3 days ago i was standing on the hill of sidi theif facing the bay of tunis and over looking the sea route that leads to the carthaginian port... I was there for like 1 hour just staring at the sea imagining the Carthaginian navy making his way through the waves with the voices of thounsands of worriors yelling and going to war . It was an iconic view especially with the foggy mountains in the distance and the chilling view
@@hannibalbarca8411 Think about the 30,000 strong carthaginian naval forces gathering before the battle of Cape Ecnomus, knowing that barely 10% would ever come home
Correct me if I'm wrong, Carthage ran amuck throughout the Italian peninsula for 15 years wrecking havoc upon Roman cities. The Roman's withstood the best Carthage could throw at them. They earned that victory the hard way.
@@anon2427its ok to put it like that, but the romans lost ALOT of able fighting men. And kept just raing armies out of thin air. The Early república was really devoted and unified. They had alot of patriotism
After Rome’s bloodbath defeat at the Battle of Cannae in 216 B.C., Hannibal occupied most of southern Italy for 15 years, but he failed to mount an attack on Rome itself. For that entire time, the Carthaginian oligarchy (Council of 30 Nobles) refused to send reinforcements in the hope that Hannibal would somehow take Rome without them having to inconvenience themselves too much by funding his campaigns. Hannibal was unable to win a decisive victory because the Romans, led by Fabius Maximus, avoided engaging Hannibal in open battle, instead waging a war of attrition with guerrilla tactics. Roman general Scipio Africanus then led a counter-invasion of Carthage, forcing Hannibal to retreat to North Africa where his eventual defeat at the Battle of Zama in 202 B.C. ended the Second Punic War with a decisive Roman victory.
fuck carthage they got what they deserved. Moloch, The Ancient Pagan God Of Child Sacrifice - All That's Interesting Oct 2, 2021Most recently, an exhibit celebrating ancient Carthage popped up in Rome with a golden statue of Moloch placed outside of the Roman Colosseum in November 2019. It served as a memorial of sorts to the defeated enemy of the Roman Republic, and the version of Moloch used was purportedly based on the one Pastrone used in his film - down to the bronze furnace in its chest.
That is half true. The Carthaginians got bogged down in Spain, preventing their ability to send reinforcements to Hannibal. Carthage could have sailed troops across the Mediterranean, but the city lacked resources to do so (because Spain was their money tree) and lacked the maritime dominance they had decades prior.
Interesting, I was taught that the Council of Nobles refused to send reinforcements because of a very similar issue that Rome had with its own generals: they were terrified of them using their popularity with their soldiers to try and impose a dictatorship. They feared that if Hannibal conquered Rome, it would be politically impossible to stop him from becoming a king. Not sure how true that is just what was told to me.
If the catheginians are related to the Philistines of the Judean coast and the Trojans of Turkish coast , than they did sacrifice children to baal. It's not for no reason that the Hebrews and Greeks also wiped out completely the punic peoples near their lands. I believe this most despicable form of human sacrifice is probably the reason that punic people's weren't merely conquered by their local enemies but wiped out completely.
What a powerful presenter & orator! The power of the story teller is bestowed upon a rare few. To captivate your audience with words of which one can modulate & paint vivid images is a unique gift. In many older cultures it's a revered gift that appears only a few times a generation, well to be nurtured. Bathe in the excellence of a master story teller! Extremely Captivating! Kudos 👏 💐
I've enjoyed the others much more, I think he's the worst I've heard on the Odyssey channel. He sounded all too excited to share alleged gruesome details here and I have always thought it's so strange that these people seem to lack a certain perspective here, like why do you need to tell me what you think an entire nation is thinking and feeling about conquests as opposed to, more specifically what the ruling class of that nation is thinking? The majority of human beings during this period in history were slaves, and they were crucial to the building of any society. Slaves were likely more preoccupied with surviving and being slaves rather than thinking and feeling the same as some landowning senator in Rome plotting the destruction of their neighbors.
"Story teller" nicely sums up Miles' rep when it comes to Carthage. To be sure Miles is a decent historian . . . as long as he is kept away from all things Punic for when he is asked to comment on this topic he loses the historian's necessary detachment. The best example of this is his refusal to accept the fact that in times of crisis the Carthaginians (Punics) did indeed sacrifice children. This has been tossed back and forth for over a century now between archaeologists and historians with the on-going research now beginning to congeal around this cruel reality. This does not mean that enormous numbers of children were slaughtered or that it even occurred all that often - but Miles doesn't bother with distinctions, he simply will not have it. Too, he cannot bring himself to admit to another well-documented reality, to wit: the Carthaginians were much harsher, even crueler, overlords than Rome ever was. He will admit that Rome did a better job of assimilating other peoples, but not that this was something the rulers of Carthage routinely bungled. I, for one, like historians to have opinions, but when they can't resist carving up history to align with their agenda, well, bollocks to 'em. Cheers!
I’ve been to several places in Tunisia including the ruins of Carthage, and what certainly stood out to me was how very few actual Carthaginian/Phoenician artifacts and ruins survived into modern times compared to the many artifacts and ruins from the Roman era and later. Rome nearly succeeded in their goal of erasing their enemy from history.
@YouDontDreamInCryo Nope, Consoles are for children, I am 54,I most likely am playing World of Warcraft longer than you are out of your diapers, but keep trying dude.
Carthage has the better generals, a much stronger economy and all around a more advanced civilization, their people, however started to go soft with prosperity, they employed mercenaries and allowed merchants who never had seen combat to take critical military decisions the worst of it was denying reinforcements to Hannibal at a time when he had a chance to win the war, those same merchants and citizens who refused to fight for their country or even support their best general received no mercy from the Romans, be it a lesson for us all.
I hear alot " If Carthage only sent more reinforcements to Hannibal they would / could have won " but its not that simple. There were reinforcements trying to reach him, but Rome was blocking the attempts. And even if they would somehow succeed to give him enough men, Hannibal would face the same problems that led to him being on the peninsula for 13 years without being able to close the deal even tho he could defeat any Roman army. Carthage was also losing in Hispania and had to focus alot of resources there. Maybe Carthage had better generals than Rome other than Hannibal idk, what makes you think that?
@@jimmyandersson9938 The Carthage high council didnt even tried to send the reinforcements, they actually send Hannibal a message which said something like "if you are victorious you dont need it, if you are defeated you dont deserve", such stupid and arrogant behavior costed them everything, of course is not that simple, I clearly wrote "chance to won", but again, they didn't even tried, as for Carthage having better generals that is true even if only they had Hannibal, Scipion, the best Roman general and who defeated him at the end respected Hannibal and knew that he managed to do that by sheer discipline and numbers, not by better strategical thinking
@@cesaravegah3787 Maybe arrogant if thats true and not a myth they said that, but did they have a point? Hannibal was failing for 13 years even tho his army was unbeatable. I would also question what let say 20k more recruits would solve that his allready superior army couldn't? Again, his problems that resulted in his failure would remain even with increased army size, also how many men could they afford to risk? Hasdrubel tried with 30k at battle of Metaurus but was defeated. Hannibals plan to turn Rome's allies against them failed, he didnt have siege equipment or experience to take the city, he was in way over his head and perhaps the council saw this and imo rightfully tried to defend Hispania instead. Agree Scipios victory at Zama vs Hannibal was not because he was better, but he did some crazy shit in Hispania which earned him a spot in the list of best generals in world history.
Not even sure that they had better generals. Better economy definitely but they were never fierce warriors. Of the Semitic people only the Assyrians were. Their talents were geared towards usury and trade rather than honorable warfare
@@anon2427 I find trading and even usury a thousand times more honorable than warfare and as I said, having Hannibal gives instantly the edge on generals.
Hannibal and his father had their hands in Carthages destruction ? Their hatred for Rome cost them everything in the end. Hannibal wiped out Roman armies thinking that Rome would negotiate a surrender after such devastating losses ? He was wrong ! Romes vengeance proved every bit as fanatical as Hannibal’s was.
I think you are too roman in mindset. the Carthaginians, sound much like north American and south America natives. They could turn a wilderness to lush growing lands, and the Romans wanted. but couldn't. so it's a might makes right situation, that Rome thought total annihilation would make right. yet, nothing could Rome due to top, just raze and steal. If you were a child and you're entire world was destroyed by blockheads who were greedy brutes... think, Athens and Sparta... Athens to intelligent to fight Sparta,to much fighting so sparse greens land supplies... go fight, big can take, be a snake... as opposed to the more mind muscle focused Athenians. So it's the same as the blockhead football team beating the nerds and band kids. It's truly no different. They couldn't have done it. without the ship's. So it's all theft... as poorly as Hannibal handled it, you live through roman razing..... you live through an roman catholic inquisition.... it's the Romans.... and see, we still say. all roads lead to Rome. I don't know why we are citing Ikea for kit ship comparisons, it should be Sears Roebucks. the Kit homes.... I suppose people have taken so many prescriptions, they forget their own lives and history, but Knox and hare. and a roman war machine that means dead bodies are glory, success, and the life, while feeding off the spoils. So parasitic, and vampiric. But so is Britannia... and Germany. They're also forever responsible for the persecution and murder of Jesus. so to be honest, the destruction of Carthage is small and pale. on their list of crimes against life and humanity. Roman slurs British slurs German slurs.... everyone else is Slavic to them.... slaves.... and well Jesus got Rome handled in that revelations thing.... Rome will fall. in a way it won't ever rise again at all just like it wanted for Carthage and Jesus. They like revenge served cold... way after the fact, so it blindsides..... yes.... Jesus got that....And Jesus isn't Hannibal... he doesn't need elephants or an army....
They didn't hate Rome 4 no reason and even if they didn't exist Rome vs cartage would have eventually came 2 strong empires can't live together at that time
About the idea that the Carthaginians sacraficed their own children to their gods actually being a slanderous rumor created by their enemies in Rome. Rome was not the only source of this allegation. I believe the bible also tells the Jews to not sacrafice their children to Baal like the Phonecians, who are related to the Carthaginians and also worship the same god/gods
@@gebert87animal sacrifice is very common back then ! I don’t think that the Carthaginians would do such a thing especially that they worshipped a mother goddess Tanit
they did sacrifice children in times of crisis, they worshipped “Baal” who demanded child sacrifice , hence the name “Hannibal” wich mean servant of baal, and hence the Baal suffixes in the names of Carthaginian elites. Carthage inherited Baal worship from the Phoenicians that originated from Lebanon. Baal is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible because the prophet king Solomon struggled with Priests of Baal forcing sacrifices ,and one of his Wives worshiped Baal. It was believed that the Children of Israel also fell from the grace of God and started worshipping Baal and started sacrificing children to Baal by burning their babies in-front of a bronze bull headed effigy
The Canaanites in the Bible were Phoenician cousins to the Carthaginians. They also worshiped Baal and Ashtar. If the Romans used to slander the carthaginians with tails of child sacrifice, so did the Israelites. This is the reason in the Bible for Joshua and the Jewish army for extermination of every man woman child and animal of the Canaanites. Archeology on Canaanite sites shows the bones of infant children and the foundations of the homes. Filled with the rubble of stone, dirt and infant bones, supposedly the spirit of the Dead child would be the protector of the dwelling if throne the foundations alive. Were these people really brutal like this? Or was this slander and there's another explanation for putting dead children in the foundation of a home?
The silliness of the author of this video...in pretending that they didn't sacrifice children...in spite of the evidence and written testimony. All you have to do is look at the Hebrews written testimony of Baal worship..." and they caused the children to walk through the fire " 🔥 The Hebrew God was adamant that his chosen people refrain from this horrible practice that he condemned mixing with them so that his people didn't end up putting their kids into the fire in . And it's clear that many Hebrews picked up the custom. That's why God said " I desire Mercy ...not sacrifice " Baal was a dark god. Don't lie about history.
@@jorgejustice Lol! So the Romans lied about the descendants of the Phoenicians, as did the Jews before them? One problem: proof of child sacrifice has been discovered in modern Israel. Yes, they continued the practice in their new homes, in the Western Mediterranean. When you worship Baal, child sacrifice is a necessity.
@@davidschalit907 what we have to work with is the evidence in archaeology and the writings by the Romans and the Jews. I reserve the right to change my mind if evidence points one way or another. I am just saying I don't know and the dude makes a valid point. History is written by the victors. Don't be a dick and laugh at me because I ask questions and happen to notice coincidences. As a Christian myself, I resent other Christians who act smug in the comments section. Be cool. Be civil.
I'm so sick of apologist who deny history as well as calling the people who were there lies. We know that child sacrifice was prevalent among those who worshiped baal as well as other God's and Diodorus was no roman to lie just to make a people look bad. They worshiped Baal and crucified their own generals. To look at the evidence that confirms the awful stories and make excuses because " YOU don't want to believe it is to dishonor those poor children. Ancient peoples were sacrificing children long before Carthage
@Wizzy678 The Romans very seldom participated in human sacrifice. The lords of Carthage did it on a regular basis. Get your facts straight. Why are you defending human sacrifice?
Baal means Lord there are dozens of Baals in Carthage itself !, I think you are taking a religious position here ! It is clear to everyone! You are completely wrong! It could never have happened especially that most of the children found were dead before birth , and the Carthaginians worshiped a monteer goddess Tanit , and there are no remains of children tombes else where …
Actually Carthage didn't end then -it was recreated as a magnificent Roman city which became one of the largest in the empire.It had an magnificent aqueduct bringing plentiful water in.It became one of the great centers of Christianity -the great saints Cyprian and Augustine of Hippo lived there.The Vandals took it but it was reconquered by the Eastern Roman Empire only to fall to the Arabs who destroyed it and replaced it with Tunis of which it is now a suburb!
Roman Carthage has no connection to Qarthadastim outside of its ruins, as it was barren for about a century. Different people, different religion, difference culture, just the same location. They even managed to destroy most of the scripture and books left behind.
@@kaloarepo288 Regardless of interbreeding, the Qarthadastim state, culture, language and elite were still almost entirely Punic, not Berber or Libyan. There is no evidence that Severus was related to this elite.
@@malchir4036 The Wikipedia article on Severus says he was of Roman stock from his mother's side and Punic on his father's -they must have evidence for claiming this from histories and biographies etc from that period.I'm sure if you checked with the classics department of any university that could either corroborate or deny these assertions.
@@kaloarepo288 If that's your source, you might want to check up on where he was born and what that city was. While Quarthadastim is Punic, Punic doesn't mean Quarthadastim.
Excellent documentary, Carthaginian influence, even in my Romanophile opinion, is too often understated. Before Egypt, Sicily and Africa were the bread baskets. An innovative agriculture for the advanced civilization who runs it. For all the professionalization of Rome we hear of, Carthage's navy is an engineering marvel. And I do like the theory that the children's bones were from a goodbye than a tribute. From the Levant, you can hear other instances of child sacrifice, bronze age too. Carthage, by that logic, would be drastically different from the locals they would trade and/or subjugate. Why would these neighbors, who weren't accused of baby killing to my knowledge, be okay with that sacrifice either, and the same shade isn't thrown on other Phoenician states, though they are there. However, I really don't think child sacrifice is completely off the table. Little evidence for either side of the argument, but it is good to have a not one sided narrative. Also, Rome has typically been pretty open about seeing something that works and using it for themselves. Seems strange to poorly cover up wheat production methods. Despite Rome's infamous senate life, it's worth noting that Carthaginian senate left the Barcids out to dry, despite having the real, practical talent to win militarily. The Sicilian Greeks, be they small towns or Syracuse itself, seem like fair weather types due to their placement if anything. Hard to tell your mugger that you won't give him money cause an officer is a phone call away. These are just my thoughts. Odyssey, your Documentaries are superb, always ready to dig into the histories, but rightly question them. The on location visits inspire awe, and narration is always engaging to watch and hear!
Recent studies have shown that Carthage was a local empire established by the indigenous North African people. According to Spencer Wells' genetic study of Tunisia, the DNA of present-day Tunisians is largely the same as that of the ancient Carthaginians, with 88% of the population being of North African origin. Only 12% of Tunisians have roots from other regions. Wells' study of Lebanon also revealed that 11% of Lebanese people have North African DNA, suggesting that migration occurred from Carthage to Lebanon, not the other way around. Carthage was never a Phoenician colony. The story of Alyssa is a myth, a false narrative created by the Romans to undermine the Carthaginian Empire by implying, "The empire was built by a woman!" There are many such myths in history, including the legend of Romulus and Remus in Rome. In reality, Carthage was built by the local North Africans, as confirmed by Wells' DNA study. Tunisians are among the purest ethnic groups in the world, and the Carthaginians are a continuous population stemming from the Capsian, Aterian, and Acheulean cultures. This is our heritage. The ruins of Carthage are still in Tunisia today-visit Tunisia if you want to see them for yourself! 🇹🇳
He’s wrong about the natural death of the children , this form of sacrifice was also seen by the same people along the coast of ancient Israel and is mentioned many times in the Bible but he apparently has not read that book
Mentioning the child sacrifice of Romes enemy wouldn't help in the besmirching of Roman civilization. The point was to belittle Rome and in essence Western civilization
@@olliefoxx7165 you’re a bright one… people of that stock sacrificed children all across the southern and eastern Mediterranean and beyond at that time and far more recently as well
@@olliefoxx7165 I’ve mentioned it several times in several comments responding to you. Most of what you put in this comment section is truthful but with some inaccuracies. Semitic people did have a cultural practices of human sacrifice, usury, and mercentalism in the Bronze Age and beyond. The Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Assyrians, Hebrew, and possibly proto-Arab tribes all participated in human sacrifice dedicated to their gods
In all actuality, if the governing body of Carthage had reinforced Hannibal while in Rome, Rome would likely have been no more. Politicians ruined Carthage through treachery and inactivity when the time was right.
@@hateralert4012 Very unlikely. He was there for 13 years with an superior army and still couldn't finish them and there are many reasons for this, and some extra recruits wouln't have done anything to fix Hannibals major problems he faced, which led to his failure.
@@hateralert4012They did send reinforcements but they were all intercepted and destroyed. Hannibal's brother was leading a whole army but he was beaten in a field battle and decapitated, his head was sent to Hannibal.
I get the impression that the narrator has an axe to grind over a 2000+ year old fight, during which his ancestors (and mine) were barely literate iron-age tribesmen. Picking sides in such an ancient conflict is absurd.
There's plenty of evidence that the Carthaginians practiced human sacrifice. Yes, it is dreadful what the Romans did to Carthage but don't think that the Carthaginians would have treated the Romans any better.
Usual method for oppressed masses was religion I guess. They believed gods had meant world to be like this. Fantasy and fairy tales are the firm ground to build a worldview which will carry you through hard times.
Even Hannibal was constantly at odds with the merchant class who ruled Carthage and dominated the senate. The military nobles class though technically of higher status in Carthage, had little actual power and had to rely on the merchants in the senate to aquire the mercenaries necessary for a functioning carthaginian army. If the cartaginian senate had not let Hannibal stupidly fall on Rome through the alps and had shipped its army by sea to the Italian coast and had Hannibal been as good at logistics and strategy as he was at tactics Rome would not have survived . Ceasars and Hannibal are each one half an Alexander. Had either been an Alexander,the Era of the rise of Rome would have been far more interesting wether Rome survived or not.
Caesar was a greater general than both Alexander and Hannibal. I don’t see any correlation between the generalship styles of Alexander and Hannibal as Alexander was famous for leading from the front and using brute force and blind luck to push past any obstacle
A corrupt, inept Carthaginian Senate abandoning one of history's greatest military masterminds is a good story and certainly has merit, but is half true at best. The state largely relied on silver and resources from Spain during the second war. The Roman assault on Spain was far more important than what Hannibal was doing, so the state's focus was further west than where Hannibal was. Furthermore, Carthage would have serious difficulties in bringing Hannibal troops by sea. The Romans and their allies dominated on sea and would have crushed any reinforcements traveling that way. The serious way they could back Hannibal was by going through the Alps, which required Spain to be secure.
This is really the best account of Carthage I've seen out there, its very well done. Most always seem to frame them as an early rival and stepping stone in Rome's march to greatness, with passing reference to Hannibal's military genius. Some on TH-cam have even tried to recast Rome's PR with their own PR..... toying with the idea that these were sub-Saharan black Africans; Hannibal was black they say and this was "yet another" white oppression of black success, which I feel is the most far-fetched and clearly has American roots. But this account attempts to tell things from their own point of view, and find out what really happened. It is both an interesting and tragic tale. These people were Phoenicians, a name most people remember I think from being mentioned in the Bible but know practically nothing about. They had their origins in the Lebanon area, they were an advanced civilization that offered much more than they've historically been given credit for.
Hannibal was NOT black, and neither was cleopatra. Realistic portraits of the Barca family show that they did not have black features. At best, we can only ascribe Hannibal as being Phonecian and nothing else. Why is everything a white oppression of black success to you? That mentality is modern and did not exist in the ancient world. History is rarely as black and white as that.
Way too much narrative here and not enough fact. Still interesting, but it's not a literal big, evil meany Rome greedily goes after elegant, sophisticated good Carthage. Like just about everything in life, there's far more nuance than that
Hannibal crossed Europe with his elephants... and sacked Rome! He was a Carthaginian.. Glorious story IMMORTAL ..Dad told me as a little girl that Hannibal had crossed the river Tagus (.. where I played) and the Alps.. to get to Rome.. I thought him to be mistaken.. There were no elephants in Europe.. They lived with Maugli... far away..
And he left out the Mercenary war between Hamlicar Barca ( Hannibals war like father) and his own former army of Mercenaries...perhaps the bloodiest was in African history.
There's nothing wrong with bias. It's perfectly normal, everyone has their own point of view. It's perfectly possible to have a great intellectual conversation when biases are clearly disclosed and noted. It's those who dishonestly pretend they don't have them who are the problem.
@@janewright315 I accept that. My point is.. leftist ideology is SECRETLY placed all throughout material for kids.. family shows and movies.. documentaries.. lessons at school etc etc.. and its done in a way to falsely claim that it's 100% facts when it isn't. I have no issue with someone having bias.. as you said.. we all do.. but I'm only ok with it if the people who have it.. are open and honest about it.. the issues I'm addressing or that I have issue with are when it's hidden or disguised and is given in a way to intentionally slip propaganda into the viewers mind. that is what I take issue with.. and its everywhere today.. especially in school.. social media.. and hollywood
Very subtle??? Hahahaha no, not subtle at all. But in his defense, most of the peoples Rome encountered felt this way too lol.......except those who chose friendship instead of resistance.
Hannibal is the worlds most famous General? I don’t think so. Not even close. Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan, Napoleon and Julius Caesar come to mind as being vastly more famous and successful. Hmmmm
Pathetic narrative. Completely out of context. The history between Rome and Carthage is extensive, Hannibal invaded the Roman peninsula, and slaughtered 70+ thousand Roman troops at Canae. The lesson was “Don’t fu** with Rome”
The Roman's enjoyed ritual murder as well. Different times different standards. I would bet that the main motivation for the Roman's was greed and ambition not saving some kids that would have been considered nothing more than slaves or playthings by the Roman elite and soldiers
@@tomsawyer4321 The Romans certainly weren't saints, but some might argue that slavery is slightly better than using them as firewood kindling. It was technically possible to eventually buy yourself out of slavery at least. I think we can agree that immolation is a bit more permanent. I suppose some might find it preferable to sex slavery. So there's a point in the Carthaginian's favor I guess.
32:00 Cato wasn't an aristocrat. He was one of only 4 consuls in history who wasn't a member of a noble family. Scipio, Cato, Marius and Cicero. The adjectives used by the presenter are hatefully biased.
the parallels to be drawn are endless. when one global superpower can impose it's will on the world while it's elite class takes what they want (even from their own people) that superpower is destined to fall. and I say this as an American. although this could very well be said about the entirety of the western world. those who don't know their history
As an American, I know that hard work, talent and even brilliance can put you at the top. Those that lack in these virtues are saddled with mediocrity or worse. The unvirtuous tend to perish.
@@ludovicleprinceroyal8721 Indeed. And the medocrities, having been indoctrinated with the obvious but comforting falsehood that they are "equal", insist that the hardworking, talented, and brilliant could only have succeeded by taking what's theirs. They never let the fact that they never produced or achieved (or even attempted) anything worth taking dissuade them. Nor do they ever take failure as feedback or motivation for self-improvement, because their dogma excludes any consideration of "better".
No where in history has Caucasian eradicated there own race. But, if a civilization is of black blood and genetic it is possible to erase them. What I have discovered is that the white race can is able to change a civilization through intermingling there dna. But, with the negro gene it is recessive. It is secondary and will always leave black dna to dominate. To my understanding there are a lot of Italians and whites walking around who are black and look white.
No, in fact Flaubert did not let his imagination run. He explicitly insisted time and again that everything in Salammbô was based on ancient sources. Those, of course, were overwhelmingly Roman…
How did Romans call the Carthaginans? Punes. And till this day we use the word reminding us the horrible end of Carthago: punish. Punishment. We use it today, yet most never realize the true origin of that word. Destruction of the entire nation state of Puni.
@@Dog4life_ Don't believe everything you read buddy. The guy is full of shit. Punic and Punish are not related in any way, shape, or form. Punish is based on old french, which may very well be further based on latin BUT punic is derived from fucking greek word for Phoenix. So what... does a Phoenix represent punishment now?
@@raidang Punicus is an adjective. But I was only guessing, translating from my mother tongue. Anyway, thanks to your note I realized that it should correctly be "Puni", but it is still plural and I am not sure what the singular is for the same. And also, it opened my eyes to the fact (I knew it but didn't connect it) that they were descendants of Phoenicians. So in Latin, they were also called Punicians - how close to Phoenicians! Basically, pronouncing P instead of F! And both are sooo similar.
@@Alarix246also the vandals were a barbaric Tribe that sacked Rome and Today vandal mean “A person who needlessly destroys or damages other people's property” or “Carelessly destructive”
It's well known that Carthage descended from cultures which did practice child sacrifice, though the frequency with which it occurred was probably exaggerated by Roman propaganda. While this is fascinating, I strongly disagree with the hosts' assertion that Carthage was the template for Roman civilization. That the Romans absorbed the strengths and skills of all the civilizations they conquered is indisputable, and things such as ship building and farming techniques were no exception. But, as widely as the Carthaginians held sway, there would be surviving examples architecture, artifacts, and literature to establish these facts if they, and not the Greeks and Etruscans, were the real inspiration for Roman civilization. To put it another, more modern way, "Show me the aquaduct!" In any event, the fact exists that Rome had an indisputable talent for greatly improving upon any sciences they absorbed and that much of it transcended the source material by leaps and bounds.
I haven't watched the entire video yet. Does he mention that in one of the major final naval battles that the Carthaginian ships were very heavily loaded with supplies for Hannibal whilst the Roman ships were nearly as loaded and thus the Roman ships were much more maneuverable and se worthy at that critical time?
Rome lost 400,000 killed, Romans and their Allies, in the first Carthaginian War, 500,000 Roman soldiers and additional 200,000's civilians killed in the 2nd Punic War. Rome defeated Carthage twice at a huge cost. Turns out Cato was right, historians agree, the Carthaginians were rebuilding their navy in a secret harbor. Rome did not want another powerful Carthaginian Empire invading them. Rome determined their would be no resurgent Carthage. Carthage visited a Holocaust on Rome and Italy, Cato returned the favor.
“Carthage: The Roman Holocaust” (2004), was written and presented by prominent British archaeologist, anthropologist, historian, and master storyteller, Dr Richard Miles, who has directed archaeological excavations in Carthage and Rome. In 2010 he published “Carthage Must Be Destroyed: The Rise and Fall of an Ancient Mediterranean Civilisation”. This monumental work charts the entirety of Carthage's history, from its origins among the Phoenician settlements of Lebanon to its apotheosis as a Mediterranean empire whose epic land-and-sea clash with Rome made a legend of Hannibal and shaped the course of Western history. “Carthage Must Be Destroyed” resurrects the ancient glory of the lost civilisation that ancient Rome struggled so mightily to expunge.
Hannibal’s last waste to Italy for 10 years. Carthage did not offer their citizenry a piece of the action. Rome honoured family wills. He never understood why he killed so many, and months later, more showed up.
Funny how when Carthage attacks a rival, it's because they had no choice, and when Rome attacked a rival, it was because they were greedy and power hungry. Maybe it's the childish need to view everything as good vs. bad. It was two rivals. Doesn't mean one was right and one was wrong
The toffet, (tofet?) might just be a children's graveyard, but Carthaginians were culturally Canaanites. And we are fairly certain human sacrifice, especially child sacrifice, especially first born sacrifice was common enough amongst bronze and iron age Canaanites. Ancestors and contemporaries of the Carthaginians. So even if the toffetts aren't evidence of mass sacrifice, it doesn't mean there wasn't child sacrifice taking place. So it's not just Roman sources, but all the sources that attest to human sacrifice in the Canaanite world. Phoenicians would be a subset of this, and thus the Carthaginians. So we know that there was tradition of such child sacrifice. We just can't say to what extent the Carthaginians were still practicing it nearing the end of the 1st millennium bce. But really, ALL actual evidence, including legends and myths, and actual known Levantine Bronze and Iron Age practice, suggests there would have likely been a tradition of human/child sacrifice in the Carthaginian world.
Agree that child sacrifice was an inherited cultural practice though it's probably true that Roman propaganda exaggerated the frequency with which it occurred.
It's weird how the mainstream crowd just refuses to believe that these people could have reverted to an ancient ritual at the end of their existence. You summed it up perfectly, "I just don't believe it."
Like any nation which inhabits a new region, the Phoenicians brought their ancestral Canaanite beliefs and practices with them when they settled at Carthage. Several lines of evidence demonstrate that one of these distinctive practices was child sacrifice.
Carthage wasn't the only one that Rome eradicated; Dacia was much smaller, but Rome wanted their gold and artwork, and after looting it, set about wiping out the larger towns and cities. They tried to do the same in Britain, but failed to finish the job.
@@HollyMoore-wo2mh They did not what, try to erase their existence, and all records of it,I beg to differ, yes they did.....Alot of these people don't seem to d O much research before they make a video...... NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER
The Romans had a tradition of burying Gauls alive in times of national distress. Its amusing that people believe that older societies, related directly to groups of people known to have practiced child sacrifice wouldn't have done the same- or worse.
Ritual child sacrifice is a lot different then executing criminals 60 million abortions since 1970 That is an absurd amount of dead babies for anyone that was born in 1970. How many people died in ww2?
To the victor goes the spoils. Remember that. If you don’t know that much about Carthage- how do you know they didn’t wipe out other established civilizations? Or did they just roll over and say SURE take over our lands and people?
So this is where the Romans got that boat, news to me and an astonishing 220 ships in 45 days equals 4.8 ships a day wow!!! Of course when you have a military society that does what it is told I can see it.
Not just a military society. An efficient society of builders, architects and engineers. Their technologies and productivities were superior. That was how they won the war.
Romans were so brilliant in their organizational feats; it is reported that the Colosseum of 50, 000 people could be evacuated in 5 minutes in the event of an emergency. I wonder if there is such a plan in any modern stadiums, and has it ever been tested? Just asking, thank you!
We have some Carthaginian coins. Heavily debased silver used to fund an mercenary army towards the end and some small coppers. The horse standing under a palm tree stands out some predominantly in most examples.
wow this one is dark and Im in a depressed state , actually your nice is soothing but im finding this video goes get at the moment with the sound off and Ali Farka Toure' is playing its synching right in
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
I first learned of Hannibal and Carthage from the movie "Gladiator" and I'm so thankful for the movie for opening my eyes to such captivating history.
3 days ago i was standing on the hill of sidi theif facing the bay of tunis and over looking the sea route that leads to the carthaginian port... I was there for like 1 hour just staring at the sea imagining the Carthaginian navy making his way through the waves with the voices of thounsands of worriors yelling and going to war .
It was an iconic view especially with the foggy mountains in the distance and the chilling view
@@hannibalbarca8411 Think about the 30,000 strong carthaginian naval forces gathering before the battle of Cape Ecnomus, knowing that barely 10% would ever come home
'And it's trudge,trudge,trudge, we're off to settle a grudge..' ancient marching song.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Carthage ran amuck throughout the Italian peninsula for 15 years wrecking havoc upon Roman cities. The Roman's withstood the best Carthage could throw at them. They earned that victory the hard way.
Hannibal was overrated too. Over a decade with free reign and still couldn’t force capitulation
@@anon2427its ok to put it like that, but the romans lost ALOT of able fighting men. And kept just raing armies out of thin air.
The Early república was really devoted and unified. They had alot of patriotism
@@anon2427 80IQ take
16 years I believe.
Yeah. This narrator’s delivery makes it seem as though Carthage was a baby lost in the woods.
I hope everyone finds someone who loves them and covers their ass as much as this dude does to Carthage.
Same thoughts here, he’s a bit too reverential to them and seems to really have disdain for The Roman Empire, haha!!
@@CuriamacabreNo kidding. He’s not a good historian.
I agree but i think he’s mostly right
@@AlejandroCab98 Carthago Delenda Est.
Read his book “Carthage Must Be Destroyed” and then tell me he’s not a good historian. That book is amazing
This guy's voice is just sublime - great narration with content to match! ❤❤👍👍
it is 02:21 Richard Miles
😂😂😂😂 no he is only in his mind. Must be part Roman.
More like this please… and pretty, pretty please no unnecessarily added background music 😬
After Rome’s bloodbath defeat at the Battle of Cannae in 216 B.C., Hannibal occupied most of southern Italy for 15 years, but he failed to mount an attack on Rome itself. For that entire time, the Carthaginian oligarchy (Council of 30 Nobles) refused to send reinforcements in the hope that Hannibal would somehow take Rome without them having to inconvenience themselves too much by funding his campaigns. Hannibal was unable to win a decisive victory because the Romans, led by Fabius Maximus, avoided engaging Hannibal in open battle, instead waging a war of attrition with guerrilla tactics. Roman general Scipio Africanus then led a counter-invasion of Carthage, forcing Hannibal to retreat to North Africa where his eventual defeat at the Battle of Zama in 202 B.C. ended the Second Punic War with a decisive Roman victory.
fuck carthage they got what they deserved. Moloch, The Ancient Pagan God Of Child Sacrifice - All That's Interesting
Oct 2, 2021Most recently, an exhibit celebrating ancient Carthage popped up in Rome with a golden statue of Moloch placed outside of the Roman Colosseum in November 2019. It served as a memorial of sorts to the defeated enemy of the Roman Republic, and the version of Moloch used was purportedly based on the one Pastrone used in his film - down to the bronze furnace in its chest.
That is half true. The Carthaginians got bogged down in Spain, preventing their ability to send reinforcements to Hannibal. Carthage could have sailed troops across the Mediterranean, but the city lacked resources to do so (because Spain was their money tree) and lacked the maritime dominance they had decades prior.
Interesting, I was taught that the Council of Nobles refused to send reinforcements because of a very similar issue that Rome had with its own generals: they were terrified of them using their popularity with their soldiers to try and impose a dictatorship. They feared that if Hannibal conquered Rome, it would be politically impossible to stop him from becoming a king. Not sure how true that is just what was told to me.
Why do you guys come on here and think you're an historian?
If the catheginians are related to the Philistines of the Judean coast and the Trojans of Turkish coast , than they did sacrifice children to baal. It's not for no reason that the Hebrews and Greeks also wiped out completely the punic peoples near their lands.
I believe this most despicable form of human sacrifice is probably the reason that punic people's weren't merely conquered by their local enemies but wiped out completely.
Planned parenthood is child sacrifice
Abortions for baal!
You’re wrong. The Trojans were an indo-European people closely related to the Greeks and descended from the Achaeans just like the Greeks were.
And I do agree that they worshipped dark gods and participated in human sacrifice like many other Semitic Bronze Age peoples including the Hebrews
The Trojan war was about supremacy, not child sacrifice
What a powerful presenter & orator! The power of the story teller is bestowed upon a rare few. To captivate your audience with words of which one can modulate & paint vivid images is a unique gift. In many older cultures it's a revered gift that appears only a few times a generation, well to be nurtured.
Bathe in the excellence of a master story teller!
Extremely Captivating! Kudos 👏 💐
Just a biased hit piece, not actual history.
I've enjoyed the others much more, I think he's the worst I've heard on the Odyssey channel.
He sounded all too excited to share alleged gruesome details here and I have always thought it's so strange that these people seem to lack a certain perspective here, like why do you need to tell me what you think an entire nation is thinking and feeling about conquests as opposed to, more specifically what the ruling class of that nation is thinking? The majority of human beings during this period in history were slaves, and they were crucial to the building of any society. Slaves were likely more preoccupied with surviving and being slaves rather than thinking and feeling the same as some landowning senator in Rome plotting the destruction of their neighbors.
You’re kidding right? Like someone else said he simps way too much about his subject. Damn. He’s a rotten story teller.
HuldaJordan, I agree absolutely with you. I love the way you have honoured the storytellers, too
"Story teller" nicely sums up Miles' rep when it comes to Carthage. To be sure Miles is a decent historian . . . as long as he is kept away from all things Punic for when he is asked to comment on this topic he loses the historian's necessary detachment. The best example of this is his refusal to accept the fact that in times of crisis the Carthaginians (Punics) did indeed sacrifice children. This has been tossed back and forth for over a century now between archaeologists and historians with the on-going research now beginning to congeal around this cruel reality. This does not mean that enormous numbers of children were slaughtered or that it even occurred all that often - but Miles doesn't bother with distinctions, he simply will not have it. Too, he cannot bring himself to admit to another well-documented reality, to wit: the Carthaginians were much harsher, even crueler, overlords than Rome ever was. He will admit that Rome did a better job of assimilating other peoples, but not that this was something the rulers of Carthage routinely bungled. I, for one, like historians to have opinions, but when they can't resist carving up history to align with their agenda, well, bollocks to 'em. Cheers!
I’ve been to several places in Tunisia including the ruins of Carthage, and what certainly stood out to me was how very few actual Carthaginian/Phoenician artifacts and ruins survived into modern times compared to the many artifacts and ruins from the Roman era and later. Rome nearly succeeded in their goal of erasing their enemy from history.
Someday the US will be East China. Always has been, always will be.
@Life's a Game and Aryans Won the Championship lmao. Seek therapy
@Life's a Game and Aryans Won the Championship why lol
@YouDontDreamInCryo It is actually thriving, since it changed the gladius for the Cross. Romans never stopped ruling the world.
@YouDontDreamInCryo Nope, Consoles are for children, I am 54,I most likely am playing World of Warcraft longer than you are out of your diapers, but keep trying dude.
Carthage has the better generals, a much stronger economy and all around a more advanced civilization, their people, however started to go soft with prosperity, they employed mercenaries and allowed merchants who never had seen combat to take critical military decisions the worst of it was denying reinforcements to Hannibal at a time when he had a chance to win the war, those same merchants and citizens who refused to fight for their country or even support their best general received no mercy from the Romans, be it a lesson for us all.
I hear alot " If Carthage only sent more reinforcements to Hannibal they would / could have won " but its not that simple. There were reinforcements trying to reach him, but Rome was blocking the attempts. And even if they would somehow succeed to give him enough men, Hannibal would face the same problems that led to him being on the peninsula for 13 years without being able to close the deal even tho he could defeat any Roman army. Carthage was also losing in Hispania and had to focus alot of resources there. Maybe Carthage had better generals than Rome other than Hannibal idk, what makes you think that?
@@jimmyandersson9938 The Carthage high council didnt even tried to send the reinforcements, they actually send Hannibal a message which said something like "if you are victorious you dont need it, if you are defeated you dont deserve", such stupid and arrogant behavior costed them everything, of course is not that simple, I clearly wrote "chance to won", but again, they didn't even tried, as for Carthage having better generals that is true even if only they had Hannibal, Scipion, the best Roman general and who defeated him at the end respected Hannibal and knew that he managed to do that by sheer discipline and numbers, not by better strategical thinking
@@cesaravegah3787 Maybe arrogant if thats true and not a myth they said that, but did they have a point? Hannibal was failing for 13 years even tho his army was unbeatable. I would also question what let say 20k more recruits would solve that his allready superior army couldn't? Again, his problems that resulted in his failure would remain even with increased army size, also how many men could they afford to risk? Hasdrubel tried with 30k at battle of Metaurus but was defeated.
Hannibals plan to turn Rome's allies against them failed, he didnt have siege equipment or experience to take the city, he was in way over his head and perhaps the council saw this and imo rightfully tried to defend Hispania instead. Agree Scipios victory at Zama vs Hannibal was not because he was better, but he did some crazy shit in Hispania which earned him a spot in the list of best generals in world history.
Not even sure that they had better generals. Better economy definitely but they were never fierce warriors. Of the Semitic people only the Assyrians were. Their talents were geared towards usury and trade rather than honorable warfare
@@anon2427 I find trading and even usury a thousand times more honorable than warfare and as I said, having Hannibal gives instantly the edge on generals.
So now we know where IKEA comes from😁 Great video.
This was absolutely outstanding. The presenter is fabulous as is the whole production! Kudos. And thanks 👍
I watched this last night I think I’ll watch it again tonight because Carthage must be destroyed over and over
You must be destroyed over and over again
AVE, STEVE!
Savage😂
Blame Hannibal.
Never have I seen someone simp this hard for Carthage.
What an incredibly beautiful voice. Perfect narration. Thank you 😊 💓
Great video. Thank you!
Say what?!?!?!?!
"YOU HAVE MADE A DESERT OF CARTHAGE and call it PEACE"
Hi from Tunisia, Carthage now is green beautiful place where live rich people here, as if it was Never burned 😊❤❤
facts
The Carthaginians fucked around and found out.
Lol. Yes, you summed it up very nicely
loathe this corny overused phrase so much
Lame
Hannibal and his father had their hands in Carthages destruction ? Their hatred for Rome cost them everything in the end. Hannibal wiped out Roman armies thinking that Rome would negotiate a surrender after such devastating losses ? He was wrong ! Romes vengeance proved every bit as fanatical as Hannibal’s was.
I think you are too roman in mindset. the Carthaginians, sound much like north American and south America natives. They could turn a wilderness to lush growing lands, and the Romans wanted. but couldn't. so it's a might makes right situation, that Rome thought total annihilation would make right. yet, nothing could Rome due to top, just raze and steal. If you were a child and you're entire world was destroyed by blockheads who were greedy brutes... think, Athens and Sparta... Athens to intelligent to fight Sparta,to much fighting so sparse greens land supplies... go fight, big can take, be a snake... as opposed to the more mind muscle focused Athenians. So it's the same as the blockhead football team beating the nerds and band kids. It's truly no different. They couldn't have done it. without the ship's. So it's all theft... as poorly as Hannibal handled it, you live through roman razing..... you live through an roman catholic inquisition.... it's the Romans.... and see, we still say. all roads lead to Rome. I don't know why we are citing Ikea for kit ship comparisons, it should be Sears Roebucks. the Kit homes.... I suppose people have taken so many prescriptions, they forget their own lives and history, but Knox and hare. and a roman war machine that means dead bodies are glory, success, and the life, while feeding off the spoils. So parasitic, and vampiric. But so is Britannia... and Germany. They're also forever responsible for the persecution and murder of Jesus. so to be honest, the destruction of Carthage is small and pale. on their list of crimes against life and humanity. Roman slurs British slurs German slurs.... everyone else is Slavic to them.... slaves.... and well Jesus got Rome handled in that revelations thing.... Rome will fall. in a way it won't ever rise again at all just like it wanted for Carthage and Jesus. They like revenge served cold... way after the fact, so it blindsides..... yes.... Jesus got that....And Jesus isn't Hannibal... he doesn't need elephants or an army....
They didn't hate Rome 4 no reason and even if they didn't exist Rome vs cartage would have eventually came 2 strong empires can't live together at that time
Yes. Like only a humongous empty headed gong called hatred swinging back and forth.
@mohamed htresk Carthage really didn't attack Rome. Rome was a pebble in their sandals.
@mohamed htresk killing is bad.
About the idea that the Carthaginians sacraficed their own children to their gods actually being a slanderous rumor created by their enemies in Rome. Rome was not the only source of this allegation. I believe the bible also tells the Jews to not sacrafice their children to Baal like the Phonecians, who are related to the Carthaginians and also worship the same god/gods
They’ve found sites where the “sacrifices” were offered…so not slanderous at all..!
You think the Romans would’ve mentioned it during the time of the Punic Wars 🤔 weird “fact” to leave out if you’re at war with them
@@gebert87animal sacrifice is very common back then ! I don’t think that the Carthaginians would do such a thing especially that they worshipped a mother goddess Tanit
@@gebert87 these sites were mainly cremated stillborns/fetuses
the bible was put together by the romans, so it makes sense it would be consistent with their narrative
they did sacrifice children in times of crisis, they worshipped “Baal” who demanded child sacrifice , hence the name “Hannibal” wich mean servant of baal, and hence the Baal suffixes in the names of Carthaginian elites.
Carthage inherited Baal worship from the Phoenicians that originated from Lebanon. Baal is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible because the prophet king Solomon struggled with Priests of Baal forcing sacrifices ,and one of his Wives worshiped Baal. It was believed that the Children of Israel also fell from the grace of God and started worshipping Baal and started sacrificing children to Baal by burning their babies in-front of a bronze bull headed effigy
The Canaanites in the Bible were Phoenician cousins to the Carthaginians. They also worshiped Baal and Ashtar. If the Romans used to slander the carthaginians with tails of child sacrifice, so did the Israelites. This is the reason in the Bible for Joshua and the Jewish army for extermination of every man woman child and animal of the Canaanites. Archeology on Canaanite sites shows the bones of infant children and the foundations of the homes. Filled with the rubble of stone, dirt and infant bones, supposedly the spirit of the Dead child would be the protector of the dwelling if throne the foundations alive. Were these people really brutal like this? Or was this slander and there's another explanation for putting dead children in the foundation of a home?
The silliness of the author of this video...in pretending that they didn't sacrifice children...in spite of the evidence and written testimony. All you have to do is look at the Hebrews written testimony of Baal worship..." and they caused the children to walk through the fire " 🔥
The Hebrew God was adamant that his chosen people refrain from this horrible practice that he condemned mixing with them so that his people didn't end up putting their kids into the fire in .
And it's clear that many Hebrews picked up the custom.
That's why God said " I desire Mercy ...not sacrifice "
Baal was a dark god. Don't lie about history.
@@jorgejustice
Lol! So the Romans lied about the descendants of the Phoenicians, as did the Jews before them?
One problem: proof of child sacrifice has been discovered in modern Israel. Yes, they continued the practice in their new homes, in the Western Mediterranean. When you worship Baal, child sacrifice is a necessity.
@@davidschalit907 what we have to work with is the evidence in archaeology and the writings by the Romans and the Jews. I reserve the right to change my mind if evidence points one way or another. I am just saying I don't know and the dude makes a valid point. History is written by the victors. Don't be a dick and laugh at me because I ask questions and happen to notice coincidences. As a Christian myself, I resent other Christians who act smug in the comments section. Be cool. Be civil.
@@jorgejusticeso everyone coincidentally lied about the same thing happening with the same people, without cross referencing their work?
Completely absorbing --- utterly BRILLIANT!!
Now imagine how many cultures were destroyed by the conquest of Rome.
@alfonsolabaiadeltabacco7459😂😂😂
Fortunately they were. Thanks to Jupiter.
I'm so sick of apologist who deny history as well as calling the people who were there lies.
We know that child sacrifice was prevalent among those who worshiped baal as well as other God's and Diodorus was no roman to lie just to make a people look bad.
They worshiped Baal and crucified their own generals. To look at the evidence that confirms the awful stories and make excuses because " YOU don't want to believe it is to dishonor those poor children.
Ancient peoples were sacrificing children long before Carthage
There are people behind the powers of the world today that have more in common with Carthage than Rome and Western civilization
@Ollie Foxx
You are so very true. Unfortunately, some unbaptised unfortunates have probably been offered into the darkness
What are u yapping about the romans themselves practiced human sacrifice
@Wizzy678
The Romans very seldom participated in human sacrifice. The lords of Carthage did it on a regular basis.
Get your facts straight.
Why are you defending human sacrifice?
Baal means Lord there are dozens of Baals in Carthage itself !, I think you are taking a religious position here ! It is clear to everyone! You are completely wrong! It could never have happened especially that most of the children found were dead before birth , and the Carthaginians worshiped a monteer goddess Tanit , and there are no remains of children tombes else where …
Actually Carthage didn't end then -it was recreated as a magnificent Roman city which became one of the largest in the empire.It had an magnificent aqueduct bringing plentiful water in.It became one of the great centers of Christianity -the great saints Cyprian and Augustine of Hippo lived there.The Vandals took it but it was reconquered by the Eastern Roman Empire only to fall to the Arabs who destroyed it and replaced it with Tunis of which it is now a suburb!
Roman Carthage has no connection to Qarthadastim outside of its ruins, as it was barren for about a century. Different people, different religion, difference culture, just the same location. They even managed to destroy most of the scripture and books left behind.
A fake carthage inhabited by nonphoenicians
@@kaloarepo288 Regardless of interbreeding, the Qarthadastim state, culture, language and elite were still almost entirely Punic, not Berber or Libyan. There is no evidence that Severus was related to this elite.
@@malchir4036 The Wikipedia article on Severus says he was of Roman stock from his mother's side and Punic on his father's -they must have evidence for claiming this from histories and biographies etc from that period.I'm sure if you checked with the classics department of any university that could either corroborate or deny these assertions.
@@kaloarepo288 If that's your source, you might want to check up on where he was born and what that city was. While Quarthadastim is Punic, Punic doesn't mean Quarthadastim.
This is such a wonderful video. Colourful, fascinating and so beautifully narrated. Thank you! ❤
😆😆😆 No it is not. He is far too one sided.
The most informative documentary.👍👍
Excellent documentary, Carthaginian influence, even in my Romanophile opinion, is too often understated. Before Egypt, Sicily and Africa were the bread baskets. An innovative agriculture for the advanced civilization who runs it. For all the professionalization of Rome we hear of, Carthage's navy is an engineering marvel. And I do like the theory that the children's bones were from a goodbye than a tribute. From the Levant, you can hear other instances of child sacrifice, bronze age too. Carthage, by that logic, would be drastically different from the locals they would trade and/or subjugate. Why would these neighbors, who weren't accused of baby killing to my knowledge, be okay with that sacrifice either, and the same shade isn't thrown on other Phoenician states, though they are there.
However, I really don't think child sacrifice is completely off the table. Little evidence for either side of the argument, but it is good to have a not one sided narrative. Also, Rome has typically been pretty open about seeing something that works and using it for themselves. Seems strange to poorly cover up wheat production methods. Despite Rome's infamous senate life, it's worth noting that Carthaginian senate left the Barcids out to dry, despite having the real, practical talent to win militarily. The Sicilian Greeks, be they small towns or Syracuse itself, seem like fair weather types due to their placement if anything. Hard to tell your mugger that you won't give him money cause an officer is a phone call away. These are just my thoughts.
Odyssey, your Documentaries are superb, always ready to dig into the histories, but rightly question them. The on location visits inspire awe, and narration is always engaging to watch and hear!
Good documentary.
Recent studies have shown that Carthage was a local empire established by the indigenous North African people. According to Spencer Wells' genetic study of Tunisia, the DNA of present-day Tunisians is largely the same as that of the ancient Carthaginians, with 88% of the population being of North African origin. Only 12% of Tunisians have roots from other regions. Wells' study of Lebanon also revealed that 11% of Lebanese people have North African DNA, suggesting that migration occurred from Carthage to Lebanon, not the other way around.
Carthage was never a Phoenician colony. The story of Alyssa is a myth, a false narrative created by the Romans to undermine the Carthaginian Empire by implying, "The empire was built by a woman!" There are many such myths in history, including the legend of Romulus and Remus in Rome. In reality, Carthage was built by the local North Africans, as confirmed by Wells' DNA study.
Tunisians are among the purest ethnic groups in the world, and the Carthaginians are a continuous population stemming from the Capsian, Aterian, and Acheulean cultures. This is our heritage. The ruins of Carthage are still in Tunisia today-visit Tunisia if you want to see them for yourself! 🇹🇳
Brilliant!!!!!
Thank you
Yall know that Carthage started that shit right?? All they had to do was leave rome alone..
fr fr
very good work
He’s wrong about the natural death of the children , this form of sacrifice was also seen by the same people along the coast of ancient Israel and is mentioned many times in the Bible but he apparently has not read that book
Mentioning the child sacrifice of Romes enemy wouldn't help in the besmirching of Roman civilization. The point was to belittle Rome and in essence Western civilization
@@olliefoxx7165 you’re a bright one… people of that stock sacrificed children all across the southern and eastern Mediterranean and beyond at that time and far more recently as well
@@anon2427 People of what stock? Don't beat around the bush?
@@olliefoxx7165 I’ve mentioned it several times in several comments responding to you. Most of what you put in this comment section is truthful but with some inaccuracies. Semitic people did have a cultural practices of human sacrifice, usury, and mercentalism in the Bronze Age and beyond. The Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Assyrians, Hebrew, and possibly proto-Arab tribes all participated in human sacrifice dedicated to their gods
Hannibal nearly destroyed Rome and completely destroyed Carthage. What an influential and significant man.
In all actuality, if the governing body of Carthage had reinforced Hannibal while in Rome, Rome would likely have been no more. Politicians ruined Carthage through treachery and inactivity when the time was right.
@@hateralert4012 Very unlikely. He was there for 13 years with an superior army and still couldn't finish them and there are many reasons for this, and some extra recruits wouln't have done anything to fix Hannibals major problems he faced, which led to his failure.
Its not hannibals fault its his citizens
@@hateralert4012They did send reinforcements but they were all intercepted and destroyed. Hannibal's brother was leading a whole army but he was beaten in a field battle and decapitated, his head was sent to Hannibal.
Always enjoyed re-watching this. Love this series. Appreciate the upload!
I get the impression that the narrator has an axe to grind over a 2000+ year old fight, during which his ancestors (and mine) were barely literate iron-age tribesmen. Picking sides in such an ancient conflict is absurd.
Yeah this was a lot of fantasy, head canon BS. Piss poor as a historical documentary
Excellent video ❤️
There's plenty of evidence that the Carthaginians practiced human sacrifice. Yes, it is dreadful what the Romans did to Carthage but don't think that the Carthaginians would have treated the Romans any better.
How did the average person back then maintain healthy hope for their futures with such ruthless leaders around during the ancient roman empire?
Ally with your own ruthless leader and never fight the Roman Empire.
Rome was a republic during this time so was Carthage
The average person back then was far tougher physically and mentally than we are today
Usual method for oppressed masses was religion I guess. They believed gods had meant world to be like this. Fantasy and fairy tales are the firm ground to build a worldview which will carry you through hard times.
By not sacrificing your children
I love this documentary 🖤🖤
Why I might ask?
Even Hannibal was constantly at odds with the merchant class who ruled Carthage and dominated the senate. The military nobles class though technically of higher status in Carthage, had little actual power and had to rely on the merchants in the senate to aquire the mercenaries necessary for a functioning carthaginian army.
If the cartaginian senate had not let Hannibal stupidly fall on Rome through the alps and had shipped its army by sea to the Italian coast and had Hannibal been as good at logistics and strategy as he was at tactics Rome would not have survived .
Ceasars and Hannibal are each one half an Alexander. Had either been an Alexander,the Era of the rise of Rome would have been far more interesting wether Rome survived or not.
Caesar was a greater general than both Alexander and Hannibal. I don’t see any correlation between the generalship styles of Alexander and Hannibal as Alexander was famous for leading from the front and using brute force and blind luck to push past any obstacle
Auto correct would definitely help your case!
A corrupt, inept Carthaginian Senate abandoning one of history's greatest military masterminds is a good story and certainly has merit, but is half true at best.
The state largely relied on silver and resources from Spain during the second war. The Roman assault on Spain was far more important than what Hannibal was doing, so the state's focus was further west than where Hannibal was. Furthermore, Carthage would have serious difficulties in bringing Hannibal troops by sea. The Romans and their allies dominated on sea and would have crushed any reinforcements traveling that way. The serious way they could back Hannibal was by going through the Alps, which required Spain to be secure.
This is really the best account of Carthage I've seen out there, its very well done. Most always seem to frame them as an early rival and stepping stone in Rome's march to greatness, with passing reference to Hannibal's military genius. Some on TH-cam have even tried to recast Rome's PR with their own PR..... toying with the idea that these were sub-Saharan black Africans; Hannibal was black they say and this was "yet another" white oppression of black success, which I feel is the most far-fetched and clearly has American roots. But this account attempts to tell things from their own point of view, and find out what really happened. It is both an interesting and tragic tale.
These people were Phoenicians, a name most people remember I think from being mentioned in the Bible but know practically nothing about. They had their origins in the Lebanon area, they were an advanced civilization that offered much more than they've historically been given credit for.
Hannibal was NOT black, and neither was cleopatra. Realistic portraits of the Barca family show that they did not have black features. At best, we can only ascribe Hannibal as being Phonecian and nothing else. Why is everything a white oppression of black success to you? That mentality is modern and did not exist in the ancient world. History is rarely as black and white as that.
Way too much narrative here and not enough fact.
Still interesting, but it's not a literal big, evil meany Rome greedily goes after elegant, sophisticated good Carthage. Like just about everything in life, there's far more nuance than that
This is one of the top 10 Documentaries posted on this channel. High quality!
Hannibal crossed Europe with his elephants... and sacked Rome! He was a Carthaginian.. Glorious story IMMORTAL ..Dad told me as a little girl that Hannibal had crossed the river Tagus (.. where I played) and the Alps.. to get to Rome.. I thought him to be mistaken.. There were no elephants in Europe.. They lived with Maugli... far away..
He Never sacked Rome. But he did Sack 100s of Roman cities
Excellent story. I knew almost none of this.
And he left out the Mercenary war between Hamlicar Barca ( Hannibals war like father) and his own former army of Mercenaries...perhaps the bloodiest was in African history.
Great documentary very good narration however a little biased towards Punic civilisation, nevertheless thanks very much
Great Docu: NOT to be missed!
Not a Holocaust, a War.
How can you not dig that Punic singing?
The bias Is very subtle .. yet it is also all throughout the video...
There's nothing wrong with bias. It's perfectly normal, everyone has their own point of view. It's perfectly possible to have a great intellectual conversation when biases are clearly disclosed and noted. It's those who dishonestly pretend they don't have them who are the problem.
@@janewright315 I accept that. My point is.. leftist ideology is SECRETLY placed all throughout material for kids.. family shows and movies.. documentaries.. lessons at school etc etc.. and its done in a way to falsely claim that it's 100% facts when it isn't. I have no issue with someone having bias.. as you said.. we all do.. but I'm only ok with it if the people who have it.. are open and honest about it.. the issues I'm addressing or that I have issue with are when it's hidden or disguised and is given in a way to intentionally slip propaganda into the viewers mind. that is what I take issue with.. and its everywhere today.. especially in school.. social media.. and hollywood
Lmao, what do ya mean subtle. The dude is blatantly $h!tting on Rome from the first minute on. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Very subtle??? Hahahaha no, not subtle at all. But in his defense, most of the peoples Rome encountered felt this way too lol.......except those who chose friendship instead of resistance.
@@janewright315 Thats fair.
Hannibal is the worlds most famous General?
I don’t think so. Not even close.
Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan, Napoleon and Julius Caesar come to mind as being vastly more famous and successful.
Hmmmm
Pathetic narrative. Completely out of context. The history between Rome and Carthage is extensive, Hannibal invaded the Roman peninsula, and slaughtered 70+ thousand Roman troops at Canae. The lesson was “Don’t fu** with Rome”
Always envious of Tunisians...... Your ancestors DNA
Carthage was asking for it. They made some nice boats, trade routes, and window blinds but child sacrifice is a bit tasteless.
The Roman's enjoyed ritual murder as well. Different times different standards. I would bet that the main motivation for the Roman's was greed and ambition not saving some kids that would have been considered nothing more than slaves or playthings by the Roman elite and soldiers
@@tomsawyer4321 The Romans certainly weren't saints, but some might argue that slavery is slightly better than using them as firewood kindling. It was technically possible to eventually buy yourself out of slavery at least. I think we can agree that immolation is a bit more permanent. I suppose some might find it preferable to sex slavery. So there's a point in the Carthaginian's favor I guess.
Source : the romans.
Lol
Planned parenthood = child sacrifice
@@alexislaisney3404 I agree. Planned Parenthood must be destroyed!
I've been listening to this in the background all day and I could have sworn that was Robert Webb's voice!
really glad to see Jeremy finally found his true passion and got away from Super Hans
Rome had a Carthage problem... and then they didn't.
32:00 Cato wasn't an aristocrat. He was one of only 4 consuls in history who wasn't a member of a noble family. Scipio, Cato, Marius and Cicero. The adjectives used by the presenter are hatefully biased.
The presenter was out to belittle Roman influence. Its self hatred. Very prevalent in our culture today.
the parallels to be drawn are endless. when one global superpower can impose it's will on the world while it's elite class takes what they want (even from their own people) that superpower is destined to fall. and I say this as an American. although this could very well be said about the entirety of the western world. those who don't know their history
Wise words.
As an American, I know that hard work, talent and even brilliance can put you at the top. Those that lack in these virtues are saddled with mediocrity or worse. The unvirtuous tend to perish.
@@ludovicleprinceroyal8721 Indeed. And the medocrities, having been indoctrinated with the obvious but comforting falsehood that they are "equal", insist that the hardworking, talented, and brilliant could only have succeeded by taking what's theirs. They never let the fact that they never produced or achieved (or even attempted) anything worth taking dissuade them. Nor do they ever take failure as feedback or motivation for self-improvement, because their dogma excludes any consideration of "better".
Carthridge is
No where in history has Caucasian eradicated there own race. But, if a civilization is of black blood and genetic it is possible to erase them. What I have discovered is that the white race can is able to change a civilization through intermingling there dna. But, with the negro gene it is recessive. It is secondary and will always leave black dna to dominate. To my understanding there are a lot of Italians and whites walking around who are black and look white.
.... ok, just to make it clear. Those are the ruins of Roman Carthage
Because rome utterly destroyed the old Carthage... right?
@@theCosmicQueen yes. So those are definitely Roman ruins
No, in fact Flaubert did not let his imagination run. He explicitly insisted time and again that everything in Salammbô was based on ancient sources. Those, of course, were overwhelmingly Roman…
00
DR Noakes is a legend and personal hero. The rarest thing nowadays....a TRUE scientist.
😆😆😆 I'll bet he believes masks work too.
How did Romans call the Carthaginans? Punes. And till this day we use the word reminding us the horrible end of Carthago: punish. Punishment. We use it today, yet most never realize the true origin of that word. Destruction of the entire nation state of Puni.
I did not the etymology. Vastly interesting,thank you.
@@Dog4life_
Don't believe everything you read buddy. The guy is full of shit. Punic and Punish are not related in any way, shape, or form. Punish is based on old french, which may very well be further based on latin BUT punic is derived from fucking greek word for Phoenix.
So what... does a Phoenix represent punishment now?
The called them Punicus
@@raidang Punicus is an adjective. But I was only guessing, translating from my mother tongue. Anyway, thanks to your note I realized that it should correctly be "Puni", but it is still plural and I am not sure what the singular is for the same. And also, it opened my eyes to the fact (I knew it but didn't connect it) that they were descendants of Phoenicians. So in Latin, they were also called Punicians - how close to Phoenicians! Basically, pronouncing P instead of F! And both are sooo similar.
@@Alarix246also the vandals were a barbaric Tribe that sacked Rome and Today vandal mean “A person who needlessly destroys or damages other people's property” or “Carelessly destructive”
It's well known that Carthage descended from cultures which did practice child sacrifice, though the frequency with which it occurred was probably exaggerated by Roman propaganda.
While this is fascinating, I strongly disagree with the hosts' assertion that Carthage was the template for Roman civilization. That the Romans absorbed the strengths and skills of all the civilizations they conquered is indisputable, and things such as ship building and farming techniques were no exception. But, as widely as the Carthaginians held sway, there would be surviving examples architecture, artifacts, and literature to establish these facts if they, and not the Greeks and Etruscans, were the real inspiration for Roman civilization. To put it another, more modern way, "Show me the aquaduct!" In any event, the fact exists that Rome had an indisputable talent for greatly improving upon any sciences they absorbed and that much of it transcended the source material by leaps and bounds.
damn, just a cursory glance at the comments and you can see the hate for carthage is still alive..
I noticed that also!
You don't kill someone who owes you a billion dollars.
Which is why they shouldn't have paid off the debt so quickly
Cato ended speeches with: "cetero censeo carthaginem delendsm esse".
By the way, I do believe Carthage must be destroyed.
I haven't watched the entire video yet. Does he mention that in one of the major final naval battles that the Carthaginian ships were very heavily loaded with supplies for Hannibal whilst the Roman ships were nearly as loaded and thus the Roman ships were much more maneuverable and se worthy at that critical time?
Semitic people vs indo Europeans hence the bias against Rome.
Semitic people descend from Indo-Europeans as well you dummy.
Robert Webb did a great job narrating 😂
I thought the same thing! That's Sir Digby Chicken Ceaser Salad!
It is Richard Miles 02:21
Beautiful that Rome destroyed Carthage.. awesome..
What historians, point is: dont judge, times. From 2023 year!
Rome lost 400,000 killed, Romans and their Allies, in the first Carthaginian War, 500,000 Roman soldiers and additional 200,000's civilians killed in the 2nd Punic War. Rome defeated Carthage twice at a huge cost. Turns out Cato was right, historians agree, the Carthaginians were rebuilding their navy in a secret harbor. Rome did not want another powerful Carthaginian Empire invading them. Rome determined their would be no resurgent Carthage. Carthage visited a Holocaust on Rome and Italy, Cato returned the favor.
“Carthage: The Roman Holocaust” (2004), was written and presented by prominent British archaeologist, anthropologist, historian, and master storyteller, Dr Richard Miles, who has directed archaeological excavations in Carthage and Rome. In 2010 he published “Carthage Must Be Destroyed: The Rise and Fall of an Ancient Mediterranean Civilisation”. This monumental work charts the entirety of Carthage's history, from its origins among the Phoenician settlements of Lebanon to its apotheosis as a Mediterranean empire whose epic land-and-sea clash with Rome made a legend of Hannibal and shaped the course of Western history. “Carthage Must Be Destroyed” resurrects the ancient glory of the lost civilisation that ancient Rome struggled so mightily to expunge.
Finally another decent one gets posted
Hannibal’s last waste to Italy for 10 years. Carthage did not offer their citizenry a piece of the action. Rome honoured family wills. He never understood why he killed so many, and months later, more showed up.
Funny how when Carthage attacks a rival, it's because they had no choice, and when Rome attacked a rival, it was because they were greedy and power hungry. Maybe it's the childish need to view everything as good vs. bad. It was two rivals. Doesn't mean one was right and one was wrong
Exactly. That's the same recuring story throughout the history of waring empires.
The toffet, (tofet?) might just be a children's graveyard, but Carthaginians were culturally Canaanites. And we are fairly certain human sacrifice, especially child sacrifice, especially first born sacrifice was common enough amongst bronze and iron age Canaanites. Ancestors and contemporaries of the Carthaginians. So even if the toffetts aren't evidence of mass sacrifice, it doesn't mean there wasn't child sacrifice taking place.
So it's not just Roman sources, but all the sources that attest to human sacrifice in the Canaanite world. Phoenicians would be a subset of this, and thus the Carthaginians. So we know that there was tradition of such child sacrifice. We just can't say to what extent the Carthaginians were still practicing it nearing the end of the 1st millennium bce.
But really, ALL actual evidence, including legends and myths, and actual known Levantine Bronze and Iron Age practice, suggests there would have likely been a tradition of human/child sacrifice in the Carthaginian world.
Agree that child sacrifice was an inherited cultural practice though it's probably true that Roman propaganda exaggerated the frequency with which it occurred.
history is always written by the victor
many thx
In that case, it's pretty lucky that the good guys have always won every major war.
Carthage got what they deserved
42:40 watched it 10 times. Wow. Where's the movie for this?
"I know somewhere with a lot ofndead babies". Haha oh my. Really well put together docu, thanks for the information!
It's weird how the mainstream crowd just refuses to believe that these people could have reverted to an ancient ritual at the end of their existence. You summed it up perfectly, "I just don't believe it."
Like any nation which inhabits a new region, the Phoenicians brought their ancestral Canaanite beliefs and practices with them when they settled at Carthage. Several lines of evidence demonstrate that one of these distinctive practices was child sacrifice.
Some think that one of the beefs that Rome had with Carthage was their infant/child sacrifice, but I am not certain of that.
There Was No Child Sacrifise ... Not One single Evidence of This ....
An ancient practice, even if it was still happening it was likely greatly exaggerated as a causus bellis.
@@AlejandroCab98problem is, it WAS still happening. Even if just a little bit, isn’t going to sit well with those against it.
Carthage wasn't the only one that Rome eradicated; Dacia was much smaller, but Rome wanted their gold and artwork, and after looting it, set about wiping out the larger towns and cities. They tried to do the same in Britain, but failed to finish the job.
@YouDontDreamInCryo why doesnt anybody mind their own business ?
@YouDontDreamInCryo why doesnt America do it now?
🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌 watching from Ohio Smitty out 👋👋👋
They wiped them from the face of the Earth, and TRIED to ERADICATE ALL HISTORY of THEM.... GREAT Video.... NEVER RETREAT NEVER SURRENDER....
Woo…settle lol
@@pixiejenkins Don't know what that's suppose to mean..
Relax
N they did not. This guy is not a very good historian.
@@HollyMoore-wo2mh They did not what, try to erase their existence, and all records of it,I beg to differ, yes they did.....Alot of these people don't seem to d
O much research before they make a video...... NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER
Good.
Oh Patrick... didn't you just love this show and the presenter looks like he could be a little bit of a vampire.
The Romans had a tradition of burying Gauls alive in times of national distress. Its amusing that people believe that older societies, related directly to groups of people known to have practiced child sacrifice wouldn't have done the same- or worse.
Ritual child sacrifice is a lot different then executing criminals
60 million abortions since 1970
That is an absurd amount of dead babies for anyone that was born in 1970. How many people died in ww2?
I don’t think this was a tradition, I believe it may have happened once then referred to at a letter time.
This should be a reminder to everyone how why it’s so important to not let people censor access to books
The British are so good how to make a documentary about history so fascinating
To the victor goes the spoils. Remember that. If you don’t know that much about Carthage- how do you know they didn’t wipe out other established civilizations? Or did they just roll over and say SURE take over our lands and people?
This guy LOVES Carthage 😆
To a fault
Oh please
So this is where the Romans got that boat, news to me and an astonishing 220 ships in 45 days equals 4.8 ships a day wow!!! Of course when you have a military society that does what it is told I can see it.
Not just a military society. An efficient society of builders, architects and engineers. Their technologies and productivities were superior. That was how they won the war.
Romans were so brilliant in their organizational feats; it is reported that the Colosseum of 50, 000 people could be evacuated in 5 minutes in the event of an emergency. I wonder if there is such a plan in any modern stadiums, and has it ever been tested? Just asking, thank you!
How much history was lost between this, Alexandria, and Babylon?
Most. Most of history
Less than you think Look up Alexandria Library myth
We have some Carthaginian coins. Heavily debased silver used to fund an mercenary army towards the end and some small coppers. The horse standing under a palm tree stands out some predominantly in most examples.
Good documentary, but the music was awful.
wow this one is dark and Im in a depressed state , actually your nice is soothing but im finding this video goes get at the moment with the sound off and Ali Farka Toure' is playing its synching right in