The ram timings were not talked about in this video, but they are very important. When the DDR5 was underclocked at 3600, the timings were probably still CL36 or something around that. DDR4 3600 is usually CL 14, 16 or 18. Much tighter. This explains why the FPS were worse on the DDR5 3600 . The timings should have been discussed or at least given so we could have a better idea how they affect the results.
Agreed, for workload purposes the higher frequency can be an advantage but for gaming the Cas Latency is frequently overlooked. A CL36 with a 5600MHz DDR5 kit has a responce time of about 12.86 nanoseconds and a CL16 3600MHz DDR4 kit has roughly an 8.89 nanosecond responce time. Bigger numbers doesn't always mean better. For those who want to work out their RAM responce time it's CL multiplied by 2000 divided by the frequency to give an answer in nanoseconds.
16GB DDR4 is enough for most people if they're just gaming, get a two 8GB stick kit and if you need more buy the same kit again later to fill the remaining two slots. VRAM is really dependant on the card it's paired with you'd be better served to look at benchmarks for various GPU's in your budget and decide based on that.
Should I upgrade with a Z690 ddr5 for a i5 12600k/13600k or stay with the ddr4 version instead? Currently have a 1080p 144hz monitor and a 3060ti with i5 10400. I could get B660 motherboard but what do you think?
@@FenderJaguar66 why is not worth? In Deutschland g. skill tridentZ 2x16 3600 cl16 is 180€ and g skill tridentZ5 2x16 6000 cl 36 is 200€. I buy 7600x 290€, b650 tomahawk 270€ and gskill 6000 cl36 200€ that all cost 760€, compare that 5800x3d cost 400€ and better MBO min 200€ that be min 600€, difference is only 160€, but with AM5 platform i have chance to upgrade.
This is a small sample of games. You could find games where DDR5 has a clear win like Spider-Man Remastered or Hitman 3. But yes, pre-fetch and caching mechanics on modern CPUs are so good that RAM is less of a concern. But DDR5 could make a bigger difference on a 13600K which has less cache than the 13700K. Last thing; you are running typical games but not with a typical system. People that buy a 13700K with a 4090 will not cheap out on RAM.
this video mas made 7 month ago from the time of commenting. right now for higher speeds (4800mhz and above) ddr5 is the same price or cheaper. and well super cheap ddr5 for lower speeds isnt a thing
"it's all about value" after testing on a 4090 and ignoring the GPU cost in the £/frame calculations. If someone spends £1800 on a GPU, they're spending £450+ on the MB and CPU, and £100+ on the RAM. If spending an extra £100 on RAM nets even a 5% FPS increase, compared to the 4% price increase, that's Better value for money.
Videos like this are SUPER helpful to those trying to navigate the "new and shiny" products and wondering if you are really getting a performance uplift compared to "older/previous generation" products that are cheaper! Thank you good sir
not exactly helpful. as one commenter above already stated: The ram timings were not talked about in this video, but they are very important. When the DDR5 was underclocked at 3600, the timings were probably still CL36 or something around that. DDR4 3600 is usually CL 14, 16 or 18. Much tighter. This explains why the FPS were worse on the DDR5 3600 . The timings should have been discussed or at least given so we could have a better idea how they affect the results.
@@robertanthonybermudez5545 you are arguing for the sake of small percentages in performance, the vast majority of users simply won't be able to tell a difference.
@@colinhoover5153 if its not clear for you, I am pointing out the uncertainties in the TESTING METHOD. never I have mentioned any percentages significant or not.
@@robertanthonybermudez5545 did you tune into PC Centric and expect to see Steve or perhaps Tech Notice giving a full in depth breakdown of DDR5 vs DDR4? You may give beef for his "testing methods" but perhaps a change of expectation is needed here
@@colinhoover5153 of course! testing methods are standardized for the very reason of reliability. whoever youtuber uploads a content comparing performances, wether that be a small youtuber or big channels like LTT, i expect the same standard.
Lol dude first of all the reason your having worse performance with ddr5 at lower clock speeds is because ddr5 has much higher timings. Also why would you do 4K benchmarks with upscaling? Your basically just rendering at 1440p internally anyways so it’s not a real 4K benchmark.
This was almost a perfectly executed test. I just wished that both kits were the same size and not 16g vs 32g. The video had the potential to be perfect but the idea that the ram kits aren't the same same size , I did appreciate that you tested the ddr5 at 3600mhz. I figure if or when ddr5 is more mainstream and 5200-6000 kits with better timings are a thing only then will there be an substantial increase over 3600 ddr4.
If you only changed the memory speed on the DDR5 when testing the lower speeds, then the sloppier timings of DDR5 can massively hold it back, it really needs the higher speed to help counter it’s slower timings. I’ve found that tightening timings usually tends to yield a better performance gain than a faster speed when OC’ing RAM
Punctual reply here, I imagine it depends on what you're doing. Ddr4 can act on data faster, DDR5 can act on more data at once. If you're not moving large chunks in and out of memory constantly, ddr4 is equal to or better than DDR5. If one kit can move up to 1GB of data and the process takes 1 seconds, and another moves up to 10GB but it takes 2 seconds for the process, then the second kit obviously moves more data. But if the largest transfer is only ever 1MB, the first kit is completing the task twice as fast. Thats the difference between latency and clock speed. Clock is like your "time budget" , how many things it can do in one second, and latency is how much of that budget it costs to perform a given command. People look at the max bandwidth alone and conclude DDR5 is just better by default, but if you're doing anything other than benchmarks, you're wasting money most of the time. Games primarily use the VRAM for everything, if you run out of it and it hits the system ram, it doesn't matter how fast your ram or it's bandwidth, it's gonna be slower than aids. Ideally in that scenario you'd want as little data xfer as possible with the best access times possible. I think, I might be making this all up, am I making it up? Nah...id never do that...come on what do you take me for? Come on, I'm not that kinda guy come on ..
@@brovid-19 I understand your point, but if you’re making direct comparisons between ram kits and only altering the speeds without a care about timings then you will lose performance and it can directly impact frame rates - this comment is from over a year ago though so I can’t remember exactly why I left it or what happened lmao
I actually find it refreshing how you make it clear you're not going to test at 1080P because of the GPU you're using, similar with the max settings in SOTTR. People focus too much on arbitrary numbers especially when it comes to things like DDR5 and then tend to give bad advice on the back of that. I like how your benchmarks are relative to what people are actually going to be running on a daily basis.
I agree, but I think it's more realistic that somebody would run either 1080p or 4k as a 4k monitors scales down to that. With 1440p you're kinda stuck there. So for real demanding games or games where refresh really matters you might super sample from 1080 with ultra everything and RT on (or is that just me?!) Generally today's 1440p card is tomorrows 1080p ultra card and so on.
For something as essential as RAM, I'm amazed so few channels have covered this subject as well as this, for ordinary chaps deciding which way to swing. Also, your vid on the relative performance of DDR4 at different MHz speeds is essential viewing if going DDR4. Ta muchly.
This is exactly why I haven't upgraded my RAM to DDR5 yet. No need. Marginal (at best) gains for more price. The only logical reason for buying DDR5 right now is if you are currently building a "future proof" rig that you plan on keeping for many years to come. Otherwise, if you are in my boat, where upgrading is the option, then it just isn't worth it. Not yet anyway. One day that extra speed will be worth it though.
I completely agree with your future proofing comment cause I'm in the situation where I need to future proof my incoming PC, as my older one is DDR3. I agree with you on specifically your 'one day' comment. Which is correct, at some point (like it happened with DDR2vsDDR3 and DDR3vsDDR4) the speeds and capabilities of DDR5 are going to exceed anything DDR4 can do. Probably a few gens from now. So, you're right, if you are in your position, hold back and then when you actually see it surpassing DDR4 speeds permanently, then you can go for it.
Depends on your current pc. For people like me who are still on ddr3, it makes sense to go straight to ddr5 than ddr4 seeing as this is the last generation of ddr4:)
@@xyr3s Yes, but that is kinda what I was getting at. Someone coming from DDR3 is basically building a whole new rig at this point. At least the core MOBO components, that is. So yes, I agree it depends on the specific PC. I am just saying that for me personally, it makes no sense at the moment. DDR5 isn't going to give me any substantial gains over what I have. One day it will though, so I am holding out. Those, like you, that are moving up generations and having to make a huge change with core components, you might as well go straight to DDR5 to future proof your system. So we are basically saying the same thing, just in different ways.
@@BarbarianAncestry Definitely. I am thinking that once 14th or even 15th gen Intel chips drop, I will then look at upgrading my system. At that point, DDR5 will be the standard, so it would make sense for me personally. Right now I am going to ride out my 11700k with DDR4 because it does the perfectly well. Probably will take this time to focus on upgrading to a 40 series GPU at some point (waiting to see if the 4070 will be a value buy or if I should wait until a 4080 gets more reasonably priced), even though my 3070 has served me well. Then when the time comes, I will be ready to make the jump to DDR5 with a new Mobo, CPU, SSD, etc. But everything is tentative. I am more in the mindset of upgrading when I need to, not when I want to. We will see though. I get the "itch" to buy parts at the most random times lol
I agree i really thought ddr5 would have a more of a difference to be honest, however i'm actually really releived about it. I'm running a basic set up witha asus strix 1080ti 11gb 3600mhz ddr4 ram on a old asus strix 6th gen board with a i7 6700k cpu and was really considering a expensive leap to ddr5 ram motherboard cpu & gpu upgrade until I watched this. ddr4 seems to be the way to go which is a lot easier on the wallet to say the least lol. Awesome content by the way man appreciate the solid intel on what gamers should or shouldn't buy this content saved my wallet big time!
It's really simple. DDR5 is in the exact same stage and DDR4 was and DDR3 etc etc. In the beginning it's a new, better product BUT the timings are nearly 3-4x higher. The best of the best DDR4 (out of the box w/o manual OC's) is 4000mhz CL14 compared to say G. Skill 6400mhz CL32 - that's the lowest/quickest DDR5 I've seen. I'm likely still going to wait. I have a Z690 DDR4 board with 64gb of 4000mhz CL14 and the price to performance just isn't there. The only situations where it would make sense would be if you are actually building a brand new computer or you're doing something that actually utilizes ram way more than gaming. Current DDR5 prices have dropped a fair bit so now is the time to def buy it but I'm still not blown away why the latencies. $180-190 for 6000mhz 36 / 38 latency. Meh. Then add on another $300-500 for a decent DDR5 mobo.
Here's my situation, I need a new AM4 or AM5 machine in the next 4 months, a pc that's to hopefully last me a good 4+ years. should I go AM5 and DDR5 anyway in case of future developments? or save myself £200 now and get a non-upgrade-able system.
am5 obviously. Dont invest in something that is gonna be outdated in a few years, i currently have an am4 and im not planning on upgrading until i see a double fps increase in my cpu and gpu and ram so
If you plan on upgrading it in 5+ years the next ram improvements would probably be around 2028 so I would recommend sticking with ddr4 and skipping ddr5 completely until the next biggest changes to the pc market. If you plan on upgrading at some point in the next 4-5 years than AM5 would be better.
Would you consider testing these components for different applications, like Premier Pro, Lightroom, Photoshop etc? Those are supposedly very RAM dependent
@@latlanticcityphil yes... We are talking about gaming in this video.. which is why I asked for a video concerning content creation... What's the point you're trying to make lmao
I can tell a huge difference especially multitasking in-between Adobe software, like photoshop and premiere pro. It works so much more seamlessly compared to my older DDR4 sticks and having a few extra tabs open on chrome wont hurt me then either :)
I get there's a difference between 60fps and 144fps but when these cards are averaging into the 200's you just got to feel like there's no point worrying about the numbers by that point.
I bought a new PC last week: an i5-13600KF with 32 GB of DDR4 3600 MHz memory and an ASUS Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4 motherboard. I did consider DDR5 memory but the price plus more expensive motherboards pushed me towards DDR4 which I think was a good choice after watching numerous DDR4 vs DDR5 comparison videos on TH-cam. I play games at 1440p with maxed out settings and RT, if available, on a RTX 3080 so I feel I have a well-balanced system for what it cost me. Yes, I could have future-proofed it by investing in DDR5 now but, honestly, by the time I next upgrade my PC, DDR6 or DDR7 will be around as my previous PC (i7-4770K with 16 GB DDR3 1600 memory) last me almost 10 years!
Did pretty much the same and more than happy as I reused my DDR4 3600 RAM so saved a fair bit on the motherboard CPU upgrade. Luckily I bought the Strix-D4 as well with the cashback offer from ASUS so even more savings...
Future proofing is a myth. Coming from a PC builder for 20+ years, just buy what you need now, and use that saved money on better parts. By the time you actually need to upgrade, there will be many more choices for a much better price. There is absolutely no reason to buy parts that you don't need and can't take advantage of now, just to bet that you will be ok with those said parts in the future. In a way, you are actually limiting yourself from the many options you can have in the future, and that's the only "future-proof" you'll get.
I went 13600k and DDR5 because I run servers while gaming, I can definately tell a huge difference from DDR4, but that's just me most people wouldnt notice anything at all. It does make me comfortable though spending that money on DDR5 because personally I think it's worth it, and while there's no thing such as future proofing, I am quite confident I will be able to use my ram sticks in a few years time without feeling held back because of my motherboard choice, like I did with my previous RAM sticks which had 2666MHz.. So a huge upgrade.. I also do work with my PC, so things such as Photoshop work so much more cleanly. But just for gaming obviously you should wait to buy DDR5 thats what I'd say.
@@DubboU i get what your saying but using a little more then you need on lets say a graphic card maybe mean that in 1 or 2 years will be very playable and enjoyable, instead of having to buy a new graphics card just because you went from CSGO which can be played on anything to a card that has to run elden ring or God of War. Personally i bought a 2080 in 2018 and used 100$ extra as opposed to a 2070, and im very happy with the decision even though i didnt really need the 2080 until cyberpunk came out. "future proofing" is most likely going from 1700 to 1900 or 2000 not going from a 700 build to a 3000 dollar build in my experience.
This is interesting... I upgraded my processor from an i7 8700K to a i9 13900KS so I practically had to upgrade everything anyways. Got the ASUS ROG Maximus Hero z790 mobo so I'm forced to get DDR5 now. Kinda went stupid with my build and got the 128GB of Corsair Vengeance 5600 MHz RAM while running a RTX 3090 which I'm sure my GPU is going to bottleneck my new system for now. I still don't regret it though, as I'm sure my system is major future proof except the GPU.
What about games that actually use ram? Not just basic selection of mainstream games. But games that do a lot of generating, like: teardown, 7 days to die or minecraft.
I play warzone almost exclusively with a 7950x and a 4090. According to my pc I’m using 33 of 64 gigs of my ddr5 ram at 6000 mhz. I get consistent 250-300 fps on very high 2k settings. My Alienware monitors only do 240hz of 2k though.
thanks for posting this im feeling a bit better now about going with my 32gb of 6000mhz ddr5, because after this video and reading alot of the comments i was a bit unsure
Ddr5 is actually pretty clutch, I got a 16gb stick of it for like $70ish and it’s much better than my original 16gb ddr4 kit on my old mobo that was $120
The fact you did not mention the MHz or the CL tell me you bought the shittiest DDR5 on the market that is probably giving you worse FPS than a normal DDR4 ram stick.
Built My 12th Gen Rig in February 2022 (Almost A Year Old Now) I Picked DDR4. My Motherboard Supports Up-To 5333Mhz RAM DDR4 lol So Why The FFFF Do I Need DDR5? Im Str8
@@Safetytrousers Yet.... AMD has said they are continuing to support the AM4 platform for a while longer so we may see more versions of x3D chips/refreshes and even zen 4 which they originally planned so we might get more improved CPUs for the platform at some point
@@exoticspeedefy7916 Chances are continued support means BIOS and chipset updates, and continuation of existing CPUs. AMD do want sales of AM5 and what better way to boost that than by only making new x3d chips for AM5.
i actually thought my 14500 was bottlenecking my 3090 in 1440p on warzone 2, i fixed it, i went from 131fps in 1440p ultra to 300fps in 1080p and around 200fps more or less with 99% gpu usage locked no the 14th gen chips dont bottleneck the 3090 or 6950 xt
Smooth brains complain about cl not being mentioned like it matters... I'm over here like ram clock speed is measured in megatransfers not megahertz...
@@B.D.E. ?? Well, as someone who already built a ddr5 system and a ddr4 system. At 1440p, at best, i saw 5% FPS difference. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look at HUB benchmarks, to Linus, to Gamernexsus, to Jay2cents. Pretty much all of them show there is barely any difference between the two at 1440p, and especially at 4k. Not sure where you're getting your source from? Looks like i am still sticking to being "glad".
God, you rambled so much, it’s always so obvious when certain TH-camrs care more about “Ad Sense”. Then they wonder why their channels drop off and die so fast.
I've waited and waited for DDR5 and finally last year I built a new system with DDR5 4800 and am so disappointed. Hype, hype, hype. Should have not waited for DDR5 and built a new system earlier with DDR4. Now DRR5 has become much faster and I am stuck with Ram and a mobo slower than the fastest DDR4. I feel so stupid, I paid more for slower newer memory listening to hype on the net and in PC articles all anticipating much better performance. My motherboard is limited now to 4800 DDR5. Could someone please tell me if I later switch to faster DDR5 memory will I at least get the benefit of lower latency? Newer memory is faster and has much lower latencies.
What abot the influence of Latencies, is ther a differnce between a DDR4 3600-C18 and a 3600-C16 and a 3600-C14 what compaired to DDR4-4000-C14 or a DDR4-4266-C16 or a DDR4-4400-C18 .... or a DDR4-5333-C20, for me as Ryzen 5000 series user speeds above 4000 are not of interest as getting penalties latest there, and latencies are more important on intel perhaps another story.
its only if you buy new cpu newest gen, Like amd for cpu to work at its max speed perfection you need 6000 ddr5 speed fropm amd manuals very simple, But for games wont need full speed of ddr4, but propgrams rendering, not gaming programs will need all its speed.
Same old story, lol. When DDR 4 first came out it was double the price for little to no performance uplift (sometimes worse performance). Give it another generation or 2 and we'll start seeing some big separation in numbers... For i-13000 series or R-7000 series? Not worth it unless you just wanna flex.
People probably going to call me crazy for this, but for my build I'm thinking: RTX 4090 I5-13600k El Cheapo MSI PRO B660M-A CEC WIFI Motherboard 16 GB DDR4 3600 Mhz RAM in 2x8 To aim for 4K 120 FPS without bothering with overclocking
Personally, I think if you buy ddr4 then you're wasting money. Just because ddr4 is phasing out now and ddr5 is just starting. I built a new pc in August and then built another one in October and gave the other one to my sister. The reason why I built 2 is the first one was my first pc build and the second is a new am5 platform. I honestly don't understand why someone would build a new pc on am4 platform now. People always make the argument that it's cheaper but technically you're throwing your money away just like I did. If you want to build cheaper go intel but even that is on it's last year. Hopefully with am5 I will be good for a few years
ram frequancy doesnt matter in the slightest for gaming its all about latency and to some extent bandwidth with a soft cap of 60k gbp's tunning a ddr4 kit of samsung b die at 3600 to 14-14-14-28 trfc 280 and trefi 66k will litterly destroy all ddr5 xmp kits in gaming latency is the most important thing. aidia 64 or intel latency memory checker should be in the 45ns range there is no point at all in testing frequency as 7200 cl60 ram would get destroyed by 3200 cl12
Bro just a doubt can I use ddr5 ram in laptop but it supports and came with ddr4 3200mhz one can I use ddr 5 I mean I’m new to my laptop so I have no idea can anyone help me out in this ?
No you are not. My DDR5 32 gb kit cost the same as my old DDR4 32GB Kit. Its almost the same price if you dont go premium and you get more performance and are future proof
Hello there, Can anyone help me decide on a motherboard for a 13600K? I haven't build a PC in like 15 years, so I'm seriously outdated 😅 After watching this video I think I'll go for DDR4 ❤ Thanks in advance 🎉
I went out of my way to get a DDR4 computer rather than DDR5. I seem to recall a similar issue with DDR3 or maybe when DDR4 first came out. It was ages ago.
Fan fact: if you mixed ddr5 with ddr4 you get ddr9
Why not ddr20?
If you add a stick ddr3 to you get ddr12
Facts tho
🤯
DDR 4.5?
The ram timings were not talked about in this video, but they are very important. When the DDR5 was underclocked at 3600, the timings were probably still CL36 or something around that. DDR4 3600 is usually CL 14, 16 or 18. Much tighter. This explains why the FPS were worse on the DDR5 3600 . The timings should have been discussed or at least given so we could have a better idea how they affect the results.
also on ddr4 single or dual rank was not mentioned
Exactly same toughts here. I would like to see how tight timings you can get ddr5 with 3600mhz.
Agreed, for workload purposes the higher frequency can be an advantage but for gaming the Cas Latency is frequently overlooked. A CL36 with a 5600MHz DDR5 kit has a responce time of about 12.86 nanoseconds and a CL16 3600MHz DDR4 kit has roughly an 8.89 nanosecond responce time. Bigger numbers doesn't always mean better. For those who want to work out their RAM responce time it's CL multiplied by 2000 divided by the frequency to give an answer in nanoseconds.
Hi mate think u can help me with a pc build ?
apparantly this youtuber is not pro enough
A really great video thank you :)
whit a gigabyte 4070 super 64 gb ram ddr4 is it wort upgrading to ddr5 ?
ok 16gb ddr4 vs 32gb everyone say 16gb is more than enuff but what bout now in 2022/23 edit also what about 8gb vram
16GB DDR4 is enough for most people if they're just gaming, get a two 8GB stick kit and if you need more buy the same kit again later to fill the remaining two slots.
VRAM is really dependant on the card it's paired with you'd be better served to look at benchmarks for various GPU's in your budget and decide based on that.
Should I upgrade with a Z690 ddr5 for a i5 12600k/13600k or stay with the ddr4 version instead? Currently have a 1080p 144hz monitor and a 3060ti with i5 10400. I could get B660 motherboard but what do you think?
Stick to DDR4, DD5 is too expensive and not worth it yet
@@FenderJaguar66 thanks for this!
@@FenderJaguar66 why is not worth? In Deutschland g. skill tridentZ 2x16 3600 cl16 is 180€ and g skill tridentZ5 2x16 6000 cl 36 is 200€. I buy 7600x 290€, b650 tomahawk 270€ and gskill 6000 cl36 200€ that all cost 760€, compare that 5800x3d cost 400€ and better MBO min 200€ that be min 600€, difference is only 160€, but with AM5 platform i have chance to upgrade.
@@antoniomautner because it doesn't really perform better than dd4 or you won't really notice big difference at all
This is a small sample of games. You could find games where DDR5 has a clear win like Spider-Man Remastered or Hitman 3.
But yes, pre-fetch and caching mechanics on modern CPUs are so good that RAM is less of a concern. But DDR5 could make a bigger difference on a 13600K which has less cache than the 13700K. Last thing; you are running typical games but not with a typical system. People that buy a 13700K with a 4090 will not cheap out on RAM.
Laughing at the exclamation of 10% improvement;
this video mas made 7 month ago from the time of commenting. right now for higher speeds (4800mhz and above) ddr5 is the same price or cheaper. and well super cheap ddr5 for lower speeds isnt a thing
"it's all about value" after testing on a 4090 and ignoring the GPU cost in the £/frame calculations.
If someone spends £1800 on a GPU, they're spending £450+ on the MB and CPU, and £100+ on the RAM. If spending an extra £100 on RAM nets even a 5% FPS increase, compared to the 4% price increase, that's Better value for money.
Videos like this are SUPER helpful to those trying to navigate the "new and shiny" products and wondering if you are really getting a performance uplift compared to "older/previous generation" products that are cheaper! Thank you good sir
not exactly helpful.
as one commenter above already stated: The ram timings were not talked about in this video, but they are very important. When the DDR5 was underclocked at 3600, the timings were probably still CL36 or something around that. DDR4 3600 is usually CL 14, 16 or 18. Much tighter. This explains why the FPS were worse on the DDR5 3600 . The timings should have been discussed or at least given so we could have a better idea how they affect the results.
@@robertanthonybermudez5545 you are arguing for the sake of small percentages in performance, the vast majority of users simply won't be able to tell a difference.
@@colinhoover5153 if its not clear for you, I am pointing out the uncertainties in the TESTING METHOD. never I have mentioned any percentages significant or not.
@@robertanthonybermudez5545 did you tune into PC Centric and expect to see Steve or perhaps Tech Notice giving a full in depth breakdown of DDR5 vs DDR4? You may give beef for his "testing methods" but perhaps a change of expectation is needed here
@@colinhoover5153 of course! testing methods are standardized for the very reason of reliability. whoever youtuber uploads a content comparing performances, wether that be a small youtuber or big channels like LTT, i expect the same standard.
Lol dude first of all the reason your having worse performance with ddr5 at lower clock speeds is because ddr5 has much higher timings. Also why would you do 4K benchmarks with upscaling? Your basically just rendering at 1440p internally anyways so it’s not a real 4K benchmark.
Kinda shocking that DDR5 3600 is way slower than DDR4 3600
Not really, they didn't change the timings in this video, so that's why. Kinda amateurish tbh.
ddr4 vs ddr5 there is still no difference.
It's a waste of money. That's why the system I just built has ddr4 3600 despite all the geniuses shit talking on PC pages
This was almost a perfectly executed test. I just wished that both kits were the same size and not 16g vs 32g. The video had the potential to be perfect but the idea that the ram kits aren't the same same size , I did appreciate that you tested the ddr5 at 3600mhz. I figure if or when ddr5 is more mainstream and 5200-6000 kits with better timings are a thing only then will there be an substantial increase over 3600 ddr4.
Bro you make me nervous,
youre moving too much, fast like a squirrel,
ADHS?
If you only changed the memory speed on the DDR5 when testing the lower speeds, then the sloppier timings of DDR5 can massively hold it back, it really needs the higher speed to help counter it’s slower timings. I’ve found that tightening timings usually tends to yield a better performance gain than a faster speed when OC’ing RAM
Exactly!
Punctual reply here, I imagine it depends on what you're doing. Ddr4 can act on data faster, DDR5 can act on more data at once. If you're not moving large chunks in and out of memory constantly, ddr4 is equal to or better than DDR5.
If one kit can move up to 1GB of data and the process takes 1 seconds, and another moves up to 10GB but it takes 2 seconds for the process, then the second kit obviously moves more data. But if the largest transfer is only ever 1MB, the first kit is completing the task twice as fast.
Thats the difference between latency and clock speed. Clock is like your "time budget" , how many things it can do in one second, and latency is how much of that budget it costs to perform a given command.
People look at the max bandwidth alone and conclude DDR5 is just better by default, but if you're doing anything other than benchmarks, you're wasting money most of the time.
Games primarily use the VRAM for everything, if you run out of it and it hits the system ram, it doesn't matter how fast your ram or it's bandwidth, it's gonna be slower than aids. Ideally in that scenario you'd want as little data xfer as possible with the best access times possible.
I think, I might be making this all up, am I making it up? Nah...id never do that...come on what do you take me for? Come on, I'm not that kinda guy come on ..
@@brovid-19 I understand your point, but if you’re making direct comparisons between ram kits and only altering the speeds without a care about timings then you will lose performance and it can directly impact frame rates - this comment is from over a year ago though so I can’t remember exactly why I left it or what happened lmao
I actually find it refreshing how you make it clear you're not going to test at 1080P because of the GPU you're using, similar with the max settings in SOTTR. People focus too much on arbitrary numbers especially when it comes to things like DDR5 and then tend to give bad advice on the back of that. I like how your benchmarks are relative to what people are actually going to be running on a daily basis.
I agree, but I think it's more realistic that somebody would run either 1080p or 4k as a 4k monitors scales down to that. With 1440p you're kinda stuck there. So for real demanding games or games where refresh really matters you might super sample from 1080 with ultra everything and RT on (or is that just me?!)
Generally today's 1440p card is tomorrows 1080p ultra card and so on.
yeah,1080p is already past thing,1440p is new min resolution on 2023
80% of gamers still play on 1080p, what are you talking about?
you would be insane to put ddr4 in a new system now
Long live DDR4 still the king in Gaming, performance, and price in building a killer Gaming PC, and I have 5 my self
im from india please do a review on samsung ark 55 inch curve monitor
For something as essential as RAM, I'm amazed so few channels have covered this subject as well as this, for ordinary chaps deciding which way to swing. Also, your vid on the relative performance of DDR4 at different MHz speeds is essential viewing if going DDR4. Ta muchly.
This is exactly why I haven't upgraded my RAM to DDR5 yet. No need. Marginal (at best) gains for more price. The only logical reason for buying DDR5 right now is if you are currently building a "future proof" rig that you plan on keeping for many years to come. Otherwise, if you are in my boat, where upgrading is the option, then it just isn't worth it. Not yet anyway. One day that extra speed will be worth it though.
I completely agree with your future proofing comment cause I'm in the situation where I need to future proof my incoming PC, as my older one is DDR3. I agree with you on specifically your 'one day' comment. Which is correct, at some point (like it happened with DDR2vsDDR3 and DDR3vsDDR4) the speeds and capabilities of DDR5 are going to exceed anything DDR4 can do. Probably a few gens from now. So, you're right, if you are in your position, hold back and then when you actually see it surpassing DDR4 speeds permanently, then you can go for it.
Depends on your current pc. For people like me who are still on ddr3, it makes sense to go straight to ddr5 than ddr4 seeing as this is the last generation of ddr4:)
@@xyr3s Yes, but that is kinda what I was getting at. Someone coming from DDR3 is basically building a whole new rig at this point. At least the core MOBO components, that is. So yes, I agree it depends on the specific PC. I am just saying that for me personally, it makes no sense at the moment. DDR5 isn't going to give me any substantial gains over what I have. One day it will though, so I am holding out. Those, like you, that are moving up generations and having to make a huge change with core components, you might as well go straight to DDR5 to future proof your system. So we are basically saying the same thing, just in different ways.
@@BarbarianAncestry Definitely. I am thinking that once 14th or even 15th gen Intel chips drop, I will then look at upgrading my system. At that point, DDR5 will be the standard, so it would make sense for me personally. Right now I am going to ride out my 11700k with DDR4 because it does the perfectly well. Probably will take this time to focus on upgrading to a 40 series GPU at some point (waiting to see if the 4070 will be a value buy or if I should wait until a 4080 gets more reasonably priced), even though my 3070 has served me well. Then when the time comes, I will be ready to make the jump to DDR5 with a new Mobo, CPU, SSD, etc. But everything is tentative. I am more in the mindset of upgrading when I need to, not when I want to. We will see though. I get the "itch" to buy parts at the most random times lol
@@lttlejordan23 :)
I will wait until ddr5 becomes cheaper as it’s really not worth the money for performance currently. Great video as always.
I agree i really thought ddr5 would have a more of a difference to be honest, however i'm actually really releived about it. I'm running a basic set up witha asus strix 1080ti 11gb 3600mhz ddr4 ram on a old asus strix 6th gen board with a i7 6700k cpu and was really considering a expensive leap to ddr5 ram motherboard cpu & gpu upgrade until I watched this. ddr4 seems to be the way to go which is a lot easier on the wallet to say the least lol. Awesome content by the way man appreciate the solid intel on what gamers should or shouldn't buy this content saved my wallet big time!
but im buying 7000 series?
It's really simple. DDR5 is in the exact same stage and DDR4 was and DDR3 etc etc. In the beginning it's a new, better product BUT the timings are nearly 3-4x higher. The best of the best DDR4 (out of the box w/o manual OC's) is 4000mhz CL14 compared to say G. Skill 6400mhz CL32 - that's the lowest/quickest DDR5 I've seen. I'm likely still going to wait. I have a Z690 DDR4 board with 64gb of 4000mhz CL14 and the price to performance just isn't there. The only situations where it would make sense would be if you are actually building a brand new computer or you're doing something that actually utilizes ram way more than gaming. Current DDR5 prices have dropped a fair bit so now is the time to def buy it but I'm still not blown away why the latencies. $180-190 for 6000mhz 36 / 38 latency. Meh. Then add on another $300-500 for a decent DDR5 mobo.
Here's my situation, I need a new AM4 or AM5 machine in the next 4 months, a pc that's to hopefully last me a good 4+ years. should I go AM5 and DDR5 anyway in case of future developments? or save myself £200 now and get a non-upgrade-able system.
am5 obviously. Dont invest in something that is gonna be outdated in a few years, i currently have an am4 and im not planning on upgrading until i see a double fps increase in my cpu and gpu and ram so
If you plan on upgrading it in 5+ years the next ram improvements would probably be around 2028 so I would recommend sticking with ddr4 and skipping ddr5 completely until the next biggest changes to the pc market. If you plan on upgrading at some point in the next 4-5 years than AM5 would be better.
Would you consider testing these components for different applications, like Premier Pro, Lightroom, Photoshop etc? Those are supposedly very RAM dependent
Good question!
We are talking about gaming not for creators which is another animal in the room! GAMING
@@latlanticcityphil yes... We are talking about gaming in this video.. which is why I asked for a video concerning content creation... What's the point you're trying to make lmao
I can tell a huge difference especially multitasking in-between Adobe software, like photoshop and premiere pro. It works so much more seamlessly compared to my older DDR4 sticks and having a few extra tabs open on chrome wont hurt me then either :)
@@iggsterify this is a channel for PC gaming though. Nothing wrong with your question, just asking it in the wrong place.
I get there's a difference between 60fps and 144fps but when these cards are averaging into the 200's you just got to feel like there's no point worrying about the numbers by that point.
This is as super helpful. Just grabbed the i7-13700 with a 4070 and was literally frozen trying to decide if the ddr4 mobo was the right decision.
Was literally thinking of building that setup to. What's your fps 1440p on warzone?
Relatable
CL timings at XMP would be relevant and usefull.
I bought a new PC last week: an i5-13600KF with 32 GB of DDR4 3600 MHz memory and an ASUS Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4 motherboard. I did consider DDR5 memory but the price plus more expensive motherboards pushed me towards DDR4 which I think was a good choice after watching numerous DDR4 vs DDR5 comparison videos on TH-cam. I play games at 1440p with maxed out settings and RT, if available, on a RTX 3080 so I feel I have a well-balanced system for what it cost me. Yes, I could have future-proofed it by investing in DDR5 now but, honestly, by the time I next upgrade my PC, DDR6 or DDR7 will be around as my previous PC (i7-4770K with 16 GB DDR3 1600 memory) last me almost 10 years!
Did pretty much the same and more than happy as I reused my DDR4 3600 RAM so saved a fair bit on the motherboard CPU upgrade. Luckily I bought the Strix-D4 as well with the cashback offer from ASUS so even more savings...
Future proofing is a myth. Coming from a PC builder for 20+ years, just buy what you need now, and use that saved money on better parts. By the time you actually need to upgrade, there will be many more choices for a much better price. There is absolutely no reason to buy parts that you don't need and can't take advantage of now, just to bet that you will be ok with those said parts in the future. In a way, you are actually limiting yourself from the many options you can have in the future, and that's the only "future-proof" you'll get.
Same.
I went 13600k and DDR5 because I run servers while gaming, I can definately tell a huge difference from DDR4, but that's just me most people wouldnt notice anything at all. It does make me comfortable though spending that money on DDR5 because personally I think it's worth it, and while there's no thing such as future proofing, I am quite confident I will be able to use my ram sticks in a few years time without feeling held back because of my motherboard choice, like I did with my previous RAM sticks which had 2666MHz.. So a huge upgrade..
I also do work with my PC, so things such as Photoshop work so much more cleanly. But just for gaming obviously you should wait to buy DDR5 thats what I'd say.
@@DubboU i get what your saying but using a little more then you need on lets say a graphic card maybe mean that in 1 or 2 years will be very playable and enjoyable, instead of having to buy a new graphics card just because you went from CSGO which can be played on anything to a card that has to run elden ring or God of War. Personally i bought a 2080 in 2018 and used 100$ extra as opposed to a 2070, and im very happy with the decision even though i didnt really need the 2080 until cyberpunk came out. "future proofing" is most likely going from 1700 to 1900 or 2000 not going from a 700 build to a 3000 dollar build in my experience.
This is interesting... I upgraded my processor from an i7 8700K to a i9 13900KS so I practically had to upgrade everything anyways. Got the ASUS ROG Maximus Hero z790 mobo so I'm forced to get DDR5 now. Kinda went stupid with my build and got the 128GB of Corsair Vengeance 5600 MHz RAM while running a RTX 3090 which I'm sure my GPU is going to bottleneck my new system for now. I still don't regret it though, as I'm sure my system is major future proof except the GPU.
What about games that actually use ram? Not just basic selection of mainstream games. But games that do a lot of generating, like: teardown, 7 days to die or minecraft.
I play warzone almost exclusively with a 7950x and a 4090. According to my pc I’m using 33 of 64 gigs of my ddr5 ram at 6000 mhz. I get consistent 250-300 fps on very high 2k settings. My Alienware monitors only do 240hz of 2k though.
thanks for posting this im feeling a bit better now about going with my 32gb of 6000mhz ddr5, because after this video and reading alot of the comments i was a bit unsure
Ddr5 is actually pretty clutch, I got a 16gb stick of it for like $70ish and it’s much better than my original 16gb ddr4 kit on my old mobo that was $120
Then again I have a 3090
The fact you did not mention the MHz or the CL tell me you bought the shittiest DDR5 on the market that is probably giving you worse FPS than a normal DDR4 ram stick.
for future , get ddr5 + b650 + ryzen 7600 and in 2027 you can use ryzen 10800x3d with your 2023 build
this what also i have in mind im building mine this January.
What CPU’s won’t make you bottlenecked. Are gpu’s so far ahead of cpus?
So basically you need to spend almost double the amount on a DDR5 setup to match ddr4 4000.
AM4 is dead 💀. Eventually this guy will come around and accept it
As if there's a choice. New motherboarde come with DDR5 and it's not backwards compatible, so...
DDR4 CL14 FTW
Built My 12th Gen Rig in February 2022
(Almost A Year Old Now)
I Picked DDR4. My Motherboard Supports Up-To 5333Mhz RAM DDR4 lol
So Why The FFFF Do I Need DDR5?
Im Str8
Then you have someone like me who just wants a black strix mobo so my only option is the 790 ddr5
DDR5/4 = DDR1.25
I just dropped a 5800X3D into my DDR4 rig as an upgrade instead of changing to AM5... the smart play right now.
What was the FPS uplift?
The 7000 x3d CPUs may knock it into a cocked hat (but likely at a price), and you have nowhere else to go on AM4.
@@Safetytrousers Yet.... AMD has said they are continuing to support the AM4 platform for a while longer so we may see more versions of x3D chips/refreshes and even zen 4 which they originally planned so we might get more improved CPUs for the platform at some point
@@exoticspeedefy7916 Chances are continued support means BIOS and chipset updates, and continuation of existing CPUs. AMD do want sales of AM5 and what better way to boost that than by only making new x3d chips for AM5.
same here 5800X3D happy with it
I mean unless you use that AM5 motherboard with AMD 7000 cpu's. Then you pretty much have to use DDR5.
i actually thought my 14500 was bottlenecking my 3090 in 1440p on warzone 2, i fixed it, i went from 131fps in 1440p ultra to 300fps in 1080p and around 200fps more or less with 99% gpu usage locked no the 14th gen chips dont bottleneck the 3090 or 6950 xt
Intel obviously knew this and thus offered the DDR4 option ,, Amd just kept cruising down the "Our shills can sell anything" system
Thank you. This helped me make my purchase. Ddr4 3600. Z690 motherboard
Smooth brains complain about cl not being mentioned like it matters... I'm over here like ram clock speed is measured in megatransfers not megahertz...
Got the 7700x at Micro Center with a free kit of DDR5 32gb Ram @ 6000Mhrz :] only paid for the CPU, was a deal they were having there. hehehe
I am glad i stuck with a 32gb dual channel ddr4 3600mhz kit. The money you save when compared to DDR5 is pretty much night and day.
Now watch a video from people who actually know what they are talking about. You probably won't be so glad. Especially if gaming.
@@B.D.E. ?? Well, as someone who already built a ddr5 system and a ddr4 system. At 1440p, at best, i saw 5% FPS difference. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look at HUB benchmarks, to Linus, to Gamernexsus, to Jay2cents. Pretty much all of them show there is barely any difference between the two at 1440p, and especially at 4k. Not sure where you're getting your source from? Looks like i am still sticking to being "glad".
Ddr5 is the same price now.
God, you rambled so much, it’s always so obvious when certain TH-camrs care more about “Ad Sense”. Then they wonder why their channels drop off and die so fast.
I’m wondering if it’s worth it to get a prebuilt with a ddr5 motherboard opposed to ddr4 and then something new comes out
I've waited and waited for DDR5 and finally last year I built a new system with DDR5 4800 and am so disappointed. Hype, hype, hype. Should have not waited for DDR5 and built a new system earlier with DDR4. Now DRR5 has become much faster and I am stuck with Ram and a mobo slower than the fastest DDR4. I feel so stupid, I paid more for slower newer memory listening to hype on the net and in PC articles all anticipating much better performance. My motherboard is limited now to 4800 DDR5. Could someone please tell me if I later switch to faster DDR5 memory will I at least get the benefit of lower latency? Newer memory is faster and has much lower latencies.
What abot the influence of Latencies, is ther a differnce between a DDR4 3600-C18 and a 3600-C16 and a 3600-C14 what compaired to DDR4-4000-C14 or a DDR4-4266-C16 or a DDR4-4400-C18 .... or a DDR4-5333-C20, for me as Ryzen 5000 series user speeds above 4000 are not of interest as getting penalties latest there, and latencies are more important on intel perhaps another story.
The 4090 is so insanely powerful that only the very top end cpus can actually handle it without bottle necking it
its only if you buy new cpu newest gen, Like amd for cpu to work at its max speed perfection you need 6000 ddr5 speed fropm amd manuals very simple, But for games wont need full speed of ddr4, but propgrams rendering, not gaming programs will need all its speed.
Same old story, lol. When DDR 4 first came out it was double the price for little to no performance uplift (sometimes worse performance). Give it another generation or 2 and we'll start seeing some big separation in numbers... For i-13000 series or R-7000 series? Not worth it unless you just wanna flex.
People probably going to call me crazy for this, but for my build I'm thinking:
RTX 4090
I5-13600k
El Cheapo MSI PRO B660M-A CEC WIFI Motherboard
16 GB DDR4 3600 Mhz RAM in 2x8
To aim for 4K 120 FPS without bothering with overclocking
Personally, I think if you buy ddr4 then you're wasting money. Just because ddr4 is phasing out now and ddr5 is just starting. I built a new pc in August and then built another one in October and gave the other one to my sister. The reason why I built 2 is the first one was my first pc build and the second is a new am5 platform. I honestly don't understand why someone would build a new pc on am4 platform now. People always make the argument that it's cheaper but technically you're throwing your money away just like I did. If you want to build cheaper go intel but even that is on it's last year. Hopefully with am5 I will be good for a few years
ram frequancy doesnt matter in the slightest for gaming its all about latency and to some extent bandwidth with a soft cap of 60k gbp's
tunning a ddr4 kit of samsung b die at 3600 to 14-14-14-28 trfc 280 and trefi 66k will litterly destroy all ddr5 xmp kits in gaming
latency is the most important thing. aidia 64 or intel latency memory checker should be in the 45ns range
there is no point at all in testing frequency as 7200 cl60 ram would get destroyed by 3200 cl12
my motherboard is fried should i replace it with same ddr4 or sell the CPU plus ram and upgrade to ddr5?
Bro just a doubt can I use ddr5 ram in laptop but it supports and came with ddr4 3200mhz one can I use ddr 5 I mean I’m new to my laptop so I have no idea can anyone help me out in this ?
Short version ; if you are going to build new pc or upgrade DDR5 is obvious choice and future proof, if not DDR4 is fine for gaming.
No you are not. My DDR5 32 gb kit cost the same as my old DDR4 32GB Kit. Its almost the same price if you dont go premium and you get more performance and are future proof
I bet that my dual-channels 16GB DDR4 Patriot Viper Steel @4400 Mhz ,CL 18 matches those 32GB DDR6 @6600 Mhz 😂😂
I probably have a huge bottleneck i7 processor ddr3 ram and gddr6 graphics, dell optiplex motherboard
the only time ive seen it actually matter is synthetic benchmarks... like cpu benchmarks...
Another reviewer with no knowledge of latency. 3600 MHz is not the same speed in both units.
Ahhhhhh it's good to get a xmas gift from somebody and it is a 32gb ddr5, but not worth buying it from your own pocket
call of duty warzone playing on 4K ultra details? bro, you do not understand what competitive gaming is :D
Does anyone remeber the kid show gumby from the 80s or 90s? This is the guy right here.
With current gen Intel you are wasting money buying DDR5 memory above 5600mtps in my opinion.
Please help baught kingston 7200mhz ram dosent work help I have a asus z790p d5
Well my ddr4 4300 cl 15 and 13900k destroy all them numbers… soo… where is the limit… ddr5 8200 plus
Hello there, Can anyone help me decide on a motherboard for a 13600K?
I haven't build a PC in like 15 years, so I'm seriously outdated 😅
After watching this video I think I'll go for DDR4 ❤
Thanks in advance 🎉
No mention of timings... Oh dear, may be you shouldn't review or talk about RAM?
Dual channel ddr4 (2x8gb) vs single channel ddr5 (1x16gb) please
First
i think not these games but later down the line games will start utilizing dd5 speeds.
2x the price for 10% increase?
Waste of money
Definitely a scam. It should not have been released until higher speeds are available. There is no point buying at this time at today's prices.
its Not even %10 increase LOL its more like 3-4fps lmao
this video made my 16gb 3600mhz kingston furry happy😊😊
in My opinion you pay more money for ddr5 for nothing
With DDR4 3600 CL16 you can get even more fps than CL18, so DDR5 is just %&*$)@$@$
Got 32gb ddr5 6000mhz free with my cpu for free from microcenter
Can I used any ddr4 ram on a motherboard that support it or nah I know they so many ram type?
Less drug-induced talk, show more test results instead. Would be nice.
Bottom line is if u are on ddr4, no need to go ddr5 yet. If u are on ddr 3 like me, then get ddr5 :p
In this cost of living crisis who the heck is spending £1600 on a graphics card?
Dud, you need to lay off the caffeine. I could only handle half of this video.....
Waisting money nope you can get 16gb ddr5 4800 for $37 🤡
5 minutes in and still absolutely nothing of value communicated
Basic 4090?
We have different meanings to " basic "
"Why does warzone take so long"? Bruh have you played tarkov
I went out of my way to get a DDR4 computer rather than DDR5. I seem to recall a similar issue with DDR3 or maybe when DDR4 first came out. It was ages ago.