I feel like the argument is supposed to be that Eggman’s Army relies on being guided and controlled at all times, which tends to have the common troops much weaker as a result. Their strategies and coordination would suffer, as they need either Eggman or Sage to manually place them in the correct spots or adapt during an active battle in a war zone, which they’ve rarely, if ever, been shown. The only ones that would’ve been able to cover that weakness would be more powerful characters like Infinite and Metal Sonic, and Metal only barely gets in there since his rebellious nature was taken out. Bowser’s troops were at least mentioned to be able to make formations, and had a variety of leaders outside of Bowser and Bowser Jr. to command them. Plus, as individuals they would be able to adjust accordingly, or adapt to the enemy. Personally, I haven’t seen Eggman’s fleet do more than just show up and fire at things, but that’s just my thoughts on it
@OtomostheCrazy I can see why they say Bowsers army is stronger, but i don't agree with them on why they're stronger. They say that the koopa troops can use any power up and that'd make too many scenarios for Eggman to counter, but I doubt that's true. Eggmans army has way stronger weaponry than something like a boomerang or a fire flower. Metal Sonic does have a personality of sorts in the idw comics. He isn't rebellious anymore but he does have some sort of thoughts, seeing as you can see him legitimately get upset when he finds out he isn't the real sonic. Metal Sonic is shown really well in the animation though, not needing guidance from Eggman and identifying threats when he sees them and deals with them accordingly. Sage also could have guided the troops and been a bit more a part of the fight. She's the one with the strategies and i wish we saw that. The hard boiled heavies could also command the other robots into battle, so it is more than just Eggman. Does that change the outcome or verdict? No everything you said about Marios side is still true, I just have some issues with minor parts of their research.
@@plimepf9493 considering bowsers army is over 98 million and there's a TON of variety and none of them have a singular mind, the amount of variations- especially when considering the items like the wonder flower and pure hearts- there's just too much information sage and eggman wouldn't be able to really come up with sure fire strategies considering they have NO idea what these items can do while some of bowsers biggest items are automatic- like the pure hearts countering the emeralds and time eater by simply existing
Yeah I'm calling bunk on that personally. They say they don't take the claim that Bowser is as smart as he is, but they take the claim that his army is as big as it is. He conquered galaxies sure, but there's no more than like 30 units per galaxy in the whole game. The variety doesn't matter when they've never utilized they're forces like that before and even if they did, the normal power ups would never stack up to eggmans more formidable robots, like metal Sonic or even the lazer shooting units from heroes. The wonder flower can't just manipulate reality however Bowser pleases, if he could than he would have done that in wonder. When Mario gets it, reality is manipulated, but it's not like Mario is controlling how it happens. Sure it does give him a ton of advantages, but to believe he can just warp reality however he pleases is a no limits falacy. The pure hearts also aren't a game Ender, seeing as you need 4 heroes of light to even activate them and they have been weakened before. Bowser wouldn't be able to use the full power of the hearts if he could even use the hearts by himself at all. Also, we don't know the size and scope of eggmans army, seeing as we've also seen him conquered multiple planets in sonic colors. They give him conquering earth but not the extra planets. I don't deny Bowser still wins, but those reasons aren't why he wins.
@@plimepf9493 i'm sorry to tell you but that number is canon. Brothership directly tells us that's how many of bowsers army mario has defeated meaning it's at LEAST that much if not higher. (I guess you could argue repeat fights but ehhh i don't buy that) The pure hearts only need 4 heroes of light to activate, if given to bowser in a post paper mario state they would still have that power. It might be a little contrived but the hearts also don't have to be powered by people completely good- Jr and the koopalings should be able to cover due to their devotion and genuine love for bowser. I personally think it's reasonable that bowser has the army advantage, especially since kamek's magic to duplicate bowsers army can't be countered like the phantom ruby can other than taking out kamek- a MUCH harder feat than countering the ruby or removing it from eggman's side. I don't doubt it's much closer than people think but I firmly believe bowser takes that.
@FranTheNerd Bowser does have the army advantage because of kamek, that part i agree with. Kamek could enhance bowsers army with his magic or even turning them into other bowsers. I'm more referring to just the normal units. No Metal Sonic, no Eggman, no Bowser, no kamek. Sure they could guide eachother and have better teamwork, but we've seen in other games that Eggmans army does work together. In unleashed, we see formations of enemies when super sonic is fighting them, creating barriers and attack forces. And we can agree to disagree for the number of soldiers in bowsers military. Unless they're saying that Mario has never put a single person out of commission, I'd fold and believe that fact. But we've never seen Mario take out near that many, and if Mario did, than that means Bowser would have had to replace the units. Any military has lost more soldiers than it still currently has, so that's why I'm not a fan of that logic personally. I'd have to look more into the pure hearts. From my understanding, they have to be in the heart pillars to work, and that at the end of the game, the two characters combined them into the purity heart to seal the chaos heart. I don't know if that'd be a win all against the chaos emeralds and the Phantom ruby. Both power sets are very vast, especially if you add Chronicles or rush, which show them effecting multiple dimensions.
In Luigis mansion dark moon King Boo created a portal to another universe which almost destroyed our whole dimension if Luigi didn’t get the ghost fast enough
@@OtomostheCrazy infinites scene is both one of the coolest and funniest of the whole battle. But the idea of dropping a thwomp on him while gravity is increased is genuis
36:52 Like 99 Percent of people are praising the episode. I don't understand why a few people who didn't like the verdict is getting you upset. People have a right to their own personal feelings.
@NebulaSon just to be clear, it's not getting me upset, I had just watched the episode so I had no idea how people responded to it. The point was that I don't think people should hate it after such an amazing fight just because of who won. It happens so much with db that in general, I just find it a shame. I have disagreements with this episode myself, so of course I wouldn't look down on people who thought otherwise. There's a difference between "hey don't let that get you down" and "how dare you think that way". That's all I'm saying.
Metal Sonic could just teleport and kick kamek and snatch the wand and copy it. Reality warping wish wont work on time eater, plus he can just suck the dream stone out of Bowser hand.
Metal Sonic could teleport, but so could many Mario characters as well. I'm not sure if Metal could just copy the wand, in sonic heroes he actively had to watch the teams to copy their abilitiwasnhe had to do more than just look at them. I'm not sure why the time Eater couldn't be destroyed by the dream stone, but I do agree that Eggman could just take the dream stone like how Bowser took the Phantom ruby. But it seems that they just didn't use anything from Sonic Shuffle, which I do find quite interesting
@plimepf9493 My thing is, if Mario can can beat kamek, there's nothing stopping Metal from out speeding him and taking his wand from him. Also there's the Egg Bishop(btw death battle didn't bring him up) that can counter the koopas magic and restore and heal the mechs.
@plimepf9493 Because if the koopas take anything like the emeralds or phantom ruby, the egg bishop can just restore it since they have the ability to make things disappear or reappear like the players rings. Or if kamek use magic to take metal sonic apart, they can just restore him or any mechs. Chaos Control can also handle any transmutation.
I think that's only when factoring in King Boo and Kamek. When I say army, I don't mean the special units like them, I mean the basic units like goombas and koopas. The same way I don't really factor in Sage or metal Sonic when referring to eggmans army. I see each as their own units.
But I will say, I said in this reaction that the whole teamwork thing isn't a factor, but after the fact I can see why it is. Covering for eachothers weaknesses was a big factor in this fight, but Eggman only covers for his own weaknesses.
@@plimepf9493for example how even random goomba’s can literally lead other groups of soldiers while also the teamwork literally keeps the fight longer while preservating valuable soldiers Random magikoopas can create small structures and the koopalings can turn a random goomba into a mini boss by themselves (but no alone, because all together are just kamek level or a little stronger but less versatile) King boo can control tech and even gets stronger with other boos existence alone (and it was ignored his ability to negg durability by putting people in paintings) While also bowser having another giant form as dry bowser (probably weaker than fury, but stronger than base giant stronger magic and flames)
I feel like the argument is supposed to be that Eggman’s Army relies on being guided and controlled at all times, which tends to have the common troops much weaker as a result. Their strategies and coordination would suffer, as they need either Eggman or Sage to manually place them in the correct spots or adapt during an active battle in a war zone, which they’ve rarely, if ever, been shown. The only ones that would’ve been able to cover that weakness would be more powerful characters like Infinite and Metal Sonic, and Metal only barely gets in there since his rebellious nature was taken out.
Bowser’s troops were at least mentioned to be able to make formations, and had a variety of leaders outside of Bowser and Bowser Jr. to command them. Plus, as individuals they would be able to adjust accordingly, or adapt to the enemy.
Personally, I haven’t seen Eggman’s fleet do more than just show up and fire at things, but that’s just my thoughts on it
@OtomostheCrazy I can see why they say Bowsers army is stronger, but i don't agree with them on why they're stronger. They say that the koopa troops can use any power up and that'd make too many scenarios for Eggman to counter, but I doubt that's true. Eggmans army has way stronger weaponry than something like a boomerang or a fire flower. Metal Sonic does have a personality of sorts in the idw comics. He isn't rebellious anymore but he does have some sort of thoughts, seeing as you can see him legitimately get upset when he finds out he isn't the real sonic. Metal Sonic is shown really well in the animation though, not needing guidance from Eggman and identifying threats when he sees them and deals with them accordingly. Sage also could have guided the troops and been a bit more a part of the fight. She's the one with the strategies and i wish we saw that. The hard boiled heavies could also command the other robots into battle, so it is more than just Eggman. Does that change the outcome or verdict? No everything you said about Marios side is still true, I just have some issues with minor parts of their research.
@@plimepf9493 considering bowsers army is over 98 million and there's a TON of variety and none of them have a singular mind, the amount of variations- especially when considering the items like the wonder flower and pure hearts- there's just too much information sage and eggman wouldn't be able to really come up with sure fire strategies considering they have NO idea what these items can do while some of bowsers biggest items are automatic- like the pure hearts countering the emeralds and time eater by simply existing
Yeah I'm calling bunk on that personally. They say they don't take the claim that Bowser is as smart as he is, but they take the claim that his army is as big as it is. He conquered galaxies sure, but there's no more than like 30 units per galaxy in the whole game. The variety doesn't matter when they've never utilized they're forces like that before and even if they did, the normal power ups would never stack up to eggmans more formidable robots, like metal Sonic or even the lazer shooting units from heroes. The wonder flower can't just manipulate reality however Bowser pleases, if he could than he would have done that in wonder. When Mario gets it, reality is manipulated, but it's not like Mario is controlling how it happens. Sure it does give him a ton of advantages, but to believe he can just warp reality however he pleases is a no limits falacy. The pure hearts also aren't a game Ender, seeing as you need 4 heroes of light to even activate them and they have been weakened before. Bowser wouldn't be able to use the full power of the hearts if he could even use the hearts by himself at all. Also, we don't know the size and scope of eggmans army, seeing as we've also seen him conquered multiple planets in sonic colors. They give him conquering earth but not the extra planets. I don't deny Bowser still wins, but those reasons aren't why he wins.
@@plimepf9493 i'm sorry to tell you but that number is canon. Brothership directly tells us that's how many of bowsers army mario has defeated meaning it's at LEAST that much if not higher. (I guess you could argue repeat fights but ehhh i don't buy that)
The pure hearts only need 4 heroes of light to activate, if given to bowser in a post paper mario state they would still have that power. It might be a little contrived but the hearts also don't have to be powered by people completely good- Jr and the koopalings should be able to cover due to their devotion and genuine love for bowser.
I personally think it's reasonable that bowser has the army advantage, especially since kamek's magic to duplicate bowsers army can't be countered like the phantom ruby can other than taking out kamek- a MUCH harder feat than countering the ruby or removing it from eggman's side. I don't doubt it's much closer than people think but I firmly believe bowser takes that.
@FranTheNerd Bowser does have the army advantage because of kamek, that part i agree with. Kamek could enhance bowsers army with his magic or even turning them into other bowsers. I'm more referring to just the normal units. No Metal Sonic, no Eggman, no Bowser, no kamek. Sure they could guide eachother and have better teamwork, but we've seen in other games that Eggmans army does work together. In unleashed, we see formations of enemies when super sonic is fighting them, creating barriers and attack forces. And we can agree to disagree for the number of soldiers in bowsers military. Unless they're saying that Mario has never put a single person out of commission, I'd fold and believe that fact. But we've never seen Mario take out near that many, and if Mario did, than that means Bowser would have had to replace the units. Any military has lost more soldiers than it still currently has, so that's why I'm not a fan of that logic personally. I'd have to look more into the pure hearts. From my understanding, they have to be in the heart pillars to work, and that at the end of the game, the two characters combined them into the purity heart to seal the chaos heart. I don't know if that'd be a win all against the chaos emeralds and the Phantom ruby. Both power sets are very vast, especially if you add Chronicles or rush, which show them effecting multiple dimensions.
In Luigis mansion dark moon King Boo created a portal to another universe which almost destroyed our whole dimension if Luigi didn’t get the ghost fast enough
I love the part where King Boo used the augmented gravity against Infinite
@@OtomostheCrazy infinites scene is both one of the coolest and funniest of the whole battle. But the idea of dropping a thwomp on him while gravity is increased is genuis
36:52 Like 99 Percent of people are praising the episode. I don't understand why a few people who didn't like the verdict is getting you upset. People have a right to their own personal feelings.
@NebulaSon just to be clear, it's not getting me upset, I had just watched the episode so I had no idea how people responded to it. The point was that I don't think people should hate it after such an amazing fight just because of who won. It happens so much with db that in general, I just find it a shame. I have disagreements with this episode myself, so of course I wouldn't look down on people who thought otherwise. There's a difference between "hey don't let that get you down" and "how dare you think that way". That's all I'm saying.
Metal Sonic could just teleport and kick kamek and snatch the wand and copy it. Reality warping wish wont work on time eater, plus he can just suck the dream stone out of Bowser hand.
Metal Sonic could teleport, but so could many Mario characters as well. I'm not sure if Metal could just copy the wand, in sonic heroes he actively had to watch the teams to copy their abilitiwasnhe had to do more than just look at them. I'm not sure why the time Eater couldn't be destroyed by the dream stone, but I do agree that Eggman could just take the dream stone like how Bowser took the Phantom ruby. But it seems that they just didn't use anything from Sonic Shuffle, which I do find quite interesting
@plimepf9493 My thing is, if Mario can can beat kamek, there's nothing stopping Metal from out speeding him and taking his wand from him. Also there's the Egg Bishop(btw death battle didn't bring him up) that can counter the koopas magic and restore and heal the mechs.
@NebulaSon when I was doing my research I did find note that they healed other machines, how does it counter the koopas magic though?
@plimepf9493 Because if the koopas take anything like the emeralds or phantom ruby, the egg bishop can just restore it since they have the ability to make things disappear or reappear like the players rings. Or if kamek use magic to take metal sonic apart, they can just restore him or any mechs. Chaos Control can also handle any transmutation.
That is way to specific
Bruh it’s clear that Bowser’s army is better than
I think that's only when factoring in King Boo and Kamek. When I say army, I don't mean the special units like them, I mean the basic units like goombas and koopas. The same way I don't really factor in Sage or metal Sonic when referring to eggmans army. I see each as their own units.
@ AHHHHHH I get what you mean now
But I will say, I said in this reaction that the whole teamwork thing isn't a factor, but after the fact I can see why it is. Covering for eachothers weaknesses was a big factor in this fight, but Eggman only covers for his own weaknesses.
@ I think that this being an army fight, team work definitely mattered if one is so garbage at handling his troops then you’re gonna have a rough time
@@plimepf9493for example how even random goomba’s can literally lead other groups of soldiers while also the teamwork literally keeps the fight longer while preservating valuable soldiers
Random magikoopas can create small structures and the koopalings can turn a random goomba into a mini boss by themselves (but no alone, because all together are just kamek level or a little stronger but less versatile)
King boo can control tech and even gets stronger with other boos existence alone (and it was ignored his ability to negg durability by putting people in paintings)
While also bowser having another giant form as dry bowser (probably weaker than fury, but stronger than base giant stronger magic and flames)