Thanks for watching! Please consider supporting the channel by buying merch: cynical-historian-shop.fourthwall.com Or by donating to my Patreon: www.patreon.com/CynicalHistorian Click "read more" for corrections and bibliography. First, here are some related videos: Hacksaw ridge: th-cam.com/video/M2YtA_frsyE/w-d-xo.html Good history movies: th-cam.com/video/u8MtKb3vIfI/w-d-xo.html History Movies that Need to be Made: th-cam.com/video/SifuTiw11Bw/w-d-xo.html *[reserved for Errata]* *Bibliography* Jon E. Taylor, Freedom to Serve: Truman, Civil Rights, and Executive Order 9981 (New York: Routledge, 2013). amzn.to/3RX4BmK Haruki Wada, The Korean War: An International History (New York: Rowman & Littlefield, 2014). amzn.to/3tKJnR1 US Navy coverage: www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/people/namesakes/thomas-hudner.html www.cmohs.org/news-events/medal-of-honor-recipient-profile/lt-j-g-thomas-hudner-jr-american-hero-and-devoted-friend/ www.history.navy.mil/news-and-events/news/2017/november/Thomas_Hudner_Passes.html
I don't understand something. Why would Hudner have faced serious reprimands? Was it because he crashed his plane? Or because he failed to save Brown and abandoned the body?
Arguably the biggest inaccuracy in the film was the scene where Hudner and Brown shoot down a North Korean Mig-15 jet. Only one Mig-15 was ever shot down by a Corsair in the war and it was by Marine Captain Jesse Folmar from a completely different squadron. The scene seems to exist only to proved the audience with some excitement and prevent the movie from dragging. All that aside on a personal note, I got an autograph from the director JD Dillard's father from when I was a kid at an airshow. Bruce Dillard was one of if not the first black men to be selected to fly with the US Navy's Blue Angels demonstration team.
Yeah, that a somewhat questionable way to make things more exciting. The worse is that, on the other hand, I wasn't expecting to ever see a Sikorsky HO5S-1 in a movie, so when it comes to aircraft themselves, it seems they did some notable efforts.
Corsairs didn't see action in an air to air fighter role in Korea. Of course the Marine squadrons are there to do close air support for the ground pounders, but the Air Force also used them for ground attack. With the new jets coming online, the Corsair was a bit slow, but it was very maneuverable, it could have still been effective for a little while longer. But it wasn't my decision. Hell, my father was a young boy during that war.
@@jssamp4442 The reason I wrote the previous reply was that the way you wrote your response, it seemed as if you tried to disprove the one Mig-15 kill. Be well.
This movie is what Red Tails should’ve been. The flight scenes, filmed by the same aerial crew from Top Gun Maverick, are some of the best featuring actual warbirds since Dunkirk in my opinion.
I went to see Red Tails at the cinema and was really hoping it would do justice to the men in the air and on the ground who gave so much for their country at a time when their country treated them so badly. I came out very disappointed as it was poorly written and had many errors, not least the flying scenes of US aircraft pulling off impossible manoeuvres and pilots who acted unprofessionally. The 1995 Laurence Fishburne TV movie the Tuskegee Airmen was a better movie imo. Maybe one day we will get an accurate portrayal of the struggles the Tuskegee Airmen went through on the ground and in the air but I doubt it 😔 🇬🇧🇺🇸
4:18 just for clarification, Majors has not been accused of sexual abuse, he was accused of physical & emotional abuse, and has been convicted for at least one assault on his at the time girlfriend. This is not to defend him just so you, nor the audience is confusing or conflating intimate partner violence with sexual abuse.
I've done my own fair share of looking into the many of Medal of Honor recipients like Arthur MacArthur Jr and a bit of Douglas himself and they're very interesting to read about especially black veterans who did some exceptional things in their life time that I sadly didn't know about. This country is relatively recent to alot of the world but its no shortage of fascinating history. While to some people these seem rather silly given they're ceremonies and traditions that seem trivial to alot of us but this is still a way to honor our fallen with a sense of promise that no matter what battlefield you died on or in what war you were in you will be remembered and a legacy still remains and sometimes its worth remembering where you came from. We often need to remind ourselves that the more we face these sort of events in our brief existence it will get mentally taxing and you leave a good piece of you because of it and its why we help those who have been through this kinda stuff so to keep them the same person on the backside. Not just anyone can join the military. Not just any person can be as resilient and come out sane and to just say its trivial is disrespectful for the sacrifices these people do daily. You need these people to be mentally strong to process and go through demanding, punishing things and still come out the same person and be an example for future leaders and warriors. To go against it is a disservice and you're failing them.
Don't forget that there was another MoH film in 1956, Disney's "The Great Locomotive Chase", which covers the story of the first MoH recipients. Edit: Clarification: It was one of the last of *several* films to depict the Andrews Raid of 1862. One of the earlier films to depict it was Buster Keaton's silent comedy "The General".
There is a movie in the making (though last I heard it has yet to go into production) under the title Combat Control that's going to be about John Chapman and his actions during the Battle of Takur Ghar.
Cypher you deserve much higher figures for your videos. They are always well researched to the point and enjoyable for those of us who love good history. Maybe you could make videos on these areas that would get bigger viewing numbers imo. Pick 1 MoH winner from each branch of the US military in day WW1, then another covering WW2, another covering Korea etc. Also how about a video giving a brief run down of each major countries own highest award for valour such as my own country’s Victoria Cross, the French Legion of Honour etc. Thanks for a great review keep em coming 👍 🇬🇧✌️🇺🇸
You should cover the movie Come and See. I love your videos and movie reviews; and I personally believe that you could do the movie justice. The amount of sources and detail are great too. Keep up the good work!
This movie was special and i think about it all the time since i saw it back in 2022. Glad you are giving it recognition, it deserves a ton, and completely avoids the tropes of other movies that are trying to be anti racist. It shows both of its protagonists not as the guys hwwo magically make everyone like them, but who have human respect, and live in a broken system that does not like one of them.
The reason why there are so few MLH Movies is likely because the most prominent recipient was one Hollywood nor Monopolists would like. I am of course referring to Smedley Darlington Butler, whom I personally consider among the ranks of John Brown as far as the very few prominent figures in History I can look back upon in confident fondness.
@@CynicalHistorian I feel like Smedley's story would be better suited to a Miniseries, but that would be a great story to adapt. You got action, personal drama, political intrigue, and police procedural aspects. It would be a great one
@@scaryglobe7157 Did he say that? If so, that's incredibly incorrect. But I've come to expect that kind of stupidity from him. Remember, he called McCain a loser for having been a POW and said that a vet handing him their Purple Heart was "easier" than earning it himself. Dude was always anti-veteran
@@CynicalHistorian It's worse, he Says getting the MOH is not so great becuase "often the men have injuries or dead. While those that get the Medal for Freedom look so young and healthy." (praphrasing but the qoutation is the jist of his statment.)
I think one possible reason there aren't many MOH movies is honestly down to legal issues. I know this was an issue that they ran into with Hacksaw Ridge. Desmond Doss had been approached by multiple filmmakers who wanted to adapt his story, but he refused them all until he finally agreed to it in 2001, and even then it wasn't until 2004 that Terry Benedict was able to secure the film rights. I suspect that many MOH winners, and their families, are justifiably weary of giving permission and signing over the rights to these stories, at least not without major concessions that many filmmakers are probably unwilling to make.
I loved that line on the bottom of the screen that says you don't care about actors and purposely avoid celebrity worship. I have long felt the same. I enjoy the work they do to create movies, but that's as far as it goes. I think in general actors are vastly overpaid. And I am uncomfortable with the whole idea of celebrity. We have a cult of celebrity in this culture. Actors do a job like anyone else. If my plumber or landscaper does a really good job for me, I appreciate it, and their Christmas bonus reflects that. If an actor has a really good performance, they win awards (they give them to one another, weird). But how did we come to elevate actors to such high strata, at the top of the cult? What they do is tell stories through multiple media, visual, auditory, both music and dialogue. It is an entertainment, a way to pass some time and relax, but other than the emotional feelings that have us remembering an old movie with fondness for the protagonist, does it improve our live in significant ways? I claim that teachers have a far greater impact on our lives. Physicians help us stay healthy, extending our life span. And there are many other professions that offer us something tangible and useful, like houses, cars, and even the food we eat. I rank farmers far above actors in the pantheon of my adoration. I just wanted to put this out there, hoping it will bring back a family's love one from the grasp of the cult. Just one would be worth it.
I've heard something on the subject of MoH movies that has me hopeful. Apparently, there are some producers who are trying to get a movie about John Chapman made. I hope they're able to do it, as controversial as it is.
I'm just hoping that the upcoming "Night Witches" movie isn't just going to be an Anti-Soviet/Anti-Socialist/Anti-Communist film; always an irrational interruption when talking about the Soldiers on the ground, as they are not "doing an economic mode" when they're fighting a war. 🤞
There is a TTRPG where you play that unit. You are trying to survive flying missions against the fascists, hold your planes together with limited resources and keep going inside the Soviet military system.
@@jurtra9090 The movie "Enemy at the Gates" is the most notorious example of this, with it just plain putting things in the film that either didn't happen, or were added without the historical context of certain actions. "Blocking Divisions" were not used at the Battle of Stalingrad, and were mostly used, if at all (I don't even think that they were being used at that late in the war), for convicts who elected to serve in the military over serving a prison sentence; the film also makes the absurd argument that Socialism cannot fix people being "Rich in Love" which is hilarious that a character was given that line. Most US Films, even when acknowledging a Soviet achievement, usually has to denigrate something else in order to justify the Cold War, even if it doesn't serve the actual narrative.
@@SusCalvin There are so many fascinating things that happened on the Eastern Front, like I had no idea that the Soviet Union deployed Flying Aircraft Carriers against the German Military, apparently they were quite successful. Or the epic battle of "The Monster" a Soviet KV-1 Tank that went against like 5 German Military Divisions alone and when the Germans finally defeated it they held a Military Funeral for the Soviet Tank Crew and buried them in Full Honors on the battlefield because of how hard they fought; all reports on them are German Reports, which is why you can be fairly certain of the Soviets not hyping the Tank Crew. Or the Battle of Two Soviet Armored Trains against a full German Tank Division, or the Soviet Archery Divisions, all stuff that was not common on the Western Front.
When the medal of freedom meant something, there was a nurse who helped Americans captured by the Japanese who was awarded it. I think she is depicted in the movie The Great Raid, but I could be mistaken. Unfortunately, its value has been watered down, with Trump having the worst impact on that value by turning it into an award for people he valued for supporting him politically.
To address your question as to why there as so few films focused on MoH recipiants I think it is due to the nature of the stories. A good film requires a tight focus, compelling narrative, and clear vision that can be truncated, whereas many of the MoH narratives are complex, messy, and fit better within a broader contextual narrative (such as The Pacific and BHD). Heroism without context is either formulaic, like Devotion, or triumpalistic shorn of texture.
It’s a shame because this also came out when Top Gun Maverick was still in theaters, and so many people didn’t think it worth seeing since they already saw Top Gun.
I wouldn't call that an MOH movie, just like I differentiated Black Hawk Down from that label. BTW you might wanna check out my review of it, since I was somewhat involved: th-cam.com/video/dvwH-R2Xk8I/w-d-xo.html
@@CynicalHistorian I just wanted to mention it. It didn't receive much attention at the time of release (few theaters/vod). I watched your review when it came out and it is well worth a rewatch. I would say The Outpost gives more focus/screen time/internal insight inito the MOH recipients involved than Blackhawk Down.
The Outpost has actual character development, whereas BHD is just the Battle of Mogadishu. I think that makes the Outpost better, but you know I'm biased
@@CynicalHistorian Lol. Yeah... BHD is a tour de force, but character development probably isn't one of its strengths. I think the fact that you get that character development in The Outpost makes me inclined to label it as something more akin to a MOH film if not one outright. I am also probably biased. I also served in Afghanistan (albeit a different location and later date). BHD quotes were ubiquitous.
10-4! er, Ten Four, whatever. Totally totally agree, but then again I grew up in the anti-Vietnam war - hippie daze in Ann Arbor with long hair and the whole stigma, if it can be called that because I was a BIG BIG MOH fan, while gettin' high and going to rock concerts was most important, after trying to get with the girls of course. Bottom line is there's hundreds of all kinds of relevant tales that I am certain would fit any genre, coming from the MOH club. So many good stories or the basis for great dynamic story telling. I mean, play down the MOH and just tell the story and by the end of them the audience is gonna be writing their congressperson to issue one! Another perspective is writers like originality and rely of personal material - most are not MOH grade folks. Same is often true for screenwriters, in terms of preferring originality.
If Im being honest, I did not really enjoy this movie because of how formulaic it was and Id say it was very mundane. I do agree that MOH winners are a great option for Hollywood if they want to make good, action-packed historical films. I would really like to see Hollywood adapt the story of Edward A. Carter Jr. Carter was admittedly only awarded posthumously (although he was awarded the DSC at the time), but he was a unique character, who fought not only in World War II but also with Chinese forces in the Sino-Japanese War and the Abraham Lincoln Brigades in the Spanish Civil War, and his actions in World War II at Speyer were undeniably badass. Also there would be plenty of room for social commentary, idea exploration and characterization, given Carter was black, and due to his service in Spain he later came under suspicion for communist connections. Its also possible he was a POW in Spain, although records about his service in Spain are sparse. But still, that could be something incorporated into his character, giving him a sense of intrigue about his past. My one concern is that these stories need to be handled competently and respectfully, and Id worry that these tales would actually just turn into fodder for mass market Hollywood schlock.
If I had to hazard a guess, I would hypothesize that most of the time the Medal of Honor makes the military look bad. If everything is going according to plan, the job might be dangerous - but nobody needs to go above and beyond. Its when the feces hit the fan that you need acts of heroism. That tends to imply the higher-ups made a mistake. Being the last person to evacuate to protect your comrades is very noble - but why does everyone need to run away in the first place? Then we of course get that the military in the US has a lot of control over how films get made, and you're going to get a rather select view of things.
A simple answer to your querry; "Why aren't there more MoH movies" is rather easy. Timing. The best time to make movies about the MoH and get the maximum effect, is during or immediately after a time of American conflict. reason being is that American exceptionalism and quasi patriotism is at a fevors pitch. It is during this time that Americans have been conditioned to want to hear stories of brave men (and women) out their lives and principals on the line for their country. The only other times I can think of, is when the US military is looking to increase their numbers and justify their bloated budgets. Thus, a great "war" flick gets the eyes of young men who look at the heroic (if not other wirdly) deeds of men in uniform, taking out the bad guys and sticking it to "The Man" (the ever present, pencil pushing bureaucrat) standing in the way. However IMO, the problem with these movies is precisely as you say. They are formulaic. They all seem to follow a predictable script with a few minor changes here and there to make them "original." This unfortunately destroys the true heroism and humanity of the service members that made these awe inspiring sacrifices in the first place. Into cardboard cut outs devoid of personal agendas, true feelings, and gravity. There is a special kind of bond that exists between service members due to the trials that all of them face. This is why you can see two former military members meet in a strange place, who don;t know one another. Yet there is an understood comraderie between them. Even if they served in different branches of service. I personally would LOVE to hear more MoH stories. They are captivating and engrossing if done correctly. Because of the feats necessary to be done in order to even be CONSIDERED for the honor. I only wish that Hollyweird would just tell the story, instead of trying to gloss over truth, make a situation bigger, or downplay reality in order to make it palatable. Because truth, is always betterthan fiction.
It annoyed me to no end when dude disobeyed a direct order in time of war, and then gets all mad and feels betrayed when he gets in trouble for it. Could his CO have handled it better and kept it internal? Absolutely. Was he in the wrong for reporting it? Definitely not. They made the guy look like a whiny baby who couldn't take responsibility for his actions.
I'd love to see a more accurate telling of Alvin York's story. One that isn't enlistment propaganda. I like the Gary Cooper movie for what it is, but his real story is far more impressive.
9:48 Why does the U.S. had so few MOH movies, you ask? From what i can see now as a foreigner, the easy answer might be politics, but maybe there are some other reasons like current-day audience's appeal more towards Marvel-esque movies instead of Military movies in general, but i could have been wrong. Peace out!
Thanks for watching! Please consider supporting the channel by buying merch: cynical-historian-shop.fourthwall.com
Or by donating to my Patreon: www.patreon.com/CynicalHistorian
Click "read more" for corrections and bibliography. First, here are some related videos:
Hacksaw ridge: th-cam.com/video/M2YtA_frsyE/w-d-xo.html
Good history movies: th-cam.com/video/u8MtKb3vIfI/w-d-xo.html
History Movies that Need to be Made: th-cam.com/video/SifuTiw11Bw/w-d-xo.html
*[reserved for Errata]*
*Bibliography*
Jon E. Taylor, Freedom to Serve: Truman, Civil Rights, and Executive Order 9981 (New York: Routledge, 2013). amzn.to/3RX4BmK
Haruki Wada, The Korean War: An International History (New York: Rowman & Littlefield, 2014). amzn.to/3tKJnR1
US Navy coverage: www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/people/namesakes/thomas-hudner.html
www.cmohs.org/news-events/medal-of-honor-recipient-profile/lt-j-g-thomas-hudner-jr-american-hero-and-devoted-friend/
www.history.navy.mil/news-and-events/news/2017/november/Thomas_Hudner_Passes.html
I don't understand something. Why would Hudner have faced serious reprimands? Was it because he crashed his plane? Or because he failed to save Brown and abandoned the body?
Arguably the biggest inaccuracy in the film was the scene where Hudner and Brown shoot down a North Korean Mig-15 jet. Only one Mig-15 was ever shot down by a Corsair in the war and it was by Marine Captain Jesse Folmar from a completely different squadron. The scene seems to exist only to proved the audience with some excitement and prevent the movie from dragging.
All that aside on a personal note, I got an autograph from the director JD Dillard's father from when I was a kid at an airshow. Bruce Dillard was one of if not the first black men to be selected to fly with the US Navy's Blue Angels demonstration team.
Yeah, that a somewhat questionable way to make things more exciting. The worse is that, on the other hand, I wasn't expecting to ever see a Sikorsky HO5S-1 in a movie, so when it comes to aircraft themselves, it seems they did some notable efforts.
A Yak or Lavochkin would have been better
Corsairs didn't see action in an air to air fighter role in Korea. Of course the Marine squadrons are there to do close air support for the ground pounders, but the Air Force also used them for ground attack. With the new jets coming online, the Corsair was a bit slow, but it was very maneuverable, it could have still been effective for a little while longer. But it wasn't my decision. Hell, my father was a young boy during that war.
@@jssamp4442 The OP is right regarding the 1 shootdown, although they weren't employed in the A2A role as you said. 👍🏿
@@jssamp4442 The reason I wrote the previous reply was that the way you wrote your response, it seemed as if you tried to disprove the one Mig-15 kill. Be well.
This movie is what Red Tails should’ve been. The flight scenes, filmed by the same aerial crew from Top Gun Maverick, are some of the best featuring actual warbirds since Dunkirk in my opinion.
I went to see Red Tails at the cinema and was really hoping it would do justice to the men in the air and on the ground who gave so much for their country at a time when their country treated them so badly.
I came out very disappointed as it was poorly written and had many errors, not least the flying scenes of US aircraft pulling off impossible manoeuvres and pilots who acted unprofessionally.
The 1995 Laurence Fishburne TV movie the Tuskegee Airmen was a better movie imo.
Maybe one day we will get an accurate portrayal of the struggles the Tuskegee Airmen went through on the ground and in the air but I doubt it 😔
🇬🇧🇺🇸
@@nigeh5326 Well said. I don't think it'll happen either, but I'm keeping my hopes up.
@@nigeh5326 … problem is, Red Tails is an awful movie.
Not a movie, but the portrayal of John Bassilone in The Pacific was incredible.
I wholly agree the stories of medal of honor recipients are truly great
4:18 just for clarification, Majors has not been accused of sexual abuse, he was accused of physical & emotional abuse, and has been convicted for at least one assault on his at the time girlfriend.
This is not to defend him just so you, nor the audience is confusing or conflating intimate partner violence with sexual abuse.
It was a very decent film of a good bio book. I hope they're able to find and recover his remains some day. 🤞🏼
I've done my own fair share of looking into the many of Medal of Honor recipients like Arthur MacArthur Jr and a bit of Douglas himself and they're very interesting to read about especially black veterans who did some exceptional things in their life time that I sadly didn't know about. This country is relatively recent to alot of the world but its no shortage of fascinating history. While to some people these seem rather silly given they're ceremonies and traditions that seem trivial to alot of us but this is still a way to honor our fallen with a sense of promise that no matter what battlefield you died on or in what war you were in you will be remembered and a legacy still remains and sometimes its worth remembering where you came from. We often need to remind ourselves that the more we face these sort of events in our brief existence it will get mentally taxing and you leave a good piece of you because of it and its why we help those who have been through this kinda stuff so to keep them the same person on the backside. Not just anyone can join the military. Not just any person can be as resilient and come out sane and to just say its trivial is disrespectful for the sacrifices these people do daily. You need these people to be mentally strong to process and go through demanding, punishing things and still come out the same person and be an example for future leaders and warriors. To go against it is a disservice and you're failing them.
I’m sad that this movie failed so miserably at the box office, I thought it was fantastic
I enjoyed it too but covid killed a few great films
How many fucking movies has Glen Powell been in in the last two years goddamn
Looked it up, he's been in 6 in the last 2 years
He is becoming probably my favorite actor and he was in my favorite movie this year. That movie being twisters.
“The Pacific” does a good job depicting the events leading up to John Basilone’s Medal of Honor
In my opinion, the best MOH movie that needs to be made is that of Roy Benavidez. If you don’t know who that is, look him up! His story is amazing!
Don't forget that there was another MoH film in 1956, Disney's "The Great Locomotive Chase", which covers the story of the first MoH recipients.
Edit: Clarification: It was one of the last of *several* films to depict the Andrews Raid of 1862. One of the earlier films to depict it was Buster Keaton's silent comedy "The General".
There is a movie in the making (though last I heard it has yet to go into production) under the title Combat Control that's going to be about John Chapman and his actions during the Battle of Takur Ghar.
Cypher you deserve much higher figures for your videos. They are always well researched to the point and enjoyable for those of us who love good history.
Maybe you could make videos on these areas that would get bigger viewing numbers imo.
Pick 1 MoH winner from each branch of the US military in day WW1, then another covering WW2, another covering Korea etc.
Also how about a video giving a brief run down of each major countries own highest award for valour such as my own country’s Victoria Cross, the French Legion of Honour etc.
Thanks for a great review keep em coming 👍
🇬🇧✌️🇺🇸
You should cover the movie Come and See. I love your videos and movie reviews; and I personally believe that you could do the movie justice. The amount of sources and detail are great too. Keep up the good work!
This movie was special and i think about it all the time since i saw it back in 2022. Glad you are giving it recognition, it deserves a ton, and completely avoids the tropes of other movies that are trying to be anti racist. It shows both of its protagonists not as the guys hwwo magically make everyone like them, but who have human respect, and live in a broken system that does not like one of them.
great timing , just saw it , loved the real planes on it
Watched this film last year as I finished my study abroad in S Korea.
The reason why there are so few MLH Movies is likely because the most prominent recipient was one Hollywood nor Monopolists would like. I am of course referring to Smedley Darlington Butler, whom I personally consider among the ranks of John Brown as far as the very few prominent figures in History I can look back upon in confident fondness.
Man, I'd love to see a Smedley Butler movie. Dude might've gone a bit crazy in his later years, but he was amazing nonetheless
@@CynicalHistorian Agreed
@@CynicalHistorianWould “Amsterdam” be as close as we have?
@@CynicalHistorian I feel like Smedley's story would be better suited to a Miniseries, but that would be a great story to adapt. You got action, personal drama, political intrigue, and police procedural aspects. It would be a great one
I don’t remember even seeing a commercial for Devotion. I happen to be on an airplane and thought the premise was interesting enough to watch 🤔🛩️
I saw it in the theater when it came out. Really cool movie to see on the big screen. Really disappointed it didn’t do better in the box office.
The Outpost is fantastic
Cypher must be big mad at Trump in order to make a brief film review about a Medal of Honor recipient.
What did Trump do about the MOH?
@@CynicalHistorian that the presidential medal of freedom is of greater significance the a congressional medal of honor
@@scaryglobe7157 Did he say that? If so, that's incredibly incorrect. But I've come to expect that kind of stupidity from him. Remember, he called McCain a loser for having been a POW and said that a vet handing him their Purple Heart was "easier" than earning it himself. Dude was always anti-veteran
@@scaryglobe7157 as he was about to give that medal to a donor of his
@@CynicalHistorian It's worse, he Says getting the MOH is not so great becuase "often the men have injuries or dead. While those that get the Medal for Freedom look so young and healthy." (praphrasing but the qoutation is the jist of his statment.)
I think one possible reason there aren't many MOH movies is honestly down to legal issues. I know this was an issue that they ran into with Hacksaw Ridge. Desmond Doss had been approached by multiple filmmakers who wanted to adapt his story, but he refused them all until he finally agreed to it in 2001, and even then it wasn't until 2004 that Terry Benedict was able to secure the film rights. I suspect that many MOH winners, and their families, are justifiably weary of giving permission and signing over the rights to these stories, at least not without major concessions that many filmmakers are probably unwilling to make.
I loved that line on the bottom of the screen that says you don't care about actors and purposely avoid celebrity worship. I have long felt the same. I enjoy the work they do to create movies, but that's as far as it goes. I think in general actors are vastly overpaid. And I am uncomfortable with the whole idea of celebrity. We have a cult of celebrity in this culture. Actors do a job like anyone else. If my plumber or landscaper does a really good job for me, I appreciate it, and their Christmas bonus reflects that. If an actor has a really good performance, they win awards (they give them to one another, weird). But how did we come to elevate actors to such high strata, at the top of the cult? What they do is tell stories through multiple media, visual, auditory, both music and dialogue. It is an entertainment, a way to pass some time and relax, but other than the emotional feelings that have us remembering an old movie with fondness for the protagonist, does it improve our live in significant ways? I claim that teachers have a far greater impact on our lives. Physicians help us stay healthy, extending our life span. And there are many other professions that offer us something tangible and useful, like houses, cars, and even the food we eat. I rank farmers far above actors in the pantheon of my adoration. I just wanted to put this out there, hoping it will bring back a family's love one from the grasp of the cult. Just one would be worth it.
I would actually love to see a movie about Ben Salomon, who covered an Evac of his field hospital and took 98 Japanese troops with him.
I've heard something on the subject of MoH movies that has me hopeful. Apparently, there are some producers who are trying to get a movie about John Chapman made. I hope they're able to do it, as controversial as it is.
I'm just hoping that the upcoming "Night Witches" movie isn't just going to be an Anti-Soviet/Anti-Socialist/Anti-Communist film; always an irrational interruption when talking about the Soldiers on the ground, as they are not "doing an economic mode" when they're fighting a war. 🤞
I don't understans what you mean
There is a TTRPG where you play that unit. You are trying to survive flying missions against the fascists, hold your planes together with limited resources and keep going inside the Soviet military system.
@@jurtra9090me neither
@@jurtra9090 The movie "Enemy at the Gates" is the most notorious example of this, with it just plain putting things in the film that either didn't happen, or were added without the historical context of certain actions. "Blocking Divisions" were not used at the Battle of Stalingrad, and were mostly used, if at all (I don't even think that they were being used at that late in the war), for convicts who elected to serve in the military over serving a prison sentence; the film also makes the absurd argument that Socialism cannot fix people being "Rich in Love" which is hilarious that a character was given that line. Most US Films, even when acknowledging a Soviet achievement, usually has to denigrate something else in order to justify the Cold War, even if it doesn't serve the actual narrative.
@@SusCalvin There are so many fascinating things that happened on the Eastern Front, like I had no idea that the Soviet Union deployed Flying Aircraft Carriers against the German Military, apparently they were quite successful. Or the epic battle of "The Monster" a Soviet KV-1 Tank that went against like 5 German Military Divisions alone and when the Germans finally defeated it they held a Military Funeral for the Soviet Tank Crew and buried them in Full Honors on the battlefield because of how hard they fought; all reports on them are German Reports, which is why you can be fairly certain of the Soviets not hyping the Tank Crew. Or the Battle of Two Soviet Armored Trains against a full German Tank Division, or the Soviet Archery Divisions, all stuff that was not common on the Western Front.
Just curious. Where's the Presidential Medal of Freedom movie? Didn't something just recently say that was better(cough) than the Medal of Honor?
When the medal of freedom meant something, there was a nurse who helped Americans captured by the Japanese who was awarded it. I think she is depicted in the movie The Great Raid, but I could be mistaken. Unfortunately, its value has been watered down, with Trump having the worst impact on that value by turning it into an award for people he valued for supporting him politically.
Turns out, Kang the Conqueror used to be a MOH recipient.
In one timeline yes.
To address your question as to why there as so few films focused on MoH recipiants I think it is due to the nature of the stories. A good film requires a tight focus, compelling narrative, and clear vision that can be truncated, whereas many of the MoH narratives are complex, messy, and fit better within a broader contextual narrative (such as The Pacific and BHD). Heroism without context is either formulaic, like Devotion, or triumpalistic shorn of texture.
It’s a shame because this also came out when Top Gun Maverick was still in theaters, and so many people didn’t think it worth seeing since they already saw Top Gun.
I wonder if Jonathan Majors would also affect future views.
The Outpost was a great MOH movie in my opinion. It actually features the stories of two award recipients.
And there is a book.
I wouldn't call that an MOH movie, just like I differentiated Black Hawk Down from that label. BTW you might wanna check out my review of it, since I was somewhat involved: th-cam.com/video/dvwH-R2Xk8I/w-d-xo.html
@@CynicalHistorian I just wanted to mention it. It didn't receive much attention at the time of release (few theaters/vod). I watched your review when it came out and it is well worth a rewatch. I would say The Outpost gives more focus/screen time/internal insight inito the MOH recipients involved than Blackhawk Down.
The Outpost has actual character development, whereas BHD is just the Battle of Mogadishu. I think that makes the Outpost better, but you know I'm biased
@@CynicalHistorian Lol. Yeah... BHD is a tour de force, but character development probably isn't one of its strengths. I think the fact that you get that character development in The Outpost makes me inclined to label it as something more akin to a MOH film if not one outright. I am also probably biased. I also served in Afghanistan (albeit a different location and later date). BHD quotes were ubiquitous.
You could include The Pacific, it did focus quite a bit on .Gunny Basilone.
Someone ought to make a movie about the first Medal of Honor issued to the men who took part in the "Great Locomotive Chase" during the US Civil War
There was a Disney movie about this event. Filmed in the late 50s or early 60s.
10-4! er, Ten Four, whatever. Totally totally agree, but then again I grew up in the anti-Vietnam war - hippie daze in Ann Arbor with long hair and the whole stigma, if it can be called that because I was a BIG BIG MOH fan, while gettin' high and going to rock concerts was most important, after trying to get with the girls of course. Bottom line is there's hundreds of all kinds of relevant tales that I am certain would fit any genre, coming from the MOH club. So many good stories or the basis for great dynamic story telling. I mean, play down the MOH and just tell the story and by the end of them the audience is gonna be writing their congressperson to issue one! Another perspective is writers like originality and rely of personal material - most are not MOH grade folks. Same is often true for screenwriters, in terms of preferring originality.
10-4 is trucker speak, not Navy jargon
If Im being honest, I did not really enjoy this movie because of how formulaic it was and Id say it was very mundane.
I do agree that MOH winners are a great option for Hollywood if they want to make good, action-packed historical films. I would really like to see Hollywood adapt the story of Edward A. Carter Jr. Carter was admittedly only awarded posthumously (although he was awarded the DSC at the time), but he was a unique character, who fought not only in World War II but also with Chinese forces in the Sino-Japanese War and the Abraham Lincoln Brigades in the Spanish Civil War, and his actions in World War II at Speyer were undeniably badass. Also there would be plenty of room for social commentary, idea exploration and characterization, given Carter was black, and due to his service in Spain he later came under suspicion for communist connections. Its also possible he was a POW in Spain, although records about his service in Spain are sparse. But still, that could be something incorporated into his character, giving him a sense of intrigue about his past.
My one concern is that these stories need to be handled competently and respectfully, and Id worry that these tales would actually just turn into fodder for mass market Hollywood schlock.
If I had to hazard a guess, I would hypothesize that most of the time the Medal of Honor makes the military look bad. If everything is going according to plan, the job might be dangerous - but nobody needs to go above and beyond. Its when the feces hit the fan that you need acts of heroism. That tends to imply the higher-ups made a mistake. Being the last person to evacuate to protect your comrades is very noble - but why does everyone need to run away in the first place? Then we of course get that the military in the US has a lot of control over how films get made, and you're going to get a rather select view of things.
This movie was so good. Its a tragedy that it flopped.
A simple answer to your querry; "Why aren't there more MoH movies" is rather easy. Timing. The best time to make movies about the MoH and get the maximum effect, is during or immediately after a time of American conflict. reason being is that American exceptionalism and quasi patriotism is at a fevors pitch. It is during this time that Americans have been conditioned to want to hear stories of brave men (and women) out their lives and principals on the line for their country. The only other times I can think of, is when the US military is looking to increase their numbers and justify their bloated budgets. Thus, a great "war" flick gets the eyes of young men who look at the heroic (if not other wirdly) deeds of men in uniform, taking out the bad guys and sticking it to "The Man" (the ever present, pencil pushing bureaucrat) standing in the way.
However IMO, the problem with these movies is precisely as you say. They are formulaic. They all seem to follow a predictable script with a few minor changes here and there to make them "original." This unfortunately destroys the true heroism and humanity of the service members that made these awe inspiring sacrifices in the first place. Into cardboard cut outs devoid of personal agendas, true feelings, and gravity. There is a special kind of bond that exists between service members due to the trials that all of them face. This is why you can see two former military members meet in a strange place, who don;t know one another. Yet there is an understood comraderie between them. Even if they served in different branches of service. I personally would LOVE to hear more MoH stories. They are captivating and engrossing if done correctly. Because of the feats necessary to be done in order to even be CONSIDERED for the honor. I only wish that Hollyweird would just tell the story, instead of trying to gloss over truth, make a situation bigger, or downplay reality in order to make it palatable. Because truth, is always betterthan fiction.
It annoyed me to no end when dude disobeyed a direct order in time of war, and then gets all mad and feels betrayed when he gets in trouble for it. Could his CO have handled it better and kept it internal? Absolutely. Was he in the wrong for reporting it? Definitely not.
They made the guy look like a whiny baby who couldn't take responsibility for his actions.
When will they make a movie about the Medal of Freedom, since that one is apparently "better"(because you don't need to be "in bad shape" or dead)? :/
I'd love to see a more accurate telling of Alvin York's story. One that isn't enlistment propaganda.
I like the Gary Cooper movie for what it is, but his real story is far more impressive.
9:48 Why does the U.S. had so few MOH movies, you ask?
From what i can see now as a foreigner, the easy answer might be politics, but maybe there are some other reasons like current-day audience's appeal more towards Marvel-esque movies instead of Military movies in general, but i could have been wrong. Peace out!
Just give more movies about american moral self-improvement.
Forgive my potential stupidity for saying this Cypher but… JAMES DEAN HIT THE PENTAGON
Ashame that this movie is associated with Johnathan Majors
89th