What if Elrond Pushed Isildur into the Fires of Mount Doom? Theory

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2019
  • The One Ring and it’s survival by the hands of Isildur gave rise to Sauron and the War of the Ring in the Lord of the Rings, but what if Elrond had pushed Isildur into the fires of Mount Doom, bringing an end to the One Ring altogether? This theory endeavours to answer such a question! Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts about this theory in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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ความคิดเห็น • 2.2K

  • @tlotpwist3417
    @tlotpwist3417 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5316

    "I cannot destroy it for you, but i can destroy you!"
    *toss Isildur into lava*

    • @Hexendrucken
      @Hexendrucken 4 ปีที่แล้ว +82

      Lmaaaooo

    • @remynisce33
      @remynisce33 4 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      Lol hahahah

    • @DeathReviews
      @DeathReviews 4 ปีที่แล้ว +120

      M'eh. In the BOOKS, it never said that confrontation ever took place AT the Cracks of Doom in Orodruin. All the book has is what Elrond said at the Council of Elrond: "Isildur took it (the Ring), as should not have been. It should then have been cast into Orodruin's fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-Galad only Cirdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our council.... and therefore whether we would or no, he took it to treasure it."
      The scene with Elrond and Isildur at the Crack of Doom, with Elrond jabbing his finger towards the chasm, was just a fanciful concoction of Jackson, Inc.

    • @NicholasRodriguezN7
      @NicholasRodriguezN7 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      ROFL

    • @nickcarroll8565
      @nickcarroll8565 4 ปีที่แล้ว +172

      Death Reviews next you’re going to tell me Legolas didn’t use a shield like a snowboard down stairs.

  • @greatvishalrocks
    @greatvishalrocks 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4142

    1. Hit Isildur on back of his head.
    2. He falls unconscious.
    3. Push ring in Fires of Mount Doom.
    4. Wake Isildur up, tell him ring's power was too much for him to handle so he fell unconscious and the Ring fell.
    5. Pat him on the shoulder.
    6. Party!!

    • @darthsauron8052
      @darthsauron8052 4 ปีที่แล้ว +180

      Brilliant.

    • @rockyp3917
      @rockyp3917 4 ปีที่แล้ว +46

      Lol 😂

    • @daletorrisi4038
      @daletorrisi4038 4 ปีที่แล้ว +191

      thousands of years of peace

    • @warwickthekingmaker7281
      @warwickthekingmaker7281 4 ปีที่แล้ว +274

      yes and no. No because head injuries doesn´t work that way in reality. If you hit someone hard enough to make them pass out, they are likely to sustain severe head injury and probably brain damage. Yes because Tolkien literally used this cliché in the Hobbit when Bilbo passed out during the battle of the five armies.

    • @drinkwatertopreventkidneys841
      @drinkwatertopreventkidneys841 4 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      The most essential step is the last

  • @Vince-tt1uj
    @Vince-tt1uj 4 ปีที่แล้ว +962

    Isildur soldiers: "Where is Lord Isildur?"
    Elrond doing Gimli face: "He fell..."

    • @terrylandess6072
      @terrylandess6072 3 ปีที่แล้ว +86

      It is unwise to seek the counsel of elves, for they will answer with both yes and no.....

    • @Legionary219
      @Legionary219 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      @@terrylandess6072 I just read Fellowship a few days ago and recognize that quote

    • @nickv.s125
      @nickv.s125 3 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      ''he slipped and fell into the fire''

    • @joshgarciagomez6608
      @joshgarciagomez6608 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      LOL

    • @murdanom
      @murdanom 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      *Looks at audience with a weird funny face* "...after my foot pushed him. I mean, technically he still did fall." *winks* *freezes* *funny family guyish punchline music in the background*

  • @kylew.3031
    @kylew.3031 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1780

    Frodo: "Pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance."
    Gandalf: "Do not be quick to deal out Death in judgment."

    • @Eliras24
      @Eliras24 4 ปีที่แล้ว +87

      probably the best quote in the films

    • @aaron90omar
      @aaron90omar 4 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      And very adequate for this scenario

    • @princewulfblud1366
      @princewulfblud1366 4 ปีที่แล้ว +57

      It was pity that stayed Bilbis hand

    • @HappyFlapps
      @HappyFlapps 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      "...For even the Wise cannot see all ends."

    • @mitchbarredo3990
      @mitchbarredo3990 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Death and Judgement.

  • @benwest3223
    @benwest3223 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2294

    "This is madness!"
    "No. This ... is ... MORDOR!" *kick*

    • @grandadmiralzaarin4962
      @grandadmiralzaarin4962 4 ปีที่แล้ว +118

      Walks out
      "Where's Isildur?"
      "I'm afraid in his weariness he slipped..."

    • @Fenris77
      @Fenris77 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Don't forget the spittle LOL...

    • @ultimatepaine6401
      @ultimatepaine6401 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      Grand Moff ” umm Sauron was enclosed inside the ring when Isildur tried to throw it in, a large arm came out and took Isildur with it.”

    • @Fenris77
      @Fenris77 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      OH, and the accent.
      "THAES AES MODOOOOR!!!" *Spittle*

    • @lexi9956
      @lexi9956 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@grandadmiralzaarin4962 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

  • @TheLastPhoen1x
    @TheLastPhoen1x 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2540

    *Everyone:* He killed our high king!
    *Elrond:* He put on the ring and Sauron possessed him.
    *Everyone:* oh, ok
    THE END

    • @AnimeCritical
      @AnimeCritical 4 ปีที่แล้ว +154

      In such a situation nobody was willing to listen to Elrond the murderer of their king.

    • @azaram8133
      @azaram8133 4 ปีที่แล้ว +121

      The Last Phoenix
      Everyone: but what if Sauron possessed Elrond and that’s why he killed our king? We should still kill him

    • @MaXiMoS54
      @MaXiMoS54 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      Fake news, Isildur did nothing wrong!

    • @trustmeits610pm2
      @trustmeits610pm2 4 ปีที่แล้ว +96

      Bullshit. People listening to reason in a tense situation? That's the REAL fantasy you got there.

    • @GreenGlo1991
      @GreenGlo1991 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Azaram 813 we’ll just kill everybody. Just in case.

  • @onlymeok
    @onlymeok 4 ปีที่แล้ว +288

    Elrond: Trade ya three elven rings for that plain gold one.
    Isildur: No.
    Elrond: But it's my birthday.

    • @Matli1804
      @Matli1804 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      Elrond: And I wants it
      Isildur: I found this and I’m going to keep it
      Elrond: oh are you indeed my love
      Elrond strangles Isildur

    • @johns1625
      @johns1625 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      And I wants it

  • @audreydimmel6674
    @audreydimmel6674 2 ปีที่แล้ว +185

    "Melkor laughed forever in the void." First of all, that might be the most bloodcurdling sentence I've ever heard. Second of all, you're exactly right. If elves and men fought each other, then Melkor would have, in a way, won.
    Also:
    "Rain fell upon Middle-Earth, and it would never cease, for these were the tears of Ilúvatar, as His children had slaughtered each other." That might be the most devastating sentence I've ever heard.

    • @SevenStarsandSevenStones
      @SevenStarsandSevenStones ปีที่แล้ว +8

      There really is some beautiful prose here.

    • @Fatmanstan606
      @Fatmanstan606 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yes but they beeeeeen slaughtering each other, Feinor/Fingulfin/Noldor/Numenor.

  • @skzanarchist
    @skzanarchist 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1322

    * inhales * *ISILDUuuURR*

    • @Surtur99
      @Surtur99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +99

      *No...* * smirks and walks away*

    • @larrymayfield6118
      @larrymayfield6118 4 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      I love you guys

    • @yourstruly4817
      @yourstruly4817 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      Why, why, why do you persist, Mr. Isildur?

    • @fantasywind3923
      @fantasywind3923 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      "But Isildur refused this counsel, saying: 'This I will have as weregild for my father's death, and my brother's. Was it not I that dealt the Enemy his death-blow?'" :)

    • @ScottStratton
      @ScottStratton 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      fantasywind “And also, am I not a great leader of men? Man: who’s doom is to make short-sighted, self-interested decisions again and again unto all the ages? Yes I am!” * pockets ring.

  • @beaudowns51
    @beaudowns51 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1753

    “Let’s make a pro and cons list”- Isildur

    • @BAGELMENSK
      @BAGELMENSK 4 ปีที่แล้ว +90

      **puts on ring and runs away**

    • @BAGELMENSK
      @BAGELMENSK 4 ปีที่แล้ว +101

      "1. It makes you invisible"

    • @sharonsartisticcorner1195
      @sharonsartisticcorner1195 4 ปีที่แล้ว +95

      Pro 2, It fits perfectly!

    • @romusa10
      @romusa10 4 ปีที่แล้ว +67

      3. Im the one who slice it from sauron, so fuck off

    • @legogandalf5453
      @legogandalf5453 4 ปีที่แล้ว +68

      1. It's precious

  • @bethpotterveld1172
    @bethpotterveld1172 3 ปีที่แล้ว +233

    I recall being told of a letter in which Tolkien explained that literally no one could have thrown the Ring into the fires by their own will power. Frodo bringing it to the very chasm was as close as anyone could have done. There in the heart of its realm, the Ring's power was stronger than the will of any other person.
    So when it comes to Elrond and Isildur, sure Elrond was pure enough of heart to have the wherewithall to TELL Isildur to cast it into the fire, but he would not have been able to do it himself. No matter if he tried to knock Isildur out, or cut off his hand, or just push him in all together, Elrond could not have forced himself to destroy the Ring.

    • @1mol831
      @1mol831 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Would Tom be able to do it?

    • @LeeYoung296
      @LeeYoung296 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      I think so, but of course TB never seemed to trouble himself with such things anyway

    • @generalerica4123
      @generalerica4123 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      @@LeeYoung296 Yes, so, when Gandalf and Elrond and Galadriel talk about where best to hide the ring, Tom comes up, but is soon after discarded. On one hand, he’d make for a perfect ring bearer as the ring has no effect on him, but on the other hand, the fear was that Tom would eventually forget about the ring due to its insignificance to him, which could end disastrously for middle earth.

    • @mikecampbell1731
      @mikecampbell1731 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I disagree. If lowley Sméagol can attack Frodo and throw the ring in by accident I see no reason why Elrond couldn’t simply push him in. I agree the ring is more powerful at mount doom and no true ring bearer would ever be able to throw it in but again Elrond wasn’t wearing it and thus shouldn’t have been effected by its power

    • @generalerica4123
      @generalerica4123 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@mikecampbell1731 Because Elrond pushing Isildur would be a conscious act to destroy the ring, whereas gollum never intended to destroy the ring, he wanted it for himself.
      For that to work, Elrond would have to - without choosing to do so might I add - reach for the ring to keep it for himself, with the ensuing melee accidentally ending in the destruction of the ring.

  • @rainer_uncrowned
    @rainer_uncrowned 4 ปีที่แล้ว +642

    Elrond: Cast it into the fire! Destroy it!
    Isildur: I gotchu fam
    *Directed by Peter Jackson*

    • @biaslina
      @biaslina 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      11

    • @josephn1000
      @josephn1000 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Somehow they stretch that out over 3 movies :P

    • @edwardv1255
      @edwardv1255 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@josephn1000 It's like in Inception. While the ring is towards the fire, fifteen wars are taking place in different dream levels.

    • @Lord-Emperor-Vader
      @Lord-Emperor-Vader 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      In the Lego Lord Of The Rings game there is an achievement called that it wont be that easy where you throw Isildur into the fires of Mount Doom.

    • @spectralis6632
      @spectralis6632 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Isildur: fam this ring makes me feel soooo good you should try it too *forcibly puts the ring on elrond*

  • @Bearlord771
    @Bearlord771 4 ปีที่แล้ว +529

    What if Isildur slipped on a rock and fell into lava

    • @thunderstudent
      @thunderstudent 4 ปีที่แล้ว +147

      Elrond: DESTROY IT!!!!
      Isildur: No.{Turns to leave, then slips on a rock like a dork and falls into the lava below}
      Elrond: Oh f@$&! I’m going to get blamed for this somehow. I just know it!

    • @idkwhattomakemyname101
      @idkwhattomakemyname101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I mean spongebob tripped on a pebble so its hella possible 💁🏽‍♂️

    • @thorzyan
      @thorzyan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      "The lieutenant just slipped Sir."

    • @SuperPrestogamer
      @SuperPrestogamer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Bearman than bilbo baggins, WOULDNT have been able to save the dwarves from the elves who were trying to reclaim there homeland, and I know your probably saying, but Sauron was destroyed, well that’s true but not all monsters were bound to Sauron, Shelob wasnt, so neither were the Mirkwood spiders, meaning they wouldn’t even be saved by the elves they would’ve been eaten by spiders....bam the dwarves DONT reclaim there homeland and bilbo is eaten by spiders

    • @based_kumanovar4799
      @based_kumanovar4799 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Bearman They would make war against the Rock

  • @patrickcole7896
    @patrickcole7896 4 ปีที่แล้ว +170

    Considering the thousands that die in battle, the gracious thing to do would be for Elrond to offer his life to the humans in repayment for the life of their king, and to show that it was not done in malice.

    • @goodputin4324
      @goodputin4324 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Not thousands, more like 100 000 over. Both Lindon and Arnor never recovered their former population.

    • @GeorgeMonet
      @GeorgeMonet 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      No. An elven life is worth far more than even a thousand human lives because elves are immortal whereas the humans lived for a couple of decades.

    • @goodputin4324
      @goodputin4324 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@GeorgeMonet all lives are equal

    • @jordanw7110
      @jordanw7110 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@goodputin4324 idealistically yes but elves prize their life force above all else or they will never walk on the stars. With the races of middle earth ive always seen it as this.
      Elves-selfish and racist
      dwarfs- stubborn and hard working
      men- self absorbed and let their emotions show
      hobbits- pure hearted and kind
      What makes this cool is imo is mixed races you get to see a merge of traits from both races.

    • @alanpennie8013
      @alanpennie8013 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Let's hope the humans aren't aware that Elrond will be immediately resurrected.

  • @johnbunceiii2668
    @johnbunceiii2668 3 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    A fun theory, and well thought out too, but I could never see Elrond doing this. As our guy mentions at one point, Elendil and his sons are family. Distant family, but Elrond remembers his brother and will have thought of him when seeing anyone of numenorean royal descent.

    • @qaz010wsx
      @qaz010wsx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      So he remembers his brother, eh? That means he is ok with this great- great-...-grandson/grandnephew marrying his daughter.

    • @Asraeks
      @Asraeks 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@qaz010wsx still much less inbred than average irl aristorcracy

    • @bitchface235
      @bitchface235 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@qaz010wsx you say that like incest isnt super common amongst royal families. It is insanely common. It is how they keep their bloodlines pure

    • @chucknorris202
      @chucknorris202 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yep and its why Elrond raised all the future Kings of Arnor and later the Chieftains of the Dunedain; he has a high degree of loyalty to his family. Aragorn, who he raised as his foster father, is also directly related to Elrond, although separated by thousands of years. And yeah he was totally fine with Arwen marrying Aragorn so long as Aragorn met Elrond's conditions(that being: the final defeat of Sauron, and gaining the Kingship of Arnor and Gondor).

    • @Thoregor
      @Thoregor ปีที่แล้ว

      @@chucknorris202 this slightly implies that all or many of the Dunedain Chieftains were brought to Rivendell and Arwen was always entertaining them as a romantic interest.

  • @nunouno001
    @nunouno001 4 ปีที่แล้ว +971

    Considering the kingdoms of humans had lost 9 of their kings to the corruption of the lesser rings, wouldn't Humans be somewhat aware that the destruction of the One Ring would be a good thing. I'm not saying that they would be happy with Isildur's death, but surely some of them would have recognized that ridding the world of Sauron's evil would be a worthy trade-off.

    • @christianfarren1179
      @christianfarren1179 4 ปีที่แล้ว +261

      True, but revenge overrides common sense more often than not.

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  4 ปีที่แล้ว +240

      For sure! I think they would have understood that through the One Ring, the Nine had fallen, but I do not think they would know the extent of its power, nor that Sauron endured because of it. Thus, they would have felt Isildur's death for its destruction to be unnecessary.

    • @maxpower3990
      @maxpower3990 4 ปีที่แล้ว +63

      Those king's weren't From Gondor or Anor, they were from Harad and Khand so they may have never heard of them.
      A better argument for Sauron's corrupting influence would have been the Numenourians in Umbar or the High King who was corrupted and declared war on Valinor in the 2nd age.

    • @Obi1kenobi10
      @Obi1kenobi10 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      But alas, men are stupid..... eye for an eye and all...

    • @meduseldtales3383
      @meduseldtales3383 4 ปีที่แล้ว +63

      @@MenoftheWest Hi. Great video, but I'm afraid you have a Catch-22 type of situation here. If Elrond was ready to commit a murder, that would make him evil in the moral code of Middle-earth. And if he was evil he wouldn't want to destroy the Ring. I think Tolkien was very clear that Good People don't do wrong things even for the right reason.

  • @sonicflash5090
    @sonicflash5090 4 ปีที่แล้ว +529

    What if Frodo and Sam ran out of Lembas Bread???

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

      Aaron : What if nice Sméagol ate all the Lembas Bread? (Burp)

    • @redblaze8700
      @redblaze8700 4 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      Then they would eat Sméagol, and eventually Frodo would eat Sam.
      XD

    • @anthonymcrooster3703
      @anthonymcrooster3703 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      @@redblaze8700 Nah, I think Smeagol would whisper doubts into Frodo to convince him that it was Sam the Fat who ate all the bread so they eat Sam first. The 'autopsy' would reveal that Sam didn't have all that Lembas in him so Frodo would feel remorseful and kill the Gollum for that treachery. When confronting the child of Ungolianth, Frodo would be pushed back so in order to sneak past her he uses the Gollum's corpse as a bait.

    • @redblaze8700
      @redblaze8700 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Anthony McRooster But Shelob wouldn’t eat Sméagol since he is so thin and bony, so she would’ve go after Frodo instead, while the ring is lost somewhere in the tunnels.

    • @bg3841
      @bg3841 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      What if they ended up with some nice taters?

  • @MkZuO12345
    @MkZuO12345 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I think Elrond would have never consider killing Isildur even for greater good. Becoming kinslayer (which in Tolkien mythology was pretty much the biggest crime one can commit and Isildur being Elronds distant nephew), especially after being well aware of the tragedy of sons of Feanor would never sit well with him.

  • @jaelee2930
    @jaelee2930 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    It will never stop to amaze me how one mind could create all of this.So many names,so many flawless back stories,so many main characters perfectly made,so many friendship and so much evil.

  • @IggyTthunders
    @IggyTthunders 4 ปีที่แล้ว +186

    My answer to that question:
    Then Elrond would be simultaneously both the worst *and* best friend ever.

    • @sharonsartisticcorner1195
      @sharonsartisticcorner1195 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      Not to mention the worst uncle ever

    • @Lord-Emperor-Vader
      @Lord-Emperor-Vader 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@sharonsartisticcorner1195 I think there will still be worse uncles then him like Steppenwolf from Jostice League since how could anyone that poorly designed exist

  • @DavidWesley
    @DavidWesley 4 ปีที่แล้ว +523

    Great alternate history! Proof that “How-The-War-Of-The-Last-Alliance-Should-Have-Ended” options could spin out into new conflict...

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      Thanks David! It’s good to hear from you again, my friend! I hope the music is going well! I’m still so glad that we collaborated on that Sauron history!

    • @christophermaccool8029
      @christophermaccool8029 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@MenoftheWest could you make a video about why Bormire was not made into the king of Gondor after defending it for so long?

    • @rhudaur3609
      @rhudaur3609 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@christophermaccool8029 The Line of Kings had died out a thousand years before the events of LOTR. Boromir was only a commander of Gondor, son of Steward Denethor. The Stewards of Gondor came after the Kings. Boromir was in line to receive the title of Steward, had he not been slain. If he had survived Amon Hen, he would have become the Steward under King Elessar (Aragorn).

    • @christophermaccool8029
      @christophermaccool8029 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rhudaur3609 but remember Gondor has not had a king for centuries and Denethor said himself he would not bow to Aragorn and Bormire said himself Gondor needs no King even though I am sure Bormire regretted that later on but as for his father it is obviously doubtful so you think Denethor would make his older and favorite son king and all of Gondor would approve and Bormire himself would too before he was forced to go to Rivendell.

    • @christophermaccool8029
      @christophermaccool8029 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@raulramirez4734 what does?

  • @user-ol8kl3wi5b
    @user-ol8kl3wi5b 3 ปีที่แล้ว +154

    I always believed the corrupting power of the ring grew greater as it came closer to mt. Doom. If elrond decided to attack isildur, he may also fall under its influence and decide to keep it.

    • @ordinarysavage
      @ordinarysavage 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Valid argument

    • @whoknows7968
      @whoknows7968 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      I'm not sure if the location of the Ring matters but I definitely believe, the closer the Ring is to destruction the more power and influence it will unleash in an attempt to corrupt it's bearer.

    • @danielebeddia8910
      @danielebeddia8910 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      I like to think that no one is capable of destroying the ring on purpose. It had to be some accident

    • @whoknows7968
      @whoknows7968 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@danielebeddia8910 That raises the question, if Elrond tried to push Isildur into mountain doom with the intention of destroying him with the RIng would the corruption of the Ring stop him? Or does the corruption only prevent the Ring bearer from consciously destroying it.

    • @BaranZenon
      @BaranZenon 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@whoknows7968 Propadlly. Maybe that is why only halflings, like Sam, Frodo and Golum, could get so far to actually destroy it (even if barelly), since hobbits are very resistant to the corruption of the ring.

  • @JayPenrake
    @JayPenrake 3 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    8:33
    That argonian must be like 'wtf am i doing here?'

    • @Romello.a
      @Romello.a 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Lol

    • @DarkSlayer010
      @DarkSlayer010 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      😂😂😂
      Yeah!
      He’s like: “What the...Thalmor here too?? And what’s with the white tree??”

    • @Kryptnyt
      @Kryptnyt 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      "Hmmm... yes. It is good to exist."

  • @zugalov7592
    @zugalov7592 4 ปีที่แล้ว +350

    Actually there is an achievement in the Lego LOTR if you killed yourself as Isildur in the first mission throwing yourself into the mount doom.
    I don't remember the name of the achievement.

    • @marionbaggins
      @marionbaggins 4 ปีที่แล้ว +133

      It's called, "It won't be that easy!" and that name is correct in this context!!!

    • @MGX93dot
      @MGX93dot 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      I checked, apparently it is "It won't be that easy!".

    • @darthXreven
      @darthXreven 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      lol that's awesome, I just wish the Lego games did more with their game options and let me change camera pitch Y swap cus I just can't play em forced into that camera control style lol
      but I loved the Lego games when they did let me flip my camera eh

    • @JoeIsCrazyWillman
      @JoeIsCrazyWillman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I now have to go do this. Excuse me... 🤣

    • @kevinkenealy1179
      @kevinkenealy1179 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Probably called ISILDUUUUURRRRR

  • @erichgolden1812
    @erichgolden1812 4 ปีที่แล้ว +204

    "Rain fell upon Middle-Earth, and it would never cease, for these were the tears of Ilúvatar, as His children had slaughtered each other."
    I didn't ask for these feels

    • @joannelucille
      @joannelucille 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Sounds a lot like our world. 😞

    • @Balon-Breakspear
      @Balon-Breakspear 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@joannelucille not really there has been less war in the last 80 years than at any point through history. It’s hard to believe but this is the most peaceful time in history.

    • @ritam8767
      @ritam8767 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@Balon-Breakspear yes, but not because we've grown wiser, it's because of nuclear bombs and Mutually Assured Destruction.

    • @echidnanatsuki882
      @echidnanatsuki882 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      God imagine how worse our world would be if nukes were never a thing

    • @BaranZenon
      @BaranZenon 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@echidnanatsuki882 Basically plot of Red Alert 3 :)

  • @fleuph6508
    @fleuph6508 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    In the books, as the quotes at the beginning said, there was never a scene of Elrond and Isildur in the cracks of doom like there was in the movie. Elrond had a post-battle discussion with Isildur, and he advised Isildur to destroy it. It is not directly implied in the books that either of the two of them ever went to the cracks of doom. That scene was added to the prologue of Fellowship of the Ring for dramatic effect.

  • @boldbearings
    @boldbearings 2 ปีที่แล้ว +55

    I can't see Elrond spending Elven lives to save his own neck, instead of just offering his own life to pay for Isildur's at the on-set.

    • @mechadoggy
      @mechadoggy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Indeed, like I see Elrond going home to Imladris and packing his suitcases to go to Valinor, but if he and the Elves were apprehended by Men on their way to the Grey Havens, he would gladly surrender his life if that meant the children of Eru Illuvatar won’t wage war against each other.

    • @lightworker2956
      @lightworker2956 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Yeah, agree.
      If Elrond kills Isildur, I think he then just goes up to men and says: "I murdered Isildur, feel free to kill me, however the other elves are innocent. I acted alone." And then Elrond possibly gets executed, and everyone else lives happily ever after.

    • @ellag3265
      @ellag3265 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Especially since Elrond will literally reincarnate lol

    • @boldbearings
      @boldbearings 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ellag3265 ohhh I know 😱
      Immortality AND reincarnation just in case
      Im furious as Al Pharazon 😡 😱😡😱😡

    • @boldbearings
      @boldbearings 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@mechadoggy Elrond with actual suitcases.
      Rolling luggage 🤣

  • @redblaze8700
    @redblaze8700 4 ปีที่แล้ว +716

    Elrond: "Are you okay?"
    Círdan: "I have the power of foresight. I went forewords in time to view alternate outcomes of the coming conflict."
    Gil-Galad: "How many did you see?"
    Círdan: "14 000 605!"
    Elrond: And in how many did we win?"
    Círdan: "1"!
    *after Sauron's' defeat in Mordor*
    Elrond: "Isildur! Let's take the One Ring to Mount Doom and destroy it!"
    Isildur: "No, I'm gonna keep it. It will be an heirloom of my house."
    Elrond" ISILDUR!"
    *Círdan stops Elrond and waits for Isildur to leave*
    Elrond: "Why?"
    Círdan: "There was no other way."

    • @Hi-fh8ij
      @Hi-fh8ij 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Couldn't Elrond just take it out of Isildurs hands and throw it?

    • @Maryland2
      @Maryland2 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      Days with Mylo! Isildur would have drawn his sword to kill Elrond because he was already starting to be corrupted by the ring

    • @eviesunshine9256
      @eviesunshine9256 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      So Cirdan is also Stephen Strange. I love that.

    • @LandStrider23
      @LandStrider23 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@Hi-fh8ij Isildur was Numenorian and enhanced by the corruption of the ring. Much easier said than done

    • @connorross4571
      @connorross4571 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Wow, this is funny.

  • @TheCatWatches
    @TheCatWatches 4 ปีที่แล้ว +221

    HISHE really missed the opportunity to use this idea lol

  • @lesigh1749
    @lesigh1749 3 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    "This human guy is like "You know actually I'm gonna keep it. I like it so I'm gonna keep it and its mine now"
    "Wow. Does Elrond try to stop him?"
    "Of course he does..."
    "Okay good!"
    "...verbally, a little "
    "Well, it seems like a lot of potential problems could have been avoided if he put a bit more effort into that."
    "Probably! So anyway..."

    • @BoyKagome
      @BoyKagome 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Pitch Meeting?

    • @lesigh1749
      @lesigh1749 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@BoyKagome Yep!

  • @Wissle
    @Wissle 2 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    Really interesting! It seems it all hinges on that one human guy seeing Elrond kill Izildur though, right?
    How would it change if nobody had witnessed this and Elrond could have explained or lied to the men waiting there?

    • @averongodoffire8098
      @averongodoffire8098 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Or simply said nothing, leaving without a word without the king of men

  • @Atlatl960
    @Atlatl960 4 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    Elrond: Cast it into the Fire!
    Isildur: No...
    Elrond: Fine.. I’ll do it myself

    • @Lord-Emperor-Vader
      @Lord-Emperor-Vader 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wrong Thanos quote you should have used I'm sorry little one.

  • @MrBottlecapBill
    @MrBottlecapBill 4 ปีที่แล้ว +344

    Elrond, being "the wise" would have simply said, Isildur was torn by the spirit of Sauron trying to possess him and prevent him from destroying the ring and so cast himself into the fire to finish what he had started, and save the world. The end. It would have been a small lie easily sold by making Isildur the hero. I'm sure he and CIrdan could even muster up a few fake tears which probably wouldn't have been hard to do consideriing they killed a friend. He could even have begged forgiveness for not being able to stop Isildur to add icing to the cake. It's not like the Elves didn't know how to lie.........quit frowing like that. :P

    • @russellshaw8479
      @russellshaw8479 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      At Bill Kennedy. You are forgetting Isildur's squire who witnessed the murder.

    • @manuelgreil4306
      @manuelgreil4306 4 ปีที่แล้ว +77

      @@russellshaw8479 *stab stab throw splash* What squire? :)

    • @russellshaw8479
      @russellshaw8479 4 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      @@manuelgreil4306. I guess, by that point they might as well have just allowed the original story line to play out. They would be trading one evil for another.
      This example proves how wise and far seeing Elrond actually was. In the end middle earth was freed from Sauron, the elves peacefully faded to the west, dwarves and men (and hobbits) had a happy ending. As fairy tales should.

    • @technounionrepresentative4274
      @technounionrepresentative4274 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@russellshaw8479 they could kill Him and say that a orc straggler shot the the
      Squire

    • @russellshaw8479
      @russellshaw8479 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      @@technounionrepresentative4274 Agreed. But, the problem is by these acts they become what they were fighting. Murderers and liars. Sadly.

  • @BIGESTblade
    @BIGESTblade 3 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    Elrond: "Destroy it!"
    Isildur: "No."
    Elrond: "Get danked noob."

  • @grassblock7668
    @grassblock7668 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    13:35 I was so scared he was gonna hit us with a "Somehow Melkor has returned" kinda thing.

  • @stefanomorandi7150
    @stefanomorandi7150 4 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    best possible outcome: Elrond kicks Isildur into the fire, THEN SUICIDE JUMPING AS WELL. when the mountain explodes everyone assumes they died by accident, happiness and no war. the end

    • @user-tc9sk4ei9y
      @user-tc9sk4ei9y 4 ปีที่แล้ว +43

      Best possible outcome. Morgoth jumps in a volcano instead of destroying the trees of light, Sauron did not turn evil, Feanor don't kill the king of sea elves, everybody's happy, flying unicorn shit rainbows.

    • @Jin-di9zv
      @Jin-di9zv 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      everything that makes the books what is is doesn't happen and no one cares.
      *the end*

    • @ivans.5959
      @ivans.5959 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That would be the best alternative ending, as someone said, elves are not afraid of death so he could have sacrificed himself as well. After that the people could use that "incident" as a way to unite the elves and men

    • @JustaGuy_Gaming
      @JustaGuy_Gaming 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Honestly the corruption of the ring seems to be based largely by personal power and proximity. The close you get, the worse it is as well as the "Stronger" and more power driven you are. Simply put I really doubt Elrond could get close without falling to the power of the ring himself. The best option would of been an arrow shot.... perhaps shooting the ring out of hand directly. Might even been able to manage it without causing any harm due to eleven hax powers.
      Sadly I don't think it would really matter if Isildur died or not though, unless the rings destruciton completely cleared the greed in Isildur's heart he'd seek vengeance just the same. Killing himself also wouldn't achieve much unless there were no witnesses at all, which again the conveniently placed squire which saw just enough would be the issue.

  • @ramsayburch6738
    @ramsayburch6738 4 ปีที่แล้ว +124

    Spot on, Yoystan. Clearly this would be a betrayal on the part of Elrond, but I've often wondered about the consequences of this hypothetical murder. Thanks for delving into it!

    • @jeffburnham6611
      @jeffburnham6611 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Elrond could have simply said when the One Ring was cast into the fire, the lava consumed Isildur. He wouldn't have to had said the ring was still being held by Isildur when he was pushed in. Maybe the Men would've considered Isildur a hero then, and only Elrond would know the truth of what really happened.

    • @nikolasjohnson6946
      @nikolasjohnson6946 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@jeffburnham6611 I think in this video it's stated that one of Isildurs men witnessed the murder so lying was out of the question. Now if that guy was actually present in the books or was added purely for this video I can't say.
      Would be a pretty dull video though if it went Men and Elves win, Isildur gets chucked in Mt Doom, Elrond lies, everyone lives happily ever after.

    • @morgant.dulaman8733
      @morgant.dulaman8733 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      I think what a lot of people forget is that for Elrond, Isildur was family, if distant. Elrond had already lost his parents to a kinslaying. He'd watch reckless actions destroy the sons of Feanor. He'd seen rash and prideful actions destroy the numenorians. He'd grown up listening how pride and treachery had led to the near triumph of Morgoth in the first age. In the end, for him, the idea of killing a family member in hopes of preventing a future evil was probably more abhorrent than can be expressed in any language, Human, Elvish, or even Entish.

    • @BrooklynRedLeg
      @BrooklynRedLeg 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@morgant.dulaman8733 - Absolutely correct! Kin-slaying is one of the worst sins to commit in Middle-Earth and it would have certainly been kin-slaying. The movies overplay this scene in my opinion, especially Isildur. Its also doubtful that Cirdan, Elrond and Isiltur were every at the Sammath Naur.

  • @madmouse1016
    @madmouse1016 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Jesus, just makes you feel bad for Elrond. To die by men, especially since he was part men and that his brother even chose to be with those of men over elves. Its so sad ...

  • @grandsome1
    @grandsome1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    For all we know the ring fogged Elrond's mind preventing him from even thinking about kicking Isildur into the flames. Frodo "succeeded" because it's the greed the ring itself created that caused the fall Gollum into the volcano.

    • @helplmchoking
      @helplmchoking 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Or maybe the failure of Isildur and Elrond is what led to the divine intervention causing Gollum to trip, perhaps Illuvitar knew from the first time that the ring would not allow itself to be destroyed so this time he made it happen.
      Not sure though, I feel like he'd have known that the first time given his all-knowing thing

    • @isilion
      @isilion 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hellaciousharry We can crearly see some of Eru's interventions through out the story.
      We can see it crearly when Gandalf said: “Behind that [Bilbo finding the ring] *there was something else at work,* beyond any design of the Ring-maker. *I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring,* _and not by its maker.”_ (LotR, Fellowship of the Ring, chapter 2)

  • @manuelgreil4306
    @manuelgreil4306 4 ปีที่แล้ว +109

    Elrond:"No, Isildur slipped and fell! I tried to catch him, but, alas, I was just not quick enough. Also, let it be known, that snitches get stitches. Now excuse me while I start fading and go sail into the West" The End.

    • @soulofash2112
      @soulofash2112 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Worked for the Kennedys...

  • @aussiejed1
    @aussiejed1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    "I can't throw it Mr Frodo... but I can throw you!"

  • @croweman6515
    @croweman6515 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Isildur: (walks away from lava)
    Elrond: "UNO reverse card!"

  • @Oshaoxin
    @Oshaoxin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +72

    "What if Elrond had pushed Isildur into the Fires of Mount Doom?"
    Answer: One crispy Isildur and a whole lotta peace.

    • @Oshaoxin
      @Oshaoxin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@CaseyJonasCatt We'd also have a very remorseful elf. Isildur was the new King of Gondor after his father was slain by Sauron.

    • @crabberdabberye
      @crabberdabberye 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      well I don’t think Elrond would even have been able to push him, don’t forget he is a numenorian physically stronger and larger than elves. Elrond didn’t have his ring of power on yet.

    • @KurtVW
      @KurtVW 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's a fun thought that it might be that simple. But really that kind of detaches the story from reality more than necessary.
      We all wish life was so simple. Snuff out Lincoln, or Jefferson Davis what possible harm could come from it?
      Snuff out Putin, or Trump, or Biden? It'll be fine I'm sure... Snuff out Cookie Monster, or Yoda? Sorry, went too far.
      Anyhow... The world isn't cartoon simple. Even in Lord of the Rings.

    • @Lord-Emperor-Vader
      @Lord-Emperor-Vader 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CaseyJonasCatt And Durin's Bane.

  • @mikey_vengenz
    @mikey_vengenz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +85

    As I thought lol. Ending the true evil of the world. But screwing any friendly relationship between Humans and Elves.

    • @kettch777
      @kettch777 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Not necessarily. "He slipped."

    • @spaceycaveco.698
      @spaceycaveco.698 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      kettch777 His boots were untied

    • @quijano89
      @quijano89 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      “He dropped it and tried to dive in after it. I told him to let it go but he just dove right in like Michael Phelps”

    • @HappyFlapps
      @HappyFlapps 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@spaceycaveco.698 ROFLMFAO!!

  • @gabrieldjatienza6971
    @gabrieldjatienza6971 4 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    It's over Isuldur, I have the high ground!!
    You underestimate my power, Elrond!!
    Isuldur leaps at Elrond who pushes him into the lava.....

    • @Martin_ami
      @Martin_ami 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Dysnie buys amazom and this remake is going to be in : 2024 mark my words

    • @Lord-Emperor-Vader
      @Lord-Emperor-Vader 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      All he has to do is step to the side since there is no guard rails on that thin bridge then he is 100% guilt free.

  • @tarnopol
    @tarnopol 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    My research has shown that the chair of Oxford's English department actually tried to shove Isildur in so that Tolkien would abandon the novel, publish more and take on greater teaching responsibilities, but JRRT had him ambushed by some orcs and erased from the history of Middle Earth. True story.

  • @Rensune
    @Rensune 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Isildur: "No"
    Elrond: *Yeet*

  • @bl4z3_ow11
    @bl4z3_ow11 4 ปีที่แล้ว +156

    Erlond: throw the Ring Isildur!!!!
    Isildur:NO!!!!
    Erlond:THIS IS SPARTA!!!

    • @seby826
      @seby826 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      lmfao!

    • @voldmerot
      @voldmerot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It's *Elrond bruh

    • @tylersoto7465
      @tylersoto7465 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      (Pokemon) trainer: Hitmonlee use high jump kick, HITMONLEE whaa (kicked) isildur: NOOO
      Trainer: yea I just won my volcano badge yippee lol

  • @prestonbarnes8065
    @prestonbarnes8065 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Elrond: "If I must destroy you to destroy the Ring, then so be it!"
    Isildur: "O really? Now you see me, now you don't!"
    Elrond: "What? Where did you--"
    Elrond: *decapitated*

    • @Strider73
      @Strider73 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Pretty sure elrond would be able to detect him regardless. If smegle can do it, a vastly powerful elf could.

  • @jasper4331
    @jasper4331 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    Cirdan: Elrond! Cast him into the fire!!
    Elrond: .. NO!
    Cirdan: ELROOOND!!!!!

  • @JCResDoc94
    @JCResDoc94 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    ☼ pretty intense man. this is one of your best. watching them play out.

  • @johnst.baptiste3664
    @johnst.baptiste3664 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I like that these 'What If' videos are interspersed about once a month, which keeps them fun to think on, as opposed to gimmicky. Spot on as always! thank you

  • @TheDrexxus
    @TheDrexxus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +79

    I think Elrond should've done it and then turned himself over to men and surrendered.
    That would've gone a long way toward good faith and having men listen to what he had to say instead of fleeing like a coward who didnt want to own up to his responsibility.
    He could've then explained why the ring had to be destroyed, how it corrupted Isildur, etc.
    Maybe the men would've listened. Maybe they wouldn't have. But either way, they would've just executed Elrond since he was the murderer of their high king, then that could've been the end of it. Men would feel like justice was done, elves would've lost a great leader but ultimately all the elves wanted to leave middle earth after the ring was destroyed anyway.
    And since Elrond basically would've just gone to elf-heaven when he died, it would've been the best outcome and happy ending ultimately for everyone.

    • @ButterBallTheOpossum
      @ButterBallTheOpossum 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      The elves would probably be super pissed off. It might start a war.

    • @samsunguser3148
      @samsunguser3148 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      If I was Elrond I think I would have yeeted myself to the lava

    • @Sayu277
      @Sayu277 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Considering elrond is basically ereinons heir (him +galadriel being the only other finwëans left in me after ereinons death) that wouldn't go over well.

    • @denzelwenzel
      @denzelwenzel 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Sayu277 Why not? You don't think his people would admire and respect his sacrifice?

    • @mechadoggy
      @mechadoggy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@samsunguser3148 Nah, being burned alive is too painful compared to a mere execution via hanging or beheading at the hands of Men

  • @liamjackson7501
    @liamjackson7501 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent theory !
    You put a lot of work into it.
    Thankyou I was transported to an alternative timeline that was captivating, though sad.
    I'm certain JRR himself considered this possible outcome.
    Thanks again for your work.
    Cheers mate

  • @lukec2004
    @lukec2004 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    But the question is: could he do it?
    Isildur wasn't just a random princeling, he was a Numenorean, the son of Elendil, he was an incredibly powerful man who was involved in the duel with Sauron, and ended up killing him
    He is probably not as powerful as Elrond, however while in the possession of the one ring his power was probably greater than Elrond could handle
    And he couldn't just sneak attack Isildur since the ring would probably warn him

    • @Makkaru112
      @Makkaru112 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Much shows in all the books outside the lotr books, isildur is much diminished version of his anscestors. Even his dad was rather diminished too. The only purest line was aragorn and Arwen merging bloodlines from two different strands that share anscestors. This is what revived nomenorean blood of Elros and Elrond coming together again. Which unifies elves to men again.

    • @cpegg5840
      @cpegg5840 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      The diminishment shows in their lessened lifespans and height; Elendil stood 8 ft tall while Isildur stood 7 ft tall; that’s one example of diminshment.

    • @dw1419
      @dw1419 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Contra Peter Jackson, Isildur didn’t kill Sauron. It took the combined efforts of Gil-galad and Elendil and cost them both their lives.

    • @ExtraVictory
      @ExtraVictory 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@dw1419 Isildur and Anarion formed an alliance and beat Sauron at Dagorlad in the books as well. Plus Isildur WAS able to cut off Sauron's finger and seperate him from the ring in the books as well. So its not just made up for the movie. Isildur is a numenorean and is definitely relative to Sauron. Much weaker, but still able to damage hm, react to him and fight him. Considering Sauron is described to be "of far higher order" than the Maiar that came to middle earth as the 5 wizard istari like gandalf and saruman. That makes Isildur a pretty tough out for just about any mortal in this verse. I agree he is definitely beneath Elrond base to base. But with the one ring Elrond would get slept.
      Keep in mind, the blood of numenor was eventually diluted. Down the line. Which is why there are lots of average, and below average men. But Isildur was alive before the downfall of numenor lmfao. It would be absurd to say he was diluted when he was born into their civilization at its height. And it was only starting to fall due to sauron. Also, the dilution of the blood of numenor doesnt make a human weaker. It makes you less likely to be exceptional. And more likely to be less exceptional, even if you are. So it doesn't mean each generation gets weaker than the one before it automatically. It just means each new generation is less likely to be on that level than their parents. But the odds never drop to 0% because that power and potential is still in the blood. It just depends on how much of the blood of numenor you inherit, compared to how much of the diluted human blood you inherit. Aragorn didn't gain any new numenorean blood when he became Elessar. He simply got outrageously lucky in the genetic lottery and inherited most of the power of his ancestors, which is why he was so exceptional of course. Most or all of his blood was inherited from the blood of numenor. With very little or no diluted blood. Thats why he could even surpass all his fathers and everyone who came before. Rejoining the blood with Arwen helped and was good, but she had forsaken the fate of elves and was not an elf anymore by then. Since she won't go to Valinor when she dies.

    • @dw1419
      @dw1419 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@ExtraVictory Isildur cutting off the finger from Sauron's corpse after Elendil and Gil-galad had been powerful enough to kill him (at the cost of their lives) even while he was wearing the ring is completely different from the movie portrayal, in which Sauron is completely OP and untouchable by anyone until Isildur, seconds from being killed, happens to get a lucky shot that slices off the ring.

  • @fleetcenturion
    @fleetcenturion 4 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    Moral of the story: Leave no witnesses!

  • @samuelbattershell3413
    @samuelbattershell3413 4 ปีที่แล้ว +139

    I wonder what would have happened if Isildur heeded Elrond's concil and threw the Ring into the fire of Mt. Doom

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  4 ปีที่แล้ว +69

      That would have made for the most peaceful Middle-earth! All free folk could live together in harmony, and Sauron would not return!

    • @ryarbrough459
      @ryarbrough459 4 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      I am not so sure about that. The Dwarves would have still probably awoken the Balrog eventually and Khazad Dum would have still potentially fallen. There could still easily have been distrust between the Elves and the Dwarves. Sauron and the One Ring did not cause this rift. There is also still the distinct possibility that the envy of Men for the longevity of the Elves could have eventually caused strife between them. While the descendants of Elendil and the other Numenoreans may not have lost much sleep over this difference between them, there are other Men who could have easily developed distrust and even hatred for the Eldar. The Easterlings and the Men of Harad are two likely sources for this, as they were long in the service of Sauron, even before the coming of the Numenoreans to Middle Earth. It is also possible that the Kingdoms of Men would've eventually warred with each other...for Men are weak and easily forget the lessons of the past.

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      Richard Yarbrough : All true.
      Also there is the small matter of Smaug the Dragon, who would likely still descend on the Lonely Mountain, destroying Dale and the Kingdom of Thror.
      The fate of Smaug might have been quite different. With Sauron destroyed, there would be no need for the Valar to send the Istari (the Five Wizards) into Middle Earth. Without Gandalf, Bilbo Baggins would not have accompanied Thorin Oakenshield on his quest - and Thorin’s Company might never have made it to the Lonely Mountain, likely being killed by goblins or imprisoned by Thranduil the King of the Greenwood Elves. Even if they had made it there, without Bilbo and the Ring, Smaug would almost certainly have destroyed them all.

    • @fantasywind3923
      @fantasywind3923 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I doubt that it actually could have happened this way, the power of the Ring at Orodruin is at it's maximum, even if Isildur listened to Elrond and Cirdan, he would be still most likely unable to willingly destroy it as:
      ‘Also so great was the Ring's power of lust, that anyone who used it became mastered by it; it was beyond the strength of any will (even his own) to injure it, cast it away, or neglect it. So he thought.’"
      ...
      "At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist,..."
      Any other course of events, the violent scuffle or anything of the sort would also mean the inevitable fall into corruption of the one who would attempt to take the Ring by force, it would work all the stronger.

    • @user_____M
      @user_____M 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@fantasywind3923 interesting, so it would corrupt Elrond too unless he ninja-threw Isildur into the fire.

  • @yelsahblah3270
    @yelsahblah3270 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gosh these little what ifs are so much fun. Thank you!

  • @manticorephoenix
    @manticorephoenix 4 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    Me, knowing really only two of the characters in this theory: "Yup, sounds about right, makes sense to me"

  • @JoaoPedro-qp9cw
    @JoaoPedro-qp9cw 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    This is amazing!
    It fits the tone of the original narrative and answers realistically a question I've always wondered about
    Amazing as always, Yoystan

  • @donnatornay2537
    @donnatornay2537 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This version of "what if theory " blew me away! Although the destruction of one greater evil was achieved, vengeance and hatred was left behind to linger and fester like a deadly cancer. This version has earned a top spot on my playback list as with a few more of your dedicated theories! KUDOS!

  • @mattbrooks90
    @mattbrooks90 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thankyou for this video/ theory. Brilliant. Bravo. Have been a Tolkien nut since the 70s and have pondered similar myself. Joyful to see someone give it a proper go. And what a go... can't fault your logic or insight at all, you convinced me! :) I loved the darkness... much more plausible and more engaging than dippy optimism.
    Perfectly presented also.
    I salute you, really enjoyed that.

  • @FlaviusRicimer
    @FlaviusRicimer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Good work! Elrond pushing Isildor into Mt. Doom would have been a Kinslaying. I reckon that had Cirdan allowed this he wouldn't have gone West, either through shame or a Ban, nor could his people continue to sail the straight path. Elrond would have sought the halls of Mandos through death, and the judgement would be long and severe. Death would be the only path to the West for the Elves of Middle Earth.

  • @champions_ash4594
    @champions_ash4594 4 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    Bro I’ve been wondering this since I was 7 years old

  • @TheRoguePrince0
    @TheRoguePrince0 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Men's hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature~ Flemeth

  • @ColinoDeani
    @ColinoDeani 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was Absolutely wonderful... You did a great job in every aspect

  • @lukecash3500
    @lukecash3500 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Reasons why Isildur falling into Mount Doom that day with the ring would be a moot point:
    -A big narrative focus of the LOTR story is in how these evil events happen but the way the free peoples respond to them is often heroic and positive, and it brings countries together, forms countries, there are even intellectual renaissance periods e.g. Aragorn ascending to the throne and the Dunedain culture being more accepted in Gondor, means also the advent of classical Elven education.
    In the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, Eru Illuvatar explicitly states to Melkor that he is using him to bring about more good, not less. More good than Melkor can even understand or see.
    Melkor's evil is a tool. For Illuvatar it is part of the natural cycle of society and the world recreating itself and improving. In every age society grows and Melkor's forces (i.e. Sauron as well by extension) take another step back in scale. From ruining entire mountains to being reduced to struggling to muster an army.
    -Melkor has marred all of Arda. The entire world is corrupted and this influences free people to become evil too.
    There will always be evil in some form and it will always mount to a great strength. That's just how Tolkien's universe works. Sauron losing now or later doesn't change that; Melkor has altered the world either forever or until it is remade.

  • @bsnhbksan
    @bsnhbksan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Next video: What if Elrond said Isildur had slipped and fell in?

  • @kevinjohnson2709
    @kevinjohnson2709 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    One of my favorite “what if’” so far. Well done 👏🏽👏🏽

  • @jacksondillard8363
    @jacksondillard8363 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for doing this video I have many times wondered about this

  • @Crafty_Spirit
    @Crafty_Spirit 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    An interesting video : ) Here are some additional thoughts:
    -It's questionable whether Elrond would have the strength to take down the man who defeated Sauron, and he would also be weakened mentally from attacking a friend
    -If the ring changes hands by violent means it seems to have very negative consequences for the new bearer, even in the short term. Remember that Bilbo found (or confiscated) the ring, while it was gifted to Frodo. This may have ended with Elrond killing Isildur and then taking the ring for himself.
    -The more powerful an individual already is, the more tempting the ring seems to be for them, the stronger it corrupts them - compare Hobbits with a Numenorian like Isildur, or the fact that Gandalf and Galadriel refused to take the ring, explaining that it would be especially destructive if they were to become ringbearers

  • @yellowisksheppard8889
    @yellowisksheppard8889 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Whoa you took that an unexpected direction! Love the amount of lore knowledge you have man.

  • @cingvaldson
    @cingvaldson 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Fantastic. Thoroughly enjoyable as always

  • @Thecommander248
    @Thecommander248 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I feel that Elrond may have offered his own life as tribute. The Elves wouldn't be happy, but his daughter was alive during that period. She could lead them. Elrond would feel so guilty that he probably would allow himself to be executed to save his people.

    • @pedrovargas2181
      @pedrovargas2181 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nope. Elrond did not have kids until the Third Age.

  • @haraldkapusta4471
    @haraldkapusta4471 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was very interesting , I enjoyd it very much. Thanks from Vienna Austria!!!

  • @sweettangerines8182
    @sweettangerines8182 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Oooh brilliant subject matter! Can't wait to watch this! 😃 ❤

  • @mineandforever2877
    @mineandforever2877 4 ปีที่แล้ว +71

    It's funny I was just thinking about this question

    • @bl4z3_ow11
      @bl4z3_ow11 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Me too 😂

  • @Bhoddisatva
    @Bhoddisatva 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    OK...I busted out laughing when I saw that title. :D Excellent vid!

  • @andord123
    @andord123 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I’m almost certain that if Elrond had intended to push Isildur the ring would corrupt his mind to preserve itself.

  • @naphasorn3993
    @naphasorn3993 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Fantastic!, I love this channel💕

  • @EclecticPkm
    @EclecticPkm 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Really enjoyed it. I think J R. R. Tolkien would have approved of your take on this.

  • @Narunata247
    @Narunata247 3 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    Isildur: The ring is mine!!
    Elrond: I’m gonna do what’s called a pro-gamer move!
    *Elrond yeets Isildur into mount doom*
    *Ending ost plays as credit rolls*

  • @gideonhodge3723
    @gideonhodge3723 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really enjoyed this. Kudos.

  • @ashishshrivastava4154
    @ashishshrivastava4154 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Man finally the question has been solved.
    Thanks yoystan.👍✌🙏

  • @kev3d
    @kev3d 4 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    "DESTROY IT!"
    "Okay"
    *ploop*
    "Alright, let's go grab some beers."
    credits roll

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Or - Mount Doom explodes, and Elrond and Isildur both die in the subsequent volcanic eruption. Unless the Eagles save them, of course...

    • @Martin_ami
      @Martin_ami 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@timonsolus ofc focking eagles are big brain 😂

  • @jet687
    @jet687 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is so good! One of the best!!!!

  • @DeifiedThoughts
    @DeifiedThoughts 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic theory, and very much akin to scenarios that have happened at one time or another in real life throughout history.
    I particularly liked how you conveyed the contrasting emotions of the valars
    Ulmo (who naturally would have felt great sorrow and anger at what had transpired)
    and Melkor who no doubt would have rejoiced over the fact that his actions ultimately set the stage for these chain of events to engulf arda in such misery.

  • @rjanssafttheiii4697
    @rjanssafttheiii4697 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Great what if video, I particularly think you got Cirdan’s reaction down to a T. However I have to disagree on a few things.
    Pretty sure the many kin slayings would have been more impactful to the Vala’s moods. Men die, that’s their gift. They aren’t born to live forever. The death of one, even by treachery would be nothing compared to massacre at alqualönde, or the sacking of Doriath. And one elf’s actions wouldn’t sour the entire race. Freedom and responsibility for your own actions is a major theme of good in LOTR.

  • @celtofcanaanesurix2245
    @celtofcanaanesurix2245 4 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    just another reason why people's criticisms of Tolkien's works are invalid, and his works are perhaps some of the best written by man along with the ancient classics of Beowulf, the Illiad, the Mabinogion, and the Tain Bo Cuailnge

    • @claressalucas8922
      @claressalucas8922 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You just produced the most brilliant post I've ever read. Um, I think you might be my soulmate.

    • @simonmorris4226
      @simonmorris4226 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      You missed Sir Gawain and the Green Knight! Kudos for including Mabinogion!

    • @haeilsey
      @haeilsey 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Also maybe the eddas and the Kalevala

    • @TorianTammas
      @TorianTammas 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Celt of Canaan Esurix - Tolkien wanted to make up some mythological work, but he cant be what you imagine it to be as all the other works lasted hundreds or thousands of years. Tolkien's work is just a few decades old and does not have the timelessness. The only one in the last centuries that had such a power and longevity was Shakespeare, but even his works have many hundred year to survive. Dante's work and others come as well to mind, but surely not a few decade old writing that hasn't proven that it can survive centuries.

  • @carmcarm8230
    @carmcarm8230 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I always thought of this, great video.

  • @phoule76
    @phoule76 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    some of your best work!

  • @twitchsopamanxx
    @twitchsopamanxx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    "Where is Isildur? Where is the king?"
    "He... uh... fell... into the lava?"
    "... fair enough. Alas, Isildur!"
    - roll credits - TAN TAAAAA TAAAA TA TA TAAAAAAA TA TA TAAAAA TA TA TAAAAA TA TA TAAAAAA TAAAAAA TA TAAAAAA

  • @christianpetersen163
    @christianpetersen163 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Elrond noticed the squire who had observed as he shoved Isildur to his doom. The man backed away slowly, terror in his eyes. Elrond casually walked up to him, put his arm around his shoulder and said:" This is a great honor for you. To walk in the footsteps of kings." Then, with a quick and violent move, he unceremoniously tossed the squire into the lava. Cirdan looked on in horror. "I do not imagine that you approve of my actions here, brother.", Elrond said. "I Cannot say that I do.", answered Cirdan. Elrond turned his back to him and mumbled to himself:" Thus sailed Cirdan, the oldest and wisests of the elves, finally into the west.", as he slowly reached for his dagger.
    Elrond emerged alone from the cave, with a new sense of purpose and direction.

  • @hydroknight8612
    @hydroknight8612 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just subbed. Your awesome man!
    Btw is that the pic you get from a defeated report in The Hobbit: Kingdoms of Middle-Earth I saw in there???

  • @crippen2416
    @crippen2416 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Beautiful and entertaining. Thank you.

  • @flycasual2976
    @flycasual2976 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    “Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him.”
    -Haldir Fellowship of the Ring (book quote)

  • @satortenet
    @satortenet 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I like how automatic subtitles are starting to pick up Tolkien's lingo.

  • @edpistemic
    @edpistemic 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent work.

  • @Chef_PC
    @Chef_PC 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is an absolutely brilliant video. Thank you.

  • @stormcraft2346
    @stormcraft2346 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Finally my question has been answered