Just something I think needs clarification with the gtav comparison: the game's tessellation is very selective. First off, if you're in a fast moving scenario, tessellation turns itself off via a blast processing method. Also, not everything is tessellated. If you're looking at a car in gtav for example, the only thing being tessellated is the wheels and nothing else. A great comparison scenario is standing next to palm trees or cacti, being in the ocean, looking at rocky ground, looking at the characters hands in first person, etc. That's why in your gtav comparison 1) you don't notice a difference and 2) framerates are rather consistent.
ccmaster86 I like Ubuntu beacuse of how accessible it is, I can install it on a new machine much faster than Arch and do all he same things. I have used arch for a number of months but didnt care for pacman or yaourt. Arch users be like " compiling is too hard, I just like using the AUR..." ... whatever you wanabee nerds. edit:words
I think it's because it's "hardware tessellation" so the GPU is doing more solo work and doesn't need the CPU much other than loading displacement maps.
For those interested, you might wonder, "Why can't I just store all these details in the 3d model being rendered and send that to the video card? Why do I have tessellation at all? (Keep in mind tessellation produces a model with a ton of triangles, so it's not like the technique helps by reducing the number of triangles in the final result. So why not just send those triangles in the first place?)" We go through the trouble of having tessellation shaders on our GPU, because the act of tessellation avoids a common bottleneck in the rendering pipeline. In other words, it's to make things more efficient and give you more FPS for a similar amount of detail. The reason this happens relates to the speed we can transfer data to a video card versus the speed at which the GPU's little processors can do calculations once the data is present. In general, computers are quite slow at transferring data around -- much slower than a processing unit doing calculations. So you might spend 80% of your cycle to generate a frame in a video game sending around data and 20% doing calculations on that data to produce the frame. If you were to simply store all those details in the model, meaning a model with more triangles, you'd have to transfer all those triangles over to the GPU. And due to data transfer being a bottleneck, that might really, really hurt your FPS. Take those stairs as an example. Instead, of having tons of triangles to represent the steps and bumpiness of the stones, we just send over a flat ramp. That is waaay less data than if we were sending over the steps and all the bumps from the rocks. Once the data is in the GPU's pipeline, we then use little processors on the GPU to calculate / derive additional triangles for additional detail. That higher detail model with many more triangles is then pumped forward into the pipeline so that the result can be viewed.
Tradução para em PT-BR para brasileiros. Não manjo muito de inglês mas fiz oque pude: -Você pode pensar em Tesselation como a divisão literal de polígonos os quais compõem os objetos que vemos em jogos e outros efeitos especiais. -Quanto mais dividido a superfície é, mais detalhado entre aspas("quote-unquote") a superfície será retratada, desenhada no jogo. -Se um objeto é dividido em vários triângulos, então cotando cada triangulo na metade essencialmente dobra o Fator Tesselation .mas isso sozinho não muda nada. Se vc adicionar so mais triangulos sme fazer nada mais dinâmico com eles vc só estará sobrecarregando a GPU pra nada. .duplicar numero d formas não muda nada se metade das formas sao fisicalmente inalteradas das originais. 1:04 essa imagem 2D mostra melhor isso 1:10 DISPLACEMENT MAPPING muda e inclina essas novas formas criadas. .nvidia descreve Tesselation como uma textura que armazena informação de altura que ou dará aparência de um "blocky wuithout tesselation" ou uma suavidade lisa nao-realistica sem o Dispalcing Mapping. ... 1:30 Antigamente técnicas tradicionais de mapeamento d textura envolviam um nível de Oclusão, explica nesse vídeo (link) .em resumo, alguns pixels são sombreados numa tentativa de enganar o visualizador de pensar que a forma é mais dinâmica do que realmente é .adiciona um nível de profundidade artificial 1:46 Imagem mostrando bem isso .explica imagem que é auto explicativa. 2:04 Basicamente, Tesselation sem Displacement Mapping não mudaria nada no objeto, e Displacement Mapping sem Tesselation tornaria a aparência do objeto extremamente "blocky"(em bloco(?)) Então ambos são necessários para os jogos parecerem reais. 2:15 GTA V: -Em alguns casos como em GAT V, polígonos ja estão incorporando alto nível detalhes, então aumentando Tesselation não muda nada -Vc será pressionado("hard-pressed") agora para tentar ver a diferença nessa comparação entre 2 jogos com Tesselation máximo e sem. 2:32 a variação d FPS tbm é minúscula. 2:33 HAVEN BENCHMARK -Oferece forte contraste de Tesselation(""stark" tesselation contrast") entre presets Max e Off. .a escada parece uma rampa sem Tesselation. O dragão também é completamente diferente (mas nao mostrou) -ENtão dependendo de como so jogos são desenvolvidos, Tesselation é uma das cosia que você pode manipular e drasticamente impactar a aparência e sua percepção("feel") . -Geralmente maximizar Tesslation não causará muito impacto no seu jogo, mas usar benchmarks te dará uma informação mais aprofundada disso.
Thank you for putting tesselation in a real-world environment. I am taking a math course, and I am to explain what tesselation is with an example. I will link this video to my discussion. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
so basically, instead of creating a high definition mesh (that would always remain at high definition, thus wasting resources even if it's far away) you use a medium polygon count mesh with a texture map that decide in which way vertices must be displaced after the it has been enhanced by the tessellation shader. This way you can tessellate it only when it's near the camera, while it will be its lower res counterpart in the distance, so you can save gpu resources. Is this correct?
Excellent video. Perhaps in a separate video or series, more examples could be given of visual and performance impact of tessellation and displacement in a few popular, specific games, with a few common nvidia and amd graphics cards, if the results are notable at all.
A thing to be careful of is with Nvidia developed or assisted games when using AMD GPUs. Some of those games abuse the tesselation from AMD GPUs to make the game run slower on those GPUs, so it's better to turn tesselation completely off.
A bit of tech trivia:tesselation was introduced to gpus by amd and not Nvidia. It was available in the Radeon 2000 series and onward but was not implemented by Microsoft in dx10/10.1. It was available in OpenGL though.
I´m here only to know if this makes difference in the new metro exodus. Because tesselation stresses my GTX 1080 in a huge way. Like 20 FPS. But visually i can not tell a big the in the 1920 x 1080 resolution.
2:35 yeah thats how you sell an idiotic feature that nobody uses anymore nowadays... build a staircase without polygon per step... then add a tessellation mapping .... jesus how idiotic
I don't get it with gta V... I have a 1440p monitor, a gtx 1080 @ 2100Mhz and mem @5600. My cpu is an r5 1600 with all cores at 3.6Ghz and I seemingly can't get the game to utilise my gpu or cpu to its fullest but still not get above 45fps. My ddr4 is running at 3200Mhz so that should be fine and other games like skyrim run maxed out with Vsync at 60 all the time... I did all the usual stuff like updating drivers and redownloading the game but can't find the problem. How would you guys handle a problem like this?
Of course Nviditards would say that. A R5 is more than capable of handling a 1080,in fact,it's better than some i5's EASILY when overclocked. It wouldn't even bottleneck a SLI GTX 1080Ti set-up you little snot. He also SPECIFIED it's just GTA V,not other games.
If nothing fixes it you should do a clean windows install, update your BIOS, chipset drivers, graphics drivers and then try again, that ought to solve your issues
So I don't know if it was a mistake but the hyperlinks in the descriptions are only able to be copied and pasted not directed to the sites; including your patreon.
@Sience Studio -> You can see tessellation i GTA 5, if you stand very close to a palm tree, or you are driving in the mountain with dirt roads. The dirt and stones pops out. The same goes for the palm tree, you can see a lot of shapes in the wood. But the tessellation drawing distance is very narrow in GTA 5. When you are driving on a dirty road, you can actually see when the tessellation starts and end while driving.
Only thing i ever noticed with Tesselation in GTA V is the palm trees bark.
Prime Hardware you beat me to it! Everything I’ve read says Tesselation is only used for the trees in GTA V
The rocks and all terrain uses it too.
Just something I think needs clarification with the gtav comparison: the game's tessellation is very selective. First off, if you're in a fast moving scenario, tessellation turns itself off via a blast processing method. Also, not everything is tessellated. If you're looking at a car in gtav for example, the only thing being tessellated is the wheels and nothing else. A great comparison scenario is standing next to palm trees or cacti, being in the ocean, looking at rocky ground, looking at the characters hands in first person, etc. That's why in your gtav comparison 1) you don't notice a difference and 2) framerates are rather consistent.
This is the first explanation that has answered my unanswered questions. Thank you!
You ever thought about explaining or giving a brief overview of Linux?
Quan Washington Levelonetechs
BAD Ben I know, but I want him to do it.
Nah, people using Arch are the nerds. They call Ubuntu users plebs.
ccmaster86 But I haven't insulted anyone for using Ubuntu :)
ccmaster86 I like Ubuntu beacuse of how accessible it is, I can install it on a new machine much faster than Arch and do all he same things. I have used arch for a number of months but didnt care for pacman or yaourt. Arch users be like " compiling is too hard, I just like using the AUR..." ... whatever you wanabee nerds.
edit:words
*Is that Tessellation increasing in my pants?*
I can't tell it is looking very flat, maybe you need to adjust your D... isplacement map.
Thank you Savage Studio, I have one great thing before I go to school.
2 hearts in 2 days? I'm on fireeee
looool its summer here rip
Stratis Skapinakis yeah I start school on Monday.
rip
I knew what tessellation was, but I didn't know it made THAT much of a difference. That's neat. Nice video!
I appreciate it!
I think it's because it's "hardware tessellation" so the GPU is doing more solo work and doesn't need the CPU much other than loading displacement maps.
Listening to "high hopes" from pink Floyd just right before watching this video, only good choice from science studio! Thank you for learning with us!
Rock on! Thanks for watching.
For those interested, you might wonder, "Why can't I just store all these details in the 3d model being rendered and send that to the video card? Why do I have tessellation at all? (Keep in mind tessellation produces a model with a ton of triangles, so it's not like the technique helps by reducing the number of triangles in the final result. So why not just send those triangles in the first place?)"
We go through the trouble of having tessellation shaders on our GPU, because the act of tessellation avoids a common bottleneck in the rendering pipeline. In other words, it's to make things more efficient and give you more FPS for a similar amount of detail.
The reason this happens relates to the speed we can transfer data to a video card versus the speed at which the GPU's little processors can do calculations once the data is present. In general, computers are quite slow at transferring data around -- much slower than a processing unit doing calculations. So you might spend 80% of your cycle to generate a frame in a video game sending around data and 20% doing calculations on that data to produce the frame.
If you were to simply store all those details in the model, meaning a model with more triangles, you'd have to transfer all those triangles over to the GPU. And due to data transfer being a bottleneck, that might really, really hurt your FPS. Take those stairs as an example. Instead, of having tons of triangles to represent the steps and bumpiness of the stones, we just send over a flat ramp. That is waaay less data than if we were sending over the steps and all the bumps from the rocks. Once the data is in the GPU's pipeline, we then use little processors on the GPU to calculate / derive additional triangles for additional detail. That higher detail model with many more triangles is then pumped forward into the pipeline so that the result can be viewed.
this is such a crazy good explanation its actually insane
What the heck is heck?
Killer Droid what the heckinlinkity
Best explanation I've seen by far. Thank you!
good to know that it doesn't have a huge impact on performance. thanks, greg!
I think your thumbnail says it all. Tessellation makes surfaces bumpy.
This was of so second nature when talking about displacement mapping that I never really thought of it.
I can't wait for games to have life like tessellation with photorealistic graphics running at 250fps in 8k.. it'd be so beautiful.
I come from the future and we're getting close!
@@StandTallTx yes
Nice chill music at background!
Tradução para em PT-BR para brasileiros. Não manjo muito de inglês mas fiz oque pude:
-Você pode pensar em Tesselation como a divisão literal de polígonos os quais compõem os objetos que vemos em jogos e outros efeitos especiais.
-Quanto mais dividido a superfície é, mais detalhado entre aspas("quote-unquote") a superfície será retratada, desenhada no jogo.
-Se um objeto é dividido em vários triângulos, então cotando cada triangulo na metade essencialmente dobra o Fator Tesselation
.mas isso sozinho não muda nada. Se vc adicionar so mais triangulos sme fazer nada mais dinâmico com eles vc só estará sobrecarregando a GPU pra nada.
.duplicar numero d formas não muda nada se metade das formas sao fisicalmente inalteradas das originais.
1:04 essa imagem 2D mostra melhor isso
1:10 DISPLACEMENT MAPPING muda e inclina essas novas formas criadas.
.nvidia descreve Tesselation como uma textura que armazena informação de altura que ou dará aparência de um "blocky wuithout tesselation" ou uma suavidade lisa nao-realistica sem o Dispalcing Mapping.
...
1:30 Antigamente técnicas tradicionais de mapeamento d textura envolviam um nível de Oclusão, explica nesse vídeo (link)
.em resumo, alguns pixels são sombreados numa tentativa de enganar o visualizador de pensar que a forma é mais dinâmica do que realmente é
.adiciona um nível de profundidade artificial
1:46 Imagem mostrando bem isso
.explica imagem que é auto explicativa.
2:04 Basicamente, Tesselation sem Displacement Mapping não mudaria nada no objeto, e Displacement Mapping sem Tesselation tornaria a aparência do objeto extremamente "blocky"(em bloco(?))
Então ambos são necessários para os jogos parecerem reais.
2:15 GTA V:
-Em alguns casos como em GAT V, polígonos ja estão incorporando alto nível detalhes, então aumentando Tesselation não muda nada
-Vc será pressionado("hard-pressed") agora para tentar ver a diferença nessa comparação entre 2 jogos com Tesselation máximo e sem.
2:32 a variação d FPS tbm é minúscula.
2:33 HAVEN BENCHMARK
-Oferece forte contraste de Tesselation(""stark" tesselation contrast") entre presets Max e Off.
.a escada parece uma rampa sem Tesselation. O dragão também é completamente diferente (mas nao mostrou)
-ENtão dependendo de como so jogos são desenvolvidos, Tesselation é uma das cosia que você pode manipular e drasticamente impactar
a aparência e sua percepção("feel")
.
-Geralmente maximizar Tesslation não causará muito impacto no seu jogo, mas usar benchmarks te dará uma informação mais aprofundada disso.
i like things that are straight to the point.
Wow minute science and it’s 4 minutes. Unsubbed
In less then 5 years I would love everything to be able to run this in everything looks great.
4 years later how was it?
Your videos are great with proper explanation. Well, can you make one for Shader too?
Talking about triangles while wearing an pink Floyd shirt. I LIKE IT!
Small correction, the extra verteces generated by this process are modified by vertex shaders, displacement mapping is one way of using it
Love the explanation, love the T-shirt.
Keep up the good work and please, ignore the people who love to inject the others with negative feelings.
I love these videos. Insightful. Thank you
Stacy Schauls Thanks for watching!
2:36, I'd rather walk on the path on the right
I've literally searched this on google like an hour ago
Thank you for putting tesselation in a real-world environment. I am taking a math course, and I am to explain what tesselation is with an example. I will link this video to my discussion. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I love minute science
Helpful video
You sir gained a subscriber, nice video
These videos are the best 👌🏼🤓
Basically it means textures pop out more and have better placement
I love these videos.
Also that pink floyd T-shirt is real cool.
Tesselation is the feature that Nvidia keeps over using to shit on AMD GPUs.
fucking bug eyes ad
...and will it kill your frame rate? This, is 4 minute Science!
Enjoyed the explanation. We need you to work at Nasa man! Or whatever's your preferred science company 👊
Why tessellation looks so satisfying
thank you for this Greg!!!!
Have you ever made a video about the different types of AA?
Henrique Peres he did
Thanks, just watched the video.
Great video, Greg. I also love that shirt, Pink Floyd is my most favorite band. 👍😀🎵
Awesome shirt!
Ggaming Gavin Thanks!
Awesome!
so basically, instead of creating a high definition mesh (that would always remain at high definition, thus wasting resources even if it's far away) you use a medium polygon count mesh with a texture map that decide in which way vertices must be displaced after the it has been enhanced by the tessellation shader. This way you can tessellate it only when it's near the camera, while it will be its lower res counterpart in the distance, so you can save gpu resources. Is this correct?
DTSOM shirt. Nice!
The video is cool, I should watch it again though, but I thumbed up because of your t-shirt!
how many times have u changed from science studio to Salazar and back man jeez
so, theres no significan diffrent the ween tessellation on/of affect fps
How does it work for volumetric lighting like in Fallout 4?
So as far as GTA V goes, what has a bigger, if any, impact on the looks of the game as well as gpu performance, tessellation or texture quality?
well done, hope you can keep this up and keep em coming more. i love stuff like this 😍
faez Will do!
Excellent video. Perhaps in a separate video or series, more examples could be given of visual and performance impact of tessellation and displacement in a few popular, specific games, with a few common nvidia and amd graphics cards, if the results are notable at all.
That T-shirt 👍
Great video. I thought tessellation and bump mapping were one and the same
It seems as though it's underused if not unused these days tho.
1:05 "backdoor process" what does it mean ? I used google translated but got nothing.
2:33 How do you build graphics like this?
You don't need notifications if you're like me.....
Yeah it's sad.
So Tessellation is basically the same thing as using Subdivision.
Greg, none of the links in the 'video description below' are links.
TedKeyboard So copy/paste :P
why not just add before them so people can click them?
"What in tessellation!"
A thing to be careful of is with Nvidia developed or assisted games when using AMD GPUs.
Some of those games abuse the tesselation from AMD GPUs to make the game run slower on those GPUs, so it's better to turn tesselation completely off.
Never forget Radeon 8500 TruForm.
DirectX 8 Tesselation FTW!
why would anyone use bump mapping in this way for the stairs lol 2:39
you wear pink floyd, you definitely got more views!
A bit of tech trivia:tesselation was introduced to gpus by amd and not Nvidia. It was available in the Radeon 2000 series and onward but was not implemented by Microsoft in dx10/10.1. It was available in OpenGL though.
nice video 👍
I already knew about this but I liked the straightforward explanation. Good stuff.
SteelSkin667 Glad you enjoyed it!
I´m here only to know if this makes difference in the new metro exodus. Because tesselation stresses my GTX 1080 in a huge way. Like 20 FPS. But visually i can not tell a big the in the 1920 x 1080 resolution.
2:35 yeah thats how you sell an idiotic feature that nobody uses anymore nowadays... build a staircase without polygon per step... then add a tessellation mapping .... jesus how idiotic
I only like this video because of Pink Floyd.
I like how this video is quick and dirty, can you follow up with videos about MSAA/ FXAA and all that confusing stuff please.
Abdelhak Essbai Already have...
Where can I find tessellation setting in nvidia control panel?? Its breaking my squad gameplay experience :(
What is triple buffering? Do you need it with Vsync? Do you need it with GSync?
I subscribed cos you're wearing a pink floyd Tshirt before I even watched the video.
Love the shirt, man.
Could you explain what pagefile is?
I don't get it with gta V... I have a 1440p monitor, a gtx 1080 @ 2100Mhz and mem @5600. My cpu is an r5 1600 with all cores at 3.6Ghz and I seemingly can't get the game to utilise my gpu or cpu to its fullest but still not get above 45fps. My ddr4 is running at 3200Mhz so that should be fine and other games like skyrim run maxed out with Vsync at 60 all the time... I did all the usual stuff like updating drivers and redownloading the game but can't find the problem. How would you guys handle a problem like this?
Blue Not pair an r5 with a gtx 1080 XD
David Finnegan You have no idea what you're talking about, a Ryzen 5 1600 and GTX 1080 are fine together especially at 1440p...
Of course Nviditards would say that.
A R5 is more than capable of handling a 1080,in fact,it's better than some i5's EASILY when overclocked.
It wouldn't even bottleneck a SLI GTX 1080Ti set-up you little snot.
He also SPECIFIED it's just GTA V,not other games.
If nothing fixes it you should do a clean windows install, update your BIOS, chipset drivers, graphics drivers and then try again, that ought to solve your issues
David Finnegan i have the excact same build as blue and let me tell you, it works perfectly. I dont understand why you think it is a stupid idea
Tessellation is advanced bump/normal mapping. There, didn't need a video to explain that.
Minute science is the type of thing I like to bingewatch, yay for more binging.
So basically tesselation is just another term for mesh subdivision?
So I don't know if it was a mistake but the hyperlinks in the descriptions are only able to be copied and pasted not directed to the sites; including your patreon.
Hear after a 2042 dev said they’re working on that during delay lmao
Thank you for the video. I Pink Floyd still making music?
R u mad that the Define C now comes with a TG side panel? I am... Bought my Mini c a few months ago
I should start a channel like this on other topics that don't get covered that much.. before i go senile.. it has already started
you have a whatsapp chat, can I be part of it, that'll be fun!!!!!!!!
Your oppinion on Vega or Threadripper (weather you read this or not big fan)
Did you received your thread ripper kit from AMD ????
Huge respect to you for being pink Floyd fan
What happen to your sound bar speaker? what model was it.
GREAT VIDEO. Thanks you.
I only buy Nvidia.
do the consoles have this feature?
First
To not give a fuck about being first.
Aye thanks for this. I had a relatively good understanding of it, but this clarified somethings I didn't know :D
Circles without tesselation make me want to throw up!
How does parallax mapping fit into this?
"this, is minute science"
4 minute later
@Sience Studio -> You can see tessellation i GTA 5, if you stand very close to a palm tree, or you are driving in the mountain with dirt roads. The dirt and stones pops out. The same goes for the palm tree, you can see a lot of shapes in the wood. But the tessellation drawing distance is very narrow in GTA 5. When you are driving on a dirty road, you can actually see when the tessellation starts and end while driving.