Group B: When Rallying Got TOO FAST
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- The Audi Quattro, Lancia 037 and the Peugeot 205 T16 - some of the most iconic names in rallying. Cars that pushed the limits of what was possible in a way that we haven’t seen since. It was called Group B and is still held as the Golden Era of Rallying.
Group B was a class where manufacturers were allowed to go all out, with almost unlimited power, crazy aerodynamics and new exotic materials. It brought about new technologies like 4WD, Semi-Automatic Gearboxes and clever turbocharging systems.
However, it was only for the bravest of drivers. The hugely powerful cars needed a lot of manhandling to thread them through the tight-twisty stages, away from huge drops and dodging a sea of spectators.
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Rallying went wild in the 80s. The FIA wanted to attract more manufacturers and so created a class that would give the designers pretty much free reign, no power limits, no regulations on boost, and whatever exotic materials you liked.
Rally cars over the years have been largely based on road cars, with rules tightening and loosening on how close the relationship has to be, between the stock car, and the ones that actually race the stage.
For example, in the Group A class - the manufacturers have to produce 5000 road-going versions of the car before it is allowed to compete. In Group B, to lower costs and interest manufacturers, they ruled that only 200 needed to be produced. Group B also allowed almost endless modifications to be made - meaning the race cars were nothing like the road cars at all.
This approach really worked, attracting many manufacturers to Group B - names like Lancia, Porsche, Peugeot, Audi, Toyota, Ford - as well as so many more.
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#Rallying #GroupB #Motorsport
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obviously yes
Yep, drivers are fearless specially the spectators and photographers taking photos on the incoming car that running more over 124mph.
80's rally is amazing.
@@TherealLorinser i believe rally is the only motor sport discipline where you also appreciate the spectators.
@@daziriftz indeed
We need a group B fans video... every great highlight clip from group B has a mass of fans almost getting hit 😂
Group B: Fastest and most dangerous rally cars in history
Spectators: *stands in the way*
800 likes and no replies? well here I am
JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL. *Gives himself onto gods high octane judgement*
Hey, look at the bright side. If you get hit fast and hard enough, death is instant and painless.
@Knuckles McGirk I know their was an incident we’re 31 people were injured and 3 were killed (all spectators) and I think it was no one fault just a malfunction in the car
Even in football where the worst thing that can happen is a ball in your face* (which isn't very painfull, speaking from experience) audiences are further away from the game.
* With modern safety standards. There were quite a few disasters in the past
Kid: I'm going outside to play Dad
Dad: Don't play in the road and look both ways before crossing the street.
Dad goes to see car races: Let me just stand in the middle of the road.
Honestly though, yes
That is not how the 80s were.
Kid: "" (Goes out to play anywhere he likes)
Dad "" (Thinks, if he dies, he dies)
Kid: *surprised pikachu face*
@@Lobos222 lol
Terrifying to look back, but in the time it was so amazing, cars could fly, they could swerve and dance on gravel and ice, the fear of death and witnessing it walking hand in hand with the growing media demand of SPECTACLE(sorry about the caps) It was amazing, but the tragedies were too many.
Engineer: What do you want, turbocharger or supercharger?
Lancia: Yes. And big wings.
Lancia a year later: «Supercharger isn't enough.»
Engineer: «Do you want a sequential twin turbocharged with a double crossed flow and ground effect?»
Lancia: «YESSSS!»
RBR: @Dave did you say bendy wings? Mic check, Dave did you say Bendy wings? :) Forgot the smiley face
Engineer: what do you wan-
Lancia: yes
And fuel tank below our seats
Engineer: What do you want, turbocharger or supercharger?
Lampredi: I say supercharged !
Driver61: "The car (205) looks much more balanced & 'easier' to drive!"
Me: *laughing nervously & remembering all the crashes I had with it in Dirty Rally 2*
drove it in WRC 10 after watching this and flailed my way off a cliff lol
Dirt 3 go brrrrr directly into a tree
Now that the Mid Rear Covet had been added to BeamNG, I can say, damn that thing scary.
Not AWD, but still, scary
Yeah, the Peugeot 205 is pretty much a rocket with a steering wheel. Over 500bhp at around 900kg, that's on par with most F1 cars. Except you run with it on crappy roads instead of a maintained circuit.
literally every clip in this video is insane.
Every clip in this is from the Documentary "Evolution of Rallying - 50 years sideways" A Documentary came some 10+yrs ago.
and so many of them are in Portugal!! I live near to Sintra were this rallys took place back in the days and what an unbeliveble feeling that is to drive such historic roads althought with better asphalt that kill a little bit the mystic
Well that's group b in a nutshell
1:07 INSANEEEEE!!
As was the eighties. The decade of pioneering in engineering and regulations.
Ok so...
- move spectators to safe places
- improve safety
Can we have Group B again?
God, yes please.
...aero would be the same, diffs, suspension and frame would be the same as they are now, the safety measure would be the same and in 2022 the cars can use 515hp at some points, but will you be happy? Nope.
there was barely any safety for the drivers yknow
Sounds good to me, mandate that cars have a at least a certain weight of safety equipment (if you just raise the weight limits they might just put bigger or more engines in) then rope off the sides and have the police/private security out there to arrest trespassers. I assume these public roads were closed to traffic during the races, it should be easy enough to ban pedestrian traffic as well. Sad that you have to tell adults to not play in the road in the middle of a motorsports event but there you go.
I would love to see what they could come up with using today's technology. 2 engines? Would hybrids or straight electrics do well with all the chances for regenerative braking? How about a hybrid with 2 ICEs ? Only one way to find out, clear the roads and let them have at it!
@@1978garfield The next WRC cars are hybrids and there are electric ones too. Also those electric cars arent build for a set of regulations yet and just like in Group B they ll have to reduce power to get to the end of a rally.
It looks like it was more dangerous to be a spectator than a driver
Yeah but that was their own fault anyways
They aren't spectators, it's a meatwall to protect the cars from crashes.
@@KapiteinKrentebol fuckin LOL'D
I'm pretty sure it was
I said same thing to my dad (huge rally fan) and he said it only looked like that because not many spectators died 😅. And I think that's why people loved group B because it was part of the show. And now when you want to watch wrc live you need to be safe otherwise they will delete rally from the calendar like they did for poland (it was speed too) but I think everyone wanted to see new cars go to their limits.
Group B is the ultimate "security is our least concern"
safety*
safety third
Aka „consenting Adults having fun“
Honestly, that's the only way I expected such a class to end
Everybody dead is a good finale, the world is always better with fewer humans.
@@thokim84 calm down thockim
B for bonafide crazy
@@thokim84 fellow misanthrope
@@thokim84 ha just wait til you learn about the impending 12,000 year disaster cycle.
Rally changed, cars changed, drivers changed, rules changed. But the only thing that didnt change are the spectators' iq
lmao
your name kinda pops through the suggested videos for me, idk bro, maybe get that checked out, can't see that being healthy! Remember ! Stay hydrated!
Can’t fix stupid
@@pookie-dev lmao
@@pookie-dev thanks for looking out, i will get that checked out
"You have the situationnal awareness of a rally race spectator."
Some pretty harsh words to be uttered only to those who truly deserved it.
This one deserves more likes
I'm stealing this.
I was lucky enough to watch, hear, and smell (and be covered in the dust of) these beasts at the Acropolis rally in Greece when I was little. I was also very lucky to have a sensible dad who thought that it would be stupid to stand right next to the road, and he chose a higher viewing point, 20m away from the road.
go dad!
How the fuck you got covered in dust 20m away from the road
@@joaopaulogalloclaudino9671 If you have ever been to the Acropolis stages you would not say something stupid like that.
I can never get enough of watching Group B footage. As a young kid I couldn't understand why the audience was standing SO close to the road - now as a somewhat older guy I still can't :)
It's the rush you get from being 3 inches from death as lighting and thunder on four wheels comes roaring past you
@@michaelkeha well they're stupid
there was a little game where you had to get the closest possible to the cars passing and sometimes touch them so you could brag about it with your friends? It wasnt rare that when finishing a race that you could find pieces of fingers on cars. Some Lancia Delta S4 had litteral carbon fiber sharp disks on wheels so you usually found fingers there :)
Well you can't high five the driver if you"re too far away; jeez
@@michaelkeha 3 inches from death? Go to war then mate
Suicidal Spectators and overpowered cars. Nothing could go wrong. :)
Nothing wrong with op cars. Just put some safety equipment and you're good. However can't say the same for the spectators. Bunch of fucking morons
@Eddie Hitler *cough cough* lancia
Better roll cages not made from Aluminium or really thin steel and if the lancia didn't have fuel tanks under the seats Henri would still be alive 😔
@Eddie Hitler Henri's death can't be blamed on suicidal spectators, though.
Safety first!!! Go wear your mask
This racing makes Nascar look like go kart racing at the local mini golf center.
Yes
Mmm hmmm, now you know why no one outside of America cares about Nascar
Nascar, the land of endless caution laps and only racing in perfect conditions. Unwatchable for the past 50 years.
Nascar has always been boring af
Absolutely agree. I call it "Crashcar." Turning left around an oval is stupid. Circuit tracks, time attack, hill climb, rallying, etc is where it's at skill wise, no doubt
"golden era" is an understatement, it was the pinnacle of racing ☝🏻
True Facts💯% ❤80's Group B Rally Racing☝💯%
I’m almost convinced that they trained the spectators to add to the craziness of rally races
nowadays you also can train stupidity by tiktok challenges
@@phillgizmo8934 all generations have stupid people
For real! No one could see anything if the road was covered and what were people doing chilling in the road anyway
@@dr.science_0177 That's true.. My dad was complaining about stupid tiktok challenges.
I questioned why when he was in scouts, as an initiation, the new person would run around a camp fire. With the other throwing bags of flour over them... They did this until the aerosol-ised flour caught fire, scorching about 4 kids.. Nightmare!!
*To be fair though, that's not stupidity. That's just lack of awareness about the dangers of fine particulates near a fire.
@@rorrt that's a combination of stupidity and unawareness
-remove safety
everybody: guess ill die in fashion
sudo rm -sfty
"remove safety": at this time, there weren't mandatory aka no safety. Time changed.
Drive fast die young leave a good looking corpse.
@@dukecraig2402 That last bit is the challenging part.
@@Megalomaniakaal
That's a fact.
I must be getting old, I don't get the willingness of the spectators to stand so close to death to watch rally racing.
Spectating rally is totally safe as long as you don't act stupid and pick a safe spot (aka not outside of a corner).
there werent any social media shit to waste time on
i would do the same to see these beasts
@@IamAlterEggo I was thinking mostly of those sections where it looks like they were lined up to watch cyclists, not rally cars. Doesn't seem like that happens anymore & people stay more clear of the danger zones.
I'm amazed it's still aloud at cycling (eg.tour de France, little bit less dangerous but very annoying for the cyclist I presume)...
Because even being 10 yards out doesn't convey the sense of awe seeing a semi with a massive wing on the back clawing up Pikes Peak sideways, spitting gravel as it goes.
If a wreck is going to happen, distance or barricades will not save you.
Also the stages were much longer and diverse than today where they keep doing the same roads again and again. Back then it was impossible to memorize every turn and the mile count for a single three-day rally was insane.
This year world rallies seems to had around 300 km on average, how do you remember every turn in 300km?
most stages were around 10-30 km which is pretty much the same as it is now there were just more stages back then
Lol, it's impossible nowadays too.
Exactly Facts💯% ❤80's Group B Rally ☝💯%
4:20 lmao the drivers sure weren't expecting any cows on the road.
At least the cows move along a predictable path! The spectators were crazy !
You don't watch much Rallying then, do you? That's still normal today!
That maneuver was lit
@@megajuanph11 top notch reflex, mad respect for the driver.
@@LeodiAstoriaXIII Normal for ralley drivers. Search out on-board footage... these guys are just awesome. :)
10:01 actually, the FIA cut off group B only HOURS after that crash, not the next year.
Yes, but i think it was that the decision only took effect after the current season. However, since all the teams pulled out, it ended that year
@@youegg9873 Hm, I guess that makes sense. All I know is that the FIA announced that group B and S would be substituted with group A only hours after toivenen's crash.
@@youegg9873 Pulled out from the rally, but only Ford and Audi pulled out from the championship.
He we also can add to this point, that the team forced toivenen to drive even he was sick as hell. Popping everything to keep him up.
Ending up going straight to the pitt.
Saying that the wreck was barelyg recognizable as a car is one thing, but to me it looked like the only thing left was the roll cage.
if jeremy clarkson’s doing this video he’d just shout “why can’t they run over the stupid spectators”
Darwinism in action.
Especially with all the POWER & SPEED
@@AngryTurds I read this with Clarkson's voice in my head wtf 😅
@@sheeeple2069 Same. Made me laugh.
@@sheeeple2069 Easy to do because he would say that.
That Audi Quattro to Lancia 037 transition at 0:09 is flawless
are you alive
Regulators : "you have to produce 200 road cars to register the race car"
Manufacturer : ok, we did 200, come and check !
Regulators inspectors comes the morning, check 100 cars from the 1st parking lot... Manufacturer tell them the 2nd parking lot is kinda far away, so let's have some lunch...
During the lunch, manufacturer workers speed-transfert the morning's 100 cars to the 2nd parking lot.
Then Inspectors get to the 2nd parking and count the 100 cars....
Ok you made 200 of them.
Classic. (true story)
Lancia, wasnt it ?
@@PricEShotHD yea, Vilebrequin (YT channel) anecdote about group B xD
@LEIF CAREY-ODDEN second one yes, first one no. That was just a joke from Jeremy Clarkson about the flimsy general structural integrity
After Group B, Lancia wasn't done. The Alfa Romeo 155 DTM was actually a Lancia Group B rebuilt for the purpose of saving Alfa Corse.
Audi did similar, took their modified Quattro to the Trans Am Series and IMSA, and continued in DTM with the V8 in it (I prefer the 5-thumper for the sound).
Dirt Rallys: The motorsport where the spectator is more insane than the driver
Spectators: These drivers are crazy
Drivers: get the fuck out of the way!
The manufacturers: "How much horsepower do you want?"
The drivers: "Yes."
it was more the other way around. the manufacturers turned everything up to 11 and told the drivers to deal with it
@@texannationalist5887 bit like Motogp. Here's a bike.....ride it
The drivers: "How safe is it?"
The manufacturers: "What was that about the horsepower?"
Time to retire this comment nobody knows how to use it anymore.
@@JD_tcb How many outdated memes will people use in the future?
YT-comment section: yes
4:25 all i can hear in my head is Clarkson saying "Some Cows!"
when people ask about what it was like to live in the 80's and 90's without smartphones and cameras on every street corner - show them group B
Show them group C while you're at it.
@john jones then show them Senna dominating the track in the rain
People were so bored they wanted to jump in front of a racing car
The thing is, the cameras weren't on the street corners, they were in the middle of the track.
@@candle_eatist it's a bit rude to just flat out show porn to people like that. Cos Senna in the rain just gets everyone going really, it's extremely sexy
That Martini Lancia 037 is one of the best looking cars ever
Hard to compere when there is engineering beauty: the original Ford GT40
Personally I prefer the Manta, but aside from the front end, the 037 does look fantastic
@@povilaszvirblis8593 I know it lost to the fords, but the Ferrari 330 P4 gorgeous, even better looking than the fords.
No discredit to the Ford though, it looks amazing without any doubt.
That was a nice car, but I'm much more of a Stratos fan, the most beautiful rally car!
Have you seen ( not your mother standing in the shadow )
Ever ànother Lancia the Stratos
Insane spectators! Can you imagine how stressful that must have been for the drivers 😫
Every single one of those idiots deserved to get run over. "Hey, the race is already hard as fuck, let's make it even harder for the drivers by getting in the way lolol!"
One of the 205-T16 drivers found after a stage, a finger in the grille on the front of the car!🤯
@@nikbear A juicy souvenir!
@@nikbear damn
I don't remember which driver said "I see the spectators as trees other whise I wouldn't be able to drive without anxiety"....
This video about a specific type of rally cars gave me more knowledge about cars that I had in my entire life... xD seriously, you explained weight distribution, wheel and engine layout, differences between turbo and supercharged engines, AND rally regulations and safety extremely clear and all in passing while telling the story.
now remember, widght distribution shifts both side to side and front to back depending on inputs, brakes shifts to the front, throtle shifts it to the back and turning shifts it to the outside of the corner
My favorite era of racing together with early 2000's v10 F1 cars. Just pure rawness.
Well isn't that unusual
Yess
And group C
Early 2000' f1 were not raw. They even had TC.
@@ale9963 so you dont consider a screaming v10 at 19.000rpm raw ? 🤣
Man, 80s were a crazy time, 1000hp turbo f1 cars and group b rally cars
Also should mention in the late 80s Group C enduro cars were pretty crazy too
@@jams6352 forgot about those
Late 80s into early 90s When 4 wheel motorsport, on and off-road was at its peak. Since then driver aids, electronics and politics managed to turn it into a snooze fest.
and now we have 1000hp trubo F1 cars and rally cars that are faster
@@fuzzy1dk but with a lot of assist so no more losing grip or drifting on corners
4:20 "It had a very short wheelbase, which generally WWHHHOOAAAAHHH HOLY COWSSSS!!!!"
Blows my mind the proximity of the spectators. Also insane speed is what group b is! Love
I remember walter röhrl saying in an interview that he retired because of the spectators
They're not spectators, they're obstacles. It's like jumping into a lions den and getting in their way expecting not to be killed.
actually the 037 had over 320HP
@@RoverWaters what
@@joshuakuehn 2:07
@@RoverWaters you replied to the wrong person. Your comment has nothing to do with the one you replied to. Do you understand now?
Formula One in the forest.
Literally
imagine
driving on nordslife the suspensions would get completely destroyed and the cars would crash horifficly if the lost control due to the surface and the outer walls would get completely destroyed i donjt thing that in wet conditions the track would even be driveable
You arent wrong there
Nah that's canam in the forest
Pretty much. I think Relault used its F1 turbo in their rally car. I know someone did, saw it in a documentary. Can you imagine! lol
Didn't expect so many spectaters to have a deathwish. This is insane
They used to find severed fingers in the back seats due to fans sticking their arms out, resulting in a bunch of therapists at the end of the race ready for the drivers.
@@TheAccess1234 oh god 😫
The death wish was mostly just in Portugal. It was sort of a modern day bull fighting. Try touch the car. Majority of the rallies were far "safer", although the safety protocols were still quite non-existent and sometimes people did die or get hurt even in those safer ones, as the car can still go 100s of meters into the woods, when spinning out of control at 200km/h speeds.
Fantastic video, thank you.
I can only imagine how hard driving a Quattro actually was. It's like wrestling a bear on Dirt Rally 2.0
Yeah. Compared to driving the 22b or the lancer evo, the quattro likes to throw itself off the track. I like using the 22b better because it feels better, in the sense that it likes to stay on track. If you throttle too much in a corner even by a bit, you'll crash. It's a shame, because holy crap, the quattro has the best goddamn engine sounds in the game.
Once you know how to drive Quattro it's crazy what it can do. It is really fucking hard to learn though
@@quattno1506 Yeah, bro. It has an extreme amount of torque. With the 22b I always kinda floor it, but with the quattro, you have to take it easy on the gas, or you'll completely blow off a corner. I mean, it's to be expected though, because it has 550 BHP, ffs. Car is OP.
I fear the Quattro but I love it as well
"It's like wrestling a bear on Dirt Rally 2.0"
Maybe it was like competing in UFC 1 or 2.
Incoming Group B Rally car.
Mind of 80's rally spectator - "MUST FORM HUMAN SAFETY BARRIER!"
There is this video about myths of group b and their is this one story where a driver found a finger in his engine and years later found the guy who lost his finger and he was just happy he got to touch the car 😂
wasn't that different 10 years later, th-cam.com/video/Ixn5H_nvNmM/w-d-xo.html
Ah the good old days when you could make choices on how you wanted to die.
@@filthyfrankblack4067 😞
Portugal 1986, Lagoa Azul special stage near Sintra.The crowd gathered on the limits of the rugged tarmac to see the latest skilled drivers with their group B monster rally cars. I was 16 years old at the time and went to see the same spectacle as everybody else. We knew when the first contender was approaching such was tremendous roaring of those cars, specially the inline 5 of the Audi Quattro S1, what a monster! If I’m not wrong it was Timo Salonnen with his Peugeot 205 T16 the first to run. It’s impossible to put into words the gigantic impression of power delivered by the passing of those cars. The next few drivers passed and then...silence. Me and some friends waited anxiously a few 300 meters ahead the Joaquim Santos accident location that took the lives of 3 spectators and injured 30 more. A few minutes later the news arrived. We knew it was a matter of time for a tragedy like that to happen. Those were really crazy times...and spectators! But what an era!! I’ll never forget it! Thanks for this great video , even if no video can reproduce the thrill of seeing the action on location.
The best documentary on TH-cam about this is called Too Fast To Race.
Just watched again for the 6 tune.
Thanks for the reminder. 👍🏻
Every time i watch extended footage of the Group B, i get tears in my eyes, overly excited. I LOVED the Group B. These rally drivers were the very best of the very best.
As AUDI called it, their Quattro AWD had an "Unfair (but legal) advantage" in the first two years after introduction.
and still they lost on the first year to the Lancia 037!!!
@@micheaven Did you also see what tactics they were forced to use for that?
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 of course it's a little bit exaggerated to make it amazing but still ,at the end Lancia won and nobody can't deny was a great achieve considering Lancia was a 2wd!!
@@micheaven And the second year to the Opel Ascona.
Audi only won both championships after several years of being embarrassed by 2WD cars finally in 1984. And then IMMEDIATELY when proper manufacturers brought in 4WD cars they beat Audi from the very first rally they entered.
Audi NEVER won a race against 4WD competitors except one, San Remo in 1985 under suspicious circumstances (suspicion of cheating: they clearly had decided they must win that one race at least so save face, they came in 3 weeks before the race and tested every single corner of the rally, separately adjusting the car for every single stage, just constant testing for 3 weeks on the stages, and their car was very iffy as suddenly the competitors noticed the car was completely different to all previous rallies with it being faster even on tarmac stages, and even more suspicious is how Audi even scrapped the car that entered in that rally after the race!).
So it took Audi more than 4 years of developing that car and losing to 2WD cars to finally get one double championship win. Then when they had 4WD competition they NEVER won again, except that one suspicious rally.
Cuando , Lancia y Peugeot sacaron los misiles ,Audi se convirtió en chatarra
Other fun facts about group B cars:
They were allowed to use aluminum roll cages, because weight reduction.
Crews would often find hair and fingers in the cars after races from spectators trying to touch the cars.
The later group B cars were making upwards of 600+hp. Rumors even say that Audi was developing the Quattro to make around 1000hp before group B was shut down
I different car/class but I remember going to Limerock in CT and seeing a Quatro wheelie on a uphill stretch.
1 time they find a fingertip in Peugeot, aluminium cage is bs...
@@stigohrstrand8759 false. Aluminum roll cages were very common until they were outlawed in 86. And multiple drivers and crews had reported finding fingers on the cars
no one is talking about the transition in 0:08 ? That's insanely smooth
Thanks man, so glad you noticed! - Callum
Rally Spectators. I don't have to say anything else.
A referendum held amongst rally spectators showed that only 2% would vote for trump, thus, still not the dumbest crowd out there.
@@alltheusernameswastaken8936 Why do people like you have to interject your politics into EVERYTHING?
@@alltheusernameswastaken8936 I have been looking for who the hell asked for 16 hours, can you tell me where he is.
@@xilpes6254 that was a brainfart, nevermind
@@alltheusernameswastaken8936 i hate trump but don't get political.
3 dead spectators, 30 injured: "Not great, but not terrible."
2 dead racers: "SHUT IT DOWN!!!"
The difference is no one told these people to get this close, but the drivers were on paid contracts and had to drive these horribly shoddy machines or loose their job.
Spectators died because they were dumb. Drivers died bc the manufacturers were dumb. That's a big difference.
@@edim108 I agree with everything you said. My comment was all for levity. I ment no disrespect to anyone who was injured or killed, idiots or not.
darwin doesn'T care
Removing those spectator tards from the world was in everyone's interest and a great service to humanity.
You must be delusional, take him to the infirmary
Thats saddening and unfortunate to hear about all the deaths and injuries caused by group B. However, I do like the concepts and innovations that came out of it. And that Lancia is one of my all time favorite cars.
Not To-Do list:
1. Dodge the fu*king Sea of Spectators.
2. Po Po Dodge the fu*king Sea of Spectators.
3. And the cows! 4:21
They’re extremely lucky that mustangs can’t rally
"Not To-Do list:
1. Dodge the fu*king Sea of Spectators."
So... don't dodge the fu*king Sea of Spectators?
@@101jir nope
I remember watching this in the 80s with my dad. Seriously exciting stuff but as with any sport that does not set limits, eventually it gets completely nuts and for the drivers if you dont just close your eyes and go for it, you will never win. Bit like the Isle of Man TT every year. No limits and deaths every year. My favorite was the Audi and that awesome sounding turbo dump valve. Thanks for the video.
As a rally lover, you did a really good job covering this era. For anyone interested there are tons of videos on youtube of these beasts. Marvdogger 2 is your best channel for that. Well done video.
hey Cole where would I find info on the 205 chassis and drive train lay out?
thanks
@@millerchassis6119 not too sure? Google i would try, if not there are numerous facebooks groups, specifically group B today or any group B fan based facebook group and ask on there. You’re talking about the actual diagrams or..?
Mr. M has got a handful of videos that would make your blood boil with passion
insane. thanks for this recap. got interested in rally as a kid in the 90s and still love to watch and play rally games since then.
Lancia vs Audi: the greatest rivalry of all time
Blablablabla 205T16
also Ford vs Ferrari.
@@unripetomato4312 A huge world wide corporation with a practically unlimited budget defeats a small Italian company.
It *was* an exciting time!
@@sludge4125 David and goliath.
@@unripetomato4312 True. Goliath won. It was an exciting time.
When Henri and Sergio crashed, their lead made it so no one knew they crashed. The following racing team only stopped after seeing the flames and could still hear the screams. The technology that was created in light of their deaths have saved countless racers going forward.
Also, because that stage was on paved road, not loose surface, the skid plate protecting the gas tank was removed to make the car even lighter,,, and what ultimately set it on fire 🔥
Bullshit, they was killed instanly.... Get your things straight for fs.
@@stigohrstrand8759 source?
@@fakename287 getting down a cliff going so fast the car goes on fire,i dont think we need a source
Maybe he meant the spectators' screams?
I remember being in the passenger seat of a rallye kitted 205 for a test drive. Holy shit it was such a rocket.
It was extremely dangerous
Isle of Mann TT: hold my beer.
THE ONLY CRAZY SPORT THAT STILL ALIVE TODAY EVEN GROUP B HAD BETTER CHANCE OF SURVIVAL THAN ISLE MAN TT RIDER. BASICALY UR ARE 50 PERCENT IF YOU JOIN ISLE MAN TT YOU CRASH AND GOODBYE
Isle Of Man
At Isle of Mann the people are spread out enough and the bike is light enough that you can only reasonably expect to kill like 3 or so people per serious crash. /s
I always wished someone would start a rally league with two rules,:
1. If you can drive it you can race it
2. The league isn’t responsible for your safety.
Motorstorm
@@Anthonybrother lmao
There is pikes peak
@@bluicity4263 i mean you aren't wrong technically there is no "performance" cap to a pikes peak car.
Unfortunately, people nowadays are basically pussies, focusing safety over fun
Very emotional video for me, when I was young I had the poster of the Lancia "zero trentasette" on my room. Thanks for this video and greetings from Italy!
Piacere!
4:32 ... that jump.
It's incredible how we went from the 80s "we don't give a fuck about anything, let's get a missile on wheels run between people" to the 2020 "we slightly changed colour to this thing because one guy in Papua New Guinea felt offended"
It is unbelievable! It makes me wonder about boomers. When they were young, they enjoyed soooo much freedom. Once they grew up, they became helicopter parents and the dictators that destroyed freedom. WTF!
It's not even "one guy in Papua New Guinea felt offended", it's "one white guy in New York felt offended on behalf of Papua New Guinea (even though Papua doesn't give a flying fuck)".
@@markflierl1624 boomers enjoyed freedom when it meant they got to be indulgent and degenerate, they never loved freedom as a concept, only for themselves
@@markflierl1624 Blaming Boomers for cancel culture😂
@@mytwosense9135 Blaming Boomers for the police state.
Thanks for this, man. Saw Rally NZ once - we were sitting on a hillside above a sweeping right, short straight, tight right around a tight stand of mature pines; Michele Mouton in front closely followed by camera-copter (below the treetops) - awesome! And not a muppet in sight.
3:39 RIP that poor man's expensive camera.
This is what I'd call a cool capsule history of a racing format! SO much info, concisely put forth.
"The drivers used an old trick to keep the turbo spooled up, they left foot braked whilst staying on the throttle. This kept the spool running".
Me: "Eureka!"
*Hops onto Dirt Rally 2*
just type: Walter Röhrl in TH-cam, the answer is there
Or just pushing the throttle repeatedly
Heel and toe.
Imagine being good enough at dirt rally that you worry about time lmao im just trying to finish a stage
Here you can see me using the technique while doing a two-stage scandinavian flick into a hairpin in a Lancia Delta S4 during a world record stage run: th-cam.com/video/2loyobZSO0Y/w-d-xo.html
"new exotic materials" you mean the pvc pipe they used as roll cages? 😂😂😭
I love these historical stories with highlights of the technology adopted at the time.
I also love the racing technique and modern car stories as well.
Nothing can beat the combination of 500+ hp cars, crazy drivers and mad spectators
There was a story that drivers at the end of their stages could find fingers, hair etc, in their car parts, mirrors, wings etc
There's a video somewhere on youtube of one of the team members pulling a finger out of the car's side vent after the race
Whoa
Yikes.
The worst thing is that even today after all this drama there are still people touching cars that fly past them at more than 160kmh.
Natural selection, vroom vroom vs stupidity
The trust relationship between the crowd getting out the way, and the drivers is on another level!
That is not trust. That is just the driver driving the ideal line and saying "fuck it". Walther Röhrl once said:" You can't afford to think of them as people, because you wouldn't be able to concentrate on the track. You had to think of them as trees".
In the early 80’s the most popular racing car poster was “Airborne Audi”. It was cool 😎
But was it more popular than Lamborghini Countach or Tennis Girl ?
Finally for once the TH-cam algorithm recommended me something good, always liked those 1980's Group B rally cars and their paint jobs! Subscribed! :)
7:40 Sintra, Portugal. One of the most beautiful places in Europe.
That tragedy was in Portugal also...
Greatest era of racing for sure, the R5 Turbo has a special place in my heart 💙🤍❤
A couple of notes from group B:
-The cars were fast, but were passed in stage times by group A cars by the early 1990s. Whilst they were as fast as F1 cars on straights, the cornering speeds were quite slow compared to, for example, the beginning of the WRC era in 1997.
-The power became an issue with the primitive 4WD systems, tires not up for the task, suspension technology not being quite up for the power yet as well as the materials being used promoting lightness over rigidity. Nowadays modern WRC cars obligerate anything on gravel, and have done so for the past 20 years or so.
-Renault was actually the first to produce a mid-engined, RWD hatchback with the R5 Turbo. Peugeot used their knowledge and combined Audi's 4WD and the characteristics of the R5 Turbo and Maxi Turbo in their 205 T16.
-Another thing that made the group B dangerous, as pointed out by Toivonen in his last interview, is that the cars were too fast for the events they competed in. The events took longer than nowadays and were more like endurance events on public roads than the modern 2 and 1/2 or 3 days. RAC took almost a week to complete. Controlling something like a Delta S4, a 550bhp lightweight kevlar hatch with by modern standard ancient tires and suspension was a lot to process for the mind. Whilst the stage average speeds are way higher nowadays, the cars are easier and way more drivable than back then. Heck, they didn't have service parks back then and used trucks instead to do the service after, or sometimes during the stages. The sport has really changed in the past 40 years.
-Drivers really enjoyed these cars, mostly because they were such a challenge. Not a single driver had any bad memories of driving them. Most of them did not like group A and some, like Mouton and Roehl, even quit the sport afterwards.
-A fun story of the Quattro S1E1:s testing, when a unnamed test driver first started to drive it he noticed something flashing in the corner of his eye at 100mph. When looking at the door he saw the outlines and shadows of the trees showing through the door as it was so light and thin.
Marku Alen say that to get in and drive gr A car was almoust like drive his wife car to shop..
Everytime I see Group B I always remember the Queen of group B Michelle Mouton.
I feel that she is the best female racing driver all the time.
@@lordflufffluff And one of the best racing drivers.
@@lordflufffluff She actually is the best female* racing driver of all time. She was so close to becoming the best rally driver in group B at one point in the Audi, but unfortunately her father (?) passed away during the season and in her final race the Audi broke down. She would've won if it wasn't for that mechanical failure. Truly inspiring lady, considering that nowadays women in motorsports don't even stand a chance at racing with men.
Edit: female*
Her and Walter Röhrl really aren't given enough credit.
I love how people run for their lives when a car is coming
The instinct to survive prevails even among the stupid, it would seem.
@@Demonrifts that's part of why stupid never dies.
A few crazy ones still tried to touch the cars.
This was a great video man. These images are insane. Love the idea and spirit of it though. Sounds like very interesting times.
Lancia are hands down my favorite rally cars! The Delta Integrale is my favorite for sure! Group B was always the best era of rally racing imo.
Just got home from the ELE rally and still an old Lancia like these one drove there today.. and drove hard!!!
I think current rally is better. No people in the way, way faster and louder cars, extremly good footage of everything and driver savety is better then ever. What makes you prefer group B? Only thing they did better was the amount of fatal accidents
@@hedwignl8118 i was talking to op not to you i didnt mention you in my comment like you see above
@@stigohrstrand8759 yes it is
class b cars like if they have 4 tires, a steering wheel, and a rocket as engine, they are good to go
Just watching the spectators standing on the road gave me shivers. They were insane.
Golden era of not only racing..but pushing everything to the max of engineering capacities.
can feel my pulse quicken just watching these clips- can't even imagine how intense it would have been to experience in person!
Been there, as a teen. It was EXTREMELY intense, almost as waiting for an attack from enemy tanks. But we absolutely loved!
Jeez, I want just a piece of the confidence those spectators had in those drivers ability to dodge them.
Suggestion: Audi's entry into America's Trans-Am series.
It will be short, but funny 😁😂
Imsa too. Basically the same car just in 2 divisions
Entry? That was an full turboblown invasion!
@@jackarmstrong7285 yea kinda, same drivetrain, but the gto was a computer designed space frame chassis, while the IMSA gt was a sedan.
@@jackarmstrong7285 this was 2 differrent models, in trans-am started Audi 200 in imsa Audi 90
I remain convinced to this day that Group B Rally was simply a job placement program for the criminally insane.
And I want it back.
I was glad I saw group B rallying. The Audl was built on the road going car and always suffered with engine being to far forward which effected the handling, the Lancia and Peugeot were purpose built rally cars, very light weight materials, but designed on the road going cars, these last two cars virtually put a nail in Audi's coffin, but the Audi started the four wheel drive revolution and the sound of that five pot engine was brilliant, only when the Impreza came along were we treated to another brilliant sound track. My one memory of group B was watching the Lancia S4 going down one of the long straights in Dalby forest in the north Yorkshire forests on the RAC rally, the speed of that thing was mind bending. Hats off to all the group B drivers, big skills and big balls to drive those things flat out. They were dangerous. Yes, but the spectators in some places in Europe made it more dangerous especially for the driver.
The many spectators right on the track are totally crazy. Many also stand on the outside of curves. You really wonder if the audience was just plain stupid or potentially suicidal. It's a miracle that nothing more happened back then.
Every now and again I run across a absurdly interesting video. Well done.
I’m a massive fan of Group B rally and from all vids on TH-cam I’ve seen yours is up there with the best vids I’ve seen. The research you’ve put into it and the explanations you give are very clear and easy to understand. Thank you 😊
-Yo
_what?_
- I got front-row seats for the group B rally!
*_you wot m8?_*
Why tf are people standing in the middle of the street? Just so they could run off to the side to avoid get hit? I don’t understand...
Thrills I guess
@@florix7889 and stupidity..
It started with Photographers. To get that money shot of a car.
To get the funzies.
I've see photographers lying on the track behind crests hoping that the cars just get high enough to not hit them
I read somewhere that later studies showed that on certain courses Group B cars were already beyond the physical capabilities of the drivers. Namely, the human eye focuses on objects at different distances by changing its shape slightly. The last Group B cars were being driven through twisting courses so fast that it was physically impossible for the drivers' eyes to properly focus on the scenery coming up ahead.
I am not a rally fan, or a car person in general ... but this video was very informative and entertaining, holding my attention the entire time!
Your explanation of the driving dynamics of Peugeot 205 T16 car at 4:05, and the Peugeot's unusual drive train is very helpful. The mid-transverse engine, with the gearbox and the engine laterally opposed, puts the weight between the two axles and low in the car. The powerful, four wheel drive Audi was a brute force solution to going faster. The Peugeot solution is a finesse solution, with the drive train weight in just the right place.
I recall him saying exactly that.
Peugeot ,una leyenda a seguir
Well the Audi was first. It's always easier to improve upon something once someone else has done all the hard work.
Damn, my butt was clenching during the whole video seeing spectators so close to the road without any protection.
Hahaha that happens to me sometimes. Either that or I involuntarily curl my toes. 😅
Without protection ? I'm sure they were wearing condoms ffs.
This is part of why rally became popular, it was easy to get into and easy to watch. You didnt have to buy tickets and an SCCA Pro car could be an old RX3 or Saab 92 and be really competitive for very little money compared to track racing. In the 90's it was killed when they closed stages and required more expensive modifications for safety. There is footage somewhere of spectators (I think at the Safari in 86 or 87) literally flying in the air after being hit by a group B car. We were lucky to have them here in Washington State for a couple years. Nothing like seeing Team Audi or Lancia guys arrive via helicopter into a small logging town on a saturday morning.
0:57 Beautifully controlled 4-wheel drift around that corner.