Honestly I would never. I plan to make my own cartoon in the future and I want my involvement to be worth it. The modern state of animation has really gone downhill and this is one of the things that contribute to it. It’s really ruining the charm.
It's so weird hearing Danny Phantom being described as an underperforing raitings flop But also realizing that in the cable era, an underperforming show could still get 40, 52, or even 65 episodes, while now in the streaming era, it would get canned after 10
People forget that back then, cable would make it big in syndication rights, and for some reason, 52 episodes are all it takes to go into syndication. With it, Nick could milk airings of DP for years. But online ... how is syndication useful when you can just keep it in your server for people to access for seemingly indefinitely?
Say what you want about the finale, but I loved seeing Vlad overplaying his hand and revealing to Jack just how much he hated him, and his desires to take Maddie for himself, only to find out that he couldn't stop the asteroid and had revealed himself to the world for nothing, leaving his fate in Jack's hands, who up until then had only shown Vlad genuine kindness. "You wouldn't turn your back on an old friend, would you?" "An old friend? No. You? Yes."
It’s the only good scene in the finale in my opinion. It is fitting to see the man that had everything and still bitched about it finally getting what he deserved: to be left alone by the one guy who cared about him. Vlad could have had a very loving friendship with Jack in spite of everything but chose not to. And it’s fitting for me that Vlad’s fate is to be alone with nothing.
Yeah, though his plan was stupid even if it did if you think about it, he threats the whole world with this asteroid to become there ruler and 500 billion dollars (why would you need that if you are already ruler of the world?) but what’s stopping everyone from just ignoring the deal once the asteroid has safely passed by?
the irony of the follow-up comic IMMEDIATELY retconning almost the entirety of the original finale almost 20 years after it originally aired is jaw-dropping.
Yeah, tbh, I didn't care for that direction the comic went in. We've gotten enough of him hiding his identity in the show itself, it would have been interesting to see plots revolving around him being known. But no. 🙄
The retcon looks like it was mainly made to have a reason to move forward with Danny's story. Phantom Planet pretty much left very little to explore as everyone knows who Danny is and all the ghosts are more cordial.
As someone who was a preteen/teen during DP’s run, it’s shocking to hear it called a “flop” because everyone I knew watched the show and was obsessed with it. I was always watching the reruns even if there weren’t many episodes, the first two seasons were just SO good.
It was probably a censorship thing, I imagine. Wouldn't be surprised if Nick thought this would only last a season and so let them play off the ghost angles, but once it became clear it was a hit went "Uh yeah... Butch, tell them they aren't ghosts or YOUR FIRED!" I dunno why I pictured a Nick exec as Benson lol Point is as much as I don't like Butch and how he acts, he probably was forced by Nick to say they aren't ghosts.
i will always laugh at the fact that stephen silver literally sold commissions on his website for danny phantom styled characters. *and he sold them for $100, and they looked way better than butch's newer commissions.* makes me wonder if stephen was so pissed at butch's commissions that he just decided to give those who wanted more accurate styled commissions what they truly wanted for less than triple what butch sold lmao
Oh yeah! I forgot Stephen Silver was the one who is ACTUALLY responsible for the iconic FOP style. Also does anyone else get pissed off by Butch's choice of colours, i dunno why he doesn't just copy colours from the screenshots of FOP, the neon saturated look is just absolutely ugly.
@@phabiorules We did and its heavily opinionated, but anyone and anyone whos actuaclly been on forums and discussed and did their own research back in the day (2010 was a hive for this stuff, and I'm not about to spend a week way-backing and trying to recover it all) knows the truth sadly. Mark didn't do the utter batshit indepth research and QA some fans did back in the day, but we do remember. Silver at the end of the day is the better artist and refined all of Hartmans work, thats not to say he didn't draw the characters, or have a serious hand in how they ended up however-. BH's dismissal and arrogance cost him a profitable working relationship and it was sadly deserved.
Exactly because you know how Timmy's Fairies in the early seasons were supposed to be a secret? And how later on in the show's run and during its final season the fairies were blatantly shown infront of Timmy's dad? I feel like if Danny Phantom would've kept running Butch and some writers would've said "screw it" with Danny's secret identity and have him go ghost blatantly infront of his dad or anyone else if Danny Phantom would've had later seasons.
34:27 Those aren't meant to be Africans, they're meant to be Australian Aboriginals, hence the Kangaroo. I actually found their inclusion pretty cool, especially for 2004 since that's a whole people group and culture that doesn't get mentioned very often, especially outside of Australia. If anything, the portrayal of Japan from the same episode is a lot more offensive.
I think the reason why "13" is episode 14 is because of the pilot. They treated the pilot as a pilot that was also slapped onto season 1. It's also why Rick and Morty has 11 episodes in it's first season and not 10 compared to the other ones.
I think the pilot is just the first episode though, since usually shows would title the pilot “pilot”, but here it’s just “Mystery Meat”. It’s more likely 13 is in the 14th slot because the Episode “Fright Knight” had to air before it to keep on schedule for Halloween.
While Butch Hartman WAS a huge part of Danny Phantom, I would like to point out that after the pilot, and before season 3, he has only one co-writing credit and one story credit, both in early season 1. And while he also has directing and storyboarding credits on every episode, storyboard artist John Fontain recently confirmed that if Butch changed just one storyboard panel, he would still had to be credited as a director and a storyboard artist
Thank you, I did feel like Mark was reaching hard to give Hartman his fair due, but I remember the research the phandom did back in the early 2010's and this checks out heavily.
@@Ryusola I feel like his attitude towards him changed when he interviewed him. If you watched the interview, you can tell butch seems really nice and respectful which is completely different from how hes usually portrayed. That combined with his more gentile and respective look he gives things now. he probably wants to see the good in him and give him a huge benefit of the doubt. I really don't blame him at all.
@@micjimster4845 And that is absolutely his right to try and portray to keep his integrity, but sadly I've heard alot of dismissal of ideas that don't gel with his lifestyle choices and extreme motivation to suppress creative voices of those who helped get him where he was. Which is extremely saddening to hear. His streak of unpleasent-ness stemming from steel held belief is a trait he's never tried to dispel or wash off in many circles and it sits uncomfortably in the room of people who come from all walks of life. Coming off as nice in a video is easy. Being geuninely nice is real task.
From what I remember, the writers and producers came to an impasse about how Danny's story was going to be moving forward past season 2. The writers wanted Danny to grow up over time while the producers wanted Danny Phantom to be the brother show of Fairly Odd Parents. That meaning, Danny would stay fourteen forever like how Timmy stays 10(right?) forever. This caused some of the original writers to leave entirely after season 2. Then season 3 came and it flopped pretty hard. If i remember correctly, they canceled the show about half way through the season. Or I could be misremembering things, it's been awhile.
Danny Phantom was already set for cancellation in the middle of season 2, which is why the assumption of The Ultimate Enemy going over budget with less profit than promised is one of the more plausible theories. News of the cancellation hit fans so hard that they literally had picket protests outside the studio. Also iirc there were also some changes in the network's executive employment that also changed the direction of where they wanted the channel to take as far as what shows to host (which is why you see shows much later like TLOK suffer early despite its predecessor's monumental success)- basically mass produce and air the most popular shows and take on other cartoons of a similar skin and more episodic ones. Due to fan pressure and Butch begging for at least finishing the show with a final season and concluding series finale, the network granted Butch a limited budget and half a season's worth of episodes. Butch was hoping for the series to come back from cancellation status like FOP did but it of course failed miserably and Nickelodeon was dead set on ending the show. It's rumored that the original writers left due to creative differences, which isn't farfetched, they don't exactly speak much about Butch even though they make it clear they loved the series, and Steve Marmel did say at a time he was hoping the series would become more serialized and mature like how other productions are experimenting with kids' media (hinthintATLA), but Butch's desperation to please the network by doing basically the opposite caused them to exit considering they had no hope for the show to continue anyway PLUS the staff had to be decreased anyway since they now had less budget to work with. So the prominent staff leaving was a mix of not agreeing with following the direction the show would be going and self-preservation since they'd be losing their jobs anyway. As much as I really dislike Butch and think Danny Phantom is better off in the hands of someone else entirely, I do think it's cruel with Nickelodeon refuses to sell it to anyone else, even the creator himself, knowing that they weren't going to actually do anything with it. And even present day, it's pretty limited to graphic novels as its future. It's unlikely they'll do an animated revival because it isn't as big a success as their other shows despite having a massive cult following. Like...there are definitely prospective showrunners that would want to pick this up and take it to a new platform, but it's stuck in Nickelodeon property jail to rot.
@@AnymMusicEh, I don't care either way! I do like this one better, though! It's fits this show so well specifically than the art style for FOP would've! It's just so out of place, plus it also works better for the show, since it's an action show and not just regular episodic comedy with some continuity here and there like FOP! But yeah, much better here, though!
I actually never realized that I watched every single episode as a kid. In my mind it was so big. This video also reminded me how much Danny Phantom ment for me as a kid, thank you Mark.
When you said “53 episodes” I immediately thought “Wow so like 4, 5 seasons? That’s not that short.” I forgot that that was in 2004 when cartoons had seasons that had more than 10 episodes. Miss those days…
I hate the whole 9 episode season thing now, it feels like a drought even though were drowning in content (i think its the streaming era problem, everything being released at once instead of week by week to allow time for creation)
As much as everyone hates the ‘Danny suddenly has Ice Powers,’ I like they gave him something different than every other ghost. Giving him something that Vlad doesn’t have, so Danny’s powers aren’t just ‘What Vlad has, but lower level.’ I get why people don’t like it, but I appreciate it.
Hearing that he would be able to use ice powers made me think of something that didn't happen. I thought he was going to get elemental manipulation powers of lesser used elements than the common fire, water, wind, and earth. Making him a master of ice specifically did just seem like the writers room were scrambling to make a new power for Danny and then got inspired by his least explained and least useful ghost ability in terms of story.
Your shock with the fact Danny Phantom only had three seasons reminded me of when I got shocked when I found out Death Note was a fairly short anime and not a long-running giant that was in production to this day
Yeah seriously it's still gets memes and stuff even to this day there's not even much content coming out aside from the movies and a one shot coming out
Can you IMAGINE if Death Note was still going to this day? Do you think Light Yagami would still be the main character? Would the technology advance to modern tech so it'd be harder to hide the note? Would it just be a series of just 20 irl years of Light and L playing an increasingly absurd game of Tom and Jerry?
@@xacmashe3852 If Death Note was one of those anime that was still going to this day, I feel like it would be a case of "every season has a new Death Note owner as the protagonist".
Idk why, but I really thought it was so much longer. Like, at least 4 seasons. I remember it was SUCH a big deal as a kid. And once I was finally able to access it because of streaming platforms, I was shocked by how short it was...
As a Phan, I think a lot of the staying power of DP (20 years since it began!) is that there's so much dark shit that isn't talked about. The deeper you dig into the Phandom the more you get things like "hey this kid is actually half-dead and his parents want to actively dissect him" and "how would being half-ghost actually change the way Danny acts" and other such things like that. The staying power is looking deeper into the things the show couldn't do, and because of that I think making a new animated series would go horrible for everyone. It's never going to live up to the nostalgia, it's not going to live up to phandom ideals, and it's just annoying to see so many old beloved series get regurgitated based solely on the idea that "hey you watched this growing up! See? We made more!" and it sucking ass. I watched the show as an adult, and even still it rearranged my molecules and it's fantastic to see how much love DP gets even now. There's so many events and things that they hold; the current one in April is known as Phic Phight and it's basically like art fight but with fanfic! It's a very lively fandom despite how long the show has been dead, but hey, that's what the show is all about, isn't it?
@@thelaurenbox9487 oh boy do I! Phantom of Truth is the go-to, it rearranged my brain forever. Shift by Captain Ozone is another favorite of mine! Don’t be scared by the word count it uses all of them effectively and I devoured it in two days. Anything by Phantomrose96 is a guaranteed hit. The college shenanigans au by princessFanona is a classic. I’ve got my own stuff on ao3 as gladiatorAviator (currently two phics, but I’m working on more). I hope this is a good list to start with!
It's kind of weird how Danny Phantom is the Nickelodeon equivalent of Ben 10: Alien Force in so many ways. A more teenage-audience appealing show that could get a bit more cinematic and serious with its concepts, that gets nuked by the producers wanting it to be a more kid friendly version of itself. The only difference is that Ben 10 kept shambling along for a while due to Merchandizing.
Ben 10 didn't shamble. I mean, Ultimate Alien could be pretty mid but Omniverse was great. And the Reboot for it managed to be as well starting near the end of season 1.
The Girl's Night Out episode could have worked if they just used Desiree in there. Her backstory fits a girl power/hating men episode way more than any of the other three.
The only one there that has a believable beef is Kitty because Johnny has shown to be a prick prior to this. Spectra was just “there” and the whole Ember and Skulker thing came out of literally nowhere.
Despite I don't like the show anymore I would have asked her my 3 wishes 1 to make good wishes for reciever 2 have a guy that would love her and not break her heart 3 live a peaceful life and never turn evil
The episode where Jazz finds out Danny is a ghost always stuck with me. Especially how Spectra made the kids mental health worse. I didn’t really comprehend how messed up that was as a kid. I knew it was bad but I didn’t know it was that bad
Jazz is honestly one of my favorite characters because of that episode. She really stands out compared to most "older sister" archetypes we see all the time in that she actually genuinely cares and is concerned about her little brother instead of being a one-note caricature like Debbie Thornberry. I really like her small character arc, going from initially resenting not having normal parents and hating everything about ghost hunting in the early episodes, to getting more involved and embracing it later on.
love that quinton's, saberspark's, and mark's vids all came out in the same span of days even though u know that they all planed out these videos for weeks probably.
If Danny did tell his parents I think it would've been rad to have the finale be the entire Fenton family needing to fight an army of ghosts, with Danny using phantom powers and his family (even his sister) using their ghost catching tech.
You one I would understand he can't use the name but it bothers me if it's called ghost zone WHY THE FRAG DOES IT HAVE A GRAVE YARD?! and it hit me. Ghost zone, fairy world $100 tells me if fairly odd parents were same universe and butch would say they're not then I bet GZ is hartverse version of hell and fairy world is heaven. I get butch is a Christian but did he use that in subliminal context?
I’ve said it for a while. Danny Phantom was mostly great, but the last season just…I’m not even sure what happened. It’s like everything that felt so inspired became lazy and safe. And then to end on an anticlimax with that dumb asteroid thing just hinders the show’s legacy. Shame, because it built such a cool world for a while.
Not to mention the tone of the last season felt a little goofier and more like a saturday morning cartoon as well. Not to mention how the show got a little gross to. (One example being a student showing Animorpho in his Mr. Lancer form a pus-filled bump on his leg. Which feels like something you'd see in The Fairly OddParents).
@@PlahaKumar I never watched Star, but everything I’ve heard and read makes it sound like it’s worse. Danny Phantom’s finale didn’t fundamentally undo all of its good will the way Star did
@@PlahaKumar Star Ending was so bad that it made me feel like watching the show was a complete waste of time. Seriously this dumbass character Star just randomly decides to destroy all magic and every character backs her up as if she's doing something heroic when she's actually commiting genocide against magical creatures to solve racism against monsters.
I feel like I'm hearing "Young" in the song, but I think this is one of those "Green Needle/Brain Storm" situations where you can hear either depending on which one you're thinking of at the time.
I want Butch Hartmann to do a revised completely unhinged Danny Phantom 10 years later where Tucker becomes disillusioned with technology and lives in a small wood shack in the woods with a bunch of metal pipes, chemistry textbooks, and stamps
LS Mark: "I'm pretty sure more people remember the Ember's Ghost Squad incident than they've seen the show itself" ...this video is my first time hearing about it
it's the other way around for me. never heard anything about this show besides the intro, but i could explain the entire EGS incident off the top of my head
As a kid I always thought the ghosts being people who actually were alive made the ghosts and ghost zone genuinely so cool especially almost every characters unique backstory for how they became who they are and how their ghost powers and appearance reflect who they are in the ghost zone. Reminds me of Hazbin Hotel, having sinners represent who they were, how and when they died.
I loved the Graphic Novel, it found a good balance of the weird retcons Butch kept pushing and still respecting the Idea the ghosts are still tied to dead people. Giving Danny the goal of uniting both ghost and human worlds rather than just beating them up shows his growth! Graphic Novels are the best case scenario for this show, being able to build on what came before without worrying about reruns. It was based on Comics, so it makes sense that's where it feels the most at home!
Imagine you’re a fictional punk rockstar who was no thought or consciousness to speak of, meanwhile a total mental patient who does believe you’re more than fiction commits a shooting in your name. Danny Phantom certainly hasn’t had it easy after it ended.
I'll never forget the time of feeling super awkward around my late grandparents who were worried when they glanced over me binging AMVs of Danny Phantom one day, like I was sitting on the livingroom couch for a good 2 hours and could see out the corner of my eye that my grandparents were glancing over at my screen in between commercials of their movie, they even asked me odd questions (can't fully remember) only for me to find out later in the night while visiting the tumblr tag that a few days prior it was over the news about the Ember fan incident, and a lot of the AMVs I had watched that day had danny fighting ember in it since I enjoyed the ones where he fought his foes. It dawned on me that they were checking on me cause they had just heard a few days prior on the news of a guy not much older than me, murder someone for ember and there I was watching a video in plain sight with her in it. I never talked with them about the AMVs I was watching but I do wonder what they were thinking when they saw me watching DP back then.
100% my favorite part about watching Danny Phantom was that it felt like it was constantly being added onto. Y'know? The status quo constantly shifts around. Vlad was so cool for me since his impact on Danny, making Danny want to improve on his own powers, and showing us what Danny might be able to do in future.
i think you could've just not mentioned the whole Randy Stair thing tbh, it made for a very weird and uncomfortable tonal shift that didn't really add anything to the video except a few extra minutes of padding... just my two cents as a casual subscriber. i enjoyed learning the Butch Hartman lore though 👍
Fun fact, El Tigre also got a game on the DS. And the composer for said game was none other than fucking Mick Gordon. El Tigre DS walked so Killer Instinct could run.
@@TayumeTheMuffinMan El Tigre: The Adventures of Manny Rivera video game was also on PlayStation 2 so at least his show was lucky enough to get a stand-alone console game.
I'm a bit bummed that Mark didn't mention the name of the author for the recent DP graphic novel, Gabriela Epstein. She's credited for writing AND illustrating the entirety of the book. It was not a "team" per se. Although Killian Ng is credited for backgrounds and colors, Gabriela deserves so many accolades for the comic being such a strong return for the franchise.
“He wasn’t even on fairly odd parents until season 2!” You mean the season where the art style changed to its much more distinct and well known style that’s also seen in Danny Phantom?
Nickelodeon had a golden goose on their plate they didn't take care of it they didn't fed it or clean it like with every show they have that's not Spongebob
No joke, I'm an old school Danny Phantom fan who works at Weis Markets I had no idea about the shooting, and, no joke, we've had to do a lesson recently about active shooters
The whole crediting artists and who gets the credit as creator thing is like with Marvel and Spider-Man. Stan Lee had the idea for the character and named him Peter parker and the spider powers, he came up with it all while sitting in his office one day. He asked Steve Ditko to draw up what Spider-Man would look like because Stan was a writer not an artist. Years later it became a thing over who created Spider-Man. Ditko argued he drew him so it was him, but Stan said it was always his idea from the beginning. Eventually, it became the norm to just label them as the co-creators whenever talking about Spider-Man
David Kaufman also voiced Dexter Douglas in Freakazoid!, meaning that he's played two teenage boys who can transform into superheroes. Kind of a neat coincidence really.
I remembered as a kid saying that Danny Phantom would’ve been perfect for tv crossovers and should’ve had his own console video game like how spider-man did even though he had handheld ones. It’s one of those shows next to Avatar the last Airbender that I had heavily adored growing up in terms of storytelling and more mature humor.
Danny Phantom and ATLA do share some curious similarities. Both shows' first seasons are quite episodic and the first episodes don't leave the best first impression. Both shows' second seasons get more serialised, bring characters back and are usually seen as the best part. Both shows' third seasons felt like a downgrade due to being more episodic again. And both shows' finales felt quite rushed and deus-ex-machina-ish. Granted, ATLA S3 is not AS episodic and rushed as Danny Phantom S3, but still. The flaws ARE there.
Overtime, Butch became Vlad, the villain his hero, Danny fought against. 1. Vlad is two-faced. So is Butch. Both are a serpent disguised as a dove (funny show writer /caring mayor). 2. Vlad got rich at the expense of others. So did Butch. 3. Vlad has the habit of blaming others for his failures but credits himself for victories. So does Butch. 4. Both make promises they don’t keep. Vlad betrayed Danny during a truce and Butch betrayed his fans. There is one major difference though. Vlad is liked.
Danny Phantom was basically Generator Rex if it wasn't overshadowed by a show that basically had the same vibe. both were cancelled rather quickly, and both have cult followings (with Danny Phantom obviously having the bigger one.)
Fun fact: Mary Kay Bergman, Timmy's original voice actress, died by suicide...what? That's not fun at all? Then why did Butch Hartman laugh in front of Tara's face while saying it? 😌
Butch Hartman edited that part out from the podcast he originally said that in, but of course the internet archived that clip before he made said edit. The internet in general is quick to specifically clip or archive people saying inappropriate stuff, especially about suicide, just to make them look like a complete monster.
I can’t think Danny phantom the same after hearing about Randy stair and his ember obsession. Truly a horrifying mental decay for a fictional character and universe.
@@mechajay3358 imagine if it was Meg griffin or some shit he got obsessed with "ye lyn from bobs burgers speaks to me every night one day I'll have my own bobby and burger joint"
Fun fact: in the Netherlands, we didn't had season 3. And I don't remember the final episode/special of S2. So as far we know, the last episode was that evil Danny Phantom/Vlad special
I like the "villain redemption" trope, but it can be a bit much if that's all a series does with its villains. That's one reason I like My Little Pony Friendship is Magic so much. It strikes more of a balance in regards to redeeming villains than I would have expected. Some are redeemed, but others have either been made powerless, imprisoned in stone, banished to other dimensions or just straight up killed off.
As someone who's watched the show from start to finish when they were a kid, I agree with a lot of your points Mark. Danny Phantom was popular but had the misfortune of being in an era where tv producers were more concerned with cost & ratings rather than quality. One of the main reasons ATLA stuck around for so long, was because it was a juggernaut in viewership! That's why it was able to afford such an ensemble voice cast, magnificent art & animation, and a stellar series finale. Why it's STILL held in such high regard even today. Whereas Danny Phantom suffered from internal & external issues because of the many points you stated. I never realized how much ire fans & critics held for season 3 until recent years. Overall, I still don't hate the way show ended, I just wish it got a much more proper sendoff.
Ironically, the original Ghostbusters cartoon ran into the exact same issue concern how they could handle ghosts and death. In season one, they were allowed to say ghost more freely and one episode particularly touched on a man who died but wanted to ensure his family he was alright and he missed and loved them. So they did touch on death but in a way kids would be able to handle it and not be too upset (as in sad, not scared) by it. When the notorious Q5 seasons rolled, they were told that the ghosts could no longer be the spirits of people who were once living but just monsters, similar to what Danny Phantom went through, even though the concept of a ghost and monsters ARE different but with monsters, they could tap dance what they assumed would be a 'discussion' about death. Funny, Avatar actually got to show/imply the deaths of MANY characters, including the genocide of an entire nation so...comme si, comme sa I guess. Edit 2: A lot of the concepts you mentioned from the graphic novel actually sound kinda cool. Tucker blowing it is actually funny and him being the Mayor really was a stupid choice anyway. He firs better being IN the team directly rather than being in some weird ass power role. The bullies actually getting roles that slowly take them away from the bully path is something I like and SO Spider-Man, considering Flash joins the military and becomes Agent Venom later on so the idea of the bullies finding purpose other than to make Danny miserable means they can have their own character that aren't just props FOR Danny considering this worked wonderfully for Valerie who actually became a real character once she STOPPED being a stereotypical bully and had her own issues to deal with. Maybe I'll check it out and I'm someone who was never a big Danny Phantom fan, AT ALL.
@@raprips Well yes,it's true.But compared to several"good+flawed"shows we have out there(even classic fairly oddparents)seems like this show has some pretty massive flaws that even interfere with the things this show tries to do right.
1:06:38 Mark danielle was inspired by x 23, wolverine's clone and also by ben reilly spiderman's clone That episode was inspired by the infamous clone saga, but good this time
You made a good point about people discrediting Butch Hartman. I agree that bad actors should be called out when they get more credit than those who did have a higher amount of work on the project. That being said, it's not always fair to have to attitude for those who have a disliking towards a creator, as it can come off as straw manning hate. It's no longer criticism, it's blind hate at that point. It also doesn't help the person you're trying to credit to like Stephen Silver. That's not really a compliment or recognizing their work, that's like using them for an insult. It's like if you really hate a person so you talk about them behind their back, and then you compliment someone with similar talents to them saying, "oh your so much better than that guy." It's not complimentary, it's just an excuse to use someone else to make the first person look worse. For that, I'm willing to give Butch the credit he deserves for his part of the work.
"what was the original reason if we assume Danny cheating was just Evil Danny?" Ahhh the bootstrap paradox, it's a loop, you'll keep back tracking to the same answer never getting any closer to the "start" as far as the timeline is concerned, this was always the sequence of events. Evil Danny was always supposed to be here as a self fulfilling fixed point. Which begs the question, who actually wrote Beethoven's Fifth?
Danny Phantom legit had the potential for such an expansive universe of other types of supernatural creatures, heroes, and villains; it's a shame it never reached that full potential.
I think part of the reason Butch suddenly claimed the Ghosts in the show are monsters and not dead people is because of his religious beliefs, being a born again Christian means he can’t really believe in ghosts.
@@xavierjuno4572 Butch created a whole line of merchandise to promote the show that he pitched to the network. But unfortunately, his products were a total bomb and failed to sell. So there'd be major consequences. After the executives found out about the merchandise flops. Nickelodeon became very angry at Butch. They said that his merchandise flops and overspending on celebrity guests had deemed Danny Phantom a failure. And there was only one logical thing to do, CANCEL Danny Phantom completely
@@xavierjuno4572 It definitely would’ve gone down the same road as Ben 10, with multiple sequel shows and all that …Or maybe it would’ve just got like 12 seasons, since Nick doesn’t really do sequels and instead prefers continuing the same show like with FOP and SpongeBob.
Hit the nail on the head with that "Reality Trip" segment. Could've been really cool if Danny's parents were in on the superhero stuff for season 3, but alas. Great video that helped me go down memory lane.
Danny Phantom is one of my favorite animated series out there, it’s like if Spider-Man/The Ben 10 Franchise (Teenager ages) mix with Ghost Busters/Luigi’s Mansion in one show.
1:41:40 I used to enjoy Phantom Planet, and thought it was a solid finale to the series, but over time I've come to see people's negative reception to it. This special has some glaring flaws, plot contrivances and out of characters moments.
I am glad to hear you enjoyed Danny Phantom. A lot of the weaknesses of the show you pointed out are because of what I can best answer that as a "product of the times". (2000s shows were formulaic in their storytelling; you've seen one episode, you've seen them all; I don't miss that part too much) I think this video is a great introduction to Danny Phantom, but I also think making a series about each part will highlight your stance better. I do agree that Sam is a positive Goth character, since she has personality traits other than being Goth. In my opinion, Nick put all their money into SpongeBob, and now it has became a shell of its former self.
I'm not sure if anyone else has already mentioned this or not, but the trope you mention at 1:13:51 with "The Guys in White" is a reference to the movie Men in Black! It's a well-loved film from the late 90s. :)
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no
no thanks
meh
2 hours about Danny Phantom.
Thanks Batch Hurtman
Its funny how most shows go downhill when the creator leaves. Danny Phantom went downhill when the creator tried getting involved more.
LMAO fr
Also a very similar case for Miraculous Ladybug
I was about to say @@WouldntWeather
Similar case happened to the Rugrats
Honestly I would never. I plan to make my own cartoon in the future and I want my involvement to be worth it. The modern state of animation has really gone downhill and this is one of the things that contribute to it. It’s really ruining the charm.
It's so weird hearing Danny Phantom being described as an underperforing raitings flop
But also realizing that in the cable era, an underperforming show could still get 40, 52, or even 65 episodes, while now in the streaming era, it would get canned after 10
Yeah back then it was longer now it's short
Except if it's big mouth
People forget that back then, cable would make it big in syndication rights, and for some reason, 52 episodes are all it takes to go into syndication. With it, Nick could milk airings of DP for years. But online ... how is syndication useful when you can just keep it in your server for people to access for seemingly indefinitely?
Say what you want about the finale, but I loved seeing Vlad overplaying his hand and revealing to Jack just how much he hated him, and his desires to take Maddie for himself, only to find out that he couldn't stop the asteroid and had revealed himself to the world for nothing, leaving his fate in Jack's hands, who up until then had only shown Vlad genuine kindness.
"You wouldn't turn your back on an old friend, would you?"
"An old friend? No. You? Yes."
It’s the only good scene in the finale in my opinion. It is fitting to see the man that had everything and still bitched about it finally getting what he deserved: to be left alone by the one guy who cared about him.
Vlad could have had a very loving friendship with Jack in spite of everything but chose not to. And it’s fitting for me that Vlad’s fate is to be alone with nothing.
@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 agreed. It's like the one clean spot instead of a stain
Yeah, though his plan was stupid even if it did if you think about it, he threats the whole world with this asteroid to become there ruler and 500 billion dollars (why would you need that if you are already ruler of the world?) but what’s stopping everyone from just ignoring the deal once the asteroid has safely passed by?
my favorite prt of Phantom Planet was dat Sam n Danny finally got together n had a real kiss n not one of their usual fake out-make outs
the irony of the follow-up comic IMMEDIATELY retconning almost the entirety of the original finale almost 20 years after it originally aired is jaw-dropping.
Yeah, tbh, I didn't care for that direction the comic went in. We've gotten enough of him hiding his identity in the show itself, it would have been interesting to see plots revolving around him being known. But no. 🙄
But the comic is not by butch
But by somone other z fan of Danny phantom made
officially comic for Nickelodeon
The retcon looks like it was mainly made to have a reason to move forward with Danny's story. Phantom Planet pretty much left very little to explore as everyone knows who Danny is and all the ghosts are more cordial.
@@danieltsiu7383I agree with this, especially coming from someone (me) who LIKES THE FINALE.
I'm glad it found a clever way of still having it take place after phantom planet but still soft rebooting it.
As someone who was a preteen/teen during DP’s run, it’s shocking to hear it called a “flop” because everyone I knew watched the show and was obsessed with it. I was always watching the reruns even if there weren’t many episodes, the first two seasons were just SO good.
It’s still hilarious to think Butch genuinely try to claim that the ghosts were monsters from another dimension, and not people who were once alive 🤣
He IS such a liar
Especially funny when ghost like Desiree were explicitly stated to have DIED at some point lmao
Well Nickelodeon didn’t let the makers of Avatar say that Jet died out loud, so I guess it evens out
Especially the episodes clearly contradict Butch's claim.
It was probably a censorship thing, I imagine. Wouldn't be surprised if Nick thought this would only last a season and so let them play off the ghost angles, but once it became clear it was a hit went "Uh yeah... Butch, tell them they aren't ghosts or YOUR FIRED!" I dunno why I pictured a Nick exec as Benson lol
Point is as much as I don't like Butch and how he acts, he probably was forced by Nick to say they aren't ghosts.
i will always laugh at the fact that stephen silver literally sold commissions on his website for danny phantom styled characters. *and he sold them for $100, and they looked way better than butch's newer commissions.*
makes me wonder if stephen was so pissed at butch's commissions that he just decided to give those who wanted more accurate styled commissions what they truly wanted for less than triple what butch sold lmao
Oh yeah! I forgot Stephen Silver was the one who is ACTUALLY responsible for the iconic FOP style.
Also does anyone else get pissed off by Butch's choice of colours, i dunno why he doesn't just copy colours from the screenshots of FOP, the neon saturated look is just absolutely ugly.
$100 is honestly underpriced so probably.
@@Fatih_M177”who is ACTUALLY responsible for the iconic FOP style.”
Man, that’s a funny way of saying “I didn’t watch the video.”
@@phabiorules We did and its heavily opinionated, but anyone and anyone whos actuaclly been on forums and discussed and did their own research back in the day (2010 was a hive for this stuff, and I'm not about to spend a week way-backing and trying to recover it all) knows the truth sadly. Mark didn't do the utter batshit indepth research and QA some fans did back in the day, but we do remember. Silver at the end of the day is the better artist and refined all of Hartmans work, thats not to say he didn't draw the characters, or have a serious hand in how they ended up however-.
BH's dismissal and arrogance cost him a profitable working relationship and it was sadly deserved.
@@phabiorules Funny you say that cause i did watch the video at 2 AM from start to finish and my Eyes hurt so back off XD
Even though it went sour in Season 3, at the very least Danny Phantom didn’t becoming a shambling corpse like Fairly OddParents
I mean the phandom is still shambling
Exactly because you know how Timmy's Fairies in the early seasons were supposed to be a secret? And how later on in the show's run and during its final season the fairies were blatantly shown infront of Timmy's dad? I feel like if Danny Phantom would've kept running Butch and some writers would've said "screw it" with Danny's secret identity and have him go ghost blatantly infront of his dad or anyone else if Danny Phantom would've had later seasons.
You either die a good show, or live long enough to become a cash cow.
I couldn't even imagine how worse Danny phantom would've gotten if it went long.
fairly odd parents went on too long but now spongeboob is a never ending show
34:27 Those aren't meant to be Africans, they're meant to be Australian Aboriginals, hence the Kangaroo. I actually found their inclusion pretty cool, especially for 2004 since that's a whole people group and culture that doesn't get mentioned very often, especially outside of Australia. If anything, the portrayal of Japan from the same episode is a lot more offensive.
Yea people will cry racism over anything now a days
@@tackion5371 it was before it's time today
@@tackion5371 nah, those clips he showed were 1000% racist
Oh like that one reg. show episode
I agree, as an Australian Aboriginal. We don't get any rep in most non Australian media. And when we do it's usually mistaken for Africans.
I think the reason why "13" is episode 14 is because of the pilot. They treated the pilot as a pilot that was also slapped onto season 1. It's also why Rick and Morty has 11 episodes in it's first season and not 10 compared to the other ones.
Well well well
I think the pilot is just the first episode though, since usually shows would title the pilot “pilot”, but here it’s just “Mystery Meat”. It’s more likely 13 is in the 14th slot because the Episode “Fright Knight” had to air before it to keep on schedule for Halloween.
While Butch Hartman WAS a huge part of Danny Phantom, I would like to point out that after the pilot, and before season 3, he has only one co-writing credit and one story credit, both in early season 1. And while he also has directing and storyboarding credits on every episode, storyboard artist John Fontain recently confirmed that if Butch changed just one storyboard panel, he would still had to be credited as a director and a storyboard artist
Thank you, I did feel like Mark was reaching hard to give Hartman his fair due, but I remember the research the phandom did back in the early 2010's and this checks out heavily.
@@Ryusola I feel like his attitude towards him changed when he interviewed him. If you watched the interview, you can tell butch seems really nice and respectful which is completely different from how hes usually portrayed. That combined with his more gentile and respective look he gives things now. he probably wants to see the good in him and give him a huge benefit of the doubt. I really don't blame him at all.
@@micjimster4845 And that is absolutely his right to try and portray to keep his integrity, but sadly I've heard alot of dismissal of ideas that don't gel with his lifestyle choices and extreme motivation to suppress creative voices of those who helped get him where he was. Which is extremely saddening to hear. His streak of unpleasent-ness stemming from steel held belief is a trait he's never tried to dispel or wash off in many circles and it sits uncomfortably in the room of people who come from all walks of life.
Coming off as nice in a video is easy. Being geuninely nice is real task.
@@Ryusola ah, so kind of like zach synder.
From what I remember, the writers and producers came to an impasse about how Danny's story was going to be moving forward past season 2. The writers wanted Danny to grow up over time while the producers wanted Danny Phantom to be the brother show of Fairly Odd Parents. That meaning, Danny would stay fourteen forever like how Timmy stays 10(right?) forever.
This caused some of the original writers to leave entirely after season 2. Then season 3 came and it flopped pretty hard. If i remember correctly, they canceled the show about half way through the season.
Or I could be misremembering things, it's been awhile.
Interesting
I had a friend in high school who did some acting. According to her, the shows audience was skewing older than what the network wanted.
Danny Phantom was already set for cancellation in the middle of season 2, which is why the assumption of The Ultimate Enemy going over budget with less profit than promised is one of the more plausible theories. News of the cancellation hit fans so hard that they literally had picket protests outside the studio. Also iirc there were also some changes in the network's executive employment that also changed the direction of where they wanted the channel to take as far as what shows to host (which is why you see shows much later like TLOK suffer early despite its predecessor's monumental success)- basically mass produce and air the most popular shows and take on other cartoons of a similar skin and more episodic ones.
Due to fan pressure and Butch begging for at least finishing the show with a final season and concluding series finale, the network granted Butch a limited budget and half a season's worth of episodes. Butch was hoping for the series to come back from cancellation status like FOP did but it of course failed miserably and Nickelodeon was dead set on ending the show. It's rumored that the original writers left due to creative differences, which isn't farfetched, they don't exactly speak much about Butch even though they make it clear they loved the series, and Steve Marmel did say at a time he was hoping the series would become more serialized and mature like how other productions are experimenting with kids' media (hinthintATLA), but Butch's desperation to please the network by doing basically the opposite caused them to exit considering they had no hope for the show to continue anyway PLUS the staff had to be decreased anyway since they now had less budget to work with. So the prominent staff leaving was a mix of not agreeing with following the direction the show would be going and self-preservation since they'd be losing their jobs anyway.
As much as I really dislike Butch and think Danny Phantom is better off in the hands of someone else entirely, I do think it's cruel with Nickelodeon refuses to sell it to anyone else, even the creator himself, knowing that they weren't going to actually do anything with it. And even present day, it's pretty limited to graphic novels as its future. It's unlikely they'll do an animated revival because it isn't as big a success as their other shows despite having a massive cult following. Like...there are definitely prospective showrunners that would want to pick this up and take it to a new platform, but it's stuck in Nickelodeon property jail to rot.
Tbh Season 2 of Danny Phantom is a mixed bag. It's easily the worst one. Season 3 notably improves on it though.
@@MrChristo93 this show would have hit ASTRONOMICALLY on cartoon netwo--oh wait nope, wrong year.
I honestly love how this is the only butch hartman series where all the characters have five fingers rather than just four.
Take that, Timmy Turner!
Butch prob didnt have much involvement with the character designs.
@@robertharris6092 yes thats mentioned in the video
@@robertharris6092 (luckily he wasn't. Imagine the FOP design for Danny Phantom. Oh god)
@@AnymMusicEh, I don't care either way! I do like this one better, though! It's fits this show so well specifically than the art style for FOP would've! It's just so out of place, plus it also works better for the show, since it's an action show and not just regular episodic comedy with some continuity here and there like FOP! But yeah, much better here, though!
Vlad’s voice actor Martin Mull just passed away. R.I.P.
Awe damn. He did a good job as well as Vlad. Rest in peace...
RIP you will be missed
NOOOOOO!!! 😭😭😭😭😭
I actually never realized that I watched every single episode as a kid. In my mind it was so big. This video also reminded me how much Danny Phantom ment for me as a kid, thank you Mark.
When you said “53 episodes” I immediately thought “Wow so like 4, 5 seasons? That’s not that short.” I forgot that that was in 2004 when cartoons had seasons that had more than 10 episodes. Miss those days…
Yeah, cartoon seasons nowadays either feel too short or too long.
its weird seeing and hearing 8-10 episodes being called a season nowadays
I'm used seasons being 20-24 episodes long or longer
Yu Gi Oh had 48 episodes per season and was hand drawn. Now they've got all that fancy tech that makes animation look better, but release nothing
I hate the whole 9 episode season thing now, it feels like a drought even though were drowning in content (i think its the streaming era problem, everything being released at once instead of week by week to allow time for creation)
@@black4halo triple comment, look at this n00b
As much as everyone hates the ‘Danny suddenly has Ice Powers,’ I like they gave him something different than every other ghost. Giving him something that Vlad doesn’t have, so Danny’s powers aren’t just ‘What Vlad has, but lower level.’ I get why people don’t like it, but I appreciate it.
Yeah I think it's cool that the chill he gets from his ghost sense was an early sign that he was getting ice powers.
I like how the ghosts have unique abilities sure some of them overlap but still.
Hearing that he would be able to use ice powers made me think of something that didn't happen. I thought he was going to get elemental manipulation powers of lesser used elements than the common fire, water, wind, and earth. Making him a master of ice specifically did just seem like the writers room were scrambling to make a new power for Danny and then got inspired by his least explained and least useful ghost ability in terms of story.
I do like the idea of him having something different. I just don't know why it was ice powers specifically.
I never got the hate, I thought it was dope he had ice powers.
Your shock with the fact Danny Phantom only had three seasons reminded me of when I got shocked when I found out Death Note was a fairly short anime and not a long-running giant that was in production to this day
Yeah seriously it's still gets memes and stuff even to this day there's not even much content coming out aside from the movies and a one shot coming out
Can you IMAGINE if Death Note was still going to this day? Do you think Light Yagami would still be the main character? Would the technology advance to modern tech so it'd be harder to hide the note? Would it just be a series of just 20 irl years of Light and L playing an increasingly absurd game of Tom and Jerry?
@@xacmashe3852nah there would be a new Kira that also takes the title of L from light once he dies of old age
@@xacmashe3852 If Death Note was one of those anime that was still going to this day, I feel like it would be a case of "every season has a new Death Note owner as the protagonist".
Idk why, but I really thought it was so much longer. Like, at least 4 seasons. I remember it was SUCH a big deal as a kid. And once I was finally able to access it because of streaming platforms, I was shocked by how short it was...
As a Phan, I think a lot of the staying power of DP (20 years since it began!) is that there's so much dark shit that isn't talked about. The deeper you dig into the Phandom the more you get things like "hey this kid is actually half-dead and his parents want to actively dissect him" and "how would being half-ghost actually change the way Danny acts" and other such things like that. The staying power is looking deeper into the things the show couldn't do, and because of that I think making a new animated series would go horrible for everyone. It's never going to live up to the nostalgia, it's not going to live up to phandom ideals, and it's just annoying to see so many old beloved series get regurgitated based solely on the idea that "hey you watched this growing up! See? We made more!" and it sucking ass. I watched the show as an adult, and even still it rearranged my molecules and it's fantastic to see how much love DP gets even now. There's so many events and things that they hold; the current one in April is known as Phic Phight and it's basically like art fight but with fanfic! It's a very lively fandom despite how long the show has been dead, but hey, that's what the show is all about, isn't it?
Hey I know that's out of nowhere but do you have any Phics recommendations for someone who's starting to watch the show?
@@thelaurenbox9487 oh boy do I! Phantom of Truth is the go-to, it rearranged my brain forever. Shift by Captain Ozone is another favorite of mine! Don’t be scared by the word count it uses all of them effectively and I devoured it in two days. Anything by Phantomrose96 is a guaranteed hit. The college shenanigans au by princessFanona is a classic. I’ve got my own stuff on ao3 as gladiatorAviator (currently two phics, but I’m working on more). I hope this is a good list to start with!
The fact that Lab Rat IMMEDIATELY came to mind reading "his parents want to actively dissect him" GOD it's SUCH A GOOD FIC.
It's kind of weird how Danny Phantom is the Nickelodeon equivalent of Ben 10: Alien Force in so many ways.
A more teenage-audience appealing show that could get a bit more cinematic and serious with its concepts, that gets nuked by the producers wanting it to be a more kid friendly version of itself.
The only difference is that Ben 10 kept shambling along for a while due to Merchandizing.
Ben 10 didn't shamble. I mean, Ultimate Alien could be pretty mid but Omniverse was great. And the Reboot for it managed to be as well starting near the end of season 1.
Nah while there could be low, especially In UA it recovered.
I HATE Omniverse with a passion. What a huge downgrade from what came before.
Did you just eat the baby
I love every Ben 10 thing ever that isn’t the reboot
One thing I love about this show is how all the title cards look like movie theater posters.
Its so good!!
There supposed to look like comic covers
@@alchemistofsteel8099yeah this show obviously has a lot of influence from Mavel and Dc
@@alchemistofsteel8099what do you think movie posters started out imitating?
This comment hit 300 likes at 14:12
Man, first saberspark.
Than Lsmark.
Butch is the talk of the town.
Quinton also throwing his hat into the ring
mark was also kind of IN the saberspark video
when he's talking about some people actually being happy with butch's commissions
The Charlie pfp is way too fitting lmao
Butch deserves all of the (negative) attention he’s getting. Good riddance.
@@RedShadowAMV what was his video?
I feel like Butch is a greek myth. Cursed to have pretty interesting ideas but doomed to fail via self sabotage.
sisyphus
@@wm7ap7w41Is that the king who try cheated death and capture the god of war who ends up pushing the iconic boulder forever?
@dante_0962 no it's an STD.
@@dante_0962boulder.
@@dante_0962Yes. Yes he is.
The Girl's Night Out episode could have worked if they just used Desiree in there. Her backstory fits a girl power/hating men episode way more than any of the other three.
The only one there that has a believable beef is Kitty because Johnny has shown to be a prick prior to this. Spectra was just “there” and the whole Ember and Skulker thing came out of literally nowhere.
her backstory was that a woman kicked her out.
@@JurassicReptile well if that doesn't break the crust
Despite I don't like the show anymore I would have asked her my 3 wishes
1 to make good wishes for reciever
2 have a guy that would love her and not break her heart
3 live a peaceful life and never turn evil
Yeah, I'd pull a Aladdin Genie with Desiree too.@blueraccoon1088
You know, forget getting a cat for his insanity. Vlad really should consider a therapist for his obsession with both Jack and Danny.
He named the cat “Maddie” no therapist would be able to help that.
I can only imagine they're response to the whole cloning ordeal.
The episode where Jazz finds out Danny is a ghost always stuck with me. Especially how Spectra made the kids mental health worse. I didn’t really comprehend how messed up that was as a kid. I knew it was bad but I didn’t know it was that bad
Insane motive for a kids' cartoon villain.
Jazz is honestly one of my favorite characters because of that episode. She really stands out compared to most "older sister" archetypes we see all the time in that she actually genuinely cares and is concerned about her little brother instead of being a one-note caricature like Debbie Thornberry.
I really like her small character arc, going from initially resenting not having normal parents and hating everything about ghost hunting in the early episodes, to getting more involved and embracing it later on.
Honestly I really loved this show and it was a large part of my childhood. It still hurts to see Butch Hartmans reputation in the toilet.
Idk from what ive heard he didnt really contribute much as to why this show became so big in the 2000s
I mean, he’s kinda the reason the show fell off so hard unfortunately
Butch Hartman basically became an anti-fairy overtime
@@mariajimenafigueroa233no more like the clown the anti-fairies adopted as a baby.
@@mariajimenafigueroa233more like the Clown who was adopted by the anti-fairies.
Danny's logo on his chest was actually a idea from the producers because they felt the suit was too plain without it.
great call honestly. It's pretty iconic.
love that quinton's, saberspark's, and mark's vids all came out in the same span of days even though u know that they all planed out these videos for weeks probably.
If Danny did tell his parents I think it would've been rad to have the finale be the entire Fenton family needing to fight an army of ghosts, with Danny using phantom powers and his family (even his sister) using their ghost catching tech.
Fun fact. The ghost zone was originally supposed to be called the phantom zone, but DC already claimed that name for the Superman Mythos
If it's any consolation, I would have called it the spirit zone or something.
@@angelmarin6442 For me, I was thinking perhaps spectral zone?
@SonicLegends Hey, that's a good name!
@@angelmarin6442 Thanks
You one I would understand he can't use the name but it bothers me if it's called ghost zone WHY THE FRAG DOES IT HAVE A GRAVE YARD?! and it hit me. Ghost zone, fairy world $100 tells me if fairly odd parents were same universe and butch would say they're not then I bet GZ is hartverse version of hell and fairy world is heaven. I get butch is a Christian but did he use that in subliminal context?
The Irony of you calling Butch racist for "having a kangaroo in Africa" and you not knowing those people were Australian Aborignals is hysterical.
To be fair he didn’t make a huge issue or screech reee. He just genuinely didn’t know 🤷♂️
You’re saying this to a guy who thought the Bloods and Crips were just “groups” in South Park.
@@umwha it isn't a huge issue, i literally just thought it was hysterical the irony.
@@ShatteredPedestal7 holy shit when did he say that?, that's hilarious
@@normiekilla6663 when he did the South Park episode review, don’t remember what timestamp.
But one of the top comments in that vid points it out.
I’ve said it for a while. Danny Phantom was mostly great, but the last season just…I’m not even sure what happened. It’s like everything that felt so inspired became lazy and safe. And then to end on an anticlimax with that dumb asteroid thing just hinders the show’s legacy. Shame, because it built such a cool world for a while.
Not to mention the tone of the last season felt a little goofier and more like a saturday morning cartoon as well. Not to mention how the show got a little gross to. (One example being a student showing Animorpho in his Mr. Lancer form a pus-filled bump on his leg. Which feels like something you'd see in The Fairly OddParents).
@@Du-yw1pz yeah, it fell into the traps that plagued Fairly Oddparents and other Nick shows.
Which finale do you think is worse: Danny Phantom's finale or Star vs the Forces of evils finale?
@@PlahaKumar I never watched Star, but everything I’ve heard and read makes it sound like it’s worse. Danny Phantom’s finale didn’t fundamentally undo all of its good will the way Star did
@@PlahaKumar Star Ending was so bad that it made me feel like watching the show was a complete waste of time. Seriously this dumbass character Star just randomly decides to destroy all magic and every character backs her up as if she's doing something heroic when she's actually commiting genocide against magical creatures to solve racism against monsters.
I feel like I'm hearing "Young" in the song, but I think this is one of those "Green Needle/Brain Storm" situations where you can hear either depending on which one you're thinking of at the time.
For sure. I can hear both.
Im hearing young too I think it is just because of how he says it.
I want Butch Hartmann to do a revised completely unhinged Danny Phantom 10 years later where Tucker becomes disillusioned with technology and lives in a small wood shack in the woods with a bunch of metal pipes, chemistry textbooks, and stamps
he did something like that, and it showed how little he made this series (but loves to steal all the credit for)
I mean, 5YL exists
LS Mark: "I'm pretty sure more people remember the Ember's Ghost Squad incident than they've seen the show itself"
...this video is my first time hearing about it
it's the other way around for me. never heard anything about this show besides the intro, but i could explain the entire EGS incident off the top of my head
Holy heck, I am seeing you everywhere.
Not that it's a problem, just that it happens a lot.
@@SteveCrafts2k This comment was made at 22:29
22:31
Same
Mark not watching avatar and avoiding it is absolutely criminal. Im so surprised mark of all ppl (biggest Nickelodeon fan) hasn’t seen avatar.
Yeah that's such a weird thing to do??
I mean, that's just a thing kids do sometimes. "X thing is taking away time from Y thing? I don't like X thing now".
Let's be real, if Danny said "Bababooey" the show wouldve been renewed for atleast 5 seasons😌
As a kid I always thought the ghosts being people who actually were alive made the ghosts and ghost zone genuinely so cool especially almost every characters unique backstory for how they became who they are and how their ghost powers and appearance reflect who they are in the ghost zone. Reminds me of Hazbin Hotel, having sinners represent who they were, how and when they died.
I love how we just forgot that Skulker is just a tiny dude controlling a suits not an actual buff ghost 😂
I loved the Graphic Novel, it found a good balance of the weird retcons Butch kept pushing and still respecting the Idea the ghosts are still tied to dead people. Giving Danny the goal of uniting both ghost and human worlds rather than just beating them up shows his growth! Graphic Novels are the best case scenario for this show, being able to build on what came before without worrying about reruns. It was based on Comics, so it makes sense that's where it feels the most at home!
Imagine you’re a fictional punk rockstar who was no thought or consciousness to speak of, meanwhile a total mental patient who does believe you’re more than fiction commits a shooting in your name. Danny Phantom certainly hasn’t had it easy after it ended.
Tbf it was just grocery shop employees, not like it was anyone important
I'll never forget the time of feeling super awkward around my late grandparents who were worried when they glanced over me binging AMVs of Danny Phantom one day, like I was sitting on the livingroom couch for a good 2 hours and could see out the corner of my eye that my grandparents were glancing over at my screen in between commercials of their movie, they even asked me odd questions (can't fully remember) only for me to find out later in the night while visiting the tumblr tag that a few days prior it was over the news about the Ember fan incident, and a lot of the AMVs I had watched that day had danny fighting ember in it since I enjoyed the ones where he fought his foes.
It dawned on me that they were checking on me cause they had just heard a few days prior on the news of a guy not much older than me, murder someone for ember and there I was watching a video in plain sight with her in it. I never talked with them about the AMVs I was watching but I do wonder what they were thinking when they saw me watching DP back then.
@@MrPsyren99So apparently the lives of innocent people aren’t important? F*ck off.
@@MrPsyren99 well well aren't we just a little bit edgey today
Bruh@@MrPsyren99
100% my favorite part about watching Danny Phantom was that it felt like it was constantly being added onto. Y'know? The status quo constantly shifts around. Vlad was so cool for me since his impact on Danny, making Danny want to improve on his own powers, and showing us what Danny might be able to do in future.
That makes the part where he wipes his parents' memory all the more frustrating, nevermind it not making any sense to begin with.
@@chimerschang yeah. I liked when decisions stuck. A memory wipe is just a cop out that I was never huge on
i think you could've just not mentioned the whole Randy Stair thing tbh, it made for a very weird and uncomfortable tonal shift that didn't really add anything to the video except a few extra minutes of padding... just my two cents as a casual subscriber. i enjoyed learning the Butch Hartman lore though 👍
Fun fact, El Tigre also got a game on the DS. And the composer for said game was none other than fucking Mick Gordon. El Tigre DS walked so Killer Instinct could run.
El Tigre was super underrated
@@OldSkoolWheniRide So I've heard! I've never actually seen it myself, but it looks pretty good.
@@TayumeTheMuffinMan El Tigre: The Adventures of Manny Rivera video game was also on PlayStation 2 so at least his show was lucky enough to get a stand-alone console game.
The Danny Phantom intro is so shockingly good to me, I'm low-key going ghost myself every time I listen to it, what a bop!
I always forget Ron Perlman is known this show. It’s legit my favorite voice acting role he’s done. He went all out for Danny Phantom of all things.
"CHICKEN SOUP FOR THE SOUL", YOU'RE RIGHT!
At least this series never got the fairly oddparents treatment…
Yep.
And Phantom Planet ended the show on a good enough note.
I'm a bit bummed that Mark didn't mention the name of the author for the recent DP graphic novel, Gabriela Epstein. She's credited for writing AND illustrating the entirety of the book. It was not a "team" per se. Although Killian Ng is credited for backgrounds and colors, Gabriela deserves so many accolades for the comic being such a strong return for the franchise.
“He wasn’t even on fairly odd parents until season 2!”
You mean the season where the art style changed to its much more distinct and well known style that’s also seen in Danny Phantom?
I’d make the argument that the style doesn’t necessarily change, it just gets tighter and more consistent
The "pair of agents" thing is just because Men in Black was popular I assume, I mean "Guys in White" is an obvious parody the name too.
Nickelodeon had a golden goose on their plate they didn't take care of it they didn't fed it or clean it like with every show they have that's not Spongebob
it really makes you wonder what nick would be like now if they actually let spongebob end after the first movie like it intended to.
No joke, I'm an old school Danny Phantom fan who works at Weis Markets
I had no idea about the shooting, and, no joke, we've had to do a lesson recently about active shooters
The whole crediting artists and who gets the credit as creator thing is like with Marvel and Spider-Man. Stan Lee had the idea for the character and named him Peter parker and the spider powers, he came up with it all while sitting in his office one day. He asked Steve Ditko to draw up what Spider-Man would look like because Stan was a writer not an artist. Years later it became a thing over who created Spider-Man. Ditko argued he drew him so it was him, but Stan said it was always his idea from the beginning. Eventually, it became the norm to just label them as the co-creators whenever talking about Spider-Man
David Kaufman also voiced Dexter Douglas in Freakazoid!, meaning that he's played two teenage boys who can transform into superheroes. Kind of a neat coincidence really.
26:44 apparently Butch originally wanted Danny to be played by an actual 14 year old boy but couldn’t find the right kid voice
Ok. That makes sense.
When he said "Store Shootings" in the intro I somehow knew what he was talking about despite never seeing the show. Good video!
My uncle did that
@@joeyravioli 😮 wowzers
@@joeyravioliwait is that true
@@jadenbryant9283No it was just an edgy joke im sorry 😢 (To clarify, I didnt mean Randy was my uncle)
The entire danny phantom phandom:
"QUIT TELLIN EVERYONE I'M DEAD!"
Fandom, phandom. Ha that’s clever
I remembered as a kid saying that Danny Phantom would’ve been perfect for tv crossovers and should’ve had his own console video game like how spider-man did even though he had handheld ones. It’s one of those shows next to Avatar the last Airbender that I had heavily adored growing up in terms of storytelling and more mature humor.
Danny Phantom and ATLA do share some curious similarities.
Both shows' first seasons are quite episodic and the first episodes don't leave the best first impression.
Both shows' second seasons get more serialised, bring characters back and are usually seen as the best part.
Both shows' third seasons felt like a downgrade due to being more episodic again.
And both shows' finales felt quite rushed and deus-ex-machina-ish.
Granted, ATLA S3 is not AS episodic and rushed as Danny Phantom S3, but still. The flaws ARE there.
Overtime, Butch became Vlad, the villain his hero, Danny fought against.
1. Vlad is two-faced. So is Butch. Both are a serpent disguised as a dove (funny show writer /caring mayor).
2. Vlad got rich at the expense of others. So did Butch.
3. Vlad has the habit of blaming others for his failures but credits himself for victories. So does Butch.
4. Both make promises they don’t keep. Vlad betrayed Danny during a truce and Butch betrayed his fans.
There is one major difference though. Vlad is liked.
Danny Phantom was basically Generator Rex if it wasn't overshadowed by a show that basically had the same vibe. both were cancelled rather quickly, and both have cult followings (with Danny Phantom obviously having the bigger one.)
34:30 that’s not trying to depict Africa it’s depicting Aboriginal Australia
Making sure that was pointed out before I said anything
Yeah, bit of a blunder on his end.
Thank you. I wanted to point this out, but glad someone else did.
@@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor I hope someone got fired for that one
@@TheGloriousLobsterEmperorMaybe the real racism was the friends we made along the way
Fun fact: Mary Kay Bergman, Timmy's original voice actress, died by suicide...what? That's not fun at all? Then why did Butch Hartman laugh in front of Tara's face while saying it? 😌
Because he a sociopath
I think he also kinda blamed Mary Kate Bergman’s death on Tara Strong (She was friends with Bergman)
Butch Hartman edited that part out from the podcast he originally said that in, but of course the internet archived that clip before he made said edit. The internet in general is quick to specifically clip or archive people saying inappropriate stuff, especially about suicide, just to make them look like a complete monster.
@@andykishore What other way is there to take Butch joking that Mary killed herself after Tara secured her role???
@@TECH097 Unfortunately for Butch, the internet NEVER forgets.
LS Mark finally did it.
He covered Danny Phantom as a justice call.
37:21 THE PASSIVEAGGRESIVE MOOD OF THIS SLOW FADE IS KILLING ME 😂
I can’t think Danny phantom the same after hearing about Randy stair and his ember obsession. Truly a horrifying mental decay for a fictional character and universe.
That guy had problems long before watching Danny Phantom, if it wasn't this show, it would've been something else that pushed him over the edge.
@@mechajay3358 imagine if it was Meg griffin or some shit he got obsessed with "ye lyn from bobs burgers speaks to me every night one day I'll have my own bobby and burger joint"
The second I got finished with Saber’s 2 hour Butch Hartman video…
Also Quintons 7 hour nicktoons unite vid
The difference is that he actually soft defends Butch.
@@pinstripecool34Nope, no lolcows
“They weren’t people they were just monsters.” *Shows Ember on the screen as an example*
Fun fact: in the Netherlands, we didn't had season 3. And I don't remember the final episode/special of S2.
So as far we know, the last episode was that evil Danny Phantom/Vlad special
I like the "villain redemption" trope, but it can be a bit much if that's all a series does with its villains. That's one reason I like My Little Pony Friendship is Magic so much. It strikes more of a balance in regards to redeeming villains than I would have expected. Some are redeemed, but others have either been made powerless, imprisoned in stone, banished to other dimensions or just straight up killed off.
*Cough*StevenUniverse*Cough*
As someone who's watched the show from start to finish when they were a kid, I agree with a lot of your points Mark. Danny Phantom was popular but had the misfortune of being in an era where tv producers were more concerned with cost & ratings rather than quality. One of the main reasons ATLA stuck around for so long, was because it was a juggernaut in viewership! That's why it was able to afford such an ensemble voice cast, magnificent art & animation, and a stellar series finale. Why it's STILL held in such high regard even today. Whereas Danny Phantom suffered from internal & external issues because of the many points you stated. I never realized how much ire fans & critics held for season 3 until recent years. Overall, I still don't hate the way show ended, I just wish it got a much more proper sendoff.
Ironically, the original Ghostbusters cartoon ran into the exact same issue concern how they could handle ghosts and death. In season one, they were allowed to say ghost more freely and one episode particularly touched on a man who died but wanted to ensure his family he was alright and he missed and loved them. So they did touch on death but in a way kids would be able to handle it and not be too upset (as in sad, not scared) by it.
When the notorious Q5 seasons rolled, they were told that the ghosts could no longer be the spirits of people who were once living but just monsters, similar to what Danny Phantom went through, even though the concept of a ghost and monsters ARE different but with monsters, they could tap dance what they assumed would be a 'discussion' about death.
Funny, Avatar actually got to show/imply the deaths of MANY characters, including the genocide of an entire nation so...comme si, comme sa I guess.
Edit 2: A lot of the concepts you mentioned from the graphic novel actually sound kinda cool. Tucker blowing it is actually funny and him being the Mayor really was a stupid choice anyway. He firs better being IN the team directly rather than being in some weird ass power role.
The bullies actually getting roles that slowly take them away from the bully path is something I like and SO Spider-Man, considering Flash joins the military and becomes Agent Venom later on so the idea of the bullies finding purpose other than to make Danny miserable means they can have their own character that aren't just props FOR Danny considering this worked wonderfully for Valerie who actually became a real character once she STOPPED being a stereotypical bully and had her own issues to deal with.
Maybe I'll check it out and I'm someone who was never a big Danny Phantom fan, AT ALL.
The major definition of Danny Phantom:
A really good but really *flawed* show.
just like any other show in the world buddy :3
@@rapripsnot true at all
@@raprips Well yes,it's true.But compared to several"good+flawed"shows we have out there(even classic fairly oddparents)seems like this show has some pretty massive flaws that even interfere with the things this show tries to do right.
@@Pepe_Le_Pew-qv4pn yeah, i guess you’re right
Same how I feel about samurai jack's final season
Now Mark needs to talk about Invader Zim
1:06:38
Mark danielle was inspired by x 23, wolverine's clone and also by ben reilly spiderman's clone
That episode was inspired by the infamous clone saga, but good this time
You made a good point about people discrediting Butch Hartman. I agree that bad actors should be called out when they get more credit than those who did have a higher amount of work on the project. That being said, it's not always fair to have to attitude for those who have a disliking towards a creator, as it can come off as straw manning hate. It's no longer criticism, it's blind hate at that point. It also doesn't help the person you're trying to credit to like Stephen Silver. That's not really a compliment or recognizing their work, that's like using them for an insult. It's like if you really hate a person so you talk about them behind their back, and then you compliment someone with similar talents to them saying, "oh your so much better than that guy." It's not complimentary, it's just an excuse to use someone else to make the first person look worse. For that, I'm willing to give Butch the credit he deserves for his part of the work.
Finally... some danny phantom youtube content..... I was starving.....
"what was the original reason if we assume Danny cheating was just Evil Danny?"
Ahhh the bootstrap paradox, it's a loop, you'll keep back tracking to the same answer never getting any closer to the "start" as far as the timeline is concerned, this was always the sequence of events. Evil Danny was always supposed to be here as a self fulfilling fixed point.
Which begs the question, who actually wrote Beethoven's Fifth?
Oh that's simple. It was Beethoven the Forth.
So there's this man. He has a time machine. Up and down history he goes, zip zip zip zip zip, getting into scrapes.
Danny Phantom legit had the potential for such an expansive universe of other types of supernatural creatures, heroes, and villains; it's a shame it never reached that full potential.
In loving memory of Martin Mull (the voice of Vlad) 1943-2024
I think part of the reason Butch suddenly claimed the Ghosts in the show are monsters and not dead people is because of his religious beliefs, being a born again Christian means he can’t really believe in ghosts.
More like he embraced religion to further become a grifter. No different to Eric Cartman doing the same thing with his religious albums.
If that’s true, then that’s based 👌
Despite its failure Danny phantom will always be my favourite out of butch’s 4 cartoons on Nickelodeon
I wouldn't even call DP a Failure.
@@mechajay3358honestly, makes me wonder what the show could've been had Nick taken better care of it
@@xavierjuno4572 Butch created a whole line of merchandise to promote the show that he pitched to the network. But unfortunately, his products were a total bomb and failed to sell. So there'd be major consequences. After the executives found out about the merchandise flops. Nickelodeon became very angry at Butch. They said that his merchandise flops and overspending on celebrity guests had deemed Danny Phantom a failure. And there was only one logical thing to do, CANCEL Danny Phantom completely
@@xavierjuno4572 It definitely would’ve gone down the same road as Ben 10, with multiple sequel shows and all that
…Or maybe it would’ve just got like 12 seasons, since Nick doesn’t really do sequels and instead prefers continuing the same show like with FOP and SpongeBob.
Hit the nail on the head with that "Reality Trip" segment. Could've been really cool if Danny's parents were in on the superhero stuff for season 3, but alas. Great video that helped me go down memory lane.
Ultimate Enemy was the first time I can remember being excited for a TV show.
Unfortunately, Butch overstepped his creative boundaries on the show
Danny Phantom is one of my favorite animated series out there, it’s like if Spider-Man/The Ben 10 Franchise (Teenager ages) mix with Ghost Busters/Luigi’s Mansion in one show.
luigi's mansion except luigi doesn't suck up ghost with a vacuum but beats the daylight out of them with the vacuum
@@woketacha6112funnily enough, that's what he does in mansion 3
Danny Phantom is always memorable, the villains were unique and fun to watch
0:34:27 I think that’s actually Australia. If I remember correctly those white painted patterns on the people are those of the Aboriginal Australians.
1:41:40 I used to enjoy Phantom Planet, and thought it was a solid finale to the series, but over time I've come to see people's negative reception to it. This special has some glaring flaws, plot contrivances and out of characters moments.
Butch is American Rowling when it comes to trying to retcon details that don't make sense and have lore that doesn't match your change.
I'm legit curious what Butch thinks about Ember Ghost Squad and Randy in general
That would be too controversial for the squeaky clean image Butch still thinks he has
I can't believe Butch intentionally caused that
Well he did do some Randy fan art at one point.
@@MaxiemumKarnagewhat?
The people who made the theme song doesn’t get enough credit. Everybody knows the song but who sung it?
Guy Moon sings the vocals while Wild’N Out’s DJ D-Wrek does the rap parts. A unlikely match found in heaven.
My first exposure to Danny Phantom was actually some random kid singing the theme song at the school talent show.😂
Did the kid start with "yo" or "young"?
@@BBHood217 I think it was yo
I felt second hand embarrassment just reading that
I am glad to hear you enjoyed Danny Phantom. A lot of the weaknesses of the show you pointed out are because of what I can best answer that as a "product of the times". (2000s shows were formulaic in their storytelling; you've seen one episode, you've seen them all; I don't miss that part too much) I think this video is a great introduction to Danny Phantom, but I also think making a series about each part will highlight your stance better. I do agree that Sam is a positive Goth character, since she has personality traits other than being Goth. In my opinion, Nick put all their money into SpongeBob, and now it has became a shell of its former self.
At 34:27 I don't think those people were meant to be African. I am 99% sure they are Aboriginal, like native to Australia?
Bro just dropped a 2 hour video out of nowhere
you say that like he doesn’t drop 5+ hour videos multiple times a year 💀
If u like this you should check out quinton rwviews
You can drop inside of me anytime 😩
bro dropped a 12!!!! hour Simpsons video too
He mentioned that it would've come out yesterday but TH-cam sniped it
More Danny Phantom content let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
theinktank?! YOURE HERE!
Makes sense your heroes even though your a ben 10 channel
A wild Kuro has appeared.
the dread i felt when you played the Bunsen Is A Beast intro was so intense
I'm not sure if anyone else has already mentioned this or not, but the trope you mention at 1:13:51 with "The Guys in White" is a reference to the movie Men in Black! It's a well-loved film from the late 90s. :)