Absolutely spot on information. I've found the same results through trial and error. Waisted allot of components trying to achieve accuracy and reliability, while loading over pressure loadings. Backed the powder down and found the accuracy my rifle was capable of.
Thank you for the scripture backed sermon. It was so refreshing to hear truth instead of the current "feel good about yourself" words being put forth everywhere I turn. I pray you have a blessings every day.
I believe you are spot on - not only that but the reloading I have done confirms what you are saying. In addition that fastest node is rarely the widest or most accurate one. Can be frustrating sometimes when the load shoots best around 50,000 PSI, especially for those that fell into the 20 inch barrel camp and are handloading looking at book or box speeds measured with a 24 or 26. The timing of this video is also spot on - despite agreeing with everything you said, I have recently seen videos featuring the AB Analytics software package for PC, and from what i see in the videos ( I don't own the software myself) folks are coming to the conclusion that once your rig is under MOA you will gain more accuracy at long range from speeding up the boolot unless you can calculate wind to target better than +-3MPH than you will by cutting the group down to half MOA. What they claim the applications results are showing is the FPS increase helps counter mistakes you make calculating environmental variables. I've seen 2 now featuring this software package come to the same conclusions - and I'm still not sold on the concept. Curious to see what you think about this - its surely going to result in even more loaders pursuing that fastest node. Your solution for speed is exactly the one I did with a 22 inch barrel 7PRC and the Barnes solid boolots. The 168gr were moving too slow to expand well at the speeds it was going so i moved to the 145 grain to push it fast enough to expand consistently. It's a .284 solid so despite the weight they will expand to the same diameter under ideal velocity, and there is notably less recoil then there would be with a heavy boolot in an overpressure cartridge. Thanks again for the video- and the scripture!
Really good points made here, you have no way of knowing what the weather is going to do between the time that you load your brass to the time you send that shot down range. So it makes sense that you're not going to chase higher pressures and faster, speed, consistent pressure and speed would be a shooters best friend. Giving up just a little bit of velocity to have a more predictable Round makes plenty of sense.
I just finished watching the rest of the video. Great information. Thanks for sharing! I've been guilty of chasing speed. I have been thinking I need to reanalyze my load work. This just confirmed it. I appreciate your time.
Fantastic vid and information thank you. Some of the cheeky banter is great 😂. New sub and youre content is top notch. Shoot with too many guys who chase the velocity dragon, i set up a few lanes down 😅
I have found in many cases that backing pressure down a little bit increases accuracy. If you listen and watch, the rifle will TELL you what it wants. That includes. 22 long rifle. One of my rifles shoots much better with standard velocity rounds then some of the faster ones.
Just the first 10 minutes have been very informative and effectively validate some things I have been trying to confirm. I can’t wait to listen to the rest of it later.
Excellent advice/info. My friend and I that shoot together have always argued this. Top end within safe upper limit for respective cartridge is perfectly acceptable otherwise move up to a cartridge with higher case capacity. And always verifying if hotter temps than when did original load development, even with temp stable powders.
The phrase "Slow is pro, smooth is fast" is what I apply to many things including my shooting. This includes pistol and rifle shooting and reloading. I reload all my cartridges and never load past max. I've found that all my guns perform better below max load. I would rather go up in cartridge rather than run max or over max loads loads. It just makes sense to me and has proven to work.
My experience has been different. I've seen fewer competition shooters chasing velocity, at least not the sense you're talking about. I see way more hunters chasing velocity. At a sight in day at my local range, I've talked to hunters who look at the book loading, and load starting with max loading. You see exactly what you're talking about. Less accuracy, and repeatable performance. Handloading hunters, in the area I hunt, chase velocity as if they are channeling Weatherby. Worse, they don't just do it ti themselves, but they actually act as if someone not chasing velocity is somehow wrong. I have a .308 I use for whitetail. The handload I use is actually middle of the road. The area I hunt has zero shots that would go over 200yds. Most will be under 100yds. The load I worked up is more than adequate in power, but shoots awesome groups. Yet, some hunters question why I would do that? I've seen quite a few folks load 308, 30-06, 7mm Mag, etc. hot for the "extra power". Again, in an area where a 300yd shot would be considered a unicorn. Thanks for this video.
Great vedio you hit the nail on the head . I really appreciate your vedios they are very Informational and educational . I chase accuracy . My goals are 1 🕳 groups sometimes iam very successful . Iam a head & neck shooter when hunting so accuracy over speed. When I want more speed I go to longer barrels . Every rifle I owne has a barrel length 24-34 inches depending on the calibers. You inspired me to build my new 7mm Norma mag improved all iam waiting on is my barrel. I went with a 26in 9 twist brux . I chose that twist because my 7mag has a 9 twist and shoots the heavies very well . Any advice on the 7 Norma ? God-bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
Load development yields the best results when you use a powder that fills 95%-100% of the case (without projectile seating touching powder) that will yield the slowest acceptable speed for your projectile. This also comes with the benefit of longer barrel and case life as well as easier to see trail.
I've seen comments in forums about Greg being a know it all or unrealistic views on things. The fact is he knows without a shadow of a doubt what he's talking about and he 1000% can back up what he says. This is what makes him different than the keyboard experts out there. He's built a rifle for me and I can tell you first hand from a customer perspective, he is the genuine deal when he talks about certain details that you perhaps never thought of, there is a reason for it. Now I am only speaking for myself here. Guys often think they are the smartest one in the room when talking about their favorite topic in this case guns/reloading.....well brother let me tell you Greg here IS the actual smartest guy in the room. Have a conversation with him and I wager you will be impressed with his knowledge and ability and humbleness. He deserves far more credit than he ever gets from the community.
I have a question for you ? Iam a quarter bore nut always looking for something new . Would you build a 25/257 primal ? I know you have the 20-22-6mm primal family. Have you considered a 1/4 bore with all the new bullets on the market? Now you have 128 to 156gr i even seen a 163gr for 1/4 bore that have extreme ballistic coefficients B/C that blow a 6.5 away . Iam very interested in getting a 25/257 primal built . You build some of the most beautiful rifles on the market. I like the pride that goes into every build . God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
It would be interesting to shoot say 10 rounds of a cartridge normally loaded and another 10 rounds loaded to over pressure, then reload each group of cartridges to normal specs and see what the group difference is. Will the damaged brass shoot larger groups?
I admit that I don't understand or care much about the reloading and shooting, I shoot factory ammunition the little I shoot... BUT I like the sermon, or the talk about our travel here on Earth. In a weird way it doesn't feel like a lesson given by a teacher/preacher, it's just easy to comprehend. I do thank you for this, I know making videos takes resources but it gives much meaning watching 🙏🏼🫡😁!
Accuracy nodes very rarely line up with max pressure and max velocity. I am a believer in OBT and you can try to find a combination that hits a node at max velocity, but it isn't always possible.
Hey Greg, as usual another great video. Lots of useful information. I have a small favor to ask. Could you tell everyone why the groundhog and Prairie dog hunting is an absolute necessity. I've had people ask me questions like that and they genuinely did not know. Could you tell them what the danger of all those holes is about and why they have to be kept under control. It might open their eyes just a little bit.
Thats been my experience. Higher charge weights open up the group typically. Goes from smaller changes to oops that group blew up too much. Does 22bra have feeding issues like the 6bra or maybe its the dasher i have heard issues with?
Just had a question. Those NRL guys are saying to not have your cheek pressed very hard into the butt stock. It appears yours is pressed pretty hard. Does that have that much to do with accuracy? Is it just because they’re different schooling disciplines? Thank you in advance for for information!
No gusting wind in your universe? However, over-pressure ammunition is definitely not in mine. There are also considerations around cartridge-fill and percentage burn.
I guess you didn't tune into the latest from the ultimate reloader. Try north of 80000psi. I am a car engine guy. I know compression and fuel ignition. I try to think both engine compression and barrel pressure are doing the same thing. Driving a slug through a cylinder. Ya...sure, higher pressure equates to greater speed. But the room for error sky rockets. I'll take efficiency over peak pressure.
Running your cartridge on a higher hotter road also has a tendency to wear. Your gun out. Bastard will cost you more money. I try to run mine About to midge of the load, I get better control of the bullet and accuracy. I never understood why people wanna try to run things harder than it needs to be
@primalrights What is your take on ELR shooting, do you think that keeping the bullet supersonic at 1 mile or more justifies operating at max Sami pressure? I'm shooting 300 PRC 230gn A-tips
@@jmm6990 No, go to a bigger cartridge if you're running out of ballistic capability. Period. Go to a 300 Norma Improved. If that won't cut it, go to a cheytac bolt face.
It's very important what you stressed about Jesus Christ being the only way to God. Very few christians realize, that if Christ said so, then no other religion can bring salvation. Only His Church. And that means, that other religions are false. Yes, that includes contemporary judaism, islam, hindu etc. - because they all reject Christ, promising an "alternative" way to salvation. There is no alternative - Extra Ecclesia nulla salus. God speed!
I had to research this quite a bit. I could not find any instance of God, Jesus, or one of the Apostles using jokes against satan or any of the evil authority figures of the time. I looked hard, because I really wanted it to be OK to make fun of the authority figures on the other team. Consider this scripture: 1 Timothy 2 2 I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. 2 Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. A good way to not have a quiet and peaceful life, is to provoke those in authority... regardless of whether we agree with them or not. I could not find any supporting scripture to help us disrespect or make light of those evil people in authority. I also can't find anything that expressly forbids using disrespect in comedy toward leaders, but one doesn't have to confer with the spirit very long to determine the safest way forward. I find it important not to flirt with the devil in this way. I'd rather take the route that I'm feeling is having me walk close to Jesus, and when Jesus was dealing with the devil tempting him... he did not mock or joke about it. These people on the other team are evil, and I won't mock or joke about their evil either. My suggestion is to jump into the scripture yourself and read. I'm not the authority on these matters. God is, and he left a manual for you to follow.
F Class world champ won title on 28 fired brass. I know other competitors getting 100 firings. I do not know any F class/PRS/BR shooters throwing brass at 5 firings.... I do know some amateurs who do not anneal and who buy cheap brass who have to throw brass at 5 firings.
Absolutely spot on information. I've found the same results through trial and error. Waisted allot of components trying to achieve accuracy and reliability, while loading over pressure loadings. Backed the powder down and found the accuracy my rifle was capable of.
Thank you for the scripture backed sermon. It was so refreshing to hear truth instead of the current "feel good about yourself" words being put forth everywhere I turn.
I pray you have a blessings every day.
I believe you are spot on - not only that but the reloading I have done confirms what you are saying. In addition that fastest node is rarely the widest or most accurate one. Can be frustrating sometimes when the load shoots best around 50,000 PSI, especially for those that fell into the 20 inch barrel camp and are handloading looking at book or box speeds measured with a 24 or 26.
The timing of this video is also spot on - despite agreeing with everything you said, I have recently seen videos featuring the AB Analytics software package for PC, and from what i see in the videos ( I don't own the software myself) folks are coming to the conclusion that once your rig is under MOA you will gain more accuracy at long range from speeding up the boolot unless you can calculate wind to target better than +-3MPH than you will by cutting the group down to half MOA. What they claim the applications results are showing is the FPS increase helps counter mistakes you make calculating environmental variables. I've seen 2 now featuring this software package come to the same conclusions - and I'm still not sold on the concept.
Curious to see what you think about this - its surely going to result in even more loaders pursuing that fastest node.
Your solution for speed is exactly the one I did with a 22 inch barrel 7PRC and the Barnes solid boolots. The 168gr were moving too slow to expand well at the speeds it was going so i moved to the 145 grain to push it fast enough to expand consistently. It's a .284 solid so despite the weight they will expand to the same diameter under ideal velocity, and there is notably less recoil then there would be with a heavy boolot in an overpressure cartridge.
Thanks again for the video- and the scripture!
Really good points made here, you have no way of knowing what the weather is going to do between the time that you load your brass to the time you send that shot down range. So it makes sense that you're not going to chase higher pressures and faster, speed, consistent pressure and speed would be a shooters best friend. Giving up just a little bit of velocity to have a more predictable Round makes plenty of sense.
I just finished watching the rest of the video. Great information. Thanks for sharing! I've been guilty of chasing speed. I have been thinking I need to reanalyze my load work. This just confirmed it. I appreciate your time.
Thanks again. Not many will preach the truth now
Fantastic vid and information thank you. Some of the cheeky banter is great 😂.
New sub and youre content is top notch.
Shoot with too many guys who chase the velocity dragon, i set up a few lanes down 😅
I have found in many cases that backing pressure down a little bit increases accuracy.
If you listen and watch, the rifle will TELL you what it wants.
That includes. 22 long rifle. One of my rifles shoots much better with standard velocity rounds then some of the faster ones.
Just the first 10 minutes have been very informative and effectively validate some things I have been trying to confirm. I can’t wait to listen to the rest of it later.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent advice/info. My friend and I that shoot together have always argued this. Top end within safe upper limit for respective cartridge is perfectly acceptable otherwise move up to a cartridge with higher case capacity. And always verifying if hotter temps than when did original load development, even with temp stable powders.
Very sensible advice.
Amen brother!
Thanks for the message and content. If you focus on obeying the two most important commands, then everything else will naturally fall into place. 👍
The phrase "Slow is pro, smooth is fast" is what I apply to many things including my shooting. This includes pistol and rifle shooting and reloading. I reload all my cartridges and never load past max. I've found that all my guns perform better below max load. I would rather go up in cartridge rather than run max or over max loads loads. It just makes sense to me and has proven to work.
My experience has been different. I've seen fewer competition shooters chasing velocity, at least not the sense you're talking about. I see way more hunters chasing velocity. At a sight in day at my local range, I've talked to hunters who look at the book loading, and load starting with max loading. You see exactly what you're talking about. Less accuracy, and repeatable performance. Handloading hunters, in the area I hunt, chase velocity as if they are channeling Weatherby.
Worse, they don't just do it ti themselves, but they actually act as if someone not chasing velocity is somehow wrong. I have a .308 I use for whitetail. The handload I use is actually middle of the road. The area I hunt has zero shots that would go over 200yds. Most will be under 100yds. The load I worked up is more than adequate in power, but shoots awesome groups. Yet, some hunters question why I would do that?
I've seen quite a few folks load 308, 30-06, 7mm Mag, etc. hot for the "extra power". Again, in an area where a 300yd shot would be considered a unicorn.
Thanks for this video.
God bless brother!
Great vedio you hit the nail on the head . I really appreciate your vedios they are very Informational and educational . I chase accuracy . My goals are 1 🕳 groups sometimes iam very successful . Iam a head & neck shooter when hunting so accuracy over speed. When I want more speed I go to longer barrels . Every rifle I owne has a barrel length 24-34 inches depending on the calibers. You inspired me to build my new 7mm Norma mag improved all iam waiting on is my barrel. I went with a 26in 9 twist brux . I chose that twist because my 7mag has a 9 twist and shoots the heavies very well . Any advice on the 7 Norma ? God-bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
Load development yields the best results when you use a powder that fills 95%-100% of the case (without projectile seating touching powder) that will yield the slowest acceptable speed for your projectile. This also comes with the benefit of longer barrel and case life as well as easier to see trail.
They are yes and amen in christ Jesus.
I've seen comments in forums about Greg being a know it all or unrealistic views on things. The fact is he knows without a shadow of a doubt what he's talking about and he 1000% can back up what he says. This is what makes him different than the keyboard experts out there. He's built a rifle for me and I can tell you first hand from a customer perspective, he is the genuine deal when he talks about certain details that you perhaps never thought of, there is a reason for it. Now I am only speaking for myself here. Guys often think they are the smartest one in the room when talking about their favorite topic in this case guns/reloading.....well brother let me tell you Greg here IS the actual smartest guy in the room. Have a conversation with him and I wager you will be impressed with his knowledge and ability and humbleness. He deserves far more credit than he ever gets from the community.
@@RimfireAddicted70 Wow… what a pleasant comment to wake up to! Thank you!
Thanks for the wisdom, both on firearms ballistics as well as from the Bible!
God bless you
I have a question for you ? Iam a quarter bore nut always looking for something new . Would you build a 25/257 primal ? I know you have the 20-22-6mm primal family. Have you considered a 1/4 bore with all the new bullets on the market? Now you have 128 to 156gr i even seen a 163gr for 1/4 bore that have extreme ballistic coefficients B/C that blow a 6.5 away . Iam very interested in getting a 25/257 primal built . You build some of the most beautiful rifles on the market. I like the pride that goes into every build . God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
Nice one....
Save your brass
Save you barrel..
😍
It would be interesting to shoot say 10 rounds of a cartridge normally loaded and another 10 rounds loaded to over pressure, then reload each group of cartridges to normal specs and see what the group difference is. Will the damaged brass shoot larger groups?
I admit that I don't understand or care much about the reloading and shooting, I shoot factory ammunition the little I shoot... BUT
I like the sermon, or the talk about our travel here on Earth. In a weird way it doesn't feel like a lesson given by a teacher/preacher, it's just easy to comprehend. I do thank you for this, I know making videos takes resources but it gives much meaning watching 🙏🏼🫡😁!
Great video. I always have issues figuring out the down hill shooting
Does the bolt lift difference on fired vs non fired effort change with a 60deg bolt
Sir, are you referencing the “unsafe” level as, the book listed max charge? Or “unsafe” as above that.
Accuracy nodes very rarely line up with max pressure and max velocity. I am a believer in OBT and you can try to find a combination that hits a node at max velocity, but it isn't always possible.
Hey Greg, as usual another great video. Lots of useful information.
I have a small favor to ask. Could you tell everyone why the groundhog and Prairie dog hunting is an absolute necessity. I've had people ask me questions like that and they genuinely did not know. Could you tell them what the danger of all those holes is about and why they have to be kept under control. It might open their eyes just a little bit.
@@CB-68-westcreations I have an entire video on that. Most destructive force in the west, I think it’s called. Maybe I’ll do another one.
It's the same as anything else... you can only focus so much on one aspect so much, before it becomes an insurmountable hindrance.
There are tears in my eyes, your a very nice person
When you use MIL do you messure distanse in Meter?
In that case you can use formula ”distans = targetsize/mil” 1000m=1000mm/1Mil
Thats been my experience. Higher charge weights open up the group typically.
Goes from smaller changes to oops that group blew up too much.
Does 22bra have feeding issues like the 6bra or maybe its the dasher i have heard issues with?
Our magazine kits fix all of that.
My eyelids hurt from the tape, but it was very interesting 😅
@@Greyzonecompliant 🤣😆
Thanks for the info
Just had a question. Those NRL guys are saying to not have your cheek pressed very hard into the butt stock. It appears yours is pressed pretty hard. Does that have that much to do with accuracy? Is it just because they’re different schooling disciplines? Thank you in advance for for information!
Do you sell any riffles and load worked out for um??
@@hawaiianhunter yes
Great info and all rings true to me.
Can you dive into the rimfire world and get some truth out there ?
thanks
You're welcome!
Is it reasonable to stay below Hodgdon max? I stay within max but my speed is always higher than what they announce.
No gusting wind in your universe? However, over-pressure ammunition is definitely not in mine. There are also considerations around cartridge-fill and percentage burn.
I guess you didn't tune into the latest from the ultimate reloader. Try north of 80000psi.
I am a car engine guy. I know compression and fuel ignition.
I try to think both engine compression and barrel pressure are doing the same thing. Driving a slug through a cylinder. Ya...sure, higher pressure equates to greater speed. But the room for error sky rockets. I'll take efficiency over peak pressure.
Running your cartridge on a higher hotter road also has a tendency to wear. Your gun out. Bastard will cost you more money. I try to run mine About to midge of the load, I get better control of the bullet and accuracy. I never understood why people wanna try to run things harder than it needs to be
Are you absolutely sure that we can’t anneal the full case? I don’t see why not. I have built my own induction annealer and it should be easy to test.
@@jmm6990 I’m sure.
@primalrights What is your take on ELR shooting, do you think that keeping the bullet supersonic at 1 mile or more justifies operating at max Sami pressure? I'm shooting 300 PRC 230gn A-tips
@@jmm6990 No, go to a bigger cartridge if you're running out of ballistic capability. Period. Go to a 300 Norma Improved. If that won't cut it, go to a cheytac bolt face.
@@primalrightsI wish I had that budget but I live in Switzerland and here everything is extremely expensive…
Guide lines are there
It's very important what you stressed about Jesus Christ being the only way to God.
Very few christians realize, that if Christ said so, then no other religion can bring salvation. Only His Church.
And that means, that other religions are false. Yes, that includes contemporary judaism, islam, hindu etc. - because they all reject Christ, promising an "alternative" way to salvation.
There is no alternative - Extra Ecclesia nulla salus.
God speed!
Love ya ma
I watch Fox News Gutfeld. He makes jokes about members of the Democrat Party which I laugh at. Is that ungodly?
I had to research this quite a bit. I could not find any instance of God, Jesus, or one of the Apostles using jokes against satan or any of the evil authority figures of the time. I looked hard, because I really wanted it to be OK to make fun of the authority figures on the other team. Consider this scripture:
1 Timothy 2
2 I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. 2 Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
A good way to not have a quiet and peaceful life, is to provoke those in authority... regardless of whether we agree with them or not. I could not find any supporting scripture to help us disrespect or make light of those evil people in authority. I also can't find anything that expressly forbids using disrespect in comedy toward leaders, but one doesn't have to confer with the spirit very long to determine the safest way forward.
I find it important not to flirt with the devil in this way. I'd rather take the route that I'm feeling is having me walk close to Jesus, and when Jesus was dealing with the devil tempting him... he did not mock or joke about it. These people on the other team are evil, and I won't mock or joke about their evil either.
My suggestion is to jump into the scripture yourself and read. I'm not the authority on these matters. God is, and he left a manual for you to follow.
F Class world champ won title on 28 fired brass. I know other competitors getting 100 firings. I do not know any F class/PRS/BR shooters throwing brass at 5 firings.... I do know some amateurs who do not anneal and who buy cheap brass who have to throw brass at 5 firings.
Who did that?
My 600 yard fclass rifle, 260ai, has about 20 firings on lapua brass. Won a few club matches with it. 6br's go forever it seems.