I think to qualify this great lesson, serving wide tends to return cross court, ad or deuce court. If serve is wide to the forhand on the deuce court, tendency is to pull the shot cross court, to the backhand in the ad court, return pulls crosscourt.
Doesn't the serve out wide open up the down the line return more than a t serve? I agree with poaching off a backhand but the serve choice seems backwards to me.
I agree, easier to hit down the line from out wide serve. It is a hard shot to hit a serve up the middle to the short side of the court to land in the doubles alley
On the returner's forehand (duece side for righty), then yes! But, to the outside of a backhand, almost all will return it cross court. Try it, even without poaching, and see where it goes. I've found that this works VERY well! Unfortunately, the group I play with rotates partners, so I often play with my opponents, so most of the group knows when I'm going to poach, but it's still hard to defend against.
Good planned poach video. Returner definitely helped the net guy by hitting his return high. Gotta keep it low and a better angle or it’s an easy ball to attack even for the server if he came in behind that serve and hit down at the net guy. I typically like to always serve down the T to reduce angles but If it’s a planned poach you make a good point especially if you kiss the returner keeps it high like that.
I think you make some good points but I also think you generalize and over simplify. Case in point the serve to the forehand of the add side returner. At my level 4.5, everyone goes cross court on both sides and with both handedness (left and right)- that is the default return and unless the net person is poaching that's when you go to plan B- lob, pass, slice cross court, etc.
I have a relatively strong forehand and a useable backhand. In the situation described, I will 90% of the time either push the return down the line or do a drop shot into the other side corner. This does a number of things; first my push down the line is a very soft shot. The server simply can't cover it. My drop shot effectively eliminates the poacher's advantage because he either has a tough time getting to it or he has to hit up, and you know how that ends. Even if the poacher doesn't actually poach, he is often surprised by the ball coming right at him and doesn't do much with it. You're welcome.
Can you please do a video on how he hits that high backhand volley like that? I can’t understand how he’s able to smash that like an overhead. Thanks for this video
Thanks! I only as R would return (some times) little bit later and if I see poach - just return to SP alley! It works - I know if serve is really strong it's challenge😀
Playing tennis only since three months with my 57 - but I always asked myself as a viewer since the 80ies why double players didn't always do it this way...
Might be wrong but to me it looks like a body serve which force player to use backhand in order to play cross-court, if it was more on the left player could more easily try to play the line and if it was more on the right it could more easily use forehand so probably faster return hard to poach.
Yes, the returner in the first clip is right-handed, but he is not playing the deuce court there. Confusing. Still, it was a great poach from the red team and a great strategy to play once the opposing net player tried to close in for the second serve.
The best way to learn to poach like a God is to use a good ball machine. Usually a forhand speed of rec.players is 85km/h the maximum. Set the ball machine to hit crosscourt and mark your place at the net to stand usually. Yes, you will learn easily to make your move olny after the ball is off the opponent's rasquet so no direction chanche is absolutely possible. This works great, especially those big hitters with tonns of excellent forhand have their faces frown.... As there's only a moonball for them left...
Should the returners partner been more aware of the placement of the serve? Seemed unaware. Knowing it went to the BH (and his partner’s tendencies) could be a clue the returner may be in trouble and the poach is coming.
95 percent of the time. As returner. When I see them move so early. It’s so easy for me to go down the line my backhand. Not sure what u talking about. Lol
I love your videos, but we gotta work on the audio post processing to normalize those volumes... I cranked up my volume to hear what you were saying in the beginning then got blasted with HELLLOOOOOOOO. 😀
Even if your 3.0 doubles partner cannot place their serve, you can still use this tip. As soon as you see the serve going to the returner's backhand, poach and intercept that crosscourt return.
Doesn't it depend on the quality of the serve? A weak second and the returner will drill this down the line if he sees the net player go this early? A stronger serve (like this kick high to the BH) then yes sure you can go early as he'll have a hard time smoking the return?
Love your videos, I watch everyone of them and value your analysis. In this video however it appears you select a video that verifies what you wanted to prove. You say serve to the outside (the backhand), well the 2nd serve lands right in the middle of the box. If the returner had taken the ball on the rise on the forehand it could have gone right down the line passing the poacher. Stand back a bit more on the return (Nadal) or stand more in the alley to give the forehand stroke a chance. This is more of what I would call a body serve since the receiver uses 2 hands and the natural swing is to go cross court. Since he couldn't keep the ball away from his body he hits a weak return and his teammate gets smashed. You're doing 2 a day, wow haven't done that since football practice freshman year....Kudos.
I know. But my job is to show how to poach effectively. So by choosing the backhand he was basically forced to hit cross court. Which is the perfect situation to poach on. So When people serve to the backhand it’s a perfect time to poach. Thanks!!
The guy who returned serve should have broke to his right based on his weak return because he has a chance to catch up to the volley because not always easy to out away a backhand volley on the move..
Can’t stand people who stand at the net an slam it just one more reason not to like doubles and the reason I despise pickle-ball players that’s all they do
I am playing with so much awareness now that follow you !! And I share with my team too 😊
Thank you so much!!!
Thank you very much for your instruction, this strategy will help my game.
Thanks Ryan. I love how you disect play. I am learning heaps from you!
Great video explaining the poaching
Thank you so much Jonathan!
Thank you so much Ryan...
Great lesson.
Best analyses on TH-cam
Thanks for all your tips Ryan
Loved this. Please more doubles
Fantastic video Ryan !!!
Hey thanks so much Patrick!!
wow this is so gaming professional !!! 10/10 would recommend!!!!!!
At 3:17, you said "right handed and playing the DEUCE side". Isn't this the ad court?
You are a great Coach. I wish you were based in San Diego California!
Gr8 video and advice!!
Thank you
I think to qualify this great lesson, serving wide tends to return cross court, ad or deuce court. If serve is wide to the forhand on the deuce court, tendency is to pull the shot cross court, to the backhand in the ad court, return pulls crosscourt.
Doesn't the serve out wide open up the down the line return more than a t serve? I agree with poaching off a backhand but the serve choice seems backwards to me.
I agree, easier to hit down the line from out wide serve. It is a hard shot to hit a serve up the middle to the short side of the court to land in the doubles alley
On the returner's forehand (duece side for righty), then yes! But, to the outside of a backhand, almost all will return it cross court. Try it, even without poaching, and see where it goes. I've found that this works VERY well! Unfortunately, the group I play with rotates partners, so I often play with my opponents, so most of the group knows when I'm going to poach, but it's still hard to defend against.
Good planned poach video. Returner definitely helped the net guy by hitting his return high. Gotta keep it low and a better angle or it’s an easy ball to attack even for the server if he came in behind that serve and hit down at the net guy. I typically like to always serve down the T to reduce angles but If it’s a planned poach you make a good point especially if you kiss the returner keeps it high like that.
I think you make some good points but I also think you generalize and over simplify. Case in point the serve to the forehand of the add side returner. At my level 4.5, everyone goes cross court on both sides and with both handedness (left and right)- that is the default return and unless the net person is poaching that's when you go to plan B- lob, pass, slice cross court, etc.
Ok thanks Phil!
I have a relatively strong forehand and a useable backhand. In the situation described, I will 90% of the time either push the return down the line or do a drop shot into the other side corner. This does a number of things; first my push down the line is a very soft shot. The server simply can't cover it. My drop shot effectively eliminates the poacher's advantage because he either has a tough time getting to it or he has to hit up, and you know how that ends. Even if the poacher doesn't actually poach, he is often surprised by the ball coming right at him and doesn't do much with it. You're welcome.
Can you please do a video on how he hits that high backhand volley like that? I can’t understand how he’s able to smash that like an overhead. Thanks for this video
That’s the hardest overhead.
@@bournejason66 I knowwww
it's a body serve. it goes to the backhand because the returner leans that way.
Thanks! I only as R would return (some times) little bit later and if I see poach - just return to SP alley! It works - I know if serve is really strong it's challenge😀
Playing tennis only since three months with my 57 - but I always asked myself as a viewer since the 80ies why double players didn't always do it this way...
So typically serve from the deuce side (down the T )and serve from the add side to the opponents backhand(wide?)
How do i serve to the T, in to the body, or the right or left corner?
you also have to call the service line on the serve, so you still need to be in a pos to do that..
How is that a serve on the backhand ? Looks to me that he could have taken it with forehand if he moved tower the net or on the left.
I simply used this example to show what happens if you serve to the backhand on the ad side. It’s an easy time to poach.
Might be wrong but to me it looks like a body serve which force player to use backhand in order to play cross-court, if it was more on the left player could more easily try to play the line and if it was more on the right it could more easily use forehand so probably faster return hard to poach.
Yes, the returner in the first clip is right-handed, but he is not playing the deuce court there. Confusing. Still, it was a great poach from the red team and a great strategy to play once the opposing net player tried to close in for the second serve.
I wish I could hit marks in the serve box! 😱
He served to his left hip, correct? So he was jammed. Is that better than serving to the backhand, if you're intending to poach as they were?
The best way to learn to poach like a God is to use a good ball machine. Usually a forhand speed of rec.players is 85km/h the maximum. Set the ball machine to hit crosscourt and mark your place at the net to stand usually. Yes, you will learn easily to make your move olny after the ball is off the opponent's rasquet so no direction chanche is absolutely possible. This works great, especially those big hitters with tonns of excellent forhand have their faces frown.... As there's only a moonball for them left...
Should the returners partner been more aware of the placement of the serve? Seemed unaware. Knowing it went to the BH (and his partner’s tendencies) could be a clue the returner may be in trouble and the poach is coming.
The serve was more into the body jamming the returner, who chose to step around and hit a backhand.
95 percent of the time.
As returner. When I see them move so early. It’s so easy for me to go down the line my backhand.
Not sure what u talking about. Lol
Then you are really good at tennis Teddy. Congrats!
I love your videos, but we gotta work on the audio post processing to normalize those volumes... I cranked up my volume to hear what you were saying in the beginning then got blasted with HELLLOOOOOOOO. 😀
Even if your 3.0 doubles partner cannot place their serve, you can still use this tip.
As soon as you see the serve going to the returner's backhand, poach and intercept that crosscourt return.
Doesn't it depend on the quality of the serve? A weak second and the returner will drill this down the line if he sees the net player go this early? A stronger serve (like this kick high to the BH) then yes sure you can go early as he'll have a hard time smoking the return?
i hear ya coach , but the serve was more of a body serve than a back hand serve and it forced kind of a high mishit return
I appreciate your take on the video DJ. Thanks!
Love your videos, I watch everyone of them and value your analysis. In this video however it appears you select a video that verifies what you wanted to prove. You say serve to the outside (the backhand), well the 2nd serve lands right in the middle of the box. If the returner had taken the ball on the rise on the forehand it could have gone right down the line passing the poacher. Stand back a bit more on the return (Nadal) or stand more in the alley to give the forehand stroke a chance. This is more of what I would call a body serve since the receiver uses 2 hands and the natural swing is to go cross court. Since he couldn't keep the ball away from his body he hits a weak return and his teammate gets smashed. You're doing 2 a day, wow haven't done that since football practice freshman year....Kudos.
Tks for teaching. But actually 2 minutes is enough. No need for the extra 10min, a bit long indeed.
Classic strategy. Gigi Fernandez has a video showing the same thing.
Yep! Thanks for the support!!!
Thought he was on the ad side
W
He didnt really hit it to his backhard, the receiver could have easily gone around the ball to a forehand
I know. But my job is to show how to poach effectively. So by choosing the backhand he was basically forced to hit cross court. Which is the perfect situation to poach on. So When people serve to the backhand it’s a perfect time to poach. Thanks!!
The guy who returned serve should have broke to his right based on his weak return because he has a chance to catch up to the volley because not always easy to out away a backhand volley on the move..
You are correct!
That’s a bad return of the second service.
Which we’ve all done.
That’s a high kick to the backhand. Not everyone is Mr. Djokovic
1st video that could have been done in 2 minutes …
Can’t stand people who stand at the net an slam it just one more reason not to like doubles and the reason I despise pickle-ball players that’s all they do
Tennis fraud scam game
Thanks for the comment Ayush!