“Because Azelf is designed to faint, you can now go into any Pokémon you want to and apply pressure.” On-screen battle switches into Suicune with pressure. Perfect 👌
Yeah. My personal favorite suicide leaper is uxie tho because yawn into memento almost guarantees I can set up a sweep with my next pokemon. Memento not only punishes switching away from the drowsy pokemon, but stops rapid spin and switch attacks (most often u turn, which is super effective) if they do switch it's not as bad as an asleep pokemon if they just choose to live with the stat boosts, allowing them to maybe possibly take out a sub in one attack thus stuffing the whole strategy. if they put up their own sub tho you've lost the interaction and need to manual switch away with shame because yawn and memento are blocked also memento can miss for some reason, so watch out for evasion if you're in a match where that's applicable
@@Expialadociouss I just realised, substitute blocks memento because the plushie wards off evil spirits tho substitute blocking yawn doesn't make sense, it's sound-based for crying out loud
Honestly, a whole thesis could be written about the nonsense surrounding the end of Gen 6's lifetime - The end of generation OLT, the last day Mega Sableye ban, Quagsire's ridiculous tier pinball, etc.
You mean the way Quagsire was jumping from tier to tier for a while? I wasn't playing competitive Pokemon in Gen 6-7, but I do remember that for a while Quagsire was jumping between tiers. (Quagsire is Uber, oh wait, it's actually useless so now it's NU. Oh, actually it counters some problematic Pokemon, it's OU. Oh, those Pokemon now run counters, it's RU. Oh, wait, Quagsire can counter those counters, it's back to OU. Oh, actually... We don't know where to place it now, so let's go with UU.)
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 To be fair, the placement is based on usage, not how good it is. It jumped from NU to OU when it started being used a ton there, not cuz people couldn't figure out how good it is.
@@Celia_Dawn That's kinda what I said. It moved up when it was useful against the problematic mons being commonly used, then it moved down when those mons started running counters to it making it less viable, and it just kept yo-yoing like that.
From what I can remember, Exca and Lando were used because in favor of Azelf because they have Rock Tomb against Tornadus and the Z Move Potential of these leads. Against the Mega Magic Bouncers, Diancie cannot safely switch in, Sableye loses to Swords Dance from Landorus or Toxic from Excadrill and Excadrill also has Mold Breaker so it straight up cares no nonsense.
See, my favorite thing to do with Azelf was to take advantage of most people's expectation that it would go boom after a turn or two. Because of course, the thing to do if you suspected an incoming explosion was to put out Ferrothorn, which would ordinarily force an Explosion set out. So of course, I didn't run an Explosion set. I ran a conventional offense set that carried the move that a lot of people seemed to forget that Azelf learns: Flamethrower. Bait in the Explosion-expectant Ferrothorn walls, then burn them to a crisp. EDIT: a word, Christ autocorrect
My follow up question seeing this is why wasnt azelf retroactively moved back into UU? If the rule to ban late tier changes was made in direct reference to azelfs steep rise for one tournament, it feels logical to allow for azelf to return to its competitive realm. Very minor adjustments have occurred in other generations before after the gates are “locked”, so changing just the one 6 years later seems fair.
If I were to guess, it is cause those other pokemon were an extremely important staple in the tier they were in. Removing them would change the tier a lot and would take a lot of adjusting that would not be possible near the end of a generation. I'm not extremely sure so don't quote me on it though
the rule change was because many tiers in SS were going to lose tier staples near the end of a gen and be unstable otherwise which the rule change now prevents that as SS RU will possibly no longer lose crobat, SS UU wont lose rotom-w, slowking, and excadrill, etc
@@darthhydreigon820 broo I see you on every smogon related space lmao. The stunfisk subreddit, the UU discord, I even saw you talking about comp on the Unite subreddit once lol.
one of my favorite leads is froslass, which essentially does the same thing as azelf but instead of explosion, it runs destiny bond so you don’t risk not killing the other mon
@@inazuma-fulgur it honestly wasn't, at least not in OU where destiny bond saw almost no usage. It's one of those moves that are broken in theory but kinda bad. The only real destiny bond abuser was Mega Gengar, and that one was inherently broken itself and also abused Perish Song.
Destiny Bond is actually a risky move. If your opponent switches out of it, they get a free switch out of it and if they go into a faster taunter, they can neutralize Froslass. Explosion guarantees a safe switch in on top so you can build up more pressure.
One of the first teams I made in Showdown was an ORAS OU Explosion themed team, and Azelf was my favourite lead. Life Orb Explosion hit so hard once you set rocks up, and being fast enough to flinch things with Zen Headbutt or quick U-Turn out of a potential Pursuit switch-in can earn you a massive advantage. For those wondering, this was the team: - Azelf (YaPlayedyAzelf) - Landorus-T (Pop-Pop) - Weezing (Boomer) - Onix (Onixpected) - Glalie (Frostbite) - Snorlax (Fat Man) Onix was my favourite in the team, being a Sturdy + Weakness Policy set with Rock Polish to get off an Explosion or (admittedly weak) EQ or Stone Edge. Weezing was there to annoy stall teams, with Taunt and Pain Split for things like Chansey and Skarmory, and it being the only member of my team without Explosion. When playing an Explosion team, you want to gain a numbers advantage and then strategically trade mons with Explosion/Self-destruct to win. Heavy physical beaters such as Lando and Azelf were key, while Glalie covered the special side and Weezing was the stallbreaker of sorts. I was still a competitive Pokémon novice, but that team proudly carried me to 1400 on my first ladder trip :)
I love this because azelf is a pokemon that usually hangs out in UU and occasionally gets used in OU. And having it be in UU every gen except for one is just such an unintentional meta way of representing that
Smogon: "We'll institute a policy to prevent volatility in the format due to fads after the generation ends." Also Smogon: Institutes a policy that permanently enshrines any short-term volatility or fad in the format until the end of time.
@@FraserSouris The fact that the process usually catches most fads that don't last longer than a few months is poor consolation for the pokemon who have been permanently displaced from their most appropriate tier by accidents of timing. The merits of "we usually catch most fads" are difficult to balance against the absolute permanence of any fad that isn't caught.
Azelf in Gen 4 was always so fun, I've always loved using the more unorthodox sets like Choice Band and Nasty Plot. It's lowkey pretty versatile and super fun to use, might try to make it work on BW Psyspam in a ladder video or something 🤔
Nasty plot has been way more popular lately in gen 4, and it's really good especially since lategame people really don't know what azelf generally does. I've seen people swap into Machamp for azelf and been toasted.
Has there ever been a post-Gen 4 format that got rid of team preview? It seems like it had a massive effect on the meta, and it’d be interesting to see how the Gen 8 meta would shake out without the mechanic.
Zoroark would be meta-defining. Having to play around the opponent possibly having zoroark even when they don't would create an incredibly oppressive environment. And if they *do* have a zoroark and you don't play around it, you just lose on the spot. Zoroark is very likely the reason team preview exists at all.
@@caliburnleaf9323 Zoroark would probably be banned from an OM with no team preview simply because it creates way too many 50/50 scenarios in situations where there would otherwise be no 50/50.
Honestly, I feel like they go about “fixing” issues with tier freezes the wrong way, at least on principle. On basic principles, it makes more sense to have time for the meta to “cool off” before freezing it, and to just take more time between adjusting tiers until a satisfactory accuracy can be obtained
I would love a video on why bans apply to all Pokémon instead of just those that are op with that move/ability/item. For example: Drapion using Acupressure in monotype is OP so they banned Acupressure, but why didn’t they just ban Drapion from using Acupressure
Oh yes, I definitely think an explanation of complex bans (eg. specifically banning Drapion from using Acupressure) and why Smogon usually prefers to avoid them would make for a good video topic.
Because that'd be a complex ban and they can't be bothered to discuss that. "No you CANNOT use Blaziken without Speed Boost, next you'll want Reshiram in OU! Ok you can use Excadrill under these circumstances and Baton Pass but here's a wall of text explaining the rules"
@@skeetermania3202 Drapion has good bulk, only one weakness and can't be critted thanks to Battle Armor; since in Monotype you're more hard pressed to include as many counters to your bad matchups (aka your type's weaknesses), there's little space to include Taunt/Roar/Whirlwind/Haze, so Drapion can usually just get to +6 in everything including Evasion, at which point you basically auto lose.
you’d think so, but the issue lies with the playerbase. after a generation ends, the playerbase shrinks massively. once that happens, the weight an individual holds for affecting usage rates rise significantly. hitmontop was a good example of an abuse of the system; now imagine if you needed less people on board to achieve the same results
@@SuperEljafru 😭bro shut up about hitmontop being an abuse of the system. higher ladder games matter more than lower ladder games, so if the people "abusing the system" are using a subpar pokemon, and maintaining high ladder with it, maybe that pokemon isn't subpar and you don't understand its niche
My FAVORITE Lead Pokémon in competitive Gen 4 OU! Set up Stealth Rocks after you get off taunt, cripple enemy leads or other switch ins with Thunder Wave and then NUKE EVERYONE with Explosion!
I think it did, iirc it was an important pokemon for the tier and it's loss basically threw off the balancing. Which is also why this lead to this rule Tho I haven't played back then, I just remember reading about this topic in the forums
Actually that is super interesting, it seems like all the rain teams would make it better not worse Guess it isn't the best hurricane spammer if torn is also around?
@@inazuma-fulgur it didn’t get hurricane back then. I just don’t think it was cut out for the prevalence of sand and lack of stall. Zapdos is not bad though in that gen.
My main takeaway from this is that Flying is arguably the best offensive type in Pokémon under the post Gen 5 type chart. Bird Spam HO, Flyinium Z sweepers, and Max Airstream lmao. Honestly Flying and Ghost both need nerfs to make them less dumb as offensive STAB imo.
@@toast2492 it’d probably still be broken, raising speed is insanely powerful, especially on Pokémon that otherwise are balanced by not being able to do so normally
When i saw OLT being mentioned this was clear for me because in this tournament the teams are HO or Stall. Shuckle also rise to OU in the last gen bc he have both Stealth Rock and Sticky Web, wich was needed in a popular team during OLT
Huh, I've always wondered this. I play Showdown here and there, and when I looked at Azelf's pages, it always made me curious how it bumped up a tier from Gen 5 to Gen 6.
Azelf was an OU lead in early DPPt meta . Taunt, rocks, explode. And the 4th move was up in the air. Flamethrower for forretress which was a popular lead real early on, psychic was probably the worst, grass knot for pert. Lol
Great video as always! Love this kind of interesting meta-analysis, and love how you're able to just tell a story that's both compelling and concise. Sub to Freezai y'all ❤️
I gotta wonder for earlier gens, if certain mons were considered for lower tiers only due to limited access. Back when event mons Weren’t available online
Hey can you do a video on why Lando T always stayed in ou. Even tho his pick rate is near 50% I thought he be banned or something for being a must pick lol
just coz its used alot dosent mean its overly broken. its just so good at doing so many roles at once but not like its gonna outspeed andohko everything. its still op tho
@@humusstealr9982 being great at a lot of roles does make it pretty good. Especially when the roles are pretty diverse like defensive stealth rocker with explosion to straight up all out offensive. Plus if it's about usage, how is 50% not considered enough for a suspect.
@@Coolman32381 Because ou is the standard tier. I think that something becomes ubers ONLY IF that pokemon is considered overpowered for the tier. Having a lot of usage doesn't necessarily mean overpowered, it just means its really suited for the tier ig. Its a very big part of ou, but not totally restricting on teambuilding and as such can be handled by most teams. Just an opinion tho
If Azelf wasn't really an ou caliber pokémon, then why wasn't it moved to ou by technicality? Newer players might think that Azelf is viable in ou, when it really isn't. That's why ou by technicality exists, to show that something is ou when it really shouldn't and prevent any confusion.
That's actually a good question tbh. Raikou rose to OU because it saw usage as a bird spam check, but is pretty unviable otherwise. Raikou was made OU by technicality after the fact but Azelf wasn't. I think in Azelf's case it's at least a solid user of a specific role for a specific playstyle, it just isn't enough to make it OU in other gens.
In early gen 8 I used a succide lead Arena Trap Dugtrio (before Arena Trap got banned ofc) since Dynamax was around then my strat was normally basically the same thing with the added bounus of trapping them in until I'm done (SR, Taunt/Destiny Bond, Momento, and an attacking move based on what my team needed {normally just EQ}) I had though being done one Poke would've been more impactful but the uncontested SR and the guranteed free turn or two of set-up > Dynamax was super broken and often lead to me being up 4+ mons early (lul Dynamax)
Rather than locking old gens, seems like they should have some sort of tiering council. Seems like the best option when you dont have enough games for usage stats, and would let you finally give things like gen 4 electivire the boot from ou.
freezai what do you think about light clay/screens/serperior in oras ou right now? apparently some people think light clay needs to be banned as a result of the trends that were happening in either last spl or the one before that, personally as someone who plays the tier I never run into screens but maybe you might know
Not only bird spam was well… extremely spammed on the ladder, it was always arranged in the same team order. Azelf, Dragonite, then Excadrill, and so forth
Hey Freezai, do you think that's possible to break kyurem black in Gen 5 Ou and making him banned or top 3 by usage? Yesterday, as a throw ayaw joke i created a team with zero knowledge of the metagame, except really for vague concept as he must be good viable against powerful rain, sand teams and drag-mag stuff. So i slapped some staples such as Jellicent-ferrothorn for walling purposes, Scarf terrakion, rapid spin excadrill improving my match-up against sand, then I tried Abomasnow just for the following one trick pony: Choice specs Blizzard Kyurem Black. The theory behind this is that, with AN ABSOLUTELY MINIMAL INVESTIMENT in attack, kyurem black's outrage is still stronger than Salamence's Outrage, but instead of running him choice band with last move special coverage, I run him choice specs 3 special moves for maximun coverage in blizzard (which should still have 120 bp) earth power, and shadow ball. 120 special attack is still ridiculously good because we are talking about OU, and we all know the immense stats that Black has. While k've realized now that ferrothorn is still a nuisance without hail up, so shadow ball might be eventually replaced by a hp, this set in theory cracks open OU, because he can now threaten every pokemon with coverage including steels, while before... eh... but i just can't get going on for the moment. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE THAT REPLICATE MY GENIUS AND DETERMINATION TO BREAK OU
I run azelf on all my ou teams lol. Mostly because i spent 6 months shiny hunting it in a fangame and so i run a choice band explosion set with no other moves
I have to wonder why that tier chart is a pyramid. Aren’t the tiers literally the top X mons per tier? Minus banlists. The only pyramid I see on showdown is the agency pyramid. Unless the sizes are actually different.
I really dislike how they do this kinda shit. Dusknoir and Electivire stay "OU" for well over a decade after the prank is over, Azelf is taken from UU where she was great, and somehow this kinda stuff can be ignored while they decide tier changes like Latias in DPPt or banning Gems in BW. They've gotta be realistic with tiering on old gens and not just end it when the gen is over. The jannies gotta do their jobs
I dont get why Smogon doesnt have a "Special Case Voting" rule or something. When special cases in the tiering system arise, just... make the logical decision its that easy. Just drop Azlef to UU where it belongs Yall make up all tiers anyway its all unofficial so if yall could do whatcha want instead of being slaves to your own rule sets. Dont need to change the rule about rising/falling in the late in the gen... This was a rare case just address these cases as they come instead of overreacting and making rule changes
yes, it shouldve been left in UU, but all the bird spam teams pushed him into OU and now he's trapped in that tier. Damn shame, since i liked using Azelf in uu
“Because Azelf is designed to faint, you can now go into any Pokémon you want to and apply pressure.”
On-screen battle switches into Suicune with pressure. Perfect 👌
Into Calm Mind Suicune with Pressure. Double pressure!
Yeah. My personal favorite suicide leaper is uxie tho because yawn into memento almost guarantees I can set up a sweep with my next pokemon.
Memento not only punishes switching away from the drowsy pokemon, but stops rapid spin and switch attacks (most often u turn, which is super effective)
if they do switch it's not as bad as an asleep pokemon if they just choose to live with the stat boosts, allowing them to maybe possibly take out a sub in one attack thus stuffing the whole strategy.
if they put up their own sub tho you've lost the interaction and need to manual switch away with shame because yawn and memento are blocked
also memento can miss for some reason, so watch out for evasion if you're in a match where that's applicable
@@Brass319 Imagine missing your nuclear bomb move that kills you because someone hid behind a green doll
@@Expialadociouss I just realised, substitute blocks memento because the plushie wards off evil spirits
tho substitute blocking yawn doesn't make sense, it's sound-based for crying out loud
Honestly, a whole thesis could be written about the nonsense surrounding the end of Gen 6's lifetime - The end of generation OLT, the last day Mega Sableye ban, Quagsire's ridiculous tier pinball, etc.
You mean the way Quagsire was jumping from tier to tier for a while?
I wasn't playing competitive Pokemon in Gen 6-7, but I do remember that for a while Quagsire was jumping between tiers. (Quagsire is Uber, oh wait, it's actually useless so now it's NU. Oh, actually it counters some problematic Pokemon, it's OU. Oh, those Pokemon now run counters, it's RU. Oh, wait, Quagsire can counter those counters, it's back to OU. Oh, actually... We don't know where to place it now, so let's go with UU.)
Quagsire:wtf is a tier I just wanna stall
@@wezen89 Quagsire is Unaware of the meta and which tier it's supposed to be in.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 To be fair, the placement is based on usage, not how good it is. It jumped from NU to OU when it started being used a ton there, not cuz people couldn't figure out how good it is.
@@Celia_Dawn That's kinda what I said. It moved up when it was useful against the problematic mons being commonly used, then it moved down when those mons started running counters to it making it less viable, and it just kept yo-yoing like that.
I always thought it would be more popular in gen 7,with power creep allowing insane pokemon with z moves,like kartana and battle bond greninja,
Yeah but hyper offense shifted it's leads quite a bit with the greater availability of defog and greater number of viable sticky webs setters
From what I can remember, Exca and Lando were used because in favor of Azelf because they have Rock Tomb against Tornadus and the Z Move Potential of these leads. Against the Mega Magic Bouncers, Diancie cannot safely switch in, Sableye loses to Swords Dance from Landorus or Toxic from Excadrill and Excadrill also has Mold Breaker so it straight up cares no nonsense.
I was wondering why almost every match in my UU matches today had azelf. I feel this maybe a factor in that.
See, my favorite thing to do with Azelf was to take advantage of most people's expectation that it would go boom after a turn or two. Because of course, the thing to do if you suspected an incoming explosion was to put out Ferrothorn, which would ordinarily force an Explosion set out. So of course, I didn't run an Explosion set. I ran a conventional offense set that carried the move that a lot of people seemed to forget that Azelf learns: Flamethrower. Bait in the Explosion-expectant Ferrothorn walls, then burn them to a crisp.
EDIT: a word, Christ autocorrect
My follow up question seeing this is why wasnt azelf retroactively moved back into UU? If the rule to ban late tier changes was made in direct reference to azelfs steep rise for one tournament, it feels logical to allow for azelf to return to its competitive realm. Very minor adjustments have occurred in other generations before after the gates are “locked”, so changing just the one 6 years later seems fair.
If I were to guess, it is cause those other pokemon were an extremely important staple in the tier they were in. Removing them would change the tier a lot and would take a lot of adjusting that would not be possible near the end of a generation. I'm not extremely sure so don't quote me on it though
the rule change was because many tiers in SS were going to lose tier staples near the end of a gen and be unstable otherwise which the rule change now prevents that as SS RU will possibly no longer lose crobat, SS UU wont lose rotom-w, slowking, and excadrill, etc
@@stuff26262 hi
@@DJTileTurnip oh fuck hi
@@darthhydreigon820 broo I see you on every smogon related space lmao. The stunfisk subreddit, the UU discord, I even saw you talking about comp on the Unite subreddit once lol.
one of my favorite leads is froslass, which essentially does the same thing as azelf but instead of explosion, it runs destiny bond so you don’t risk not killing the other mon
Usually with Azelf you don't wanna kill the other mon tho - a double down means you don't get switch initiative.
Also with Azelf with explosion you can safely deny defogs and keep up momentum without having to predict much or making the wrong choice
Destiny bond used to be so unbalanced, and people actually wanted it back lol
@@inazuma-fulgur it honestly wasn't, at least not in OU where destiny bond saw almost no usage. It's one of those moves that are broken in theory but kinda bad. The only real destiny bond abuser was Mega Gengar, and that one was inherently broken itself and also abused Perish Song.
Destiny Bond is actually a risky move. If your opponent switches out of it, they get a free switch out of it and if they go into a faster taunter, they can neutralize Froslass. Explosion guarantees a safe switch in on top so you can build up more pressure.
Last time I was this early Azelf was still in UU in gen 6.
Nice video as always, Freezai! Here's to 100k before 2023!
One of the first teams I made in Showdown was an ORAS OU Explosion themed team, and Azelf was my favourite lead. Life Orb Explosion hit so hard once you set rocks up, and being fast enough to flinch things with Zen Headbutt or quick U-Turn out of a potential Pursuit switch-in can earn you a massive advantage.
For those wondering, this was the team:
- Azelf (YaPlayedyAzelf)
- Landorus-T (Pop-Pop)
- Weezing (Boomer)
- Onix (Onixpected)
- Glalie (Frostbite)
- Snorlax (Fat Man)
Onix was my favourite in the team, being a Sturdy + Weakness Policy set with Rock Polish to get off an Explosion or (admittedly weak) EQ or Stone Edge. Weezing was there to annoy stall teams, with Taunt and Pain Split for things like Chansey and Skarmory, and it being the only member of my team without Explosion.
When playing an Explosion team, you want to gain a numbers advantage and then strategically trade mons with Explosion/Self-destruct to win. Heavy physical beaters such as Lando and Azelf were key, while Glalie covered the special side and Weezing was the stallbreaker of sorts. I was still a competitive Pokémon novice, but that team proudly carried me to 1400 on my first ladder trip :)
Onix ?
wow, 1400, that's impressive
I love this because azelf is a pokemon that usually hangs out in UU and occasionally gets used in OU. And having it be in UU every gen except for one is just such an unintentional meta way of representing that
Smogon: "We'll institute a policy to prevent volatility in the format due to fads after the generation ends."
Also Smogon: Institutes a policy that permanently enshrines any short-term volatility or fad in the format until the end of time.
@@FraserSouris
The fact that the process usually catches most fads that don't last longer than a few months is poor consolation for the pokemon who have been permanently displaced from their most appropriate tier by accidents of timing.
The merits of "we usually catch most fads" are difficult to balance against the absolute permanence of any fad that isn't caught.
Azelf in Gen 4 was always so fun, I've always loved using the more unorthodox sets like Choice Band and Nasty Plot. It's lowkey pretty versatile and super fun to use, might try to make it work on BW Psyspam in a ladder video or something 🤔
Nasty plot has been way more popular lately in gen 4, and it's really good especially since lategame people really don't know what azelf generally does. I've seen people swap into Machamp for azelf and been toasted.
Has there ever been a post-Gen 4 format that got rid of team preview? It seems like it had a massive effect on the meta, and it’d be interesting to see how the Gen 8 meta would shake out without the mechanic.
Not an official format but you can add mods in custom games to remove team preview,
Zoroark would be meta-defining. Having to play around the opponent possibly having zoroark even when they don't would create an incredibly oppressive environment. And if they *do* have a zoroark and you don't play around it, you just lose on the spot. Zoroark is very likely the reason team preview exists at all.
@@caliburnleaf9323 Zoroark would probably be banned from an OM with no team preview simply because it creates way too many 50/50 scenarios in situations where there would otherwise be no 50/50.
@@jimmyjuice697 imagine if it got rocks lul
randbats
Honestly, I feel like they go about “fixing” issues with tier freezes the wrong way, at least on principle. On basic principles, it makes more sense to have time for the meta to “cool off” before freezing it, and to just take more time between adjusting tiers until a satisfactory accuracy can be obtained
I would love a video on why bans apply to all Pokémon instead of just those that are op with that move/ability/item. For example: Drapion using Acupressure in monotype is OP so they banned Acupressure, but why didn’t they just ban Drapion from using Acupressure
Oh yes, I definitely think an explanation of complex bans (eg. specifically banning Drapion from using Acupressure) and why Smogon usually prefers to avoid them would make for a good video topic.
Because that'd be a complex ban and they can't be bothered to discuss that. "No you CANNOT use Blaziken without Speed Boost, next you'll want Reshiram in OU! Ok you can use Excadrill under these circumstances and Baton Pass but here's a wall of text explaining the rules"
Why is that OP?
@@skeetermania3202 Drapion has good bulk, only one weakness and can't be critted thanks to Battle Armor; since in Monotype you're more hard pressed to include as many counters to your bad matchups (aka your type's weaknesses), there's little space to include Taunt/Roar/Whirlwind/Haze, so Drapion can usually just get to +6 in everything including Evasion, at which point you basically auto lose.
@@darkfiredragon3410 I’ve heard of that strategy being used deviously by Nuzlockers.
0:31 ok but i've been out of comp mons for a bit since gen 8 and I NEED to know wtf happened to uxie lmfao
I feel like old-gen tiers getting locked is a flawed concept, as it stymies change and ignores mons who drop in usage (read: Electivire)
If enough people played those tiers they wouldn't be locked
you’d think so, but the issue lies with the playerbase. after a generation ends, the playerbase shrinks massively. once that happens, the weight an individual holds for affecting usage rates rise significantly. hitmontop was a good example of an abuse of the system; now imagine if you needed less people on board to achieve the same results
@@SuperEljafru 😭bro shut up about hitmontop being an abuse of the system. higher ladder games matter more than lower ladder games, so if the people "abusing the system" are using a subpar pokemon, and maintaining high ladder with it, maybe that pokemon isn't subpar and you don't understand its niche
@@FlintsInfernape i'm just gonna assume you're having a bad day. relax and have a glass of water bro, it'll do wonders
Imo letting mons drop is a fine thing, rising causes problems. Clefable is fantastic in dpp ou but you can't just Remove a pivotal dpp uu Pokémon now
My FAVORITE Lead Pokémon in competitive Gen 4 OU! Set up Stealth Rocks after you get off taunt, cripple enemy leads or other switch ins with Thunder Wave and then NUKE EVERYONE with Explosion!
Did this end up having a negative impact on Gen 6 UU? I'm not familiar enough with the tier to know what its niche was before it got boosted to OU.
I think it did, iirc it was an important pokemon for the tier and it's loss basically threw off the balancing. Which is also why this lead to this rule
Tho I haven't played back then, I just remember reading about this topic in the forums
Since Azelf is like.. the only good Lake Guardian (In terms of competitive Pokémon), I would expect this.
Nah Azelf is the best lake spirit period
No matter how you look at it
@@swampy725 ratio
Poor Mesprit, ignored and forgotten.
they are all good lol, the other 2 are just better in lower tiers
@@oofjeff3735 No, the other two are just bad
easily and i mean easily a top tier pokemon content creator! qll of these r fascinating and fun to watch
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Me this entire video:
Azelf to pineapplefred galvantula: he does exactly what I do but better
Not that probably anyone else will know who he is but lol @ 1:35 for the Jirachi named Gottlieb
0:29 That chart LMAO. RIP Uxie.
Azelf, the pokemon of willpower sneaking into ou is very fitting
I think you should do a video like this, but the opposite.
Zapdos is OU every gen, except 5
Actually that is super interesting, it seems like all the rain teams would make it better not worse
Guess it isn't the best hurricane spammer if torn is also around?
@@inazuma-fulgur it didn’t get hurricane back then. I just don’t think it was cut out for the prevalence of sand and lack of stall. Zapdos is not bad though in that gen.
@@jamesmeyer9574 ah ic thanks, well sand spam definitely sounds like problem for electric flying
@@inazuma-fulgur zap only got hurricane in gen 8. Gen 8 boosted a lot of things actually. Nasty plot and close combat on everything lol
@@BinhHoang-bj7sz True lol, so many random Pokemon got Close Combat
“An Azelf situation” that’s a funny saying
These videos are really cool just to show off niche meta changes throughout history
My main takeaway from this is that Flying is arguably the best offensive type in Pokémon under the post Gen 5 type chart. Bird Spam HO, Flyinium Z sweepers, and Max Airstream lmao.
Honestly Flying and Ghost both need nerfs to make them less dumb as offensive STAB imo.
Flying as a type is average in offense due to its affinities, but flying moves and mons are way too good
True max airstream should’ve acted like max knuckle which is lower bp but gains stat boosts
@@toast2492 it’d probably still be broken, raising speed is insanely powerful, especially on Pokémon that otherwise are balanced by not being able to do so normally
@@toast2492 lower bp? Aren’t the base powers based on the original move? and it increases speed too?
@@CN-yb5gn no not exactly since close combat turned into max knuckle is 95 bp
I remember seeing that team a lot at the end of gen 6 and i lost so many matches to it
PURE HACKMONS IS BACK!! Pls do video announcing it
Oh my! What do you mean???
Did they ban Eternataus from the tier where nothing is banned
@@marcshade9916 Went and read the forums, they did not. Eternamax is still playable, from what I can see
Yessir
ahh yes, the best support move, explosion
When i saw OLT being mentioned this was clear for me because in this tournament the teams are HO or Stall.
Shuckle also rise to OU in the last gen bc he have both Stealth Rock and Sticky Web, wich was needed in a popular team during OLT
I wonder how insane "Bird Spam" would be (or rather, would've been) if Mega Pinsir was replaced by the even more insane Mega Salamence.
i always remember tangrowth was like NU for half of gen 6 until people realized it beat keldeo or something and found a home in OU
That's hilarious. Tangrowth, of all Pokémon.
Huh, I've always wondered this. I play Showdown here and there, and when I looked at Azelf's pages, it always made me curious how it bumped up a tier from Gen 5 to Gen 6.
Azelft: suffering from success
Azelf was an OU lead in early DPPt meta . Taunt, rocks, explode. And the 4th move was up in the air. Flamethrower for forretress which was a popular lead real early on, psychic was probably the worst, grass knot for pert. Lol
Azelf: “Suicide is badass!”
Great video as always! Love this kind of interesting meta-analysis, and love how you're able to just tell a story that's both compelling and concise.
Sub to Freezai y'all ❤️
Glad you enjoyed it!
Group of people were trying to get falinks usage up, up until they realized the tiers are locked
Ubers - Am i a joke to you
Why do mega sabeleye and skill swap get mentioned briefly? I didn't understand that part
My word do I miss Pursuit. Remember clicking Pursuit, guys?
I gotta wonder for earlier gens, if certain mons were considered for lower tiers only due to limited access. Back when event mons Weren’t available online
2:19 snuck in the magnus reference
Freezai I’m getting the feeling gen 3 is your fav bc the music is in all your vids
Hey can you do a video on why Lando T always stayed in ou. Even tho his pick rate is near 50% I thought he be banned or something for being a must pick lol
just coz its used alot dosent mean its overly broken. its just so good at doing so many roles at once but not like its gonna outspeed andohko everything. its still op tho
@@humusstealr9982 being great at a lot of roles does make it pretty good. Especially when the roles are pretty diverse like defensive stealth rocker with explosion to straight up all out offensive. Plus if it's about usage, how is 50% not considered enough for a suspect.
@@Coolman32381 Because ou is the standard tier. I think that something becomes ubers ONLY IF that pokemon is considered overpowered for the tier. Having a lot of usage doesn't necessarily mean overpowered, it just means its really suited for the tier ig. Its a very big part of ou, but not totally restricting on teambuilding and as such can be handled by most teams. Just an opinion tho
Pretty weird for an Azelf to be OU in the land of Lando-T and Alakazam, and Fairies.
You should make a video about that time Tangrowth went from NU to OU.
I remember my favourite set for azelf.
Hp ice, psyshock, fire blast and stealth rocks.
People just assumed I was screen's and lost like 1 or 2 mons
If Azelf wasn't really an ou caliber pokémon, then why wasn't it moved to ou by technicality? Newer players might think that Azelf is viable in ou, when it really isn't. That's why ou by technicality exists, to show that something is ou when it really shouldn't and prevent any confusion.
That's actually a good question tbh. Raikou rose to OU because it saw usage as a bird spam check, but is pretty unviable otherwise. Raikou was made OU by technicality after the fact but Azelf wasn't. I think in Azelf's case it's at least a solid user of a specific role for a specific playstyle, it just isn't enough to make it OU in other gens.
In early gen 8 I used a succide lead Arena Trap Dugtrio (before Arena Trap got banned ofc) since Dynamax was around then my strat was normally basically the same thing with the added bounus of trapping them in until I'm done (SR, Taunt/Destiny Bond, Momento, and an attacking move based on what my team needed {normally just EQ}) I had though being done one Poke would've been more impactful but the uncontested SR and the guranteed free turn or two of set-up > Dynamax was super broken and often lead to me being up 4+ mons early (lul Dynamax)
It's a crime you didn't mention mesprit in this video. mesprit's rise to nu in gen 7 was one of the most controversial topic
I'm inspired to increase my usage of usagery
Rather than locking old gens, seems like they should have some sort of tiering council. Seems like the best option when you dont have enough games for usage stats, and would let you finally give things like gen 4 electivire the boot from ou.
The problem is, it might be open to bias
Aaaaah, its just the Azelf Gambit. Sacrificing material for a big attack :)
I will always wonder: what if team preview was never introduced?
Never forget what they did to mega-sabeleye
Gen 6 will always be my favorite gen
freezai what do you think about light clay/screens/serperior in oras ou right now? apparently some people think light clay needs to be banned as a result of the trends that were happening in either last spl or the one before that, personally as someone who plays the tier I never run into screens but maybe you might know
Not only bird spam was well… extremely spammed on the ladder, it was always arranged in the same team order. Azelf, Dragonite, then Excadrill, and so forth
I mean the pastebin for the team was on the smogon post so it was pretty accessible
0:26 what happened to torkoal
People realized sun was actually really good
Can Smogon use Viability Rankings instead of tiering system if the games count is low for that?
Hey Freezai, do you think that's possible to break kyurem black in Gen 5 Ou and making him banned or top 3 by usage? Yesterday, as a throw ayaw joke i created a team with zero knowledge of the metagame, except really for vague concept as he must be good viable against powerful rain, sand teams and drag-mag stuff. So i slapped some staples such as Jellicent-ferrothorn for walling purposes, Scarf terrakion, rapid spin excadrill improving my match-up against sand, then I tried Abomasnow just for the following one trick pony: Choice specs Blizzard Kyurem Black. The theory behind this is that, with AN ABSOLUTELY MINIMAL INVESTIMENT in attack, kyurem black's outrage is still stronger than Salamence's Outrage, but instead of running him choice band with last move special coverage, I run him choice specs 3 special moves for maximun coverage in blizzard (which should still have 120 bp) earth power, and shadow ball. 120 special attack is still ridiculously good because we are talking about OU, and we all know the immense stats that Black has. While k've realized now that ferrothorn is still a nuisance without hail up, so shadow ball might be eventually replaced by a hp, this set in theory cracks open OU, because he can now threaten every pokemon with coverage including steels, while before... eh... but i just can't get going on for the moment. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE THAT REPLICATE MY GENIUS AND DETERMINATION TO BREAK OU
And if you ask, yes i don't care if tiers gets sealed, I want 100% usage on Kyurem Black in gen 5 ou
Ubers is not a normal tier, the only way to get into it is to get banned
I really miss the oras ou days man
depending on it's role in UU, it sounds really unfortunate that azelf got boosted to OU
what happened to Uxie in gen 8 that made it plummet to untiered?
yeah, it's a defensive bulky suicide lead? i use it to catch people off guard. dual screens + whatever fits your team
I think Mesprit is just better in every possible way. I'm a PU main now, and Mesprit is good there.
Wait so does Azelf just suck now because it can no longer be used in the tier it’s supposed to be in?
I run azelf on all my ou teams lol. Mostly because i spent 6 months shiny hunting it in a fangame and so i run a choice band explosion set with no other moves
5:17 Wait they banned Mega Sableye? Finally the stall players get their just desserts. Toxapex next please LOL
3:19 I swear he just said Mew generation.
Why did Uxie drop lower than Mesprit now? Did it lose important moves or did Mesprit get something important?
Make a vid about gen 2 chansey it run physical
OMG what is this song???
I was contacted by someone with your picture about a random comment selected for a contest. Did you actually do that?
That's a scam.
I've been seeing them everywhere. Unless it specifically relates to Freezai's content, ignore it.
That pesky elf, made it's way to OU last minute
A zelf on a shelf
Xtrashine
Didn't CTC make the original Bird Spam team and xtra stole and modified it?
I have to wonder why that tier chart is a pyramid. Aren’t the tiers literally the top X mons per tier? Minus banlists. The only pyramid I see on showdown is the agency pyramid. Unless the sizes are actually different.
I really dislike how they do this kinda shit. Dusknoir and Electivire stay "OU" for well over a decade after the prank is over, Azelf is taken from UU where she was great, and somehow this kinda stuff can be ignored while they decide tier changes like Latias in DPPt or banning Gems in BW. They've gotta be realistic with tiering on old gens and not just end it when the gen is over. The jannies gotta do their jobs
Or how Smogon manipulated Azelf out of G6 UU forever
Hold up are we just going to ignore that one guy running Stone Edge on Heatran?
its olt. People adapt really quickly
“Highest their in Gen 6” freezai, AG was invented in Gen 6
oh boy, competitive RNG
"Azelf could skill swap Mega Sableye" can't sableye just not mega evolve and prankster taunt?
It could, but I guess only being able to do that trick once is a big opportunity cost
Taunt is pretty horrible considering Magic Bounce already accomplishes most of what Taunt does
@@drunyon214 yeah it would essentially come down to counter-teaming OLT nerds
I dont get why Smogon doesnt have a "Special Case Voting" rule or something. When special cases in the tiering system arise, just... make the logical decision its that easy. Just drop Azlef to UU where it belongs
Yall make up all tiers anyway its all unofficial so if yall could do whatcha want instead of being slaves to your own rule sets. Dont need to change the rule about rising/falling in the late in the gen...
This was a rare case just address these cases as they come instead of overreacting and making rule changes
So it's OU by technicality?
yes, it shouldve been left in UU, but all the bird spam teams pushed him into OU and now he's trapped in that tier. Damn shame, since i liked using Azelf in uu
Why did uxie fall so hard in gen 8?
Psychic types have it bad in gen 8. (With a few exceptions)
'snuck'
technically Ou is not the top tier, it's just standard play. Top Tier would be Ubers, it's not AG cause that allows banned stuff.
That team was so much cancer and so much fun at the same time
Ctc birdspam
Azelf is A shelf
Wow
I prefer when your videos were 2-3 min long
Bird spam ftw
in gen7 uu it was a great breaker so its a shame uu lost it
azelf is uu in gen 7, they are talking about gen 6
Funny story