular placement of sound between the fronts and surrounds. I don’t think that engineers, when mixing in the Dolby renderer, have the opportunity to say “this is going to come from a front wide”. They instead say “this is going to feel like it’s coming from this point in space”. And if the front plus surround is generating that, great. If sides are generating it, great. Again, please correct me if I’m off base as I’m happy to learn. But I don’t think that there is content mixed for 9.1.6 or 7.1.4 or a sound bar or airpods. It’s all location based data and whatever decoder you have is going to do it’s best to recreate the artist intent for that sonic+spatial experience
Eric I believe you are correct and that's what David said today in our livestream. The Music studios do have fixed 7.14 or 9.1.6 speaker layouts from my understanding but if objects aren't located in the spaces where wides would be, the renderer won't put sound there. thanks for your comment.
Not sure why DSU doesn't matrix LR channels to wide channels,so that they r always active and more ppl may upgrade then. If its selectively used for limited sound formats then it wd remain a niche proposition only
I would think we are now primed for a new or upgraded format. Atmos+ or something like that. 1. High resolution 2. Only Object Based 3. Doesn’t matter your specific speaker configuration, it uses all of what you have to give you the best possible fit to the original. Seems that Atmos (really Dolby Digital Plus repackaged) is ripe for a rework. New receivers for all!
Maybe. So you argue forget about fixing the format, no resources to do it right in the first place, rely on consumers to buy equipment that can take sub-optimal content and fix it for themselves? Sad state of affairs… That is why I suggest that Atmos go all in, setting a new format that finally checks all the boxes, doesn’t allow for half-baked ‘static’ content.
@@KiterSuperfly well sure buddy, it would definitely be better if the studios dedecated proper time, money and resources to do it the best. But the bean counters would prob say poor ROI, and pump that sht through like cattle. So if we can't get art from the artists to do the atmos mix correct then yeah, I guess it's sad and we have to rely on DSP upmixers.
Research in human hearing has proven that information from the Wide channels is much more critical in the presentation of a realistic soundstage than the Back Surround channels found in traditional 7.1 systems. From the owner's manual of my Denon X3100. And I, frankly, couldn't agree more. I feel like I'm getting next to nothing from the surround backs. By the way, I'm relying on what Dolby Pro Logic and Audyssey DSX send to the front wide, which ain't too shabby.
I told you ...reading the comments on hear says it all...i am the type that if you are going to do something go all the way...i got tire of going up in the attic
@@Audioholics right, but only "objects" will appear on those "wide" channels. They are not discrete audio bed layer channels like 7.1. I'm not saying it's nothing, but it will never be as important as the discrete channels in the current format. And especially with streaming, the total bandwdith available for those objects is teeny tiny.
Sure whatever works for the person. But I think there is some concept about, and this is a tad risque, the L and R location for movies vs 2 channel music. I think we all learned something about equilateral L and R to the mlp. But for movies the new concept is the L and R need to be at the location of the L and R of the end of the TV. So not following the old ideal of pretty wide L and R. Somehow the matching of the action might be better if the L and R channels are in line with the ends of the tv, idk. Anyway, that leaves room for the wides farther outside of the tv space then. I don't know, it sounds interesting and like I said whatever works for the person. Chears.
Hmm, I have 5.1.2 currently but want to get to 7.1.4 or 7.2.4. 9.X.6 would be pretty crazy, my processor (Anthem MRX 740 8k) wouldn't even support that
Maybe I'm doing something wrong or my XMC-2 Dolby upmixer simply doesn't utilize the wides, but they are simply a complete waste of space. There's barely any movies in Atmos that light those speakers up. So I would say buyer beware on this one, almost snake oil territory. Also HBO Max on my Apple TV only outputs 5.1, so not sure how you got the wides working on the last of us.
2nd gen Apple TV my friend. I don't doubt there is a setting in my processor that's inhibiting full pass through. I've followed your setup video on Apple TV, so the settings there are good. Regardless, I still stand by my critique on the wides, a vanishingly small amount of content that will actually use them or you need a processor that's on point with up mixing ... just too many stars have to align.
@@charlessailer4580 I just check my TLOS and is says atmos in the description on my roku. Did you ever figure out why you wern't getting atmos on tlos?
I don't see the need for this. I think the need for this is created by poor placement of the right and left mains. I like my mains placed around 14 inches from the side walls. In my system strong phantom images are created outside the boundaries of the room, especially the sides and front of the room. My system regularly creates the illusion of a space far larger than the actual room. I can't see that front wide speakers would add anything. I'm pretty sure they would be a downgrade and interfere with my left and right mains.
I appreciate the content... but frankly its all starting to become a bit too much - even more speakers now to timbre match and new receiver that can handle all the channels. Starts to feel like a money grab from these companies.
well it's just levels of a hobby. You should see my buddies car and my wives garden, stupid levels of too much for me, but they love it. I don't care about timbre match, in fact I want different tweeters on purpose cause I own the rights to my ideas of fun in my hobby, hehe. I have two avr's that I connected together to get something like 9.6.10
All atmos uses wides, everyone just doesnt understand the below: Atmos is 6 channels, max 4 ceiling if you want wides to ALWAYS work, if you have 6 ceiling speakers, a lot of movies won't use the wides unless 4 ceiling speakers. Confirmed with videos from elan and spare change, one movie for example they both don't get wide out put but I would. ATMOS IS A SCAM or are they not collaborating with receiver tech well, can't be spending more on channels to lose content
I.only use 4 heights and wides are not present on most mixes. As David said, if the mixer doesn't out objects in the locations were wides would be, they channels will remain silent.
@Audioholics there's not a single atmos anything, I mean everything, disney shows, series, as long as its atmos, that hasn't had my wides on in discreet, this is what I don't understand my receiver isn't magic, movies where nothing goes on for people with more channels, my wides are discreet NOT matrixed. Maybe it's only when the rears are off with fronts then, There's object atmos and static atmos, depending where in the 3d space it is for meta data, the closest speaker will act accordingly so from experience its just always working so why
@@dfalekulo9138 So I'll try this, I'll just select 9.1.0, disengage all heights. Any you're telling me I will get atmos sounds from all 9 speakers depending on the scene?
@trauma50disaster1 it's possible that I was a bit incorrect, I use only 2 surrounds no rear, with that yes full atmos discrete effects. I honestly don't believe 7 is so much better than 5, in parasyte some rear sounds seemed a bit more forward though. But without a doubt, more atmos for me
I have been using front wides for over 10yrs and its getting better every year but you can't convince most people og this I'm running 9.4.6...love it...glad you keep telling the misinformed people that think no signal same people that say dolby atmos is not in movie content...great video
We need a running list somewhere online of movies that noticeably support 4 height channels, as well as a list for 9.1.6.
I changed my system to 7.1.6 from 7.1.4. My Arcam AVR supports this processing. Now I find that a lot of movies are putting sound in to the centre heights rather than using the front and back heights. I can’t find any movies in 7.1.6 that utilises all 6 heights well. We do need a full list.
It’s been my impression that Netflix pushes a lot of 6 atmos speaker content
@@nespressoman Auro 3D will up mix Dolby Atmos to 7.1.6 or more. It does a really good job in my HT.
It's taken awhile for some mixers to jump on the Dolby Atmos bandwagon, specifically using tops/heights, but it's getting better. The same can be said for Front Wides. Are they worth having today? Meh, in some cases. But down the road, they'll probably be utilized much more. Just don't plan on Disney using Front Wides anytime in the next 20 years - lol.
Gene is spot-on with his comments about angled speakers. I have a very narrow room that isn't conducive to a 9.2.6 setup, but I did it anyway. My front wides are bookshelves on wall mounts and pointed towards the MLP. I could have done in-wall and just angled the walls/boxes, as well.
I just picked this video at random to make a comment. I have been trying out, what seems like forever (but has only been a couple hours) to get my Sony 4K UHD Blu-Ray player to cooperate with my Denon X4700/Tonewinner AD8300 combination, along with the rear heights I added a couple days ago for a 7.2.4 system. I chatted with Denon and Sony and still couldn't get it to work...until I Googled my player plus Atmos and found your blog sight with posts on the very subject and my model and right after changing the settings and hitting resume movie, the movie "1917" came alive in Dolby Atmos :) Bravo to your members. Happy Friday the 13th!!
Recently finished building my 9.2.6 theater using a lot of the advice you've provided over the years. I used all DefTech UIW in walls and mythos ten on walls throughout. When building I towed in the front wides just as you describe in this video and the result is phenomenal. Thanks Gene!
I remember earlier videos where you were critical of atmos and maybe called it gimmicky.
I really respect anyone that is willing to change their opinions based on experience and new information. It’s why I am a fan of Audioholics.
I called Atmos bouncy house speakers gimmicky but NEVER the format. But, yes I often re-evaluate my opinions as time goes on and tech changes.
I'm to the other end of the spectrum, I can change my mind and opinions on sounds day to day. I'll sent up 9.1.6 and like it, then the next day do something different and like it and then go back and forth.
Just listened to the Blu ray pure audio Ten Years After SDE release . Has the wide channels in use. (Dolby Atmos) Sounds wonderful!!!
I use DTS-X often with music using my wide speakers. Really open things up.
Try it
Thanks for this vid!
I feel it’s well advised to build a system around the established formats that are deep into the adoption cycle, rather than trying to future proof by pre-empting the content creation industry.
So it’s very reassuring to see a trend coalescing around 9.1.6 as it brings clarity and ease of mind to pulling the trigger on a new receiver.
As much as I advocate future formats to adopt a mirrored bed layer and height layer. 7.1.7 or 9.1.9 I’ll be following the movie and gaming industries lead by building my system around the formats that people are mixing and publishing.
At least until we move past channel based mixes and into processing full object based 3 dimensional sound fields, which can adapt spacial cues for speakers placed in any configuration.
This was an eye-opener for me. Thanks for putting it out here!
Great video Gene. I'm really pleased you made this. I often read (and even watch videos) where people talk about not bothering with front wides due to lack of content. This is completely untrue. My dedicated room is a 9.4.4 setup and found so much content with front wides, especially Atmos music. Many of my 4k disks use front wides and I've found great content on Netflix, Apple TV etc that uses front wides.
Mine are wall mounted and angled in towards the MLP at the same height as the LCR.
Anyone dissing wide channels likely have never heard a system with them integrated.
I would prefer 6 heights over wides if I had to make w choice. I'm getting ready to upgrade to 7.4.6 (from 5.2.2) so thats where I'm going now. Maybe I will add Wides in my next upgrade.
I have an older onkyo system the only options I have is either , Two height speakers, two wide speakers, or two rear speakers, which currently I have set up in my 7.2 system.
I have the room and I just got the Cinema 30. My system is all Klipsch RP towers except the center (504C). I just happened to have the RP600M's in the closet, so I figured, why not try it out.
I'd get way more subs before I got wides. To each their own but I'm at 5.4.4 and have no regrets in any of my seats.
Just when I thought I was done buying speakers...Thanks Gene!!! Lol! As long there not Front Wide Bouncy House Speakers...Lol!!!
Take a listen to “Strawberry Fields Forever”. The L&R front speakers aren’t used. Another interesting mix is “Eye of the Tiger”
I enjoy my wides. I can't always tell when they are active but sometimes it's quite apparent. Overall, it's not something that I would specifically upgrade for, but when considering an upgrade I would add it to the checklist. I had the ability to do them for well over a year before I actually added them. Later on, when I went to upgrade my amps I made sure to have two extra channels, and then I started thinking about which speakers, and how to place them.
I thoroughly enjoy my wide channels through my 8805. I run 4 height channels to do it and I will never go back.
I had wides for years .. My problem with Atmos mixes is that most don't have any wide information so the channel stays quiet and then on another movie there is some occasional sound and if you are really lucky you get a lot of activity. I would prefer it to be always included I'm not quiet on some movies and then you activate neural x and it does a good job but then you lose the discrete Dolby so somewhat it's not consistent. If we have a system we would like it to sound the same every time and not depending on the movie having some quiet blind spots. Toby should have a feature to matrix the wide channels if they are non present in the mix. That may very well be with turn off and storm audio but I'm talking for the everyday man receivers.
Hummm, what about the front wides (with Yamaha) that go on the front stage wall above the left and right floor speakers?
AWESOME video, Gene. Without having installed my system yet, I'm still a bit confused as to how to best upmix everything to include Wides? What processing mode always works best?
Really informative video. would love for more classical recordings to make use of front wides. A lot of early reflections in halls come from the region that front wides cover.
Is the Storm Audio AVR upmixing to those front wides? Because my Marantz AV 10 will only upmix only up to 7.1. Anything Atmos or DTS:X is not upmixed.
Streaming content should not be channel limited. It SHOULD be able to scale all the way up to 24.1.10. However, if the mixer uses primarily a bed channel mix, then it will be limited to 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 just as with Blu Ray.
If the mixer makes heavy use of active objects, it will make use of any atmos config out there. We just need to encourage studios to make more dynamic/active mixes.
Great points!
@@Audioholics Netflix is doing great work. They encourage their creators to mix using 9.1.6 dub stages. Thats why some of the Netflix shows have such great sounding Atmos like Stranger Things season 4
you seem a little confused about object-based vs channel-based audio.
object based audio shouldn't (and, really, doesn't, before rendering) even care about your channels. a capable enough processor should be able to decode the content to play across, as you said, up to 24.x.10 configurations.
in object based audio, individual sounds are treated as if they're in an actual three-dimensional space - objects in that space. an atmos decoder then plays the objects from the most appropriate speakers in the setup, of course with predefined layouts.
a competent atmos mix will always benefit from front wide speakers if there is ever any need for some sound to "come from" the space between the front speakers and surround side speakers, that means any front-to-back transitions. it's really closer to how directional audio in computer games has worked for over 2 decades now than channel-based surround sound.
but hey, more and more (mixing) engineers are starting to figure it out!
@@Gamez4eveR it shouldnt care about channels, and a fully active mix does not, but a static mix using mostly bed objects acts very much like a channel based mix. It only plays from the traditionsl 7.1 channels plus 2 (top-middle) heightd or 4 (front and rear) heights. Many of Disney's earliest Atmos mixes were notorious for this and earned them the nickname "Dolby Atmouse". Fortunately sound mixers are getting better at adding more active objects into their mixes. Even a mostly static 7.1.2 bed mix will include some active objects that use all your speakers. Top-Gun: Maverick is this type of mix.
@@Gamez4eveR This is Top Gun Maverick. You will see most of the time there is a 7.1.2 bed mix, but occasionally, they'll throw in a few active objects to spice things up. Every once in a while, the objects go crazy with sounds everywhere.
th-cam.com/video/gey1t1n_Dz0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5dKJvKoz7CWXcejp
I think the catch with wides is that you need a native Atmos mix with objects. Otherwise, I don't believe the DSU upmixer will use the wides. Is that still the case?
I think you are correct. DSU doesn't upmix to wides unless your processor offers the option through DSP.
@@Audioholics Dolby Labs upgraded their Dolby Surround upmixer to utilize Front Wide speakers if the processor or receiver has the option for FW outputs.
@Dan Hitchman where is this documented? My Storm processor doesn't do this. I haven't tested on Marantz AV 10 since that system isn't using wides.
@@Audioholics Sound United products (Denon and Marantz) with Front Wide support, like the Marantz AV10 and Denon 6700, do offer the latest Dolby Surround upmixer that has Front Wide speaker output. Trinnov Altitudes do as well. I cannot say for sure about other brands. I believe Dolby Labs was trying to compete with the upgraded Neural: X upmixer on products utilizing DTS: X Pro.
@@dan_hitchman007 How about an Anthem AVM70? I would have assumed any processor that has the latest DSU/DTS version can upmix to include Wides?
Question. Gene stated that some mixes are using wide channels, some are not. It was my understanding though that there are “static” mixes and “dynamic “ mixes.
Static mixes have a fixed output assigned to each of the 7.1.4 channels.
On the other hand, Dynamic mixes have the ‘objects’ in the digital sound sphere, and the processor then outputs depending upon speaker configuration, maybe even 32 channels, trying its best to place those objects in that sphere.
So, a static mix would not engage speakers outside the standard 7.1.4 without some up-processing, while a dynamic mix would use whatever was available to best recreate the spatial sound sphere. Is this correct?
This makes a lot of sense though I've heard of static mixes that still use the wides despite they are supposed to be used for objects. I will have to investigate further and have more guests on our channel that are producing Atmos content.
yea that's probably where neural x (not sure if the DSU upmixer uses front wides if you have them or not) comes in handy
Way ahead of you, Gene. Been running heights and on-wall wides on an AVR-4520 upmixed from 5.1 to 9.1 through DTS Neo:X Cinema. It's not Atmos, but nevertheless all surround content gets that cinema 'wall of sound' effect perfectly, and surround panning from front to back is vey well balanced. Crazy how that receiver cost me €600, while a modern upgrade in all directions these days sets you back €2.5k at least. I'll take the compromise.
I'm running 9.2.4, separates from a ToneWinner AT-300.
all RBH speakers.
LRs RBH SVTR towers, and RBH SV-821 center.
I'm FIR BI-Amping in my own custom made PASCAL S-Pro2 + 2ch & T-Pro2 6ch DSP amplifier I designed.
The surrounds are RBH SV-61Rs, custom made enclosure.
and RBH SI615s for Atmos.
Honestly, not a ton of wide content out there
for Spatial Audio music there is.
I was very suprised how much info was sent to my side channels. Glad i installed them
Great video. Got a question regarding the video side of theater setup. What is the best tv to add pair with my demon 13.5 channel receiver?
If you are doing an actual home theater, you need a 4k projector, not a flat panel.
I have a 9.2.4 setup but never managed to get the Front Wides to produce sound while watching Atmos content. Does Atmos need to have FWs included specifically so cause of the issue is that I don’t have the right content? To my believe the sound objects are processed by my 13.2 capable receiver and sound from FWs should not be dependent on the mix?
That's exactly what i was waiting for :D
Thank you, I will be adding front wides, but I have a Q. If my room only allows the front wides to be on the same line ( but further into the room ) as my front left and right. should I still go with it? ( i have an Accsutic transparent screen ).
Thank you again :D
I'm doing that, it seems to work fine. Did you ever setup wides?
Adding wides can't hurt. It's good when content uses them, but harmless when content doesn't use them. The trickier question is when to use wide synth. I find that depends on content. It can help content that could use more spaciousness - like an epic movie with a mismatched small sounding mix.
For 2ch upmixing, I find the wide synth sounds best if set opposite to center spread. If center spread is on, then wide synth sounds best off. If center spread is off, then wide synth sounds best on. That's because with center spread off, a lot of music gets sent to the center speaker, where it misses out on ambience from first reflection points. Wide synth can do a nice job filling in for that. I like most 2ch content with center spread on & wide synth off, but similar to movies, it depends on the mix.
What processor you using that allows this?
@@Audioholics I just fixed a typo that scrambled what I was trying to say. Sorry. Please reread the edited version above. Hopefully it makes more sense now.
I'm using an HTP-1 which lets me independently control center spread and wide synth. I actually set up a remote macro/automation that automatically toggles center spread to be opposite wide synth. I also have it adjust bass by -3db when wide synth is engaged while playing 2ch sources so wide synth doesn't change the bass.
I heard that front wides should only be used, if your using speakers behind a fixed screen (with a projector). If your not using a fixed screen, then you don’t need wides. Also depending on your amp or receiver, if you use wides, then you will loose two Atmos. If your front main speakers are wide apart, at least 9 fee, there’s no point in wides either.
according to that logic that doesn't match for what we are doing with the back surround and sides. I don't understand why we need big gaps in the front and not in the back.
Gene, I’m a bit confused by these Atmos mixes actually being mixed in 9.1.6… I thought Atmos was an object oriented format, and therefore send sound object positional data and not pre-mixed individual channel data. If it’s just hard coded already as 5.1.4, 7.1.4, or 9.1.6 isn’t that basically just traditional channel based audio with height channels?
It is confusing. Watch our livestream tonight w David Frangioni. I thought the same as you, but he indicates otherwise, at least for spatial audio. Maybe the mixers don't pan objects to areas of the room they don't have speakers in?
@@Audioholics If they are mixing music, often there isn't much in the way of actual effects panning, so I can see why they mainly use a fixed, channel-oriented approach to immersive music. The only Atmos music I have heard utilizing most of the 34 speaker locations was REM's Automatic for the People.
I purpose-built a pair of DIYSG HTM-8s with the rear of the boxes angled 45° for deployment on the walls.
Gene, do you use wide synth for non-Atmos material? Does that impact object placement for 7.1.4 if you're duplicating sound in the wides? I feel it might be doubling up in bass with the crossover from the wides in synth mode. Obviously, I love it for 9.1.6 Atmos when the wides are being incorporated, and that's becoming much more common. I have the HTP-1.
I don't think my processor has that feature. Only dts:X upmixer uses wides for 2CH but I'm not a huge fan of that upmixer.
Hello Sir.. does Rbh speakers match with Revel performa? Revel doesnt have option for these kind angled baffle speakers... thanks
Yes, I think they would go well together.
@Audioholics thank you sir..
Would wide channels need to be the same height as the front? On wall with and angle seem idea to me.
Ideally yes but often impractical. I like the idea of in-wall w angle and have been seeing this done in installs with great success.
Nice vid.
Unfortunately i didn't have the money to add wides to my system... that's still quite a few years off for me. But it's definetely on my list for my next upgrade. For now I'm happy with my SR7013 7.4(mono).4 setup and tinkering with upgrading the room accoustics.
I have two pairs of side surround channels for two rows of seats. Would it be better to move a surround pair to wide channel duty, and only have one pair of side surrounds for both rows of seats?
If your side surrounds aren't independently time aligned and decorellated and you just have them parallel connected off the same channel, then yes. I would probably repurpose a pair as wides and place the single pair of sides slightly behind the front row.
@@Audioholics Yes, they’re parallel connected unfortunately, which is one of the reasons I am saving up for an Trinnov. Your advice is invaluable and I will repurpose a pair of surrounds to wides and shift the surrounds back a bit until I can have more channels available. Cheers!
what kinda AVR are you currently using at the moment though because not all of them support front wides..... unfortunately
@@demonreturns4336 A temporary Tonewinner AT-300 pre amp while I save for a good one.
So Auro 13.1 is winning the channel wars and atmos is winning marketing? I’ve purchased a very expensive set of in ceilings to be told this isn’t the way to go because they can’t be angled properly. I am also hearing that an Auro 13.1 is a better graphic to deliver atmos natively. I’m so confused.
How do you know which movies offer wide channels?
Sadly, you really don't
Thanks so much for the ideas Gene!
I really appreciate it!
I was struggling to figure out how to add Front Wides but the idea of using a ceiling speaker is great!
We just built an addition with a pool table room/home theater with 12ft ceilings and a 3 foot long soffet that goes around the room.
I have more than enough room to add in-ceiling speakers on the side of the soffets and angle the mid-bass and tweeter towards my listening position.
I have 4 Klipsch CDT-5800-C II as height channels and am now thinking of adding two more as Front Wides.
Would mounting in on the side of the wall like that and angling the speaker towards me work?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time and keep up the great work!
Have a fantastic day Gene! 👍 😊 🔉
Can a x3800h do front wides ?
No Sir! The A1H, X6700 and the 8500H can produce front wides... None the 9ch version can produce front wides...
I use 7.2.4 configuration with Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR connected to a Tonewinner AD7300PA+ driving Polk ES 15's, ES35 center and ES20's with 4 Pioneer Upward Firing Dolby Atmos speakers.
I've got 5.1.4, would it make more sense to add wide to the front as opposed to a second set of rears
If you're not running back channels, add those first.
Wides are only object audio which you will still get even on 5.1. So definitely get those rear discrete audio channels up and running first.
No, add rears. Front wides are the least used speakers right now.
@squared80 no they are used more, way more, if you have max 4 ceiling, all the rich peeps with 15 complain because they can afford 6 height channels but a atmos is 6 channels max, 4 ceilings for constant wide channel usage or 6 ceiling for little or no wide channel usage
@dfalekulo9138 but the "wide channels" are only object audio. The sound used in "wide channels" is still audible in your lr and surrounds. It will offer a little more precision, but just like this video... you may need special analysis to even know its working / notice the difference.
Meanwhile rears are actually discrete audio channels. Unless you have them, they won't be mixed into your surrounds.
Are wide channels used for up mixing? I.e. 5.1 to 9.1?
Depends on your processor
My Marantz SR-8015 use them in Dolby & DTS up mixing but not Auro. I have a 9.2.4 setup with external amplification for the main FL.
@@Audioholics Do we know about the Anthem AVM70 ??
A few years ago Gene you did several videos on front height speakers to utilize the Auro up mixer for music. Do you believe that if we make the effort to run more speaker cables into our theaters, the wide speaker placements would be more valuable? I envision more drywall work expanding my 7.2.4 theater, and yes, I wish I had the foresight to run more cables to potential speaker locations!
If you already have a base 7CH layout and 4 heights in a small room or 6 in a larger room, then I'd definitely consider adding wides.
I think one of the things that is missed is if your L - R is already wide or narrow. Some people have AT screens and the LCR already covers the entire front wall. At that point, it depends on how far back they are to the front seat. If you have a narrow screen, like a TV and the LCR is not taking up the entire front wall, then wides can be placed 'wider' than the LCR and would likely provide better coverage before the surround left and rights. But, as you said Gene, depends on if you have room to put 'wides' in your room to begin with. I already planned for 'wides' but part of that is due to using a 77" OLED on a 13 foot front wall. The wides will be in front of the LCR, but only by a few feet... then on the wall at the sides. I can't wait to hear material that takes advantage of that! Seems to be the trend going forward!
So I wonder if there is a bit of misunderstanding in how the encode/decode process works for Atmos. And maybe David F needs to speak to this because it’s possible I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about.
The mix isn’t “mixed” for wides. It’s just that your decoder can make use of the wides to further assist in the more granular placement of sound between the fronts and surrounds. I don’t think that engineers, when mixing in the Dolby renderer, have the opportunity to say “this is going to come from a front wide”. They instead say “this is going to feel like it’s coming from this point in space”. And if the front plus surround is generating that, great. If sides are generating it, great. Again, please correct me if I’m off base as I’m happy to learn. But I don’t think that there is content mixed for 9.1.6 or 7.1.4 or a sound bar or airpods. It’s all location based data and whatever decoder you have is going to do it’s best to recreate the artist intent for that sonic+spatial experience
Eric I believe you are correct and that's what David said today in our livestream. The Music studios do have fixed 7.14 or 9.1.6 speaker layouts from my understanding but if objects aren't located in the spaces where wides would be, the renderer won't put sound there. thanks for your comment.
Interesting thanks for the info Gene
Not sure why DSU doesn't matrix LR channels to wide channels,so that they r always active and more ppl may upgrade then. If its selectively used for limited sound formats then it wd remain a niche proposition only
Agreed, the DSU needs to be updated.
@@Audioholics It was.
Thanks Gene! And thanks for your Marantz AV 10 VIDEO REVIEW! Really Really waiting for your Marantz AMP10 review.. Any eta on that??
It's under peer review RN, hopefully I can release my Amp 10 test report next week.
@@Audioholics Keep up the great work Kind Sir!
Can't understand how manufacturers of inwall speakers don't have options to angle them it seems obvious.
I use two center channels for wides. Sounds better than my bookshelfs did.
Hilarious hearing Gene complain about the size of the M215 sub - doesn’t he have those refrigerator size RBH speakers in his room? Lol
Remember when Audyssey had this option?
Yes they flew me out for their first demo of this and I met Tom Holman as well!
I use 9.1.2 configuration instead of 7.1.4 with Denon AVR-X7200HA.
You'd get a lot more out of a 7.1.4.
@@squared80 not in my room
I would think we are now primed for a new or upgraded format. Atmos+ or something like that.
1. High resolution
2. Only Object Based
3. Doesn’t matter your specific speaker configuration, it uses all of what you have to give you the best possible fit to the original.
Seems that Atmos (really Dolby Digital Plus repackaged) is ripe for a rework. New receivers for all!
With sound engineers getting no time or resources to do great custom atmos work then yes, an upmixer for me is good. btw aren't you describing dtsX?
Maybe. So you argue forget about fixing the format, no resources to do it right in the first place, rely on consumers to buy equipment that can take sub-optimal content and fix it for themselves? Sad state of affairs…
That is why I suggest that Atmos go all in, setting a new format that finally checks all the boxes, doesn’t allow for half-baked ‘static’ content.
@@KiterSuperfly well sure buddy, it would definitely be better if the studios dedecated proper time, money and resources to do it the best. But the bean counters would prob say poor ROI, and pump that sht through like cattle. So if we can't get art from the artists to do the atmos mix correct then yeah, I guess it's sad and we have to rely on DSP upmixers.
Research in human hearing has proven that information from the Wide channels is much more critical in the presentation of a realistic soundstage than the Back Surround channels found in traditional 7.1 systems.
From the owner's manual of my Denon X3100.
And I, frankly, couldn't agree more. I feel like I'm getting next to nothing from the surround backs.
By the way, I'm relying on what Dolby Pro Logic and Audyssey DSX send to the front wide, which ain't too shabby.
Inwall front wides great idea Gene
I told you ...reading the comments on hear says it all...i am the type that if you are going to do something go all the way...i got tire of going up in the attic
My room won't work for front wide channels but is set up perfect for rear wide channels. Would the atmos decoder allow for that?
No use rear heights in that scenario.
Only a Trinnov Altitude processor or possibly a Storm Audio unit with a sufficient amount of configurable channel outputs.
More cowbell! More cowbell! Wait… I mean more speakers! More speakers!
Will adding some bipolar speakers(already have them in a closet) at ear level and in the right positions work on this scenario as wides?
You can try it.
Yes the Krix Phonix and Hyperphonix have the said angled bracket you are referring to Gene
Well ONLY object audio will appear in those wide channels....
Wides are considered bed level
@@Audioholics right, but only "objects" will appear on those "wide" channels. They are not discrete audio bed layer channels like 7.1.
I'm not saying it's nothing, but it will never be as important as the discrete channels in the current format. And especially with streaming, the total bandwdith available for those objects is teeny tiny.
@Aussie Expat 2 understood. Yea I consider wides icing on the cake. Add after 7.1.4 is established.
I wish i pre wired for wides. 😢
Most movies for wides are very rara
IMO it is more important to get the angles for L/R correct. When they are sufficiently wide I don't feel like I am missing anything without wides.
Sure whatever works for the person. But I think there is some concept about, and this is a tad risque, the L and R location for movies vs 2 channel music. I think we all learned something about equilateral L and R to the mlp. But for movies the new concept is the L and R need to be at the location of the L and R of the end of the TV. So not following the old ideal of pretty wide L and R. Somehow the matching of the action might be better if the L and R channels are in line with the ends of the tv, idk. Anyway, that leaves room for the wides farther outside of the tv space then. I don't know, it sounds interesting and like I said whatever works for the person. Chears.
Hmm, I have 5.1.2 currently but want to get to 7.1.4 or 7.2.4. 9.X.6 would be pretty crazy, my processor (Anthem MRX 740 8k) wouldn't even support that
Maybe I'm doing something wrong or my XMC-2 Dolby upmixer simply doesn't utilize the wides, but they are simply a complete waste of space. There's barely any movies in Atmos that light those speakers up. So I would say buyer beware on this one, almost snake oil territory. Also HBO Max on my Apple TV only outputs 5.1, so not sure how you got the wides working on the last of us.
Snake oil, really?? 😆
You must have an old AppleTV or improper settings if you're only getting 5.1.
2nd gen Apple TV my friend. I don't doubt there is a setting in my processor that's inhibiting full pass through. I've followed your setup video on Apple TV, so the settings there are good. Regardless, I still stand by my critique on the wides, a vanishingly small amount of content that will actually use them or you need a processor that's on point with up mixing ... just too many stars have to align.
@@charlessailer4580 I just check my TLOS and is says atmos in the description on my roku. Did you ever figure out why you wern't getting atmos on tlos?
Wide Channels????
I don't see the need for this. I think the need for this is created by poor placement of the right and left mains. I like my mains placed around 14 inches from the side walls. In my system strong phantom images are created outside the boundaries of the room, especially the sides and front of the room. My system regularly creates the illusion of a space far larger than the actual room. I can't see that front wide speakers would add anything. I'm pretty sure they would be a downgrade and interfere with my left and right mains.
I Have the same imaging properties with my main Left/Right speakers in 2CH. Atmos and wides can add even more layering.
I appreciate the content... but frankly its all starting to become a bit too much - even more speakers now to timbre match and new receiver that can handle all the channels. Starts to feel like a money grab from these companies.
Understandable concern
well it's just levels of a hobby. You should see my buddies car and my wives garden, stupid levels of too much for me, but they love it. I don't care about timbre match, in fact I want different tweeters on purpose cause I own the rights to my ideas of fun in my hobby, hehe. I have two avr's that I connected together to get something like 9.6.10
All atmos uses wides, everyone just doesnt understand the below:
Atmos is 6 channels, max 4 ceiling if you want wides to ALWAYS work, if you have 6 ceiling speakers, a lot of movies won't use the wides unless 4 ceiling speakers.
Confirmed with videos from elan and spare change, one movie for example they both don't get wide out put but I would.
ATMOS IS A SCAM or are they not collaborating with receiver tech well, can't be spending more on channels to lose content
I.only use 4 heights and wides are not present on most mixes. As David said, if the mixer doesn't out objects in the locations were wides would be, they channels will remain silent.
@Audioholics there's not a single atmos anything, I mean everything, disney shows, series, as long as its atmos, that hasn't had my wides on in discreet, this is what I don't understand my receiver isn't magic, movies where nothing goes on for people with more channels, my wides are discreet NOT matrixed. Maybe it's only when the rears are off with fronts then,
There's object atmos and static atmos, depending where in the 3d space it is for meta data, the closest speaker will act accordingly so from experience its just always working so why
@@dfalekulo9138 So I'll try this, I'll just select 9.1.0, disengage all heights. Any you're telling me I will get atmos sounds from all 9 speakers depending on the scene?
@trauma50disaster1 it's possible that I was a bit incorrect, I use only 2 surrounds no rear, with that yes full atmos discrete effects. I honestly don't believe 7 is so much better than 5, in parasyte some rear sounds seemed a bit more forward though. But without a doubt, more atmos for me
@@trauma50disaster1 nooo, you still need heights