Running Dragon Of Icespire Peak AND Lost Mine Of Phandelver!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is your DM guide for how to run the Dragon of Icespire Peak combined with the Lost Mine of Phandelver! Or as I like to call it: Lost DRAGON of Phandelver! Check out the Lost Mine of Phandelver on Amazon! amzn.to/3aYCTyd (affiliate) ⏬ More below! ⏬
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#dnd #dungeonsanddragons #icespirepeak - เกม
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Me: "You got your Lost Mine in my Icespire Peak!"
Also Me: "You got your Icespire Peak in my Lost Mine!"
Both Mes: "Whoa."
Regardless of whether they are two great tastes that taste great together, the real lesson here is that DMs shouldn't be afraid to make modules their own. Adapt them as needed to suit your play styles, your story arcs or whatever.
It makes sense to get this Chocolatey Icespire into the Peanut Butter Lost Mine
Exactly!
It was meant to be!
The lost Dragons of Phandelver
This is a great way to combine the two modules and build to the additional expansion adventures. I'm planning to combine the 2 modules and build to Rise of Tiamat. So will have Venomfang as the BBEG for this starting set, tying him into the followers of Tiamat. Idea is, the two dragons are feuding and Venomfang being the sneaky green dragon will be manipulating the other groups in the adventure (including the PC party) to take out Cyrovain and allow Venomfang to take over the area, the mine and the magic furnace core.
Cragmaw Goblins and Redbrand Ruffians are being used by Glasstaff, Glasstaff and the half-orcs are in turn being used by the Spider, who is in turn being used by Venomfang. The orcs and wererats are displaced from Cyrovain. The twist is, Venomfang poses as Cyrovain - so when the players meet the various mid-bosses they will be instigated against the White Dragon and will think the Green Dragon is a good guy (he will act peaceful and honorable if they meet in Thundertree). Once it all wraps up, Thundertree will reshape as a full dragon lair and the players can have a final showdown with a boosted Venomfang - revealed as the mastermind behind the whole thing and a champion of Tiamat.
Dude!! This is awesome! Definitely the way to go if you want to use Tyranny of Dragons, or just prefer dragons as villains! This isn't Dungeons & Half-orcs after all xD
ooh i was thinking a lot of the same things
i also wanted to give more room time develop venomfang vs cryovain rivallity, but not kinda sure how
Likewise. I'm using these as an entre into "Rise of Tiamat" and may use one or two of the subsequent modules following DoIP as transitional elements. As an additional twist, I'm running part of LMoP with Matthew Perkins "streamlining" of that module before I merge it with DoIP.
TBH - too much of DoIP is fluff. Yes, it's a sandbox, but so much of it doesn't forward the narrative that it's pretty easy to drop it and not lose anything in terms of story strength. I really liked some of the later modules, so when the party is done with WEC they move into the DoIP stories a little more deeply before taking on our BBEG - Cryovane.
If you use more of LMoP as the entry point into the narrative, and use DoIP as the continuation, it's a lot smoother.
im also going from LMOP to HotDQ to RoT but im also following up with the last half of the 4e Scales of War campaign which has the players helping Bahamut stop Tiamat's githyanki army and finally defeating Tiamat in her lair, and reuniting Tiamat and Bahamut back into Io to bring harmony to the dragons once and for all. This leads to a much more epic campaign i think with a nice conclusion that wraps everything up.
using LMOP and DOIP as a leadup to ToD is great i think because it helps provide a lot of character investment to that town and area but i agree that theres a lot of fluff in DOIP though which may cause players to lose the narrative of the ToD plot, like the cult of talos. however i also dont want everything in the campaign to be tied to dragons. there should be some normal unrelated quests and encounters i think. i dont like having two dragons early on in the adventure though so what im thinking is that cyrovain moves in and starts using kobolds to attack nearby areas, which leads to the events in the video. players then find cyrovain talking to dragon cultists. players drive out cryovain and then cryovain returns leading to the HotDQ attack on phandalin instead of greenest a few months after the gold mine becomes operational and phandalin starts to prosper.
making glasstaff a red wizard of thay is also a good tie in to the mission to thay part of the ToD campaign.
Nice.
When I ran Lost Mine (actually we had to leave off for the school year right before the end) I didn't have Icespire Peak yet, but I've planted seeds they could follow to Rise of Tiamat (cultists in Thundertree), Storm King's Thunder (rumors), Into the Abyss (overheard conversation with one of the dopplegangers working for Black Spider), the Waterdeep modules (chasing fleeing Glasstaff - they really hate him), Candlekeep, Descent to Avernus, Curse of Strahd, Dead in Thay (one of my PCs has the Inheritor background, and the inherited item is a mysterious book that appears to be both a partial copy of The Daemonomicon of Yggwilv and a collection of portal keys, that a group of Red Wizards (they don't know that yet) tried to capture years ago resulting in the death of the character's parents in her backstory, they need info on it, and they've received a creepy letter from Strahd by it falling out of the book addressed to the party). They also have a couple beefier items than normal becasue there's only 3 of them. I did xp by encounter, so they are at ALMOST the right level, having skipped nearly all the side quests ("the module made it seem urgent we rescue our employer") but they don't have action economy.
So now we just need to incorporate the Shattered Obelisk into this. 😄
I like the idea and also tried combining the adventures. Mine went more like this:
The party makes their way towards Phandalin and see two dragons fight above Neverwinter Forest, a green and a white one. The battle ends in mostly a draw with the white dragon slightly ahead, but it flies south towards the mountains.
Once they make their way to Phandalin, the mayor is hiding at home which allows some unsavory characters to muscle in, in the name of security, the Redbrands.
While the party fulfills the beginning quests, the Redbrands gain power eventually taking over the Manor as their base.
In the meantime, the Orc and Goblin raids increase for the reasons mentioned in the video.
Also, a mysterious person tries to get the adventurers to slay the white dragon and informs them about the Wave Echo Cave and the Dragon's Barrow, where a sword can be found that could be used against the dragon, but it would need to be repaired in the forges of the Cave.
The gnomes in Gnomegarden have some information on its whereabouts and vital information/artifacts are hidden in Axeholm.
Another party, the Black Spider also seeks entrance to Wace Echo Cave for his own nefarious purposes.
At the end, it turns out that the mysterious stranger is Venomfang in disguise, using a magic item to assume human form while recuperating and manipulating Black Spider, the party and the Orcs to slay Cryovain.
We are actually almost done with my take on the combination. Instead of basic mining supplies, the party is actually delivering the white dragon to Phandalin on a top secret mission. When the goblins ambush them however, the goblins accidentally release the dragon into the region. The reason the dragon is being delivered is because the locked door to the forge of spells requires the breath of a dragon. My party is just about to discover this. Also Nezznar is currently their party member, he is searching for the forge of spells and wanting to take it to the underdark for his college as a doctorate.
Gosh I wish I had waited a week to start my brand new campaign. I've been doing this sort of thing, but this gives me even more guidance on how to run things. Thank you very much for this!
Nah, starting campaigns is like planting trees: the best time to do it was 10 years ago! Though I'm glad you're still able to get some value out of this video!
This blend of the modules and ALL your videos are so helpful. As a 1st time DM with 1st time players, I really appreciate these tips and ideas. My grp just finished in Tresendar Manor and learned Glasstaff is at Old Owl Well.
For MORE foreshadowing, I created a note on Glasstaff’s desk to a Lord Albrek from a mysterious U. Mortus telling him to “stop playing head gangster in the mud town, and stick to the mission to find Agatha and find the answers.”
This way I can set up hints of the rising conflicts between the followers of Myrkul (now including Glasstaff) and acolytes of Talos.
I keep re-listening to this video for making more red yarn connections.
Thx again!💪😂👍
I like your take on merging the two together, very well thought out and linked. I was much lazier in my 'Dragons of Phandalin' campaign I recently completed running, I merely added the LMoP locations and story as additonal sandbox hooks and locations for the players to stumble upon when they were the appropriate level.
However all did not quite go the plan as midway through the campaign, a party member persished at the Tower of Storms, but I made a rich benefactor request they take part in an expedition to find the Lost Laboratory of Kwalish and in return he would cover the ressurection costs, so the campaign became three adventures in one, even though I never planned at the start for it to be.
Overall combining these two adventures (and maybe a third one if need be like me) is a great idea and I highly reccommend it for anyone with a little GMing experience.
Glad to know the mash-up worked well for your group! How long was your campaign?
This is my favorite combination I've seen. Thanks for putting this together, and for all your work!
I'm glad you enjoy it! This one was kind of tricky, but I'm proud of how it came out, and it's great to know you found value in it! :)
Love it love it love it! I’m 2 years into DM’ing now and all started with watching your Icespire Peak videos! Your videos never cease to amaze me! I’ve been thinking of combining these and out of the abyss as well, and glad to see this video pop into my feed while thinking of all the stuff I’ve already put together. I would have never made it this far without you, and neither would my players! Thanks so much ❤
Dude this is amazing! I’m definitely running these adventures this way thank you
Do it!! Thanks for subscribing :)
I’m watching this video over and over again to prepare my own run. Thank you for your service.
I've just acquired both of these campaigns and am going to combine them. Your ideas are great! Thanks for this.
Awesome! I’m glad you like found this useful. Feel free to check out my series on the DoIP quests if you want more ideas for those!
Hi Bob,
Your videos help me allot as a starting DM! I just bought the Lost Mine of Phandelver just because you showed me that it can be combined with the Dragon of Icespire Peak Essential set! Love this video where you bring it all together! Thanks allot! And oohw yeah. I became a member to support you during Covid-19. Cheers Herman
Awesome! Thank you for the support! Your shout out will be in next week's video!
Very natural, even when deciding which beginner set to start with I assumed this would be possible so I got both. Really nice you'd make vids on it my mate.
Thank you! Yes it seems that a lot of people had this on their minds because it did much better in the first day than my usual DoIP videos!
Man love watching your videos, even coming back to watch some of these "older" ones. You're just giving off some major Bob Ross energy, love it.
Thank you very much! :)
I am going to have to rewatch this so I can take notes. I started to combine the two for a campaign, but I want to add some of what you suggested. I love it
Fantastic video! I'm a totally new DM and trying to combine these to sets for my 5 year old daughters first adventure. This really helped give a solid framework, thanks so much!
Awesome job, this is perfect. I've been hunting for the best way to run these together with progression to Storm Lords Wrath and it looks like I've found it. Big thumbs up from a new DM
Love this video, keep coming back as I run new groups through these modules.
Wow! Just wow! I've been wanting to combine the two campaigns but had difficulty figuring out how best to do it.
This is perfect :) Thank you.
If this is your quality of work, I will definitely be signing up on Patreon with you.
Thank you so much!
Man this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you Bob!
Happy to help! :)
This is absolutely fantastic and well done. Thank you so much for doing this.
Fantastic guide. I was going to run DOIP for friend as our first time playing d&d and wondered how easy it'd be to kitbash the two modules together, this helps tremendously. I'll post an update on how it goes when we finish.
Excellent! I expect everyone who's tried this has had their campaign go in their own fun directions after getting started, so I'm excited to see what happens!
That's a really smart way to combine the two adventures! Well done!!~
Hey! Thanks for watching and commenting, Aviad :)
This is brilliant. First time DM here, and I was looking for some more strukture, or hooks for the dragon of icespire peak campaing. This combination is just what i needed.
I hope you keep posting awesome videos like these, as they are a big help!
Much appreciated! Definitely check out my DM guide series for each quest! :)
I love the idea of joining them BUT...after consulting with Fred Wheeler of 'How to D&D' he said it's a lot to have on ur mind AND to remember changes. It's just easier and funner if one just runs one at a time, straight after each other as one continuous story/campaign.
I mean, duh! It's in the same place around the same time AND meant for newer DMs! So that's what I'm gonna do!
@@fan-i-am What did you do in the end - I've bought both and although I used to RPG, about 30 years ago (CoC, WHFRP etc) I only DM'd once and was pretty poor, now I plan on DMing for my wife and daughter, I'm thinking I want simple, so Starter then essentials seems the way to go - using the premades, but all the goodies from essentials, then eventually the campagin.
Digging in! Still learning the book and preparing to run for my kinds 👍
Excellent! Depending on their age, you may want to use just DoIP for a shorter campaign with a quicker resolution, but you'll know what is best for them! Just keep it fun :D
@@BobWorldBuilder been running for them amazing tales (enjoyed it) , and now jump to this, probably big of an ask but will see, so far we build our characters (over few short sessions) , and I am running some wizard lessons to familiarise them with spel casting alse we do some combat lessons so they understand bacis rules etc... Will jump to the campaign soon can't wait! , my older is 11 she is quite in to it the younger is 8 and she has got a spel for any occasion 😂
Great compiling of the two campaigns. Good to see you also started looking into the continuing story after DoIP.
My players had pretty much finished DoIP when I had another friend interested in joining. Utilised wave echo cave as a one off to let the other player in as an introduction.
Removed the main story elements but had one of the dwarves (Norbus I think, Dazzlyn was killed by orcs in our game or vice versa) recruiting the characters (already promising the job to the new player before the rest of the party returned to town) to investigate and remove any threats inside (similar to their initial meeting) and bring back any trinkets.
Still a good dungeon crawl without the story elements.
Dungeon crawls are the name of the game! Nicely done 👍
This is so helpful. Going to run this for a new party. Also going with the latter parts aswell.
I’ve watched this video 5+ times already because this idea is fantastic, and I’m actually running it. I’m also adding In Volo’s Wake as a epilogue to these adventures, and I’m planning on tying in Ghosts of Saltmarsh too because that takes place in the nearby Mere of Dead Men and the Lizardfolk/Sahuagin conflict has a similar theme.
Man Bob, You are killin' it with your stuff. This is great approach. I have already played LMOP with my kids and we are about 5 sessions away from completing DOIP. Soon I will have completed my second small campaign book, I am thinking about switching to world build and getting away from the books. I would love to hear your theory on world building with a campaign. You and Sly Flourish are my two favorites but your more streamlined format works really well with my brain. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
Thank you! I really appreciate that. And I’m a big fan of Sly Flourish too! World building videos will be picking up more in the summer 🌍
I feel like the biggest appeal for combining these two modules other than the extra content would be having a crossover between cryovain's plotline and venomfangs. Like perhaps getting to pit them against each other or fighting them at the same time for more challenge
Brilliant outline. I’m mixing it up further by incorporating the third starter box “Shipwreck Isle” because it’s the same general area and I have no chill lol
Thanks to this I have some ideas of how to use both dragons and the cultists and lead them into the later parts of HotDQ and into RoT
Just found this video has I prepare to run LMoP. Great ideas to combine them and lead them later to Leilon. Thanks a lot.
You never let me down, Bob.
Excellent work here. I am about to start session 3 of lost mines with my group reaching Phandolin after cragmore hideout. I now need to decide how to run it ohhhh decisions 😅
There's many options -- just have fun! :)
Now you have to roll in the word obelisk.
Excellent idea to have the dwarves from the excavation be the other rockseeker brothers. I've already been combining the two sets with my kids can't follow your (frankly better!) guide to interweave the 2 but the rockseeker brothers idea will definitely fit nicely in terms of refocusing the party's main aim to find gundren (they've gotten a bit sidetracked!) Great work again dude. Thanks for the efforts you put in.
It’s awesome that you’re DMing for your kids! I’m happy to help!
New DM here. I just started running Dragon of Icespire Peak with my family, who are first time players. I'm also looking at mixing in parts of Lost Mine into the story, so there's some really good ideas in here that I think will help. One thing I will say though, I kind of feel like this approach takes a little emphasis away from the dragon itself being the big bad like he's supposed to be. In this scenario he's essentially no more important to the story than the manticore, just another random creature that got displaced by the actions of someone else.
I like the idea of dragons being the focal point, and while Cryovain's original backstory from the book still has him being displaced to get here, it has him being displaced by other, larger dragons, which is what ultimately drives him here. So the inciting incident becomes whatever force is causing the increase in dragon activity farther north.
With this in mind, I bought the Rise of Tiamat book to run as a follow up to the Icespire Peak quest. I feel like this will continue to emphasize the dragons themselves as the primary big bads, and I should be able to interweave elements from both Icespire Peak and Lost Mine, such as introducing the Zhentarim and the dragon cultists to my players.
Edit: So with all that said, here's what I've come up with so far. Still running Icespire Peak as the primary campaign, I'm introducing the Redbrands just like in Lost Mine, but the twist is I'm replacing Nezznar with Favric, the dragon cultist, as the one who has hired Glasstaff. His motivation of course is to run off any adventurers that come to town who could potentially kill the dragons in the area, which would ruin his plans as he wants to form an alliance with them to gain power and status among the cult. Having control over the town also gives him more resources. To make Favric a more challenging boss fight, his HP can be adjusted but also I plan on giving him a +1 sword (rapier maybe) that can do an extra 1d6 bonus damage of a dragon breath type. So once per long rest the wielder can focus to change the type of bonus damage between fire, cold, lightning, poison or acid, requiring attunement of course. Should make for a sweet prize for the players, and themed to boot.
Venomfang and Cryovain have a rivalry and Venomfang tries to convince the players to kill Cryovain for him, in return he'll leave Thundertree and find a new lair, since he can't leave his treasure unguarded while Cryovain is still around. Of course Venomfang has no intention of leaving and will try to kill the adventurers at some point.
Both dragons have been forced to move to this area because of the increase in dragon activity due to the events leading towards Rise of Tiamat, and they are competing for this area. Which is what is causing such a stir with all of the other monsters about. The players and the town have been caught in the middle of this and have to figure out the best way to deal with it. If successful, their exploits will have caught the attention of the council in nearby Waterdeep, who then summon them for an audience and they discover there's more to this than they initially thought.
Any other tips or ideas is appreciated! Thanks
Great video, love the ideas of combining these together. I think I need to read Storm Lords to make sure I don't forgot to drop a clue for my parties.
Thank you! Yeah, the ol' "discarded note from the ACTUAL big bad" can work really well for transitioning from DoIP to the expansion quests :)
Ha! That's just what I did. I had a note from Fheralai to Grannoc crumpled up in the Woodland Manse laboratory. I think knowing what she's up to helps the DM paint the anchorites as up to no good as opposed to just defending their turf.
Great video !! Now we need a video combining The Lost Dragon of Phandelver and Dragons of Stormwreck Isle :)
Dude. You’ve been reading my mind. As I was wonder about the Shrine, boom, new video, as I started reading Mine of Phandelver literally yesterday to combine w Dragon of IP, BOOM, perfect new video. My next thought is in how to transition from all of this to Waterdeep Dragon Heist...but hey I’m sure you’re already working on that 🤣
...uh, yes 😆 I swear, you can even go back to my “new year, new gear” video where I first mention Dragon Heist! I won’t be focusing much on transitioning to it from DoIP, but yeah my next series of DM guides (after the DoIP expansions) will be for Waterdeep DH! lol
Bob World Builder I’ll certainly be watching those, 🤣 Thanks for your videos they’re great!
Good suggestions, Much appreciated. Being a new DM (April 2020 - thanks covid) I was struggling to figure everything out. Just knew I did not like Icespire on its own. SUPER grateful you did the rundown at the end I was sweating there for a minute trying to keep up. LOL
Happy to help! I definitely recommend checking out my Icespire Peak playlist too. Many new DMs have said it was useful 😊
@@BobWorldBuilder Will do. Now if you'd just tell me how to do all of this in Wildemount. :-) I think Phadalin is becoming Alfield...
This is so good!
I only have the Essential Kit when I started DMing and thought the story was so disjointed as there is no good hook for the PCs to hunt Cryovain. I added a group of cultists that worship this dragon and sent out assassins to prevent PCs to reach the dragon. Eventually, it was revealed that the cultist's true goal is to control Cryovain (through items I created) and take over Phandalin.
They will face the corrupted dragon next week, which I powered up to close to an adult white dragon. I have to do this because they are a group of 9 level 6 PCs and base Cryovain will just get obliterated.
Very nice! Check out my Icespire Hold video where I have links to an "adolescent white dragon" I designed to toughen up Cryovain! :)
We just completed session 4. I liked your idea of combining Glass staff with the black spider. So what’s I did was have glass staff in town when the players first get there, he’s actually the quest giver for Gnomenguarde. He’s going to be killed later behind the scenes by one of the black spiders doppelgänger, which starts the building of the Redbrands in town.
Nice! I like the idea of turning a bad guy into a quest giver. Then maybe just as the party learns he was bad and try to go get him...they find him dead!
Been planning this conjunction for awhile now!
Awesome! Did you come up with a similar solution?
there's a couple combined maps of the sword coast region featuring locations from both adventures too
I used DoIP as a prequel to LMoP, and definitely used LMoP's Phandalin info as a resource for the campaign. I've introduced some of the main NPC players from LMoP into our setting to make it deeper. I avoided weaving to much since they're new and I'm rusty😅. I do love your take though!😍
Yeah, LMoP Phandalain has a LOT more detail than DoIP. I will probably be incorporating that in an upcoming videos about the NPCs of Phandalin :)
Personally I think that Umbrage hill could replace Old Owl Well to give Daran a tie to his adventuring days, dwarven excavation could give Grista something to do outside of be a grouch, and Venomfang could be an interesting character to flesh out. Perhaps instead of attacking the party, he could send them off to deal with Cryovain, who he views as a threat to his more peaceful life, with the promise, false or not, that he will leave if the party takes care of their noisy distant relative.
I also like the idea of keeping The Black Spider as the through line villain of the module, someone who might not be too intimidating but whose silver tongue has been able to recruit the goblins and orcs to his side to distract the party while he finds out more about Wave Echo Cave.
Great job!!!
Thank you! :) Glad you liked this video
There is a green dragon in phandelver. It's a young green dragon guarding a tower in one of the side quests. I think they're depicting that scene.
A year later and still helping newbs out! I'm planning on keeping venomfang in but changing the cultists from cult of dragons to Myrkul. The party would be interupting negotions between the cult and venomfang and if the party can offer a better deal ( taking out cryovain so he has no competition/new hideout) will eat the cultists instead.
"Lost Mine of Phandelver" D&D 5e with my kids (8,8, and 9):
Robert: "A DRAGON?"
Me: "well, i asked you guys 3 times if you were sure you wanted to go to the tower, or the other building first... you all wanted to skip to the tower..."
Will: "bruh... we're fine, we have plot armor"
TPK
teach your little wise-ass to say that shit out loud... LOL
This awesome Bob! I just started DMing for my son and his friends (10year olds) and after sesison one of DoIP one kid says "I got the starter set too, can we do both?" Thanks to you I was able to confidently say "Yeah dude, of course we can!"
Would love to know your thoughts on continuing this line into the follow up DoIP quests...
nice mash up for sure! im doing lost mines before icespire.Players curently just have cragmaw castle,wave echo, and thundertree. The druid gives them the quest for dragonbarrow to get a reward for slaying the dragon then thatll lead into icespire and be adjusted to go to level 7.Then the 3 follow up adventures cause honestly without those 3 follow up adventures icespire doesnt make tons of sence why things are happening and they fill in some plot holes that are much needed.
Very nice! I agree that the beginning of LMoP is a great way to start a campaign, and the DoIP follow ups are more important for the plot to actually make sense!
Hey dude. Great vid and I have ya a sub. Once I read through both books, I’ll get back to this vid
Thanks for the video! I keep coming back to this because I’m planning to run both modules like this. I was wondering, do you have some details/explanations for some bits of the video? I’m not sure how to tie everything together, especially in Part 2.
Awesome! Toward the end of Frostmaiden I will be starting a series on LMoP, and probably revisit the topic of tying it in with DoIP. For now, this video and some crossover tidbits from my DoIP series are all the content I have on it.
I love this merge
Thank you! And thanks for commenting :)
a better title could've been 'lost mines of icepire peak'
I thought about it, but this version is a *little* more about the dragon than the mine
But... if you run it this way... you do lose the dragon from the Phandelver part.
or Lost Dragon of Phandelver
I just can't leave out a young green dragon! (Venomfang)
I'm having Venomfang (female) and Cryovain (male) had come down from the north to "spread their wings" and make their own home. They're related, like half-siblings or cousins, or not.
But Venomfang is confined to Thundertree and the nearby forest. If she ventures out or shows herself too much, she'll attract the ire of Cryovain. And he's a feral hunter and very territorial, as per white dragon traits.
So she tries to convince, persuade, make a deal, with the PC's that meet her in Thundertree, to neutralize Cryovain's threat. That way she can move further away up into the mountains where he is and keep to herself. She can't take him on by herself, it's too dangerous, he's far too savage for her! (although, her HP is HIGHER than HIS!)
She may help them fight him, or not. She may renegue on the deal or honor it. Or if the PC's don't buy it, she can fight them and fly right there in Thundertree.
Either outcomes harmonize with green dragon traits.
What do ya'll think?
I think it's a cool idea to leave them both in! Definitely if you want to link to the dragon cult adventures in ToD. And I admit, green dragons are better for roleplay since they're more likely to talk with the party and try to make a deal (or trick them into a deal)!
While I've successfully run Lost Mines numerous times and icespire 1 and the current Phandelver & Below game is seeing me mix both Lost Mines and Icespire.... I do like this approach far far better than I've seen with other walkthroughs and the arrogant "do it this way or else!" tones people have taken.
I also feel that by keeping Silgar we can expand on Glasstaff character and make him develop into ultimate bbeg after dealing with Half orcs and going to waterdeep
Ok, now we gotta work in Stormwreck Isle and Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk
There's a green dragon in Thundertree, Venomfang - that's who is on the cover of the Lost Mines / Starter Set box, its not a plug for Hoard of the Dragon Queen. While thundertree *might* get skipped by some parties if they happen to get all the info they need about wave echo cave and the cragmaw castle from the various townsfolk, its still a pretty integral portion of the adventure in my experience running it several times, and offers the single largest xp boost outside of wave echo cave for the party as well. Plus what's DnD if your party can't find and fight a dragon!?
Cool combination
Thank you! I am really proud of how it came together :)
I'm thinking of combining these two as a first campaign and then do the Waterdeep Heist as a continuation and then Curse of Strahd.
Kost always ends up being the party favorite NPC in my games. Also Goblin arrows is considered to be one of the deadliest encounters in the entire module lol. Not likely to kill your party my ass. Its a theatre of the mind encounter where the goblins hide every round striking with advantage every turn.
Yeah, I’ve since realized the true danger of that starter quest! Fun but deadly
My group is already on their third quest in DoIP but I really want to combine them this way. Was thinking Harbin has them meet the caravan from Neverwinter but finds the two dead horses and completes the goblin attack. While they’re away, Phandalin is attacked by the bandits and taken over. Maybe killing Harbin to give some weight to the event? Then continuing with your layout.
Ooff Harbin Wester should have never left his house!
Thanks!!!
You’re welcome!
That looks great! One thing I miss in both campaigns is how I could give more importance to the the zhentarim/arpist characters in Phandalin and how to connect that to other campaigns. Any thread or idea? Thank you!
Great video Bob! Any idea for an alternate start to the campaign other than Rockseeker hiring them/goblin ambush? A few of my regular players have played LMoP before and while they may not remember every detail, I’d at least like to vary the start.
Again, great vid and +1 sub
Thank you!! If any are part of a faction, they could have orders to investigate news of the dragon/orcs/wererats, or simply a family member or friend who lives in Phandalin sent them a letter to come solve one of these problems the town has been dealing with. Basically, pulling something for their character background will help 👍
While I like that idea... it's really in depth. All I did with my campaign was ran Lost Mine of Phandelver and just picked and chooses quests as side quests on the job board outside the townhall. Included an election in Phandalin because of the townsfolk being tired of the townmaster hiding inn the Town hall because of the dragon. Pretty simple to combine the campaigns any way the DM wants. Highly recommend picking up the starter set and essentials kit to combine them.
Simple is pretty much always better! :) Glad to hear it worked well for your group!
Great video and concept. I'm currently trying to learn these two. Where you have both Gundren Don Jon hiring the party, is Sildar dropped out?
I'm thinking of runnig all of the boxed sets as one big adventure (including the icepire peak expansions)
I hope you run this on TH-cam soon
I love your idea, but I made a few adjust, mainly because i would love that my players get to explore every location on both modules (sorry, i'm a completitionist on videogames), and because i want them to fight both dragons.
I’m not a module kinda guy... but this makes me wanna do it lol!!
Literally, before DoIP, I only used little bits and pieces from modules! I am going to be using them more in the future, but just planting them in my own setting :) Thanks for watching and commenting, coach!
Brilliant idea and I have purchased bot sets so I can run this combo as my first DM'ing campaign - my main question and point of confusion is leveling... as both these modules are lvl 1-5, wouldn't the players outlevel some of the content or on the flipside be too weak for it?
I’m running a game with these two combined and then some. I started with only the kobold section of Sunless citadel but the dragon they agreed to find for the kobolds was still an egg which ended up being already hatched and escaped. Now Cryovain is a new threat in the area and starts accumulating power.
Also within the sunless citadel, the party went to the dragon priest tomb. I made the cultist in the sarcophagus into a half dragon instead of a troll and had him threaten the party member’s lives if they don’t bring him the blood of a dragon in 2 weeks time. Now they’re running off a clock too so they gotta pick and choose what they do wisely hehehe.
So what the party had come to the sunless citadel to get initially was a ghostly green gem - which is actually a dimensional portal spawner for the illithid, but which also taints the mind of whoever is in possession of it, having them covet it. This gem will eventually taint the mayor of phandalin and will become a reason for an orc Chief to lead an all out attack on phandalin later on if the party hasn’t stopped it somehow beforehand. It’ll be awesome to see some of the lesser illithid creatures attempt to steal this gem while the orcs are attacking - or possibly an all out war between orc and illithid with phandalin as the battleground.
Gnomenguard and wave echo cave are both areas where illithid creations are residing. Gnomengard is the one out of the two I’ve prepared for and I’m changing the threat from a mimic by making one of the gnome kings have his brains taken over by an intellect devourer, which is why the other tied him up - since he seems to be insane atm.
On the other hand, the orc side of things first relates to the guilthias tree from sunless citadel - it’s an awesome fucking tree, so I really wanted to use it somewhere. Pretty much the orcs have a Druid help them harvest the moss and plants that grow around the gulthias tree for sustenance, and the Druid is also observing its effects - wishing to bring back the forest and nature into the surrounding areas while wiping out human settlements which restrict the forest’s growth.
It’s a hodgepodge of 3 different enemy forces - The dragon/half-dragon, the illithid, and the orcs and some NPCs mixed in with their own objectives. It works especially nicely when I set the timer on them, now the party is on edge and all plot points will collide upon the end of the two weeks.
It’s going pretty well now, but lots of unexpected stuff happens - like how just last session the party of their own accord stumbled to the manor in phandalin really expecting to find something there since it was prominent on the map, and so I had to improvise since they got great rolls and am now using the red brands as a group seeking to destabilize and take over phandalin by helping the orcs launch an attack soon. Love how well these two modules can be played into one another.
That is a thorough plan! I love the inclusion of illithids. They're definitely one of my favorite D&D creatures, but I hardly ever use them. Great strategy for mixing these modules!
@@BobWorldBuilder Illithids always have this spooky aspect to them which are totally fun incorporate in moderation! Using them too much would totally ruin their appeal too, so barely using them is probably optimal anyway lol. Great videos btw!
@@ryedj707 Very true, wouldn't want to overdo it! Thank you!
Going to steal this to kick off Shattered Obelisk
This is great, thanks for the advice.
I had already run my first session before seeing this video, so now tweaking the adventure to be more inline with your suggestions. (Along with a Legend of Zelda style quest requiring multiple keys to access the mine.)
I was just wondering. If Glasstaff & Nezznar/Black Spider were combined, and defeated at Old Owl Well. What tweaks would you suggest to Wave Echo Cave for the final battle there as Nezznar/Black Spider is no more?
Thanks
Awesome! I'm glad you like it, and you have a fantastic point there. In my head the big battles should be at Icespire Hold with Cryovain and/or at the Circle of Thunder with Gorthok. Having a third potential boss battle with the humanoid enemy just felt like too much in my mind, so in that case I would keep the black spider separate and have him at WEC, then maybe drop one of the other battles. Perhaps allies of the party take out one of the others, or Cryovain is deemed to be more of an asset than an enemy (see the end of my Icespire Hold DM guide)
Bob World Builder thanks again. Will look in to Cryovain being an asset. I was just thinking if they successfully access WEC (or one of the others) there should be some fanfare to it. Maybe I could throw in some epic treasure
I think you’re right that limiting it to 2 bosses is a good idea.
Thanks again
I was planning to run a campaign where you go to all 3 starter sets, but it starts with young green dragon, adult white dragon, and gargantuan blue Dragon
Better name idea?: Delvers and Disasters
Running a modded Dragons of Stormwreck Isle, and transitioning into heavily modded versions of these two. Home brewed undead, goblins, kobolds, orcs, scaled pack/mob tactics, and keeping both dragons.
Hi Bob, this is super helpful! I am planning on running these campaigns together. I have a question for you (or anyone else)... I currently have the books for Out of the Abyss, and Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, do you have any recommendations for moving into these other campaigns? Is it a good plan to move to these campaigns after moving out of Phandelver? I also have the adventurers guide to the sword coast, and plan to add some homebrew stuff along the way. I plan to move some of the underdark stuff near the sword coast in order to keep things near waterdeep in case things go back and forth. Any input would be appriciated, Thank you!
Hey! I got your email and thank you so much for the donation. I will reply here: Between OotA and DH, OotA will make a better continuation since that book goes from level 1-13ish. DH is just a level 1-5 module and your party should definitely be beyond level 5 by the time they finish their adventures in DoIP and/or LMoP. It may be tough to get them into the whole underdark campaign, but maybe you can connect these dragons to the devils through Tiamat, the evil dragon goddess. You would obviously find more info about her in the Tyranny of Dragons campaign books, but Out of the Abyss could probably be adapted to focus more on her than Lloth (evil spider demon queen). Let me know if you have other questions!
I'm considering mashing these two campaign books with two other adventure modules to make it a truly massive sandbox.
That's awesome. A true Sword Coast sandbox!
Hey Bob (or someone),
Could you elaborate a little more on combining Shrine of Savras with Old Owl Well? I'm having trouble piecing together how those two could go together. Thanks
Rereading Old Owl Well, I think it could be better to just replace the Shrine of Savras with it, as the zombies seem more interesting than the orcs and ogres to me. My original thought was simply to connect these two places because they are both ruined courtyards; one is just much older than the other
plot twist you start running DoISP to lvl3 only to have your party stumble into the mists of barovia in the forest of Neverwinter and drop them into Curse of Strahd without warning and everyone having strangely convenient radiant damage.
Haha, Neverwinter Wood is a mysterious place! I like the idea, and maybe somehow you can tie in Strahd as having some kind of control over Cryovain or the halforc cultists
@@BobWorldBuilder or pull in Cryovain along with the party, have him kill the roc and replace that fight as he trys to claim the mountain for his own, perhaps in one ending if all cards fall the right way your final showdown with strahd involves him riding atop the white dragon...people do often complain that the final fight with Strahd is too easy lol I can see the look on the players faces. *evil DM laughter*.
side note if you dont want to fully railroad them into Barovia present the mists at one point in the wood tempt them with a scream and if they head into the myst of their own choice they find the dead body of the Burgalmaster of Barovia and his letter gripped in his dead hands, this would all be happening when the party is lvl 3 maybe 4 at most so just skip the death house and your golden.
I definitely like the version of them choosing to enter or not, and the twist of bring Cryovain into Barovia would be epic!
@@BobWorldBuilder lol just imagin the end battle if the players use the dark gift to revive Argenvost so the final fight with strahd has your players on dragon back vs strahd on his own Cryovain XD
I have a small group, so in my game I have them to side kicks. They been hired as body guards to protect a Wizard and his money handler to study the white dragon. He really wants them to kill it though because he wants to dissect it.
Nice! Very scientific!
This is awesome Bob! Just subscribed recently. Quick question -- if Gundren is found at the Hideout, and we nix the castle, does he have the map to Wave Echo Cave?
Thank you for subscribing, Nick! That's a great question. Since this set-up downplays the significance of WEC and makes Cryovain/the Anchorites the main villains, I think it would be okay if they still found that map early, but probably not at level one/two because they would definitely be out-matched!
@@BobWorldBuilder Thanks for the speedy reply Bob! That makes perfect sense. What is the importance of including Don-Jon in the intro/when you find Gundren? Where do they go when you find them at the Hideout?
Have you tried rewriting them together into one and anding them to the DM’s guild or on your patreon? It'll be useful on how you would do it.
“Yeah baby” said everyone as this video was indeed ‘groovy’
Thought I would go back and make my 2nd ever comment on YT: to say, I stole a lot of ideas and inspirations from your mashup and guides. Not only did I mash LMoP and DoIP with the DoIP-Leilon expansions, but also, bolstered by your positive can-do attitude, even Storm King's Thunder to boot.
The way you envisioned Cryovain pushing the dominoes of all the different groups moving to different locations and causing problems inspired me of how to combine SKT and the giants turbulence to explain the presence/uprising of the Talos cultists and the Ularan group (which I changed into a cell of one of SKT's antagonist groups). The Black Spider now was a mercenary enterprise hired by a couple of the antagonists from SKT...
And it kind of worked, more or less. This has been my first time running a DnD5e campaign, and we are still having sessions in this crazy LMoP-DoIP-Leilon-SKT world after a year IRL. Which is a long roundabout way of saying thanks for all the help your content has provided, Bob.
So for the quest are you saying choose one of the three options to level up, or choose these three sets of quests to get to level up?
So i know this is like a year old thread but i love the idea in this video. But is there a way i could sub out the goblins of cragmaw with Cobolds and Dragon born and if you might have some ideas on the topic.
Heya Bob! The more I look at this the more I'm getting confused. Planning to run a game combining LMOP + DOIP and I'm trying to plan everything in terms of what the players know, and what they find out as they progress. The backstory is great but if the players don't find these breadcrumbs then the story is quite weakened. I think the strength of LMOP is its strong storyline in tracking down the Black Spider so IDK if it makes sense to get rid of that.
Few things maybe yourself or anyone else could clarify!
- We meet Don Jon and Gundren at the beginning. Their motives are different, where Gundren wants to make his way to Wave Echo Cave where we fight the Black Spider, Don Jons mine was overrun by the Anchorite orcs. Gundren kind of becomes one dimensional character here. Do we just get rid of Gundrens map altogether when we combine Mountains Toe and Wave Echo? Why not just introduce Jon later and keep Sildar, he's got a lot more reason to be with the party I think.
- When the players reach Phandelver, what is the storyline and breadcrumbs? From what I gather, neither Gundren nor Don Jon know about the Anchorites. But the Redbrand wizard might? I really like the idea of both the dragon AND the black spider, I think it might make the most sense to make the Black Spider an Anchorite as well so the players can get an exposition dump. Otherwise, who's going to tell them where to go next? It's just a job board.
- At some point the players can witness the summoning of Gorthok who shifts the dragon into motion instead, or maybe they see the dragon flying overhead in the distance. Would Gorthok really scare the dragon away? From a players point of view a boar being summoned doesn't make much sense to put this big bad dragon in flight.
Though both have story threads that work well together, the issue I have is having two endgame villains (one in Wave Echo and one in Icespire Hold)--your video gives a good solution, but I wonder if Wave Echo Cave might be too big for them to deal with at Level 5.
The Starter Set already has WEC scaled for level 5, so it should be doable 👍
I was talking more in terms of the length of the encounters there since it’s a huge map. :O
Dude, dwarven excavation finishing in axelholm, The potential!
It's one BIG dungeon! Haha. There should probably be some really good treasure locked up in there though to reward the players more for what is essentially an extermination job xD
It does seem plausible that there might some connection between Excavation and Axeholm, though I'm using it very differently to weave in player backstories. Don't want to spill too much in case my players stumble across this!
I always assumed the dragon on the cover of LMoP was the green dragon from the Thunder Tree