Goldenear Tweeter & Martin Logan tweeter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video we compare two different types of ribbon tweeters. Our goal is to find out if we can hear the difference in design.
To answer the question, yes we can hear the difference. The Martin Logan had a sharper higher pitched sound where as the Goldenear was more smooth and neutral sounding (more lifelike).
This experiment was NOT to compare overall speaker results being these are two different designs but to just hear how much different a ribbon tweeter is compared to an AMT tweeter. Thanks for watching!
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#tweeter #martinlogan #goldenear
So you have probably heard this numerous times in the 2 years since this video was posted, but to say that one tweeter you posted is an 'AMT' and the other is a 'ribbon' is incorrect. Both are Air Motion Transformer drivers originating in China, and both of them use similar materials and the same sound-producing principle. One of them comes from Shenzhen Tekzone, and the other comes from Ningbo Soundtouch, sometimes called AudioPur. ESS still owns a trademark on the name Air Motion Transformer, so while they cannot assert their patent any longer, they can continue to assert their trademark on the name, and they occasionally send threatening letters to people who are marketing an Air Motion Transformer by name, so major manufacturers usually sell their AMT drivers or speakers with AMT tweeters under a different name, such as Folded Motion, Airmotiv Folded Ribbon, etcetera. Around ten years ago, I once stood in an elevator at a trade show with a person from ESS who, upon seeing my badge, began threatening my employer with legal action over selling a product which was represented as an "Air Motion Transformer" because of this trademark issue, but nothing ever came of it to my knowledge. Still, when you're a big manufacturer (which we were not), you can become a big target for legal action.
Great story. Yes I have heard it many times. I tell people I’m only relaying the information I was told by both companies. But I do understand both designs being under the same umbrella and that companies need to differentiate themselves in some way. Thanks for watching
I didn’t know ESS was still active.
@@Audiolympianyou also compared 2 different designs. The ML is a MT design while the Golden Ear is a MTM. The radiation pattern of both is different and MTs tend to sound more open or detailed because the radiation pattern is not cylindrical like in a D’appolito configuration.
@@navinadv very good point. Thanks for your input
Had the ess bookshelf 9’s back in the day. Big Sansui receiver. Really nice high end. Got them over the JBL L 100’s. Loved them for many years. 🎼
Ooooh. Those were a nice set. Thanks for watching
I have a pair of Martin Logan 60xti towers, 50xti center channel, and sorrounds they sound amazing. For my subs I am using 2 Golden Ear super sub XXL's. Love your channel
Killer system man. I’ve come very close to getting a second xxl sub too. But I wouldn’t know what to do with my pb-16, not ready to get rid of it yet. Thanks for the support, appreciate it. Keep an eye out for our 1,000 subscriber giveaway. Should be soon 👍
Pretty close to you same speakers but have Martin logan balanced forced 212’s instead
I have exact speaker setup but svs subs, what amp are you using?
@WILLIAMMORALES-gw1zz in this video I was using my sunfire home theater amp.
I am a big fan of ELAC JET Tweeters. Very detailed but never harsh.
And yes,both tweeters compared here are also AMTs which does not mean they sound the same.
I just heard those elac tweeters. Yes very nice. Thanks for watching
Holy SYBILANCE Batman!
Haha. That’s awesome. Thanks for watching
Bro, they both are AMTs. Even the name "High-Velocity Folded Ribbon" describes what an AMT is. Just because they both tweeters are of the same category doesn't mean they are the exact same drivers or will sound/perform the same.
I thought the same thing but I spoke with Martin and Logan and they told me it wasn’t exactly the same. They said Air Motion is different. So I went with that. Thanks for watching and commenting
@@Audiolympian No, Martin Logan is not being honest. Both of these tweeters operate using the same principle.
@@gregbegland7640 thanks for the info and watching
Bad recording of Scarborogh Fair. Harsh with sibilants on both tweeters.
Yeah your right maybe on the video. But my cd is extraordinary. Love that track. Thanks for watching
Yes there is something seriously wrong about the track! (in both sound samples)
@MARVELOUDIO sorry for that. I’ll have to redo the track section. Appreciate the feedback
I'm a horn guy but liked your comparison. imho thought the Goldenear had a bit more semblance.
Appreciate your opinion and thanks for watching.
I'd love more videos like this one. Comparing driver units. I'm personally struggling making a choice of tweeter in my diy speakers. Currently I run a set of monacor ribbons, but I need to upgrade. I kinda knew from the beginning, but I had to start somewhere. I feel like the amt's has taken over in a hype kind of way. I see the advantage with parring though. As I see them, they tend to have a advantage in the hrz working area.
Anyway, thanks for showing this comparison.
Just a thought, beryllium tweeter is a way to go too. Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian thanks a lot. I'm aware of the beryllium, but I don't think I've ever heard any. I truly love the crisp sounding ribbons, and it's important to me that a new tweeter can perform like that. I can emagine beryllium would perform somewhat simular though.
How's your experience comparing ribbon to beryllium, if I may ask?
@@mowo5112 I like the sweetness of the ribbons too, the berylliums have a bit more clarity but a sharpness so the combined woofer have to be equally as good when it’s done properly like the paradigm persona line it is pretty incredible. Truthfully I prefer ribbons as well.
I'm using the monacor sph-145hq bas/mid. I really like this one and the SB Acoustics sb15sfcr-00 5"x8" passive radiator.
As for upgrade tweeter, I'm looking towards the monacor rbt-10 ribbon tweeter or something similar.
Anyway, I subbed and I'm now going through your channel. 👍🏻
Great stuff. Thanks.
@@mowo5112 thanks appreciate your support
How do these speakers handle sibilants?
I have only ever experienced one ribbon tweeter design before on some Quad s2 speakers and initially they sounded great but became really irritating with voices.
There was so much sibilants on T’s and S’s
With female voice’s.
Good question. Most people don’t think of that. The Goldenear had way less sibilant sounds over the ML but the ML handled it very well too. I didn’t hear any hiss or fuzzy enunciation on vocals at all. Thanks for asking and watching
@@Audiolympian it’s always a primary concern for me when buying speakers I have heard many bad examples over the years that have caused me problems.
I have now settled on Dynaudio speakers with silk dome tweeters.
The sound may not be as instantly exciting or vibrant but if you listen all the details are still there and I can listen for hours with zero listening fatigue a very enjoyable sounding speaker.
@@hclandscapes nice speaker! I may suggest if you get a chance to hear the new paradigm founder series speakers with its newly designed ceramic tweeter. It is incredible!
Have you ever heard or tested this one, the Panasonic Technics Legacy Audio LEAF Tweeter EAS-10TH400A that was used in early Legacy Audio speakers. I had a pair of Legacy Classic's from the 1980's that had them.
I’ve heard of that one but I’ve never had the pleasure of hearing it. I do like legacy too. Thanks for watching
Great testing
I always heard that the tube's were better!😂
Thanks for watching
Sorry dude, both use an AMT tweeter (period, end of discussion). Of course when you ask a manufacturer they're going to try to sell their's as better... but an AMT they both are.
Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian Then again Goldenear has done the very same thing by giving theirs a unique name and thereby trying to differentiate themselves from all the other AMT's coming to market. Marketing 101 ;)
Keep up the good work on your channel!
Thanks. Appreciate your support
nice presentation..thanks
@@hrvojekant9415 thanks for watching. Appreciate the support
Hi,
I read that you had the SuperSat 3 on the ceiling as ATMOS but that were planning on swapping them for the 50 or possible 60.
My room is about 13x13x9.
Do you think they don’t work that good to deliver ATMOS effects?
The others I was considering the Kef T101 and Polk OMW 3 as they are fairly versatile like the Super Sat3.
The Sat 3 is in the middle depth wise.
At what setting do you had your for ATMOS 90Hz crossover?
Thanks!
Hello thanks for the question. Yes I did swap out my 3’s for 50’s and 60’s. The 3’s were fine I just wanted to have all matching height speakers. Plus the 50’s have more depth and provide better bass response. However the 3’s have excellent range and great mid sound and can get very loud with no distortion. The ambiance sound it delivered was very good. Of course I had them hooked up to an Emotiva amp at 200 watts each. It’s a great combo. Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian Hi,
Thanks for the reply,
Do you remember if you ever have them crossed at 80 or 90Hz how they sounded at those setting?
It seem that for this smaller speaker you have to cross them at 110-120.
As you mentioned you upgraded to get more bass. I would like to get the best effects I can on the 1st go but don’t know if I could get the bigger ones.
@@theflyerpr40d I used them with my Emotiva amps and a Marantz processor which both have good bass and better control so I crossed them at 80. But with my receiver I did cross them at 110 for more depth.
@@Audiolympian Hi,
I have a Denon X4400H. I just wish the SuperSat 3 were offer in white. I guess I paint the ceiling gray and get some acoustic panel in gray.
Thanks again!
it sounded like the second song was clipping the mic. you might want to lower the dB on the recording device to compensate.
Good point. I don’t always rewatch my vids after editing them appreciate the notice. Thanks for watching
sorry if heard it correctly, is that 20?
or martin logan motion 2i? or 4i?
Yep it’s 20
Thanks for watching and commenting
Mic at that distance will not sound the same as 1- 3 meters, especially when the distance is needed to blend with other drivers. A lot of ribbons won't play low enough to cross over to a dynamic midrange without a canyon between mid and treble. . An AMT OTOH, can be crossed over well into the mids.
Good tips sir. Thanks for watching
Interesting, I have had GoldenEar Triton 3 speakers for about 10 years (still love them) but for a change I just bought Martin Logan Motion 60XTi speakers. It will be interesting to compare the two.
Oh yeah as I’m sure the motion 60 will project better. I’d be interested in hearing how they differ for you. Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian I'll let you know after a few weeks of breaking them in.
@@q3trimco 👍
@@Audiolympian I've had the ML 60s for 3 days and they are a mighty step above the GoldenEars in every aspect. Clarity, imaging, projection, realism, power and efficiency. They are seriously amazing. The Triton3s have been demoted to the theater room.
Wow. Interesting to hear that. Thanks for the feedback
High-Velocity Folded Ribbon AMT Tweeter
From the goldenear Homepage
Both are amt’s
And a AMT is not only a bullshit terrible sounding tweeter, it is almost exactly the opposite to a ribbon
Thanks for watching
The Golden Ear's tweeters are indeed an AMT design. They refer to it as a HVFR (High Velocity Folded Ribbon), which in their own material they admit is a "air-motion" tweeter. Please get your facts straight before you pass them off as such.
All I did was pass along the information that Goldenear and Martin & Logan gave to me when I spoke with them. I didn’t make these speakers, I don’t get anything from these, so perhaps you should call their engineers and tell them.
Part of the issue is not exactly dishonesty but at least hype and ornamentation from Golden Ear. Why call a plain AMT tweeter a made-up name like "High Velocity Folded Ribbon (HVFR)"? Just call it AMT like it is.
Hi, I love my Airmotiv’s from Emotiva super crisp and wide sound stage I use the C2 for my center and C1’s for my left and right I flipped the C1’s on there side and have the tweeters facing each towards the C2 and in listening to music without the C2 on and on pure direct mode it sounds like the C2 is on but it’s not everything feels center and artist is playing right in front of me I use a Denon X45H and a Upa5 amp from Emotiva I stream my music from Spotify
Awesome thanks for commenting. I’ve come close many times to purchasing the c1’s. I’ve heard many good things about them and I have been an Emotiva fan for a long time. I think I’ll pick them up now. Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian yw, keep up the good work, I have a yt channel if you want to listen to them it’s under Darin Buss
Can you list the songs you used for your testing?
Scarborough Fair - Yao si ting
Fix you - Coldplay
Daybreak - Special EFX
Audioslave - like a stone , Cochise
Santana - smooth, put your lights on
And I have a sample disc with lots of sweeps on it. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching
Bruh both are AMT, true ribbon is completely different
That’s what I thought too. All the research I did on these specific models and talking to ML and GE they say they’re not the same. But appreciate you’re comment and thanks for watching
оба одинаковые АМТ
But these two speakers have different crossovers, right? The crossover will affect the sound.
Oooh. Good catch. They do have different crossover set ups. But they both have fairly entry level networks. Your basic two way crossover midrange and tweeter. So the differences are minimal. Probably only noticeable at max output levels. Thanks for watching
... and different woofers and cabinets and design. Nonetheless, you still can compare the high frequencies.
@@saint6563 yep. Thanks for watching
Polk R400 Radiator tweeter is good or Golden ear super center? ??
Goldenear super center
@@Audiolympian What do you think about Polk L400??
@@leatijoseph828 that line is definitely killer. With its designs and new technology. To me it had a sharp sound to it. Much better than any other Polk I’ve heard before. Very clean with good bass. I just still prefer the sweet sounds of the Goldenear ribbon tweeters.
@@Audiolympian I'm thinking of going with perlisten my room is small but I'll manage for a while thanks
Martin Logan - птичьки естественнее, низ более детальный и играет ниже, чем Goldenear.
Автору видео хорошо бы знать, что: 1. при такой установке стол приподнимает АЧХ в районе 300-500 герц горбом. 2. 1. микрофон надо направлять с 1,5-2 метров 2.2. между ВЧ и НЧ , а не на ВЧ. Вывод: поэтому ВЧ здесь избыток.
Thanks for watching
И что важнее оба одинаковые АМТ
Would love to hear more of your overall comparison of the SuperSat vs. the ML
Thanks. I’ve been looking to get a set of motion 20’s to compare to Triton 5’s. To compare floor standing speakers to get a more full sound. That vid should be coming soon. I felt both the sat/bookshelf speakers are limited in frequency range and pitch because of size. They’re great for surrounds, I felt the GE’s had a more realistic sound of effects over the Martin Logan. Thanks for watching, appreciate it
@@Audiolympian With the Supersat 3 vs the 4i would either make an acceptable side and rear surround speaker?
@@hdtvkeith1604 yes both would. Although I just recently used my sat 3’s for surrounds in my theater room and they sounded fantastic, the Martin Logan’s were a little light in there.
Excellent and thanks. I have a space limitation so I can't put a traditional big surround so looking at these or even the ML 6i or 8i. I was surprised you said the 4i had bass you can feel more as it only has a single driver where the Supersat has dual drivers.
@@hdtvkeith1604 I was quite shocked with the bass as well.
I just got the Kanto TUK and the SuperSubX Powered Subwoofer! still trying to save money for a bigger set up! lol keep up the great job bro! ;-)
Thanks man. How do you like those Kantos?
@@Audiolympian it’s better good for now but the subwoofer is to much that’s why I need a powered tower speakers. Lol 😎👍🏻
@@HPMIKE55 ah gotcha, they look good. Keep rocking out brother
What about Heil AMT's?
I would categorize the newer models more like studio sound, which are still very good and they are nice and long for greater projection and a good pitch. The older model speakers are good as well just more like 1st generation models. However I have always admired their sound and quality. The speakers are good enough to last a long time.
What is golden ear definitive technology and what exactly is definitive technology?
Goldenear technology is the latest speaker line designed and owned by Sandy Gross. Which he just recently sold it to Audioquest the speaker cable company. Definitive technology was Sandy Gross’ previous speaker line he owned before he started GE. He also co- founded Polk Audio with Matt Polk before Definitive technology. I think he may have wanted to create entry level, mid level and finally high end speakers during different decades before he retired. He did exactly that. With each company he always created speakers that were ground breaking. A true legend.
@@Audiolympian You say there is no better technology than golden ear right now? after that there are definitely better speakers in my opinion
@@elcinesed1629 actually I just agree with the other people that say the Goldenear speakers are best in their class. Ive said there are no better speakers in the price ranges of each Goldenear speaker line. There definitely are speakers that are just as good like Paradigm, Bowers and Wilkins and Elac and others. And there are definitely better brands Like Wilson audio Focal and YG acoustics but you’ll have to spend many more thousands of dollars to achieve better sound. So why spend $5000 on a pair of speakers when I can get just as good performance with a pair of Triton 5’s for $2000. That’s what I refer too. Thanks
@@Audiolympian My last question is golden ear triton which do you recommend? I have a passion for big speakers. The golden ear, which has big heavy drives, on the one hand, my room on the other hand is not big, on the other hand, what should I do to get the highest version of Golden Ear?
@@elcinesed1629 I too like big speakers. That will also depend on your budget and how much you’re will to spend. If you can get a used pair of Triton 1’s those are still amazing speakers. If those are too big still you can get the Triton 2+ at the very least I’d go with the Triton 5’s
3:45 탑 트위터
4:39 센터 트위터
Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian I noticed the difference in sound quality according to the location of Twitter. Nice :D
I am preparing to install the 220V Dolby Atmos system in my car.
@@프리다이빙-c7e whoa! I bet that’s gonna be awesome in your car. Thanks for watching
There is little less bass on martin logan thats why martin souds little tweeter
Good point. Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian haha thanks. Lower the bass for quality
@@Audiolympian there was a time I use to play dsd music very loud and treble sounds analog sound
Ya folded ribbon tweeters have a quicker response to the signal than amt i got a pair of martin logans
Yes they do. Thanks for watching
I’m sorry but I don’t have any confidence in your findings. If you want to do a study on tweeters why don’t you only play frequencies that tweeters are able to reproduce? And set your play back for the tweeters to the flat setting? And remove the other drivers out of the play back so you can do a accurate study. Otherwise, your study is tanted with contaminations from the other drivers and artificial settings on your tweeters. This is the reason why you discovered problems with the second set of speakers. I hope this helps you in future experiments and studies.
Appreciate the tips. And thanks for watching
In fairness to him he didn’t say he was conducting a science experiment here
He just wanted to see if there’s a difference regardless of any other factors to the perceived higher end treble side of things between the speakers
You’re correct in saying that what he did isn’t exactly de facto but I don’t think that’s what he set it out to do either
I have never heard a planar, ribbon or amt that I have liked. They all have way to much distortion and mostly 3rd order. That's what people call "detail".😂😂😂😂
I get that. Perhaps it’s not the speakers but more the setting and the room? I know all my speakers sound better with proper treatments in my rooms. Just a thought. Thanks for watching
@@Audiolympian my room is treated as well. I design and build speaker systems. For about 39 years.
@analogkid4557 that’s awesome. Well I’m sure you have more experience than me. Appreciate your input.
whats the point ? the cabinets are soooo small ribbon tweeters or not all those speakers sound crap compared to a £300 pair of active studio monitors. 95% of consumer hi fi is shit smh..
Thanks for watching
only way to test things like this is using reference mics and doing a null test in an anechoic chamber anything else is just non empirical and totally subjective.@@Audiolympian
Both are harsh
Thanks for watching