SHOOTING THE SAME SPOT UNTIL IT GOES THROUGH | Bofors vs KV-1 Multiple Impact Armour Piercing Sim
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2022
- The KV-1 was one of the most heavily armoured tanks of early WW2, with the simulation showing how it would fare against a 40mm Bofors auto-cannon at close range.
The scenario represents an ambush of an early KV-1, where it is more likely that the sides are targeted than the front; the KV-1's side armour was also 75mm, so the simulation can also be viewed as a top down view of 3 shots impacting the side armour of a KV-1 turned at 30°. The shots impact at slightly different points to account for dispersion and recoil.
During WW2, the 40mm Bofors was used by various nations of both sides, including the Finnish, with multiple different rounds for the cannon. The round shown is the M81A1 APBC, as this had the most available information for it. It is modelled with increasing hardness towards the nose and shatters in accordance with British trials data of similar ammunition.
In reality there would be a larger gap between shots, but this was reduced to save simulation time. The shots in the simulation come to rest before the next impact, so a larger gap wouldnt have too much of an effect
Amazing thumbnail artwork from: Young_Wizard sketchfab.com/3d-models/kv-1-... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The rounds are impacting at slightly different points to account for dispersion and recoil, however there would be a much greater delay between impacts irl :)
Dispersion would be also higher. I am saying this as former BMP-2 motorifles platoon commander and operator of zu-23-2
lol dispersion and recoil were not accounted at all
there is no way round hit like this
@@soldierbreakneck771 Recoil? You can just increase the delay between shots.
Please do: GBU-57 MOP (30000lb bomb, 5300lb explosive), vs. the bunker from Top Gun Maverick (about 30ft of concrete). (just the penetration (an explosion like that will wipe out the bunker if it gets through...)
@@NK-qn6pq Be advised that you would need several supercomputers to calculate the penetration of 10(!!!!) meters of solid concrete.
"When violence doesn't work you are not using enough of it."
Proceed to mag dump an innocent KV1 with a whole battery of bofors 40mm
"Guns.And if it's not enough,use more guns"
Literally just McRee fanned a Bofors to a KV1
"More Dakka"
'When violence doesn't work you are not using enough of it." mfs when their dad beats them up every day but it still doesn't work
Can we have a Tiger II's 88mm shell (with penetration cap) hitting an IS-3's front hull at the tip where the plates merge? It would be interesting to see how the shell deforms
You mean where it hits the point of the pike shaped armor? That would be interesting to see the shell split into three (hopefully).
The Armor will divide the shell in 3 slices like a banana !
@@mr.waffentrager4400 in a real scenario the is-3 would be the thing splitting lmao
@@charlieyes4946 some 1945 models maybe!
That would be interesting.
Now what I’m curious about is if multiple rounds from something like an Oerlikon 20mm could eventually get through a plate like this.
Water will put a hole in a rock given enough time, I’m sure a 20mm can get through 75mm of steel given enough ammo and time lol
Can we get 22lr vs Maus
@@Tod357 Over 300.000 rounds I'm guessing
the problem to hit same spot, since tank usually moves and shoot back
@@tsugumorihoney2288 I posed the question purely as an interesting thought experiment that would be interesting to see simulated. Like no way it could ever happen in real life, but as a hypothetical…
I, for one, would love to see more of these multi-hit videos. I'd love to see common IFV cannon rounds vs other IFV armour, or even against MBT armour
Yes man, some 25mm APFSDS-T vs Chobam or other spaced armours.
perhaps a bradley vs t90
@@eli_grim0432 the t90 wasn't penned as far as I know, bradley used explosive ammo to blind its optics instead
Aged well
I think this is the first time I have ever seen armour fatiguing simulated. Really impressive, thank you.
Very interesting simulation. Stalinium may be strong, but the Bofors 40/60 meatball launcher can wear it down.
Stopping 2 40mm Bofors at the same spot is pretty impressive.
I'd love to see how many 40mm Bofors rounds it'd take to go through the front of the Churchill VII's 152mm of armour. Literally mroe than 3 times the diameter of the rounds (almost 4x)
Meatballs are Italian, originally Chinese. Get better material.
@@InspiriumESOO IKEA meatballs. IKEA is Swedish. Bofors is Swedish. Hence, it's an IKEA meatball launcher.
@@InspiriumESOO um, meatballs existed in Europe long before Europeans were familiar with the Chinese you are thinking of Pasta noodles. meatballs are literally just a wad of meat and bread crumbs.
Wow. I didn’t expect it to stop two shots at the same spot. I assume the L/70 Bofors would penetrate on the second shot.
It has over 100mm of armor,so technically you need 3 40mm shots to penetrate it,not to mention it's slightly sloped
@@vietnguyenhoang5795 What? The rounds don't have 40mm of penetration, they are 40mm in diameter.
@@vietnguyenhoang5795 additionally this is just the early version of KV-1 so it has just 75mm of armor, like the video says.
That's how kolobanov win !
@@dti1312 And you don't just add pen values up either. There's diminishing returns
Another simulation that I'd much like to see - and one that might be more relevant in current times - is the latest gen 40mm APFSDS fired out of an L/70 to the side armour (or possibly LFP) of something like a modernized T-72. Sort-of connects to some recent simulations as well!
That's something I'll be doing at some point :)
Watch this video on the cv9040
th-cam.com/video/gGj_ioyZaIk/w-d-xo.html
I must compliment the research you put into these simulations, bravo
you do really great work, thanks for making these cool animations!
Bro i been waiting for so long to see this kinda thing, like no one else has made a vid where the armor is already damaged
Wow! Awesome sim, thank you!
yes, this is what I have been waiting for, this is perfection
Can we see multiple 152mm rounds hitting something like a panzer 1 or Bob Semple in quick succession?
This is quite amazing! great job!
That was just, super cool dude. Thanks!
This looks like a before/after moment of their life for the tank crew.
So whats happening in the sim when it "deletes" material? Is it simplofying the parts into dispersed particles of velocity and force or does it still render them and just hides the view of pieces below a threshold of size?
That's still pretty impressive for a tank armor taking two shots at those velocity's.
Nice simulation! It would be cool to see a su100 ap shell against some panther or jagdpanther up armor and how it will behave!
The modern CV9040 still uses the 40mm bofors as its main armament, this time with apfsds rounds.
I was doing some stuff, on the IS-6, their is a trap shot right under the mantlet it ricocheted it straight into the 200mm front plate, the shell I used was the Tiger 2 H PzGr 39/43, the angles are
angle of attack on front- 67*
Heading angle 1*
The shell Richs off the mantle and goes into the plate,
Thanks for this!
I wonder what would be the result with a harder blend of steel, like a 500HB HSS rather than the usual rha ?
Netflix: are you still watching
Someones daughter:
Imagine If War thunder add this as a mechanic 💀💀
The R3 is just going to be more frustrating to deal with.
Yeah that's not going to be very fun when hitting the same spot is easy
What would the A10s gun do against armour? Both modern and the armour from when it was developed? Because the A10 is pretty useless against tanks and it has a pretty inflated kill rate.
"Nothing is bulletproof if you shoot it enough times." - Machinegunner
Along a similar line of thought, myself and I am sure many others would like to see the 75mm ARES cannon burst fire vs semi modern armor.
There is no information on the rod design afaik.
The thumbnail photo is ZiS-5.
Most of its frontal armor is over 100mm thick.
There werent any nice models/images of the basic version unfortunately...well spotted though
I would be interested in seeing the APFSDS round fired by the HSTV-L hitting the Upper front plate of an advanced Soviet tank (T-80U, T-90) several times in a row, because it was given a fast fire rate specifically to do what was shown in this video
Agreed
Maybe one day :)
though the dispersion at ranges tank fights usually occur would make hitting the exact same spot multiple times almost impossible
Except it is not.
@@spextahd5673
For Russian guns maybe
This would be the most dedicated finnish artilerist ever
Or at at least I assume the scenario is inspired from the Winter War, which had both Bofors and KV-1s
When you fail to penetrate the armor, you only give them a big knock to the tank crew
Hits like these were incredibly loud inside the vehicle, they would not be able to communicate under constant fire.
Let's also not forget the absolute moral damage something like this would cause when you see the dent in your tank becomming larger and large from something as small as an AA gun.
@@ZETH_27 yep, big knock to their head is pretty dangerous. Disturbing their focus and environmental awareness
I would love to see what the Bofors 40mm L/70 could do at a MBT or an APC/IFV/AFV from the latest 40 years, all directions and all types of ammunition.
HSTVL VS T72 repeated shot on the front plate please.
Now if only WT had this kind of armor simulation, armor fatigue is a very real thing they continue to ignore
I just imagine the server going 1000 degrees celsius trying to calculate every penetration at 3k+ battles at the same time
The server hamsters would get stroke and coma at the same time
@@commanderwayan we’ll call it comastroke and and of course don’t forget the part where it all bursts into flames
@@jnicholaswildcat absolutely!
@@commanderwayan can’t disagree though, that it would certainly make the game a lot more equal, especially against tanks that generally can’t be penned
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
And that’s why they come in 4 round clips
Any tank can be penetrated if you shoot enough shells into it
Can you do the same with a cal.50 and a smaller plate ? Im curious if enough heavy machine gun fire would do some damage
That’s some A10 Warthog tier firerate
Makes me wonder about multiple hits from M4 Sherman's 75mm gun on, say, a Tiger II or JagdTiger.
Propably around 5, since large part of the round will be deflected
Even with HE alone there were cases of Panther and Tiger crews bailing out and bleeding from the ears
@@f00koff42 It didn't penetrate the armor,the shockwave made their ears bleed.
Probably gonna take about 2 or 3 shots with the Tiger,since its armor is unsloped.For the Jadgtiger,I think you must take at least 7 shots on the same spot,the thing was tankier with sloped armor
@@vietnguyenhoang5795 he is talking about tiger 2 not tiger 1
Fun fact Bofors shot down a couple of Jets in the 80s. Not bad for a ww2 AA weapon system.
Incredible
Do more like this
That must have been a mind-blowing experience for the driver
could you do one with 20mm/50cal/small arm rounds in the same vein? i.e. hitting the same spot over and over - I’ve always been curious as to how many rounds it’d take to wear armor like that down
You should one with the Tunguska vs the Abrams.
There are actually weapon systems that can fire rounds at that density now :)
I had a vehicle design using Alloyed aluminum at 100mm thick every angle with a 10 mm thick spall liner made of steel. Perhaps you can simulate what several 20MM could do? Or even 40s?
not sure the alloy yet…
Can we get this with 75mm APCBC vs a King Tiger upper glacis?
could you do sturmtiger vs maus ufp? it would settle a war thunder debate i've been having, I personally think it would still blow through.
Please do one of Bismarck's belt armor vs 14 inch shells from prince of Wales and 16 inch from Rodney
"Finally some delicious f*cking food" -Gordon Ramsey watching this
would love to see this done with german AA guns vs various tanks
Multiple Tiger shots vs the Abrams turret
Even .22 lr from American 180 can piercing armor just by its sheer numbers of bullet downrange so no surprise result
Man they needed a 3rd round to pen it
Что, все 20мм снаряды - в одну точку? Фантастика!
Не 20мм а 40мм и в упор это вполне возможно.
Hey I saw your video on telescoping apfsds. Is there a way to fill the cavity of said she'll with some kind of explosive?
The cavity of the shell is filled with the extending portion of the rod until it is fired, so it only becomes a cavity after leaving the muzzle. Unless you've got some really fast combat engineers who can fill it up mid flight, there's no way to add explosive filler to it. Even if it was filled, as the rod penetrates, it is eroded away, so your filler would never get the chance to detonate since it would be destroyed or dispersed in the act of penetrating the armor.
@@resurgam_b7 not if there were a penetrator cap that was long enough to withstand disintegration until the rest of the shell catches up.
also since it's a discarding sabot shell, the discarding pieces could be placed around the shell in such a way that it remains partially extended until it leaves the barrel
Finally explains how the Polish TKS was able to beat my Pz IIIe side armor in Steel Panthers all those years ago. Dirty little tankettes, death spewing lunchbox on tracks
I doubt that was modeled in the game. That would need way to much computing power.
Could you do 6pdr ADPS fired from a Cromwell tank and have it impact the upper front plate of a Panther tank?
Can you do the same again but instead with the 5 cm Flak 41 L/67 fireing the 5 cm Pzgr 42 2,23 kg at 840m/s?
You know I love the slow mo but I would actually enjoy one of the angles at full speed just to see how fast the shrapnel would be going
What is the physics engine that is used for this?
Would the heating from the impacts soften the armor in a significant way? There's a lot of energy getting dispersed in that metal, so it must get somewhat softer, (and about 0.5 sec between hits for a 40mm is not enough for it to cool down), but I'm not sure by how much. In any case, getting 3 shots that close to eachother in combat situation is pretty improbable. Still interesting tho.
Heating is definitely present, but it is likely not a particularly large factor of penetration. At such high velocities, the line between heat and kinetic energy is rather blurry since the heat energy is traveling through the armor material slower than the projectile at the time of impact. It would be kind of like smashing an ice cube with a red hot hammer. Sure, the hammer is red hot and could melt the ice, but it's also a hammer, so the ice gets scattered all over the room before any melting actually takes place. An armor plate would almost certainly be mechanically destroyed before it could absorb enough thermal energy to start negatively impacting the steel's integrity.
I'd say it's quite possible, due to the fire rate of the L60 and poor visibility of the tank crew, it would be impossible to locate where they were being fired upon and reposition and return fire before the armor was broken through.
Localized heating is exactly why we see steel armor fail the way they did.
In general, 2 caliber distance away from point of impact is enough to be consider undamaged armor.
The L70 version has APFSDS available...I wonder how this would work vs Modern armour
It would crack like an Egg, given enough Velocity and Mass hitting it
are the little red dots soposto be shrapnel
Gaijian aint ready for this
I have a kind of related question to all of this. What was done to mend the damage to a tank's armor? For example a shell hit your tank but bounced off, leaving a chunk missing in your front. How would you repair that kind of damage?
Most I have seen and read have just been to ignore dents. Maybe place applique armor over it or fill it if its such a concern. If a penetration happened, it gets plugged with a filler material. its going to be a weak spot but its so small its unlikely to get bit twice. If the entire plate failed, odds are your tank is totaled due to it also serving as a structural component. But if its still otherwise fine, I guess you can cut the plate and weld a new one on. Once again, worse than the original. Or scrap it and cannibalize it for spare parts.
Modern tanks can get its composite inserts replaced if its not a full penetration.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 Thank you so much for such an extensive answer! :)
Depends on the construction and the nature of the damage, if it was an earlier riveted-plate design with the armour riveted onto an underlying chassis and that chassis wasn't busted you could drill all the rivets out and replace the entire plate, or if it was an all welded hull and the surrounding hull plates weren't wrecked by the same damage you could possibly cut the busted of the plates out and replace them by welding in a new one but that kind of cutting, welding and manipulating the hull would require dedicated equipment and repair crews and might require sending the hull back to the factory or a better equipped repair facility. If the integrity of the plate and it's welds are mostly fine and the missing armour material isn't part of a mount for some equipment and the back-face deformation isn't displacing internal equipment or jamming a hatch or door shut then you could probably just add some filler or cover it with applique to improve crew morale as mentioned above, and as mentioned above if the plates have torn at the welded joints the structural integrity of the chassis might be fucked. It really depends on where, what and how. A practically speaking a relatively small non-penetrating dent displacing armour material enough to jam the driver's hatch shut or damaging the mount for an optical sight or periscope might be more of a problem practically than a small penetration
interesting, you could probably just shoot at the turrent of the KV1
jam the turret ring,
deform the gun barrel
and spall it
Could you please do Objekt 279 vs Conqueror Mk.2 from 1000 meters. The Conqueror should be able to pen it with its APDS
Newest round in Sweden for the cannon has a sabo round…
if swedes upscaled the the german ammo for the german 38mm gun then the penetration would have been higher 82mm+ - the finnish homemade rounds were about 60mm - I assume with a proper shell one would go 90+
"If you cant penetrate the armor you Hammer It"
next vid idea:
as much 9mm as you can, against front hull plate of tiger!
Warthunder: I’ll ignore that
when you gotta get your boys to help
How about 20mm KwK 30 vs T-34/76 1941 turret side?
Just remember, each red particle is equal to one medium buckshot pellet!
Now try with 40mm Bofors firing APFSDS
Full auto assault tank? The ATF gonna be so mad when they find out
Why all the autocannons were only AA (except several 20 mm variants)? As I see, 3 rounds of the 40 mm canon penetrates armor of the best armored tank without problems.
Because a single round from a 57mm+ gun can do the same.
С 50-ти метров три снаряда уложили в окружность 20 мм?
Armor and shell deformation are wonderful if only gaijin knew how armor and rounds work and deform ghpc has it down
Can we have a 155m from a paladin or towed howitzer directly shooting a t90
40mm or 57mm 3P round being fired in SAP mode penetration test vid maybe?
How do you sneak up to 50 meters of a KV-1?
In a test environment.
Great video! What is the software used in this simulation?
Thanks, its ansys :)
I don't really see these as a practical demonstration. A Bofors firing horizontally would be putting every follow up shot either into the treetops or otherwise never be back to hitting the same point of aim. I think I read of a PnzIII in Barbarossa that wasn't spotted by an oblivious KVI and eventually managed this trick after dozens of shots at close range.
The driver:👀👄👀
Nice grouping.
Now that would be a scuffed new feature in war thunder
This is something a lot of wargamers have no concept of, "Aha, at 500m, the Tank X's round will only go through Y millimeters of armor, therefore Tank Z is impervious!" Like, a Sherman shooting a Tiger's front plate will likely go through after 2-3 rounds hitting right next to eachother. Rounds don't just bounce off and do 0 damage unless they're incredibly small (relative to the armor) or hitting at such an angle they can't actually continue to penetrate.
It's because tracking the damage done to every point of tank's surface in feasible only in a virtual environment and it requires a lot of resources (memory), which is why until now no game developer, that I know of, bothered with implementing such mechanic. Better use those resources to implement more detailed tank models or bigger maps.
@@peasant8246 Maybe 10 years later they will
Quick question:Are 40mm shells on the AC-130's Bofors loaded manually or with autoloaders?Dont' reckon a modern thing would fit in that cannon for long
They are autoloaded
it´s full auto as Bofors 40mm L/60 is a Anti aircraft gun.
I believe they are added to the magazine/feed chute in 4 round clips and then the gun automatically loads and fires them.
from what i have seen in videos of crews operating one in a AC-130. they are using the old school manual 5 round clip loading. Using gravity to feed the gun. Think they went that route to save on weight not to mention they fire the gun only in a few bursts so fully automatic loading is not needed in the first place. Think the first autoloaded gun they have is the 25mm chaingun
@@chris-zt7eo They were not autoloaded. They were manually loaded into the gun by the gunners(in reality loaders) via clips, just like how they were loaded in the 40s on naval ships.
Well I voted 2, so I'm going to call it a victory
I was basing my theory based on the 2 pounder used in the early War on British AFVs
Can someone tell me the software that is used?
Sorry if it's a stupid comment but what if they just use the 40mm auto cannon, mount it in a heavy tank chassis or whatever, give it a turret and treat it like a main battle tank? If they encounter another tank just keep shooting at the same spot until it penetrates?
Most engagements happen at >1km, so hitting the same spot is virtually impossible
Tanks aren't always used to destroy other tanks. Tanks in ww2 were used for clearing line for infantry to move in, destroy pillboxes and fortifications. 40mm HE is not enough for destroying pillboxes and fortifications
they tried that but not with a heavy tank, the Nimrod 40M is a good example as it was intended to be a general purpose tank for engaging other tanks, infantry and aircraft but the penetration was deemed too poor to reliably take out anything other than light tanks from a distance greater than around 400 meters which is suicidal close for engaging a medium or heavy tank.
Also Heavy tanks were designed to engaged defensive positions typically and as such they wanted as large of a gun caliber as possible for the intended role which is why you typically saw something 75mm or larger on heavy tanks. prime examples being 122 and 152 mm guns on the soviet assault guns and heavy tanks. the US played with the idea of using 105mm and 155mm guns on top of the 90mm guns. The Germans were mostly concerned with dealing with other tanks and the 88mm was treated like it was magic so they stuck with that and the British would never really use anything bigger than about 94mm on a tank during ww2.
Such a missed opportunity. To my knowledge the only country to use a tank armed with a bofors during world war 2 was Finland. They buildt and uses 6 L-62 "Ant II".
I am convinced that if a tank would have been equipped with a 40mm bofors it would have been an extremely usefull multiroll vehicle, especialy at the start of the war.
Hungary had their Nimrod AA-tank. It was very similar than Anti II.