One of the things you didn't mention was the dialog trees and the game remembering what you have done and what you have said. If you keep talking to your mother early on, she says she's reading a stupid book about a boy raised by eels. Do this and "EEEEEELLLLLLLS honey!" becomes a repeated, running in joke between them. Don't do this and it's never mentioned. The game is full of moments like that.
That was one of the most touching aspects of the game for me. So many dialogue options and choices have consequences later that feel organic and make the game world seem even more alive. Got stuck in a basement with Bea one night? She'll mention it later. Make a horrific robot son with Gregg? That'll come up later when you're not expecting it. The "Eels, honey!" thing hit especially close to home because it illustrates how close Mae and her mom are. Their relationship doesn't feel forced. The dialogue is expertly written to show where they stand with each other, whether they're fighting or joking. I could relate to their relationship, having made a few inside jokes with my mom that can last for weeks or months, while also having occasional run-ins with her about the fact that my life is going nowhere. These interactions were perfect mirrored in the game, to an uncanny degree. This game is pretty great at making its various parts feel so lifelike and realistic.
It's interesting to me that there's not actually any concrete evidence of the supernatural. The cult talks about Black Goat, but there's never any sort of visible magic, or demons, or ghosts or anything. All of Mae's visions could be explained by her own stress and mental illness, and I honestly think it's more interesting that way.
I think what enthralls me with night in the woods is how it captures the sort of blissful mundaness of life ,i'm not sure mundane is the right word, like as crazy it gets for the most part it's just about people living and I appreciate that because often it's hard for stories to be about normal lives without feeling boring or coming off as pretentious.
ProfessionalBaka There is also another game which i forgot the name of involves just two family members just talking while on a road trip and you can pick the speeches.
One of the things that immediately invested me in this game was the moment Mae first stepped outside on the first day, that glowing dawn sun, people running around or just chilling, the towns quiet and peaceful atmosphere with that wind faintly blowing in the background. Coupled with the incredible music that plays, and it just resonated so hard with me cause it reminded me so much of...the real world in a strange way really.
A lot of people have said the ending feels kind of abrupt and awkward, but I didn't really get that feeling--it actually all worked really well for me, largely because I was really getting this feeling of deep, existential dread leading up to it that was paid off by all the supernatural cosmic horror stuff. A large part of that was because I fell for a red herring. The game actually really heavily foreshadows that it's going to end in a bummer: the autumnal setting, the very title of "Die Anywhere Else," the conversations you have about the dusk stars and their emphasis on death and martyrdom, the cliff at the edge of the church where the music cuts out and my very first thought was "somebody is going to jump off of this thing," the overall sense of melancholy and all the talk of ghosts and loss, all had me pretty well convinced the game was going to end with Mae's death, and I was really genuinely anxious about that possibility. Over the last few in-game days Mae's health and mental state starts to deteriorate pretty severely (almost literally everyone you talk to comments on it) and there's a huge uptick in conversations about how something bad is just around the corner, and playing through those parts my first time through I was basically thinking to myself "man okay if this ends in a bummer I am going to be really sad because I relate a lot to Mae and her situation, but I'd have to accept it because boy things sure are a bummer and I certainly don't see a way to make them better." I had this very distinct sensation of vague, creeping dread that grows and grows until it starts to suffocate you, and it made a huge impression on me because it's a feeling I know intimately. It's something that haunted me all through my own (otherwise very smooth and ultimately successful) stint at college, this feeling of intense anxiety about an impending deadline that I can't face and inevitably deal with by trying not to think about it, which obviously just makes the problem worse so the anxiety grows and facing it becomes even harder in a vicious cycle that only resolves itself once I've completely fucked myself over and have to go on some kind of three-day work binge writing ten different papers in the 60 hours before final grades are due. It's a feeling I think about a lot but have never really seen represented this clearly in a work of fiction before, and recognizing it in the narrative made me really invested in how the story was going to end. It was an incredible relief when the ending wound up being not a bummer at all but actually kind of hopeful, even if in a rather frank, bittersweet kind of way, and the core message was something I needed to hear right now. So maybe it's just that I'm extra charitable towards the last act for all of those weird personal reasons, but I felt like the narrative structure was really successful and I think the thematic threads that tie everything together are evident enough even on a first playthrough that the stuff you get in the last act doesn't really feel that incongruous.
I kind of wonder if some of this doesn't come down to an age difference, though--I'm a bit younger (I graduated college last year) and to me the big thematic thing was less about not being able to let go of the past and more about the fear that there is no future. In a way those are the same thing, I think, but which way you read it kind of colors how you interpret Mae's inner conflict and what the elder god represents metaphorically. I'm financially insecure and uncertain about where my life is going, so the aspect that resonated with me was this idea of "everything sucks and nobody knows how to fix it or what the solution even looks like, but you need to keep moving forward anyway because life is worth living for its own sake." But I can imagine the message might read a little differently if I was in another part of my life with less existential insecurity, so it's interesting to see an analysis that puts more emphasis on the coming-of-age story, which is definitely there but wasn't really the #1 takeaway for me.
@ThisIsMyRealName so, fun story! When I was in high school or so, my parents had me do a psych eval, because I had been diagnosed with Asperger's some years before and my mother wanted more recent results to argue with the school about my IEP. The new tests supported the previous finding, but they also diagnosed me with ADD and anxiety, and that's where the fun part comes in. My mom didn't like the idea of me having ADD, because she was scared about medication, and all of my teachers basically thought that diagnosis sounded fake. I wasn't a hyperactive ADD kid, I was sleepy, lethargic, spacey, anti-social, and so good at absorbing information that when I fell asleep in class they would try to trip me up with a question and I would always have the answer anyway. I was a classic case of autism brain, certainly not an ADHD student. So they just brushed past that diagnosis, didn't talk to me about it, didn't make plans to deal with it, and chalked up my troubling work habits to laziness and a lack of interest. I didn't even know I was diagnosed with ADD until literally this year, and once I learned that it explained a lot about the way my brain works and the problems I've struggled with. I'm in the process of dealing with that now--between the autism, the ADD, and figuring out I'm trans just a few months after I wrote that original comment, finding a psychiatrist who can navigate all the junk going on in my head isn't the easiest thing in the world--but honestly I'm still frustrated I never got the chance to deal with this sooner, and I can't help wondering where I'd be if I had been able to manage this better and get more use out of my time in college. I don't know that it would be somewhere different, let alone somewhere better, but I do wonder.
@@wyrdautumn best wishes friend. ditto w.r.t. undiagnosed/misdiagnosed/ignored ADHD. I also had so much hyperactivity as a child, and have so much distractibility as an adult.
I actually saw the "dead shapes" that Mae sees - aside from being a really gripping description of derealisation/dissociation - as a metafictional reference to the game's art style. According to the text it started, after all, after Mae stopped playing a dating video game that she'd invested a lot of herself into, so the exact way that it manifested might have been influenced by it; and inside the subtext, there are a lot of instances of escapism in the story, which Night in the Woods, as a videogame, also provides to a degree. Then there are some not-so-subtle references to the shapes having lines of dialogue "written" by somebody else, which seems like a dead giveaway. Furthermore, Scott Benson has created animations before that play around with the artificiality of his style - look up the music video to Toh Kay's "With Any Sort Of Certainty", and you'll see what I mean. However, this isn't to say that I think this whole plot point is nothing but trite, artsy-fartsy "it's just a game fam" idiocy; no, I think that rather, it is meant as a way to call the player back to the fact that the problems which they find artificially portrayed inside the game exist in their own reality - the wage gap, the death of small-town America, predatory bank loans, expensive education, mental illness - and that they require action there, where they hurt real people and not fictional, stylised animals made out of dead "shapes" and written dialogue.
Can we also talk about how the game also has HUGE implications about how the older generations in the real world, by holding on to their old world views with their old world blues, are actively hurting everyone around them because they can't accept that the old world just aint coming back? That they are willing and ready to kill what they deem "scum" or "worthless" to keep the illusion of their golden age alive?
ReasonForNo ReasonForNo its okey to interpret that way, but that would kill the game a little bit; for that this sickening 'nostalgia' is the demon of not only older generations, but all generations, all people.
But the situation can only be IMPROVED with honest analysis and criticism of the past, the way nostalgia is abused, people talk about the 1950's - 1970's as "the good ol' days" when "America was great" but their nostalgia hyper focuses on Madison Square Garden, and the government support of returning G.I.s, paying no mind to the wretched backlash against the civil rights movement, or the Zoot Suit Riots, or the Urban removal programs.
Yeah people who think budget cutting Meals on Wheels and education is really going to bring back coal jobs need to stop and wake up. Instead of blaming others like the young and turned down poor that if anything it's just making it worst and the hole they dig just gets so deep they are throwing even more money that could be used to improve the system for the young and poor to help them out and make more suitable jobs for today's times
I honestly wish you WOULD keep going about this game haha. You're right, it has so many little moments that range from hilarious to heart-wrenching/warming, which I think is what makes it so good.
For what it's worth, Bea explicitly says she thinks Gregg is bipolar. Obviously, it's not a formal diagnosis, but it's an interpretation of his character that the game at least encourages.
Everything my English class has been trying to teach me, since the beginning of the semester, about the theme of Coming of Age in a story was just explained in 18 minutes with a game about a college dropout and her friends and a murdercult. This is fucking _great._ P.S. Please do more videos. These are amazing!
Spectacular video, but Mae didn't drop out primarily due to the Black Goat interference, maybe none at all. Her couch scene with Bea or Greg (depending on who you favor in the game) very obviously describes Derealization/Depersonalization, a somewhat rare and horrible episodic mental condition. I am really not sure that her baseball episode was primarily due to Black Goat influence, as her description of the episodes is so close to DR/DP. Everyone in the game struggles with mental problems, inherent or accrued, and finds stability in each other. You mention Gregg's bipolarity which Bea mentions in her favored-storyline and is expanded on with his childhood trauma with "the sheep", Angus grew up with a horribly abusive family that had its own traumatic effects, and you mentioned Bea's feeling trapped but didn't expound on it as much in terms of her depressive disdain for optimism. The repeated emphasis on Dr. Hank being detrimental in terms of therapy when trying to be a medical jack-of-all-trades is an illustration of the modern American public being inadequate in terms of recognizing, respecting, and dealing with those with mental illness, either misinterpreting what the real problem is and assigning incorrect treatment or maybe reacting negatively to the ill person overall.
Yeah that was one bit I didn't agree with the video (and I see a lot of people echo elsewhere) the idea that the Black Goat/Ibon was solely responsible for Mae's mental health problems. I saw it more as them being two separate things that, during the game, intersected more and more. As in, the Black Goat made Mae's mental problems worse (and only during the game), but was not the sole reason they exist. It just really rubs me wrong that the other reading basically is just like... "mental health problems exist because of cosmic gods" and I don't think a development team comprised of people who all deal with mental health problems would write a story with that as the message.
I connected with Mae on that but I couldn't quite put my finger on why cus I wasn't as violent as her but I still had those "just shapes" moments. I leaned about DR/DP through TikTok and then further research and yeah it sucks when it happens. I no long panic but it still feels strange and there's no real quick fix. Also half of society thinks you're faking it anyway and that also sucks.
I honestly didn't think the God existed after a second playthrough, at least not the one those cultists worshipped. Maybe the God of the forest, the apathetic creature on a distant shore, exists and whatever influence it has is misconstrued as the cult's God. To me Mae's condition and the cult's obsession are essentially the same, but they're affected by an entity that doesn't really care about or mean to affect them. All that said, I'm really glad you spoke in depth about this game. I've really enjoyed going back to it time and again for bittersweet comfort over the past few weeks.
Yeah, my reading was more that this was illusory or projected onto a strange phenomena. One of the articles says as much, about people suffering from hallucinations and doing and seeing bizarre things because of gasses escaping from the mines under people's homes. And if the cultists were digging further, they might have just managed to set that off again. At least the game supports a narrative that doesn't invoke any kind of supernatural, but doesn't try to necessarily explain everything either, I think it just speaks to a toxic mindset that hurt a lot of people and people who were struggling latching out onto it, hoping it might help.
@@Darasilverdragon that’s easily one of my favorite quotes from any game or form of media and mae/angus stargazing will always hold a close place to my heart
This is an excellent critique of an often misunderstood game. Just two things I'd like to mention... 1) It's perfectly possible to sustain a read where there actually isn't anything supernatural going on at all, where the cultists invented the Black Goat god and are seeing patterns that aren't actually there. (Angus and Mae even have a dialogue about how humans are pattern-finders when they make up constellations.) In this read, Mae's worsening nightmares are just a consequence of her depression and dissociation, and any ups or downs in the town's welfare that coincided with feeding or starving the god are coincidental ex-post-facto rationalizations, and Mae's final encounter with the god in the mine shaft is just a hallucination induced by her shaky mental and physical state. There's even a newspaper clipping in the library which describes other people having the exact same nightmares Mae does, and it being attributed to gas leaks around town. So there are non-supernatural explanations for everything that happens in the game's final act if you don't want to buy into the Eldritch stuff, which (I think) further reinforces that to the devs, whether or not there's any sort of weird ghost/demon stuff going on is ultimately beside the point. The point is to interpret all of it metaphorically. Which leads to... 2) The game has a clear leftist perspective on politics and socioeconomics -- not just a liberal bemoaning of the troubles of small-town America, and chalking it up to "economic forces" bigger than any individual, but a leftist's perspective that there's a fundamental injustice in this, and that everyone in the town is a victim at the same time that some (most, actually) are also victimizers of others. The town has a history of labor strikes, sometimes violently so. If you talk to the old woman at the Pierogi stand you learn that Mae's beloved grandfather was an agitator in his youth, and you can even find evidence in Mae's basement that her granddad was part of a secret society of anti-capitalists. You can then give said evidence (a tooth of an old mining boss) to her dad in the epilogue to inspire him to unionize his grocery store. Leftism is also reflected in Mae's two closest friends: Gregg is an energetic anarchist and Bea is a grounded socialist, reflecting two different ends of leftist ideology. Both of them, along with Mae, are still young and naive enough to not have really nuanced socioeconomic philosophies, but they definitely are interested in radical politics. This also, I think, deepens a read of the conflict with the cultists at the end. Yes, as Bea points out, it is a pretty on-the-nose metaphor, but it's also an ageless conflict -- as the social systems which maintained a relative peace before are decaying in Possum Springs, the people have a choice between authoritarian conservatism and a less clear, but more just, left-wing path. The cultists display several of the traits Umberto Eco identified as "Ur-Fascism:" things like romanticized longing for a pre-lapsarian past, viewing their mission in religious terms, projecting systemic grievances onto certain individuals in society (immigrants, youths) and so on. Contending with this also adds an extra poignancy to Mae's sympathy for the cultists before one of them attacks her; she recognizes that they're scared and sad, and that they're just looking for simple solutions to complex problems, and that that's a scarily human impulse. Anyways, just a few ideas I wanted to bring up. This video is excellent, like the rest of your work.
I personally like to view the plot with the monster being a metaphor, a delusion rather than something that exists and creates influence out of nowhere. That being said I love the fact that this is left up to interpretation and I very much enjoy how they did the story throughout. Probably my goty 2017 for whatever that's worth
What Shada meant is that it's a Coming Of Age Story in which the villains are stuck in the past, and so Failed their own "coming of age" (granted that age was like, 50).
I really loved this video, but I feel like you may have glossed over the mental issues that Mae may be dealing with. My theory is that she is so desperately clinging to her memories of Possum Springs because she is suffering from a dissociative mental disorder - where things lose their meaning and just become "shapes," instead of seeming real. This condition may have been exacerbated in the isolation she experienced in college, which is what caused her to drop out and move back home; because home was the only thing she had real memories of any more. Could it have been all caused by the monster? Perhaps. But this is a game that blurs the line between allegory and actuality, and pits the hardworking youth that have been dealt a bad hand in life with the older folks who will stop at nothing to return to the success and hope they knew in their younger years. To me, this seems to fit thematically. Maybe this is something you hadn't looked at yet, I dunno! What I love about this game is that it's difficult to differentiate between what's metaphorical and what's canon, and maybe that's the struggle that Mae is dealing with in the events of the game itself. Lemme know if all that made sense!
As someone who had a very similar (if maybe less pronounced) experience to Mae at college with regards to isolation and dissociation, I reckon you're really on point with all of this. I don't know what Chris's personal experience is like with this sort of thing, but I'd posit it'd be hard for him to have made that deeper reading without having some experience either himself or via someone he knows.
Goddamn yes! Thanks! Okay, thoughts. the game reminded me a lot of the people in the American neighborhoods I've grown up and lived in, which very much felt like Possum Springs (only wealthier and bigger, admittedly). Even right now, my college shadows over the old industrial town it's in, almost like a beacon. And I loved anthropomorphic animal worlds set in identifiable towns like Richard Scarry's books and Arthur. So I guess what I'm saying is that the game's setting, and it's handling of young adult stress and problems and mental disorders feels very personal and close to heart. It shows a lot of beauty in parts of life even when faced with the worst economic and personal prospects. Thanks, Campster.
I actually liked the fact that the ending seemed to come out of nowhere. As a coming of age story, I saw the sudden focus on the cult plotline as analogous to how adulthood sneaks up on you. One day you're hanging out with your childhood friends, and the next you have to think about jobs, money, and the future. Just like how you don't notice the subtle plot pieces about the cult the first time through the game, you don't really notice that you've become an adult until you're abruptly thrown into it.
Night in the Woods shows you don't need a huge budget or a AAA title to make a good game in this day and age. The genre doesn't matter it's all about having a good paced story with characters you connect with and care about, and you know what I think this game accomplished just that with Mae's illusive collage past and the slow uncover of the disappearances of the children.
Great video! I agree with everything here! I felt the mystery subplot had a good purpose early on, before taking the forefront, even if it felt very "separate" from the interactions with your friends. Finding an arm in the streets did a pretty good job at making me think, "this is going somewhere", before I got to know the characters enough that interactions with them became the main thing driving me forward. This, and the other little early mysteries like the inaccessible room in the house were a good idea I think. It takes a little while for you to get "comfortable" with a cast, so having a few little hooks to pique your curiosity is a good move I think.
I think Mae's "spoiled-ness" resonated as pretty real for me. And I did get bored of the VAST DISTANCES between things more than once (every visit out to the church is a HIKE, man). I was also fond of the kind of weird mythology of the setting? Like, the stories of the constellations and how they had bearing on Mae's view of her own choices in life...and how the game portrays God's servants as well-meaning and ultimately unable to save people from themselves... But yes, loved this.
yeah, check out the two supplemental games if you haven't, Lost Constellation, and Longest Night, they both are about/in the NITW mythology, and Lost Constellation is really great too.
I'd love a sequel, but due to the suicide and abuse & assault allegations against the main guy who created the game, I'm not sure the co-creator of the game would be interested in creating a sequel. I'd imagine that for her, creating a sequel would bring up a lot of bad memories.
great video, and very interesting insights! i think the one point where i'd disagree with your reading, personally, is mae's mental illness--i definitely saw how the confrontation with the elder god thing in the end reflected her mental heatlh issues in some ways, but i personally never saw the former as directly causing the latter. if anything, i think that would cheapen her decision to seek help by pinning her problems on a supernatural force. still, i can see how your interpretation might make the final act tie in with mae's overarching story a bit better, and it's an interesting take
I don't know if the monster "gave" Mae these feelings, or if these feelings just opened her (and the cultists) up to its influence. Like, that's a bit vague - the monster didn't kill Mae's grandfather, but once Mae was missing him it started to take hold. Does that make the monster the grief itself, or the nihilistic depression that stems from that grief, or just an entity that feeds on those emotions to make people do what it wants? It's really hard to day. That said, I think (and this is 100% my interpretation with like, little to no textual evidence) that Mae does have her own personal problems to work through that don't stem from elder gods messing with her brain meats. Frustration, repressed grief, a bit of arrested development. But the nihilism and "just-shapes-i-ness" style depression seems tied directly to the Black Goat's influence, and clears up after she decides to reject it. So yeah, I don't want to make light of real mental illness or imply Mae's problems are "just" this thing, but also they make it kind of clear the monster is in her head? I dunno.
I mean, the game ultimately leaves it up in the air to what extent Mae's perception of reality is accurate. Remember, only she and the leader of the cult ever actually encounter the monster, and while the cult thinks their sacrifices are helping the town, there's nothing in their recounting that can't be explained through coincidence. (Also, there's some stuff in the newspaper archives in the library about gasses from the mines causing hallucinations in some citizens, so Possum Springs has a history of This Sort of Thing. Of course, maybe the gasses weren't real and the monster is. OOOoooOOOO!) I don't think her encounter with the Black Goat can really be boiled down to any one thing - in fact, I think the game tries to make it as applicable as possible. Mae doesn't really know whether she's talking to a god or a demon or a political ideology or economic forces or just her own fucked-up psychology, and it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a something bigger than her; she cannot hope to defeat it. It is malaise and decay, stripping all the soul from the world until only the outlines remain. Only by recognizing that she is destined to go through this process too, to fail and die and be forgotten, can she walk away. It's a kind of weaponized nihilism. Maybe even weaponized masochism. She will always lose to the Black Goat; what she can do is turn loss into a victory of its own.
The whole "just shapes" part sounded a lot like dissociation to me, which makes sense because Mae pretty obviously suffers from depression. I never got the sense it was directly connected to the monster, either.
i was just about to come say the same thing - i never really read the monster in the pit as even actually existing in a literal sense, i thought it was all mae's mental illness. the just shapes stuff and losing it on that one kid at the baseball game read like someone who's dissociating badly, and it hit me really hard because it was the first time someone actually put dissociation into good words for me
I think it's just part of the genre conventions of magical realism, where the reality of their universe is different from our own in order to represent moods, feelings and ideas. In their universe the monster may factually exist, however it exists in order to be an allegory for genuine things in our universe. Much like Buffy the Vampire Slayer uses demons as an allegory for the challenges of growing up. Or similar to how J K Rowling uses Dementors as an allegory for the depression she's experienced. It's just an extraordinarily complex and broad sort of metaphor or imagery that exists across the entire text. In their universe it's a monster, in ours its a psychological condition however we can draw an easy parallel between the two and use one to understand or discuss the other.
I watched this when it came out, thought the game sounded neat, and proceeded to forget about it for half a year. Now I've finally "played" it (well, watched it admittedly), and I'm really glad this video planted the seed in my brain back in March! Night in the Woods probably has the best purely narrative content I've seen in a game. It felt like reading a book- a really resonant, nostalgic, melancholy book with a whole clusterfuck of ideas and themes to chew on. One element that stuck out to me was how ambiguous the game's attitude is toward Mae. In the earlier sections it really feels like the writers are calling her out for her immaturity and insensitivity, with Mae herself being the only one, including the player, who doesn't realize she's a bit of a self-pitying prick. That angle quickly starts to shift as the story progresses, though, and by the end of everything she's mostly a victim of circumstance pitted against a much more concrete form of self-destructive behavior (ie, a murdercult). As such I find the game's message a little hard to read. Is it criticizing millennial naivety or old-guard curmudgeonism? It really has to be either both at once, or neither- perhaps the narrative is sympathetic toward both sides since they're caught in the machinations of societal forces far larger than either. Throw in the omnipresent overtones of nihilistic philosophy and spirituality, and the game becomes simultaneously twice as thematically confusing and ten times more accurate in portraying the exact mental state of a reality-shocked pseudoadult trying to find meaning in their life. All in all it's a bit of a mouthful but damn meaty.
Your ability to put words to things and decribe them are just amazing. I can explain ordinary things, and my gut feels more complicated ones. But your description of the moral of the story is phenominal. I feel like I am solid writer and have no idea how you do that.
I listen to this one most out of all your videos. "A longing for a thing you've lost that's so strong it twists you inside and removes your ability to move forward from it. That paints everything in the now as boring and ashen and... well like Mae said, just shapes. And the only thing that matters is recapturing the thing that was lost." - ugh, that's so good.
I loved your analysis. Once again, you've caught so many more themes then most content creators on this website were able to wrap their heads around. However, I take umbrage with the fact that you've reduced the themes of Mae's mental illness to JUST the influence of the thing in the mines. It's clear that it's exacerbated in late game by That Entity (or perhaps just the stress of the looming threat she discovers and the fact that people in power never actually believe her), but I think it's much more important that we understand Mae to be depressed and anxious, often resulting in paranoia when the world becomes a bit too much. A key theme running through the pivotal moments of her breakdowns is 'illusion'. The first time, she develops what she considers to be a type of bond with a character in a game, but in an instant realizes that it's all shapes, and that her grasp of the world is much less firm then she ever imagined. The second incident relates to a statue on her college campus (spoken of once or twice, but only seen in a dream prior to the conversation where she destroys it with a baseball bat.) Her heavy loneliness combined with the stress of schoolwork manifests as paranoia and guilt, and she begins unconsciously anthropomorphizing the campus statue that points directly at her dorm room window. When asked later why she felt she had leave, she references the accusatory nature of the art installation, not quite able to put her feelings into words. Then again, perhaps I'm just reaching because I found the aspects of Mae's neuro-divergence to be particularly relatable and poignant to similar instances in my own mental state at various points in my life, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But regardless, I think you should take a deeper look at this particular aspect of Mae's character. (Also, I wasn't able to find a fluid way to fit this in but, I think it's also important that we don't accept the eldritch god wholecloth. I personally think the story works a lot better if the elder god is taken as something that might but probably doesn't exist rather then something that 100% definitely does.)
Yeah. I, too, will remember Night in the Woods for the intimate moments, whether it is Mae spending time with her friends, or her just sitting on the bridge, sun behind her. The game really did a good job at selling Possum Springs and the characters. Also, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELS, Honey, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELS.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the theory that the The Black Goat was never real to begin with. My interpretation at the end was there was no mystical element, but the cult THOUGHT that there was, and that they were helping the town by sacrificing people, attributing lucky breaks to the god, and downfalls to not feeding it enough, something of a sharpshooter fallacy. Mae's having a lot of pressure and psychological issues, and when they talk about it to her, it makes sense to her that an evil god is chasing her, rather than a consistent mental problem she's having difficulties with.
As someone who has experience with disrealization/depersonalization and weird hallucinations caused by stress and loneliness. You always try to find a reason for the way you are to feel like you have control over it all, sometimes you even blame it on clear sunny days. Its clinging onto a hope thats going to hurt you because you're scared and the only other way to get better again is to accept everything as it is. Including yourself. It will always be there though, it will fade in and out. You'll find more relief from acknowledging why its being caused and then moving on is easier.
Story structure wise it actually has a bit in common with hot fuzz which probably explains part of the problem with any amateur sleuth story they need some contrived reason to get involved. If say Mae was a burnt out cop coming home from the big city thinking that returning home would be a way to destress then you could have her looking into the missing persons early on but keep that in the background the whole time until she sees the kidnapping. That would unfortunately clash with the themes though.
Not sure that I agree that the monster singing to her is what caused her to drop out of college. What she describes as happening because of the beast didn't really start happening until a couple of days she got back, while what she describes as happening to her in high school doesn't quite line up with what they said the beast does. My guess is that in high school, she developed some sort of dissociative disorder or schizophrenia (the "just shapes" thing is literally known as derealization.) that often surfaces around that age and her lack of access to proper mental health care (once again, the plight of Possum Springs comes back into focus there) lead to her being incapable of handling college life. In which case that would make Mae be one of the few times I've seen a fictional character suffer from a psychotic disorder that's actually realistic for the most part. What I would agree with is the beast taking advantage of her condition as a vulnerable person, seeing her as being a prime candidate for being a possible new glimmered member of the cult because of the alienation her disorder (which she still lacks access to care for) causes her.
its funny to hear the pacing criticisms, because honestly it was one of my favourite parts. the slowness at the beginning of the game doesnt seem like a compromise to me, it feels intentional. the feeling of doing the same thing every day, seeing the same people; although it is still enjoyable, after doing it for so long you get this weird sense of dread that you arent going anywhere (maybe this feeling is exclusive to people who have grown up in similar situations, im not sure). and JUST when that hits, harfest happens. to me the following sections sort of... materialised the anxieties i already had about the plot and pushes you forward, so when it all pops off it feels like the buildup has been happening all game. similarly, the sudden introduction of the supernatural is much less jarring when you consider that its still continuing the character arcs you've been following all game: whether you interpret it as real or metaphorical or both.
I saw you made a video about this game and within 30 seconds of watching I decided to pause the video and go buy the game. I never would have played this game if you didn't make this video so thank you.
*Why must my life reflect so similarly to this game, especially now that I'm a young adult who just keeps on refusing to grow up despite my age going on without me.*
I interpreted Mae's discussion with the "elder being" as a personal discussion with one's own mental illness. I played through this with my brother, and when that part happened, at the very climax of the game, we stopped playing and had a long heartfelt discussion about stress, anxiety, and our respective mental illnesses. That was the closest I've ever felt to my brother. It was a beautiful moment and I'm glad this game was able to inspire it.
What I got from the whole ghost/cult plot was that the older generation that was part of the prosperity of possum springs cannot let go and blames the youth for its current state. I feel like that sounds pretty accurate of how things are in the real world too. The older generation are essentially ghosts in that what they experienced simply does not exist anymore and aiming to make this or that great again when it was never really that great (you get a sense of that through the workers striking and revolting in the archives). The old folk want things to go back to the way things used to be, the youth of possum springs can’t see a way to get out. It’s just a continuous cycle
Want to compliment you. Since I stumbled across your videos, you've been a never fail view by me, everytime you post a video, which is a big compliment since free time is so rare and sought after.
Bea says that Gregg might be bipolar at some point - 6:57 There was also a lot of things cut due to time. If they had more time, I believe that the game would have been longer and not have as much of a sudden end. I personally wished they worked more on it for another year or two just so it could go on for longer, get more of that story and more of that wonderful music - The OST is amazing! Some things that were cut, like Germ's grandmother's conversation, would get you thinking more and have varied thoughts.
really like this vid. i have struggled alot with trying to hold on to something so precious that i thought i would be gone without it. only in the past 2 years have i been able to stop obsessing over it and form my own life, although my nostalgia shines through quite clearly in my art. anyway, keep going man
Legitimately the best analysis. I keep coming back to this. It picks up on things I haven't seen any other videos do; this video enhances the ending of the game 1000x.
I've always been curious since we learned about the hole "Shapes" Thing and the baseball-bat incident, Are what we seeing (The Graphics) What Mae's seeing? Simple line-less shapes one-dimensional shapes? And when she says "Possum Springs is more than just shapes" It could just be a figure-of-Speech? Because she knows what it is, she knows what its meant to be, something she couldn't say about collage, a place where all she ever saw about it was shapes, nothing but mindless shapes with little to no meaning.
I would love more essays on NITW, and I think I know why I love this channel so much now: you help give me the missing language and words to talk about games at such a high level. The world could use more people like you, and games could use more people able to wield storytelling in a way to create deeper meaning
The discussion of if the monster is real or not is actually very interesting. Obviously, people effected by mental illness will more than likely completely write off the fact that Mae was being driven by the monster at all. I know I did that, I hadn’t even made the connection until I watched your video. This game has so many moving and interconnecting parts its kind of incredible.
the 'memberberres from Southpark:"member feeling safe?"" is similar to the nostalgia themes of this game. 15:50: It's a game about longing for lost things on the individual level prohibits personal growth, and how large scale weaponized nostalgia literally kills people
Woah, like you let us come along in a condensed version of that roallercoaster ride... thanks man, I didn't have the time or the money for the ticket but now I feel like I lived through the rush of going down these sloped, a bit :)
Boomers will tell us to grow up when it is often they themselves who can't get over the past, and are projecting onto the younger generations. Nostalgia is blinding and addictive, and like most addictions it will only hurt you in the long run if you let it consume you.
While watching this, I thought "Wow, how cool, a game about all the nice little things." and that made me realize...why do I find such charm in a virtual event like watching TV with Mae's dad, something that's considered normal and something people might actively avoid in reality? I think a lot of the charm that you speak of yields an irony that people often have the option to do these things and don't want to, or won't get anything out of, so we turn to these scripted events that are meant to go well to give us these different feelings..and that bothers me a bit.
I know this reply is reaaally late, but I only finished the game recently and then went back to this analysis to see what you thought of it. Great one as always and jives really well with my own ideas and takes on the game. One aspect I have a different take on though, is the presence of the eldritch god. I don't believe the god actually exists, but is a hallucination taken to extremes by groupthink. Why do I think that? Well, I remember this old news article that you could read in the library which mentioned that the miners came across a certain type of fungus that caused hallucinations if you breath in their fumes. I honestly think that is the entire source of the cult. A group of distraught miners collectively hallucinating about an eldritch god that commands them to make sacrifices in order to safe their livelihoods. So in the end, there is no supernatural element in play at all in this game.
Awesome, awesome video, but maan I feel dumb for not noticing how all those threads linked together. This game is so much more complex than it initially let on, very excited to do another playthrough and experience all the Bea events.
I think the monster being real or a metaphor for depression/dissociation is supposed to be vague so the player can choose which one it is, depending on who they are and which suits their interpretation of the story best. The weirdest part to me is the Janitor though. No mention of him or his strange powers. He's just there.
night in the woods is my favourite coming of age story of all time. i played through it twice in very quick succession because of the impact it left on me.
The nostalgia death cult reminded me of The World's End, but even more sinister. Brilliant game, and really hit home for me, the most ever since was Depression Quest. Aimless career, financial issues, dead end town, depression. Very relevant and a nice companion with Kentucky Route Zero which also puts a laser focus on small towns, working class, and post-industrial economic anxiety.
Lovely video for a lovely game. I'm not at the end yet (I think I might actually be better off for having been spoiled), but I love this for the mood and atmosphere, the tone and themes. It's definitely one of my favourites of all the projects I've supported on Kickstarter, and I've supported a lot of 'em.
I interpreted the being in the mine differently. I’m my view, it was just as disinterested in the town as the one Mae spoke with, but the townspeople were so desperate for a solution to the town’s decline that they invented a narrative of its promises and threats
Loved the discussion of structure, and the amazing details about the characters in different ways. Completely disagree with you about Mae tho, explaining her problems as all a result of the elder god seems really odd, especially when the game had a heavy focus on mental illness in it's themes and Mae has a long past with this. Kinda rubbed me the wrong way, honestly. The game also keeps everything with the god super vague? Like something supernatural probably exists in the game, but it never reveals what, and is super cagey about confirming/denying things. Loved the ending tho, so many details about the game make me happy and could talk about forever.
I think it is a case of "maybe magic maybe mundane", with Mae's perspective being too twisted for us to have a clear answer. Mae might have an ancient demon god corroding her brain... or just have dissociative disorder and had confirmation bias built hallucinations where on the mines, after all it is said somewhere the water was poisonous and expelled hallucigenic fumes
Can we maybe get another video expanding on what else you liked or did not like? cause it helps me see what i missed on my play through or cool connections i did not make like with the alcohol
It's nice to have it put out so plainly. Once thing that tarnished my love of the experience a bit was all the little hints that the narrative was unreliable
As someone from the midwest i LOVE the idea of the economy essentially being an eldritch god that the people who live here dont understand but desperately try to appease it by making numerous sacrifices including the future of their own children. Just for the one percent chance (or zero really) that the eldritch economy will shine a benevolent light back upon the town. If youve ever lived in a dying town it will really hit home and is a genius metaphor. I really love future narratives that ties lovecraftian monsters to systemic issues like the economy, racism, law enforcement, legal system, prison system, assault culture etc etc.
Wow I have seen this game referenced a lot but didn't realize just how much it speaks to something I've lived. Living in the Midwest you live in the ruins of a previously bustling society, nearly everyone I went to school with left for greener pastures. I for the longest time felt that I lived in a rotten place that was literally a tomb, meant to sap my will to live away. But as I've gotten older I have begun to love this place. The people here are genuine, they are nice, and the place is kinda idyllic. Though many of the things about it being ruins still apply it's also so much more. And though my plan is to move away from here, I will still miss many of the nice souls that inhabit this place. It's always heartwarming to see something which clearly comes from a very similar place.
Night in the woods has been better for my mental health than professional counselling. I think about it in my darkest moments, and when I remember the "I want it to hurt when I lose" scene, I start to feel my passion returning. It's so powerful for me - to desire any emotion and to latch on to it, to recognize that things can be good, to focus on the small beautiful moments in life. I read Mae's mental illness as dispassionate empty nihilistic depression, and I relate hard to it - Why care about anything? Nothing matters, nothing is real, it's all shapes/atoms/cells/particles in a random sea of other shit, it ultimately has no meaning. But the game doesn't give in to that nihilism - the important thing is your relationships with people, and the poignant moments that come from that. Life can be beautiful, and that scares me into acting more than anything else.
I think the end is also meant to be sort of vague, so it's hard to tell if Mae's mental health problems are actually their own thing, or the effect of the black goat. Which, I sort of like? because if it wasn't, it seems like the cult would have no real purpose there. But if it was, the parts about her mental health wouldn't seem as genuine, at least to me
This game really reminds me of Seconds by Bryan Lee O'malley. Especially the idea of a coming of age story that is mixed with supernatural elements and accepting the past to move into the future.
I'm really fucking late on this but GOD dude, I would LOVE if you made a sequel to this analysis!! I've to hear your interpretation. As always, wonderful job:)
Thank you very much for making this video. It helped me clarify how I felt about and now I can better put it into words. Good analysation, clear opinions, and a good extra rant at the end. GREGG RULZ, OK
One of the things you didn't mention was the dialog trees and the game remembering what you have done and what you have said. If you keep talking to your mother early on, she says she's reading a stupid book about a boy raised by eels. Do this and "EEEEEELLLLLLLS honey!" becomes a repeated, running in joke between them. Don't do this and it's never mentioned. The game is full of moments like that.
EEEEEEEELELLLLLLS
That was one of the most touching aspects of the game for me. So many dialogue options and choices have consequences later that feel organic and make the game world seem even more alive. Got stuck in a basement with Bea one night? She'll mention it later. Make a horrific robot son with Gregg? That'll come up later when you're not expecting it.
The "Eels, honey!" thing hit especially close to home because it illustrates how close Mae and her mom are. Their relationship doesn't feel forced. The dialogue is expertly written to show where they stand with each other, whether they're fighting or joking. I could relate to their relationship, having made a few inside jokes with my mom that can last for weeks or months, while also having occasional run-ins with her about the fact that my life is going nowhere. These interactions were perfect mirrored in the game, to an uncanny degree. This game is pretty great at making its various parts feel so lifelike and realistic.
Wow, I never realized the recurring "Eeeeeeeeeellls honey" joke happens only if you keep talking with your Mom. That's an amazing detail!
Gregg rulz ok?
Ok.
Gregg rulz ok!
eels
Crimes?
Joserbala CRIMES!
It's interesting to me that there's not actually any concrete evidence of the supernatural. The cult talks about Black Goat, but there's never any sort of visible magic, or demons, or ghosts or anything. All of Mae's visions could be explained by her own stress and mental illness, and I honestly think it's more interesting that way.
Cory Andrews I mean, Eide does kinda appear in the elevator shaft right behind everyone else. That's pretty impossible, right?
@@geoffreyprecht2410 will it was pretty dark, right? Though the cult does mention him being able to like walk through walls so I dunno
The only time I can think of is when the ghost of Mae's grandfather sits next to her on the couch, while she's sleeping.
@@hola542 when? I don't remember that. Or if I even got that scene at all
@@ttl7526 you can see it at 8:55 in this play through: th-cam.com/video/Nxz1TCirFxE/w-d-xo.html
I think what enthralls me with night in the woods is how it captures the sort of blissful mundaness of life ,i'm not sure mundane is the right word, like as crazy it gets for the most part it's just about people living and I appreciate that because often it's hard for stories to be about normal lives without feeling boring or coming off as pretentious.
ProfessionalBaka FireWatch did it well.
ProfessionalBaka There is also another game which i forgot the name of involves just two family members just talking while on a road trip and you can pick the speeches.
One of the things that immediately invested me in this game was the moment Mae first stepped outside on the first day, that glowing dawn sun, people running around or just chilling, the towns quiet and peaceful atmosphere with that wind faintly blowing in the background. Coupled with the incredible music that plays, and it just resonated so hard with me cause it reminded me so much of...the real world in a strange way really.
A lot of people have said the ending feels kind of abrupt and awkward, but I didn't really get that feeling--it actually all worked really well for me, largely because I was really getting this feeling of deep, existential dread leading up to it that was paid off by all the supernatural cosmic horror stuff. A large part of that was because I fell for a red herring. The game actually really heavily foreshadows that it's going to end in a bummer: the autumnal setting, the very title of "Die Anywhere Else," the conversations you have about the dusk stars and their emphasis on death and martyrdom, the cliff at the edge of the church where the music cuts out and my very first thought was "somebody is going to jump off of this thing," the overall sense of melancholy and all the talk of ghosts and loss, all had me pretty well convinced the game was going to end with Mae's death, and I was really genuinely anxious about that possibility.
Over the last few in-game days Mae's health and mental state starts to deteriorate pretty severely (almost literally everyone you talk to comments on it) and there's a huge uptick in conversations about how something bad is just around the corner, and playing through those parts my first time through I was basically thinking to myself "man okay if this ends in a bummer I am going to be really sad because I relate a lot to Mae and her situation, but I'd have to accept it because boy things sure are a bummer and I certainly don't see a way to make them better." I had this very distinct sensation of vague, creeping dread that grows and grows until it starts to suffocate you, and it made a huge impression on me because it's a feeling I know intimately. It's something that haunted me all through my own (otherwise very smooth and ultimately successful) stint at college, this feeling of intense anxiety about an impending deadline that I can't face and inevitably deal with by trying not to think about it, which obviously just makes the problem worse so the anxiety grows and facing it becomes even harder in a vicious cycle that only resolves itself once I've completely fucked myself over and have to go on some kind of three-day work binge writing ten different papers in the 60 hours before final grades are due. It's a feeling I think about a lot but have never really seen represented this clearly in a work of fiction before, and recognizing it in the narrative made me really invested in how the story was going to end. It was an incredible relief when the ending wound up being not a bummer at all but actually kind of hopeful, even if in a rather frank, bittersweet kind of way, and the core message was something I needed to hear right now. So maybe it's just that I'm extra charitable towards the last act for all of those weird personal reasons, but I felt like the narrative structure was really successful and I think the thematic threads that tie everything together are evident enough even on a first playthrough that the stuff you get in the last act doesn't really feel that incongruous.
I kind of wonder if some of this doesn't come down to an age difference, though--I'm a bit younger (I graduated college last year) and to me the big thematic thing was less about not being able to let go of the past and more about the fear that there is no future. In a way those are the same thing, I think, but which way you read it kind of colors how you interpret Mae's inner conflict and what the elder god represents metaphorically. I'm financially insecure and uncertain about where my life is going, so the aspect that resonated with me was this idea of "everything sucks and nobody knows how to fix it or what the solution even looks like, but you need to keep moving forward anyway because life is worth living for its own sake." But I can imagine the message might read a little differently if I was in another part of my life with less existential insecurity, so it's interesting to see an analysis that puts more emphasis on the coming-of-age story, which is definitely there but wasn't really the #1 takeaway for me.
Opposing Farce thank you
+
@ThisIsMyRealName so, fun story!
When I was in high school or so, my parents had me do a psych eval, because I had been diagnosed with Asperger's some years before and my mother wanted more recent results to argue with the school about my IEP. The new tests supported the previous finding, but they also diagnosed me with ADD and anxiety, and that's where the fun part comes in.
My mom didn't like the idea of me having ADD, because she was scared about medication, and all of my teachers basically thought that diagnosis sounded fake. I wasn't a hyperactive ADD kid, I was sleepy, lethargic, spacey, anti-social, and so good at absorbing information that when I fell asleep in class they would try to trip me up with a question and I would always have the answer anyway. I was a classic case of autism brain, certainly not an ADHD student. So they just brushed past that diagnosis, didn't talk to me about it, didn't make plans to deal with it, and chalked up my troubling work habits to laziness and a lack of interest. I didn't even know I was diagnosed with ADD until literally this year, and once I learned that it explained a lot about the way my brain works and the problems I've struggled with.
I'm in the process of dealing with that now--between the autism, the ADD, and figuring out I'm trans just a few months after I wrote that original comment, finding a psychiatrist who can navigate all the junk going on in my head isn't the easiest thing in the world--but honestly I'm still frustrated I never got the chance to deal with this sooner, and I can't help wondering where I'd be if I had been able to manage this better and get more use out of my time in college. I don't know that it would be somewhere different, let alone somewhere better, but I do wonder.
@@wyrdautumn best wishes friend.
ditto w.r.t. undiagnosed/misdiagnosed/ignored ADHD. I also had so much hyperactivity as a child, and have so much distractibility as an adult.
I actually saw the "dead shapes" that Mae sees - aside from being a really gripping description of derealisation/dissociation - as a metafictional reference to the game's art style. According to the text it started, after all, after Mae stopped playing a dating video game that she'd invested a lot of herself into, so the exact way that it manifested might have been influenced by it; and inside the subtext, there are a lot of instances of escapism in the story, which Night in the Woods, as a videogame, also provides to a degree. Then there are some not-so-subtle references to the shapes having lines of dialogue "written" by somebody else, which seems like a dead giveaway. Furthermore, Scott Benson has created animations before that play around with the artificiality of his style - look up the music video to Toh Kay's "With Any Sort Of Certainty", and you'll see what I mean.
However, this isn't to say that I think this whole plot point is nothing but trite, artsy-fartsy "it's just a game fam" idiocy; no, I think that rather, it is meant as a way to call the player back to the fact that the problems which they find artificially portrayed inside the game exist in their own reality - the wage gap, the death of small-town America, predatory bank loans, expensive education, mental illness - and that they require action there, where they hurt real people and not fictional, stylised animals made out of dead "shapes" and written dialogue.
Can we also talk about how the game also has HUGE implications about how the older generations in the real world, by holding on to their old world views with their old world blues, are actively hurting everyone around them because they can't accept that the old world just aint coming back? That they are willing and ready to kill what they deem "scum" or "worthless" to keep the illusion of their golden age alive?
ReasonForNo ReasonForNo its okey to interpret that way, but that would kill the game a little bit; for that this sickening 'nostalgia' is the demon of not only older generations, but all generations, all people.
That was pretty explicitly covered in the video though.
But the situation can only be IMPROVED with honest analysis and criticism of the past, the way nostalgia is abused, people talk about the 1950's - 1970's as "the good ol' days" when "America was great" but their nostalgia hyper focuses on Madison Square Garden, and the government support of returning G.I.s, paying no mind to the wretched backlash against the civil rights movement, or the Zoot Suit Riots, or the Urban removal programs.
Yeah people who think budget cutting Meals on Wheels and education is really going to bring back coal jobs need to stop and wake up. Instead of blaming others like the young and turned down poor that if anything it's just making it worst and the hole they dig just gets so deep they are throwing even more money that could be used to improve the system for the young and poor to help them out and make more suitable jobs for today's times
urban reNewal
I honestly wish you WOULD keep going about this game haha. You're right, it has so many little moments that range from hilarious to heart-wrenching/warming, which I think is what makes it so good.
Marc Golsmith Reminds me Mass Effect Andromeda and Dragon Age Inquisition.
Yes, that last bit, let it be foreshadowing for more NitW videos. A whole Sharkle video!
WE NEED MORE
Weaponised nostalgia. That's a good one.
Prepare the nostalgia cannons! Load the 80s cultural and economical landscape! FIRE!
Also known as Make America Great Again.
For what it's worth, Bea explicitly says she thinks Gregg is bipolar. Obviously, it's not a formal diagnosis, but it's an interpretation of his character that the game at least encourages.
and gregg mentions how he has ‘really up ups and really down downs’ which is a obvious reference to young adults suffering with bipolar.
Everything my English class has been trying to teach me, since the beginning of the semester, about the theme of Coming of Age in a story was just explained in 18 minutes with a game about a college dropout and her friends and a murdercult. This is fucking _great._
P.S. Please do more videos. These are amazing!
Spectacular video,
but Mae didn't drop out primarily due to the Black Goat interference, maybe none at all. Her couch scene with Bea or Greg (depending on who you favor in the game) very obviously describes Derealization/Depersonalization, a somewhat rare and horrible episodic mental condition. I am really not sure that her baseball episode was primarily due to Black Goat influence, as her description of the episodes is so close to DR/DP.
Everyone in the game struggles with mental problems, inherent or accrued, and finds stability in each other. You mention Gregg's bipolarity which Bea mentions in her favored-storyline and is expanded on with his childhood trauma with "the sheep", Angus grew up with a horribly abusive family that had its own traumatic effects, and you mentioned Bea's feeling trapped but didn't expound on it as much in terms of her depressive disdain for optimism.
The repeated emphasis on Dr. Hank being detrimental in terms of therapy when trying to be a medical jack-of-all-trades is an illustration of the modern American public being inadequate in terms of recognizing, respecting, and dealing with those with mental illness, either misinterpreting what the real problem is and assigning incorrect treatment or maybe reacting negatively to the ill person overall.
Yeah that was one bit I didn't agree with the video (and I see a lot of people echo elsewhere) the idea that the Black Goat/Ibon was solely responsible for Mae's mental health problems. I saw it more as them being two separate things that, during the game, intersected more and more. As in, the Black Goat made Mae's mental problems worse (and only during the game), but was not the sole reason they exist.
It just really rubs me wrong that the other reading basically is just like... "mental health problems exist because of cosmic gods" and I don't think a development team comprised of people who all deal with mental health problems would write a story with that as the message.
Very insightful
I connected with Mae on that but I couldn't quite put my finger on why cus I wasn't as violent as her but I still had those "just shapes" moments. I leaned about DR/DP through TikTok and then further research and yeah it sucks when it happens. I no long panic but it still feels strange and there's no real quick fix. Also half of society thinks you're faking it anyway and that also sucks.
I honestly didn't think the God existed after a second playthrough, at least not the one those cultists worshipped. Maybe the God of the forest, the apathetic creature on a distant shore, exists and whatever influence it has is misconstrued as the cult's God. To me Mae's condition and the cult's obsession are essentially the same, but they're affected by an entity that doesn't really care about or mean to affect them.
All that said, I'm really glad you spoke in depth about this game. I've really enjoyed going back to it time and again for bittersweet comfort over the past few weeks.
"I believe in a universe that doesn't care...
...and people that do."
Yeah, my reading was more that this was illusory or projected onto a strange phenomena. One of the articles says as much, about people suffering from hallucinations and doing and seeing bizarre things because of gasses escaping from the mines under people's homes. And if the cultists were digging further, they might have just managed to set that off again. At least the game supports a narrative that doesn't invoke any kind of supernatural, but doesn't try to necessarily explain everything either, I think it just speaks to a toxic mindset that hurt a lot of people and people who were struggling latching out onto it, hoping it might help.
@@Darasilverdragon that’s easily one of my favorite quotes from any game or form of media and mae/angus stargazing will always hold a close place to my heart
This is an excellent critique of an often misunderstood game. Just two things I'd like to mention...
1) It's perfectly possible to sustain a read where there actually isn't anything supernatural going on at all, where the cultists invented the Black Goat god and are seeing patterns that aren't actually there. (Angus and Mae even have a dialogue about how humans are pattern-finders when they make up constellations.) In this read, Mae's worsening nightmares are just a consequence of her depression and dissociation, and any ups or downs in the town's welfare that coincided with feeding or starving the god are coincidental ex-post-facto rationalizations, and Mae's final encounter with the god in the mine shaft is just a hallucination induced by her shaky mental and physical state. There's even a newspaper clipping in the library which describes other people having the exact same nightmares Mae does, and it being attributed to gas leaks around town. So there are non-supernatural explanations for everything that happens in the game's final act if you don't want to buy into the Eldritch stuff, which (I think) further reinforces that to the devs, whether or not there's any sort of weird ghost/demon stuff going on is ultimately beside the point. The point is to interpret all of it metaphorically. Which leads to...
2) The game has a clear leftist perspective on politics and socioeconomics -- not just a liberal bemoaning of the troubles of small-town America, and chalking it up to "economic forces" bigger than any individual, but a leftist's perspective that there's a fundamental injustice in this, and that everyone in the town is a victim at the same time that some (most, actually) are also victimizers of others. The town has a history of labor strikes, sometimes violently so. If you talk to the old woman at the Pierogi stand you learn that Mae's beloved grandfather was an agitator in his youth, and you can even find evidence in Mae's basement that her granddad was part of a secret society of anti-capitalists. You can then give said evidence (a tooth of an old mining boss) to her dad in the epilogue to inspire him to unionize his grocery store. Leftism is also reflected in Mae's two closest friends: Gregg is an energetic anarchist and Bea is a grounded socialist, reflecting two different ends of leftist ideology. Both of them, along with Mae, are still young and naive enough to not have really nuanced socioeconomic philosophies, but they definitely are interested in radical politics. This also, I think, deepens a read of the conflict with the cultists at the end. Yes, as Bea points out, it is a pretty on-the-nose metaphor, but it's also an ageless conflict -- as the social systems which maintained a relative peace before are decaying in Possum Springs, the people have a choice between authoritarian conservatism and a less clear, but more just, left-wing path. The cultists display several of the traits Umberto Eco identified as "Ur-Fascism:" things like romanticized longing for a pre-lapsarian past, viewing their mission in religious terms, projecting systemic grievances onto certain individuals in society (immigrants, youths) and so on. Contending with this also adds an extra poignancy to Mae's sympathy for the cultists before one of them attacks her; she recognizes that they're scared and sad, and that they're just looking for simple solutions to complex problems, and that that's a scarily human impulse.
Anyways, just a few ideas I wanted to bring up. This video is excellent, like the rest of your work.
Wow, this read of narrative is incredible. Thank you for sharing.
Beautifully written!
-That went fast.
-What did?
-The Fall.
-Always does, hon.
-Ok...
I personally like to view the plot with the monster being a metaphor, a delusion rather than something that exists and creates influence out of nowhere. That being said I love the fact that this is left up to interpretation and I very much enjoy how they did the story throughout. Probably my goty 2017 for whatever that's worth
is this a game about coming to age who's villains are actually unable to come to the age?
It's coming of age. As in, the age is coming
What Shada meant is that it's a Coming Of Age Story in which the villains are stuck in the past, and so Failed their own "coming of age" (granted that age was like, 50).
one of my favorite parts of the game was learning about when the union workers in the mine beat their boss' teeth out
oh thats what the tooth in the safe was?? ew
I really loved this video, but I feel like you may have glossed over the mental issues that Mae may be dealing with. My theory is that she is so desperately clinging to her memories of Possum Springs because she is suffering from a dissociative mental disorder - where things lose their meaning and just become "shapes," instead of seeming real. This condition may have been exacerbated in the isolation she experienced in college, which is what caused her to drop out and move back home; because home was the only thing she had real memories of any more.
Could it have been all caused by the monster? Perhaps. But this is a game that blurs the line between allegory and actuality, and pits the hardworking youth that have been dealt a bad hand in life with the older folks who will stop at nothing to return to the success and hope they knew in their younger years. To me, this seems to fit thematically.
Maybe this is something you hadn't looked at yet, I dunno! What I love about this game is that it's difficult to differentiate between what's metaphorical and what's canon, and maybe that's the struggle that Mae is dealing with in the events of the game itself.
Lemme know if all that made sense!
As someone who had a very similar (if maybe less pronounced) experience to Mae at college with regards to isolation and dissociation, I reckon you're really on point with all of this.
I don't know what Chris's personal experience is like with this sort of thing, but I'd posit it'd be hard for him to have made that deeper reading without having some experience either himself or via someone he knows.
Um, there is a legitimate "Pastabilities" restaurant in my town. I suppose that doesn't show very well
Goddamn yes! Thanks!
Okay, thoughts. the game reminded me a lot of the people in the American neighborhoods I've grown up and lived in, which very much felt like Possum Springs (only wealthier and bigger, admittedly). Even right now, my college shadows over the old industrial town it's in, almost like a beacon.
And I loved anthropomorphic animal worlds set in identifiable towns like Richard Scarry's books and Arthur.
So I guess what I'm saying is that the game's setting, and it's handling of young adult stress and problems and mental disorders feels very personal and close to heart. It shows a lot of beauty in parts of life even when faced with the worst economic and personal prospects. Thanks, Campster.
I actually liked the fact that the ending seemed to come out of nowhere. As a coming of age story, I saw the sudden focus on the cult plotline as analogous to how adulthood sneaks up on you. One day you're hanging out with your childhood friends, and the next you have to think about jobs, money, and the future. Just like how you don't notice the subtle plot pieces about the cult the first time through the game, you don't really notice that you've become an adult until you're abruptly thrown into it.
Night in the Woods shows you don't need a huge budget or a AAA title to make a good game in this day and age. The genre doesn't matter it's all about having a good paced story with characters you connect with and care about, and you know what I think this game accomplished just that with Mae's illusive collage past and the slow uncover of the disappearances of the children.
Great video! I agree with everything here!
I felt the mystery subplot had a good purpose early on, before taking the forefront, even if it felt very "separate" from the interactions with your friends.
Finding an arm in the streets did a pretty good job at making me think, "this is going somewhere", before I got to know the characters enough that interactions with them became the main thing driving me forward. This, and the other little early mysteries like the inaccessible room in the house were a good idea I think. It takes a little while for you to get "comfortable" with a cast, so having a few little hooks to pique your curiosity is a good move I think.
I think Mae's "spoiled-ness" resonated as pretty real for me. And I did get bored of the VAST DISTANCES between things more than once (every visit out to the church is a HIKE, man). I was also fond of the kind of weird mythology of the setting? Like, the stories of the constellations and how they had bearing on Mae's view of her own choices in life...and how the game portrays God's servants as well-meaning and ultimately unable to save people from themselves...
But yes, loved this.
yeah, check out the two supplemental games if you haven't, Lost Constellation, and Longest Night, they both are about/in the NITW mythology, and Lost Constellation is really great too.
"In a small town that threatens to swallow as many lives as it can" see what you did there buddy
I'm actually gonna miss Bea, Gregg and Angus I really do hope that there will be some kind of spinoff or sequel, maybe with slightly less elder god
I'd love a sequel, but due to the suicide and abuse & assault allegations against the main guy who created the game, I'm not sure the co-creator of the game would be interested in creating a sequel. I'd imagine that for her, creating a sequel would bring up a lot of bad memories.
@@Pre-Nup oh yeah definitely, I think I made this comment before twitter drove him to suicide, or at least before I knew it happened
Wish granted kiddo
@@CarcosaheadWHAT DO YOU MEAN
@@darkboy2216 THE MURDER TEAM MADE ANOTHER GAME! fuck them
great video, and very interesting insights! i think the one point where i'd disagree with your reading, personally, is mae's mental illness--i definitely saw how the confrontation with the elder god thing in the end reflected her mental heatlh issues in some ways, but i personally never saw the former as directly causing the latter. if anything, i think that would cheapen her decision to seek help by pinning her problems on a supernatural force. still, i can see how your interpretation might make the final act tie in with mae's overarching story a bit better, and it's an interesting take
I don't know if the monster "gave" Mae these feelings, or if these feelings just opened her (and the cultists) up to its influence. Like, that's a bit vague - the monster didn't kill Mae's grandfather, but once Mae was missing him it started to take hold. Does that make the monster the grief itself, or the nihilistic depression that stems from that grief, or just an entity that feeds on those emotions to make people do what it wants? It's really hard to day.
That said, I think (and this is 100% my interpretation with like, little to no textual evidence) that Mae does have her own personal problems to work through that don't stem from elder gods messing with her brain meats. Frustration, repressed grief, a bit of arrested development. But the nihilism and "just-shapes-i-ness" style depression seems tied directly to the Black Goat's influence, and clears up after she decides to reject it. So yeah, I don't want to make light of real mental illness or imply Mae's problems are "just" this thing, but also they make it kind of clear the monster is in her head? I dunno.
I mean, the game ultimately leaves it up in the air to what extent Mae's perception of reality is accurate. Remember, only she and the leader of the cult ever actually encounter the monster, and while the cult thinks their sacrifices are helping the town, there's nothing in their recounting that can't be explained through coincidence. (Also, there's some stuff in the newspaper archives in the library about gasses from the mines causing hallucinations in some citizens, so Possum Springs has a history of This Sort of Thing. Of course, maybe the gasses weren't real and the monster is. OOOoooOOOO!)
I don't think her encounter with the Black Goat can really be boiled down to any one thing - in fact, I think the game tries to make it as applicable as possible. Mae doesn't really know whether she's talking to a god or a demon or a political ideology or economic forces or just her own fucked-up psychology, and it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a something bigger than her; she cannot hope to defeat it. It is malaise and decay, stripping all the soul from the world until only the outlines remain. Only by recognizing that she is destined to go through this process too, to fail and die and be forgotten, can she walk away.
It's a kind of weaponized nihilism. Maybe even weaponized masochism. She will always lose to the Black Goat; what she can do is turn loss into a victory of its own.
The whole "just shapes" part sounded a lot like dissociation to me, which makes sense because Mae pretty obviously suffers from depression. I never got the sense it was directly connected to the monster, either.
i was just about to come say the same thing - i never really read the monster in the pit as even actually existing in a literal sense, i thought it was all mae's mental illness. the just shapes stuff and losing it on that one kid at the baseball game read like someone who's dissociating badly, and it hit me really hard because it was the first time someone actually put dissociation into good words for me
I think it's just part of the genre conventions of magical realism, where the reality of their universe is different from our own in order to represent moods, feelings and ideas. In their universe the monster may factually exist, however it exists in order to be an allegory for genuine things in our universe. Much like Buffy the Vampire Slayer uses demons as an allegory for the challenges of growing up. Or similar to how J K Rowling uses Dementors as an allegory for the depression she's experienced. It's just an extraordinarily complex and broad sort of metaphor or imagery that exists across the entire text.
In their universe it's a monster, in ours its a psychological condition however we can draw an easy parallel between the two and use one to understand or discuss the other.
I watched this when it came out, thought the game sounded neat, and proceeded to forget about it for half a year. Now I've finally "played" it (well, watched it admittedly), and I'm really glad this video planted the seed in my brain back in March! Night in the Woods probably has the best purely narrative content I've seen in a game. It felt like reading a book- a really resonant, nostalgic, melancholy book with a whole clusterfuck of ideas and themes to chew on. One element that stuck out to me was how ambiguous the game's attitude is toward Mae. In the earlier sections it really feels like the writers are calling her out for her immaturity and insensitivity, with Mae herself being the only one, including the player, who doesn't realize she's a bit of a self-pitying prick. That angle quickly starts to shift as the story progresses, though, and by the end of everything she's mostly a victim of circumstance pitted against a much more concrete form of self-destructive behavior (ie, a murdercult). As such I find the game's message a little hard to read. Is it criticizing millennial naivety or old-guard curmudgeonism? It really has to be either both at once, or neither- perhaps the narrative is sympathetic toward both sides since they're caught in the machinations of societal forces far larger than either. Throw in the omnipresent overtones of nihilistic philosophy and spirituality, and the game becomes simultaneously twice as thematically confusing and ten times more accurate in portraying the exact mental state of a reality-shocked pseudoadult trying to find meaning in their life. All in all it's a bit of a mouthful but damn meaty.
Your ability to put words to things and decribe them are just amazing. I can explain ordinary things, and my gut feels more complicated ones. But your description of the moral of the story is phenominal. I feel like I am solid writer and have no idea how you do that.
I listen to this one most out of all your videos. "A longing for a thing you've lost that's so strong it twists you inside and removes your ability to move forward from it. That paints everything in the now as boring and ashen and... well like Mae said, just shapes. And the only thing that matters is recapturing the thing that was lost." - ugh, that's so good.
Damn. I swear, every time it's like you lend me your eyes to see games the way you do. Thank you for doing this. Much appreciated.
I loved your analysis. Once again, you've caught so many more themes then most content creators on this website were able to wrap their heads around.
However, I take umbrage with the fact that you've reduced the themes of Mae's mental illness to JUST the influence of the thing in the mines. It's clear that it's exacerbated in late game by That Entity (or perhaps just the stress of the looming threat she discovers and the fact that people in power never actually believe her), but I think it's much more important that we understand Mae to be depressed and anxious, often resulting in paranoia when the world becomes a bit too much. A key theme running through the pivotal moments of her breakdowns is 'illusion'. The first time, she develops what she considers to be a type of bond with a character in a game, but in an instant realizes that it's all shapes, and that her grasp of the world is much less firm then she ever imagined. The second incident relates to a statue on her college campus (spoken of once or twice, but only seen in a dream prior to the conversation where she destroys it with a baseball bat.) Her heavy loneliness combined with the stress of schoolwork manifests as paranoia and guilt, and she begins unconsciously anthropomorphizing the campus statue that points directly at her dorm room window. When asked later why she felt she had leave, she references the accusatory nature of the art installation, not quite able to put her feelings into words.
Then again, perhaps I'm just reaching because I found the aspects of Mae's neuro-divergence to be particularly relatable and poignant to similar instances in my own mental state at various points in my life, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But regardless, I think you should take a deeper look at this particular aspect of Mae's character.
(Also, I wasn't able to find a fluid way to fit this in but, I think it's also important that we don't accept the eldritch god wholecloth. I personally think the story works a lot better if the elder god is taken as something that might but probably doesn't exist rather then something that 100% definitely does.)
Yeah. I, too, will remember Night in the Woods for the intimate moments, whether it is Mae spending time with her friends, or her just sitting on the bridge, sun behind her. The game really did a good job at selling Possum Springs and the characters.
Also,
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELS, Honey, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELS.
SHARKLE!
Hoi
I'm surprised you didn't mention the theory that the The Black Goat was never real to begin with. My interpretation at the end was there was no mystical element, but the cult THOUGHT that there was, and that they were helping the town by sacrificing people, attributing lucky breaks to the god, and downfalls to not feeding it enough, something of a sharpshooter fallacy. Mae's having a lot of pressure and psychological issues, and when they talk about it to her, it makes sense to her that an evil god is chasing her, rather than a consistent mental problem she's having difficulties with.
As someone who has experience with disrealization/depersonalization and weird hallucinations caused by stress and loneliness. You always try to find a reason for the way you are to feel like you have control over it all, sometimes you even blame it on clear sunny days. Its clinging onto a hope thats going to hurt you because you're scared and the only other way to get better again is to accept everything as it is. Including yourself. It will always be there though, it will fade in and out. You'll find more relief from acknowledging why its being caused and then moving on is easier.
Story structure wise it actually has a bit in common with hot fuzz which probably explains part of the problem with any amateur sleuth story they need some contrived reason to get involved. If say Mae was a burnt out cop coming home from the big city thinking that returning home would be a way to destress then you could have her looking into the missing persons early on but keep that in the background the whole time until she sees the kidnapping. That would unfortunately clash with the themes though.
and mae would never be a cop! eff the cops!
Hey, you convinced me to play this and it made me cry so uh thanks it’s really good
Not sure that I agree that the monster singing to her is what caused her to drop out of college. What she describes as happening because of the beast didn't really start happening until a couple of days she got back, while what she describes as happening to her in high school doesn't quite line up with what they said the beast does.
My guess is that in high school, she developed some sort of dissociative disorder or schizophrenia (the "just shapes" thing is literally known as derealization.) that often surfaces around that age and her lack of access to proper mental health care (once again, the plight of Possum Springs comes back into focus there) lead to her being incapable of handling college life.
In which case that would make Mae be one of the few times I've seen a fictional character suffer from a psychotic disorder that's actually realistic for the most part. What I would agree with is the beast taking advantage of her condition as a vulnerable person, seeing her as being a prime candidate for being a possible new glimmered member of the cult because of the alienation her disorder (which she still lacks access to care for) causes her.
its funny to hear the pacing criticisms, because honestly it was one of my favourite parts. the slowness at the beginning of the game doesnt seem like a compromise to me, it feels intentional. the feeling of doing the same thing every day, seeing the same people; although it is still enjoyable, after doing it for so long you get this weird sense of dread that you arent going anywhere (maybe this feeling is exclusive to people who have grown up in similar situations, im not sure). and JUST when that hits, harfest happens. to me the following sections sort of... materialised the anxieties i already had about the plot and pushes you forward, so when it all pops off it feels like the buildup has been happening all game. similarly, the sudden introduction of the supernatural is much less jarring when you consider that its still continuing the character arcs you've been following all game: whether you interpret it as real or metaphorical or both.
I saw you made a video about this game and within 30 seconds of watching I decided to pause the video and go buy the game. I never would have played this game if you didn't make this video so thank you.
*Why must my life reflect so similarly to this game, especially now that I'm a young adult who just keeps on refusing to grow up despite my age going on without me.*
Its like a mix of Oxenfree and Life is Strange.
that's a great description of NITW
noelwiz peter Thanks
Except imo Oxenfree had a reasonable, understandable, and satisfying ending.
I thought life is strange was kind terrible though unlike nitw
it's like a story game. yes, that's how story games work, what a surprise.
I interpreted Mae's discussion with the "elder being" as a personal discussion with one's own mental illness. I played through this with my brother, and when that part happened, at the very climax of the game, we stopped playing and had a long heartfelt discussion about stress, anxiety, and our respective mental illnesses. That was the closest I've ever felt to my brother. It was a beautiful moment and I'm glad this game was able to inspire it.
What I got from the whole ghost/cult plot was that the older generation that was part of the prosperity of possum springs cannot let go and blames the youth for its current state. I feel like that sounds pretty accurate of how things are in the real world too. The older generation are essentially ghosts in that what they experienced simply does not exist anymore and aiming to make this or that great again when it was never really that great (you get a sense of that through the workers striking and revolting in the archives). The old folk want things to go back to the way things used to be, the youth of possum springs can’t see a way to get out. It’s just a continuous cycle
Please, do keep going about this game.
Your videos are great and are always a very nice treat everytime they come out.
Thank you for making them.
Want to compliment you. Since I stumbled across your videos, you've been a never fail view by me, everytime you post a video, which is a big compliment since free time is so rare and sought after.
you uploaded on my birthday!!!
Bea says that Gregg might be bipolar at some point - 6:57
There was also a lot of things cut due to time. If they had more time, I believe that the game would have been longer and not have as much of a sudden end. I personally wished they worked more on it for another year or two just so it could go on for longer, get more of that story and more of that wonderful music - The OST is amazing!
Some things that were cut, like Germ's grandmother's conversation, would get you thinking more and have varied thoughts.
So in case anyone else traditionally skips over the credits sequence, there is a small after-credits seen that we don't usually get from Errant Signal
really like this vid. i have struggled alot with trying to hold on to something so precious that i thought i would be gone without it. only in the past 2 years have i been able to stop obsessing over it and form my own life, although my nostalgia shines through quite clearly in my art. anyway, keep going man
Legitimately the best analysis. I keep coming back to this. It picks up on things I haven't seen any other videos do; this video enhances the ending of the game 1000x.
I've always been curious since we learned about the hole "Shapes" Thing and the baseball-bat incident, Are what we seeing (The Graphics) What Mae's seeing? Simple line-less shapes one-dimensional shapes? And when she says "Possum Springs is more than just shapes" It could just be a figure-of-Speech? Because she knows what it is, she knows what its meant to be, something she couldn't say about collage, a place where all she ever saw about it was shapes, nothing but mindless shapes with little to no meaning.
*spoiler*
Isn't the arm the reason that one cultist had to go? so it 'does' come back?
Yeah they killed that guy off because he fucked up by dropping the arm in front of the clik clak diner.
I would love more essays on NITW, and I think I know why I love this channel so much now: you help give me the missing language and words to talk about games at such a high level. The world could use more people like you, and games could use more people able to wield storytelling in a way to create deeper meaning
The discussion of if the monster is real or not is actually very interesting. Obviously, people effected by mental illness will more than likely completely write off the fact that Mae was being driven by the monster at all. I know I did that, I hadn’t even made the connection until I watched your video. This game has so many moving and interconnecting parts its kind of incredible.
the 'memberberres from Southpark:"member feeling safe?"" is similar to the nostalgia themes of this game. 15:50: It's a game about longing for lost things on the individual level prohibits personal growth, and how large scale weaponized nostalgia literally kills people
ok oh my god how dare you make me almost cry with what you said just before the credits rolled
I really enjoyed my second playthrough! Great analysis! You captured the vibe really well!
Thanks for this breakdown. I love all the little cute and realistic details
Woah, like you let us come along in a condensed version of that roallercoaster ride... thanks man, I didn't have the time or the money for the ticket but now I feel like I lived through the rush of going down these sloped, a bit :)
Boomers will tell us to grow up when it is often they themselves who can't get over the past, and are projecting onto the younger generations. Nostalgia is blinding and addictive, and like most addictions it will only hurt you in the long run if you let it consume you.
While watching this, I thought "Wow, how cool, a game about all the nice little things." and that made me realize...why do I find such charm in a virtual event like watching TV with Mae's dad, something that's considered normal and something people might actively avoid in reality? I think a lot of the charm that you speak of yields an irony that people often have the option to do these things and don't want to, or won't get anything out of, so we turn to these scripted events that are meant to go well to give us these different feelings..and that bothers me a bit.
I know this reply is reaaally late, but I only finished the game recently and then went back to this analysis to see what you thought of it. Great one as always and jives really well with my own ideas and takes on the game. One aspect I have a different take on though, is the presence of the eldritch god. I don't believe the god actually exists, but is a hallucination taken to extremes by groupthink.
Why do I think that? Well, I remember this old news article that you could read in the library which mentioned that the miners came across a certain type of fungus that caused hallucinations if you breath in their fumes. I honestly think that is the entire source of the cult. A group of distraught miners collectively hallucinating about an eldritch god that commands them to make sacrifices in order to safe their livelihoods. So in the end, there is no supernatural element in play at all in this game.
I'm glad this title turned out well, it was a good while in the making!
This is the best analysis, exactly what I was looking for to explain how the game made me feel. Nice!!
Damn, i wish i was smart enough to undertsand any of this. I understood some parts but you explained it vastly better
Reminder it's up to interpretation if the lovecraftian being exists.
There's evidence for both theories.
Really great analysis, even after playing it twice and mostly getting it you still highlighted connections I didn't see. Great job!
Awesome, awesome video, but maan I feel dumb for not noticing how all those threads linked together. This game is so much more complex than it initially let on, very excited to do another playthrough and experience all the Bea events.
It's great to see you back. Your my favorite youtuber and I always get excited when ever I see an upload from you.
I think the monster being real or a metaphor for depression/dissociation is supposed to be vague so the player can choose which one it is, depending on who they are and which suits their interpretation of the story best. The weirdest part to me is the Janitor though. No mention of him or his strange powers. He's just there.
night in the woods is my favourite coming of age story of all time. i played through it twice in very quick succession because of the impact it left on me.
The nostalgia death cult reminded me of The World's End, but even more sinister. Brilliant game, and really hit home for me, the most ever since was Depression Quest. Aimless career, financial issues, dead end town, depression. Very relevant and a nice companion with Kentucky Route Zero which also puts a laser focus on small towns, working class, and post-industrial economic anxiety.
Lovely video for a lovely game. I'm not at the end yet (I think I might actually be better off for having been spoiled), but I love this for the mood and atmosphere, the tone and themes. It's definitely one of my favourites of all the projects I've supported on Kickstarter, and I've supported a lot of 'em.
Good god, this games animation and art design is gorgeous.
I wouldn't mind a part 2 of this one.
I interpreted the being in the mine differently. I’m my view, it was just as disinterested in the town as the one Mae spoke with, but the townspeople were so desperate for a solution to the town’s decline that they invented a narrative of its promises and threats
new favorite channel. just saw your beginners guide video and im soooooooo glad i found your channel!
I can’t really relate to lots of night in the woods, yet it still means a lot to me. I don’t even know how to explain it.
Every time I see this game it tugs at my hearts strings.
i looked at mae and thought to myself "ohh god it's you in video game form"
Thanks for covering this, Campster. This is my GOTY 2017.
Loved the discussion of structure, and the amazing details about the characters in different ways. Completely disagree with you about Mae tho, explaining her problems as all a result of the elder god seems really odd, especially when the game had a heavy focus on mental illness in it's themes and Mae has a long past with this. Kinda rubbed me the wrong way, honestly. The game also keeps everything with the god super vague? Like something supernatural probably exists in the game, but it never reveals what, and is super cagey about confirming/denying things.
Loved the ending tho, so many details about the game make me happy and could talk about forever.
I think it is a case of "maybe magic maybe mundane", with Mae's perspective being too twisted for us to have a clear answer. Mae might have an ancient demon god corroding her brain... or just have dissociative disorder and had confirmation bias built hallucinations where on the mines, after all it is said somewhere the water was poisonous and expelled hallucigenic fumes
Gregg rulz ok
I love the "obligatory disclosure" at the end.
This video provides a ton of insight into myself. THANK YOU AND AMAZING
OK one thing I really loved were the four musicians that appeared in the dreams and their back story.
Can we maybe get another video expanding on what else you liked or did not like? cause it helps me see what i missed on my play through or cool connections i did not make like with the alcohol
It's nice to have it put out so plainly. Once thing that tarnished my love of the experience a bit was all the little hints that the narrative was unreliable
As someone from the midwest i LOVE the idea of the economy essentially being an eldritch god that the people who live here dont understand but desperately try to appease it by making numerous sacrifices including the future of their own children.
Just for the one percent chance (or zero really) that the eldritch economy will shine a benevolent light back upon the town.
If youve ever lived in a dying town it will really hit home and is a genius metaphor.
I really love future narratives that ties lovecraftian monsters to systemic issues like the economy, racism, law enforcement, legal system, prison system, assault culture etc etc.
Wow I have seen this game referenced a lot but didn't realize just how much it speaks to something I've lived. Living in the Midwest you live in the ruins of a previously bustling society, nearly everyone I went to school with left for greener pastures.
I for the longest time felt that I lived in a rotten place that was literally a tomb, meant to sap my will to live away.
But as I've gotten older I have begun to love this place. The people here are genuine, they are nice, and the place is kinda idyllic. Though many of the things about it being ruins still apply it's also so much more. And though my plan is to move away from here, I will still miss many of the nice souls that inhabit this place.
It's always heartwarming to see something which clearly comes from a very similar place.
Now that I've played the game myself (twice) I can finally watch this. And it was so good.
Night in the woods has been better for my mental health than professional counselling. I think about it in my darkest moments, and when I remember the "I want it to hurt when I lose" scene, I start to feel my passion returning. It's so powerful for me - to desire any emotion and to latch on to it, to recognize that things can be good, to focus on the small beautiful moments in life. I read Mae's mental illness as dispassionate empty nihilistic depression, and I relate hard to it - Why care about anything? Nothing matters, nothing is real, it's all shapes/atoms/cells/particles in a random sea of other shit, it ultimately has no meaning. But the game doesn't give in to that nihilism - the important thing is your relationships with people, and the poignant moments that come from that. Life can be beautiful, and that scares me into acting more than anything else.
I think the end is also meant to be sort of vague, so it's hard to tell if Mae's mental health problems are actually their own thing, or the effect of the black goat. Which, I sort of like? because if it wasn't, it seems like the cult would have no real purpose there. But if it was, the parts about her mental health wouldn't seem as genuine, at least to me
This game really reminds me of Seconds by Bryan Lee O'malley. Especially the idea of a coming of age story that is mixed with supernatural elements and accepting the past to move into the future.
Your videos are always amazing!
I'm really fucking late on this but GOD dude, I would LOVE if you made a sequel to this analysis!! I've to hear your interpretation. As always, wonderful job:)
Thank you very much for making this video. It helped me clarify how I felt about and now I can better put it into words. Good analysation, clear opinions, and a good extra rant at the end.
GREGG RULZ, OK
The sound of silence fits this game so perfectly.