The freedomness of Pat's playing is more result of his musical experience. He invented his personal musical language and understanding of harmony. So it is difficult to explain Pat's lines using common language of chords and scales.
I play saxophone as well as guitar and it seems Pat Metheny thinks more like a saxophonist than a guitarist at times. "Turnaround" on 80/81 is to my mind a really great example of this approach by Pat. Great channel!
PM will be revered long into the future as an example of what is possible when early focus meets ability meets unending compulsive productivity meets boldness and humility while creating something new that always attempts to respect the depth of music. You can’t fake this. It takes a level of commitment and organization and responsibility that few people have chosen. Your excellent video mines a slice of his thing that can assist future guitarists develop a bit faster and deeper. But, as you know, taking these many many awesome ideas and making them so thoroughly your own such that you can play is the long journey of …applied honor? Applying oneself, once informed, to the work of attempting to honor music.
@@JensLarsen Johnny Smith perhaps, something from the classic Moonlight in Vermont album, lush chord melody arrangements on that. I know Larry Carlton said that album was a huge influence on him when he got into jazz.
Not sure if you have covered John Abercrombie yet...I could of course do a search ;-) I am currently enjoying his duet with Ralph Towner called Parasol (1976) from the album Sargasso Sea.
No Worries! Both are good examples. I am not sure I want to go through an entire chord melody in a lesson like this, but who knows. I am looking for something to do for Abercrombie for sure!
I've been a pm follower from the very beginning , Garry Burton, ECM . HIs years playing fusion around the world appealed to Joe public.When he played England still life period he was a huge success, inbetween all the popular pieces he played The calling from his rejoice album , this met a negative reaction. Your educational lesson is an example of the fringe music he plays. Of course he is a one off genius, but now his appeal is now fading . He does not want to play phase dance every day. He has not released anything new for some time but when he does I will buy it. He still thrills me.
Thanks Jens. The cool thing for me is to gain insight into how other players "think" music. Sometimes it's so foreign to the way I "think" music. I love the way you help expand my musical "thinking"
A cool piece, I remember what I was trying to play when this album came out and thinking there was some accessible transition material from both artists. Woefully naive on my part yet it gave me the energy to keep moving forward. Another great road map with some very practical commentary, as usual. Thanks...!
Thanks a whole lot for a video on Metheny again, Jens. Dude's awesome. Have you ever considered a video on Nelson Veras or Messiaen modes, and what you can do with them? The Holdsworth's strong in me.
Glad you like it! I was planning to do a video on Messiaen modes at some point (or it is on the list) I am not sure about Nelson Veras, I love his music but there is very little of it available and I am not sure I would focus on that aspect to be honest? That guys is super melodic no matter what scale he uses
Thank you very much! I am glad you found it useful! If you have any suggestions for topics or things you are looking for the feel free to let me know 👍
Awesome once more Jens. I am already in Patreon, but don't have Facebook. Could we get the pdf from this lesson uploaded in the Patreon page also? Can you do more on Pat Metheny? Thanks for this.
Totally don't get people who say he is somehow 'soulless', or 'too notey'. I mean I can see that yes, he does use a lot of notes in this solo, but this is pure stream-of-consciousness improvising, with a clear direction and intensity from the start! Whether you use 3 notes or 3000 we should all strive for this kind of freedom.
Thank you very much! I am glad you found it useful! If you have any suggestions for topics or things you are looking for the feel free to let me know 👍
Thank you very much! I am glad you found it useful! If you have any suggestions for topics or things you are looking for the feel free to let me know 👍
Great lesson Jen's.but Pat's style for me is so very complex.That is why he is so unique. Me,Joe Pass buff.Anything later on featuring Joe's style,especially chord/ melody?
Thanks! I will probably do more on Joe Pass along the way. Not sure if I really want to focus on chord melody to be honest. Did you check the two I already did? One is chord melody: th-cam.com/video/u6WX2gWmCb0/w-d-xo.html
Haha! That's true, I also got it when it came out. At the time I sometimes found it difficult to tell Sco from Metheny 😄 I don't seem to have that anymore...
PM is sometimes dismissed as too notey, as being someone who rushes through his solos. A teacher told me that he believes many intermediate students have picked up bad habits from PM, and that their solos are modeled too closely on Metheny licks. This teacher does not dismiss PM as an artist but believes that Metheny often verges into aimless noodling.
I think the teacher’s point was that the aspects of PM’s playing that are easiest to imitate are misapplied by intermediate players, not that they are necessarily faults when PM does them. For example, PM’s chromaticism in the hands of an imitator can just sound wrong, with few chord tones in the chromatic passage on the beat.
Ok. That was not how I understood your original comment. But surely this goes for everyone? Imagine somebody trying to badly imitate Scofields timing or a really badly timed Bill Frisell with lots of wrong notes 😄
That 'signature' lick @4:00 is a lick I know he got from Wes, it doesn't matter how many times Pat does it, in my mind, I hear Wes when I hear that lick, not Pat. (Disclaimer...am a fan of both)
Ok. Interesting I really hear it as a Metheny Lick. Do you have a spot where Wes uses it? 🙂 Would be really cool to hear that, as I am also a fan of both
@@JensLarsen Wes plays that lick twice in his Days of Wine and Roses solo. You can hear it @ the 2 minute mark, and the 2 minute 38 mark of the studio recording.
great lesson, thanks. I don't get the explanation at 9.37...Cm7 replaced with Gb7 and used material from Emaj7...for me hard to see connection between those three..possible to explain? thank you!
Really? Cm7 F7 turned into Gb7 F7? That's similar to a minor blues. And also very close to how he changes it to a Cø in one of the other examples. The maj7 arpeggio from the b7 is a fairly standard arpeggio to use on a dominant.
If I'm not mistaken (and I could easily be, so correct me if I'm wrong, Jens) I believe it is a tritone substitution for the ii chord. Gb is a tritone away from C, so Gb7 would substitute Cmin7 and approach the F chord (or V chord) chromatically. Also, I think that when Jens says Emaj7, he is thinking E Lydian. If you think of Emaj7 as a I chord it won't make sense because of its 4th degree, A natural.
Hello, here my view : tritone substitution (as dominant of dominant) . Regarding the Emaj7 it is just the diatonic arpeggio on 7th. so 'automatically' has a lydian sound..
@@JensLarsen the question is then whether playing outside is just playing half step away from the fully inside notes or if it's more creative than that or both :D.
@@JensLarsen Hi Jens, That is just one part of the song..it gets complex with altered bass chords which are all over the place and plus that song has a great melody too!
Dunno, i dont really like PM style, i like beautiful melodies and phrasing, musicians like Wes, Miles, Dexter Gordon. Fuck, even rock guitarists like David Gilmour. PM sounds often like a sophisticated Jazz shredder
I am not a jazz guitarist in the slightest . I'm just a rock guy ( More alternative ) who knows the usual scales but what I have noticed about Jazz , which I am starting to get into is that they just play what ever they want . You throw in a few chromatics and now it sounds like jazz . Its as if all the wrong notes make it Jazz .
I don't resonate with Metheny's guitar style, it seems like waffling to me, it is obviously skilled but the cadences don't interest me-i liked his work with Joni Mitchell, not so much his extended instrumentals
The freedom Pat has while playing this solo, both in terms of melody and rhythm really blows my mind. What do you think?
The freedomness of Pat's playing is more result of his musical experience. He invented his personal musical language and understanding of harmony. So it is difficult to explain Pat's lines using common language of chords and scales.
@@MrSparrow55 is this true? I only ask because I'm just getting into Pat Metheny and it would suck if it's not understandable!
I play saxophone as well as guitar and it seems Pat Metheny thinks more like a saxophonist than a guitarist at times. "Turnaround" on 80/81 is to my mind a really great example of this approach by Pat. Great channel!
What's the title of this song?
@@user-ex8qv3qj5f it is "you speak my language" of the Scofield/Metheny album
Pat is my favorite improviser. Bright Size Life is a masterpiece.
He certainly is! 🙂
PM will be revered long into the future as an example of what is possible when early focus meets ability meets unending compulsive productivity meets boldness and humility while creating something new that always attempts to respect the depth of music. You can’t fake this. It takes a level of commitment and organization and responsibility that few people have chosen.
Your excellent video mines a slice of his thing that can assist future guitarists develop a bit faster and deeper. But, as you know, taking these many many awesome ideas and making them so thoroughly your own such that you can play is the long journey of …applied honor? Applying oneself, once informed, to the work of attempting to honor music.
That album “I can see your house from here” is a classic I’m not a real PM fan but they both are just crushing it on that vinyl.
I think most of the small group metheny stuff is really fantastic! Check out Michael Breckers "Time is of the Essence" album!
I watched and listened to a ton of Metheny and aside from his expressive freedom, he doesn’t even look 👀 (eyes closed) when he’s improvising!
I am always amazed by how Pat has his thumb wrapped around the top of the neck. It’s weird, but it certainly doesn’t slow him down.
Larsen on Metheny over coffee. Hello Saturday morning. Tasty analysis!
Thank you! Hope you it all goes down well! 🙂 Who should be next?
@@JensLarsen Johnny Smith perhaps, something from the classic Moonlight in Vermont album, lush chord melody arrangements on that. I know Larry Carlton said that album was a huge influence on him when he got into jazz.
Not sure if you have covered John Abercrombie yet...I could of course do a search ;-) I am currently enjoying his duet with Ralph Towner called Parasol (1976) from the album Sargasso Sea.
Oh, sorry you were talking to Einglert. Love Abercrombie and mentioned him a few weeks back, whatever. :-)
No Worries! Both are good examples. I am not sure I want to go through an entire chord melody in a lesson like this, but who knows. I am looking for something to do for Abercrombie for sure!
I've been a pm follower from the very beginning , Garry Burton, ECM . HIs years playing fusion around the world appealed to Joe public.When he played England still life period he was a huge success, inbetween all the popular pieces he played The calling from his rejoice album , this met a negative reaction. Your educational lesson is an example of the fringe music he plays. Of course he is a one off genius, but now his appeal is now fading . He does not want to play phase dance every day. He has not released anything new for some time but when he does I will buy it. He still thrills me.
Thanks Ian! That's really nice to hear for me and actually I am sure Pat would appreciate it too!
Thanks Jens. The cool thing for me is to gain insight into how other players "think" music. Sometimes it's so foreign to the way I "think" music. I love the way you help expand my musical "thinking"
Thank you Jume! That's a great way of putting it , and indeed what I find fun about investigating these solos :)
Nice lesson_ even at slow speed quite difficult licks but super cool ones !!
They were indeed quite difficult 😄 But they are great!
A cool piece, I remember what I was trying to play when this album came out and thinking there was some accessible transition material from both artists. Woefully naive on my part yet it gave me the energy to keep moving forward. Another great road map with some very practical commentary, as usual. Thanks...!
Glad you like it Donald! 🙂
Thanks a whole lot for a video on Metheny again, Jens. Dude's awesome. Have you ever considered a video on Nelson Veras or Messiaen modes, and what you can do with them? The Holdsworth's strong in me.
Glad you like it! I was planning to do a video on Messiaen modes at some point (or it is on the list) I am not sure about Nelson Veras, I love his music but there is very little of it available and I am not sure I would focus on that aspect to be honest?
That guys is super melodic no matter what scale he uses
I was praying for this video to come!!!
I am glad you like it! What more should I do? 🙂
@@JensLarsen Maybe fast bebop passing licks and how to develop technical skill to play them.
Well, I do have a video coming up on Economy picking and how I use it, that is at least an aspect or a technique?
Thanks for making this!!You are so Kind!
Thank you very much! I am glad you found it useful! If you have any suggestions for topics or things you are looking for the feel free to let me know 👍
Fabulous.
Thank you 👍🙂
Awesome once more Jens. I am already in Patreon, but don't have Facebook. Could we get the pdf from this lesson uploaded in the Patreon page also? Can you do more on Pat Metheny?
Thanks for this.
I send you a message on Patreon :)
Totally don't get people who say he is somehow 'soulless', or 'too notey'. I mean I can see that yes, he does use a lot of notes in this solo, but this is pure stream-of-consciousness improvising, with a clear direction and intensity from the start! Whether you use 3 notes or 3000 we should all strive for this kind of freedom.
Me neither, but it is hard to really discuss taste.
I had one guy describe his playing as a phrasing nightmare 😄 Never heard him play though so...
Jens Larsen Thanks for the videos man. I’m a jazz guitarist in London so if you’re ever across the pond shout and we’ll play!
Thanks Cameron! I will certainly do so :)
Thanks for sharing this video!
Thank you very much! I am glad you found it useful! If you have any suggestions for topics or things you are looking for the feel free to let me know 👍
@@JensLarsen
Maybe you could talk about the solo in the tune "Upside Downside" by Mike Stern
Great video Thanks.
Thank you very much! I am glad you found it useful! If you have any suggestions for topics or things you are looking for the feel free to let me know 👍
very interesting video. metheny rules. you explain very well. thx.
Great lesson Jen's.but Pat's style for me is so very complex.That is why he is so unique. Me,Joe Pass buff.Anything later on featuring Joe's style,especially chord/ melody?
Thanks! I will probably do more on Joe Pass along the way. Not sure if I really want to focus on chord melody to be honest. Did you check the two I already did? One is chord melody: th-cam.com/video/u6WX2gWmCb0/w-d-xo.html
@@JensLarsen Thanks.
Great analysis !
Thanks Jesus! :) Who should be next?
@@JensLarsen Kenny Burrell?
Wow, that album is over 20 years old. I remember buying it and annoying everyone with it endlessly.
Haha! That's true, I also got it when it came out. At the time I sometimes found it difficult to tell Sco from Metheny 😄 I don't seem to have that anymore...
That is freedom !!!!!!
It certainly is :)
PM is sometimes dismissed as too notey, as being someone who rushes through his solos. A teacher told me that he believes many intermediate students have picked up bad habits from PM, and that their solos are modeled too closely on Metheny licks. This teacher does not dismiss PM as an artist but believes that Metheny often verges into aimless noodling.
People have different tastes. Sounds like your teacher really doesn't like Metheny 🙂
@@JensLarsen Well said.
I think the teacher’s point was that the aspects of PM’s playing that are easiest to imitate are misapplied by intermediate players, not that they are necessarily faults when PM does them. For example, PM’s chromaticism in the hands of an imitator can just sound wrong, with few chord tones in the chromatic passage on the beat.
Ok. That was not how I understood your original comment. But surely this goes for everyone? Imagine somebody trying to badly imitate Scofields timing or a really badly timed Bill Frisell with lots of wrong notes 😄
Must be a 7th & 3rd target fanatic. @@dbminor9694
I don't use Facebook but would love to donate for this lesson.
Help.
You don't need to be on Facebook to join Patreon? Maybe go to my website, find my email and send me an email?
That 'signature' lick @4:00 is a lick I know he got from Wes, it doesn't matter how many times Pat does it, in my mind, I hear Wes when I hear that lick, not Pat. (Disclaimer...am a fan of both)
Ok. Interesting I really hear it as a Metheny Lick. Do you have a spot where Wes uses it? 🙂 Would be really cool to hear that, as I am also a fan of both
@@JensLarsen Wes plays that lick twice in his Days of Wine and Roses solo. You can hear it @ the 2 minute mark, and the 2 minute 38 mark of the studio recording.
Cool! Never thought about that, but I also never learned that solo 🙂
great lesson, thanks. I don't get the explanation at 9.37...Cm7 replaced with Gb7 and used material from Emaj7...for me hard to see connection between those three..possible to explain? thank you!
Really? Cm7 F7 turned into Gb7 F7? That's similar to a minor blues. And also very close to how he changes it to a Cø in one of the other examples.
The maj7 arpeggio from the b7 is a fairly standard arpeggio to use on a dominant.
thanks so much...now it is very clear ... my basic big mistake was not to consider the Cm7 in the context .. thanks Mr. Jens!
No worries 🙂
If I'm not mistaken (and I could easily be, so correct me if I'm wrong, Jens) I believe it is a tritone substitution for the ii chord. Gb is a tritone away from C, so Gb7 would substitute Cmin7 and approach the F chord (or V chord) chromatically. Also, I think that when Jens says Emaj7, he is thinking E Lydian. If you think of Emaj7 as a I chord it won't make sense because of its 4th degree, A natural.
Hello, here my view : tritone substitution (as dominant of dominant) . Regarding the Emaj7 it is just the diatonic arpeggio on 7th. so 'automatically' has a lydian sound..
In the ending, how does he get away with playing E and B on a Cm7? That's crazy!!
Or outside?
@@JensLarsen the question is then whether playing outside is just playing half step away from the fully inside notes or if it's more creative than that or both :D.
Well, that is somewhat clear from the context when you look beyond those two notes
Hi Jens, Loved this video! It would be great if you could analyze the chord progression of *Zhivago* by Kurt Rosenwinkel.
Thanks! Isn't that just a lot of Ebm then F major and then back?
I probably want to analyze more famous songs in videos than that 🙂
@@JensLarsen Hi Jens, That is just one part of the song..it gets complex with altered bass chords which are all over the place and plus that song has a great melody too!
I think you just need to google a better transcription of it :)
Dunno, i dont really like PM style, i like beautiful melodies and phrasing, musicians like Wes, Miles, Dexter Gordon. Fuck, even rock guitarists like David Gilmour. PM sounds often like a sophisticated Jazz shredder
Funny how we experience things differently, I find Metheny super melodic and very similar to Wes actually 🙂
hey man, could you analyse Metheny's phrasing on Rain River?
Maybe, I will have to listen to it :)
I’m probably wrong about what I’m fixing to say. But sometimes it sounds like people are just noodling on the guitar passing time.
I am not a jazz guitarist in the slightest . I'm just a rock guy ( More alternative ) who knows the usual scales but what I have noticed about Jazz , which I am starting to get into is that they just play what ever they want . You throw in a few chromatics and now it sounds like jazz . Its as if all the wrong notes make it Jazz .
Maybe, you should need to understand the music a little better, and not watch jazz tutorials by Spinal Tap?
Takes a very sharp musical mind to really get away with the things Pat does though
That is very true! :)
@@JensLarsen Great video by the way. You really break it down!
whats the Sock on ya Neck supposed to do? - keepin in warm? haha
No, it's there to keep the people busy who can't follow the content in the video 😄
I think that is a string damper sort of like Herb Ellis used to use.
Molt boooo, Jensen, joan, Catalonia free, llibertat presos politics,💕💕❤️
What does Pat Metheny have to do with Catalonia? I don't really understand
Lacks feeling - not the blues !!
Is your concept of what is blues ending at Clapton and Muddy Waters?
I don't resonate with Metheny's guitar style, it seems like waffling to me, it is obviously skilled but the cadences don't interest me-i liked his work with Joni Mitchell, not so much his extended instrumentals
Fair enough :)