I own the Canon 7 and it is a solid camera body. I have yet to find a good 35mm LTM to use with it but the Canon 50mm 1.8 is an excellent lens. This camera is definitely not as pretty as the Canon P but advantages being a working light meter, more frame lines that are less cluttered, and disadvantages, no shoe for flash or accessories. They made one that would be mounted on the camera but they are hard to find and expensive. Good news is that I probably would not use flash on this camera and I think that 35/50/85/100/135 covers all the lenses I would ever use. And the 28mm can be used with this camera too without an external viewfinder. I would pick up a P but they are much more expensive than the 7. Excellent review and thank you for not being pigeon holed on Leicas. I’m still hunting for a M film camera but currently can’t justify the cost. Keep up the good work Matt and send models 🤣
Thanks! Yes Canon are nice (and good value) but the Leica is the next step up. I use Leica and sometimes Canon lenses and I have a Canon L3 which is good fun (see that video).
Thanks for the vid, Matt - really enjoyed it. I know this is an older video, but I recently acquired a Canon Model 7 so I thought it was worth commenting. I have a iiic, M3 and 7 and the body only weights of my cameras are: iiic = 422, M3 = 577, Model 7 = 619. I don't really notice the 7 being significantly heavier than the M3, but obvs the iiic is much lighter. The 7 is bigger all round, and very angular. The 7 cost 10 times less than the M3, both are in superb condition. The iiic I bought in the 70's so I can't really compare. I think each camera is brilliant in their own way, but they serve a slightly different purpose. With a collapsible lens the iiic is super light and compact. The model 7 is more of a just throw it in the bag and don't worry to much if it gets a know or two. I love the full range of frame lines, easy loading etc. and I do actually find the built in meter useful. I have reasonably large hands, and find the handling OK. The M3 though is just in a different league altogether, just pure luxury, and such a joy to shoot. Is it worth 10 times the cost of the 7 - absolutely it is. Is it 10 times a better camera, technically no! The value is in my relationship with the camera - every time I pick up the M3 I just feel inspired to go out and take photos.
I recently bought leather half-cases for both the M3 and Model 7. The case hides a lot of the 7's angular feeling and makes it much nicer to handle, IMHO. Obvs putting the camera in a case is not for everyone as it slows down film changing etc.
This is actually really funny. The first pic you show of the 7 (2:23) is actually the one i bought a few weeks ago! I've been using a Jupiter-8 lens and i've been loving it thus far.
Clear, comprehensive, and most informative. The weight and lack of a shoe rules this camera out for me. I shot a Leica M2 for years and have also had an M3 and IIIf. Guess I'll start a savings account for another M3.
Your video's are a great contribution to photography.I have a Canon 7s and it has a hot shoe.I shoot with a M2 for 35mm and M3 with 50 mm.I also use a RF Canon P. Thank you for your efforts
I'm thinking about getting one as a gateway to the Leica system. I was thinking about getting some good m39 Leica made lens so if I feel like upgrading to the M-system, I'll just need an adapter. Great video as always!
Sorry for my delayed reply. I did a similar approach. I got the Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 lens on a Bessa R3A first and that was my entry point to buy my first Leica! :) Check out the Bessa R video too for M39 glass. Model 7 is more Leica like as heavy and metal but I prefer the Bessa. Also look at Leica iii cameras if you will shoot 50mm, see those videos.
Great review (as always), thanks Matt! 👍 It really is a great camera in so many ways. I owned one for a short while a few years back and I paid around £90 for it I remember that but even at £200 now it's brilliant value for a film RF camera. I sold mine after a short while because I simply just wasn't using it. I think at the time I owned both an M2 and an M6 and it just never got a look in over those really. So the same reasons why you didn't click with it, what's better to use than an M2? The metal shutter is a lot louder if street photography is your thing so that's something to bear in mind but film loading, the frameline selection and a shutter lock are streets ahead of a Leica M so that's in its favour. Worth a look at really so long as it's flaws don't affect your type of photography. End of the day you won't lose out any money if you want to buy one and try it out and find its not your thing.
A second hand Canon lens 1 : 0,95 - 50 mm was sold for f 40,00 (forty dutch guilders) ( the price of ten Kodak 135 - 36 B&W films) by FOKA in Rotterdam in 1975.
The Canon LTM rangefinders are currently undervalued. The Canon P and 7 models will blow up in popularity and prices will reflect that as more people find and use them. I gladly found the very rare Canon 7sZ for only $250 years ago. The Canon 7sZ total production is around 4,000 units so that model will certainly fetch $500+. The ordinary Canon P and 7 models will less likely to inflate but a price hike is bound to happen. The Canon LTM lenses are increasing more so than the bodies but that's another topic...
Canon no cold shoe ? No poblem ! Professional powefull flashes had factory made straight brackets. In those days we bought a L-bracket to mount a small flash or the flashhead. The seperated generator had a strap over the shoulder. In Japan famous flash brands were National, Toshiba, Nissin, Hitachi, Kako, Sunpak and Vivitar.
Great video Matt. One other benefit of this camera is that it uses LTM lenses...which cost much less than M lenses. So it seems as if you get a camera closer to the M cameras but not having to pay M lens prices. Sort of a best-of-both world scenario. I wasn't planning on buying another camera...but since I have so many different LTM mount lenses I may have to take a look. 😁
Thanks Jim, yes very true re. lenses and cheaper than the Bessa R which is similar in many respects. I did keep the R but the Canon gives a much more solid cheaper alternative. :)
I just picked up a Canon 7 and have yet to use it, but like the overall feel of it, may feel different after shooting it ... it's definitely heavier than my Leica IIIf ... I do like that it can load like a more modern camera , I still have random problems with loading the Leica IIf!!!
Really comprehensive video. The Canon 7 is a really excellent camera. It would be worth your time to do a similar video on the Canon P. It does have somewhat fewer features, but is still a fine camera, and generally a bit cheaper than the 7.
Held a Canon 7s at a camera show once. It was beautiful and for a long time I regretted not buying it. Instead I bought a Yashica Lynx 14e. Now I would just save and buy a Leica.
Thanks. I don’t want to sound like a Leica fanboy but I’m testing them as against many other RF cameras and they are up there with the best. Leica iii are great cameras to get into. See vids on those including M vs iii.
I very much like your no-nonsense approach to Leica&theLike. That said, I once had a Canon P. Very nice camera indeed and about 90% of the utility value of an M2, in some small ways even better. Of course, the P has a metal curtain, while the M2 uses cloth. This may divide opions sharply, but it was not the reason why I sold my nice P. Here is my reason why I personally wouldn't go for Canon rangefinders: They are from Japan and I live in Germany. Try getting a Canon rangefinder serviced or repaired somewhere in Europe! Good luck! If you use your camera, the day will come -- and if you don't, it may come even earlier. With every vintage camera (of non-negligible value) in you cupboard you should keep the address of a competent, quickly reachable and reaonably charging repair shop. People tend not to think of this when they imagine themselves fondling the beautiful new toy, and then click the BUY button.
Thanks, that's really great advice. I just found a new "backup" repair guy so I hope to keep him if my usual guy is fully booked (which is most of the time). I've not tried a P but I found the 7 a bit to angular and heavy for my taste.
I have a IIIf and a Canon P - both wonderful cameras! I prefer the Canon's viewfinder/rangefinder over the Leica, but it’s otherwise a close race! I didn’t buy the Canon 7 precisely for the lack of an accessory shoe, for all of the reasons that you mentioned. The film loading on the Canon is such a pleasure over the Leica - no anxiety!!!
The Canon P is my daily driver. Robust, reliable, no fluff, and a fantastic 1x viewfinder. And it's fairly easy to make adjustments and reparations on it. I also have the rarer VT Deluxe (the integrated trigger winder is so fun to use) with a smaller viewfinder but selectable magnification depending on your lens, including a rangefinder patch magnification for very precise focus. I take both cameras everywhere I go and they both cured my Leica cravings for good I think.
Thanks Simon, yes the 1x finders are nice but not for my portrait work. That's why I skipped the P. The Canon I still have is a V something.. I should know but I got it with a lens so never really looked at it. That has the much better for me finder for precision and much nicer size so that is a keeper I think.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yes, that makes sense for portraiture. I do mostly urban/street/landscape, so a large viewfinder is much better adapted to this. Focus is a lot less critical since I shoot 95% of the time at f8 or more and never use lenses longer than 50mm.
@@SimonGarnier haha i'm just trying to make myself feel better if others own a few more cameras too haha.. but it is a great camera for f8 28mm (or wider).. soo light and pretty cheap. See the video if you need tempting :D
Another great video Matt. The issue of the missing cold shoe on the Canon 7 was resolved with the 7s. There are some design changes with that one but the issue of physical weight is still an issue. However, I prefer the aesthetics of the Canon P and the Canonet QL17 GIII. I own them both. I agree about the Voigtländer BESSA R series of cameras. Very plasticky by comparison to Leica and Canon but loaded with features that make them attractive. Honestly, I wish Voigtländer would make a special addition BESSA mirrorless rangefinder to compete with the Leica M10 series of cameras. I'd love to say that the new Zeiss ZX1 is it but it's not. That camera is a concept camera and needs lots of work. But I digress...
Thanks, yes I thought someone may mention the 7s. I realised after I should have mentioned that! That’s for sharing for others. Yes I know I said Voigtlander are plastic but if you read between the lines I kept all the Bessas and sold the Canon 7 so you can see my preference. :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I got your meaning. To me Voigtländer rangefinders are underrated. Unfortunately, they stopped making them. If they were to make a digital mirrorless BESSA I'd certainly consider buying one. Keep bringing the great content.
Matt- I agree with your assessment of the Canon 7, plus I find it simply ugly and less well built than a V or VI Series Canon. The earlier V and VI series are another story. You cannot beat an M3 with its .91 finder/62.3mm EBL for your wide open/close up use with a fast 50 or 90. But the VI series Canons (P, VI-L and VI-T) are extremely competitive with the M2. The P has 35,50, and 100 parallax adjusting framelines, all visible at the same time and a 1:1 viewfinder with EBL 40mm. This allows keeping both eyes open when shooting so you can see more outside of the frame at 35mm than an M2 (0.72 finder/49mm EBL). I find that the 35 frame is not visible with glasses, so would consider a VI-L (or VI-T) which has the same 1:1 view for 50 and 100 and a separate 0.7 view for 35, plus a magnified view, much like a Barnack Leica which gives you an EBL of 60mm, but of course you have to frame separately. What's nice about the VI-L and VI-T (but alas, not the P) is that they support the V series accessory finders which auto parallax correct making use with longer lenses (85/100/135) much easier. Talk about the V series cameras when you review yours, which based on the fleeting shots you have shown appears to be an L2 or L3.
Thanks Adam, great info again 🙏🏻 I dont wear glasses for photography so the M2 35mm framelines works great for me. I searched my emails.. good eyes! I have an L3 camera. I agree, so much nicer than the 7. When I get chance to use it I will put a video together in the future. Probably next year now due to lockdown.
@@vicpico1 Dude That is not a Hot Shoe, Hot Shoes were not made it's appearance in the Mid 1960's when Pentax Place them on the Spotmatic's then later Minolta, Nikon had a flash shoe to the F, and then F2, Olympus, Petri, Miranda, Yashica to SLR to the small RF fix lens units. That button on the older V series that it is a pin to activate the Automatic Parallax Corrections with Any of the V-Type accessory CANON Viewfinders, also that button is NOT Center like traditional Hot shoe - Who told you that it is a Hot Shoe?? Not to Trigger a Flash unit. So go ahead place a Hot Shoe Flash unit see if it goes off.. I'll Matt did not knew that? Kept Referring Hot Shoe Hot shoe...Wow
Great video as always Matt. I own a Leica IIIF and the Canon 7 and owned a Canon P in the past. Like the Canon 7 over the P and the 7 is the reason I haven't paid up for a Leica M. I really can't justify the high Leica M prices.
Hi! Good day. Planning to get Canon rangefinder. Price/Value/Technology wish, Canon rangefinder, I think in my opinion, is the best option this days. Leica & Nikon rangefinders, is overprice for its price, compare to Canon rangefinders. Thanks
Thanks Richard, yes if I had discovered the Canon before Leica I might be the same but I got into Leica after a student brought his M9 (and I was sick of my Nikon) and the rest was history as they say. I bought my first Leica on eBay as soon as he left! Then from digital Leica discovered film Leica then only years later I’m now trying Canon.
Over the 1980-90s, I found myself collecting Canon RF equipment, which eventually included a Canon 7 and a 7Sz (and the 50mm .95 lens). At one point I planned to use the Canon 7 (7Sz too valuable to risk using). I sent it to Ken Ruth at Bald Mountain, one of the top repairman of these cameras in the US. He informed me that the metal foil shutters in the 7 and 7S operate at relatively high spring pressure, and they loose tension. Moreover, lacking the critical parts, that cannot be repaired. The result is that most (all) 7 and 7S bodies will be out of spec above 1/125 sec. With best adjustments, you'll probably be running nearly a stop slow at 1/1000. Considering the greater weight and larger size of the 7/7S, even with a marginally better viewfinder, when I choose a body from the collection to shoot a little film, my choice is the VIT. The P might be a good option, but I cannot say, as the P is one of the very few bodies I've never acquired.Models preceding the 7 are fairly easy to service today.
Did Ken Ruth specifically say that the 7/7s shutter operates at a higher spring pressure than the VI/P shutter (all these models have metal foil curtains) or just at a higher spring pressure than most cameras (e.g. ones with cloth shutters)? Everything else I've heard suggests that the VI, P, and 7-series shutters are pretty much identical... the curtains presumably have the same mass, and the fact that all these cameras have the same X-sync speed suggests that curtain speeds are similar, so I would think the total force would be the same regardless of model and require similar spring pressure to move the same mass at the same velocity. All springs lose elasticity over time, and that's why there's an adjustment for it, but if you're going to run out of adjustment range eventually on a 7/7s, I would think the same would happen on a P or VI (or later metal-curtain V models) sooner or later... probably sooner, since these cameras are older than the 7 and have had more time for the springs to relax. If spares are unavailable and nothing else can be adapted (making new springs is certainly possible but probably not economic) then that will be the end of the line, but I'm going to go on using my P, VI-T and 7Sz anyway until they stop... a lot of older cameras are going to be felled eventually by non-renewable parts, and we'll need to decide whether to put them on the shelf or use them until they're used up. Nikon expert Bob Rotoloni wrote that ANY camera that is used will deteriorate eventually, so you need to decide up front whether each new acquisition is a “collector” or “user” camera... mine are all “users”, so that's how I'm rolling?..
@@jlwilliams I have also read that the VI Series (P, VI-L and VI-T) shutter is similar to those of the 7 Series. I have also read that the V series (L1, L2,L3, VT, VT deluxe (all variants), VL and VL2) shutter, which was introduced in improved form in the Canon IVbS2 is more dependable than the VI shutter and is essentially an improved Leica Barnack shutter, whether with cloth or metal blinds (which are entirely interchangeable, many VT/L1/L2/L3 cameras, which came with cloth shutters were later replaced with metal shutters). These are bulletproof cameras, and after Matt finally gets around to reviewing his L3 I will make my argument for V series camera being the best user LTM cameras, especially for photographers primarily using 35 and 50mm lenses.
I have the P and a 7S. I see comments about dumping the Canons after using an M. Is there really that much difference or is that just imagined superiority and justification for spending that much money.
Curious to know how much bigger the Canon 7 is to the M3, or even an AE-1 because I am looking at something smaller than my AE-1 and wonder if either of these check the box
Hmm the M2 and M3 are the same size so you can see the 7 compared. I’m not sure from memory so it’s only what I show in this video. These are all heavy metal cameras so the AE-1 might be lighter. RF cameras are normally a similar width but SLR are 1.5-2x deeper because of the mirror box.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom thanks for replying Matt and yeah the mirror box is what def makes me want a RF because they don't have a mirror, weights not much of an issue for me it's more compact sizing im after compared to my AE-1
Hi from Mexico! .. hmm thoughts...ok.. I'm thinking along the same lines as you are! ...I want something well made and smallish that i can just put into a pocket and take with me anywhere! So, I too am more for the Leica's in those respects! I have bid on 5 of them!! Leica 111's, a Leica 11, and a Leica M5!!! ALL are in literally MINT shape and I couldn't pass up not trying for them! .. Later on this month,..with a little luck... I will be a LEICA OWNER!!! :-D
Why paid minimum 2000 dollars for a Leica film camera when you can almost have one the same quality but under 200 dollars . I sold my m2, m4 , m6 long time ago to shoot digital . Now comeback to film as I miss the old day shooting film and be honest it’s your skill to shoot a good photos not because shooting the Leica camera you have better photos . I do love the M system for theirs ergonomic , weight and feel better but that all . Don’t fall for the name this canon 7 is fun to shoot if you like range finder camera .
Thanks no you’re on the right channel if you know that ;) See the many Barnack videos I’ve done, I have quite a few now iiia, iiig if ic iif Leica I.. and some copies :)
Matt, from your experience, does the rangefinder effective base length has any real noticable results on the photos? Aesthetically aside, a voigtlander Bessa R2a takes the same photos as a Leica M3 with the same lenses?
No difference between M39 and L39 on Canon cameras and actually Leicas --> L39 is Leicas M39 interpretation. You can take USSR M39 lens and screw it on Leica or Canon and you can screw L39 lense on Soviet Zorki camera with no issues. Of course you should remember that rangefinder need to be adjusted for every each lense, but it doesn't mean that you can't use much cheaper lenses and buy only Leica lenses. Yes, I agree --> The magic is in the Leica lenses :)
i’ve had the privilege of using both the leica M2 and M3 and I really don’t get the hype around them. They feel very solid, and they’re obviously nice to use, but I don’t find it to be leaps and bounds over anything other rangefinder, aside from the weight and maybe the viewfinder. The Canon VI-L, Canon P, and Canon 7 are good reasons to never pay the Leica M tax, in my opinion.
Thanks Ryan, yes I guess most RF cameras are similar so then it comes down to picking the one that you enjoy the most. For me I need #1 accurate and bright VF and #2 nice form and engaging to use. The Canon worked for me without issue but I preferred the Ms. Basic things like being able to modify a M3 to focus at 0.7m instantly makes it a complete deal breaker as a portrait photographer. I cannot work at a distance of 1m from my subjects so that ruled out the Canons for regular use. (It is true for my Leica iii cameras too that are also 1m but I use these less for portraits. I now also use Leica R cameras as they focus closer than M bodies.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom fair. the best camera is the one that makes you wanna shoot, and leica’s are that camera for a lot of people and for good reason. really appreciate your videos as always.
I have the Canon P because I don't have a Leica M2 (M2 has much better build quality and handling). But then again I don't have the Canon 7 because it's big and ugly as compared to the Canon P...:). I do like those Barnack iii's as well if I could just get over the teeny, tiny viewfinder. (use an external VF I suppose). I may get a iii next anyway...
Thanks John, yes definitely try a Leica iii, they are better made than Ms if you like those! Yes with a nice big bright VF you can’t go wrong (see my viewfinder video if interested!) :)
Oh you replied 😅 I wasn't expecting that Any ways is there any chance to make videos about leica r lenses. I think they are better than the m lenses personally Oh how could i iam a big fan continue making great with i have never seen someone that passionate about gear Thanks
@@noureldainnoureldain5851 ha yes I try to reply to all comments! :) I don’t own any R lenses but if I get to test some I’ll be sure to share the results!
Essentially, the dream lens was built to fit ONLY on the Canon Model 7 (and 7s). The model 7 is a LTM Mount, but also has an extra bayonet portion that allows mounting the dream lens because the ltm wouldn’t be strong enough to hold the weight. Some people have successfully had the dream lens modified to m-mount, but I believe very few camera techs can do that. You can buy adapters on eBay to mount to various mirrorless cameras. It’s a beast of a lens, and has a very distinctive look that it produces.
Mario beat me but with a better answer. Thanks Mario. Maybe just to mention every other Canon lens except the dream lens work fine as designed on Leica. See my Canon 35mm and 50mm vids for example (on Leica).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom My Pleasure! I have 2 Canon 7 bodies, a handfull of Canon LTM glass, including the Dream Lens. I got them at an auction back in January. I love the cameras and they are what is keeping me from getting an M series Leica. I don't mind the weight, and can't see the point of the extra Leica tax! The dream lens is quite awkward to shoot with, mostly because of it's size and weight. The size is so big, that when you look through the viewfinder, almost 1/3 the frame is obstructed by the lens! But it yields really dreamy results!
The Canon 7 is big and ugly because it had to make room to mount the f0.95 Dream Lens. Unlike Canon's older smaller LTM cameras, the design of the 7 included taller and wider positioned viewfinder/rangefinder windows to clear the monstrous Dream Lens and effectively also increasing the rangefinder base to focus precisely. The Canon 7 and later model variants commemorated a final goodbye to Canon's interchangeable rangefinder lens system. Canon moved into making the professional Canon F-1 camera introduced in 1971 and the new FD mount SLR system is quite popular today.
Ha yes it was a photo I find online, more to show how the shutter can burn that the type of damage normally seen. It’s not ally a small ‘slice’ than a round hole from what I see.
Use a cloth-shutter camera outdoors very often and you'll see it! It's more likely to happen when the lens is set at a closer distance rather than infinity, because the curtains are several mm forward of the film plane. If anybody has a beater Zorki that they'd like to immolate for the sake of TH-cam, this would be a great experiment!
Thanks George, I prefer the older Canon's actually ( I say older.. they are more Leica iii like.. I will do a review at some point once I've used it but it looks like a keeper).
I like my Canon 7 ,the Quality of the picture are the same, I have Man hands so it's perfect.....the red dot hipster camera is to consumer hype and is for divorced Dentist who have to make up for some short......
Thanks Georg! Yes like the Canon 7 I get nice results from some of the affordable Soviet RF cameras and my film Nikons. These all offer excellent value I think.. and yes if using the same LTM lens the photos will be the same too.
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I own the Canon 7 and it is a solid camera body. I have yet to find a good 35mm LTM to use with it but the Canon 50mm 1.8 is an excellent lens. This camera is definitely not as pretty as the Canon P but advantages being a working light meter, more frame lines that are less cluttered, and disadvantages, no shoe for flash or accessories. They made one that would be mounted on the camera but they are hard to find and expensive. Good news is that I probably would not use flash on this camera and I think that 35/50/85/100/135 covers all the lenses I would ever use. And the 28mm can be used with this camera too without an external viewfinder. I would pick up a P but they are much more expensive than the 7. Excellent review and thank you for not being pigeon holed on Leicas. I’m still hunting for a M film camera but currently can’t justify the cost. Keep up the good work Matt and send models 🤣
Thanks Pete! Yes 35mm LTM are harder to find. I use 35 2.5 Skopar LTM mostly*
Another great one Matt. I'm on a Canon 7s kick, still researching but your take on L M2 is very convincing.
Thanks! Yes Canon are nice (and good value) but the Leica is the next step up. I use Leica and sometimes Canon lenses and I have a Canon L3 which is good fun (see that video).
Thanks for the vid, Matt - really enjoyed it.
I know this is an older video, but I recently acquired a Canon Model 7 so I thought it was worth commenting. I have a iiic, M3 and 7 and the body only weights of my cameras are: iiic = 422, M3 = 577, Model 7 = 619. I don't really notice the 7 being significantly heavier than the M3, but obvs the iiic is much lighter. The 7 is bigger all round, and very angular.
The 7 cost 10 times less than the M3, both are in superb condition. The iiic I bought in the 70's so I can't really compare.
I think each camera is brilliant in their own way, but they serve a slightly different purpose. With a collapsible lens the iiic is super light and compact. The model 7 is more of a just throw it in the bag and don't worry to much if it gets a know or two. I love the full range of frame lines, easy loading etc. and I do actually find the built in meter useful. I have reasonably large hands, and find the handling OK.
The M3 though is just in a different league altogether, just pure luxury, and such a joy to shoot.
Is it worth 10 times the cost of the 7 - absolutely it is. Is it 10 times a better camera, technically no! The value is in my relationship with the camera - every time I pick up the M3 I just feel inspired to go out and take photos.
Thanks yes if you see my latest video the news lenses will be great in these old cameras, I agree the M3 is king
I recently bought leather half-cases for both the M3 and Model 7. The case hides a lot of the 7's angular feeling and makes it much nicer to handle, IMHO. Obvs putting the camera in a case is not for everyone as it slows down film changing etc.
@@nickm8134 thanks Nick, great tip!
This is actually really funny. The first pic you show of the 7 (2:23) is actually the one i bought a few weeks ago! I've been using a Jupiter-8 lens and i've been loving it thus far.
Really!? The same serial number?? A guy called Paul bought it off me very recently. Maybe he flipped it.
Jupiter-8, nice!
Clear, comprehensive, and most informative. The weight and lack of a shoe rules this camera out for me. I shot a Leica M2 for years and have also had an M3 and IIIf. Guess I'll start a savings account for another M3.
Thank you John. You can get similar cameras with a shoe. I prefer Leica iii or Leica Ms though.
Я так же снимаю на leica m3. Но у меня есть два canon 7. Зимой, в мороз, canon намного лучше , стабильнее работает, чем leica m3.
Your video's are a great contribution to the community. I have a Canon 7s and has a hot shoe and love it as much as my M2 for 35mm and M3 for 50mm
Thank you Robert!
Your video's are a great contribution to photography.I have a Canon 7s and it has a hot shoe.I shoot with a M2 for 35mm and M3 with 50 mm.I also use a RF Canon P. Thank you for your efforts
Thanks Robert! Ah you have the less common 7s (nice!) so I would hang onto it. Yes i'm with you all the way on the M2/M3 use :)
I'm thinking about getting one as a gateway to the Leica system. I was thinking about getting some good m39 Leica made lens so if I feel like upgrading to the M-system, I'll just need an adapter.
Great video as always!
Sorry for my delayed reply. I did a similar approach. I got the Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 lens on a Bessa R3A first and that was my entry point to buy my first Leica! :) Check out the Bessa R video too for M39 glass. Model 7 is more Leica like as heavy and metal but I prefer the Bessa. Also look at Leica iii cameras if you will shoot 50mm, see those videos.
Somewhere I must have the Canon rangefinder camera + lenses pricelist for the year 1970.
That will be the day when I will publish it at your site.
Ha thanks Jaco. Yes that will be a very cool find!
Great review (as always), thanks Matt! 👍
It really is a great camera in so many ways. I owned one for a short while a few years back and I paid around £90 for it I remember that but even at £200 now it's brilliant value for a film RF camera. I sold mine after a short while because I simply just wasn't using it. I think at the time I owned both an M2 and an M6 and it just never got a look in over those really. So the same reasons why you didn't click with it, what's better to use than an M2? The metal shutter is a lot louder if street photography is your thing so that's something to bear in mind but film loading, the frameline selection and a shutter lock are streets ahead of a Leica M so that's in its favour.
Worth a look at really so long as it's flaws don't affect your type of photography. End of the day you won't lose out any money if you want to buy one and try it out and find its not your thing.
Thanks, yes I agree with all you say! Thanks for sharing.
I was given a Leica years ago I didn't have a use for it so sold it, it was a nice thing but no better built than a Pentax Spotmatic
Thanks, yes some like them, some are less fussed. You can take the same or similar photos with many cheaper cameras.
A second hand Canon lens 1 : 0,95 - 50 mm was sold for f 40,00 (forty dutch guilders)
( the price of ten Kodak 135 - 36 B&W films) by FOKA in Rotterdam in 1975.
Wow!
The Canon LTM rangefinders are currently undervalued. The Canon P and 7 models will blow up in popularity and prices will reflect that as more people find and use them. I gladly found the very rare Canon 7sZ for only $250 years ago. The Canon 7sZ total production is around 4,000 units so that model will certainly fetch $500+. The ordinary Canon P and 7 models will less likely to inflate but a price hike is bound to happen.
The Canon LTM lenses are increasing more so than the bodies but that's another topic...
Yes agreed about the price including the lenses. As you might know I enjoy using these lenses.
I believe that flange around the PC socket is for the accessory shoe which is rumored to exist but I've never seen one.
Ah thank you, I know a bit less about these old Canon cameras (compared to Leicas)
Canon no cold shoe ? No poblem !
Professional powefull flashes had factory made straight brackets.
In those days we bought a L-bracket to mount a small flash or the
flashhead. The seperated generator had a strap over the shoulder.
In Japan famous flash brands were National, Toshiba, Nissin,
Hitachi, Kako, Sunpak and Vivitar.
Thanks Jaco, I recognize many of those brands
Great video Matt. One other benefit of this camera is that it uses LTM lenses...which cost much less than M lenses. So it seems as if you get a camera closer to the M cameras but not having to pay M lens prices. Sort of a best-of-both world scenario. I wasn't planning on buying another camera...but since I have so many different LTM mount lenses I may have to take a look. 😁
Thanks Jim, yes very true re. lenses and cheaper than the Bessa R which is similar in many respects. I did keep the R but the Canon gives a much more solid cheaper alternative. :)
I just picked up a Canon 7 and have yet to use it, but like the overall feel of it, may feel different after shooting it ... it's definitely heavier than my Leica IIIf ... I do like that it can load like a more modern camera , I still have random problems with loading the Leica IIf!!!
Nice Brian, yes easier to load and can take nice photos too. Enjoy!
I shot a Canon P with the 50/1.8 for 2 years. It was my EDC. After I acquired an M2, I moved it on.
Thanks Jason, Sadly I had the M2 many years before I tried the Canon so it only lasted one 1 of film before it moved on!
Really comprehensive video. The Canon 7 is a really excellent camera.
It would be worth your time to do a similar video on the Canon P. It does have somewhat fewer features, but is still a fine camera, and generally a bit cheaper than the 7.
Thanks Scott, if I ever get a P to play with I will do 👍🏻
Held a Canon 7s at a camera show once. It was beautiful and for a long time I regretted not buying it. Instead I bought a Yashica Lynx 14e. Now I would just save and buy a Leica.
Thanks. I don’t want to sound like a Leica fanboy but I’m testing them as against many other RF cameras and they are up there with the best. Leica iii are great cameras to get into. See vids on those including M vs iii.
Once you’ve done a bunch of anything your preferences become much more refined.
Great point Tom. I thought I was a die hard RF boy until I got my SL!
I very much like your no-nonsense approach to Leica&theLike. That said, I once had a Canon P. Very nice camera indeed and about 90% of the utility value of an M2, in some small ways even better. Of course, the P has a metal curtain, while the M2 uses cloth. This may divide opions sharply, but it was not the reason why I sold my nice P. Here is my reason why I personally wouldn't go for Canon rangefinders: They are from Japan and I live in Germany. Try getting a Canon rangefinder serviced or repaired somewhere in Europe! Good luck! If you use your camera, the day will come -- and if you don't, it may come even earlier. With every vintage camera (of non-negligible value) in you cupboard you should keep the address of a competent, quickly reachable and reaonably charging repair shop. People tend not to think of this when they imagine themselves fondling the beautiful new toy, and then click the BUY button.
Thanks, that's really great advice. I just found a new "backup" repair guy so I hope to keep him if my usual guy is fully booked (which is most of the time). I've not tried a P but I found the 7 a bit to angular and heavy for my taste.
I have a IIIf and a Canon P - both wonderful cameras! I prefer the Canon's viewfinder/rangefinder over the Leica, but it’s otherwise a close race! I didn’t buy the Canon 7 precisely for the lack of an accessory shoe, for all of the reasons that you mentioned. The film loading on the Canon is such a pleasure over the Leica - no anxiety!!!
Thanks Richard, great to hear that you use both!
The Canon P is my daily driver. Robust, reliable, no fluff, and a fantastic 1x viewfinder. And it's fairly easy to make adjustments and reparations on it. I also have the rarer VT Deluxe (the integrated trigger winder is so fun to use) with a smaller viewfinder but selectable magnification depending on your lens, including a rangefinder patch magnification for very precise focus. I take both cameras everywhere I go and they both cured my Leica cravings for good I think.
Thanks Simon, yes the 1x finders are nice but not for my portrait work. That's why I skipped the P. The Canon I still have is a V something.. I should know but I got it with a lens so never really looked at it. That has the much better for me finder for precision and much nicer size so that is a keeper I think.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yes, that makes sense for portraiture. I do mostly urban/street/landscape, so a large viewfinder is much better adapted to this. Focus is a lot less critical since I shoot 95% of the time at f8 or more and never use lenses longer than 50mm.
@@SimonGarnier ah perfect, look at a Bessa L if you shoot wides too! Perfect F8 shooter :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I have 20+ film cameras at home. I don't need another one 🤣
@@SimonGarnier haha i'm just trying to make myself feel better if others own a few more cameras too haha.. but it is a great camera for f8 28mm (or wider).. soo light and pretty cheap. See the video if you need tempting :D
Another great video Matt. The issue of the missing cold shoe on the Canon 7 was resolved with the 7s. There are some design changes with that one but the issue of physical weight is still an issue. However, I prefer the aesthetics of the Canon P and the Canonet QL17 GIII. I own them both. I agree about the Voigtländer BESSA R series of cameras.
Very plasticky by comparison to Leica and Canon but loaded with features that make them attractive. Honestly, I wish Voigtländer would make a special addition BESSA mirrorless rangefinder to compete with the Leica M10 series of cameras. I'd love to say that the new Zeiss ZX1 is it but it's not. That camera is a concept camera and needs lots of work. But I digress...
Thanks, yes I thought someone may mention the 7s. I realised after I should have mentioned that! That’s for sharing for others. Yes I know I said Voigtlander are plastic but if you read between the lines I kept all the Bessas and sold the Canon 7 so you can see my preference. :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I got your meaning. To me Voigtländer rangefinders are underrated. Unfortunately, they stopped making them. If they were to make a digital mirrorless BESSA I'd certainly consider buying one. Keep bringing the great content.
@@d.idowuolutosin4250 thanks I will do.
Matt- I agree with your assessment of the Canon 7, plus I find it simply ugly and less well built than a V or VI Series Canon. The earlier V and VI series are another story. You cannot beat an M3 with its .91 finder/62.3mm EBL for your wide open/close up use with a fast 50 or 90. But the VI series Canons (P, VI-L and VI-T) are extremely competitive with the M2. The P has 35,50, and 100 parallax adjusting framelines, all visible at the same time and a 1:1 viewfinder with EBL 40mm. This allows keeping both eyes open when shooting so you can see more outside of the frame at 35mm than an M2 (0.72 finder/49mm EBL). I find that the 35 frame is not visible with glasses, so would consider a VI-L (or VI-T) which has the same 1:1 view for 50 and 100 and a separate 0.7 view for 35, plus a magnified view, much like a Barnack Leica which gives you an EBL of 60mm, but of course you have to frame separately. What's nice about the VI-L and VI-T (but alas, not the P) is that they support the V series accessory finders which auto parallax correct making use with longer lenses (85/100/135) much easier.
Talk about the V series cameras when you review yours, which based on the fleeting shots you have shown appears to be an L2 or L3.
Thanks Adam, great info again 🙏🏻 I dont wear glasses for photography so the M2 35mm framelines works great for me. I searched my emails.. good eyes! I have an L3 camera. I agree, so much nicer than the 7. When I get chance to use it I will put a video together in the future. Probably next year now due to lockdown.
Hmm.... never noticed the lack of a hot/cold shoe before - good point. Looking forward to your review of the 50/0.95.....!
Thanks! ..erm I may need to buy that lens first 😅 ..I will try to pull a few strings to make it happen!
Hi! Canon VIL model rangefinder, have a hot shoe.. for information. Thanks
@@vicpico1 thanks. I have another Canon RF camera (seen in my eBay video) so I’ll do a review in that once I’ve tested it.
@@vicpico1 Dude That is not a Hot Shoe, Hot Shoes were not made it's appearance in the Mid 1960's when Pentax Place them on the Spotmatic's then later Minolta, Nikon had a flash shoe to the F, and then F2, Olympus, Petri, Miranda, Yashica to SLR to the small RF fix lens units. That button on the older V series that it is a pin to activate the Automatic Parallax Corrections with Any of the V-Type accessory CANON Viewfinders, also that button is NOT Center like traditional Hot shoe - Who told you that it is a Hot Shoe?? Not to Trigger a Flash unit. So go ahead place a Hot Shoe Flash unit see if it goes off.. I'll Matt did not knew that? Kept Referring Hot Shoe Hot shoe...Wow
@@alexcarrillo5510 .. Thanks for info. Noted.
Great video as always Matt. I own a Leica IIIF and the Canon 7 and owned a Canon P in the past. Like the Canon 7 over the P and the 7 is the reason I haven't paid up for a Leica M. I really can't justify the high Leica M prices.
Hi! Good day. Planning to get Canon rangefinder. Price/Value/Technology wish, Canon rangefinder, I think in my opinion, is the best option this days. Leica & Nikon rangefinders, is overprice for its price, compare to Canon rangefinders. Thanks
Thanks Richard, yes if I had discovered the Canon before Leica I might be the same but I got into Leica after a student brought his M9 (and I was sick of my Nikon) and the rest was history as they say. I bought my first Leica on eBay as soon as he left! Then from digital Leica discovered film Leica then only years later I’m now trying Canon.
@@vicpico1 yes the Canon RF cameras offer great value for sure. They’re even cheaper than the Voigtlanders.
Over the 1980-90s, I found myself collecting Canon RF equipment, which eventually included a Canon 7 and a 7Sz (and the 50mm .95 lens). At one point I planned to use the Canon 7 (7Sz too valuable to risk using). I sent it to Ken Ruth at Bald Mountain, one of the top repairman of these cameras in the US. He informed me that the metal foil shutters in the 7 and 7S operate at relatively high spring pressure, and they loose tension. Moreover, lacking the critical parts, that cannot be repaired. The result is that most (all) 7 and 7S bodies will be out of spec above 1/125 sec. With best adjustments, you'll probably be running nearly a stop slow at 1/1000. Considering the greater weight and larger size of the 7/7S, even with a marginally better viewfinder, when I choose a body from the collection to shoot a little film, my choice is the VIT. The P might be a good option, but I cannot say, as the P is one of the very few bodies I've never acquired.Models preceding the 7 are fairly easy to service today.
Thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear and yes I think you can find a P cheap on eBay if you wanted one. :)
Did Ken Ruth specifically say that the 7/7s shutter operates at a higher spring pressure than the VI/P shutter (all these models have metal foil curtains) or just at a higher spring pressure than most cameras (e.g. ones with cloth shutters)? Everything else I've heard suggests that the VI, P, and 7-series shutters are pretty much identical... the curtains presumably have the same mass, and the fact that all these cameras have the same X-sync speed suggests that curtain speeds are similar, so I would think the total force would be the same regardless of model and require similar spring pressure to move the same mass at the same velocity. All springs lose elasticity over time, and that's why there's an adjustment for it, but if you're going to run out of adjustment range eventually on a 7/7s, I would think the same would happen on a P or VI (or later metal-curtain V models) sooner or later... probably sooner, since these cameras are older than the 7 and have had more time for the springs to relax. If spares are unavailable and nothing else can be adapted (making new springs is certainly possible but probably not economic) then that will be the end of the line, but I'm going to go on using my P, VI-T and 7Sz anyway until they stop... a lot of older cameras are going to be felled eventually by non-renewable parts, and we'll need to decide whether to put them on the shelf or use them until they're used up. Nikon expert Bob Rotoloni wrote that ANY camera that is used will deteriorate eventually, so you need to decide up front whether each new acquisition is a “collector” or “user” camera... mine are all “users”, so that's how I'm rolling?..
@@jlwilliams Thanks yes I buy my cameras to be used too. 100%
@@jlwilliams I have also read that the VI Series (P, VI-L and VI-T) shutter is similar to those of the 7 Series. I have also read that the V series (L1, L2,L3, VT, VT deluxe (all variants), VL and VL2) shutter, which was introduced in improved form in the Canon IVbS2 is more dependable than the VI shutter and is essentially an improved Leica Barnack shutter, whether with cloth or metal blinds (which are entirely interchangeable, many VT/L1/L2/L3 cameras, which came with cloth shutters were later replaced with metal shutters). These are bulletproof cameras, and after Matt finally gets around to reviewing his L3 I will make my argument for V series camera being the best user LTM cameras, especially for photographers primarily using 35 and 50mm lenses.
@@jlwilliams The V curtains, early or late, cloth or metal are different, better.
I had the Canon P and I really liked it however I got a M2 and never looked back
Thanks Giles, I’m glad it’s not just me. Yes I didn’t have my Canon long. I only shot one roll of film.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom You are right that its a good way to get into film rangefinders but once you buy a film M there's no going back !
Great review Matt ! Thanks alot for all clear specs ! Do you really want us to return to film ? . . . :-) Greetings, Roger.
Thanks Roger, Haha no I think digital is more practical in today's fast paced environment but I still prefer film!
With current American eBay prices a canon 7 in nice shape is under $200 while a nice M2 is $1800ish. 10 fold price differential.
And both make the same photo! Yes unless need new M glass mount Canon are great option
I have the P and a 7S. I see comments about dumping the Canons after using an M. Is there really that much difference or is that just imagined superiority and justification for spending that much money.
Thanks Mark, I had Leica first so for me I preferred the Leica feel. Canon will take exactly the same photo so just personal preference really.
Curious to know how much bigger the Canon 7 is to the M3, or even an AE-1 because I am looking at something smaller than my AE-1 and wonder if either of these check the box
Hmm the M2 and M3 are the same size so you can see the 7 compared. I’m not sure from memory so it’s only what I show in this video. These are all heavy metal cameras so the AE-1 might be lighter. RF cameras are normally a similar width but SLR are 1.5-2x deeper because of the mirror box.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom thanks for replying Matt and yeah the mirror box is what def makes me want a RF because they don't have a mirror, weights not much of an issue for me it's more compact sizing im after compared to my AE-1
Hi from Mexico! .. hmm thoughts...ok.. I'm thinking along the same lines as you are! ...I want something well made and smallish that i can just put into a pocket and take with me anywhere! So, I too am more for the Leica's in those respects! I have bid on 5 of them!! Leica 111's, a Leica 11, and a Leica M5!!! ALL are in literally MINT shape and I couldn't pass up not trying for them! .. Later on this month,..with a little luck... I will be a LEICA OWNER!!! :-D
I think you will appreciate the Leica build! Congrats in advance on your ownership! :)
Have you tried the Canon P rangefinder? It has something of a look of a Leica 3, and appears smaller than the Canon 7.
Thanks, no I’ve not tried the P yet but I do own a smaller Csnon. Still to come!
canon 7 was my gateway drug.
Thanks! Yes I think it has quite a following! :)
Why paid minimum 2000 dollars for a Leica film camera when you can almost have one the same quality but under 200 dollars . I sold my m2, m4 , m6 long time ago to shoot digital . Now comeback to film as I miss the old day shooting film and be honest it’s your skill to shoot a good photos not because shooting the Leica camera you have better photos . I do love the M system for theirs ergonomic , weight and feel better but that all . Don’t fall for the name this canon 7 is fun to shoot if you like range finder camera .
Thanks yes well said, it is what you do with the camera that counts. I enjoy cheap Nikon SLR cameras too, Barnacks and currently Leica R
I think that the Canon P has a 100% viewfinder which is brilliant.
Correct! It's good if like shooting wider scenes. Keep both eyes open.
Good luck seeing the 35mm frameline, though! Even if you don't wear glasses, it's a stretch, and if you do it's basically invisible.
@@jlwilliams Yes I prefer the M2. My best cameras for 35mm lenses viewfinder wise for me.
Hello, I am not totally sure, but I think your Leica lll is actually a llla? Sorry for being a smart arse.
Thanks no you’re on the right channel if you know that ;) See the many Barnack videos I’ve done, I have quite a few now iiia, iiig if ic iif Leica I.. and some copies :)
Matt, from your experience, does the rangefinder effective base length has any real noticable results on the photos? Aesthetically aside, a voigtlander Bessa R2a takes the same photos as a Leica M3 with the same lenses?
Yes same photos ofc IF... you can hit focus with the Bessa. Stopped down it's OK.
No difference between M39 and L39 on Canon cameras and actually Leicas --> L39 is Leicas M39 interpretation. You can take USSR M39 lens and screw it on Leica or Canon and you can screw L39 lense on Soviet Zorki camera with no issues. Of course you should remember that rangefinder need to be adjusted for every each lense, but it doesn't mean that you can't use much cheaper lenses and buy only Leica lenses. Yes, I agree --> The magic is in the Leica lenses :)
Thanks Ivars!
i’ve had the privilege of using both the leica M2 and M3 and I really don’t get the hype around them. They feel very solid, and they’re obviously nice to use, but I don’t find it to be leaps and bounds over anything other rangefinder, aside from the weight and maybe the viewfinder. The Canon VI-L, Canon P, and Canon 7 are good reasons to never pay the Leica M tax, in my opinion.
Thanks Ryan, yes I guess most RF cameras are similar so then it comes down to picking the one that you enjoy the most. For me I need #1 accurate and bright VF and #2 nice form and engaging to use. The Canon worked for me without issue but I preferred the Ms. Basic things like being able to modify a M3 to focus at 0.7m instantly makes it a complete deal breaker as a portrait photographer. I cannot work at a distance of 1m from my subjects so that ruled out the Canons for regular use. (It is true for my Leica iii cameras too that are also 1m but I use these less for portraits. I now also use Leica R cameras as they focus closer than M bodies.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom fair. the best camera is the one that makes you wanna shoot, and leica’s are that camera for a lot of people and for good reason. really appreciate your videos as always.
@@ryandewerff thanks Ryan, agreed. If I hadn’t already discovered Leica I’m sure I would be more than happy with the Canon. Cheers.
I have the Canon P because I don't have a Leica M2 (M2 has much better build quality and handling). But then again I don't have the Canon 7 because it's big and ugly as compared to the Canon P...:). I do like those Barnack iii's as well if I could just get over the teeny, tiny viewfinder. (use an external VF I suppose). I may get a iii next anyway...
Thanks John, yes definitely try a Leica iii, they are better made than Ms if you like those! Yes with a nice big bright VF you can’t go wrong (see my viewfinder video if interested!) :)
I like the bw film look but i can't recognise it
What is the film's name
Fomapan 100 - the 4 shots of the girl at the end of the vid.
Oh you replied 😅 I wasn't expecting that
Any ways is there any chance to make videos about leica r lenses. I think they are better than the m lenses personally
Oh how could i iam a big fan continue making great with i have never seen someone that passionate about gear
Thanks
@@noureldainnoureldain5851 ha yes I try to reply to all comments! :) I don’t own any R lenses but if I get to test some I’ll be sure to share the results!
Can you adapt Canon 7 lenses to a Leica? Like the dream lens?
Essentially, the dream lens was built to fit ONLY on the Canon Model 7 (and 7s). The model 7 is a LTM Mount, but also has an extra bayonet portion that allows mounting the dream lens because the ltm wouldn’t be strong enough to hold the weight. Some people have successfully had the dream lens modified to m-mount, but I believe very few camera techs can do that. You can buy adapters on eBay to mount to various mirrorless cameras. It’s a beast of a lens, and has a very distinctive look that it produces.
@@mariomelillo3770 gotcha. That answers the adapting part. I have a voightlander 50mm nokton 1.1. that thing is pretty huge and heavy.
@@mariomelillo3770 thanks Mario for answering better than I could have!
Mario beat me but with a better answer. Thanks Mario. Maybe just to mention every other Canon lens except the dream lens work fine as designed on Leica. See my Canon 35mm and 50mm vids for example (on Leica).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom My Pleasure! I have 2 Canon 7 bodies, a handfull of Canon LTM glass, including the Dream Lens. I got them at an auction back in January. I love the cameras and they are what is keeping me from getting an M series Leica. I don't mind the weight, and can't see the point of the extra Leica tax! The dream lens is quite awkward to shoot with, mostly because of it's size and weight. The size is so big, that when you look through the viewfinder, almost 1/3 the frame is obstructed by the lens! But it yields really dreamy results!
The Canon 7 is big and ugly because it had to make room to mount the f0.95 Dream Lens. Unlike Canon's older smaller LTM cameras, the design of the 7 included taller and wider positioned viewfinder/rangefinder windows to clear the monstrous Dream Lens and effectively also increasing the rangefinder base to focus precisely. The Canon 7 and later model variants commemorated a final goodbye to Canon's interchangeable rangefinder lens system. Canon moved into making the professional Canon F-1 camera introduced in 1971 and the new FD mount SLR system is quite popular today.
Thanks for the info! I kept my older Canon RF which I much prefer..though I still need to use it!
lol never seen a hole i a cloth shutterlike that 😀
Ha yes it was a photo I find online, more to show how the shutter can burn that the type of damage normally seen. It’s not ally a small ‘slice’ than a round hole from what I see.
Use a cloth-shutter camera outdoors very often and you'll see it! It's more likely to happen when the lens is set at a closer distance rather than infinity, because the curtains are several mm forward of the film plane. If anybody has a beater Zorki that they'd like to immolate for the sake of TH-cam, this would be a great experiment!
@@jlwilliams I think even Zorki are too good for that.. I like my Zorki C! :) Maybe a dead one! :)
Incredible bargain. Better than a Leica in every way except the shutter is louder.
Thanks George, I prefer the older Canon's actually ( I say older.. they are more Leica iii like.. I will do a review at some point once I've used it but it looks like a keeper).
I like my Canon 7 ,the Quality of the picture are the same, I have Man hands so it's perfect.....the red dot hipster camera is to consumer hype and is for divorced Dentist who have to make up for some short......
Thanks Georg! Yes like the Canon 7 I get nice results from some of the affordable Soviet RF cameras and my film Nikons. These all offer excellent value I think.. and yes if using the same LTM lens the photos will be the same too.
s00per :)
Thanks Craig!