@@AllonKirtchik Maybe he believed the "If I bring a bomb aboard my plane, the odds that there will be two bombs aboard will be infinitesimally small!" fallacy.
Was that before or after all the western nations ravaged Egypt for their own artifacts and possessions, and now charge money to go see it in London museum, colonial parasite 🦠 always pointing to others mistakes and so called backward thinking, but never acknowledging how scumbagish the west is
I believe the smoking theory combined with the oxygen leak is the most plausible explanation for this tragedy. It’s devastating to think that such a preventable mistake could lead to the loss of so many lives.
What you believe may be very sincere and justified by your knowledge, but it remains completely irrelevant, as you are not a qualified investigator entrusted with the evidence that would allow you to make a qualified judgement. So you are free to be "devastated" by something which exists only in your imagination.
@@scootermom1791 No - it is not safe to "assume" anything of the sort - nor to assume there was any leaking Oxygen whatsoever. Sadly we will probably never know more, but the assumptions put forth in this video are nothing better than armchair experts' best guesses.
@@scootermom1791 I disagree. I feel much harm is done by flippant speculation, even if it is not intentionally malicious. You say I’m being unkind, but the OP is accusing the flight crew of causing loss of life for all those passengers through carelessness, when in fact this is not established.
Sort of like how "I Wanna Destroy You" by the Circle Jerks ft. Debbie Gibson (yes, that Debbie Gibson) is originally by British punk band the Soft Boys. 😂
I only recently found out (from welding folks) that you can't light pure oxygen gas on fire because it's actually not flammable at all, but it makes everything it contacts much more combustible. I mean the net result is that, in most situations, you should behave as if oxygen is flammable, even though it isn't. If the cockpit got super oxygen-rich -- man, the walls and console (and personnel) would've flared up like dryer lint
Many countries allowed smoking in the cockpit long after it was banned in the passenger cabin as they were concerned that pilots making mistakes while suffering from nicotine withdraw was more dangerous than allowing smoking.
Had precisely this oxygen issue in the late 80s when I was flying a twin jet in the RAF. I was co-pilot. My emergency mask had a faulty valve so it was leaking O2 continuously. We spotted it eventually because the mechanical 'dolls-eye' indicator was showing continuous flow.
My Dad was a captain on a DC-10. He told me one time he was smoking and noticed that the cigarette was especially “bright”. He quickly figured that it was due to oxygen from his mask. Never had an accident but I am sure there were some attention getting events in his career. . . . . He retired in 1980.
A fire in an oxygen rich atmosphere will burn with incredible intensity and almost impossible to extinguish. Especially in a confined space like a cockpit. Like in oxy/fuel cutting, it’s the oxygen that does the business.
i love it when actual real investigators get to the bottom of things and uncover the real truth... i mean imagine if Egyptians went with the bomb theory and the incident occurred again..
BRO THANK YOU! I literally JUST posted a comment on your last video late last night checking in on you. It’s been a while. Glad to see you still alive.
Such phrases are common when religious folks believe they are going to die regardless of guilt or culpability. I worked at a hospital. I heard it once myself, other coworkers had witnessed similar statements.
With what @mbryson2899 said, it's very true too as in religion we believe we should be seeking forgiveness always, as nobody is perfect. When you "see death before your eyes" (knowing for sure you're gonna go), it's probably almost instinct for them to say those words.
In some religious traditions the first thing that comes to mind on hearing someone has died is “may they rest in peace”. In others it is “may god forgive them for their sins” - which isn’t any judgement on the person having been an egregiously bad person, just that everyone has sins that need forgiving. Think of that utterance as the ultimate memory item checklist.
the bad news is that we may never know what started truly started the fire because the egyptian investigators refused to cooperate, egypt was too insistent on telling it was terrorism even if no terror groups claimed the attack (which is exactly why youd commit one in the first place) it is confirmed that the plane had an oxygen leak, also a breach of maintenance policies, the plane involved itself was rumored to not be in good shape, but i cant verify that, the BEA has not ruled out factors like pilot smoking, short circuit, or even wild theories like the f/o's mobile overheating and being kept next to the oxygen mask, or possibly a cigarette dropping in the oxygen mask, we have advanced and educated guesses but we can never truly confirm what started the fire, and thats all thanks to egypt
The most offensive disagreement is flight 990, where the guy literally committed suicide by plane. Mayday had an episode of it and they had the gaul to let the family speak and deny it. No, your dad killed a bunch of people, deal with it.
Mayday unfortunately gives too much breath to idiotic conspiracy theorists. Frenchman who crashed a plane accused Airbus of a cover up. Italian military shooting down a civilian airliner. Etc. Bunch of bogus nonsense that they treated as valid.
If the pilot in question felt urged to take their own life in this way, because he was morally crazy, you know like all the s-bomber guys who do it because they're doing it for a greater cause, they want to hurt and kill people who don't agree with them en masse, whatever, in that case judge and curse away. Those are monsters. But, if the pilot ended up doing what he did because of a mental affliction, then, they are not to blame any more than a pilot who loses control of the plane and crashes as a result of hypoxia or cardiac arrest is. Neither of the latter three are physically capable or in control of their actions anymore. They are suffering from a severe medical emergency and can't be held responsible for any mistakes or errors in judgement that they make during that. If EgyptAir 990 went down because the pilot went through a mental health emergency and not because he was one of those "die and kill for my cause" or some other deluded cultist monster, then this is not any different from that of the one Helios flight where the tragedy occurs as a result of both pilots succumbing to hypoxia. Both are a result of tragedy caused by pilot incapacitation.
A small suggestion, you might want to put a high pass filter to filter out some low frequency, my system has a woofer, and I can hear some very loud low frequency mouth noise from time to time.
Yeah Apollo one has the exact same sequence of events. Pilots recognize the fire and then within seconds there is pandemonium/screaming. Absolutely horrible thing to happen and I can see why the Egyptian pilots reacted like that.
I mean, smoking in the cockpit is clearly not a good idea. But I am also sure that the first officer didn't expect that to result in a raging inferno engulfing the entire cockpit area in mere seconds.
Yeah. I thought the same thing about the kids in the cockpit accident with the Russian plane. When I first heard about it, I tried to figure out how the situation could go so bad that it crashed killing all on board. When the full circumstances were revealed, it was hard to believe. Such a simple thing as the pilots son turning slightly to the left(not knowing it was on autopilot) while his father and copilot were distracted momentarily was all it took. Of course there was more to it than that as the pilot forgot about the simple procedure to recover from the situation but still, I must admit, that episode bothered me for quite awhile.
@@sarahalbers5555 The old SA government did a really good job of covering it up lol but still interesting non the less. Also one of the few 747 combi aircraft crashed
Do the story about the F/O that farted so bad, the odor propagated down the fuselage to the rear pressure release valve, causing panic and and emergency landing.
I had Andre on the plane in first class way back in the 80's. Truthfully, I think he might have been too big to fit in a 727 lav. He was absolutely HUGE.
Fun story, i'm an EMT and many years ago used a scoop stretcher and two of those drinks carts stuck end to end as a makeshift gurney to get a woman off an a380. Was pretty proud of that macguyver moment. And no, before any of you chime in with your ideas, we had considered every other route and method you can think of, lol. Always one "just use the rear exit" person .
Off topic a bit, but I knew a guy. He was a drummer and a really chill and nice guy. He eventually got lung cancer and was on oxygen and strong pain killers. One day he went to smoke a cigarette and the oxygen ignited. Took him several days to die.... Poor guy.
As a lifetime non-smoker, back in the mid 80s I was a regular LHR - AMS biz class commuter. I always sat in smoking because it was empty and at the front so I was always at the head of the Hertz queue. #goodolddays
You have to recognize that at the time of this tragedy it had only been a decade, in Europe, since most if not all instrument approaches were performed with at least one of the two pilots smoking, which was a routine to alleviate stress almost universally practiced - so it’s not as though someone on the flight deck lighting up would be a once-in-history event capable of bringing down the airliner - quite the contrary. Moreover, we have to recognize that Corriere de la Sera, and more sadly, the French Bureau d’analyses have not performed to the same standard as US and UK agencies in establishing unfettered truth in accident reporting and investigation, and we are left with a big, gaping hole. Popular as it may be today to blame virtually every vice and vicissitude of chance on the venal sin of smoking, it is possible that this societal trend has had an inopportune effect on the search for truth in this particular accident investigation. NO - you should not smoke under any conditions on any airplane, but NO, doing so will not make the plane crash.
Filter? sure, whatever... but PLEASE, no background music... I actually had to rewind a couple sections of this story to discern what was being said- And that was while listening in a silent environment... Music would make this way worse... If someone needs music to play while they listen to this narration, they can do it independently...
To add some perspective on the oxygen-fueled fire, I'd like to add that while the natural O2 level is 21%, so-called flame retarding materials typically have got an LOI (limit oxygen index, i.e. minimum the O2 percentage required for allowing this material to burn) of 28% to 32%. This means that in case the O2 leak released just a few 100l (equivalent to a few 100g) of pure O2 into the flight deck atmosphere, the local O2 content will likely exceed the LOI for many materials used in the cockpit, like insulation, seat cushions, clothing etc. A small flame, e.g a cigarette burning will therefore likely turn into a catastrophic fire within a few seconds.
Well, back around 2009, I was on a flight where someone decided to smoke in the lav. After landing, the authorities came onboard and the guy was arrested in front of his family. That was a sad (and dangerous) situation.
There was a time when smoking was actually allowed on flights. The smoking seats were usually located at the rear of the cabin because air flowed through the cabin from front to back. I can't remember any incidents at the time when smoking was allowed where the act of smoking led directly to a total loss of an aircraft although I know of at least one incident where someone smoked illegally and failed to extinguish the butt completely before disposing it into the trash bin in the lavatory thereby causing a fire that destroyed the aircraft. If I'm correct, I can't help but see the tragic irony of banning smoking on all flights.
The plane was not brought down by the FO smoking. It was brought down by the oxygen leak. That oxygen was probably seeping into the cabin, no locked cockpit doors at that time, and could be easily ignited by any spark. I don't know if even a galley heater could ignite it.
I remember being in business class a couple of rows behind cockpit door as a smoker in a non smoking flight being tormented by what seemed absolutely constant wafts of smoke coming from the cockpit all the way from SYD to BKK. Do not recommend.
I still chuckle at the stupid joke when the pilot reminds everyone that the smoking section is located on the wing. Maybe because I endured many flights before smoking was banned.
Than you for this interesting report. Just d‘ont forget that the oxygen system was replaced and faulty and therefore a maintenance problem is really the root that caused the disaster.
I'm sorry, but the French BEA disproved the smoking theory in their appendix to the final report. A lit cigarette dropped in the perfect spot to light a fire from the oxygen mask leak would've produced a distinct noise that just wasn't in the CVR. The much more plausible scenario is a short circuit within the oxygen mask tubing lighting a spark
is oxygen cylinders flammable?mini air did u investiagate the gulf air crash as u promised of gulf air year 1983 from pakistan to auh and then crashed in jabal ali ?
@listey My dear friend, I do completely agree with u & I do remember when smoking was permitted in the rear 💺 seats of the a/c & this caused much stinking smoke throughout all of the a/c & those of us who worked in the a/c had to clean up 🧽 the smell of the smoke 💨 & how it did stink to high heaven 😢😢😢😢😮😢
I need to rectify that which I said in the previous statement, Those of us who were IN the a/c , but not worked in the a/c, so very sorry for the error 😩 😮😮😮
It used to be quite common on all airlines back then up to the 90ties. I seen flight crews smoking galore back in the day… Cigars, pipes, with holders u name it. Lufthansa, BA, AA , Air France were no exceptions….
Wait: so you are saying the Eygpt air had already had 1 fire in the cockpit due due to Oxygen...but never thought that the use of little personal fire-sticks in the cockpit was a bad idea???? in 2016 no less.
Clearly you're not a smoker. I suppose you think if you toss a lit cigarette onto gas the gas ignites, right? More likely a short somewhere mixed with the oxygen.
People used to smoke on planes all the time, including pilots in the cockpit. Not saying I condone it but smoking on a plane in and of itself never caused a crash before this.
Except there has been a few before this, Varig Flight 820 and Air Canada Flight 797 were likely caused be smoking. Not to mention an Aeroflot flight in the late 1930s.
Smoking has brought down many planes, starting in 1921. Don't be so damned ignorant. And second hand smoke still kills about 30,000 a year. Smokers are killers. Period.
Yeah, I don't think that was caused by smoking. The initial response was fire in the avionics bay. The O2 tanks aren't located in the avionics bay but the cargo bay. Even if they exploded due to a fire (and that's a big IF), they would cause the same damage as a explosive device which is probably what the Egyptians saw. But I don't buy the cigarette theory ether. The BEA has a history of rigging investigations in Airbus' favor to show no problem with the aircraft or other French assets, and their investigations have repeatedly been called into question by private investigators. The air from the O2 tanks is under pressure, so a flame cannot get into the O2 system the pilots use. Items in the cockpit are flame resistent and can take a lot of damage. Also, there would have been no reason to have air masks on if there was no smoke first. This gives more credence to the Egyptian theory, especially as they have dealt with bombings before (this would indicate a failure of French security something the BEA also doesn't like to highlight). But its rather difficult to see what caused this. A bombing is more likely, but I would say a piece of cargo that wasn't supposed to be on the aircraft similar to that ValueJet crash is most likely. A powerful enough flame or explosion could have taken out our overwhelmed the fire suppression system in the hold and caused the alerts they did pick up. However, if the French theory is correct, that means the aircraft could not maintain flame resistance up to regulations, something not called out here. Whatever it was, it was sudden enough for them not to get off a mayday.
Doesn´t at least this accident beg the question as to why the emergency breathing supply is fed with pure oxygen rather than good old fashioned air? It is easily more safe to have bog ol´ standard air aboard for such cases because unlike oxygen, air does not accelerate a fire anywhere near as much as said oxygen and also does not ignite. It also should not be that difficult to change from oxygen to air within the planes system in terms of refits. One could also install a system that automatically keeps the air tank topped up during flight, given that the cabins pressurization is done by an engine, one can also apply this for such a system. The air tank would only need to provide enough capacity to hold air for everyone.
Weight and space. Air is only 30% O2, so you'd need 3x the space for the tanks. So you lose capacity somewhere else, or need a slightly larger plane. There are no solutions, only trade-offs.
Technically they all died because of heart failure also, correct? Leaking oxygen didnt turn that cart inside out. And no noise on the recorder except the sound of hissing, then the cart turned inself inside out silently. Nice advertisement for not smoking but im not buying it.
What is up with the crazy low volume? -24dB??? Just use AI noise cancelling or a better setup if the noise is too much man. Or don't record when your family is sleeping.
I'm a smoker and I understand the need to smoke but come on. Not even I try to smoke during a flight lol And nah, Egypt says anything and everything to get their pilots out of trouble, it's pathetic
It's not your phone. It is this creator. The audio level of this video is approx 22dB lower than it should be, according to "stats for nerds". I already asked this creator a couple of times to do something about it but it does not help, so it seems. I'm using BT headphones on a computer, using the browser version of TH-cam, which has a "stable volume" setting, which I have on. That helps. I tried again with "stable volume" off and indeed, the audio level is very low on this vid. Without "stable volume" and my computer's audio sliders at max, it is still hard to understand.
The A320 is fly-by-wire. You lose the computers, and the pilots have no way to control the plane. Not saying this is a design flaw. There are benefits and drawbacks of FBW, arguably more benefits. But this is one of the drawbacks.
@@homer090 From the description in the video, it sounds like most or all the computers failed (probably fire in avionics bay). Hence my use of the plural "computers". Thank you for mentioning the mechanical backup. I did not know that. However, upon reading more about it, it seems to only give control of pitch trim, and rudder. You're supposed to control roll via the rudder, which means roll and yaw are now linked. Though I suppose you could try to use differential thrust to counter yaw.
This video was really well done, packed with a lot of information, the only problem my man is how u pronounced Cairo😂 matter of fact I think it should be a crime the way u said Cairo
Did you say first officer b/p-tuli? Isnt that the 1st officer who is kinda a 'old dude' who everyone referred to as 'captain' out of respect? It was thought it was the co-pilot who intentionally crashed the plane? With him chanting "I rely on God" all the way down? I must be mistaken thou- the incident im thinking of did not have fire damage
So according to Egyptian investigators, the co-pilot has a hobby of smuggling explosives while flying. Much better than the French smoking theory.
Just taking his favorite fireworks for a little ride
You know, like pilots do all the time
smh
@@AllonKirtchik Maybe he believed the "If I bring a bomb aboard my plane, the odds that there will be two bombs aboard will be infinitesimally small!" fallacy.
South African Airlines had a history of that; the Egyptians where caught red (smoking) handed though
Wouldn't trust a thing that the Egyptian authorities say. They have a history of political meddling in investigations.
Not the first time Egypt couldn’t handle the truth
Not the first time the French insisted nothing could be smuggled through airport security, too.
@ America and Canada:
Why are you looking at me when saying that?
Was that before or after all the western nations ravaged Egypt for their own artifacts and possessions, and now charge money to go see it in London museum, colonial parasite 🦠 always pointing to others mistakes and so called backward thinking, but never acknowledging how scumbagish the west is
Always the most frustrating part whenever I read crash reports that involve egyptian authorities
@@AncestorEmpire1 interesting to see the censorship taking place on TH-cam comment section
I believe the smoking theory combined with the oxygen leak is the most plausible explanation for this tragedy. It’s devastating to think that such a preventable mistake could lead to the loss of so many lives.
So is it safe to assume that neither the co-pilot or pilot were aware of the leaking oxygen? I was a little confused about that.
What you believe may be very sincere and justified by your knowledge, but it remains completely irrelevant, as you are not a qualified investigator entrusted with the evidence that would allow you to make a qualified judgement. So you are free to be "devastated" by something which exists only in your imagination.
@@scootermom1791 No - it is not safe to "assume" anything of the sort - nor to assume there was any leaking Oxygen whatsoever.
Sadly we will probably never know more, but the assumptions put forth in this video are nothing better than armchair experts' best guesses.
@@gregfaris6959 the OC was simply stating their opinion. It is completely relevant. If you don't have anything nice to say, then just don't!!
@@scootermom1791 I disagree. I feel much harm is done by flippant speculation, even if it is not intentionally malicious. You say I’m being unkind, but the OP is accusing the flight crew of causing loss of life for all those passengers through carelessness, when in fact this is not established.
Not the first time Egyptian investigators have covered up the truth. Great Video! Thanks.
It seems to be a habit. Same with their boat accidents.
'Smokin' In The Cockpit' was 1 of Motley Crüe's biggest hits in the early 90s.
The cockpit could easily be seen as "The Boys' Room ...:)
Originally by Brownsville Station in the early to mid 70s.
Sort of like how "I Wanna Destroy You" by the Circle Jerks ft. Debbie Gibson (yes, that Debbie Gibson) is originally by British punk band the Soft Boys. 😂
@kdawson020279 Nice! I grew up an 80s skate punk, even 40 years later I enjoy some Jerks or early era Black Flag with Morris.
Still going on in Africa
I only recently found out (from welding folks) that you can't light pure oxygen gas on fire because it's actually not flammable at all, but it makes everything it contacts much more combustible. I mean the net result is that, in most situations, you should behave as if oxygen is flammable, even though it isn't.
If the cockpit got super oxygen-rich -- man, the walls and console (and personnel) would've flared up like dryer lint
That is true, oxygen does not burn but it makes other things burn.
When the pilot lit the cigarette, he would have gone up from head to toe.
I was very surprised when I saw accident year... 2016... I thought idea of smoking in airplanes ended in 80s...
Many countries allowed smoking in the cockpit long after it was banned in the passenger cabin as they were concerned that pilots making mistakes while suffering from nicotine withdraw was more dangerous than allowing smoking.
That gives new meaning to "dying for a cigarette."
Glad you got a video out to end the year on a high, keep up the great work!
Had precisely this oxygen issue in the late 80s when I was flying a twin jet in the RAF. I was co-pilot. My emergency mask had a faulty valve so it was leaking O2 continuously. We spotted it eventually because the mechanical 'dolls-eye' indicator was showing continuous flow.
did you light up a smoke in flight?
My Dad was a captain on a DC-10. He told me one time he was smoking and noticed that the cigarette was especially “bright”. He quickly figured that it was due to oxygen from his mask. Never had an accident but I am sure there were some attention getting events in his career. . . . . He retired in 1980.
A fire in an oxygen rich atmosphere will burn with incredible intensity and almost impossible to extinguish. Especially in a confined space like a cockpit. Like in oxy/fuel cutting, it’s the oxygen that does the business.
Apollo 1 comes to mind with you saying that as the textbook example
@ correct. I couldn’t remember if it was Apollo or Gemini.
Thanks M A C I. I continue to enjoy your narration very much.
i love it when actual real investigators get to the bottom of things and uncover the real truth... i mean imagine if Egyptians went with the bomb theory and the incident occurred again..
BRO THANK YOU! I literally JUST posted a comment on your last video late last night checking in on you. It’s been a while. Glad to see you still alive.
Smoking kills. That's written on cigarette boxes for a reason.
How about the guy who survived a crash because he was in the smoker section
"God, please forgive me," sounds like something the guilty party would say....
Such phrases are common when religious folks believe they are going to die regardless of guilt or culpability.
I worked at a hospital. I heard it once myself, other coworkers had witnessed similar statements.
With what @mbryson2899 said, it's very true too as in religion we believe we should be seeking forgiveness always, as nobody is perfect. When you "see death before your eyes" (knowing for sure you're gonna go), it's probably almost instinct for them to say those words.
In some religious traditions the first thing that comes to mind on hearing someone has died is “may they rest in peace”. In others it is “may god forgive them for their sins” - which isn’t any judgement on the person having been an egregiously bad person, just that everyone has sins that need forgiving.
Think of that utterance as the ultimate memory item checklist.
yeah guilty for smoking a cigarette
Its like a library in here
...shhhhhhh!!!
... shhhhhhh!!!
He flew that jet straight to Flavor Country
the bad news is that we may never know what started truly started the fire because the egyptian investigators refused to cooperate, egypt was too insistent on telling it was terrorism even if no terror groups claimed the attack (which is exactly why youd commit one in the first place)
it is confirmed that the plane had an oxygen leak, also a breach of maintenance policies, the plane involved itself was rumored to not be in good shape, but i cant verify that, the BEA has not ruled out factors like pilot smoking, short circuit, or even wild theories like the f/o's mobile overheating and being kept next to the oxygen mask, or possibly a cigarette dropping in the oxygen mask, we have advanced and educated guesses but we can never truly confirm what started the fire, and thats all thanks to egypt
Why would anyone be crazy or suicidal enough to fly EgyptAir is beyond me.
The most offensive disagreement is flight 990, where the guy literally committed suicide by plane. Mayday had an episode of it and they had the gaul to let the family speak and deny it. No, your dad killed a bunch of people, deal with it.
That’s actually the flight that the quote from the journalist was about.
Mayday unfortunately gives too much breath to idiotic conspiracy theorists. Frenchman who crashed a plane accused Airbus of a cover up. Italian military shooting down a civilian airliner. Etc. Bunch of bogus nonsense that they treated as valid.
If the pilot in question felt urged to take their own life in this way, because he was morally crazy, you know like all the s-bomber guys who do it because they're doing it for a greater cause, they want to hurt and kill people who don't agree with them en masse, whatever, in that case judge and curse away. Those are monsters. But, if the pilot ended up doing what he did because of a mental affliction, then, they are not to blame any more than a pilot who loses control of the plane and crashes as a result of hypoxia or cardiac arrest is. Neither of the latter three are physically capable or in control of their actions anymore. They are suffering from a severe medical emergency and can't be held responsible for any mistakes or errors in judgement that they make during that. If EgyptAir 990 went down because the pilot went through a mental health emergency and not because he was one of those "die and kill for my cause" or some other deluded cultist monster, then this is not any different from that of the one Helios flight where the tragedy occurs as a result of both pilots succumbing to hypoxia. Both are a result of tragedy caused by pilot incapacitation.
A small suggestion, you might want to put a high pass filter to filter out some low frequency, my system has a woofer, and I can hear some very loud low frequency mouth noise from time to time.
Look up the Apollo 1 fire. While on the ground, and training in the capsule with pure oxygen, a fire started and the crew was killed in seconds.
Yeah Apollo one has the exact same sequence of events. Pilots recognize the fire and then within seconds there is pandemonium/screaming. Absolutely horrible thing to happen and I can see why the Egyptian pilots reacted like that.
they were killed gus grissom , doubted the rocket could go to the moon and even hung a lemon on , one, he wouldnt go along with a moon landing hoax
Fabulous work effort dude for along a time that went without any alerts. 😊
I mean, smoking in the cockpit is clearly not a good idea. But I am also sure that the first officer didn't expect that to result in a raging inferno engulfing the entire cockpit area in mere seconds.
Yeah. I thought the same thing about the kids in the cockpit accident with the Russian plane. When I first heard about it, I tried to figure out how the situation could go so bad that it crashed killing all on board. When the full circumstances were revealed, it was hard to believe. Such a simple thing as the pilots son turning slightly to the left(not knowing it was on autopilot) while his father and copilot were distracted momentarily was all it took. Of course there was more to it than that as the pilot forgot about the simple procedure to recover from the situation but still, I must admit, that episode bothered me for quite awhile.
Please do a video on South African Airways Flight 295. It is truly an interesting one that more people deserve to know about.
We'll never know how and what the cause of cargo fire
Well there are some pretty compelling theories and plenty of stuff to get into.
But hard evidence? It would be interesting to check it out.
@@sarahalbers5555 The old SA government did a really good job of covering it up lol but still interesting non the less. Also one of the few 747 combi aircraft crashed
Do the story about the F/O that farted so bad, the odor propagated down the fuselage to the rear pressure release valve, causing panic and and emergency landing.
Wait,what?
I need to read up on this now.I've heard the old adageaboutthe air on planes being recycled farts,but, this is the actual example
Or when Andre the giant did such a stinky dump that they had to divert the plane. I really hope that it is actually a true story 😅
I had Andre on the plane in first class way back in the 80's. Truthfully, I think he might have been too big to fit in a 727 lav. He was absolutely HUGE.
I can’t find anything about this. I can only find passengers farting causing an emergency landing.
Fun story, i'm an EMT and many years ago used a scoop stretcher and two of those drinks carts stuck end to end as a makeshift gurney to get a woman off an a380. Was pretty proud of that macguyver moment.
And no, before any of you chime in with your ideas, we had considered every other route and method you can think of, lol. Always one "just use the rear exit" person .
Off topic a bit, but I knew a guy. He was a drummer and a really chill and nice guy. He eventually got lung cancer and was on oxygen and strong pain killers. One day he went to smoke a cigarette and the oxygen ignited. Took him several days to die.... Poor guy.
As a lifetime non-smoker, back in the mid 80s I was a regular LHR - AMS biz class commuter. I always sat in smoking because it was empty and at the front so I was always at the head of the Hertz queue. #goodolddays
You have to recognize that at the time of this tragedy it had only been a decade, in Europe, since most if not all instrument approaches were performed with at least one of the two pilots smoking, which was a routine to alleviate stress almost universally practiced - so it’s not as though someone on the flight deck lighting up would be a once-in-history event capable of bringing down the airliner - quite the contrary.
Moreover, we have to recognize that Corriere de la Sera, and more sadly, the French Bureau d’analyses have not performed to the same standard as US and UK agencies in establishing unfettered truth in accident reporting and investigation, and we are left with a big, gaping hole.
Popular as it may be today to blame virtually every vice and vicissitude of chance on the venal sin of smoking, it is possible that this societal trend has had an inopportune effect on the search for truth in this particular accident investigation.
NO - you should not smoke under any conditions on any airplane, but NO, doing so will not make the plane crash.
The microphones picked up the hissing noise, but the copilot couldn't hear it? Makes total sense!
Hey. Thx. Btw you have a extreme wet pronunciation. Perhaps you can fix it with a filter? Background music also would help. Thx 😁
Filter? sure, whatever... but PLEASE, no background music... I actually had to rewind a couple sections of this story to discern what was being said- And that was while listening in a silent environment... Music would make this way worse... If someone needs music to play while they listen to this narration, they can do it independently...
To add some perspective on the oxygen-fueled fire, I'd like to add that while the natural O2 level is 21%, so-called flame retarding materials typically have got an LOI (limit oxygen index, i.e. minimum the O2 percentage required for allowing this material to burn) of 28% to 32%.
This means that in case the O2 leak released just a few 100l (equivalent to a few 100g) of pure O2 into the flight deck atmosphere, the local O2 content will likely exceed the LOI for many materials used in the cockpit, like insulation, seat cushions, clothing etc.
A small flame, e.g a cigarette burning will therefore likely turn into a catastrophic fire within a few seconds.
It's rich how Egypt thought 💣💥 was the better story than a fire.
Well, back around 2009, I was on a flight where someone decided to smoke in the lav. After landing, the authorities came onboard and the guy was arrested in front of his family. That was a sad (and dangerous) situation.
Not sad at all. He’s an asshole and knew better.
Wtf was dangerous about it? Ppl used to smoke on planes regularly. Big fuckin deal
There was a time when smoking was actually allowed on flights. The smoking seats were usually located at the rear of the cabin because air flowed through the cabin from front to back. I can't remember any incidents at the time when smoking was allowed where the act of smoking led directly to a total loss of an aircraft although I know of at least one incident where someone smoked illegally and failed to extinguish the butt completely before disposing it into the trash bin in the lavatory thereby causing a fire that destroyed the aircraft. If I'm correct, I can't help but see the tragic irony of banning smoking on all flights.
I can remember a similar story regarding an audible hissing noise on the flight recorder. This was determined to be snakes on a plane.
The plane was not brought down by the FO smoking. It was brought down by the oxygen leak. That oxygen was probably seeping into the cabin, no locked cockpit doors at that time, and could be easily ignited by any spark. I don't know if even a galley heater could ignite it.
Can you cover Northwest Airlines Flight 255?
I remember being in business class a couple of rows behind cockpit door as a smoker in a non smoking flight being tormented by what seemed absolutely constant wafts of smoke coming from the cockpit all the way from SYD to BKK.
Do not recommend.
The Egyptians never blame their pilots, never
I still chuckle at the stupid joke when the pilot reminds everyone that the smoking section is located on the wing. Maybe because I endured many flights before smoking was banned.
Than you for this interesting report. Just d‘ont forget that the oxygen system was replaced and faulty and therefore a maintenance problem is really
the root that caused the disaster.
Lookup ashtrays in cockpit. Smoking in the cockpit was a thing.
Not for many, many years.
My Dad was a captain on a DC-10. He retired in 1980. He used to smoke as many did at that time. Glad they finally said no smoking at all. Good move.
Since oxygen can be ignited by the slightest spark, there is no need to posit smoking, although smoking remains a possibility.
At 11:59 - "... It will really help the channel grow! ..."
I'm sorry, but the French BEA disproved the smoking theory in their appendix to the final report.
A lit cigarette dropped in the perfect spot to light a fire from the oxygen mask leak would've produced a distinct noise that just wasn't in the CVR. The much more plausible scenario is a short circuit within the oxygen mask tubing lighting a spark
It's not that long ago we all smoked on planes. We smoked everywhere.
An oxygen-fed fire can be quickly fatal even on the ground (see: Apollo 1).
I mean,... technically only the maintenance peoples fault if smoking was legal at the time
is oxygen cylinders flammable?mini air did u investiagate the gulf air crash as u promised of gulf air year 1983 from pakistan to auh and then crashed in jabal ali ?
Had it been an explosion, wouldn't it have been picked up by the CVR? Given that it had been proven that the fire started in or near the cockpit
Imagine being so brainless to smoke in the cockpit 🤦♂️
Imagine being so brainless as to _allow_ smoking in the cockpit.
@listey My dear friend, I do completely agree with u & I do remember when smoking was permitted in the rear 💺 seats of the a/c & this caused much stinking smoke throughout all of the a/c & those of us who worked in the a/c had to clean up 🧽 the smell of the smoke 💨 & how it did stink to high heaven 😢😢😢😢😮😢
I need to rectify that which I said in the previous statement, Those of us who were IN the a/c , but not worked in the a/c, so very sorry for the error 😩 😮😮😮
It used to be quite common on all airlines back then up to the 90ties. I seen flight crews smoking galore back in the day… Cigars, pipes, with holders u name it. Lufthansa, BA, AA , Air France were no exceptions….
It was not allowed. The pilots broke the rules.
Dude, why are you whispering?
If the unit was replaced 2 days before and had been leaking oxygen (even if only in flight) that whole time, it should've been out of oxygen.
"The flight went off without a hitch". Um, no.
Great video but what's wrong with the wings in the thumbnail?! 😅
_entire plane_ you say-how could be only _a half of a plane_ taken down? : )
9:10
The whole world smoked on planes until the 90s.
And in banks, supermarkets, even drs offices. Really?
Wait: so you are saying the Eygpt air had already had 1 fire in the cockpit due due to Oxygen...but never thought that the use of little personal fire-sticks in the cockpit was a bad idea???? in 2016 no less.
I smoke but even if I could on a flight I certainly wouldn't.
Dude where you been?!
The BEA report finds the smoking theory very unlikely, practically ruling it out.
Great content as always. On a technical note, this video‘s audio is exceptionally quiet, maybe you want to check your settings
Smoking kills 66 people
Until now they’re smoking in the cockpit
Seems like a high price to pay for a nicotine hit.
This sounds kind of like a serious problem with the A320 design? Are the materials not fire retardent?
Oh i remember this from the mayday show
Clearly you're not a smoker. I suppose you think if you toss a lit cigarette onto gas the gas ignites, right? More likely a short somewhere mixed with the oxygen.
People used to smoke on planes all the time, including pilots in the cockpit. Not saying I condone it but smoking on a plane in and of itself never caused a crash before this.
Except there has been a few before this, Varig Flight 820 and Air Canada Flight 797 were likely caused be smoking. Not to mention an Aeroflot flight in the late 1930s.
There has been 😂
Smoking has brought down many planes, starting in 1921. Don't be so damned ignorant.
And second hand smoke still kills about 30,000 a year. Smokers are killers. Period.
Despite this, smokers STILL want to be able to smoke on planes again.
I'm not advocating for bringing it back, but millions of smoking flights were successfully flown. You're making a hasty generalization.
Yeah, but it's been banned for so long, the nicorette gum is what they use to maintain.
Your thumbnail AI is taking some creative liberties with that wing i think? 😂
I think that's just a winglet viewed in forced perspective
Yeah, I don't think that was caused by smoking. The initial response was fire in the avionics bay. The O2 tanks aren't located in the avionics bay but the cargo bay. Even if they exploded due to a fire (and that's a big IF), they would cause the same damage as a explosive device which is probably what the Egyptians saw. But I don't buy the cigarette theory ether. The BEA has a history of rigging investigations in Airbus' favor to show no problem with the aircraft or other French assets, and their investigations have repeatedly been called into question by private investigators. The air from the O2 tanks is under pressure, so a flame cannot get into the O2 system the pilots use. Items in the cockpit are flame resistent and can take a lot of damage. Also, there would have been no reason to have air masks on if there was no smoke first. This gives more credence to the Egyptian theory, especially as they have dealt with bombings before (this would indicate a failure of French security something the BEA also doesn't like to highlight). But its rather difficult to see what caused this. A bombing is more likely, but I would say a piece of cargo that wasn't supposed to be on the aircraft similar to that ValueJet crash is most likely. A powerful enough flame or explosion could have taken out our overwhelmed the fire suppression system in the hold and caused the alerts they did pick up. However, if the French theory is correct, that means the aircraft could not maintain flame resistance up to regulations, something not called out here. Whatever it was, it was sudden enough for them not to get off a mayday.
Your voice sounds-filtered through a high frequency two way radio.
Doesn´t at least this accident beg the question as to why the emergency breathing supply is fed with pure oxygen rather than good old fashioned air? It is easily more safe to have bog ol´ standard air aboard for such cases because unlike oxygen, air does not accelerate a fire anywhere near as much as said oxygen and also does not ignite. It also should not be that difficult to change from oxygen to air within the planes system in terms of refits. One could also install a system that automatically keeps the air tank topped up during flight, given that the cabins pressurization is done by an engine, one can also apply this for such a system. The air tank would only need to provide enough capacity to hold air for everyone.
Weight and space. Air is only 30% O2, so you'd need 3x the space for the tanks. So you lose capacity somewhere else, or need a slightly larger plane.
There are no solutions, only trade-offs.
Technically they all died because of heart failure also, correct? Leaking oxygen didnt turn that cart inside out. And no noise on the recorder except the sound of hissing, then the cart turned inself inside out silently. Nice advertisement for not smoking but im not buying it.
What is up with the crazy low volume? -24dB??? Just use AI noise cancelling or a better setup if the noise is too much man. Or don't record when your family is sleeping.
the volume is fine though?
I'm a smoker and I understand the need to smoke but come on. Not even I try to smoke during a flight lol
And nah, Egypt says anything and everything to get their pilots out of trouble, it's pathetic
Nice!
This is a great video. But my phone is on maximum volume up, but the video sound is still low. Or maybe it's my phone that's f*ckiñg up
It's the phone - volume here is 5/5 .
@@IN_and_OUT sounded fine to me
It's not your phone. It is this creator. The audio level of this video is approx 22dB lower than it should be, according to "stats for nerds".
I already asked this creator a couple of times to do something about it but it does not help, so it seems.
I'm using BT headphones on a computer, using the browser version of TH-cam, which has a "stable volume" setting, which I have on. That helps. I tried again with "stable volume" off and indeed, the audio level is very low on this vid. Without "stable volume" and my computer's audio sliders at max, it is still hard to understand.
It's fine on my laptop
It’s on the user end, I’m at 1/3 max volume and it’s fine
The A320 is fly-by-wire. You lose the computers, and the pilots have no way to control the plane. Not saying this is a design flaw. There are benefits and drawbacks of FBW, arguably more benefits. But this is one of the drawbacks.
Incorrect, there are multiple computers as backup, if they fail there is a mechanical backup.
@@homer090 From the description in the video, it sounds like most or all the computers failed (probably fire in avionics bay). Hence my use of the plural "computers".
Thank you for mentioning the mechanical backup. I did not know that. However, upon reading more about it, it seems to only give control of pitch trim, and rudder. You're supposed to control roll via the rudder, which means roll and yaw are now linked. Though I suppose you could try to use differential thrust to counter yaw.
Yet another reason why authoritian regimes are a bad idea.
The volume setting of your videos is too low and this is affecting their quality.
📢 ENABLE "Stable Volume" in the player settings if the video is too quiet
Raise the sound volume pls
The gravity point is center for flyings. A jet wings on high golden meltings. One time only please
Pyramidal? Egyptians? Naahhhh.
The video sound is too quiet
K
Louder, please
This video was really well done, packed with a lot of information, the only problem my man is how u pronounced Cairo😂 matter of fact I think it should be a crime the way u said Cairo
4:36 So, between 2^11-1 and 2^10 Newtons? "What a funny coincidence."
Did you say first officer b/p-tuli? Isnt that the 1st officer who is kinda a 'old dude' who everyone referred to as 'captain' out of respect?
It was thought it was the co-pilot who intentionally crashed the plane?
With him chanting "I rely on God" all the way down?
I must be mistaken thou- the incident im thinking of did not have fire damage
I used to want to take my family and go to Alice Springs and see Uluru and all that.
I think I will give it a miss.
Get better at reading before you try to narrate
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle couldn't have unfolded this mystery & it's solution any better.
It's better to smoke in the back of the plain.
cockpit... hehe
- peter griffin