When Should You Poach In Doubles? (Crazy Simple Tennis Tip)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2022
- Find new practice partners and match opponents with PlayYourCourt: PlayYourCourt.com/2MinuteTennis
•
I’ve had viewers ask if they could “tip” me for all the videos I make. Thank you! If you’d like to leave a “tip” it would mean the world to me and my family…
PayPal - ryan@2minutetennis.net
Venmo - @Ryan2MinuteTennis
•
Book a private Zoom tennis lesson with Ryan today! Go to onlinetraining.2minutetennis.... to have Ryan personally improve your tennis game!
•
TopspinPro Affiliate Link: topspinpro.com/ref/2minuteten...
•
When Should You Poach In Doubles (Crazy Simple Tennis Tip)
1. Most of your opponent’s outside ground strokes are hit cross court
2. Most of your opponent’s inside ground strokes are hit down the line
•
Thank you Matt Lin for allowing me to use this video: • 02 14 2015 UCLA Vs TCU...
•
You got this! - กีฬา
Play more tennis with PlayYourCourt: playyourcourt.com/2MinuteTennis
Being an old high school tennis coach I appreciate your doubles tactics videos. I always spent more time teaching skills that tactics because players often lack the skill set to apply good tactics. We would work on doubles return of serve and poaching tactics. You are right on with your assessment. Most recreational players never take the time to practice and develop the skills that are necessary. So they should get a ball hopper and a couple of practice partners and have one player hit serves like batting practice, another hit returns and have the third or fourth players try to poach. If they have a doubles match coming up I recommend two practice sessions before. You got to do the drills to build the skills and practice the way you want to play.
Mental tennis....
I think you're right about this for most beginners and intermediates. Of course a lot of these rules depend on ball that you are receiving. In this case, the returner gives the server a very weak shot, so she can hit this ball inside-in or inside-out. But it's hard to judge players on just one clip. Maybe in the past, the server might have hit a few inside-out backhands and so the net player saw a tendency here. She might have went with a hunch which got her in trouble. Advanced players typically don't do stupid things. Although I agree with you given the pace of ball, staying put made more sense because if the server hit an inside-out backhand, it's still covered by her partner. Outside shots are generally hit cross court because there's more leverage like you say but also because the timing is easier. If you want to hit outside-out, you have ball in front of you to control it.
Interesting. I had an instructor who taught the opposite, reasoning that 3.5 level players will go up the alley when they can visually see the open alley, which happens with a wider serve. Also, there is the general idea of shifting with the ball to dissect the angles, which runs opposite to this video. Martina Navratilova says to expect the returner to pull a ball that comes in at the shoulder close to the body, which fits your idea. My conclusion? It’s an empirical question.
Great 2 minute videos. Right to the point. Thank you
Ryan, I love your way to explain the strategy doubles tennis!
Good job, sir!
Great tip Ryan, thank you!
Really helpful!
Very good video! I've heard the terms inside and outside groundstrokes in so many videos for the past few months but never knew what it actually meant until now! It all makes sense now...
Glad it helped you Gustavo!
This should seriously help out, thanks!
thank you so much - you are absolutely amazing :)
I agree but I also learned that serving down the T is best for poaching since it cuts down in angle shots and goes thru the middle more. Do you think the inside/outside returns trumps this?
I also feel I get passed down the alley when my server serves out wide. When they go T I feel poaching is easier
This is because when the serve is so wide hitting it down the alley becomes an outside shot ... easier.
@@jasmine55000 but in this vid isn’t he suggesting to poach on outside shots and cover/stay on inside shots? I usually cover alley more when opponent has an outside shot and plug the middle or poach off bodzand inside shots
You follow the ball initially. I find poaching on the ad side when serving out wide to a righty backhand is more predictable. Serving wideout to a righty forehand on deuce side follows the same but usually peoples’ forehands are their best shot and they can go down the line. At least imo.
yes you should serve down the t if your partner is poaching, if you serve say wide and he poaching then your partner has left his whole side of court open....
Fantastic video Ryan.
Thanks so much Patrick!
Thanks
Loved this video! Interesting statistic on the inside-backhand groundstroke - hadn't realised it would be quite so high 70% targeting net player or tramline though it is naturally easier for a rightie to play a backhand down the line. I also think board demonstrations are seriously underused! I play doubles at club level and local leagues with partners who obsess about me manning my tramline - I am a natural attacking player (serve-volleyer or return-volleyer) and poach often (I think lengthy rallies in doubles is all wrong) and it is also my job at the net to put the opposition player off by either moving across or even pretending to go but stay put (which is what this net player in the video could have done). Also, the net player had no partner company at the net (which I also rarely have!) which is also a very common flaw in club or local league doubles matches. So at club level, I'd rather play with a net player who moves to attempt a poach and risk their line as I find staying their ground can become a permanent feature unfortunately! I also find that players tend to aim for the tramline when returning out-wide serves/returns - all the more reason for my baseline partner to move in to join me at the net so I CAN man the line and don't need to move across! Ho hum.
Tennis is a sport of a lifetime. This video will help keep the interest in a great sport of a lifetime.
Coach Ryan, love your description of Wardlaw directional inside/outside ground stroke. I will never forget now. My son's coach was describing it as if the ball crosses your body or not. Like your description better.
Your son’s coach described it perfectly. Glad this helped as well.
Your description is better because now I know it's inside and outside in relation to the court and your position on the court. Inside out forehand means is an inside forehand that you are hitting to the outside of your opponent. It's very clear now.
Just a note. Inside and outside strokes have to do with how the ball crosses body or doesn’t. Strokes on the outside of the body are inside strokes if ball doesn’t cross body. For example, if somebody hits down the line to your forehand on deuce side the ball doesn’t cross your body, hence it’s an inside ball. May not have wanted to make video too complicated but an inside and outside ball doesn’t depend on the court but the path of ball in relation to body. Important for accurate instruction and application.
You are correct!
When the returner moved to hit a run around forehand, the server’s partner should have poached because the returner’s momentum made it nearly impossible to hit down the line.
I completely agree with you. I chose to leave it out of the video tho. Thanks!!!
when a serve-return is inside-slice, not inside topspin, do you think that slicer still will tend to hit inside out or perhaps in this case since it's not a power shot the spread diagram will be more cross court?
For me it was the returners ridiculously open stance on a backhand that was my clue where she was going. Had she stepped into to it to drive it I would have been convinced it would be crosscourt. Sadly as a senior my reaction time is gone so I only go to the net to end points on weak shots. Also, this video is 9+ minutes...why isn't it 2 minutes?;-).
As a doubles player on the base line, I would never hit the ball to the net player. In this video, the base line player was lucky because the net player on the other side went to the inside, but most of the times if players hit shots like the last one, they get creamed.
When my partner's serve goes to the T, I always poach, and I am rewarded much more than burned. It's simply not easy for intermediate players to redirect the ball.
You're very convenient coach like Patrick Mouratoglou. I recommend that you should start a tennis academy in your country.
Supporting from Myanmar (Burma).
I'm gonna have to disagree with your logic there, Ryan. While it makes sense that the inside shot is biomechanically easier to hit toward the net player, the amateur player will attempt to avoid the net player much more often than not. So if, for example, he is returning a serve down the T, he will attempt to hit it back to the server, however, due to the natural difficulty of this shot - as you explained - the ball will likely have much less of an angle and can easily be cut off and poached.
I’m speaking 25 years of experience. Club players hit down the hit a lot more often on inside ground strokes. Both on purpose and inadvertently. Thanks!
@@2MinuteTennis Fair enough. Thanks
Pak you are so right
I just don’t see many inside shots hit down the line. It is definitely easier to hit it there, but in all our lessons for doubles we are drilled to hit it cross court and avoid the net player. I have tried practicing hitting the inside ball down the line, but I have not figured out how to hit it well and avoid the net player because it crosses in front of them. So I don’t do it much unless I see an opening. I do think if you get an inside ball and see the net player move it is much easier to just pull that ball down the line as a reaction.
if ball goes down the t - going for the alley is low % shot,, most of the times that gets punished by player on the net,,
I do not return my inside backhand so the net person can poach and volley. I am rt handed and if playing the deuce side I will usually slice my return deep to the server and attack
Glad to hear that !!
SO based on this, should I serve to the outside of the body instead of up the T for more poach opportunities?
Well, serving right up the T gets more returns hit right to the net player. Serving out wide gets more cross court returns so that’s when poaching is more likely to be successful
The front player should indeed play the sideline shot. Trust your teammate.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I agree with some of what's said here but isn't the timing of the girl volleying more the problem here? Of she split steps as the opponent strikes her ball she will be set neutral and can react to cover both sides and almost 2/3 of the court? The shot that leads to that scenario is a good one as it massively narrows the court abd brings the net player into the game much more, its surely the movement at the net that cost the point by opening a target in the receiving players peripheral vision?
This topic is all about choosing the right ball to poach on. Most club players don’t understand inside vs outside ground strokes. Players have to understand this before worrying about proper timing.
@@2MinuteTennis but thats what I'm asking, she moved to the centre to become a threat, on the inside ball, the outside ball she has to worry more about the alley. I think she picked the right time to move toward the middle and look for a poach, but good club players will definitely find the alley if I look for (and find) poaches from outside shots if they're opposing net player is too assertive (exceptions aside like variation or jist reacting to a slow ball or just sheer anticipation)
I got beat by a 3.0 / 3.5 player outside shot on her add my deuce down the line. You said they always go cross court in another video.
How many times did she beat you down the line?
Hmm, this contradicts common positioning principle “Follow The Ball”. Net player should go closer to alley when ball is closer to alley on the opposite side (with righty) and back+center if ball is closer to center on the opposite side. This is just example winning by hitting against common principle
I think at the 4.0 and below level poaching a good (within a foot) down the t serve deuce side is a volley winner or forced error 80% of the time. Even if it's just to their BH the wide majority of lower level players can't hit that winner down the line if you left it open. If the ball doesn't come back to server a large portion of the time it's wide or long on the return if going back to server.
If I were playing these girls I wouldn't be cheating but 4.0 and below. 100%.
Love your videos though but I do disagree with this one.
Hey thanks Alex. I’m not really talking about serve return. Serve return is premeditated and people intentionally hit cross court bc they have time to think for several seconds as they prepare. In the heat of the battle during a rally this becomes very true. Thanks!!
Ah you are correct. I see this is a rally not a return. I definitely agree then! I like how you say premeditated with the return though. Great descriptor. Thanks!
Good suggestions but I think that the fact that the net gal started out her poach so early was even more of a factor. I see someone moving like that, I'm down the line every time.
Thanks for commenting.
❤️❤️🤪🤪🔥🔥
More advanced doubles players will 9 out of 10 times avoid the net opponent and hit cross court when returning serve
Thanks for commenting Joseph!
Do you have statistics to back up your statement? 😊
No. Just 25 years of coaching experience.
@@2MinuteTennis 😋
@@Chris-yv4xg I love your instructions almost all of the time. I have been playing tennis since 1983. I am USPTA, I played on the Armed Forces team, I was the US Navy Southern Atlantic Champion, I was warmed up by Patrick Mcenroe, I feel I know a whole lot about tennis and so do you but this video does not seem like you..
I wish this were true. I could just stand at net and wait for them to hit it right to me, and then put the volley away.
We all try to avoid the net person at all cost. Inside-out, cross-court, either way.
Rather counter intuitive. You naturally tend to "follow" the ball... if the ball opens and takes your opponent out of the court, you tend to follow her to the side to cut the angle. The opposite when he strikes the ball closer to the T line; you feel he has less angle and move towards your own T line...
But the rationale of the "X axis" looks flawless...
Cheers!
In 0-40 and 15-40, I pouch
Not a bad strategy at all!
I never do that. I always hit back to the server.
Sorry but it goes against my observations of most returns from the inside shot position made with player dominant hand go cross court and they are poachable for USTA 4.0-4.5 in 30-40% cases. So please point to statistics of returns made with dominant hand on inside shots
Consider serve landing at the T in the Ad court to the returner’s dominant forehand (USTA 4.0-4.5). It is much riskier for returner to hit toward opposing team net player than hit high net clearance cross court to server at baseline or low ball into the middle of court if server got to the net comparing to hitting through net player into alley.
This is completely different from what Martina says in her videos. What makes all these videos so confusing. You would thing the down the outside or forehand would be down the line.
This seems too simple to me.