Retired USAF Jet Mech here. Love the video. Brings back memories of many many days of detail work in the shop. Jet engine maintenance is a whole different level of mechanic work. Everything must be just so or it is no go. Very little acceptance for deviation from specs or procedures. Part of me misses that work... another larger part of me is glad I do not have to do that work anymore. Countless days going home still smelling like jet fuel wears on ones soul. Thank you for the video. Hope to see more. Work safe, work carefully, work smart, and keep them working.
@@AgentJayZ love your channel, you've taught me so much and all free of charge from the comfort of my soft desk chair. The next time I fly I'll remember and appreciate everything that goes into it! Keep up the great content!
OMG....07:47 You inserted blades 88-68-90 instead of 88-89-90! Black humor - never gets old. Sorry for that... What a great opportunity for us to have a look at those finely executed operations. Thank you!
There's something wrong with me I find these videos fascinating. Although I don't work on turbine engines I like working on my airplane, cars, motorcycles. There's lessons to be learned here about tools, organization cross-checking, general quality control that applies to all mechanical work.
*Thank you, Jay!* I *LOVE* this level of detail! While others might think this is mind numbing, you have over 100K viewers who are absolutely fascinated with it. Thanks again for all you do!
Ok, last few seconds was the icing on the cake. Thanks for showing us how it's done. I never tire of watching a pro at work as you describe in layman's terms how this amazing technology works.
I have no words for you Jay, or many praising words. Its an unbelievable task to accomplish. how the hell do they even design these things anyways?. Its absolutely mind boggling.
Just ran across your videos a day ago. I got to tell you I am absolutely hooked and can’t stop watching. I can tell you are a man who loves his work. Skills of a surgeon, patience of a saint. In a laymen’s words I understand the general theory of a jet turbine, but have gained an immense amount of knowledge into the intricacies of the finer details that make it all work. As a 40 yr veteran in HVAC and smithy, plus a fairly accomplished fine carpenter, I’m can really appreciate your skill set and overall mindset of perfection. Not a business for hamfisted bulls in a china closet. As a child well into adulthood I was privileged to have a father who was a private pilot for 30+ years which grew my love of aviation. That and living in Wichita Kansas, I’m surrounded by many friends and neighbors who are in the aviation industry. My neighbor next door was a B1 pilot and the neighbor across the street is a certified aviation power plant mechanic, plus my nephew is a F18 pilot. My own son worked on Citations at Cessna. On my trip to DC my first stop was the Aero Space Museum. I never grow tired of learning, so thank you for sharing your videos.
Nickel is magnetic too. Some alloys of stainless steel are not magnetic, it's not the iron content, it's the crystalline structure of the metal that makes it magnetic. Austenitic steel is not magnetic.
i was scanning before i made a similar comment. this would be my vote; same alloy but a heat treatment process resulted in a crystalline lattice structure boundary layer.
@@LogicallyCompromised Nevertheless, the disc and its shaft are supplied as a single unit: as you will see in my other comments, I've checked on this and, when you look closely at the complete turbine rotor, that becomes fairly obvious. However, I think it highly unlikely that the disc/shaft unit is a one-piece forging, which would be extremely difficult to manufacture and horrendously expensive. My very tentative conclusion is that the bi-metallic feature is part of the joining process ..... and it still puzzles me.
The problem with stainless steel is the steel. Iron has a comparatively low melting point, and although you can change that by alloying it with other materials, you're better off to go with different material altogether. The other problem with steel of any kind is creep. All that said, they do totally make turbine blades out of stainless steel. Go figure. =P lol
I'm enjoying each series of videos on each of the engines and their various overhaul processes. They're more meaningful than videos that show a snippet of the overall process.
This is so cool! I am going to ERAU to become an Aviation Maintenance Technician and I am so glad that I discovered your channel today so I am a step ahead for college!
Thank you, I’m studying mechanical engineering with a concentration in Aeronautics (mostly) and Aerospace in a university that is sadly not certified under the FAA, so I’ll be doing design work (CAD) and what not. I could swear that watching your videos gives me life and keeps me motivated, wish we could get exposed to this type of training!
Too bad about the copy rights, I could see letting the work play out in real time while the album ticks away in the background :) Pink Floyd DSOM while assembling a jet engine... glad you have been so blessed.
What gets me is how good condition these engines are - it looks pretty much new but as far as I know these have not been produced since the 50's (wiki says 1956).
A little bit of trivia from Wikipedia on the Canadair Sabre. In 1952, Jacqueline Cochran, then aged 47, decided to challenge the world speed record for women, then held by Jacqueline Auriol. She tried to borrow an F-86 from the U.S. Air Force, but was refused. She was introduced to an Air Vice-Marshal of the RCAF who, with the permission of the Canadian Minister of Defence, arranged for her to borrow 19200, the sole Sabre 3. Canadair sent a 16-man support team to California for the attempt. On 18 May 1953, Ms. Cochran set a new 100 km speed record of 1,050.15 km/h (652.5 mph). Later on 3 June, she set a new 15 km closed circuit record of 1078 km/h (670 mph). While she was in California, she exceeded 1270 km/h in a dive, and thus became the first woman to exceed the speed of sound.
Magnetic properties of nickel steel depends on heat treatment / forging process. So the disc may be single material, just processed differently in different parts.
I have a theory that this engine is really into your music too... you're rejuvenating it and making it young again and it shows. I wonder what the people who first put it together listened to. Good video, thanks!
Before you even played the music at the end I was thinking that "Time" would make a great soundtrack for this task. Great minds think a like I guess! Good job!
It’s not a lack of iron that makes some stainless steels non-magnetic. 304 still has a high percentage of iron but it’s atoms are arranged in a way that reduce their magnetic attraction. It’s austenitic rather than ferritic stainless steel.
really love your videos man. Just one thing though, the magnetic properties dont depend that much on the metals that make up th material, it really depends on the arrengement of the atoms, that way, by saying that the inner part has more iron because it is more attracted by the magnet may not be always correct!
Your videos are awesome my friend，I am a jet engine lover and its great to see you operating them. Maybe you can make some time-lapse videos to show the disassemble or assemble process of a jet engine.😊
quick question (im sure you answered this in one of your many videos), if the pin is not easily removable how do you get the blades out? do you force the blade out and destroy internal pin?
"We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control ..... " Well, some of us do, AgentJayZ - and I still want to learn more about that turbine disc.
That was stressful! I've snapped bolts on my Moto engine a few times over the years and just backing those bolts out creates anxiety. Being 100% is just that. 100%. Sigma 6 doesn't work here. Thanks for the great video!
No mistakes were made in this video. The haters should watch it. Trying to rethink a process specified by the manufacturer is why they don't work on jet engines, or anything for that matter.
I understand the blades are weighed individually for balancing,but are the locking pins weighed also or are they produced close enough to the same as each other as to not matter that much? Just found your channel and I am very fascinated, can’t wait to watch more of your videos THANK YOU for supplying informational content.
I would think since the pin is so light relative to the blade that the unevenness in weight is so minute it really doesn't matter at all. For example let's say the blades have a 1% weight tolerance. In a 200gr blade that would be 2 grams between the heaviest and lightest blade. That is a significant weight difference. But let's assume the pins are less carefully made and have a weight tolerance of 5%. Still if the pins average weight is 2 grams that would be 0.1 gr between heaviest and lightest pin. (keep in mind that would be the most extreme difference possible) 0.1 gr is the resolution used to weigh the blades themselves. So the average variation in weight of the pins, is less that what you would care to measure anyway and thus can be considered zero. So for all intents and purposes, pins are all the same (as jay said)
Austerity transformation in the Nickle alloy. Nickle is an austinite stabilizer. Austinite is nonmagnetic. There's a phase change in the alloy. Cool but still same material
The tape and markers concern me somewhat, I worked for a company that manufactured pitot tubes from nickel. We found that residue from tape adhesive and marker ink could lead to embrittlement and cracking when the heaters in the tubes were left on sitting on the ground. Even though the tubes were cleaned before installation. Without air flow of flight, the temperatures would get high enough to lead to the problems. Turbine blades certainly get hotter than any pitot tube. I suppose you would know if one of your engines failed but it is a bit unnerving. Great video as always! I love this stuff and your explanations.
Hello AgentJayZ I just started watching your videos. I enjoy them immensely!!!!! My oldest son graduated from BCIT AME course. He wanted to become an airline pilot. (His lifelong dream since I can remember) but we found out he was colour blind! He ended up trying the next best thing, AME. But...it didn’t work out. Basically a huge wage gap between what he is doing now to what ‘might have been his potential’. In any case... I live in Chilliwack and own a 10 bay automobile repair facility and appreciate all your efforts in producing these videos. One day I would love to acquire some engines parts to make some type of unique gift for my son. If you think you can help, please let me know. Thanks again for your impressive efforts!
Being able to read, understand, and follow procedures is the most important thing that was emphasized in both jet training school, and in my evaluation for service as "agent"...
That bi-metallic turbine disc fascinates, even horrifies me. The integrity of the circumferential joint between the inner and outer portions of the disc must be of the highest order, otherwise a disc burst failure would be almost inevitable. I've explained in the past that there's a concept known as the 'free ring radius, or 'free hoop diameter' in the design of a turbine (or compressor) disc. At a given speed, the material of the disc inside that radius is effectively providing the centripetal force to retain all of the material outside that radius and, the higher the rotational speed, the smaller the radius. Put another way, if the material inside the radius was suddenly disconnected circumferentially from the material outside the radius, then the outer ring would dilate and burst almost instantaneously. So, AgentJayZ, do you have any information on the manufacturing process for that disc?
@@zapfanzapfan I'm still fascinated and horrified, but now I'm also getting suspicious and curious. The junction or interface between the two materials is not uniformly circular, which it should be, if the disc had been formed with an insert into an outer ring. In any case, having thought about this further, I doubt that, back in the 1940s, there would have been any manufacturing technology anywhere near good enough to produce the required high integrity joint, even for a low life disc. I'm now wondering whether the magnetic material is a 'laminated' reinforcement onto the the rear face of the disc. Even so, I'm still horrified by both the irregularity of the boundary between the two materials and the surface finish of the magnetic material. Could it be some form of metal spray or weld deposition, possibly for repair and salvage reasons? Any disc that I've ever been involved with would have been rejected immediately with that standard of surface finish. In most cases, a scratch that could be detected by a fingernail would be cause for rejection. In terms of the relative strengths of the two materials, I can't answer that authoritatively, not knowing what the materials are and their specifications. However, I would have expected one of the early nickel-based alloys of the day to have a relatively higher strength at operating temperature than the available steel alloys. In terms of cost, any potential cost saving from using two materials would, I believe, have been totally nullified by the process and manufacturing costs of joining them. I'm hoping that AgentJayZ can shed some more light on this.
I'm very curious how that is manufactured as well. Your mention of the 'free ring radius', (we call it the 'self supporting' radius or diameter, SSR) made me take a slightly deeper look. I'm guessing from JayZ's magnet test the hub section is a 400 series stainless, a ferritic stainless steel that's slightly magnetic and the outer ring is probably IN718, a pretty common disc material. The SSR for annealed 410SS at 8000 RPM would be almost 9 inches. As 410 can be heat treated to much higher strength levels and 718 is even stronger I'd say the joint is well within the SSR for either material. Also, the stress across the disc joint won't be very large. In spinning discs it the hoop stress that's the big one. Radial stresses are generally less important for the disc than for the blade roots. That being the case I'm still fascinated how it was manufactured. Is it welded, friction, TIG or EB? Is the hub cast in place? I don't believe it's just an interference fit as that would always show cracks at the seam. Thanks for your videos AgentJayZ. They're almost always fascinating.
@@yabojabo8578 Starting with your last comments first, you are thinking in terms of manufacturing processes that hadn't even been thought of in the mid/late 1940s, apart from the 'conventional' welding processes of the day. Henry Wiggin at Hereford, here in the UK, were certainly well advanced with the development of their range of Inco alloys in the late 1940s, before Special Metals took on the range. However, my recollection is that IN718 is more recent than that and, In any case, would the UK government have allowed the technology transfer (they might, considering they allowed GE to have a Whittle engine in 1942)? As a designer (now long retired), I wouldn't have dreamt of trying even a modern EBW process in joining the inner and outer portions of a bi-metallic disc of that size: in any case, the thickness of the disc would probably preclude it. There was also limited understanding of the optimum grain flow requirements in a disc forging back in the 1940s and more than a few engines 'threw' turbine discs as a result. Even as late as the 1970s, R-R lost a few RB211 fan discs, not to mention a couple of HP turbine discs, because of forging problems. You may well be right about the free ring radius/SSR issue, but the fundamental problem remains that any joint in the body of the disc would disrupt the integrity of the disc. There would be no continuity of the forged grain structure and any fusion process would result in a localised 'as cast' structure, with a heat affected zone. I am more and more uncomfortable with the idea of a bi-metallic disc formed from inner and outer rings and I am increasingly suspicious of the irregularity of the 'junction' between the two materials, which suggests to me that it represents material added to the face of the disc. OK, I could be wrong, but .....
@@grahamj9101I agree with everything your saying. I'm a turbine design engineer as well and I would never feel comfortable with a bi-metallic or 2 piece disc like that. That's why I'm fascinated by it. I'm pretty sure the disc JayZ is working with is not original. I'd assume the turbine discs and blades are all upgraded materials from the 1947 originals. The original blades were probably steel alloys with very little life even at relatively low firing temperatures. But that's all beside the point. Could it be that the disc is actually a single part/alloy and there is some processing difference of the center hub vs. outer hub that results in the different magnetism? I've had cold worked austenitic stainless parts that were slightly magnetic as a result of the cold work while machined parts from the same billet weren't. Perhaps the inner hub is as forged and the outer hub was forged with stock on and was then machined to size. That would explain the irregular transition from one section to the other. Very curious.
It's weird seeing these blades out side of the shop I work at. If I had to guess on the materials of the disk I'd almost say that its 2 different grades of Stainless Steel.
Hahahahaha you gotta be kidding me! I was listening to the same song and on the end of the video it doubled up I thougth I was trippin' !!! hahahaha XD AWESOME!!!!
I know this is a "why-question" that someone decided more than 70 years ago but do you know why the turbine disc is made from two different alloys? Cost? Weight? Manufacturing process?
If you actually look at the equations for gas turbine engines, you'd see that as you increase stagnation temperature in the turbine, the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine also increases. But obviously this temperature is limited by the materials you use. So engineers had to find clever ways of alloying materials or cooling the blades to allow higher temperatures.
Great video! So to remove the blades, you remove the shaft from the engine and then hammer the blades towards the rear which shears the pin then you obviously hit the pin through.?
Very exacting and tedious with no mistake recovery. I hope you have limited control on your job deadlines. I would hate to do this under back to back down to the last 15 minute rushed absolute must meet deadlines.
It was designed and manufactured long before the friction bonding process was developed. As I've said in my conversation with Mr yabo jabo, I'm puzzled by what I see.
@AgentJayZ Listening to Pink Floyd, no wonder you are a jet engines engineer! 👍 Where are the magnets, where is the prism? Thanks for your great videos!
I must say. I am impressed by your meticulously methodical approach in handling this piece of engineering beauty. Multiple questions arise, such as: 1.) I wonder what the weight of those fins are (individually..and total). 2.) Also..silly question but..do you plan on cleaning your number markers or leaving those on there? Would they affect the balance or something? (I realise it's micrograms in weight..so I assume no balance issues compared to the weight of those fins but can't help but ask?) 3.) Are you gonna ask your boss for a raise? =)
Retired USAF Jet Mech here.
Love the video. Brings back memories of many many days of detail work in the shop.
Jet engine maintenance is a whole different level of mechanic work. Everything must be just so or it is no go. Very little acceptance for deviation from specs or procedures.
Part of me misses that work... another larger part of me is glad I do not have to do that work anymore.
Countless days going home still smelling like jet fuel wears on ones soul.
Thank you for the video. Hope to see more. Work safe, work carefully, work smart, and keep them working.
Your experience is respected. Welcome to Jet City!
Content like this is exactly why youtube is so amazing. The internet is the revolution.
Thanks! Welcome to Jet City.
@@AgentJayZ love your channel, you've taught me so much and all free of charge from the comfort of my soft desk chair. The next time I fly I'll remember and appreciate everything that goes into it! Keep up the great content!
OMG....07:47
You inserted blades 88-68-90 instead of 88-89-90!
Black humor - never gets old. Sorry for that...
What a great opportunity for us to have a look at those finely executed operations. Thank you!
I see that he puts a line under numbers so they can't be inverted :)
Yeah, tried to put the timing close enough so that it cannot be easily spotted. You eagle eye :P
Excellent taste in music, sir.
Indeed.
There's something wrong with me I find these videos fascinating. Although I don't work on turbine engines I like working on my airplane, cars, motorcycles. There's lessons to be learned here about tools, organization cross-checking, general quality control that applies to all mechanical work.
*Thank you, Jay!* I *LOVE* this level of detail! While others might think this is mind numbing, you have over 100K viewers who are absolutely fascinated with it. Thanks again for all you do!
Legend has it he is still finding anti seize smudges in random places.
I'd prefer that to the smudges you're finding...
Ok, last few seconds was the icing on the cake. Thanks for showing us how it's done. I never tire of watching a pro at work as you describe in layman's terms how this amazing technology works.
I have no words for you Jay, or many praising words. Its an unbelievable task to accomplish. how the hell do they even design these things anyways?. Its absolutely mind boggling.
When you make perfection look easy you know it's not. Great vid.
The turbine rotor disk has a Timken 16-25-6 alloy rim TIG welded to an AMS 4340 steel hub to provide higher strength at the flowpath.
Just ran across your videos a day ago. I got to tell you I am absolutely hooked and can’t stop watching. I can tell you are a man who loves his work. Skills of a surgeon, patience of a saint. In a laymen’s words I understand the general theory of a jet turbine, but have gained an immense amount of knowledge into the intricacies of the finer details that make it all work. As a 40 yr veteran in HVAC and smithy, plus a fairly accomplished fine carpenter, I’m can really appreciate your skill set and overall mindset of perfection. Not a business for hamfisted bulls in a china closet.
As a child well into adulthood I was privileged to have a father who was a private pilot for 30+ years which grew my love of aviation. That and living in Wichita Kansas, I’m surrounded by many friends and neighbors who are in the aviation industry. My neighbor next door was a B1 pilot and the neighbor across the street is a certified aviation power plant mechanic, plus my nephew is a F18 pilot. My own son worked on Citations at Cessna. On my trip to DC my first stop was the Aero Space Museum. I never grow tired of learning, so thank you for sharing your videos.
The algorithm did me a solid on this one
hell I wouldn't even know what to search for
You've got yourself a new stalker
Nickel is magnetic too. Some alloys of stainless steel are not magnetic, it's not the iron content, it's the crystalline structure of the metal that makes it magnetic. Austenitic steel is not magnetic.
i was scanning before i made a similar comment. this would be my vote; same alloy but a heat treatment process resulted in a crystalline lattice structure boundary layer.
@@LogicallyCompromised Nevertheless, the disc and its shaft are supplied as a single unit: as you will see in my other comments, I've checked on this and, when you look closely at the complete turbine rotor, that becomes fairly obvious.
However, I think it highly unlikely that the disc/shaft unit is a one-piece forging, which would be extremely difficult to manufacture and horrendously expensive. My very tentative conclusion is that the bi-metallic feature is part of the joining process ..... and it still puzzles me.
@@grahamj9101 The turbine rotor disk has a Timken 16-25-6 alloy rim TIG welded to an AMS 4340 steel hub to provide higher strength at the flowpath.
The problem with stainless steel is the steel. Iron has a comparatively low melting point, and although you can change that by alloying it with other materials, you're better off to go with different material altogether. The other problem with steel of any kind is creep. All that said, they do totally make turbine blades out of stainless steel. Go figure. =P lol
Austenitic steel is also just one step away from molten steel. ;) Hot metal goop in your turbine blades is not ideal. lol
I'm enjoying each series of videos on each of the engines and their various overhaul processes. They're more meaningful than videos that show a snippet of the overall process.
Your videos are great! "No sticky. Sticky. No sticky. Sticky." You're educational and entertaining. Thank you!
Watching a screaming turbojet doing its thing, It's amazing that all the hot gas has to pass through these narrow passages between the guide vanes.
Pink Floyd is always great when working
hell yea
The pins setting the blades on the final tap was oddly satisfying. :)
This is so cool! I am going to ERAU to become an Aviation Maintenance Technician and I am so glad that I discovered your channel today so I am a step ahead for college!
I used to come here for the knowledge, now I just can't stop thinking about the Boss. One of the cuteste dogs I've seen
I’m getting my A&P license in April so glad I found your channel ! Love seeing stuff like this so I can use out in the field
good stuff good stuff!
the real mechanics do sheet metal ;)
this is actually a really good channel i just found it myself.
It's a craft and JayZ has mastered it. No one better to learn from than a master.
imagine having an apprenticeship with this guy. would be awesome.
Thank you, I’m studying mechanical engineering with a concentration in Aeronautics (mostly) and Aerospace in a university that is sadly not certified under the FAA, so I’ll be doing design work (CAD) and what not.
I could swear that watching your videos gives me life and keeps me motivated, wish we could get exposed to this type of training!
Too bad about the copy rights, I could see letting the work play out in real time while the album ticks away in the background :)
Pink Floyd DSOM while assembling a jet engine... glad you have been so blessed.
Pink Floyd is the best soundtrack for life
What gets me is how good condition these engines are - it looks pretty much new but as far as I know these have not been produced since the 50's (wiki says 1956).
A little bit of trivia from Wikipedia on the Canadair Sabre. In 1952, Jacqueline Cochran, then aged 47, decided to challenge the world speed record for women, then held by Jacqueline Auriol. She tried to borrow an F-86 from the U.S. Air Force, but was refused. She was introduced to an Air Vice-Marshal of the RCAF who, with the permission of the Canadian Minister of Defence, arranged for her to borrow 19200, the sole Sabre 3. Canadair sent a 16-man support team to California for the attempt. On 18 May 1953, Ms. Cochran set a new 100 km speed record of 1,050.15 km/h (652.5 mph). Later on 3 June, she set a new 15 km closed circuit record of 1078 km/h (670 mph). While she was in California, she exceeded 1270 km/h in a dive, and thus became the first woman to exceed the speed of sound.
That roll pin punch is a lifesaver
The boss is very happy and satisfied !
Pink Floyd was the best music to do this job well !!!!
Drive in 1 pin = 1 big sip of beer. Repeat until run out of pins or beer.
This process step is taken directly from GE Gas Turbine rebuild manual in the electrical generation Thermal Power Division.
It's also described and illustrated with photographs in the GE J47 overhaul manual.
Floyd action! The perfect working music, although a little Black Sabbath isn't bad either. Can't wait to see that engine in the test cell.
Magnetic properties of nickel steel depends on heat treatment / forging process. So the disc may be single material, just processed differently in different parts.
I have a theory that this engine is really into your music too... you're rejuvenating it and making it young again and it shows. I wonder what the people who first put it together listened to. Good video, thanks!
Early 1950's so would that have been Elvis, or before?
Jet engine inspection 101: step one, look for cracks between the sticky/no sticky
You make it look so easy, I can't tie my shoelaces 96 times 100% same exact way.
You're smacking a pin into a hole 96 times, be organized and focused. ez
this is fascinating, nice work.
great music choice to listen to while working
Pink Floyd and engine building! Can I come work for you?.....
Good music choice. It’s what I would be playing!
Before you even played the music at the end I was thinking that "Time" would make a great soundtrack for this task. Great minds think a like I guess! Good job!
I love these hands on video's
Why the hell am I here? I'm watching a Canadian rebuild a jet engine?! How did I get here?
Damn rights! As always, there's a money back guarantee.
Thank you; come again!
@@AgentJayZ make your own jetsuit.
Thanks Dr. Evil
Listening to the best music at the correct volume for blade & roll pin installation :-)
It’s not a lack of iron that makes some stainless steels non-magnetic. 304 still has a high percentage of iron but it’s atoms are arranged in a way that reduce their magnetic attraction. It’s austenitic rather than ferritic stainless steel.
really love your videos man. Just one thing though, the magnetic properties dont depend that much on the metals that make up th material, it really depends on the arrengement of the atoms, that way, by saying that the inner part has more iron because it is more attracted by the magnet may not be always correct!
Aluminum, Copper.
Oh my goodness the boss is adorable your videos need to include the boss much more
I like how the pin sets the final placement of the blade.
Your videos are awesome my friend，I am a jet engine lover and its great to see you operating them. Maybe you can make some time-lapse videos to show the disassemble or assemble process of a jet engine.😊
parallax error.. i finally have the word for when i refill the wrong soda from the fountain lol
How did he remove the pins to remove the blades?
This video is part of a playlist.
Yay we reviewed the parallex error
Im sure I heard "Im Fixing a hole where the rain gets in and stops my mind from wondering" from with in the heart of the beast.
quick question (im sure you answered this in one of your many videos), if the pin is not easily removable how do you get the blades out? do you force the blade out and destroy internal pin?
You're right!
"We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control ..... " Well, some of us do, AgentJayZ - and I still want to learn more about that turbine disc.
F86 in yellow on chrome is the most beautiful aircraft ever.
From what I understand the outer portion of the turbinewheel is an inconel alloy and the inner shaft is a 300 series stainless.
That was stressful! I've snapped bolts on my Moto engine a few times over the years and just backing those bolts out creates anxiety. Being 100% is just that. 100%. Sigma 6 doesn't work here. Thanks for the great video!
Funny. I imagined PF in the background. Well done!
People really giving him shit for "making mistakes"?
No mistakes were made in this video. The haters should watch it.
Trying to rethink a process specified by the manufacturer is why they don't work on jet engines, or anything for that matter.
@@AgentJayZ - Dunning Kruger comes to mind.
probably a good practice to index the split on the roll pin to the 3 or 9 o'clock position to ensure equal pin to blade interface.
Better practice is to follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter.
At least you didn't have to play 96 tears!
I understand the blades are weighed individually for balancing,but are the locking pins weighed also or are they produced close enough to the same as each other as to not matter that much?
Just found your channel and I am very fascinated, can’t wait to watch more of your videos THANK YOU for supplying informational content.
From my experiences, the pins are all very close tolerance in terms of weight and shape. It is easier to make the pins all the same versus the blades.
I don't know if it's easier or not. What do I know? Pins are all the same, blades aren't. How do I know this? measured 'em!
I would think since the pin is so light relative to the blade that the unevenness in weight is so minute it really doesn't matter at all.
For example let's say the blades have a 1% weight tolerance. In a 200gr blade that would be 2 grams between the heaviest and lightest blade. That is a significant weight difference.
But let's assume the pins are less carefully made and have a weight tolerance of 5%. Still if the pins average weight is 2 grams that would be 0.1 gr between heaviest and lightest pin. (keep in mind that would be the most extreme difference possible)
0.1 gr is the resolution used to weigh the blades themselves. So the average variation in weight of the pins, is less that what you would care to measure anyway and thus can be considered zero.
So for all intents and purposes, pins are all the same (as jay said)
Austerity transformation in the Nickle alloy. Nickle is an austinite stabilizer. Austinite is nonmagnetic. There's a phase change in the alloy. Cool but still same material
Austenite
The tape and markers concern me somewhat, I worked for a company that manufactured pitot tubes from nickel. We found that residue from tape adhesive and marker ink could lead to embrittlement and cracking when the heaters in the tubes were left on sitting on the ground. Even though the tubes were cleaned before installation. Without air flow of flight, the temperatures would get high enough to lead to the problems. Turbine blades certainly get hotter than any pitot tube. I suppose you would know if one of your engines failed but it is a bit unnerving. Great video as always! I love this stuff and your explanations.
They're ceramic coated. The blades will see high temps so I doubt it matters as any residue will be quickly burned off.
well you should. we use tested tapes and markers and you shouldn't touch it without clean gloves either.
Should is a bad word, but it can sometimes be useful. Example, you should listen to the dinosaur, because he is right.
Very interesting.
How about a few over size holes for those roll pins? And how do they come out??
Check out the first episode of this series of videos.
Hello AgentJayZ
I just started watching your videos. I enjoy them immensely!!!!!
My oldest son graduated from BCIT AME course. He wanted to become an airline pilot. (His lifelong dream since I can remember) but we found out he was colour blind! He ended up trying the next best thing, AME. But...it didn’t work out.
Basically a huge wage gap between what he is doing now to what ‘might have been his potential’.
In any case... I live in Chilliwack and own a 10 bay automobile repair facility and appreciate all your efforts in producing these videos.
One day I would love to acquire some engines parts to make some type of unique gift for my son. If you think you can help, please let me know.
Thanks again for your impressive efforts!
Sir thank you very much for your awesome videos of turbojet engines
I'd like to work like that listening to Pink Floyd :D
I built an Ikea TV stand today. That's basically the same thing, right?
Being able to read, understand, and follow procedures is the most important thing that was emphasized in both jet training school, and in my evaluation for service as "agent"...
Just so happens Pandora was paying 'That's the way boys are by Lesley Gore'
A real Oldie but Goody. Thanks
Love the background music!
This is oddly satisfying, like those ice chewing videos my gf binge watches.
I once heard from a psychologist that chewing ice, represents sexual tension/frustration. But those people always make weird stuff up.
8:55 I swear I thought something broke on that jump cut lmao
Very interesting. Also, great music choice :)
That bi-metallic turbine disc fascinates, even horrifies me. The integrity of the circumferential joint between the inner and outer portions of the disc must be of the highest order, otherwise a disc burst failure would be almost inevitable. I've explained in the past that there's a concept known as the 'free ring radius, or 'free hoop diameter' in the design of a turbine (or compressor) disc.
At a given speed, the material of the disc inside that radius is effectively providing the centripetal force to retain all of the material outside that radius and, the higher the rotational speed, the smaller the radius. Put another way, if the material inside the radius was suddenly disconnected circumferentially from the material outside the radius, then the outer ring would dilate and burst almost instantaneously.
So, AgentJayZ, do you have any information on the manufacturing process for that disc?
I was wondering about that disk too. Is the steel stronger than the nickel alloy? Is the steel cheaper? Was this somehow easier to manufacture?
@@zapfanzapfan I'm still fascinated and horrified, but now I'm also getting suspicious and curious. The junction or interface between the two materials is not uniformly circular, which it should be, if the disc had been formed with an insert into an outer ring. In any case, having thought about this further, I doubt that, back in the 1940s, there would have been any manufacturing technology anywhere near good enough to produce the required high integrity joint, even for a low life disc.
I'm now wondering whether the magnetic material is a 'laminated' reinforcement onto the the rear face of the disc. Even so, I'm still horrified by both the irregularity of the boundary between the two materials and the surface finish of the magnetic material. Could it be some form of metal spray or weld deposition, possibly for repair and salvage reasons? Any disc that I've ever been involved with would have been rejected immediately with that standard of surface finish. In most cases, a scratch that could be detected by a fingernail would be cause for rejection.
In terms of the relative strengths of the two materials, I can't answer that authoritatively, not knowing what the materials are and their specifications. However, I would have expected one of the early nickel-based alloys of the day to have a relatively higher strength at operating temperature than the available steel alloys. In terms of cost, any potential cost saving from using two materials would, I believe, have been totally nullified by the process and manufacturing costs of joining them.
I'm hoping that AgentJayZ can shed some more light on this.
I'm very curious how that is manufactured as well. Your mention of the 'free ring radius', (we call it the 'self supporting' radius or diameter, SSR) made me take a slightly deeper look. I'm guessing from JayZ's magnet test the hub section is a 400 series stainless, a ferritic stainless steel that's slightly magnetic and the outer ring is probably IN718, a pretty common disc material. The SSR for annealed 410SS at 8000 RPM would be almost 9 inches. As 410 can be heat treated to much higher strength levels and 718 is even stronger I'd say the joint is well within the SSR for either material. Also, the stress across the disc joint won't be very large. In spinning discs it the hoop stress that's the big one. Radial stresses are generally less important for the disc than for the blade roots.
That being the case I'm still fascinated how it was manufactured. Is it welded, friction, TIG or EB? Is the hub cast in place? I don't believe it's just an interference fit as that would always show cracks at the seam.
Thanks for your videos AgentJayZ. They're almost always fascinating.
@@yabojabo8578 Starting with your last comments first, you are thinking in terms of manufacturing processes that hadn't even been thought of in the mid/late 1940s, apart from the 'conventional' welding processes of the day. Henry Wiggin at Hereford, here in the UK, were certainly well advanced with the development of their range of Inco alloys in the late 1940s, before Special Metals took on the range. However, my recollection is that IN718 is more recent than that and, In any case, would the UK government have allowed the technology transfer (they might, considering they allowed GE to have a Whittle engine in 1942)?
As a designer (now long retired), I wouldn't have dreamt of trying even a modern EBW process in joining the inner and outer portions of a bi-metallic disc of that size: in any case, the thickness of the disc would probably preclude it. There was also limited understanding of the optimum grain flow requirements in a disc forging back in the 1940s and more than a few engines 'threw' turbine discs as a result. Even as late as the 1970s, R-R lost a few RB211 fan discs, not to mention a couple of HP turbine discs, because of forging problems.
You may well be right about the free ring radius/SSR issue, but the fundamental problem remains that any joint in the body of the disc would disrupt the integrity of the disc. There would be no continuity of the forged grain structure and any fusion process would result in a localised 'as cast' structure, with a heat affected zone.
I am more and more uncomfortable with the idea of a bi-metallic disc formed from inner and outer rings and I am increasingly suspicious of the irregularity of the 'junction' between the two materials, which suggests to me that it represents material added to the face of the disc.
OK, I could be wrong, but .....
@@grahamj9101I agree with everything your saying. I'm a turbine design engineer as well and I would never feel comfortable with a bi-metallic or 2 piece disc like that. That's why I'm fascinated by it. I'm pretty sure the disc JayZ is working with is not original. I'd assume the turbine discs and blades are all upgraded materials from the 1947 originals. The original blades were probably steel alloys with very little life even at relatively low firing temperatures. But that's all beside the point. Could it be that the disc is actually a single part/alloy and there is some processing difference of the center hub vs. outer hub that results in the different magnetism? I've had cold worked austenitic stainless parts that were slightly magnetic as a result of the cold work while machined parts from the same billet weren't. Perhaps the inner hub is as forged and the outer hub was forged with stock on and was then machined to size. That would explain the irregular transition from one section to the other. Very curious.
Damn good choice of music sir.
It's weird seeing these blades out side of the shop I work at. If I had to guess on the materials of the disk I'd almost say that its 2 different grades of Stainless Steel.
this is satisfying as hell
Hahahahaha you gotta be kidding me! I was listening to the same song and on the end of the video it doubled up I thougth I was trippin' !!! hahahaha XD AWESOME!!!!
I know this is a "why-question" that someone decided more than 70 years ago but do you know why the turbine disc is made from two different alloys? Cost? Weight? Manufacturing process?
I'm wondering this myself, but I think it might be weight and/or heat resistance or even thermal expansion.
If you actually look at the equations for gas turbine engines, you'd see that as you increase stagnation temperature in the turbine, the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine also increases. But obviously this temperature is limited by the materials you use. So engineers had to find clever ways of alloying materials or cooling the blades to allow higher temperatures.
Please see my comments on this topic.
outstanding job!
Great video!
So to remove the blades, you remove the shaft from the engine and then hammer the blades towards the rear which shears the pin then you obviously hit the pin through.?
Very exacting and tedious with no mistake recovery. I hope you have limited control on your job deadlines. I would hate to do this under back to back down to the last 15 minute rushed absolute must meet deadlines.
I am lucky to be able to take my time to do this job.
Friction weld for the turbine disk?
It was designed and manufactured long before the friction bonding process was developed. As I've said in my conversation with Mr yabo jabo, I'm puzzled by what I see.
omg epic stretch at 12:25.
Are you sure that's not the same steel, just effectively heat treated differently from all the thermal cycling?
The manual refers to the discontinuity as the transition zone.
Nice music at the end boss
No sticky Sticky
lol this dude is just a badass.
And I thought it was nerve racking to drive one little roll pin into my AR-15 lower or upper!
th-cam.com/video/8-6YW81-T4o/w-d-xo.html
Are those roll pins anything special or just standard spring steel?
@AgentJayZ Listening to Pink Floyd, no wonder you are a jet engines engineer! 👍 Where are the magnets, where is the prism? Thanks for your great videos!
1:10 There is non magnetic steel. But that part could be inconel.
Exactly what I was thinking.
It's made of Timken 16-25-6 alloy.
Some timelapse footage when performing the long procedure installing the blades would be nice
I love TH-cam opportunities
Really great ideas
I must say.
I am impressed by your meticulously methodical approach in handling this piece of engineering beauty.
Multiple questions arise, such as:
1.) I wonder what the weight of those fins are (individually..and total).
2.) Also..silly question but..do you plan on cleaning your number markers or leaving those on there? Would they affect the balance or something? (I realise it's micrograms in weight..so I assume no balance issues compared to the weight of those fins but can't help but ask?)
3.) Are you gonna ask your boss for a raise?
=)
Individual blades weights are written on them.
The smallest weight difference we can effect is 0.1gram.
I am the boss.
@@AgentJayZ I thought the boss was your cute pooch cuz you keep on referring to him as that? Was a joke...
Anyways..thanks for the reply. :)