Why is Star Trek Strange New Worlds SPOCK so much Different than Classic SPOCK?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2023
- In this video, we express our frustration with the portrayal of Spock in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. We reminisce about Leonard Nimoy's iconic performance and how he captured the essence of the character. However, we argue that the current iteration of Spock, played by Ethan Peck, falls short of expectations. We highlight instances where the character seems immature, lacking the wisdom and control that defined him in previous series. We discuss the disconnect between the serious tone of the original series and the lighter approach of Strange New Worlds, suggesting that it has led to a diminishing of Spock's intelligence and emotional restraint. Join us as we voice our disappointment and analyze the apparent misstep in the development of this beloved character.
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What do you think of Spock in Strange New Worlds? Let's talk about it below! Please SUBSCRIBE and hit the LIKE button for us.
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No one could ever replace Nemoy but the spock in SNW is pretty good.
What I personally think. I think because there are only 10 episodes, it's not 22. There is no time for these side stories. Down grade main crew to three. And have others pop up. :Edit by the time I finished typing it was 15:32.
16:05 is that a reference to Judge Dredd?
Sorry, but I disagree with your take on Spock of SNW. We ALL go through phases in our lives and I have been seeing SNW as simply one of those phases prior to his becoming the Spock we all know and love. Away from Vulcan and all it's influences he is being heavily influenced by his new family and friends. I predict an event in his future that will return him to his strong Vulcan ways, at least until 'The Motion picture' where he re-embraces friendship. It'll be okay. It'll be okay.
He's not different though... this amazing young actor is staying faithful to the character nimoy created. And he's hilarious
Roddenberry, as well Nimoy, changed the character after they got rid of Number 1. Spock took over Number 1's logical side to evolve into the character we saw in the season opener.
I would recommend These Are the Voyages. Many of the things that we are talking about today, Roddenberry had to fight for in the '60s.
Fontana had to fight against the sexualization of Spock in Enterprise incident, and largely won but was not happy with the episode.
Are we ignoring S1E09 where he has to let go of his emotional control to fight the Gorn and it clearly states in S2E01 that he has been struggling to regain that emotional control ever since?
Spock never fought the gorn. Kirk did.
Lighten up people. It's a television show. I'm so sick of hearing Canon. Who cares! What most of us want is a good story with good characters. Who cares what happened on the original show. It was fifty years ago
The Gorn were a new, unencountered species to Kirk’s Enterprise - that’s my recollection. The fact that SNW introduced a whole subplot with them is another incongruity to add to the pile. The showrunners should have clarified that everything from Discovery and after is an alternate reality. End stop. The fact they haven’t is simpleminded stubbornness.
I think Ethan Peck is doing a good job with what he has to work with. I'm even all for Spock being less Spock, but not some emotional love sick puppy
Spock was my favorite Star Trek character when I was a young man.
My first Star Trek Online character was a Vulcan scientist
- RIP Mr Nimoy - The world is a little less tolerable without you in it.
It's a shame when a person locks themselves into a single image of a character and fails to expand the possibilities of how said beloved character can evolve. This is the younger Spock who was with Pike for years before having Kirk or McCoy come into his life. He has experiences to go through which will develop him into the Spock we see with Captain Kirk. And the episode you reference regarding being taught by others how to speak like a Vulcan and how to act like one has a reason behind it so though you may not care for the reason I found it brilliant and fun. Ethan Peck plays Spock wonderfully and this is coming from a person who watched the original Star Trek when it first came out in the 1960's and was a huge fan of the original Spock. And I loved the Star Trek movies with Zachary Quinto as Spock.
I say that pon far changes his aperance
@@cursedcanine8414like when The Doctor regenerates? 🤣 I love it
The video praises Ethan Peck’s acting chops; it’s the writing that is disjointed and OOC. I also liked the Quinto Spock. What I also respected about those films is that JJ Abrams made it clear the films established an alternate timeline. This is something the new showrunners haven’t done, which is frustrating.
The new Spock is still young. I hope that the writers have a plan, for him and also for the new Kirk ! Hopefully, they both will evolve at the same time into the characters we love. I also agree on your interpretation of the series in general. Yes, where are the strange new worlds ?!?!?!?!? And yes, get Pike out of the kitchen (I really love this one) !!!
This is a deliberate choice and he's a somewhat younger Spock that's still figuring himself out.
The last episode of season 1 hung a lamp on it with how they portrayed him there. Even Pike was taken aback with how different he was.
I'm totally fine with it and I think it's a fun character arc to explore.
Is it possible to have a character arc or a learning curve without saying something stupid like “I would like the ship to go … now.” and doing a weird smiling face? I like Strange New Worlds but i wish i could say that i LOVE it.
@@evandest1983 I thought it was great too, and perfectly in-line with a logical, literal Vulcan trying to come up with "their thing".
Trek has a long, long history of cheesy lines. Feature, not a bug.
Its dumb and not for him at all
Here's a logical answer from Spock to Ortegas : - I do not need a thing Lieutenant Ortegas... Now proceed to the coordinates. That is an order!
@@evandest1983 TOS Spock, yes. Because TOS Spock doesn't care about fitting in.
This Spock isn't there yet.
None of us know Spock as he was nearly a decade before TOS just like none of us know what Uhura was like in her academy days or as a fresh-faced Ensign. I'd likewise say the Picard who captained the Stargazer was a lot more like a young Will Riker than he'd want to admit. This gives great room to explore what caused Spock to become that stoic super reserved man we see later. What event or events drove such a wedge between him and T'Pring that she'd just as well see him die to get out of marrying him.
Also why would he be playing that instrument his whole life? Are we familiar with and play every instrument just because they're from Earth?
He's 5 years younger.
True but Ethan Peck's version was introduced in 2257, which is 8 years before "Where No Man..." in 2265
@@ThePopcast You keep saying this, but we are litereally completely different people every seven years.
The writers have mentioned their using The Cage and Menagerie Spock as the template and how Spock grows into the TOS Spock we all love.
except that Spock would not have behaved this way. Just no way. Did you actually watch the podcast? And given the storyline in SNW there is no way that things can play out the way they did in TOS esp with regards to T'Pring. They've made Spock into an utter cad here and redeemed T'pring. We can understand why she would have done what she did - this Spock dishonored her immensely.
@@Patricia599 You have no real evidence that he wouldn't behave differently. Only "I don't think he should" Frankly it is pretty ridiculous to think Spock would have always acted the same. Do you act the same as you did 5-10 years ago?
@@andrewpellom1761Spock's mom as mentioned in this video summed things up better. Mayve you should watch Star Trek.
@@chrisvb4387 i have probably watched more Star Trek than you cupcake
Just stop
Agree completely! My biggest grip with the reboot/re-imagining...and it's almost a game ender for me. Way over the top! Even a young Spock would have never acted this way. Pretty much anti-canon imo
I'm one of your 20%. A huge Sci Fi fan, and your subscriber. I grew up watching Trek and love it for its science, exploration and thought provoking stories. Not all of us ladies watch for the smooching and crying ya know! I'm definitely a nerd, just not a 'sweaty' one, or does that only apply to the 80%? 😉
To me it makes sense since this is all before he met Kirk
Spock was not the one that said "double dumb ash on you", that was Kirk.
Spock never cursed, it's illogical but he did curse theoretically in the Undiscovered Country "if I were human, I believe the correct response would be go to hail... if I were human."
Yep, he referenced it, but Kirk was the one who originally said it. th-cam.com/video/7WTvEbUkeLM/w-d-xo.html
I think one of the main problems with modern Trek, Disney Star Wars, and the current offerings from the MCU is that their writing teams just lack the types of real world experiences that produce truly great writers. Compare the bios of any member of the Strange New World writing team or for real fun the She-Hulk writers with those of Star Trek the original series. There is a weight that comes from the struggles some of them had to go through that today's writers just can't comprehend. Take Harlan Ellison, the writer of The City on the Edge of Forever, according to his Wikipedia bio his early life as marked by the following.
Ellison frequently ran away from home (in an interview with Tom Snyder he would later claim it was due to discrimination by his high school peers, he was Jewish), taking an array of odd jobs-including, by age 18, "tuna fisherman off the coast of Galveston, itinerant crop-picker down in New Orleans, hired gun for a wealthy neurotic, nitroglycerine truck driver in North Carolina, short-order cook, cab driver, lithographer, book salesman, floorwalker in a department store, door-to-door brush salesman, and as a youngster, an actor in several productions at the Cleveland Play House.
Now look at the early career of Jessica Gao, the creator and head writer of She-Hulk Attorney at Law.
She joined the writing room for the third season of Rick and Morty, acting as story editor on six episodes and writing the episode "Pickle Rick". For writing "Pickle Rick", Gao won the Primetime Emmy for Outstanding Animated Program at the 2018 Primetime Creative Arts Emmy Awards.[2] While working on the show, Gao and the other female writers were subject to sexual harassment by members of the fanbase that were upset about the show hiring women in the writing room.[3](The Hollywood Reporter described the incident as follows, “There was a Reddit post that called us the social justice warriors that Dan had to hire that ruined season three,” Carbiener recalled, noting that the backlash occurred over six months before the third season’s release.)[4] Gao and Rick and Morty co-creator, Dan Harmon, collaborated on a podcast series entitled "Whiting Wongs" that discussed race and privilege in Hollywood.
Those two bios say an awful lot about what is wrong with modern SciFi and Fantasy entertainment.
That's an interesting take but we all know what's wrong with modern SciFi and Fantasy entertainment. They continue to suck the life out of the same old 40+ year old IP instead of trying something new. Then we get hung up on things like Peck's Spock isn't Nimoy's Spock . I mean it's a little unfair to expect him to be?
and interestingly sexual harassment by Chapel through sexual innuendo is rife in Season 1. If I did what she did to a male colleague I would have HR all over me. He's her superior but the glances and touches and comments just keep coming. She KNOWS he's taken but who cares. Chapel doesn't have boundaries. Imagine if they wrote a male character this way?
Spock would say, "You may proceed."
Yeah I like this.
I was thinking Spock is becoming far too emotional now but I’m taking it as this is all leading up to something major that will happen which will force him into the classic Spock we know of when he is under Captain Kirk. Also this romance push is not needed.
1000% agree, this Chapel thing is not for me.
@@jacobpowers5036 I think it add to the subplot in TOS, which had Chapel unrequitedly yearning for Spock. They had all these unexplored threads that they never really investigated in the 60s. I think it is only right to have modern writers put some flesh on the bones of these ideas and give them more meaning and context.
I bet you hated yesterday’s episode
yeah he's emotional, cuz he's DECADES younger than OG Spock.
But the videos point is when he is with Pike he is already beyond mature and experienced with only a slight moment of a smile. Thats what the videos point was, the original pilot has Spock fully mature, while this wierd show are all events FOUR years after the pilot.
Who says at this point that Spock knows who he is as of yet? He told Sybok in Star Trek V he was not the outcast boy he knew so long ago - he's found his place and knows who he is then. In TMP, Spock was undergoing Kolinahr which was to purge all remaining emotion. He never completed it as he joined the crew as the V'Ger threat called to him. When he was retraining his mind on Vulcan in Star Trek IV, the computer confused Spock asking how he felt. His mother had to ask what the issue was and Spock responded he did not understand the question. Amanda explained, Spock was half human and the computer was aware of it. Spock replied it was an irrelevant question to which Amanda countered..the retraining of his mind was in a Vulcan way so while he may not understand feelings, as her son he has them and they will surface. Spock concedes, 'as you wish since you deem them of value.. but I cannot wait here to find them'. He adds he must go to Earth for testimony when Amanda asks if his reasons for doing so were due to friendship. Spock conveys he's only to do so as he was there. Amanda asks him if the good of the many outweighed the good of the one? Spock accepts that statement as an axiom. Amanda expounds then he's alive due to a mistake made by his emotional friends as they believed the good of the one (Spock) was more important than that of the many. Spock considered that an illogical decision. Later Kirk is stunned at Spock's cold assessment 'the probability would be our mission would fail'. Kirk easily points out the illogic in Spock's belittling of the situation 'Our mission, Spock you're talking about the end of every life on Earth! You're half human, haven't you got any goddamed feelings about that?'. Spock is taken aback realizing Kirk was correct. Later when they are discussing finding Chekov or leaving him behind (the needs of the many or the good or the one?), Spock speaks up that they must help Chekov. Kirk curtly asks Spock if that was 'the LOGICAL thing to do'. Spock answers, 'no, but it is the HUMAN thing to do.' The character of Spock was always about growth amidst the dichotomy of being both a logical and emotional being. Spock would often point out humanity's flaws while often stories would show Spock the limitations of logic. Just ask Sarek grew to respect Spock and his career and friends, Spock grew to accept he was both emotional and logical and instead of needing to seek Kolinahr, he found balance even correcting a certain Vulcan stating 'Logic, logic, logic.... Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.' The SNW Spock is very early into a multi-century journey. Let us see how SNW shows us Spock's development.
Fascinating and
Interesting gymnastics routine
Agree. I like them exploring the more emotional human aspect of Spock before we get to the Stoic Vulcan.
@@OkunenSan No.
@@OkunenSanexactly!!!
I think they just like doing whatever they think is cute and they don't care about the character/canon
Funny how the writers address some of your points in the latest episode.
Spock in the Captain Pike era was younger and based on the one and only original episode with Pike and Spock, he really isn't off track if you base his current personality on that portrayal. It wasn't until the Kirk TOS episodes that he developed to a more logical half Vulcan. Being critical of his current portrayal would be a bit premature since that Spock doesn't exist for another 8-ish years in the original TOS time line. If you doubt that all you have to do is look in a mirror and if you are someone who has lived as an adult for one or two decades you get what I mean.
Bingo! If you watch the original Pilot you see Spock was a LOT more emotional and less reserved. So it stands to reason the Spock who worked with Pike would be a lot closer to the one on Strange New Worlds.
In fact, you COULD say that what happens to Pike would have changed Spock drastically....
"The Cage" was a rejected pilot, it is a version of Star Trek that never happened. The elements that were retained for "The Menagerie" are inline with what we see from the accepted pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before", forwards.
Your wrong you can see him with Pike in the Cage.
You just said everything I’ve been thinking this season. In general, I was a supporter of what they were doing on SNW in season 1, although I had some growing concerns (i.e. the Gorn becoming a major continuity issue), but this season, I’m becoming increasingly frustrated that they are deliberately trying to turn Spock (and as evidenced in the trailer, Kirk) into buffoons. Because girl power.
In today’s Hollywood, you can’t have Rey become a powerful Jedi for the next generation without shitting on Luke. Shitting on Luke is what makes her powerful rather allowing him to pass the lightsaber to her with the dignity and wisdom of a Jedi master to his aspiring padawan who has great potential in her own right, with her goodness and compassion and respect for who and what came before.
What we’re seeing in SNW is Paramount giving Spock and Kirk the sort of irreverent treatment that Disney gave Luke. But instead of turning them into bitter useless old men, they are opting for comedic useless butts of all the girl-bosses’ jokes, so that Nurse Chapel of all people can tear through an army of 200-pound Klingons with her bare hands. Well, it’s not funny.
All incredibly valid points! Bringing down another character to raise up another is an element of bad writing. Well said!
@@ThePopcast - absolutely agree!
As this is a younger Spock, maybe the writers are suggesting that at this time he was not fully under control of his emotions? Maybe as the show progresses, Spock will gain more control of his emotions and more resemble the Spock we all know? There is no canon for a younger Spock reflected in TOS. Anyways, I am of the TOS era and have loved most Trek works from then until now. Also, the massive success of the show would suggest that your take on this series is not mainstream. In my opinion, Paramount is nailing it when it comes to the Trek universe.
I would say this video's take and those in the comment section are a certain sect of Star Trek fans that are "gatekeep-y" and negative, while the majority of what I'm seeing online is an excitement and love for SNW. I was surprised to see this video be so negative while expressing only a few good points.
@@jacobpowers5036 We'd never Gatekeep Star Trek from anyone. If you love it, let your Strange New Worlds Flag fly proudly.
That's exactly right. The writers wanted to explore of a "The Cage" era Spock where his human side was more prevalent than TOS era where he was purely Vulcan with very rare exception.
Of course, in reality, The Cage hadn't figured out Vulcans yet so that's why Spock smiled and acted differently, but it's still a fun way to spin it in canon and get some character development out of it.
@@jacobpowers5036 I think you are correct that some fans want to be gatekeepers. They emphasize canon and lore and always want to tell you what Star Trek is supposed to be. But even in the era of original Trek, there were fans, especially some female fans, who loved Spock and wanted to tame him. You also see elements of this in the wilder Spock fan fiction. So, there are lots of precedents for fans wanting to see a more emotional Spock. That said, I think this video essay makes some good points. The actors in Strange New Worlds are great and will work with whatever material that they are given. And I DO think the writers have been told to emphasize personal relationships. We have had some thoughtful science fiction oriented episodes in the new series. I hope the writers can find a way to strike a balance.
@@Fygee In interviews, Nimoy said that Jeffrey Hunter's Captain Pike was more reserved, so he played Spock as more emotional. And of course, some of the attributes that were later part of Spock were originally aspects of Number One's character.
Great job guys from a girl who agrees with you.
That whole 'I would like the ship to go . . . NOW!' was SO cringe. Here, let me fix it . . .
Ortega: 'You going to do the thing?'
Spock: 'The thing is illogical. You will carry out my orders.'
There, fixed it.
That most definitely sounds like something that nimoy would have said.but then again, he would not have had to.
I'm convinced that the writers just don't know how to write Vulcans period.
Good point re: Spock of Strange New Worlds. However, I've watched all episodes up to S2E1 and look fwd to more of the young Spock's maturing into his adult Vulcanhood... Let's pray for the Strange New Worlds' writers
Without seeing Season Two, the writers would no doubt argue that they are experimenting with Peck's Spock so we get Nimoy's Spock. Really enjoyed Season 1 of Strange New Worlds and looking forward to seeing how Season 2 holds up. Still an interesting video though thanks 😎 Here's hoping that with Picard Season 3 and Strange New World's, we get back to a fun, optimistic, dramatic Star Trek!!!
Really appreciate your thoughts! I think that is what they would say as well :)
@@ThePopcast really great podcast/TH-cam channel! Bring on LEGACY!!!
I completely agree! And I blame Akiva Goldsman for the ridiculous retconning of Spock. I believe Goldsman was responsible for ruining "ST: Picard," so I'm not surprised to see him messing with Spock.
Ethan Peck is doing a great job...
He plays a younger Spock...
Nemoy was constantly reinventing his character... He progressed as he went along..
And I bet you work for Parmont, not a true fan
Hey I always get something good out of your video. Personally I really like SNW and Both animated shows
I totally see what you mean about Spock though. The classic episode where Spock showed true relief and emotion that he hadn't killed Kirk on Vulcan always brings a smile. It wouldn't have worked unless he'd been stoic previously
Remember the original pilot episode, reworked into ‘The Cage.’ Spock, a bit younger than when he was first officer on Kirk’s Enterprise, was fairly emotive. Strange New World’s Spock is this Spock.
Nimoy was 35 in 1966. Ethan Peck is 37, yet he looks 25. Miss seeing grown men who looked like grown men.
I was wondering if I can ask a question. I was wondering because I thought that you had mentioned in one of the videos about doing something with captain seven of nine. Did I miss it? Also, I saw in one of the feeds on my phone that there was a possibility of a crossover event with prodigy and Star Trek legacy. Once again, I haven't heard anything officially about Star Trek legacy so that I miss something on that as well?
Leonard Nimoy's version is by far the best, but that is the most seasoned and mature version as well. SNWs version, he is younger, still learning, and hasn't gained the experience or rank and certainly hasn't been through Kolinahr training yet. I agree, they have drifted from the original version (sadly) but there seem to be somewhat acceptable reasons for it, although the bit with the lyre was too much of a stretch.....he would have know about that all of his life.
You do understand this is a young Spock? We got to see him evolve over the decades. He is doing what all individuals do, he is a work in progress. I love his the complexity of his character, his emotions that he is struggling with, and the fact that he is unhinged regarding his feelings for Nurse Chapel. All of this is not against cannon in any way. We have a "young" version of Spock here.
Spock is 30 on this show and he's 35 when TOS begins. If he were 22, perhaps.
@@ThePopcast 30 for a species that lives to around 200 is different from 30 in human years. Look at the Spock that we see on TNG -- wildly different from the Spock of the Voyage Home even. As others have said, a lot can happen in 5 years.
@@ThePopcast People can change a lot in five years. Especially a character as conflicted internally as Spock.
It's less a matter of age and more a matter of finding one's self.
Again, the show demonstrated that he becomes the TOS Spock we all know and love in A Quality of Mercy. With SNW, we get to see how he gets there. Personally, I'm very intrigued to see what happens to his character that firmly puts him into the Vulcan side of stoicism and hard logic.
His wife is going to leave him. His captain is going to end up in a beep chair. His romantic feelings for Chapel are going to end up unfulfilled. The bridge crew outside of Uhura are all going to be turned over. Dealing with the loss of Burnham. There's lots of stuff here that will impact him personally to drive him to completely divest himself of emotions as much as he can.
I think we should all try enjoy the ride and see where they take it instead of giving into the cynicism of "This isn't my Spock! Nu Trek is teh suX0rz" style YT hate bait.
@@ThePopcast Five years on the Enterprise isn't exactly the same as just 5 years for anyone else. I can point to a number of things that have happened in my own life that completely changed who I was. I can only imagine how many of those kinds of situations Spock has been through. I was surprised and disappointed to see this sentiment coming from you guys. I love TOS and I love Spock. And I LOVE seeing this struggle he's going through. It makes what comes later so much more poignantly tragic, IMO.
Yes, that was exactly what I was thinking when he asked why is younger Spock so different than older Spock and being disappointed about it. Also, where was Spock before getting assigned to the Enterprise? If he was among Vulcans more than Humans in his pre-Enterprise environment, he probably was less emotional and more controlled. But, after arriving on the Enterprise, and then finding himself in an environment of mostly humans and thus getting exposed to a wide range of emotions at every turn, this would call out his more human side. This combined with his Vulcan training would force an acceleration of his evolution from an emotional Spock to a more Vulcan Spock sans human “weaknesses” or how ever Spock perceived emotions.
Five years in an immersed state among humans, seems to me, would provide an environment that would call for speeding up the evolution of his maturation of purging human emotion for logic.
I agree and disagree with you. Totally agree that Spock in Discovery Season 2 was more Nimoy-Spock like, and Ethan Peck's portrayal was great! And when the Short Trek came out with Spock's first day on the Enterprise as an ensign, I thought SNW was going to be a prequel to Discovery, not a continuation of the character story lines. I think that's where some of the struggles Spock is experiencing (though I am totally enjoying the show!) come in. Wouldn't Spock have experienced more of these emotional struggles at the start of his Star Fleet career when he's completely removed from Vulcan influence and surrounded and working with mostly humans? So while I agree that the strength of his emotional struggles is a little off, I wonder if the time line placement is the root of that problem. He would more have likely experienced these pre-Discovery, but I think Spock fans are still enjoying seeing him grow into where he ends up with TOS - and that is what the overall plan is from what the directors are saying. So that's my disagreement with what you're saying. We all know what's going to eventually happen - Chapel falls in love with Roger (will that be this season?) and T'Pring, well, she dumps Spock so he's alone. And I guess I'm enough of a romantic to be happy that somewhere along the line, Spock found love. ;-) I am just so glad Star Trek, the real Star Trek, is back on TV - I hope it stays in space for a long time!!!
When asked what his thing is, I was hoping he'd say something in native Vulcan and have Uhura translate as, Vamonos.
I couldn't have said it better. I sign it with you, guys!! This Star Trek is good but not great. And Star Trek used to be great... 😢😢
Peck’s Spock has to become the Spock that Kirk knows. It’s a journey.
No, its not though.
The journey was already taken PRIOR to Pike. By Leonard Nimoy when he is with Pike he is already beyond mature and experienced with only a slight moment of a smile. Thats what the videos point here was, the original pilot has Spock fully mature, this wierd show are all events FOUR years after that pilot.
LOVE SPOCK'S MIND and ANALYTICAL THINKING with a LACK of EMOTIONS 😊❤!!!
Excellent video, perfectly highlights the writing issues of SNW. I really want to like this show but this sort of stuff really puts me off
Ethan Peck is doing a great job. Zachary Quinto made a mediocre Spock, but that was most likely due to J. J. Abrams. I was 8 years old when Star Trek the Original Series appeared on TV and as I was living in the Central Standard Time Zone, I was able to watch all three seasons of Star Trek. (That meant the show came on an hour earlier than on the East Coast or West Coast and didn't interfere with an appropriate bedtime for young kid.) Spock's character in the original pilot (which was folded in The Menagerie) with Jeffrey Hunter was quite excitable and showed quite a bit of emotion. In later shows in the first season, Leonard Nimoy refined the character based on feedback from fans. It was fan letters that first noted the rivalry between Spock and McCoy that became a mainstay for both characters. The writers would adjust the character as necessary to find the right balance.
Ethan Peck is doing a younger Spock and is doing a great job. Your video is treating him way too harshly. I wouldn't expect him to do the part exactly like Nimoy.
No star trek can compare to the original series and the next generation
"Do something new like: save a shuttle from an inhospitable planet and the characters all behave like we expect them to." 😂
I'm glad someone got this.
I couldn’t agree more! Let’s hope that this does not continue
100 per cent agreed, the original series is much better .... fantastic writing.... only star trek generations had aproach and please give us the good and old spock like he is...
I agree with the narrator. Today's writers of Star Trek don't understand the show much and whenever they feel "limited" by Canon, they simply ret-con whatever they don't like.
It really pisses me off. And whenever I start one of the new Star Treks, I just can't stomach it for long.
If the writers and show runners can't stand the restraints of the original shows, then they need to f'ing write something original and create their own characters and world. They won't do that, because they like the money, and the fans, that come from using a property that already exists.
But they definitely lost me. I wonder how many other original fans are also sick of this.
Enterprise was the last good Star Trek, because they invented all new characters and explored the Pre-Federation Earth, Vulcan, Klingon, Romulan, and Andorian worlds. It explored contemporary themes, like 9/11 in a sci-fi world, much like TOS explored contemporary themes from the 1960s.
I agree that these new Star Treks are just dumbed down, overly emotional, immature, DRAAAAAMA, like teenager shows. Others, unlike TOS that was actually somewhat subtle in its addressing of contemporary topical themes, the new ST, just like a lot of Hollywood fare is becoming really preachy and seems to try to tick as many boxes on the topical issues list as they can cram in. And while they may please certain people, they are guaranteed to turn off the very audiences they want to "educate."
Thanks for this. So right, this is definitely CW Star Trek. Hopefully, at the beginning of a season, I'd be fine if a character woke up and realized that all the previous episodes were the result of a narcotic-induced dream.
I definitely agree that this show should be a vanguard of modern storytelling. It's what differentiated it from shows like the original "Lost In Space."
I wish there was a 'drop the mic' emoji I could use. WELL SAID, POPCAST!!! This has been BUGGING me.. The people below saying 'this is a younger Spock' aren't all wrong.. But he's not THIS much younger. They are writing for 'my feelings mean the most' Millennials and GenZ here. It's just BARELY working in Season 2. Seasons 1 was GREAT.. The Trek series we've hoped for in terms of episodic (mostly). But Season 2 (except or the trial of Number One) is - well - off to a shaky start in 4 episodes. We don't need Hemmer back.. But we need more of the REAL Spock.. And we need MORE NEW WORLDS!!! Not OLD worlds. And ENOUGH with the timey-wimey time travel episodes.... DONE!!!!!!
I'm going to try to not go all boomer here, but it's gonna be hard.
I watched the original series in the 60s and you nailed it when you said this was made for "modern audiences".
Everything, not just Trek, has been slowly poisoned by people who have no respect for the story and only care about money and "the message".
It's even worse when they call us toxic when we dare disagree with their vision.
I'm gonna stop before I start cussing. 🤬
The writers just hate the thought of writing “unemotional” characters. In season one we see Spock and T’Pring on Vulcan kissing in public. Anyone who knows Trek knows this would never happen cause Vulcans don’t even like talking about intimacy let alone displaying it in public.
Literally. TOS Spock literally almost died instead of talking about sex but sure 7years before that he was tongue kissing people in public. What's the point of writing alien species if anything unique about their culture is thrown away to make a generic romance plot?
Thanks for recommending "The City on the Edge of Forever"; "The Devil in the Dark"; "A Taste of Armageddon"; "Journey to Babel". Those were made before most of us were born and are masterpieces. The performances are remarkable, but Leonard Nimoy's Spock is incredible; his wisdom and gifts are central to the stories. In "Journey to Babel" we see Spock in all his complexity and the price he pays in defying first his father and then mother to fulfill his duty; in "The City on the Edge of Forever" Kirk only stops McCoy from changing history because Spock persuades Kirk it must be done. In "The Devil in the Dark", before any mind-melds, only Spock, because he's so smart and so clear-sighted, can see that the "Devil" acts nothing like a devil, or a monster, or a wild animal, but like an incredibly intelligent being despite being in terrible pain, and it seems inherently non-violent. So if, as Spock suspects, the creature is inherently non-violent and has no interest in hurting humans at all, why has she killed humans? Only Spock can unravel that mystery: she is a mother who is finally left no choice; the human minors have killed almost all of her children. That scene of Spock in the mind-meld where he speaks for her and weeps her tears, not his, as she speaks through Spock of the massive graveyard of her children which Kirk finds is heartbreaking. Everyone should watch those shows. Perhaps then they will begin to understand what great writing is and why so many of us have a problem with the terrible writing in SNW.
Excellently said!
Strange new worlds has been awesome And I think Mr. Lennon Nimoy Would be the 1st one to congratulate Ethan pack On his outstanding performance As Mr. Spock If you don't want to see strange new worlds That's your prerogative Your loss Like I said it's an outstanding show
@@flar5022 Ethan Peck is an excellent actor. My issue, as stated, is with SNW's writing not with SNW's actors. My personal opinion (only my opinion, as Leonard Nimoy sadly passed in 2015), is that Leonard Nimoy would consider Ethan Peck a fine actor but would want him to have better scripts. Meantime, while I love Leonard Nimoy's acting and John Lennon's music, I've never heard of "Mr. Lennon Nimoy" or "Ethan pack". I therefore accept you saying that "Mr. Lennon Nimoy Would be the 1st one to congratulate Ethan pack"; I wish them well, whoever they are.
@@boba6890I enjoyed your very eloquent and articulate response 🙂. Your earlier comments about particular TOS episodes were spot on and ST SNWs could be improved with storytelling and writing of that calibre. Actor, Ethan Peck, would have more or better opportunities to display his acting abilities.
I think that since Vulcans live longer, it takes a while for them to fully mature. Also, since he is still dealing with his dual heritage, this explains to me the way he is currently.
But youre bypassing the fact that when he is with Pike he is already beyond mature and experienced with only a slight moment of a smile. Thats what the videos point was, the original 2 hour pilot with Pike has Spock fully mature, this wierd show are all events FOUR years after that famous pilot.
I would not be surprised if the season 2 cliffhanger finale will be: something really bad happens because Spock couldn't control his emotions, which makes him understand why, for him, the way of Logic is not only beneficial, it's necessary! lol.
...but to your point, I believe the line in TOS went "Vulcans have no tear ducts." Nimoy himself had to break that one in The Motion Picture, as he is seen weeping for V'Ger. Oh well.... it's just a TV show.... I mean.... a 60 year TV show franchise that is now incredibly HUGE! I love it!
I doubt it. I am betting we have at least 2 seasons of this Chapel/Spock nonsense. It's going to be unbearable. The best bet would be that the writers/actors strike kills this series and we can start over.
I also prefer the more cold and logical Spock, but SNW timeline is clearly not exactly a prequel to the exact same timeline of TOS. Khan was born in the 21th century. The Gorn are already knowned since the first episode. And Pike still has 10 years before his accident, wich will mean Spock will be in his 40s when Kirk becomes the new captain. There is still a lot of time for Spock to become more cold and logical and if there are already hints, like in the dialogue with Boimler and on his situation with Chapel and the lyrics he sings, that it is precisely where the story is going. That Spock is being cooked. There is sense in comparing and criticizing the series based on what it was 60 years ago, and what you liked more about it and what you think was the essence of the character, but to use it as some unchangeable rules for defining the character in a prequel made today would be...ilogical.
Also.....14:38 is there some rule or facts that Science Fiction is 80% guys and 20% girls? What the hell was that?
I agree it clearly doesn't take place in the same continuity, but the writers would disagree, which is the issue.
@@markd7072 Yeah, I've read something in the lines of them insisting it is the same timeline, But I believe that what the show shows is more important than what the writers talk about. The episode that revolves arround child Khan in the 21th century is basically a statement of the impossibilty that this timeline is the same of the TOS.
I honestly don’t seem to mind the differences in Strange New Worlds, maybe it’s because they really lowered the bar…significantly, with STD and Picard Season 1 and 2 that anything else seems to be ok. They have messed with the Klingons and whilst they were not as bad as it STD, I wish they wouldn’t have.
Agree 1,000X
Wish this could get to the brains in charge.
The Second season isn't as good as the first. The actors are good but, I hope the writing and storylines get better..
They're drawing a map from smiley shouty Spock in The Cage to extremely cold zero warmth Spock in Where No Man Has Gone Before.
Spock in The Cage yelled about Circuits and Women, remember?
WHERE'S THE CIRCUIT!?
Sorry Popcast, you are dead wrong. I see this as the younger Spock linking him to the later one who for the first part of S1 TOS was more emotional until they finally figured out the character (I noticed you acknowledged his more emotional scenes from the Cage). I also think the lowering of his mental barriers affected him and perhaps one of the reasons T'pring takes a dislike to him. I look forward to seeing his journey to a more mature person.
The writers strike is ridiculous as they have no idea what startrek was and is, what it stood for as one of the first looks into the future, equality for everyone. The glass ceilings that were broken during TOS
In _my_ NEVER to be considered _humble_ opinion , THIS _IS_ Star Trek CENTRAL !
I like Strange New Worlds and I like Ethan Peck, but yeah he's not playing Spock. This Spock is the exact opposite of Leonard Nimoy's portrayal.
He is more Mr Mock than Mr Spock.
I totally agree… so much of this new Trek is not in alignment with original cast, characters, and storyline - don’t get me wrong, some of the new stuff is good and lot of it well … I think folks like us just have to enjoy Trek as it goes.
He is playing Spock to a T remember Spock from The Cage this is how Spock was portrayed as having more emotions Spock became pure logical in The Man Trap remember this series takes place between The Cage and The Man Trap so there is no exact way to assume how Spock acts you only think you know
Yeah you're right. But this is young Spock. I'm 57. When I was 27 I was completely different.
I just maintain the thought that this is not the main Trek timeline that ended with Enterprise.
I loved strange new worlds season 1 and thought they did a great job showing a young Spock still finding his way. The season 2 premiere of strange new worlds at the end actually had me shouting at my tv in anger. I hate how human they’ve made Spock. I understand it may be more dramatic to have him experiment with emotion but it undermines the very fabric of the character. He chose the Vulcan way of life because he valued logic, knowledge, and intellect. Spock in the premiere left the bridge in an emergency situation tk check on the doctor and nurse when the ship was still in danger. Nimoys Spock would never leave that chair until her captain came back.
Maybe it took these mistakes as a younger Spock to get to that point. We've all done stupid stuff in our younger years that enforce some strong standards as adults. The story timeline will steer him towards the Spock we know
Agree. Vulcan upbringing, Starfleet training, role models, innate discipline, his awareness of his responsibility for the ship / crew, his integrity and the logic of the situation would have stayed his hand and he would not have left the bridge. Spock is not a rookie officer even if he is young and having a bad emotional episode.
Personally, I think it always sucked and you just got to the point where you finally recognised it and had had your fill of it. Suckage overload comes at different points for different people on this show. I wonder if anyone has ever watched it twice? Once was bad enough, and it's only to see how badly this, StarTrek in name only, crashes.
Beautifully written and delivered.
TBH, I half expected Spock to just say "Proceed" with a poker face as his "thing" when sitting in The Chair and telling them to go to warp. That, to me, would be more hilarious because it's so simple, and yet anti-climatic, to what everyone on the bridge might be expecting.
I totally agree with you. I love the original Spock character, so much so that I enjoy more the original tv episodes than the present tv show, despite me being a sci-fi lover with the best CGI and all.
Watch for a pivotal moment. Heartbreak or loss, where logic would have saved the day. I suspect there will be something cataclysmic occur that will cause Spock to suppress all emotion from that point onward.
I completely agree with what was said. Spock was wiser highly intelligent, and logic was the only way.
Spock also laughed at plants on the surface of Talos 4.
@@mainstreetsaint36 one laugh ... lol
He's a lot younger. I think as along as we see the baseline signs of who he grows to become (he does imo) its a good thing. That was my issue with the previous movie trilogy, where it didn't feel like a younger Spock. This one does, but I would like to see more changes towards TOS spock throughout season 2 going forward and a story narrative explaining that growth more.
I say its pon far
SNWs is good but your completely right about this version. Not sure they are doing Lenord nemoy justice.
Spock has always been my favorite Star Trek character. I really like the new Spock as he is dealing with emotions behind the scenes. Where as the old Spock tried so hard to maintain his lack of emotions to appear more Vulcan. It is so much like us humans trying to show a good face in public while secretly we deal with feelings that we do not want others to see.
Spock being emotionless was supposed to be alien and in juxtoposition to Bones and Kirk's more emotional behavior. When you remove that element, and make it the norm, instead of the odd anomaly you lessen the impact of those emotional displays, and relegate Spock's experience to that of a mere human. Worse, one no different to any other female oriented hyper emotional soap opera character. No fan of the original series would conceive of, let alone want to see, this beloved character portrayed in this non-authentic way, mostly for mockery, cheap laughs and I guess, sex appeal (yeah we're talking about Spock. What gives?). This show is utter garbage fan fiction. May the writers strike never end so we can be done with this abomination. May Paramount+ blackhole this to oblivion like they just did to StarTrek Prodigy (although that was arguably a much better show that this).
@@AussieAmigan He is half-human. Plus I am a fan of th TOS, but I can see that it is just a TV show, and Spock is not a real person and writers can explore ideas and concepts. There are also other fans of TOS, in the comments, that fly in the face of your groundless opinion that "No fan of the original series would conceive of, let alone want to see, this beloved character portrayed in this non-authentic way" You are not some "better class of fan". Grow up.
This TH-cam post isn't the only one critiquing on how thus younger Spock is portrayed. I personally feel Disco wrecked Spock's back story. That set the tone for how he is portrayed on SNW.
@@Noblelox Agreed, just take Picard in S3 so the opposite of the character as originally written for TNG and as portrayed for nearly 35 years. S3 Picard realizing why he in the past acted and/or conducted himself as he did and what it cost him.
@@AussieAmiganour comment is ridiculous. Spock is completely stoic in this series. Only t'pring trips him out.
Parted from me, and never parted. Never and always touching and touched. We meet at the appointed place.
I agree 1000% - with one minor exception. I do hold the actors somewhat responsible for this abject failure. I'm sorry, but Ethan Peck is simply not in the same league as Leonard Nimoy. He is not really up to the task. To be fair, few would be, as Nimoy was a rare talent. But he is also famous for helping to create and define the character of Spock through his interaction with the writers and producers of TOS. The Vulcan nerve pinch and the "live long and prosper" greeting/farewell were both his creations! The gravitas he brought to the role is missing entirely from Peck's portrayal. I had the honor of meeting Mr. Nimoy when I was in high school. His son Adam and I were classmates and I was invited to their home to study for a class we were in together. He was a thoroughly charming and intense person. He brought both of those personality traits to the role. There must be other young actors out there who would have been more suited to pick up the Spock mantle. That said, the writing is atrocious and is ruining everything in my opinion. But Spock is also miscast.
People saying, “it’s because he’s younger”, or…”it’s the Spock from The Cage”…. I feel like these people haven’t watched TOS or The Cage recently. It’s completely fine if people like this version of Spock, to each their own. But, this Spock is NOT the same character from TOS, simple as. The actors are great, but the writing is….sub-par at best. Star Trek (and the character of Spock in particular)deserves better than these writers can give.
SPOCK had an ADVANTAGE, he was half VULCAN with the TRAINING of USING CONTROL OVER his EMOTIONS. HUMANS have a way to go yet, on this MATTER.🤓
TLDW: Drop the Gorn. Bring back Hemmer (#1), get Pike out of the kitchen, and give us real, authentic Spock.
THANK YOU!!!! Finally some-one tells how it is!
i love this channel, speaks sense!
SNW is hitting on a lot of things, but I think you're absolutely right about Spock on this show. I think there is a way they can explore Spock and his story without making him, well...a goof.
@cyberpup2246 I have a feeling you're right, and it'll probably happen when T'Pring says she's done with his waffling between her and Starfleet.
I'd argue he's less of a goof and more just awkward.
Current Spock reminds me more of Data. Completely capable and professional, but can't quite figure out how to fit in with people with emotions and illogical people.
That's sweet. You still actually think the writers care about continuity or the heroic white male characters we loved. How many clues do you need? Did you not watch Discovery? They managed to destroy the past, present and future of the franchise.
@@AussieAmigan Heroic white male characters? Have you even watched Star Trek?
Way to put yourself dude.
@@Fygee I have seen every franchise I love destroyed in recent times, on the alter of wokeness and reverse misogyny. We see a clear pattern in pop culture which minimises strong straight white male characters of the past, deconstructing them as though they were poisonous. I have seen a cowardly Luke Skywalker fart to death after drinking green milk straight from an alien tit. I have seen dead beat dad, Han Solo, fall to his death into a dark chasm usually reserved for villains, unceremoniously stabbed in the gut by his emo son. I have seen James Bond get blown into a million pieces for the crime of being a heroic male character, deemed in this recent age, undeserving of surviving. I have seen a broken and cowardly old Indy led by the nose and continually belittled by a plucky, condescending feminist usurper. I have seen a female Doctor Who claim to be an upgrade, and had writers screw with the canon so now the original Doctor is a plump black woman out of the blue rather than the much revered in fandom, white male William Hartnell that launched the nearly 60yo franchise. Such was the backlash at this most hated Doctor and vandalism of the past, that the viewership dropped off a cliff, and in desperation they had to bring back practically everyone's favourite Doctor to even have a hope of reviving the franchise. Now, I see Spock having out of character emotional outbursts, stupid soap opera romantic liaisons and doing dumb shit so he can be belittled and bettered by every female crew member who of course is the bestest evar and perfect in all ways. Kirk is some sort of emasculated non threatening twig of a man, so idiotic he apparently can't even work out a revolving door. This stuff isn't funny but insulting to the characters and the fans who grew up idolising them, buying all the merch, and making the franchise financially worthy of rebooting over and over in the first place. When you commit such vandalism, your franchise quickly wanes and dies. RIP StarTrek, StarWars, Doctor Who, Indiana Jones, James Bond, Marvel and others adopting this strategy. Go woke, go broke.
As he's playing a younger Spock, ten years prior to his being the first officer for Kirk, logic dictates that he should be more immature. Nemoy's performance, in early episodes, wasn't as locked in either, and in fact, he seems rather more prone to emotion in The Cage than he does later. In that context, Peck's performance as the younger Spock is as it should be.
5 years younger, not 10.
Also having him deal with issues that the Original Spock dealt with already, 5 years earlier retroactively damages the original series.
@@ThePopcast That's the logical fallacy of a false dilemma. Just because a person is shown to have an issue later in life. This doesn't mean that person never encountered this same issue earlier in life. In fact, the contrary is true. People often deal with the same issues over and over again in life. Ideally, they become more adept with the way they handle it.
NIMOY
But the videos point is when he is with Pike he is already beyond mature and experienced with only a slight moment of a smile. That's what the videos point was, the original 2 hour pilot with Pike has Spock fully mature, while this wierd show are all events FOUR years after the pilot.
My thoughts are that SNW shows the young Spock. I look forward to him growing and a crisis ahead which will bring him to reject his human emotions entirely... as he is in TOS. I am trusting them with this.
Maybe a very close death. And so brutal that makes him reject all emotions.
So- how old WAS Spock - _in canon_ at the end of SNW and the BEGINNING of TOS ?
Damn did you nailed this!!! You REALLY opened my eyes about how they treat Spock! I feel so ashamed now because I “thought” I loved Star Trek and I actually grew up watching TOS, Thank you !!!
The problem is the JJ/Kelvin timeline did well enough that they think every new Star Trek show or movie has to be like that.
I enjoyed the 2009 reboot but it wasn’t true Trek, but it was fun. It’s time to return to thought provoking Trek though, not just fun and explosions.
We don’t need a star fleet ship destroyed every season, we don’t need constant high school relationship drama, we don’t need unprofessional officers and crewman. We just want Trek.
Thank you. I knew it was something wrong with Spock, but I couldn't put my finger on it.
I had the same conclusion about spock from discovery is more spock than what we see in SNW.
Driving me nuts
Have you missed the explination of how he had to break his mental barriers to get anrgy enough to fight the Gorn? There is a reason he is currently like this.
@@Noblelox no I didn’t miss it, have u noticed how he is nothing like he is in TOS even with those mental blocks. How about how last week Ortegas giving him shit about his orders and he just takes it and atguees instead of telling her to follow orders.
Would realy Spock ever stand for that
I realise that this new approach is very different but I love it all. Even though I am from the original Trekies many years ago !!!
Avery Brooks, aka Ben Sisko, nearly left DS9 because the scripts didn't challenge him.
The producer went to see one of his stage plays... and the next day, went to the writers room and told them they had to do better as he'd seen Avery on stage... and realised, Brook's was right. They were not getting the best for what they had, because their scripts didn't demand it of their talent.
I feel like the NuTrek writing staff and producers go cry with their coping animal when they are told they aren't getting the best out of the IP. Then rally a social media mob to cancel someone....
Honestly... That would be a topic better handled on The Orville.
This season of SNW takes place exactly 7 years earlier than the TOS Spock. Just wait. Hold your judgement. The Pon Farr is coming.
Spock was born in 2230, Discovery's Second Season was 2258 so he was 28 on that show. The current year in Strange New Worlds is 2260 which makes spock 30. He goes through Ponfar in 2267, so you might be onto something. Let's see what the writers do with it. so far through 6 episodes there is no sign of it.
@@ThePopcast We already see Spock in tears trying to save Nurse Chapel. Also, remember in the premier, M'benga (not Ma'Benga ;-) who was trained on Vulcan, knowingly smiles when he notices how Spock's heart rate spikes when Nurse Chapel walks into the room. The doctor prolly suspects Spock is experiencing the first signs of the Pon Farr. That's why I say, it's totly coming. And Ethan Peck is gonna have the acting challenge of his life.
I CANNOT DISAGREE MORE with your interpretation of Ethan Peck's Spock. As multiple viewers have commented below, we are seeing Spock GROW into TOS Spock. It's a JOURNEY. It's Vulcan puberty, if you will. Also, the Spock in San Francisco actually wasn't the same Spock that dropped an F bomb in SNW.
Give the writers some slack, bro!! SNW is an awesome show and gives us a rare glimpse of WHO our favorite characters were BEFORE we met them.
And what is CANON now anyway? It's a TV show. My FAVORITE TV SHOW, actually. Always has been...since 1966. I love the subtle changes and have embraced them. So what we're re-interpreting canon. Have some FUN with it. Star Trek used to make me smile, cry, laugh, and scream at the TV. It does again with SNW.
Ethan peck has the timbre and voice of nimoy to a tee,the movie Spock has the look,the 2 combined would be very Nimoy-like.
This is just another example of why I don’t like the writing we see with these young writers’ who’s writing style is very childish with everything. The new quantum Leap is the same way, and the third and fourth seasons of discovery are this way as well. It’s beyond frustrating, it’s insulting.
I felt the same way when the series started. Spock was my idol as a child in the 1970s. I was very hesitant about liking this new incarnation. Just like I did not like Zackary Quinto playing him at first. I got over that also. Get over your knee-jerk reaction. But I do agree that they should push themselves harder for even better stories. I don’t need Spock to be in love. That’s exactly what happened in the episode where they are living in a “musical reality”. He learns how love hurts and swears it off. Perhaps you should finish the season before slamming it.
We should always strive for better things. It’s the logical thing to do.
Roddenberry must be spinning in his can in space!
Agree 100% this is NOT Spock! But this is no surprise, cause SNW is NOT Star Trek!!! Just love you Popcast Guys and your take on things ♥️
I think it's just a way to give spock a journey in which by the time the series ends if allowed to he will be the spock as in the TOS era. It has already done a good job of explaining why he would risk it all for Pike in TOS so I'll trust there judgement. Keep in mind this is not TOS so to expect TOS things from it is unfair. This sounds like a complaint made about every series in the franchise which will only be followed by love.
That's not a journey, thats an imposter.
Two totally different things. This is a sabotage of character by Star Wars people that are threatened by Star Trek.
Kirk said, "Double Dumbass" in The Voyage Home.
For the first time in my life, I actually have occasion to use the word "vile" after seeing the writers have not-Spock gush over eating bacon.
This show is vile.
The writers are vile and I hope the WGA strike backfires.
I have enjoyed SNW. I even enjoy the characters, though I really don't see any of these characters as the pre-cursors of the TOS characters. They're another alt-timeline to me. Agree it's YA Star Trek.