Rootes Group - Britain's Second Largest Car Company
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มี.ค. 2021
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Once the umbrella group that held the names of many of Britain's most distinguished car marques, the Rootes Group, in its early years, was a model of efficiency thanks to the partnership of the eponymous Rootes brothers, who helped to make the firm the second largest in the UK.
Sadly, the firm struggled during the post-war era, and while most fingers point to the infamous Hillman Imp as the model that broke the company, it was in fact a catalogue of bad timing and decisions, both within and external to the builder, that led to its long and painful demise.
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My first 4-wheel car, bought in 1964, was a 1952 side-valve Mark V Minx saloon; very sturdy and reliable and the long-stroke motor would just about climb the side of a house in 3rd gear. Later, I had a 1955 Mark VIII ohv Minx and, in 1967, bought a Mark VIII Estate.
I had such a good run with Rootes cars that, in 1969, I bought a new Mk II Imp-derived Commer Van. What an unmitigated heap of garbage that was! Cold, it would hesitate away from a standing start, leaving me stranded halfway across the carriageway, no matter what manipulation of choke, throttle and clutch I tried. It didn't exactly inspire confidence, with a line of heavy truck bearing down at speed! The thing took about five miles to even start getting warm, too. There was a lot wrong with that car, but the final straw was when the starter-ring dropped off the flywheel, leaving me stranded, some 20 miles from home. The flywheel was replaced under warranty, but I'd already had enough and got rid of it very shortly afterwards.
It was, without doubt, the worst car out the 35+ that I've owned in almost 60 years of driving.
It's funny how everyone talks about the Coventry Climax engine as a "fire-pump engine" when the company also developed the engine to power Formula 1 cars. If course a fire-pump engine needs high power to weight and high reliability - not a bad starting point for a car engine.
My parents had a Super Snipe in the late 50s/early 60s and I passed my test in a Hillman Imp. Both great cars in their very different ways.
It is truly incredible how one generation of British people managed to destroy the entire manufacturing base in a matter of ten years , incredible .
Those companies where bankrupt long before the government became involved.
@@khankrum1 the government never got involved that was the whole problem Maggie and her cronies fucked over British industry to make some filthy bankers in London rich. The French, Italians and the Germans never let that happen
@@MrJimheeren Our manufacturing industry was doomed before Thatcher came to office.
The British car industry was a basket case by the time Thatcher was in office. The Unions, weak managements and Wilson and Callaghan governments sealed its demise.
@@MrJimheeren Absolute bullshit , Britain was well and truly bankrupt before Thatcher became Prime Minister , in fact she was voted in after the the Great Post War Socialist Welfare state experiment had spectactually failed and destroyed the manufacturing base because of Union anachy and financial Labor Party financial ignorance , at that time Britain had to turn to the IMF to survive and comply with its agenda to get the money which they blame on Thatcher .
My father was chauffeur to Sir Reginald Rootes for 40 plus years. It was always maintained that if it wasn’t for a lot more union disruption than mentioned in this video and government interference that the business would not have failed so dramatically.
The first car I ever drove was Sir Reginalds Humber Super Snipe, dad by my side.
SUPER SNIPE TOP CLASS LUXURY LIMO'4LITER 6POT SUPERB WALNUT AND LEATHER/ STYLEOUTSTANDING ENVIED FLAGSHIP USED BY MANY MPS
My father worked at Linwood and the Unions had everybody out at the drop of a hat, I could write a book with the stories he told me
@@williamcampbell6887
Your confirming what many have forgotten that Unions had a massive influence upon industry in this country.
Rootes Group failed as did many others in the automotive industry. My Dad enjoyed his time working for Sir Reginald and always said what a good employer he was. I certainly got behind the wheel of some cars at an early age. Good times.
Some say 'God bless the Labour party politicians and the trades unions.'
Sometimes I wonder why I watch these things. The full stories of British bungling slowly destroying every single sector of our engineering and manufacturing industries is thoroughly depressing. Unrelated: my dads first car was an Imp.
My mother absolutely *loved* her 1974 Imp. She travelled many thousands of miles in "Inga".
You have to take into account the social stratification of British society, where being 'in trade' (ie: working with your hands, or managing those who did) was seen as declasse and 'ungentlemanly'. Given that the executive management of most companies was draw from the privately-educated upper classes - who lived on investments and rents - it's really no wonder that they had no clue (or desire) as to running an industrial concern effectively.
What British industry needed, was a figure like Henry Kaiser.
God save “chuck” simple question
My Dad's first car was also an Imp when we emigrated to Australia in 1966. My first car was his 1969 Hillman Avenger. My most fun car was a 1995 Talbot Samba Rallye. All good cars in their way, and it's a shame the companies were ruined by unions and politics.
There is a book......Apex to Imp........the Apex a Fiat 500 like alternative, to the mock Corvair, with similar problems..........we are not the only chumps, we are just in a smaller market, the lumps of chumpisness just float higher in the water.
Lived in Maidstone for 26 years & the Rootes Garage & Factory were stalwarts of the town centre, but never knew the story to this detail. Big thanks for the insight, and memories, Ruairidh! 🙂
My 1st car was a 1964 Hillman Imp in Loch Blue colour. The early models suffered from an automatic choke that didn’t work very well and was replaced in later models by a manual one. The hot water from the radiator had to pass from the rear engine along the sills to the front of the car to pass through the heater element. This meant in winter it was hard to warm the inside of the car? You had to pay extra for a fan and mine didn’t have one. So in slow traffic this made heating almost impossible. Nevertheless I loved that car and with a roof rack on top my friends travelled from John O’Groats to Lands End in it in the early 1970s. Happy days. Great video.
Malcom, thanks for posting! I enjoyed reading that.
I had one too PLU 141E and you are right about the heating. The heater was under the bonnet and the engine was in the rear. I used to tow a trailer tent with mine and used to go everywhere in it.
@@stephenrandall3551
The Imp always felt more like a car than the Mini being more like a traditional 3 box shape. Driving at a steady 55 Mph - we are talking early 1970s - on the motorway from Scotland to Cornwall I could average over 50 Mpg so very economical. You could store quite a lot in that deep space behind the rear seat - easily accessible from the opening rear window. The steering of course was very light. They certainly had plenty of character!
@@malcolmmckenzie9027 We used to fold the back seat down and put a duvet on it and the two kids used to lay there when we went on long trips.
@@stephenrandall3551
When I was a kid in the early 1960s I used to stand behind and between the 2 front seats of my parents car for most of our long annual holiday journeys south. In defence I don’t think seat belts were compulsory and cars, roads and life seemed slower and less complicated and restrictive. We wouldn’t do or get away with that now. Still we survived to tell the tale!
The Hillman Hunter was a fine car, as was the Sunbeam Rapier. The workforce at Linwood was originally ex shipyard and steam loco men - a bit militant and under trained for the work expected on the Imp production line.
The Sunbeam sports cars were good value for money - the Tiger was a beast, Alpine body with a Chrysler V8 engine.
Tiger had the US Ford V8. First the 260 later the 289. Later taken over by Chrysler but still with a Ford V8.
Being from a Chrysler dealer the Ford engine had a longer warranty than a Ford V8 dealer.
Most early Hunters & Minxes were built at Ryton untill mid 1969, when Ryton was making way for Avenger production to build up stocks for Jan /Feb 1970 launch.
@@johnd8892 Never realized it was a Ford V8 - thanks for the info. My father used to drive a Ford Pilot with the V8 engine.
@@1951GL hope this is not suppressed.
th-cam.com/video/fyqo03zmzZw/w-d-xo.html
Around 3:00 the owner gives the Ford Chrysler upheaval.
@@johnd8892 Again, thanks for the link. Beautiful vehicle, right colour. And it explains the engine issue. My error was based on a Chrysler ad in an American motor mag which I read circa 1968 here in the UK. It clearly stated "the Sunbeam Tiger by Rootes of England - we supply the engine and running gear, plus the British sports car knack" which now seems a light touch to the truth!
At the time I felt it was a more aesthetically attractive car than the AC Cobra - though that was another beast entirely!!
The Rootes Group made some properly nice cars in its day. If I were to go for one myself, it would likely be a pre-war Super Snipe. Elegance and refinement to the hilt!
My uncle had a 49 super snipe he sold it the guy to whom he sold got speeding ticket almost straight away doing 90 mph hilarious
As his company car, my dad had four or five Hillman Hunters in the late 60s to mid 70s, changed every years or so. He went for the GL or GLS spec, with 1.7 engine and automatic transmission. He was allowed any car up to the value of a certain spec Ford Cortina, but opted for a Hunter. He had the earlier ones modified with upgraded transmission fluid cooling for towing our touring caravan. I remember a huge horizontal bar welded to the back end below the bumper bar that the towing hitch was attached to. He fitted rear fog lights and reversing lights to it, controlled by manual switches (no switch in the gearbox to turn on reversing lights automatically when reverse was selected!). Hunters were nice cars, though I'm not sure about having the handbrake on the right hand side between the seat and the door. A nice little feature of some Hunters was that the warning/reminder lights on the dashboard had little covers than you could flick between transparent and slightly darkened, to change the brightness of them at night; nowadays that would happen automatically when the sidelights were turned on :-)
My grandpa had a couple of Hillman Imps: a D-reg mustard (baby-poo!) one with the all-in-one instrument unit with little stalks coming out of it for indicators and wipers. and a rubber bulb for the windscreen washer; and an H-reg pillar-box red one (like the one in the photo that illustrates your video) with individual round instruments and more convention indicator stalk coming out of the steering column. I remember the choke control on the floor between the seats, and the *very* notchy gear-change because of the long linkage from front to back.
Apologies for sounding a bit "Alan Partridge", but to all intents and purposes the Rootes Group is generally accepted as being defunct in 1970/71 when Rootes Motors Ltd became Chrysler UK Ltd on 30 June 1970, and not by the Peugeot take over of Chrysler Europe. The Humber marque wasn't dropped in '67, the Sceptre lll, (a badge-engineered Arrow), soldiered on until '76, and Sunbeam-Talbot dropped the 'Talbot' name in 1954, not the 1970s. The Talbot marque was reawakened by PSA as it had a very short grace period with the Chrysler brand following the buyout. Barreiros, a Chrysler Europe subsidiary from 1969 to 1978, built various Simca and Chrysler models throughout the 1970s, all of the Chrysler 180s from the mid-70s, all of the cars for Spain's pre-democracy, protected market, and indeed built the last Horizons. The Villaverde factory is now PSA. As alluded to, it was the strikes and Linwood that killed Rootes. The cost-cutting on the Imp was just a by-product of these events.
The current 'Mr Rootes' lives in London and is, (I think), an art dealer. Must be very strange to have very close ancestors that were something akin to Henry Ford or Lord Nuffield, yet today note that the whole operation has effectively been wiped from the face of the Earth. Still, you can only see the world through your own eyes.
Nice video.
Once again a plain spoken factual account of the pattern of industry in the 1900s. Thank you.
I bought a Humber Super Snipe at auction in Sydney one Saturday in 1964. I drove it back to Canberra next day Sunday realising that while it was wonderful to ride it was using almost as much oil as petrol. I traded it in for $135 on Monday on a charming Fiat 1100 wagon... which was nice but no competition for the grandeur and comfort of the big black Humber.
Omitted that bought it for $55, sold for 135... and realise they were pounds then. AUD2 shortly after to be what had been one pound. The great mystery of UK cars was the plunge from beauty to ugly, simple to mucky lines.
There used to be a spares garage in Coulsdon, South London, called RJ Grimes Limited. A right tumbledown place full of shacks, sheds, backs off old lorries, and wooden crates covered with tarpaulins. These however were full of just about every type of spare part both big and small for just about every model made by the Rootes Group over the years. They used to send stuff out from there by post to not only every part of the UK, but to every corner of the globe too.
I went there several times for parts for my Fathers Humbers & my Singer & other Rootes cars
@@johnmurrell3175 You know what it was like then, a cross between a disorganised junk yard and a run down prisoner of war camp. Mind you, they had everything there though and somehow managed to know where everything was too. I used to know a couple of the fellas that worked there and I also used to regularly pick up their mail and parcels by van when I worked for Royal Mail.
@@trevordance5181 The good news is that being right next to the station it was easy to get to when the car was broken. I wonder what happened to the stock when the place closed down ? The site has now been built on though the entrance on Marlpit Lane still exists though it has been turned into a domestic garage .
@@johnmurrell3175 Yes, the site is all blocks of flats now. No idea what happened to all the stock or why indeed the company closed down.
@@johnmurrell3175 The business is still going in Coulsdon (which is in Surrey, whatever the current map may say) to a limited extent and is run by a prominent member of the Imp Club.
My gran worked at the Linwood factory. I think the last remaining part of the complex is an office admin block that was repurposed, but the last actual industrial building was apparently the engine die-casting plant, it sat crumbling until 2007.
Linwood had a press shop, body assembly, paint shop and car assembly plant. Engine blocks were sent to Ryton machined and assembled in Ryton. If Ryton had any problems, like industrial disputes Linwood closed within days (no engine blocks). If there were transport problems, even severe winters, Linwood closed within days (no engine blocks).
The Company decided to build the machining plant on an area which was destined for this purpose, ideally situated next to car assembly. look at the video 8:17. You will see the field destined for this in the centre. The buildings at the top of the picture housed Car assembly. At 8:26 (top right) you can see the bridge over which the units were conveyed from the Paint shop on the other side of the dual carraigeway. The Paint shop, body shop and press shop are out of the picture.
The Unions went against this saying that they wanted to protect jobs in Ryton. The expansion was cancelled.
Car manufacture thrives on efficiency. The Unions opposed efficiency improvements at Linwood.
There were many projects on efficiency improvement opposed by the Unions at Linwood. Management allowed the unions to block many projects. Linwood could have been a very efficient facility without Union stupidity.
Weak management and Union interference were the primary factors in the closure of Linwood.
You can still see the fading painted Talbot sign painted on the railway bridge at the Ferguslie roundabout.
I have fond memories of Rootes Group automobiles from my boyhood, both a Hillman Minx and a Humber. My neighbors owned them. These cars were very reliable and were devoid of serious problems.
Minx, Hunter& Avenger may have been old style & simple engineering,but they were stylish & practical . Some models were even better value for money than Ford or early Japanese cars!
@@mikemartin2957 Agreed!
My dad had a 1963 Humber Sceptre in red. It was an awesome car.
One of my early cars was the quite rare, "Sunbeam Stiletto" metallic maroon, Vynile roof, I loved it !! like a toy racing car !!
My mum had one of those in the early 80's
Vinyl
I was brought up in Linwood, some of us used to go inside the dilapidated factory and wander all around it, I remember newspapers just laying there from years ago.
Now the old Linwood factory has a huge shopping area and car dealerships called the Phoenix retail park,The administration block still remains.It really decimated Linwood when the car plant closed.I would still love an Imp,they did get better as time went on!
My first car was a Hillman Super Minx, and I went on to own two Hillman Avengers and two Chrysler Sunbeams. All of which I enjoyed so much, so sad that the company went the way it did.
1. Humber built the Sceptre well into the '70's; 2. the Talbot Tagora was not "low-end" but a competitor to the Ford Granada (in Rootes language, a new Humber). Basically Peugeot gave the Talbot brand a sporting chance but they didn't sell in adequate numbers, so curtains.
The Coventry designed Chrysler 180 was intended to be the Humbers for the 70s ,they were to be available ( on the luxury spec) with a Rootes V6 similar to the Ford Essex V6 , and with the 4 round Lucas headlights ( same as the Sceptre), optional air con, auto transmission etc, however , costs,&Interference from Detroit ment that the project was given to Simca who fitted ghastly low powered 1812cc & 2 litre units & soft gearboxes ,fitted ugly Bosch/ Marchal oval headlights & generally made what was a promising British car to take on Triumph ,Austin/Morris,Ford Consul/Granada & even up comingToyota /Datsun, into a horrible & overpriced car that no one wanted .Resale prices were a pittance ,high running costs & rust were the cause of many being scrapped at 6,7,& 8 years old ! survivors today must surely be in single figures ; like it's replacement the Tagora from 1980.
@@mikemartin2957 Thanks for this insight, let's take the thing from first principles. Humber is classically a competitor to ROVER: Upper middleclass staid. CP: Upperclass "Staid" is Rolls, U-"Sporting" is Bentley. So the first solecism in these terms is the Arrow-Humber - WHAAT? A "little Humber" should always have been an own inhouse development, not a badge-engineered deformity such as the Arrow-Sceptre: 1st mistake (and BIG). The 180 was already not a reinvention of Humber, but an upwards-continuation of the Arrow-Humber débacle: 2nd mistake (and BTW far too American in appearance). Where this thing was built would have been quite rightly purely corporation politics - I assume (from an American viewpoint) the Ryton facilities were fully or adequately stretched, one just wanted to grow underused facilities (wherever). I take your points 100%, but I don't think the "Ryton-Granada" (a new "Humber Imperial"?) would have made an impact, just as the Spanish 180 never made an impact. It would all have been the same, V6 and headlights here or there. The actual and real competitor was already clear for all to see: The Mercedes model "W 123". Who can disavow that this was what the market wanted? My friend, don't look to corporate production decisions within Chrysler for your explanations, look to the market intelligence Chrysler got from from Europe.
Oh yes- the Imp. I had one and the rear engine design caused handling problems on cornering . Most owners found it best to keep the front under hood luggage compartment full of heavy items to offset the rear end drift and lightness of steering at high speed in fact one of my mates used to carry a bag of cement dust in his. But it was a fun car to drive and roomy inside.
I forgot that issue. I had a bag of sand in mind 😂
My maternal grandfather worked for them from 1921 to 1964. From their start to their finish, was one of the management group to guide them to be Chrysler. But the Rootes family interfered with everything from the start making the negotiations difficult. Lord Rootes trusted the team, his son not so; who had never worked in the factories in any manner, and joined the BoD in his twenties. It is rumoured that all that remains is an R on a cement wall in Scotland.
I had a Rapier, 2 Alpines and an Imp. Fantastic cars. My favourite was my '64 Holbay powered Alpine. Sold them as a package deal, when I lost my job, not knowing how long I would be unemployed. Got a job within a week. one of the worst choices I ever made.
Very interesting. My Grandfather was a engineering machinist who worked as a tool setter at the Ryton plant. He later worked machining parts on the Imp development project. I still have his French dictionary which he used in the 1970s as more and more technical information and drawings were given out to the machinists still printed in French.
The Rootes Group. I had two of their Hillman Minx’s. A 1962 and a 1965 and in their day they were good cars. Smooth, quite and vibration free. On tick over it was possible stand up the old 12 sided three penny on top of the rocker box. My current BMW has a job to achieve that!
The Hillman Avenger continued production until 1990 here in Argentina, first as the "Dodge 1500" and later as the "VW 1500"
Ivanostapuk The Avenger became the Volkswagen 1500?How incredible! Was it the Avenger with a Volkswagen engine? And was the model taken over by Volkswagen? Please reply - I can't wait to hear the answers!
@@nygelmiller5293at the time when Chrysler sold it's European division because of monetary issues, it did the same with it's Argentinian counterpart (Chrysler FEVRE). It sold it to VW which was looking to enter our market, as the beetle wasn't popular because of import taxes. VW did what it did best at that time "don't fix what ain't broken", so it kept on making the "avenger" but rebadged it and add a facelift (no new engine).
Later VW latam paired with ford to make AUTOLATINA and made some strange cars like the pointer.
Search for VW 1500, YT has plenty of commercials and videos about it.
Thank you very much for your reply!
We also got Avenger here in the US, as the Plymouth Cricket but was imported directly from Linwood. Because of that (production losses from all the strikes) and Nixon's tax on imports, and lousy quality, the Cricket was cancelled in 1975, and you cannot even find one for sale here! Even more scarce than the Austin Marina!
@@superadventure6297 Morris Marina!
The big Humbers were gone by 1967, however the name lingered on with the Arrow bodied Humber Sceptre until 1975. Much the same way as the Wolesley and Riley names lingered on in upmarket versions of Austin and Morris models. Badge engineering was the term coined for this practice.
I remember my uncle visiting us, and asked my dad if he could help him find out why his carpet (on the drivers side) was wet.
On lifting the mat, he discovered the problem, and that was... There was no floor as it had rusted away! And this was not an old car...
A friend of mine owns an Imp and we rib his mercilessly about it... He takes it with good grace.
The Hunter... Yes, one of the few cars, or vans, that had the handbrake down between the drivers seat and the door will...
Has your friend with the IMP put a 25 KG bag of sand in the front?
Makes them superb.
Engine WHICH IS SUPERB should have gone in the front!!!
David and Lily Reading.
@@steamsearcher Nah, just drive it in reverse, then it'll be a front wheel drive 🤣
@@steamsearcher.......my father had a Renault 8, same layout, less inspiring car.....same fix.
Quick correction. Humber wasn't dropped in 1967, the Sceptre was made until 1976 in estate form. Another littl nugget is that in the 70s, Chrysler deliberately provoked strikes when sales were dwindling as it was a way of saving money as they needed to reduce production and obviously weren't paying the workforce while they were striking.
And look at Chrysler - multi-time loser, that may yet disappear as a marque despite reported assurances to the contrary from the third foreign master in the past 20 or so years.
The £2,400 grant from their Father in 1917 would, according to the Bank of England inflation calculator, be worth £170,267 in 2020. The video said £50,000. £508 in 1963 is £10,878 (in 2020, not 2021). Great video. Thanks, Ruairidh.
Excellent video! I remember my Grandma telling me that she bought a new Imp because it was interesting and unique but she had nothing but trouble with it, she soldiered on with it until it was time for my mum to learn to drive and because of the awkward gearshift and strange handling she traded it in for yet another mini because a learner would have really struggled to use it.
Although I lived through these years and actually drove some of these vehicles, it's nice to see an analysis of the 'developments' of the productions of these vehicles. Thank you.
Excellent work as always my friend had a search alert set for rootes ....thanks!
Fond early memories of the family 1967 Hillman minx. Almost bought E reg for old times sake, engine purred beautifully, roomy engine compartment with space enough to step inside if you need to get up close! Legend has it that Fiat once looked to buy the Rootes Group, circa 1960's and visiting one of the plants questioned how they managed to operate with crudely repaired facilities. Previous bomb damage they were informed, enquiring further, they were astonished to learn, this being from the first world war!
My father was subcontracted by a Vending Machine Company to service and support their reps cars in about 1964. They had Cortinas at the time. My dad said they were super reliable, easy to work on and simple to fix. The drivers loved them, and often my dad came home in one that needed road testing. Most were dark blue with blue vinyl upholstery as I recall. In 1966/67, they switched from Ford to Hillman Minx. What a disaster. Whilst looking quite smart, there were numerous issues virtually from new. I can remember that they overheated, the windows would fall of the track and drop in the door, heating and ventilation were awful and they ate tyres for some reason. The drivers seat back mechanism used to fail and the whole car was super unpopular. My dad terminated the contract as there were simply too many issues to make any money!
I had a '64 Hillman Imp, which was my first 4 wheeler. I love it. However mechanical issues led to big bills and I got rid of it quickly. I rate the Imp as a nice idea, but in practice it was crap.
Rushed development & I wonder if it had been built at Ryton; maybe it could have been more reliable? Imps were more at home in Rallycross!
I had a 1966 Hillman Imp as my first 4 wheel car after the Reliant Regal 3 wheeler I had at 16 years old. My Imp turned out to be a "cut and shut" so I then had my Mother's old Mini Traveller
Hard to believe how interfering the UK government was back in the 50s-80. What with that and trades unions, it's astonishing any managers could cope.
The first car I had was a Singer Vogue in Green - DDY442D, the only major problem I recall was when the cylinder head gasket failed due to corrosion round the steel water distributor pressed into the Aluminum head. I cured that by sticking it back in with Araldite and then sanding the surface flush. That worked Ok until the engine died , I thought it was the after market electronic system I had fitted but it turned out that the pivot pin on the advance weights had failed - jamming the distributor and shearing off the drive dog on the camshaft drive. I did not fancy removing the engine to fish the bits out of the sump so sold the car for scrap. However someone must have replaced the distributor as I saw the car parked a couple of years later.
My first car in 1969 was a Hillman Imp. I picked it up on a Monday evening, took it to school on Tuesday, having difficulty getting up the hill on the way home before it broke down on the way to Glasgow with a burnt-out clutch that evening. Got a tow home and towed it back to the garage on Wednesday for a refund.
Thanks for the very detailed naration of the Rootes Group, much appreciated.
🙂👍👌
All my first cars were Super Minxs and Humber Sceptre Mk2s. A lot of fun and affordable classics.
I did hear years ago that the Imp had safety issues, possibly around catching fire in an accident due to the location of the fuel tank, but we only found out about it from American government sources as it was not public information in the UK.
Just shows how complicated car company history really is! another cracking post 👍
Like watching an obituary of British industry
OKTFG don't be pessimistic, the firm got taken over by Peugeot, who saw the Linwood plant finally established, and in profit.But presumably someone else at Peugeot decided to close Linwood, to close down a competitor to Peugeot itself.Thanks, Peugeot!
@@nygelmiller5293 yep ...a yard sale
Yep, the sell off started around Thatchers rise... all that money from North Sea gas should of gone into growing UK Wind and Wave turbine production, installation and maintenance at home and abroad. We could of been Kings of Renewables - instead we where sold down the river by our very own governments. Asset stripped and left to struggle. Apart from Morgan and Aerial do we even make any cars of our own?
@@cpcnw from Nygel Miller, things have DEFINATELY been "Challenged" in the car industry, but the "Greats" have survived! Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lotus, TVR has come back - in WALES, and Aston Martin are building their first SUV in WALES, too!
If you want to see real idiots look at BSA.
Another interesting and well crafted piece, many thanks. When are you going to cover the British Leyland saga?
Thats a big project!
There's loads on u-tube to choose from. All depressing.
You are the swift voice of clarity and reason I wish I had in my head. I am subscribing solely on your narration.
"mismanagement and poor choices" pretty much sums up the entire post ww2 history of the uk
Yes, nationalisation, a Labour obsession, ruined so many industries.
Due to blind union strikes, as well as conflicts among ignorant British noblemen who messed around in the field of industries, stuck to their feudal mismanagement.
Oh, I forgot to mention the strike-evoking Tories and Labour's money drain.
There's a word for it that summarizes the whole misery adeqately: The word is 'England'.
Americans, Germans and Japanese tried to give a hand. Which only extended the torture. So sorry that the Brits just can't organize. All midlands and northern trains will show you.
See also British Leyland, Upper Clyde Shipbuilders, British Aerospace, British Steel...
Too right, am ashamed of the UK.
It also applies to many companies in the US, as well as to the government, which have made scores of bad choices for years.
Hi Ruairdh, I just love your documentaries. For transport lovers, they are so informative, yet the more soberly you present, the suspenseful and thrilling the stories become. And you're voice is wonderful. Thanks so much. Keep it going. God bless !
Born in 1980, I literally had never heard the name Rootes until in my mid 20s at least. Hard to believe it was such an organisation but by the time I was able to remember, it was gone and really rarely spoken of.
My first car was a 1947 Hillman Minx, which was the same age as me when I got it from my dad in 1965. He went on to own a 1965 Minx 1725, and later a Solara, which I spent a lot of time with tins of filler until it eventually got to be beyond saving. I also owned a Hillman Avenger which I bought tax free in Germany in 1973 for £702. I also owned an Imp, which was very quick, although difficult to start in cold, damp weather.
the best over view and the fairest non bias view on the story view of the Imp. As per all your videos Pure honest and fare. Cheers
The Hillman Imp was a fantastic car (Passed My Test in one) pity about the Head problems and build quality on times.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane I enjoyed that
Thanks for this great bit of history! My family's 1966 Super Minx estate compared very well with Ford's, Vauxhall's and Austin/ Morris's equivalents; solidly built without dancing about on fast roads in strong winds(!) and the 1725cc engine that was pretty quiet for its time and ran like honey. It was duly handed down to me and I drove it until the mid-1980s when the rust got too bad....
As your film suggests, and some commented at the time, Rootes built almost 'too well' and no doubt lost money on some models in having to match competitors' list prices. Certainly, the Hunter that replaced the Minx ranges (in 1967?) was tinny and boring by comparison.
Around that time Rootes stopped all the premium models too, such as Humber Hawk/ Super Snipe (bench front seat, and enormous boot space in the estate!) and the brilliant Imperial as used by Whitehall. Things could never be the same after the mid-1960s. The various shades of TALBOT and Chrysler were the final nails in the coffin. A sad ending indeed.
Keep up the good work👍
The 3 month strike and the government's insistence on building Linwood seem to figure highly in Roots eventual demise , since all the other factors were beyond their control and affected the industry worldwide, but the 1st two were home grown issues.
Because I normally watch on TV I don't get the opportunity to comment but today I am on the PC so I can say how much I appreciate your vlogs they are really really interesting and really well presented. On the subjects I know my stuff (British railways from 1980 to now my career) I can't fault your accuracy or your opinions either. Take pride. Ruairidh.
Well-informed history of Rootes and its demise. They did make decent cars by the standards of the day, back in the seventies it seemed that every other car was an Avenger with the weird right angle rear light clusters. The Imp was a typically British 'good idea at the time' but was under-developed and as a result suffered reliability problems, nice looking though and quick. Love and peace.
The Imp was not unreliable or fragile ! Way better than a mini in every respect.
It had some great points, but it was a fail, be it, bad ride height, water pump position, of filler cap, stuck on the front bumper. You cannot have a good car, with this many holes in its reality......you just have a great book mark in history. What the Imp was, was a shame, like the other rear engined book mark out of Ulster.
Definitely better than mini. Mini an obscenity on wheels.
@Mickey Finn From a technical standpoint, it was. The Imp was a better car, regardless of the Mini's iconic status.
@Mickey Finn You're welcome. While the initial quality problems doomed the Imp, it deserved a better fate. It ran circles around the Mini in every technical regard, from interior packaging to weight distribution.
You must have got one of the good cars. They were rare indeed. As l was told by a mechanic when l had mine, they were either good or bad. Mainly bad he said. That's what l got as did my sister. Still loved it though 😁
Unions - supposed to be for their members but really there for the union bosses's benefit.
Soon after Ford became unionised, their average wage went down by 25% and union bosses miraculously started living in (very) big houses.
Check out the Teamsters union.
4.10 -It's pronounced "Stoke All-der-more". I know because I used to live in that area of Coventry. But an excellent film
He go a roote up into the hole ... That's what happened
I used to carry out repairs on the Hillman Imp, especially with the aluminium engine, the head gaskets were a problem, and the engine itself was very difficult to access! We had to work on our knees to do anything in the engine compartment!
My uncle drove an imp in Toronto in 67, could you imagine driving this wee car next to the land yachts of the day without any aircon & the heater was virtually nonexistent in the winter.
Hahaha .. I had a 1967 Singer Chamois (imp) I actually loved it .. my girlfriends brother lived in St Agnes Cornwall we lived in Berkshire
We would go to visit (a trip of 250 miles) and at no time did the heater ever blow hot .. LoL
The first car that my wife and I had was a 1966 series 6 Singer Gazelle with a 1725 cc engine. I purchased it for £215 in 1979 from an 89 year old gentleman, who had been told by his doctor that he was no longer fit to drive, and had owned it from new and only covered approximately 45,000 miles. I ran the car for 5 years, serviced it myself, the only problem I had was a leaking radiator costing me £34 to have it rebuilt. I sold it in 1984 for £150. What an absolute bargain that car was!
"Mismanagement, government intervention and poor choices". That should be the title of the UK national anthem.
Interesting & well made, More please!
Another fantastic and highly interesting video! I think its funny how its almost gone full circle since Chrysler purchased the remains of the Rootes group only to sell it to PSA and now FCA and PSA have merged together. Keep up the great work!!!
I can’t wait for some Poissey produced cars to hit the US!
"Government Interference". Where have I heard that before, and since?
"The business of America is business." ..Coolidge (?)
Every post-war Western nation, and many others too, but rarely has it succeeded.
Well said John
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help. The worst thing any business can hear," (or something like that) Ronald Reagan.
@@GB-vn1tf Reagan was an idiot (and so was Maggie) plus the sentence was. The 10 worst words in the English language are I’m from the government and I’m here to help. Well the government didn’t help British industry and now most of it is gone forever. Every British carmaker is foreign owned (hell Jaguar is TATA and Mini is BMW, Vauxhall is owned by the French and Italians)
One of my fit car's was a 1958 Hillman Minx special loved it.
I had Hillman Imp, like a little racing car
I had a friend that had a rally spec Hilman Imp. Fast little car. He went on to be a test driver for Ferodo.
With all the style of a soviet zaprozhets.
Well, it had Coventry Climax engine remember.
The never-ending Union strike also plays a part.
What about the never ending company refusals to their workers?
As well as the unending bad management.
@@martintaper7997 Don't be such a socialist Marty. Company's that put the cash up deserve massive profits, I truly believe that.
@@Neil-Aspinall Don't be such a capitalist, Neily. Societies deserve to have put back a reasonable amount of wealth to the community which afforded them the ability to create that wealth, I truly believe that. Honestly, I'm sick of workers being bashed about as being greedy and corporations being worshipped as "can do no wrong" benefactors of society - neither are true.
...striked because the pies in the canteen were not hot enough, really!!!
Great vlog as always!
Another example why Governments should never get involved in industrial strategy. Whilst Linwood is immortalised in song I know of nothing similar for Ryton, which built one of the best cars I ever owned, a Peugeot 206. Would a larger Ryton have survived, perhaps not? But it might have been harder for the French to close it. Similarly the UK Government forcing the steel industry to build two steelworks with strip mills at Ravenscraig and Llanwern was doomed to failure. The few steelworks we have left in the UK are simply too small to compete 🇬🇧
Peugeot 206 the best car you’ve ever owned? Horrible little shit boxes they didn’t even bother to convert the wipers to r/h/d.
That's what happens when authoritarian 'planners' decide they know what's best - FA Hayek told us that in 'The Road to Serfdom'.
Pressed steel in Scotland built body shells for many different manufacturers for a long time, the Rover P5 and P6, the Volvo P1800 and for Volvo trucks under another name well into the 90's. Volvo are hell bent on quality, so why manufacture in Scotchland for so long then?? Pressed steel Scotland still built the body shells for Volvo P1800 even after assembly was halted at Jensen, and Jensen were the problem, not pressed steel in Scotland, otherwise Volvo would of ceased coachbuilding there. The quality and grade of the steel used is entirely up to the Customer. This constant Scotland bashing is nonsense, the Imp was entirely designed in Coventry, and many of its issues such as the pneumatic throttle and issues with cylinder heads were design teething problems in Coventry not just assembly and manufacturing in Linwood. We have built planes, trains, trucks, buses and heavy plant equipment in Scotland successfully for a long time, Rootes was on its way out and ran out of money to complete development properly. Buildinh the factory in Linwood probably did not help, but to blame the work force in Linwood for the demise of Rootes is a rotten excuse. The largest Double Decker bus coach building company in the World, Alexander, now Alexander Dennis who also own Plaxton is based in Falkirk in Scotland, so we have always had some automotive presence, but mostly heavy commercial after the 30's. The production line engineering is just as important as research and development as is training and development, so Rootes themselves are also to blame for the issues. Yes strike action and apathy among some work force in Linwood was probably a factor, but that was a problem all over the UK at the time. Also Scotland was building its own motor cars from the 1890's to the 1930's itself so to say we never built automobiles is rubbish too, some of them winning many UK races of the time such as Arrol Johnson, which is never mentioned. Albion, Argyll and Arrol Johnson were around before many other marques in the UK. Herbert Austin deliberately destroyed one of these manufacturers by taking them to court over an engine design in the 20's or 30's. I think it was Argyll and they won the case but the cost of fighting the case bankrupted them, which was exactly what Herbert was trying to do. Argyll built very high quality but expensive motor vehicles for the time, Albion went into heavy commercials and Arrol Johnson merged with Aster of Wembley which was a disaster for them. Arrol could not afford the development of a new engine. The Linwood factory was also used as a Political football during the Scottish independence referendum of 1979, so a lot of this is political nonsense as well. The attitude of some of the workforce in Scotland and the rest of the UK appeared to be rotten at this time though, so contributed to the demise of British manufacturing, but the UK class divisions and managerial incompetence compounded everything.
@@nk53nxg A cogent response, sir - thank-you.
Other positive comments agreed. Your documentaries are always informative. Thank you.
A good friend of mine had many Hillman Imps, back in the day. He even had an up-market Singer Chamouis and a rare Imp van. Alas, as they got older he was making the most of his AA unlimited call out membership. He denied the accusation that he was invited to the the local annual AA Christmas parties as guest of honour!
My Dad had and Imp and a Hillman 'Hunter' Safari. A solid car that could take some punishment!
I think this was a great effort I purchased a book only this pulled it all together well done
The Humber marque ran until 1976 with the Sceptre saloon and estate...
I had a 1974 Sceptre . Lovely car but always breaking down.
Someone in another thread described the Rootes Group as the American Motors of the British car industry. There are some interesting parallels.
1. Both Rootes and American Motors made high quality cars that were as good as or better than competing brands. But they never sold in large numbers, and both companies were chronically under-capitalized as a result.
2. Both Rootes and American Motors seriously damaged their reputation with the launch of ill-conceived compact cars: Rootes Hillman Imp in the early 1960s and AMC's Gremlin and Pacer models a decade later.
3. Both companies were taken over by Chrysler, which never made a serious effort to sustain them.
Great video, thanks.
Very much enjoyed that, I worked at brocklehurt of Chesterfield, which was a roots group and then Talbot / peugeot
TALBOT PEUGOT THATS THE BACK DOOR DEAL BY MP'S THE PERKINS DIESELENGINE WAS STOLENITS NOW THE MAIN 4POT DIESEL ENGINE KEEPING AL EUROPEAN CARS MOVING ACHIEVED WIT VERY LITTLE EXPENDITURESPENT ON ITMOST O THE DEVELOPEMENT WORK ALSO WENT WITHE THEE NGINESOUNDS FAMILIAR///////ROLLS AND BENTLEYSIMILAR STORIES
I owned a 1955 Sunbeam Alpine for 29 years. It is the only car I regret selling. The car was a 2 seat convertible version of the SunbeamTalbot 90, with a 2267cc ohv 4 cylinder, & 4 speed column shift.
This combo could pull the car to about 105 mph. Not bad for 1955. After about 17 years, I installed an Alfa Romeo 5 speed. Pretty easy to do, and it transformed the car. Top gear overdrive meant 75mph at 3000 rpm, instead of 60 at 2900.The other 4 gear ratios were chosen for use on more modern highways (close ratio box), and it really made the car a joy to drive. It was more of a GT car than a sports car, and really excelled on limited access highways, and all but the tightest 'King's Highways' (not really). I took it on several 800-1000 mile weekends, and it never gave any problems.
It's got a good owner now, who appreciates it as much as I do.
Very interesting, many thanks.
The Talbot Sunbeam Lotus is, in my memory, famous for one thing. It won the rallye championship with one co driver by the name of: Jean Todt. Yes, the man who made Ferrari great again in the early 2000's.
React to change, or go under, thoughs that don't can find themselves failing, and financial closure will be imminent given time.
So many companies couldn't respond or diversify in the past, leading to their demise.
So sad, so many good marques gone.
Wish I had a time machine. I could go back to the late fifties and warn them not put the Imp in production until it was well sorted. Another year would have made all the difference. Mind you, most didn't start giving problems until in the hands of little old ladies lol.
Our family in Dunedin had a two tone Humber80...solid little family car before we bought the first of two Wolseley 16/60s. a 1963 model of which I bought as our family car in 1977.
That said..🍍as our 2004 Honda Edix pulls into the driveway...being in NZ these days I'd only ever buy Japanese or Korean.
I had a Sunbeam Stiletto back in 1969, very nippy, twin carbs & fully loaded.. I looked up the reg online & its still on the road !!
My dad bought a new white Stiletto with a red stripe in 1968 after having had a couple of Imps. I passed my driving test in it. Very good for impressing teenyboppers and getting their knickers off as I recall. 😘
The hillman imp was such a cool little car.
My old man had one, fun revy little engine, but "cool" isn't a word I would use..
True about Sunbeam Motor Car Company: th-cam.com/video/oYu87NcqCxc/w-d-xo.html
The Imp was a very good, exceedingly 'chuckable' rally car. That aluminium engine was tricky to start though, as the cylinder head distorted.
Interesting how Rootes Group’s, and later Chrysler Europe’s demise was so similar to BL and even British Railways
What? Three were destroyed by politics the other by overweening Detroit hubris, what the same?
Government and socialism it fucks everything up.
it all comes down to the unions and the British blue collar workers fondness of a brazier
@@noahswann The two armed hostile camps mentality did it, the management were also to blame. Do think not just spout a fixed stupid bias
Even Ford were relying on body panels & fuel tanks from BMC,(British Leyland from 1968) controlled PSF. (Pressed Steel Fisher)
My first car was a Hillman Imp. It was a nice looking car, white with a black interior. For a second hand car it was in good condition. I really thought l was cool. My sister having driven mind got herself a red one. Bad mistake by us both. I was told by a mechanic later that you either got a good one or a bad. There was no middle ground. My sister broke down umpteen times with various issues. My car needed a new water pump, bearings, alternator to name but a few things. It was towed several times to garages for repairs. Mind you as my first car l still have a soft spot for my imp.
Back in the day, a friend of my father came to show off his new Imp. Was it a Singer or a Sunbeam? Well it could have been either because it had one name at the front and the other on the rear. Or it my not have been either, just a Hillman. :)
I loved my Sunbeam Alpine (series 2)... Someday I´ll have to get another.
The 2400 UK pounds of parental loan in early 1900s would be worth about 250,000 UK pounds today not 50,000 as stated by the narrator
The Hillman Imp was actually a very good car. It did have a reputation for overheating but that was more due to poor servicing than poor design. The alloy engine carried only enough coolant (fast warm up), so any drop in level meant a blown head gasket. Some were modified with a front mounted radiator though I don't know if that was ever done at the factory.
When Chrysler took over the Australian Port Melbourne assembly factory they had to be convinced not to add Chrysler to the Rootes Australia sign on the factory roof.
A few years later Mitsubishi models squeezed out the Rootes cars and later the Chrysler cars with bigger market success.
Bloody Hill-man, this was great!
Great video
In the looks department I always preferred the Imp to my Mini. I loved my Mini, but the Imp looked better in my eyes. Besides, I was always a rear wheel drive guy and liked the rear engine. In retrospect, I think my Mini spoiled my driving prowess and I only got that back when I bought my first of many Porsches. That taught me rear wheel drive again and I love it.
The Humber marque didn't disappear in 1967. The Humber Sceptre, which was a luxury version of the Hillman Hunter, was manufactured by Rootes/Chrysler UK until 1976.
The Tilling-Stevens engine used in the Commer lorry was a 3 cylinder with 6 pistons 2 stroke with a supercharger (TS3), there were some experimental TS4 engines built 4 cylinders 8 pistons which didn't go past the experimental stage to be fitted in the Commer Maxiload as Chrysler wouldn't invest in it, also there was a prototype Humber Super-Snipe fitted with the Ford V8 that was used in the Sunbeam Tiger, i do believe it does still exist
Where my apprenticeship journey with cars started ..... H. Hughes & Bolton Ltd. Lee Street Oldham 1967 .... went to Coventry (Rootes Group) for many courses during my apprenticeship