Once Upon a Time | How August Got The Shaft
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
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For those who remember Once Upon a Time, it was a lightning in a bottle series that ran on ABC from 2011 until 2018. Its first three seasons were something else, but the way my favourite character got treated...well the salt is coming out!
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Neal/Bealfire was done wrong. I adamantly believe that he was killed off to focus on pairing Emma with Hook. I loved the twist that Rumple's son being Henry's father and saw it coming from the moment Rumple's son storyline. I didn't buy into Hook and Emma as end game. In my opinion, I think they should have written August and Neal working together to aid Emma in breaking the curse.
Would Neal have wanted the curse broken though? With it in place that means Rumple is trapped in Storybrooke, so would he want to risk reuniting?
@@BetterWithBob I think so. I believe it would have eaten at him that a whole society was cursed because of him. I originally imagined, after the Hansel and Gretel episode, that Bealfire, Emma's baby daddy, freaked out once he learned that Emma was from the Enchanted Forest and was terrified that she was a pawn for his father to find him and thus was the reason why Emma was in prison. I then thought that, in regret, he teamed up with August to o aid Emma in breaking the curse, reinforced by what August knew in order to con Rumple the way he did. I formed my theory before season 2 aired. Neal/Bealfire was appalled and somewhat fearful of his father's actions after becoming the dark one. He also sacrificed himself to Pan's shadow for the Darling kids... Sure he was kinda a dirt bag as an adult but dude was seriously traumatized by the dark one and Pan. He deserved as much redemption as August did as you argued for August. Regardless of whether or not he and Emma became endgame, it was still done dirty to kill him off just to make it easier to make way for Emma and Hook. The writers missed a perfect opportunity to have August and Neal be a team to fight against the curse and other later threats, regardless of any love interest subplots for their characters.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I aleays rthought the potential with Neal/Baelfire was wasted as with many things in this show. But this one bother me the most. Especially when we entered the dark swan era. Having a reminder of what could have been. The son of the dark one having his life ruined by this force only for the love of his life and mother of his son becoming this exact same thing. It would have been great so have Neal deal with that situation, especially as the active LI of Emma. Never got over this point, I really liked the idea of Neal but as you said, it was clear they butchered the story just to fit Hook due to popularity contest.
I feel like they had plans but Captain Swan just bungled it all up and the show is sloppier for it.
I blame the shippers.
He was a 100% casted as a love interest and I would have loooooved to see them together.
You make a really good case for them as a couple.
Thank you!
One of my favorite lines from Emma to Neal: "You left me and let me go to prison because Pinocchio told you to?". Lol I love the episode in season 2 regarding Thanksgiving where the Charming's are doing a rundown of the family upon realizing that Rumpelstiltskin's son is Henry's father 😂... Next favorite would be when Regina realizes that Rumple is Henry's grandfather 🤣. It's crazy that Regina is Henry's adoptive mother and Step Great-Grandmother. Rumple had the hots for Regina's mom Cora and was involved with both daughters (not necessarily romantically). Hook hooked up with Rumple's wife and married her son's ex. Pan & the Black Fairy are Rumple's parents and Pan was willing to steal his own grandson's heart since it was the heart of the truest believer. Black fairy stole her own grandson (Gideon) abused and raised him to kill his half-nephew's mother (Emma) since she is the savior. Zelena tricks/abuses her half sister's boyfriend and baby traps him and then Zelena's boyfriend Hades murders Regina's true love... Yeah love the show but explaining how everyone is related can be a hard sell for some folks 😅. Also if you like August/Pinocchio's actor he's a main character in the new horror tv series From, the second season just started and it's almost over. It better get renewed for a third season.
August always bothered me as an addition to OUAT and now that I've seen your video I think I understand why: every half baked plotline the writers came up with would have been VASTLY improved if they'd realized how much thematic resonance August would have brought to it. Imagine August in Neverland! He would have fit in with the lost boy narrative so much. As much as I loved Hook, I was so upset when Robin was gone for good and Regina couldn't have her HEA but the writing swooped in to find a loophole for Hook. I would love to see you do a deconstruction of the awful Camelot "arc." Honestly I thought the Neverland arc was awful but after Camelot I went back to Neverland and went "oh no, this was actually as good as it got isn't it?"
Oh I loved the Neverland arc lol. For me it's the best one. I did like Snow and Emma going back to the EF but it suffered from being too on/off
@Better With Bob? Maybe a video on what works about the neverland arc for so many ppl bc i never liked it and i need to know why other ppl do😂
@@amourtabb7859 I really enjoyed the Neverland arc, there are many things I loved about it but one of the things I loved the most was Peter Pan, he was ruthless and manipulative and just overall fantastic as a villain
I would love to see more Once Upon a Time content. You captured everything about August very well. I can even ignore the fact that I hate Robin Hood with a unrivaled passion for how he played with my girl Regina's heart, if you plan to make a video dedicated to the Forest Hobo.
Possibly one day
This was beautiful. It really takes me back to that romantic period I had with this show. That slate of OUAT, Revenge, 666 Park Avenue then ending the night with Shamless. ❤ The second half of season 4 was weak but had a strong ending. But season 5.... it hurt me to see a show fall so hard.
I know the feeling. There were a couple late S4 episodes I liked such as Poor Unfortunate Soul and Sympathy For the De Ville but a weak arc for sure
I kinda loved s5 the most
I think what hurt her was the characters didnt fit the plot . Dark Emma made sense in her orgin but the Rest was a mix of good ideas executet from just ok to bad. S7 and 6 Redemed the Show and I still think the Dark Swan Arc was my fav arc even if i would have liked things diferent
@indedgames4359 Dark Swan was my least favorite arc. It ruined the show for me. It had SOOO much potential but it just fell flat. Disney was just too scared to really go there. Obviously she couldn't stay a villian forever but to kill Merlin and then the stuff with Killian and the haphazard Olympus tie in. None of it worked. You could tell the writers were out of ideas. I felt bad for the cast because you could tell none of them believed anything their characters said or did.
im glad you said about the neal being baelfire. yes, he played baelfire like he didnt fully believe in the other world. it was weird but i could never put my finger on what it was about him that i didnt like, this is the best it could be put
Thank you 🙂
I like how you bring up redemption and how August deserved it just as much as Regina and the other characters. And If anything, I felt he deserved it more than she did and a lot of other characters who got "redeemed". It's a long story, but I essentially think Regina and Rumple (quite frankly maybe almost all villains) can still do a lot to redeem themselves, where as August didn't get that chance. I felt they did a lot of take two steps forward, than back (which is realistic), but at the same time, I feel with how it was written, that the writers seem to forgive villains too quickly, or easily. Also, felt as time went on, that the writers made sillier reasons for villains to turn evil. Especially when a lot of other characters (and well, people in real life) have experienced a lot these things, but never turned evil. So I really feel like a lot of villains have poor excuses to be horrible people to begin with, so why would I really think Hook is good enough for Emma? Can someone realistically change that drastically in a couple of years? Are decades of horrible acts suddenly are forgiven after only a couple of years of someone behaving themselves? That's essentially what it felt like to me and I can't easily forgive and forget.
I'm a bit more forgiving of Regina because of much of a plaything she was of everyone else. She was willing to move past Snow snitching on her but between Cora and Rumple manipulating her and trying to use her for their own purposes, she never had the chance to be anything else. Snow sometimes seems just as bad, but Regina just constantly suffers and never catches a break. Even her 'happy ending' at the end of the series doesn't feel that happy, since she never wanted to be queen and only ended up as one because of her mother's manipulations. Regina only ever wanted love and she's still alone by the end of the series.
@@BetterWithBob I feel Snow wasn't as perfect either and should've been addressed more too. Regina out of all villains does make the most sense. At first her initial reason seemed ridiculous, but with the introduction of Cora and her being kind of the source, it gave more weight as to why Regina would be the way she is, especially towards Snow. I feel Regina did deserve better than what she got even though she isn't a favorite of mine. Even if she actually ended up with Robin and it was perfect, I felt as if they weren't really right just like Emma/Hook. There was no chemistry and I felt it was pushed, because there was fans of Robin and there were no other options, as Hook was busy having fans that were obsessed with him being with Emma.
@@Rachel-xu4br I did find that Sean Maguire and Lana Parrilla had some chemistry. Enough to sell me on the pairing
I'm really disappointed by the lack of OUAT video essays on this site, because there is SO much to dissect and talk about!
August was SUCH a major player in season 1, and the fact he practically disappears in season 2 is just bizarre. I kinda suspect he was lopped off once they decide Hook was going to be a more major player, even though I am a big Hook fan.
Also, I 100% agree with you on the Neal/Baelfire twist. Like, there a thousand possibilities of what could have happened to Baelfire and they went with THAT? Seriously?
Supposedly it was planned from the beginning but I don't think that makes it a good idea 😅
Also if they wanted to go with hook, just make emma and augustin more like estranged siblings. Which they basically are anyways. Such a waste. Leave him as support character at least. Make him just emmas sibling, ok.
Ok star wars could do it and emma and august they could oh we are siblings and just stay friends.
I like hook, and neil and oth could have ben around while her getting with hook , jut sibling zone with auguust as , oh that would be weird and neil, just stay coparents ok. And hook still would have worked with them around.
And august rekindle and deal with their baggage. and his guilt.
God killing love interests if ther eare more interesting ways is so lazy.
More Once Upon a Time, please!
I have one on Zelena already written and one planned for Ingrid, who's my favourite villain
@@BetterWithBob Yes! So excited!
Lilly was done so dirty. Written off the screen with no explanation in the show because the actress got pregnant. Even though there were ways to keep the actress and character on screen with her pregnant.
Yeah and they dropped her planned story because they couldn't get the rights to Zorro
I enjoyed both the neal and captain hook romance plotlines due to certain tropes I like. But I agree, August (or Regina for that matter) should have been given the chance to be a proper love interest.
I also think Regina and Robin Hood were a good match.
I feel the show worked better before they made the switch to two half arcs with different villains. I liked season 2 best and yet I watched all seven seasons hoping things would get better.
Ooh that's an unpopular opinion I've noticed in the fandom. Most seem to hate Season 2 and think Season 3 was better
Great summation! August had been done wrong as so many other OUAT characters. Just another supporting example for that theory that A&E got a whole lot of help from Damon Lindelof of Lost fame. There is an old inverview where they basically say they went into a meeting with Damon with an idea for a show ann came out of it with the pilot. I am personally convinced it was Damon who outlined the storylines of season 1 and 2 and wrote the show's Bible for them. Because the tone and style and consistency takes a sharp dip in season 3 and never recovers. The Showrunners were not up to the task writing this show. It is so plain to see based on their body of work. When not lead by stronger writers the quality of A&E work is on the same level as season 5 everywhere else. That's how you get the "Disney invasion" in season 4 when the ratings took a beating and they panicked. That's why if you watch an episode of season 1 and season 4 or 5 or later back to back -- it's like watching an entirely different show. I have my own underused favorite character (Ruby), but when they brought her back after forgetting she existed for a few seasons the wrap-up for her was better than August's. Still not perfect (they obviously pulled the plug on Ruby/Mulan because people had guessed and it was the time in TV you had to 'subvert expectations' at all costs) but overall good send-off for the character. Unlike what they did for August, Neal, Tink, and many more. Not to mention the complete destruction of Emma's character at the alter of a popular ship. I fully believe that for the general audience and not superfans like us it was Lana and Bobby who by sheer charisma and acting talent had time after time transformed bad scripts into amazing performances and basically carried the show, allowing it to stay on air for as long as it did.
Oh that's interesting for sure. I noticed that in Season 4 they suddenly had every character try and visually match the Disney one they were corresponding to.
This was also around the time Disney was starting to roll out their live action remakes. Can't tell if the show inspired them or they used it as a sort of test of concept
True words. I really hope you make more videos like this, having more OUAT content after all these years is fantastic. And I thank you for your work. I only have one thing to add. That Bael was Henry's father was not a retcon, it was decided from the first season and the actress who plays Emma knew it from the first day of filming. (There is an interview about it but I can't find it). This series has so many Retcons, but this is not one of them.
And yes, Captain Swan contributed to destroying the series. Not to say that it was the main reason.
My apologies. I wasn't trying to say it was a retcon. I just felt like it shouldn't have been given to the same character
Like you I found the show late (Binging seasons 1-5 before season 6 premiered) and although I didn't hate season 5 I understand why people do. My biggest issue with the show as a whole is how many characters they introduced to just do nothing with. August, Whale, Aurora, Mulan, etc, etc. I would love more videos about OUAT. I also have to say though the last season isn't great, I would die for Alice and Robin.
Yes they were very cute together. And yay for being regulars instead of a random one episode pairing
Rewatching shows I loved in my tweens / teens is so fascinating because of how much *I* have changed. How I'm so much more aware of power dynamics and toxic behavior in relationships, and how I was too blinded by Hook's looks to care how their pairing would work
It does sort of require us to forget a lot of things the show established about him
I can’t wait for more videos on This show. It’s so entertaining to watch and remember all the crazy things they did
Hehe hopefully I don't disappoint
Looking forward to this video coming soon! Have you ever planned on making a Graham video? I thought it was kind of horrible how they glossed over what happened to him and never really fully acknowledged it, nor did I feel Regina redeemed herself when it comes to what she done to him. I know the actor moved onto other things, but I felt the plotline with Graham and August as well, are the few thing I didn't like about the show. Also, thought they could've written out and treated Baelfire better as well.
Random, but unlike BTVS where there were clear rules set and honored (for example Buffy being able to come back, but not Tara due to it being "natural causes"), OUAT has a habit of making up reasons why certain people couldn't return, yet others were able to keep constantly coming back despite those reasons.
Hmm I'd never thought about Graham too much but that's food for thought for sure
@@BetterWithBob It was such a long time ago since it was at the beginning, but I always wondered if the gender roles were reversed how the writers would have dealt with it. Male victims of assault don't normally get the justice they deserve, heard, or taken seriously, so it's one of the hardest things for me to watch on the show when not only he went through being used like that by Regina, but was killed just to prevent him from being with anyone else and no one even knows. As the audience we know, but no one else ever finds out. In my opinion it's one of the more darker moments on the show, but as you mentioned in your video as well, not every ending has a happy ending unfortunately on this show.
@Rachel I thought and felt the same way about the actors/characters. But my list of wronged characters is much longer. And they are reason why I stopped watching the show.
Not that the character(s) were needed to move the storyline forward but some of the character(s) were well written and interesting and in the next season uninteresting & boring. And as Better with Bob has stated the main character's arcs were fulfilled by SE 4, everything else was filler to make up for the wonky CGI they used. I'm sure it was more expensive than hiring actual reenactors or extras.
We did get a chance - Sis and me - to watch the musical EP the final EP.
🎥 🎥 🎥
@@hameley12 Unfortunately as much as I didn't like OUAT eventually towards the end, I still continued to watch. Maybe I thought magically the ending would be suddenly amazing? I wish they wrapped it up after S4, because it's true that everyone seemed essentially done at that point. After that it seemed like messy fan service and filler. I wish the musical episode came out sooner rather than later. It would've been interesting seeing it in the context of the era of season one, or two.
From what I heard, it was basically a payday for everyone after a while and they all got on well together so they kept it going longer than it should have
Has anyone written an AU where August didn't ditch Emma and grew up with her as her brother, but never telling her the truth because he genuinely thought it was something his eight-year-old self made up to cope with him and Emma being abandonned by their parents? He and Emma grew up in the system, and ran away together. He was there to be the "protective older brother" for Emma while she's with Neal, and becomes Henry's fun uncle. Please tell me this exists, because I love this idea but don't have the time/energy/resources to write it myself.
I'm sure someone somewhere probably has
I'd love for you to do a dive into Regina. She was my favorite. She added so much depth to the Evil Queen character
Now that would be a lot to unpack
It's also great content!
I was about to go to bed…but guess I’m staying up a little longer for this! 😅
Ah my apologies
I always liked August, and agreed that he (and a lot of characters) got the shaft.
(I stopped watching OUAT when they introduced Frozen.)
I would be interested in a video on why you don't like Hook.
You'll be even more surprised when you learn I actually love the Frozen arc lol
Yes I absolutely agree that August’s ending was so disappointing. Once Upon A Time’s biggest problem as a show was dropping so many interesting side characters before satisfactorily resolving their stories, and dragging out main characters stories long after they should have been over. And yes, Snow and David were a perfect example of that. The two of them going to the underworld after they had another child made no sense. The whole point of their arc is that they wanted a second chance to be there for their kid like they weren’t there for Emma. They should have stopped being the focus of the show after that.
And yes I never liked Hook with Emma either, especially after he became the dark one and ruined her dark one storyline. It really did rely on the viewer forgetting of Hook’s previous bad actions without addressing them. Though to be fair I felt like the show had that problem with Regina and Rumplestiltskin too. Sure audience, Regina’s becoming good now, let's just forget the fact that she locked up Sydney and Belle for most of their lives (I maintain dealing with Lacey and Sydney;s mental and emotional issues from that would have been a really interesting story line).
Yeah and they kept punishing Regina and making her suffer for her past mistakes and no one else
I rewatch the whole of OUAT every couple years so I think the Emma/Hook pairing grew on me, but watching your video reminded me of a time - when I first watched - and felt unsatisfied by August's storyline. How you've put it in terms of August making more sense to the overall plot makes a lot more sense. I've never enjoyed Neal's presence. Camelot is a hot (boring) mess. Can't wait for the next episode! Thank you!!
Thanks for watching 🙂
Do the Mad Hatter next! It was a crime how they abandoned his storyline
Wasn't his storyline resolved when he reunited with his daughter?
@@BetterWithBob technically yes, in S2E3, but then he played a huge part in the flashbacks of S2E5 as if he was going to continue being a major character, only for us to never see him again. I suppose it would be more accurate to say they abandoned the character, not his storyline. Plus it was so strange that they did the wonderland spin off without him ever making an appearance
I need more discussion about Neal!!! I loved Neal and I wished we could have kept him. I mean I wish we would've had more flashbacks with henry and neal.
How so?
It just makes me SO HAPPY that there are other men who like the shows I like. It gets kind of... lonely sometimes, in fandom with shows like these. Thank you for making these videos. They mean a lot to me.
Aw I know a good few guys who love it too.
@@BetterWithBob You do?? That's awesome!
The day of this upload I was even telling my barber about the video and he went "oh yeah I used to love that show"
@@BetterWithBob That's lovely! Most guys I've asked hadn't heard of it.
You make so many valid points...but i still feel the others had the potential to be "the one" for Emma. I'd love to know your thoughts on how they could've done better with other male love interests (not just Emma)
Robin Hood was a good match for Regina and they should have let him live. Regina's ending is so unhappy if you think about it - she never wanted to be queen, that was all Cora's wishes, and she just wanted love. So even though she's crowned the Good Queen, she's still alone
Don't forget the retcon of August seeing child Emma and telling her The Ugly Duckling story. The reason she chose Swan as her name. Eion was also in Buffy Season 1 episode The Pack.
I hate that Buffy episode so I rarely rewatch it but might do for him ha
I had such the biggest crush on August. He was a wide eyed believer.
Understandable lol
Thank you so much for covering this I couldn’t agree more. I almost rage quit the show when they turned him back into a child. I also found it very frustrating when Jefferson was written out of the current timeline early season two but he kept popping up in flashbacks with awesome characters like Dr. Frankenstein and Regina just to taunt us 😂
It did seem like his storyline ended reuniting with his daughter so I was alright enough with it 🤔
@@BetterWithBob I’m glad he got a happy ending and all but Sebastian Stan, leaving for the MCU completely screwed the Wonderland spin off. He was originally supposed to have a much bigger role in both series and they had to do Wonderland without My favorite incarnation of the hatter. Alice literally goes to his house in the second episode and there is no hatter we’re supposed to be satisfied with his abandoned house 🤦♀️ I don’t blame him at all for taking the role with marvel just wish Disney wasn’t so evil with their contracts bc he could’ve at least done the Wonderland spinoff if he didn’t wanna work with Jennifer after they broke up
I recently rewatched the show too. Only the first 3 seasons that are actually good though, and after that only the episodes with August. And I felt utterly betrayed at how few episodes there are. I agree 100 percent with all of your points.
The sixth season, with him in the wish realm and his influence on Emma choosing her name was kinda nice. But then they fu*ked up again by not even bothering to give him an ending, let alone a happy one. He ended up tapping on his typewriter forever? The least they could do was invite him to Emma’s wedding??? Did he just vanish? (Not even counting the S7 ending when he was a kid again, wtf)
Rewatching the first season, seeing his chemistry with Emma, I thought for a minute that they did date briefly. I had to google it to make sure. However, I think it wouldn’t have worked out, given how much guilt he felt towards her. And with what he did with Neal, causing her to go to prison, and then taking the money? There would have been too much baggage between them… which would still be a more compelling story than Captain Swan. And if Jennifer and Colin’s chemistry could sell that, her chemistry with Eion would have made their story a hundred times better. (The ship name is Wooden Swan btw)
I remember being a big Captain Swan shipper the first time watching, well, I was 15 and found Hook cool. But this time around I found it actually creepy!! He was like 500 years older than her, was Henry’s grandmother’s lover, AND worse of all, he literally forced Emma to kiss him in Neverland when she was grieving for Neal and her kidnapped son. Creepy! It could have been a short-lived hookup (no pun intended), maybeee, but it should NOT have been endgame… with a musical wedding and all that…
*about to binge whatever recaps you have for this show*
I've literally watched the first 4 seasons at least 5 times over and was recently thinking about rewatching it again and this pops up on my feed .......yay lol
It's a sign haha
This show is like kingdom hearts on crack and kingdom hearts is already on crack
I completely agree
It's basically the closest thing to a live action Kingdom Hearts tbh
It's a video game franchise that's a massive crossover between Disney worlds. Maleficent is the leader of the Disney villains in the first game
Thank you for this. The push of the love story between Hook and Enma seriously hurt the show. August deserved better, as did Balefire. I blame the "Shippers"!
waouh! you nailed it! I have to confess I didn't know this show and binged watched it only three months ago so it's pretty recent in my mind and I totally agree with you. Thanks!
Oh a new fan. I hope you enjoyed the majority of your viewing :)
Even if we have different favorite characters, most fans can agree at some point the show went sour. Along with August, there are so many characters that got dropped and ruined by the writing. I attempted a rewatch and see if I can get into season 4, but I couldn't get through knowing what was coming. I'm okay with Hook as a separate character (probably more okay with him than the women I would talk to online about the show) but couldn't stand SwanCaptain. His redemption was rushed compared to what they did with Regina, and how many times they flip flopped with Rumple. I can't believe they made him a Dark One too?! It always felt like Rumple vs. Hook, and it wasn't even a love triangle.
And in Season 4 when he was trying to get his hand back, he was acting all smarmy and shameless and I was like "dude, you stole his wife, let him believe she was gang SA'd by pirates for years and left his son motherless, stfu"
@@BetterWithBob yeah, I know Rumple was far from saintly, but c'mon Hook wasn't prince charming (pun intended).They could still keep him without having to make him a love interest for Emma. The writers clearly had favorites.
I just finished rewatching OUAT. While I definitely agree about August's story being literally only wasted potential, I actually do like Emma and Killian together more than Emma and August. Emma and Killian don't belong together in the way that Snow and David do. But they make it work, like real life couples instead of fairytale couples. I don't see the romantic connection between Emma and August. But again, you're absolutely right about how badly they screwed up his story 😅
Thank you for the OUAT content. I like to forget I was so into due to how much they messed it up. I'd love more videos, particularly about the toxic Belle and Rumpel romance.
oh that would be a very depressing video, but interesting for how like with Mulan, it highlights how the show leaned into more of pop culture's view of the characters than the actual Disney versions
More of Once Upon A Time please, pretty please. This was once my favorite show when it was airing. I love the characters. And I'm very curious to hear about your opinion on Season 7 since you didn't mention anything about it.
Honestly I didn't watch too much of it. Only a handful of episodes and the finale
I think one of my biggest issues with OUAT was the true love aspect. It worked at first but as the show grew longer and more and more characters kept being introduced it started hurting relationships in the show, imo. Especially with true love = toxic in some cases. Now I actually don't remember August at all lol, but I do remember the Sheriff, Neal/Bealfire, etc so I'm curious why I don't remember such an important character.
He was only in the first season and even then only half of it so understandable lol
@@BetterWithBob I remember! This is wild but I've actually never watched a full season of OUAT. Like I really liked it at first but after the huntsman was killed (and how they kept going on and on about how a character was going to die) I started watching the show inconsistently. Like I skipped eps, arcs (e.g. Camelot), but still watched at least a few eps of each season. I'm pretty sure I never saw the eps with August except him turning into a kid lol. Whoops!
I followed OUAT until the bitter end because I was (and frankly still am) obsessed with Regina. But I definitely shipped SwanQueen and despised OutlawQueen. Robin and Regina's relationship was so forced. Just because he had a lion tattoo, he was her soulmate...boom, no need for relationship development over time, which the show at least gave to CaptainSwan, so that relationship bothers me less.
I saw Once Upon a Time through to the end exclusively with the hopes that August would eventually return and get a full arc because it felt impossible for the writers to create such a compelling character and then just dump him. Still pissed they did my boy so dirty but at least I can appreciate Eion's brilliant acting and the sheer potential of what could've been.
Also fuck Captain Swan. Ridiculous ship, what were they thinking?
All of this aside Rumple calling his son Bae made me cringe so hard every. Time. He. Said. It.
From before it took of as a term but still 😂
THANK YOU! I agree. For years I've said the same thing. I loved the Pinocchio character. I did not like Emma with Neal or Hook. I stopped watching when Robin died.
Omg i just rewatched ouat and i need more analysis of the show😊
Hehe give me time
This definitely did not disappoint
Thank you kindly
Loved August lots, and I would not have been upset if he and Emma were endgame. But I also loved Hook and very much agree the actor was born to play a villain. My love for him allowed me to overlook the issues with their pairing at first, then the Dark Swan arc just made it heavy and unpleasant. (Still very much adore Killian, though.) I also liked Neil and felt he would have made a good platonic partner for Emma, where she and he both got to see Henry grow up...but ultimately, Emma should have married Regina. She and Regina were Henry's true parents and they were the perfect couple. Emma was the perfect "husband" for Regina and nothing will ever change my mind on that one.
I do want to say, though, that Regina was not Henry's "stepmother" nor was she abusive. She was his adoptive mother, and adoptive mothers are real and valid and important. Emma *chose* to give Henry up. Regina *wanted* him and chose to love him. She was distant and cold and rather strict, which can be harmful but isn't abuse and is a result of both being raised by an *actually* abusive mother and having her literal heart in a box for ten years. Even then, she made sure Henry had the best of everything, she tried really hard to connect and make him happy (again, having her own trauma and literal heartlessness as a foil). And after Emma arrived, she got stricter, then less strict, then proved herself to be as loving and devoted as any mother could be. She loved Henry before she even got her heart back. She wasn't the warmest mother, but she was absolutely not abusive.
Regina WAS abusive in Seasons 1-2 but she made steps to correct that. She did spend ten years gaslighting him before Emma came onto the scene and wasn't above using him to get back at Emma in those early episodes
I've been looking forward to this since your YT post and it did not disappoint! Its a show I've not stopped thinking about since it stopped airing, and I enjoy how you breakdown and analyse characters, so hope there's more OUAT content to come...especially if you do one on Hook, cos even though he's one of my favourite characters, I really enjoy your work and want to see your complete thoughts on him.
I have one on Zelena and how she became one of my favourite characters on the way :)
I actually mostly agree with this, and you explain it better than I ever could LOL as much as I love this show, I can very much acknowledge all the points that were completely dropped when they SHOULDN'T have been. Glad to see someone else sees it too 🤣
I only disagree with one thing of yours though, and I hope you share a thought with me on it: I actually disagree with you on Emma and Hook. I actually like their pairing more than ANY of the other ones, Regina's included (she's my favorite character, as I imagine everyone else's too LOL). And thats because I think theirs is the only one who really ISN'T given the "destined" moniker and timeline. As great as Regina and Robin were, the first thing you learned about him was Regina was SUPPOSED to be with him to begin with 🤦🏾♂️ like literally destined. She rejected it back then because of her fear. So she had to earn it back. Which I was ecstatic to experience but it just made me go "ugh why was Regina so dumb" everytime I saw them 🤣
What Emma and Hook give each other is realness. Something literally no other couple in here have. Every other couple is either pre established or destined. Theirs is the only ORGANIC grown couple in the whole show, which is exactly what they needed. Hook said it best in the later seasons "we weren't some fairy tale or pre destined pairing. We FOUGHT for our love and we won". That is arguably my favorite line in the show because he's exactly right. She gave him a very REAL person who can call him on his shxt but accept him for who he is. He gives her a very REAL person who doesn't see her as the Savior or someone godly figure but just a normal girl who has been through shxt that he relates to and can comfort her on.
She trusts him because she knows that he understands her. And vice versa. Which is honestly the BIGGEST example of the entire point of the show, true love makes anything possible 💯
Once Upon A Time was weird about how it used characters. Few very of them hit the sweet spot for screen time, either staying past their usefulness or having their stories cut short prematurely. It’s disappointing because season one and a lot of the next two were so strong.
@SamKathryn Sometimes the main cast is brought in for a read and acting session, once approved they can't get out of their contract. But guest stars, VIP stars, and even extras can become part time to full time character. Yes, they wrote interesting characters but misused them and put them on the warming bench, sometimes those actors had other projects to do with other filming companies. Which is annoying! They write an interesting, well rounded character and next season they are killed off or send off to... I don't know where... but send off in case they are needed again. OUAT isn't the first or last series to do this with its main cast or guests, Angel [the vampire], Buffy Vampire Slayer, The Pretender, West Wing, Supernatural, X-Files to name a few have put their character through the grinder and discarded them, even seasoned, A listers, were treated this way.
I know Mulan got shafted because Jamie Chung was cast in another series and it wasn't until that got cancelled that she could reappear. But even then, if they'd made her a regular and done her justice...
Ruby likewise got shunted aside in favour of the Greg/Tamara stuff and they actually released Meghan Ory from her contract so she could look for other roles
@Better With Bob? Yes. I read about it, too. It seems like it depends on various factors on how long you can stay on the show until the arc gets resolved or your character gets axed. But these characters are fascinating to study and break down to learn what works and what doesn't. As a writer, I love doing that, and you seem to enjoy it too. 😊 ✍️
Yeah it's all about contracts. If you're a regular then you have to either be in every episode or be on call to give the show priority. If you're recurring then you're contracted for X number of episodes and then it's a juggling game of dealing with the schedules for other projects
Hook and Emma are THE reason for me to rewatch this whole thing. Probably my favourite TV couple ever. I'm so confused with your take, lol, couldn't disagree more. But hey! To each his own. ✌️✌️
Differing opinions are what makes the world great
God I forgot how both August and Sheriff Graham were hot !!
I believe that the ship name you're looking for is Wooden Swan. You were close!
Something to do with wood anyway 😂
Been hanging out for this one ❤
Aww thank you :)
I was always thinking that the actor who plays August looks like Jason Patrick .
Yeah I see it too
Happy to see I was the 100th like on this video btw. Good analysis and breakdown 😁 love all your video's
Thank you kindly :)
it’s challenging to get to the point because so many different topics are mentioned. The theme of “wasted potential” particularly applies to characters like August, Rubi, and the Mad Hatter. I agree that the first season of the series was incredibly good, but it’s disappointing how characters and relationships were neglected, for example, between grandson and grandfather or best friends, which is really a shame. I find it especially regrettable that “villain” characters like Zelena and Hook got their happy endings while Regina was denied happiness. The relationship between Hook and Emma, which I found toxic, was needlessly romanticized. The sixth season was the worst for me, and I don’t understand what the creators were thinking. Nevertheless, I found the last season surprisingly good, especially Regina’s reflection. Overall, despite my criticisms, I consider the series almost perfect, mainly because of the costumes and actors, but also because of its unique concept.
They kept making Regina suffer when she was the one villain who had no choice in her own evil, since both Cora and Rumple used her for their plans
OUAT had a lot of handsome men. Captain Hook and August being 2 of them… lord have mercy.
You got yourself a subscriber this is an amazing videos
Thank you very much :)
I loved this show so much ^^ I only stopped watching in season 7, not bcs of the time skip and the aged-up (and recast) Henry, but bcs they introduced another Cinderella. Like, her story was finished already, she got her happy end, she even cameo'd at least twice each season and that was fine. But now there was another and entirely different character called Cinderella, just to be Henry's love interest? Were there no other fairy tale princesses left to fill this role, so they had to go and remake a character they'd already done?
That was the point where I stopped watching, like Ep 2-ish from S7.
I put up with quite a lot, bcs the characters and stories were interesting and *kinda* made sense in-universe (and everything connected to everything else xD) but this literal remake? Nope. No.
On a side note: I'd love to see a movie put together from all the backflash-bits in chronological order, from the very start up until Emma first arrived in Storybrooke.
That would be cool 😊
So, I may not remember the show very well, I watched it a long time ago. If I misremember something, I'm sorry.
First of all, I had mixed feelings regarding August. He was interesting character, don't get me wrong. But I really didn't like when he started working with Baelfire/Neal. I mean, in what world was it logical to abandon Emma at that moment. How is it good to leave her and not tell her the truth?
Yeah, she wouldn't believe it, but leaving her caused her more trauma. Why couldn't they both prepare her mentally for what's to come? Train her, perhaps. This made them look extremely bad, and I really couldn't feel for them after that, although August was still more sympathetic in my eyes.
Second, I was fine wit Emma and Hook in the beginning, when it was new, exciting, worked woth his bad boy persona. After they became a couple, and Hook was done with his arc, he was nothing, mere love interest. Not a character.
When they did the Dark Swan arc and he died I thought he would stay dead. But no. They brught him back probably because people liked him, even though he had no purpose for existing anymore. I guess they wanted a happy ending for Emma, but I really didn't care at this point.
Three, since I talk about love interest apparently, Neal. I absolutely agree he is a different character than Bael. More of an alter ego, rather than a natural way he developed from childhood.
Also they shouldn't feel hard to write as love interest if they have other things about them, outside from having relationship with Emma. Especially noticible when it comes to Hook. Like I said, as long as he had his own arc, he was fine as a love interest (altough I agree that tahta relationship should not be long term). With his arc done, he was an empty shell that existed solely for Emma, which is just boring.
Yeah it was too backwards with which man died. Emma didn't need a man for her happy ending. She needed her family and Henry, and she got that. Regina meanwhile - her unhappiness came from not being able to be with the man she loved, so Robin should have lived
My mum was obsessed with this show
Give it a watch and you'll understand why ha
@@BetterWithBob Tried. Not my thing bro
I started the show with season 1 back in 2011, each season was so good until season 5, it was too complicated for my 17 years old self and it was just weird. I still haven’t finished season 6 and never started season 7.
The end of Season 6 is pretty decent. Jaime Murray injects a lot of life into the show as the Black Fairy, and so does Giles Mathey as Gideon
omg it's happening
and yeah! he fucking did!
Here we go lol
@@BetterWithBob he deserved better is what I meant lol. I was so excited I typed nonsense.
i swear this show Games of Thrones'd before Games of Thrones did. My best friends and I were completely nutters about this show and then... yeah basically ... just stopped being good. (I think as you said, most likely season 4). I truthfully believe that Swanocchio should have been the end pairing. (OR ultimately, someone w/o magic at all with zero ties to the Enchanted Forest).
You had August/Pinocchio who Bae was supposed to be (enchanted/real life) the same as Emma vs.
Joe Blow who was 100 percent non magical, but could choose to believe but ultimately did not want a fairy tale life
Emma was the middle who couldn't believe (because she had a hard life), and straddled the line between wanting a non magical life. and i get that Neal was "joe blow" but his actor just was not doing it but also he was connected to rumple so he was more of a discount August.
this show did Eoin Bailey so wrong it wasn't even funny. (and it was really crazy especially i'd say even season 3-4 they really worked hard to make Regina/Rumple the centre of everything that it ultimately hurt the whole show).
and it didn't help that Henry also became... uber plot devicey and they made him an Author. boo that.
Both went downhill in their fifth seasons too 😂
This video got it all spot on. They ruined August for the Debacle known as Neal. But the ultimate slap in the face was when they recreated the chemistry and scenes between August and Emma for Hook.
To me the main theme isn't good always wins. It's the law of unintended consequences about how the nice happy ending a got was possible because something bad happened to b. But in the end you have to try to clean up you mistakes. Even if you believe that you are destined to fail. You gotta put in the work for redemption.
I detect nothing but truth in your statement
@@BetterWithBob August was ruined because they believed that forcing Emma and Neal would give Henry a happy ending. They simply miscalculated. Henry's happy ending was having both Emma and Regina as his mother and knowing that he was and will always be loved by both mothers.
Forcing Emma and Neal wasn't what Henry needed because he was wise to understand that life was messy and love was important. That is why he was welcoming to Emma to begin with. The writers missed their own lesson trying to make Henry's ending into a fancy bow. Henry was happy when the people he loved got to be happy.
I wonder how much better this show could've been if it allowed itself to genuinely go a bit more mature, Fables-like tone and admitted honestly who its protagonists are (Rumpelstiltskin and Regina), perhaps even secundary characters like August could've gotten more screen time if the forced-regulars didn't get as much, especially considering how cringeworthy they often got. I actually somewhat enjoyed the first part of Season 7 because they got rid of them (and alternate reality Hook was more likeable than the OG), but then even that season ended up being meh overall (not as bad as 5 though, I didn't even finish that season).
I remember not liking season 5. Too much drama. I hated how they killed off Robin Hood.But season 6 felt like season one to me. And I loved the Musial episode and how it did a 180!and ended how it began. I’m debating on stopping at season 3 or 4 right before it shows the cliffhangers. I like happy endings. Or just skip 5 completely and just finish with 6, because I remember liking it when I was younger
6 is alright. The first half is so so but the second with the Black Fairy as the main villain is actually not bad
@@BetterWithBob can you tell me why the first half is bad. It’s been so long, I don’t really remember
Will you do more ouat video’s in the future. Very curious about your thoughts about Regina’s storyline.
Would love to, if the algorithm favours them. Liking and sharing helps a bunch 😊
Captain Swan was an epic love story. We’ll just agree to disagree.
I definitely thought she should have ended up with august
We are in agreement there 😅
Ecactly. August could have temporarly lost his memory after being turned back into a man. They didnt need to make him a boy again.
I hear rumours that they didn't like working with Eion Bailey but that's all they seem to be
Emma and Neal ruined the show. She and August should have been the endgame and they made him a child to shove Emma and Neal down the throats of fans who wanted nothing of it and they dropped him. Neal being Baelfire was too obvious and too neat especially for a show about the messiness of unintented consequences.
Honestly Neal romance should not have existed. They should have made it two people who cared for eachother, because of Henry. NO ROMANCE, just two adults who care for their kid and want eachother to be okay.
Honestly I'm not a big fan of August and Emma romance, and would rather they be close friends. Though I may be biased because I love Hook and Emma.
I agree that Emma had way more chemistry with August than she had with Hook. I really wasn't a fan of the Emma/Hook pairing.
Aculy the writers statet hook was planed as emmas love interest since S1. He was cut from S1
Inexact. They said he was supposed to be there as a character. The fact that he was supposed to be her boyfriend was not. In the interviews, they never said it.
Well done.
Thank you!
Hello. Enjoy your videos, especially this one. Big Once Upon A Time fan. I'd like to share some thoughts (and links) with you, regarding this topic, but I'm not super comfortable commenting publicly on TH-cam. Is there another way I could private message you? I promise none of what I have to say is offensive, most of it is positive, and in the places where we disagree, I will be respectful. Again, congrats on a great video and a great channel with great videos. Stay safe.
I can be reached on Twitter and IG @bobbyiceman. Sometimes it takes me a while to get around to DMs but I do read everyone :)
I never really liked August. And I thought Emma and Hook had the best chemistry of any couples in the show. I also kinda like seasons 5 and 6. You also have to take into account what the actors wanted if an actor doesn’t want to be a main character then they use him as a reoccurring character. That doesn’t make the show a bad or mean there’s missed potential because the writers know this up front. Emma’s partner had to an actor who wanted to be a main character. And session 7 sucked.
I like the second halfs of Seasons 5 and 6 myself
Forgive me, but these are pure personal tastes. Which I respect but no. The 5th was a huge waste and pure mediocre cs drama that took this series into the abyss. It is really a matter of good writing. Hook and Emma were put together for fandom and Hook had less weight than August or Neal. He became a pure satellite of Emma with no personality.
I agree this character did deserve better, though I think he and Emma work better with a loving platonic relationship. I mostly prefer those over romantic relationships.
Oh that's a fair point
He was a 100% casted as a love interest and I would have loooooved to see them together.
You make a really good case for them as a couple.
Thank you ^_^