TTA Podcast 112: The Mormons
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Available via BlogTalkRadio: www.thethinking...
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This episode explores the beliefs and practices of a church with over 14 million members. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (The Mormons) is, according to the National Council of Churches, the fourth largest Christian denomination in the United States.
It also finds itself constantly in the headlines over things like secret handshakes, magic underwear (temple garments), polygamy, racism, child abuse, a billion-dollar tax-free bank account and a planet called Kolob.
Our special guest is David Fitzgerald, author of the new book in the series, The Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion, "The Mormons." (Book available here: www.amazon.com/...)
Plus your calls and emails.
VIDEOS
Magic Mormon Underwear
• Magic Mormon Underwear
Endowment Ceremony Footage
• MORMON TEMPLE ENDOWMEN...
I was a Mormon missionary 10 years ago and now am an aetheist. I would give anything to have the two years of my youth back and to have lived them for myself. I cannot begin to describe the resentment I feel for the situation leading this young man to choose to go on a mission.
Had I realized then as I do now that there is no god I would never have gone on a mission, despite the consequences. Two of the best years of your only life are not worth delaying a heartbreak that will surely come to your parents when living a lie is no longer an option.
The best way to be a bad missionary is to avoid the whole disgusting situation altogether. The mission I served, though I believed I was doing the right thing and serving god at the time, is the single greatest regret in my life.
stevecass718 My friend said he was high the whole time he was on his mission! Did you feel it yourself? I assume it's feeling the spirit.
Yes there were times that I felt the sense of euphoria that the missionaries believe represents the holy spirit. I also felt guilt, pain, inadequacy, fatigue and a whole range of human emotions. I came to find out that while there were a range of powerful emotions i felt that are considered by the faithful to be spiritual, they were not evidence of any correct dogmatic beliefs or gods.
I'm sorry for your lost years. Glad to know you may now live your life with gusto and be the master of your own life. Nothing compares with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
high from drinking coffee?
Same man... I cant believe I did that. I came home from mine about 4 years ago. Atheist now.
I came out as an atheist a little over 10 years ago.
My father said said(literally) FIVE words; "Get out of my house".
All of them are Mormons.
I've always called my dad on his birthday (my mother the same) and they seriously pretend that they don't know who I am and hang up the phone...
Atheism was a very lonely path for me, as everyone I knew was Mormon and NONE of them will so much as entertain my existence.
Absolutely worth it!
I realised about two years ago that I don't need those people in my life. It was hard as Ron Jeremy's dick at first, but I came to understand that comfort with myself was paramount.
I don't need others to validate me or my lack of belief.
- Zakky
I spent the first 38 years of my life as a devout, all-in, temple attending Mormon. What a shock it was to discover that the basic history of the church is a complete lie. I have tremendous respect for other Ex-Mormons. I know it is aweful to leave. It really is social suicide. Hats off to this young man!
How fascinating it would be to hear from this young man after his mission. I guarantee he'll have some very interesting stories to tell. He will have a unique perspective into Mormonism.
***** Most Atheists come from some kind of theist background! p.s. ever seen a shadow disappear?
I don't understand your point. True many atheists come from religious backgrounds. So what?
***** Don't understand why Mormonism (Jesus Christ) receives so much attention!
Richard Holmes it may not be quite as much attention as you think. If you are a Mormon, then you're a lot more exposed to Mormonism than most people.
***** Am aware I suppose that anti-Mormons know too much about Mormonism to be of the general average populace!
From the way my mormon mother reacted when she just caught me drinking coffee, one would think I was mainlining heroin. It's sad how she believes an all powerful deity cares what I drink.
Grace H Please always separate people from the Mormon faith (Jesus Christ).
Well, coffee contains things like tanic acid. Unquestionably a lot of things you buy in grocery stores are unhealthy for you. If God exists, and I don't believe he does, I'm sure he'd want you to be healthy. And if you're American, you've got it pretty bad. Your grade AAA beef is about equivalent to our (Canadian) grade C meat.
Richard Holmes always comes to the rescue for Mormonism. Blind faith. Eyes covered, ears plugged. Science, fact denying. Mormon.
@ Grace H... just be glad you didn't spill any of that coffee on your magic underwear or you would of really been doomed
They do sell decaffeinated coffee.
When I heard about the mountain massacre where they killed the settlers and then tried to blame it on the native Americans that's all I needed to know about them.
I had a Mormon as a roommate he was always trying to convert me. He was constantly telling me how great his religion was funny he never mentioned the massacre.
Olli.
(Sorry for the 2 year response lag! I just now found Seth's great articles.)
I was a Mormon for FIFTY YEARS!! I know, I know. How F'ed is THAT?!
The thing that got me was the fact that my LDS religion was a CORPORATION. Seems innocuous, but churches that choose to become a corporation violate the "separation of church and State" clause, because the STATE then can insert itself between God and the member, via CORPORATE LAW and dictate to that church what they can say and teach and what they can't.
The problems, both legal AND scriptural, with a church corporation (ALL church corporations) is outlined perfectly in the book "In Caesar's Grip" by Peter Kershaw. (I think the book is only available at P.K.'s website.)
A bit legalistic but still VERY worth reading!
After a brief discussion with one of the upper echelon leaders in Salt Lake City, a lawyer and an apostle, on the corporate issue, I realized he was LYING to me...which caused me to realize that if he was lying to me about this OBVIOUS FACT, *what else* were they lying to me about??
I quickly found out!!
Those OTHER LIES hit me like a tsunami, and within 2 years I submitted my resignation from the church I was born and raised in! Oddly enough (or serendipitously enough) the date of my resignation was July 4th...Independence Day!!
Since leaving Mormonism, the "corporate" issue is now about 20 issues down from the main ones on my current list of issues.
Here I am 20 years later still trying to extricate myself from the Mormon CULTure mindfuck!
When I heard Joseph had been convicted I was like nope.
@@donkink3114
Joe was convicted?
Convicted of what?
Joe was murdered in 1844.
The "massacre" @ Mountain Meadows took place in 1857 (9/11).
@@donkink3114
Joe was charged with treason but was murdered before he could be tried.
He WAS CONVICTED of fraud earlier for "glass looking" (embezzlement/fraud) paid a fine and then skipped town.
The Book of Mormon was just another aspect of Joe's love of treasure seeking.
I have a Mormon friend and while they are super nice, it's painfully obvious and pitiful how brainwashed they are. They know very little of actual facts about the world and are extremely backwards on alot of things. (gay marriage etc) As an atheist it's sometimes very hard being friends with them, and I want to respect their beliefs, but sometimes it's so damned hard when all I hear spewing out of their mouths is bigotry.
+ nerdieone. I struggle with what "respect belief" means. To give you an example, I'm an atheist and used to work as a support worker for intellectually disabled adults. One of my duties was supporting a lady to attend Catholic mass. She'd participate in mass while I read a book. I had another a support worker tell me in no uncertain terms I was doing the wrong thing as I had an obligation to "respect the lady's beliefs."
It troubled me, so I brought it up with my boss. My boss told me I had no obligation whatsoever to respect the lady's beliefs, my only obligation was to respect the lady herself.
I've never forgotten it and try to apply it to all my interactions with people of faith. It's not always easy, I don't always succeed: it's hard to ignore being told you're willful, idiotic, proud and lying about your own thoughts over and over regardless of whether you're talkng to a Christian, Muslim or Deepak Chopra fan, and I do tend to snap when a complete stranger online asks if my stupidity is the result of an especially deep alien anal probe simply because I've said I'm a happy atheist , but being on the receiving end of character assassination means you know how it feels so I guess it's an oddly helpful deterrent to doing it to someone else.
Hello sorry it took so long to reply! After a while I think I'm going to cut ties with these friend. We no longer get along at all and they've just turned into a massive jerk. I should not have to respect their beliefs as they do nothing but purposely try to belittle and crush the rights of others. What's to respect about that?
the only thing you "ought" to do is respect others' rights to believe as they wish. you don' t have to respect their silly beliefs.
Why should you respect their beliefs when they clearly don't give a shit about anyone else's? And many of their beliefs are patently absurd,bigoted,and selfish.you owe them respect exactly equivalent to what they give to others,which is basically nil !
I think this thing about respecting peoples beliefs is a mistake as we are just bolstering their delusions,many belief systems do not deserve respect
"Joseph Smith died from polygamy"
-David
"Whaddya mean, like from exaustion?"
-Seth
lmao ded
hahaha...
Polygamy.. married to more than one spouse..
He died from polygamy...lol damn. Talk about a bad marriage.
Actually Joe died from POLYANDRY.
A few of the real/first husbands of Joe's women were in the mob that shot him.
First time listener ,raised in mormonism living in Utah ...when the blinders come off its just like a throat punch but am thankful for podcasts such as this wich I might add is very relatable ,u spoke to me today w ppl like David Fitzgerald,Mythvision ,Naked Mormonism,Mormon stories podcast ect.to help me navigate through this discovery of being lied to for 30+yrs.i wish they had support groups for ppl like me lol . I just steer clear of organized religious blah blah blah nowdays .
The mormons love each other until you leave and then you are the lowest low.
Islam murders their apostates.
Mormons murder (or attempt to) their apostate's reputation and character.
If the United States was an LDS theocracy, I have no doubt they would treat their apostates JUST LIKE ISLAM!
Yeah, it's tough loving someone if they consistently choose to rebel against you.
So they love you so long as you are still paying the tithe?
@@daveyjones9930 Ditto the rabid right wing Evangelicals currently lifting dirty Donald Trump up to the presidency
Hey guys- Like I said in the video, if you guys need anybody to talk to I'm all ears! Thanks again for having me on Seth, always a pleasure :)
-Brooke
I grew up in the Yukon which is not the most religious place. I was in my twenties when I discovered that Mormons and evangelicals were real. I knew that they existed but always thought that the depictions of them, the degree and beliefs themselves were creations of Hollywood. I had no idea this was real. I just cannot relate to this.
Jerad Clark Can't comment on evangelical! Don't even know what it is! But I know that Mormonism is true!
***** You're incorrect! Am certain of it!
+Prudence yes i know myself that mormons and evangelicals are real when it comes to literalism . Both groups are into literalism and both groups are exclusive. how do i know??? i. am a Evangelical born again christian and mormon convert. i am a progressive modern post modernists born again christian mormon. i dont read into everything literal either. i read things into metaphors and symbollisms as well. Both evangelicals and mormons would not agree with me reading Emanuel swedenborgs writings and Marilyn furgersons book the Aquarian conspiracy and pro gay marriage. To me gay marriage has nothing to do with literalism
How do you know it's true?
Here, Here
No prizes for guessing where the 30 "dislikes" came from.
Mitt romney and his 29 children?
minus his dog !
Of course... not even the Mitt would put internet access on top of his own cars...
istoppedthecar nine months later and there's only 33
I know where the "dislikes" come from.
THere are a group of Mormons that whenever one of them finds a video that is not Mormon friendly, that one will alert the others and they will all move in and hit the dislike button. They don't even bother to view/listen to the video.
I think they believe they earn *Jesus Points* by doing this. They are DESPERATE!!
What they don't realize is that the number of VIEWS are what counts for the video presenter....to which they are contributing.
The thumbs up or down are somewhat meaningless.
Oh yes the Mormon. We had them in our neighbourhood in hk. All tall young decent looking white men in white shirts and red ties. They specialised in teen girls. Then they disappeared all of a sudden. Mission unaccomplished?
I am an x mormon, it took me tell my mid 40's to finally investigate the truth. I am not an atheist but I have been enjoying listing to your podcasts. I try to approach everything with an open mind.
There's a superfluous 'M' in the title of this podcast...
The ormons
Brilliant! And it's MORONS!
LMAO
Another cheap shot.
Well somebody is getting very very rich off of this shit so ???
I was raised Mormon, I am surrounded by Mormons, My family is almost all Mormon. I am not a Mormon, because I can actually THINK.
WOW...BEST-PICTURE-EVER!
I absolutely LOVE the Rocket-Temple! That, with the "Kolob or Bust!" should be made into a T-Shirt :D
Wonderful information about the Mormon cult. I think people follows religion(s) out of fear of dying and out of ignorance too.
Literally listening to this on my lunch break at work. Your videos are very informative
On Amazon, his book link has the Kindle Version at $6.66, which is epic.
Seth Andrews, thank you for this podcast and your special guest David Fitzgerald discussing his book The Mormons.
I was raised Mormon, and though my family is sad and disapointed that I don't believe, they don't treat me any different at all.
+Orochimaruswife1 Congratulations on your exit from the Mormon Church. You're not strong or stable enough to be a Mormon anyhow. You saved us the trouble of throwing you out. Have a nice, unaccountable life.
+John Lee wow, I can feel the love. I'm heartbroken, sir, heartbroken! oh, how will I ever get over the tragedy of being snubbed by some guy on the internet?
oh, wait. logic. science. freedom. confidence.
you know, my most of my former "church family" members still keep contact with me and don't judge or proselytize to me. they love me in spite of our disagreements. maybe you should learn some tolerance from your fellow church goers.
+Orochimaruswife1 I have tolerance up the wazoo for church goers. Just not the exie trolls who come here to denigrate and bash my faith. Then I have a problem. You'll feel the "love" again!
+John Lee I didn't bash your faith at all. you're a bitter, rude person. I'm sorry you're so sad. have a nice day.
+Orochimaruswife1 Not sad...determined.
In the Mormon temple recommend interview, a question is asked as to whether or not someone is associating with or has sympathetic feelings toward anyone who is considered an apostate or antagonistic toward the church. If a man is excommunicated, his adult children will be encouraged to not associate with him. Personal experience.
deskjockie49 What do you expect from a religion that has a hand shake with Lucifer in their secret temple marriage ceremony? What do you expect from a church that teaches any outside opinions are to be rejected without any research, thought, or effort to investigate their validity? The Mormon church is a experiment in Utopia and mind control. The CIA hires tons of Mormons, because they know their controllable and will follow orders for the false greater good. That is what all murdering regimes want throughout history. People who will follow orders based on lies falsely believing they're doing what's right, or best to protect society etc.
These people believe that they live forever no matter what. Even though the bible says if you don't repent, follow Gods Commandments and Jesus' teachings your soul will perish on the last day. They also teach that Jesus is God. Jesus is the example and son of God, but not God. Remember the Commandment that says don't create a image, or likeness of anything and worship it, or buy it? That includes images of Jesus printed by religious profiteers. A man once accused me of being a scam artist for getting involved with some new business associates that did bad business. When I asked him what he did for a living he said " I sell religions artifacts imported from Israel such as wood, rocks, etc. Can you believe the hypocrisy of some people. They would sell their own children for material gains. Religions profiteers are Lucifer following con artists and you will find these professional selfishly criminally insane people throughout societies in key positions to mislead, rob, and enslave all civilizations. Around 10% of money donated to organized religions and most charities goes to actually helping people. The rest goes to all the people involved in the scam so they can lie for a living rather than work.
Tom TruthSeeker I was a card-carrying member for over 40 years and attended the temple numerous times. I don't recall any "hand shake with Lucifer" in the temple ceremony. Where did you hear this?
A witness testimony. A woman who joined to please her boyfriend and marry him. She said after all the temple rituals she was convinced it was a occult ceremony. The swearing to keep the secret for life on your lives etc. I also knew another man witness that was convinced it was occult and he had sold his soul by being convinced by his girlfriend to marry her in the temple. Feel free to share your experiences as so few are honest these days. I do understand word of mouth eye witness accounts can be less than completely accurate.
Tom TruthSeeker
True, what we remember is filtered through our own perception. However, though I no longer believe the temple ceremony is anything but an extrapolation of Masonic rituals, I do not remember any "hand shake with Satan", and I attended numerous times. I also do not believe it is anything but a juvenile club ritual and really means nothing at all. I believe the man you mentioned above has nothing to worry about. There is a principle in law wherein two parties make a contract and one party withholds information that would influence the other to not enter the contract. That withholding makes the contract null and void. No full disclosure, no contract.
My parents are currently Mormon; both of them converted shortly after my eldest sibling was born. Yet I never truly experienced the full religious experience simply because our financial and geographic situation meant our parents only had the energy and time to attend the Sunday 3-hour church service twice a month or less, and Wednesday 1-hour activities with equal frequency.
This distance allowed me to realize as a preteen exactly how unrealistic the religion is, and I became an atheist. Despite this, I continued to tag along to church and activities when necessary because I didn't want to fight with my parents about it.
Another part of my reluctance to speak out was because of the help the church had provided throughout my childhood. For years, my parents have struggled to make enough money. Whenever we lacked the funds to pay bills, the Mormon church would pay our rent or give us groceries, etc. My father would also help other families through his woodworking skills or simple physical labor. My mother would sew blankets or bake.
So my experience with the LDS has been generally kind and positive, yet through it all I kept seeing these acts through a skeptical lens.
For example, one of the activities that youths participate in perhaps once or twice a year is known as "Baptisms for the Dead". Yes, it is exactly as sketchy as it sounds. I have no idea how the dead individuals to be baptized were chosen, so perhaps they find ancestors of current Mormons or maybe it's just random names. I don't know. What I do know is the process that takes place.
A group of Mormons will get temple passes scheduled so that they may enter the temple. It's a simple piece of paper that you have to go through an interview with an elder (always men) to get. He'll ask you if you believe in Jesus Christ our Savior, do you believe that Joseph Smith was the Prophet, do you believe x, and do you believe y. It takes about five to ten minutes but it feels very awkward. Then, at the temple itself, each person will be loaned a set of the mentioned magic underwear. We would put that on and then gather in a room where a group of elders would place their hands on my head and read off the list of three or four names that would be baptized through me. Then they would move on to the next person with another three or four names, and so on. Next everyone would form a line leading to the marble baptismal font - a waist high ultra fancy kiddie pool. This is where we would be baptized multiple times in a row - once for each name. That's the end.
This practice always struck me as manipulative and idiotic. It's supposedly meant to "give everyone a chance to go to heaven" because baptism is a prerequisite to entry. Except that the people who are "being baptized" are already dead. If you believe in an afterlife, they already got sorted and placed. If you don't believe in an afterlife, you're performing and empty and meaningless gesture.
Another major problem that stood out to me was the selection of a new "Prophet". I'm vague on which level of Mormon authority deals with this specifically because this concept was introduced on one of the days that we couldn't make it to church, and my knowledge of this comes from references made between my "classmates" aka the other young girls in my age group.
As far as I am aware, the Quorum of the Seventy is what deals with choosing a new Prophet. These seventy elders will enter a room and pray for God to give them a sign of who should be chosen. Only a unanimous choice is considered a true sign, and they will not leave that room until they have that sign. There is nothing to say that they are actually getting a message from God rather than just debating between various candidates. No matter how I think about it, I cannot imagine the denial of reality that leads people to truly believe that God personally chose each and every one of their Prophets throughout history.
Anyway, sorry for the lengthy comment. Have a good week y'all.
I was raised Mormon and thank "god" I wasn't in as serious of a position as this kid at the beginning was. I knew from a young age that I never wanted to serve a mission and I told my parents that. I actually ended up rebelling and skipping church at the age of 13. I got grounded several times, but eventually my parents just gave up. I had a lot of issues with my parents on the music I listened to, the things I did to disappoint them, and items I owned. ( I had a poster of a giant glow in the dark marijuana leaf on my wall as a teenager and I actually got away with having it, parents never made me take it down) And my parents were pretty strict Mormons. My main point, from my point of view, is that the way I see it, Mormonism is not NEARLY as intense as most Christian religions. At least from my perspective even being in a strict Mormon family. I feel like I had it pretty easy compared to a lot of personal stories I have heard from The Thinking Atheist podcast. Non the less, the Mormon church is a money hungry cult organized business making billions of dollars off its members and I am proud to have nothing to do with it, or any other religion for that matter.
His story was similar to mine. I felt like I had to go on my mission.
My only Son is being raised Mormon, This scares the crap out of me. Very militaristic!
Why are you not in his life?
@@jordanallen3078
Because he's not mormon.
Many families have survived such an event.
If your son is smart, he'll wake up and realize he's in a cult.
Give him time...
always take two Mormons fishing because if you take just one he will drink all your beer...This is why Mormon missionaries go in pairs, to keep each other in check!
LOL John like your comment.
Thank you both for your great work!
I think the series you're thinking of is called "Big Love", with Bill Paxton as the male lead character, Bill Henrickson. It deals with the fundamentalist polygamist Mormons living out in the sticks as well as in the suburbs of Salt Lake City. It's some crazy stuff.
No Man Knows My History by Brodie is a great book that every Mormon should read.
OK, but wouldn't be awesome if the Mormon Temple was really a spaceship?
NICK ALIMONOS no it would not.
Yeah, it would be if the SL temple was launched the one Thursday when the entire Quorum of Apostates was in attendance to their weekly meeting.
Lori Vallow is depending on it!!
The one in San Diego looks like Cinderella's castle at Disneyland. When we first moved here, my son was young and he excvlsined, "Disneyland!" when we passed it on the freeway. LOL.
"Steampunk Scientology" 😂😂😂
@37:00 Don't know where David got that "black skin" interpretation from. The CES doctrine taught in the 60s (and I never read or heard anything different until I left 45 yrs later), and part of the missionary discussions, was that followers of Lucifer REMAINED in spirit bodies, sent down to earth as spirits, and eventually to Outer Darkness. Black skinned people, supposedly descendants of Cain, were those who were indifferent in the War in Heaven, never taking sides.
WRT garments, a person has as many pairs as wanted, no limit there. Choice of different fabrics and styles for the last 40 odd years. There IS a difference between what orthodox/fundamental members say & do about wearing them, and what the instructions are about wearing them in the temple. Newbies are instructed to wear them at all times, day and night, but the context there is any time a person has occasion to be normally dressed (including sleep). Certainly not when bathing, not when swimming, not during military basic training, and not during sex. But I did run into a few nutcases over the years who thought they were required to wear them during sex. Joseph was NOT wearing his when he was assassinated in jail. A bit of lore has crept into the discussions of garments over that, which are entirely specious beyond what firsthand reporting said of it.
I'm glad you've done this. I volunteer at the Salvation Army (yes ironic I know) and we have "elders" and "sisters" that comes to do volunteer work. It's nice to know why they do the things they do...
Hello Seth, i was wondering whether "Tim" ever reported back on how he's doing. I hope he got out ok. Thank you for your great shows,keep up the good work, lots of love from Romania!
I'm a 17 year old agnostic and love all these videos. I am in the same situation as "Tim". If anyone has any questions answered from someone who spent 17 years in the church feel free to direct them towards me. I'll try to answer without bias one way or another
Thank fuck my parents are atheists.
+Erato IsYourMuse - Please. Do tell me more about this Fuck character, and how did he/she play a role in your parents being atheist? - :)
Lol. I suppose that could have been worded a little more appropriately.
It would make a great name for a god though.
"Praise Fuck".
I'm going to register the website and start taking tithing.
You should needlepoint that on a pillow
Amen to that!
It is not about me missing them, it is about them and me knowing that they had, as most people do, more to do and I feel for their loss, that is what I really have to deal with.
Paul
The idea of Kolob is so ridiculous, that for years Mormons in the Medford-Phoenix, Oregon area wouldn't even reveal it as part of Mormon theology. If I mentioned it and asked them questions about it, they would change the subject!
Also we can tell the Book of Mormon was written in the 1800s, because it refers to late Bronze Age soldiers possessing "swords of finest steel", which of course hadn't been invented yet. Joseph Smith was a product of his time, and he was a poor editor of his little invented book.
I have a friend who is a practicing Mormon but also a natural-born free thinker and scientist, and who probably would have loved to call in for the show. He doesn't let belief get in the way of his studies as a science student and indeed has a healthy respect for atheists. He probably would have loved to call in for this episode.
It's "Jesus: The Western"
Thinking Atheist.
"The MALL" in SLC, did not cost 5 billion $. The final numbers put the figure at 1.5 billion $$.
STILL!!
HOLY SHIT!!
"Sacred" money from church is used to build a mall?...while out the other side of their duplicitous mouth they tell members to not be "in the world" (worldly).
I was a Mormon, served a mission, attended BYU as well as a Counselor in a Bishopric (leaders of a congregation). I grew up and left Mormonism about 20 years ago.
Except for the "5 billion" you covered it well!!
Another good Inet LDS related site is cesletter.org...although it attacks many of the points of interest on Mormon history and doctrine, it's mainly helpful to Mormons who know LDS history and doctrine. It's probably responsible for 10s if not 100s of thousands of Mormons hitting the chapel exits never to return, and is likely the most effective web site leading Mormons out of Mormonism.
Excellent podcast!
When the young lady quoted the prayer verse from the Book of Mormon, I was surprised she didn't mention that the verse actually asks the reader to pray to know if it is NOT true, instead of asking the direct question of "god" if it IS true. This verse always confused me because of this strange wording.
Brooke sounds awesome! :)
I live in india and on one hot blazing summer afternoon, two Mormon missionaries got me on the road. They were looking so sunburned and dehydrated, I felt so bad I invited them home and
Gave them something cold to drink and something to eat. We ended up talking about snow boarding. They had no energy to preach 😅but we had a good conversation.
Mountain meadows would of been kept under the rug until some construction company unearthed a bunch of bones...
To answer the question at 50:00 minutes, it's a personal preference as to how many sets of garments a person owns. I am not a garments wearing member, but my wife is a temple recommend member and she buys couple pairs at a time. BTW, our oldest son is readying himself to go on a mission. I am also a recent closet atheist/agnostic/deist, I haven't decided which yet. I love this channel and also love watching videos of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Bill Maher, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Penn Jillette, Richard Carrier, and my most favorite, George Carlin.
Sean....
Just run...run farcaway from them.. you will most likely lose your family if they do not go with you though..the church will see to that.
You'll probably have to move to a whole new area..start fresh and never let the local church community know your an ex mormon. Good luck to you.
I’m a long time Fresno resident, so proud that David is a product of cal state Fresno!!
I’ve read all his books as well as your Seth.
Come see us in Fresno.
My house is your house!
And yes they can have more than one pair of magic underwear.
You can’t make this stuff up.
It’s amazing
lol, personally I like to use the flying spaghetti monster
Yes I use those two area codes, too. I always find it amusing to see people from close by on a site as big as youtube. And it's also nice that they're a fellow atheist/free thinker!
There are a lot of Tim's in the world!
I love the graphic w the flying spaceship temple.
Whatever happened to Tim anyway?
My son told me he is an atheist, and I was the one who was pretty devout, at the time. My husband was raised in a very stoic Anglican church, and he never went with me or participated. It wasn't his thing, and HE was the one most upset about it. He kept saying, "Well you're really like...AGNOSTIC...as in, " You mean that you aren't sure." And our "man for his own time" son said, 'No. I am sure." We totally respected his deision. He has a right to live his own life. I raised him to think for himself, even though I exposed him to Sunday school and stuff. I never made a deal about his getting baptized or confirming his faith. I also didn't care that he had no use for the youth group in Jr. High and High School. I am still at the "I'm not sure what I believe" stage, but leaning toward saying, "This is all horse shit" phase. It fluctuates. I definitely do not acknowledge the "sacred holidays" that are rooted in paganism, so...I am halfway there. I had a couple of unexplainable experiences that make me wonder WTF else there might be. I don't know. But I love your broadcasts.
How the hell could an atheist go on a mission and try to proselytize people knowing that what they're telling is just out and out BS?
I was the only active Mormon in my family. I was achingly preachy trying to bring it up all the time. When I left the church, I went totally atheist. At church you must wear a suit or white shirt and tie. No outlandish clothes or hairstyles.
“Tim” you’ve got plenty of support down here in Fort Worth, Texas
The term elder is certainly strange. One of my friends is Mormon and one of two of his mormon friends came over to see his new baby awhile ago. They looked quite young maybe about 22 to 25 or so. I just thought it was very strange how they actually introduced themselves as elder so and so (I can't remember their names now). These guys are practically kids and addressing themselves as elder? I thought it was just weird.
It's just a title
RumTumTuggy
It's pretentious. Plus, Mormons hate women.
Spouting off random opinions of the LDS not backed by fact but simple conjecture based upon those whom have never even entered an LDS church and a few who entertain convoluted ideas about the church because they are unhappy with their own place in life, only serves to illustrate your own immaturity and ignorance about the entire subject. Keep your snide and ill-considered remarks to yourself unless you want to show off your ignorance.
RumTumTuggy
Your comments only illustrate how easy it is for people to be brainwashed into believing the dumbest things. Do you really believe Joseph Smith received sacred information on magical golden plates that somehow mysteriously disappeared? You know, before anyone else could see them and examine them to know if they were real? Do you think there MIGHT be a possibility that he, like every other religious leader in the world, was simply making up stuff to lure the gullible into his weird new cult? Because that certainly is what it looks like from where I'm sitting. It looks that way to lots of other people, too, especially those who finally got smart and left this cult while they had a chance. It is not their fault if your beliefs are silly. You should quit believing silly things, too, and then you wouldn't be made fun of.
There were eleven other men that stated they saw the plates before they were taken back into Moroni's custody. So no, he was not the only one to see them. I guess if he did make a new cult to have gullible followers, why would he have died for it? Why was his testimony sealed in his blood? Why would he and his family and friends endure so much hardship and trial even from the age of 14 from men who supposedly "knew" god? We know
"6 Now ye may suppose that this is afoolishness in me; but behold I say unto you, that by bsmall and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise.
7 And the Lord God doth work by ameans to bring about his great and eternal purposes; and by very bsmall means the Lord doth cconfound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls." Alma 37.
Here are the circumstances surrounding the translation of the Book of Mormon. After reading these tell me that he made it up.
You must be between twenty-three and twenty-four years of age.
You cannot be a college graduate. In fact, you can have only three years of formal schooling.
Whatever you write must be on the basis of what you know and not what you learn through research.
You must write a history of an ancient country, such as Tibet, covering a period from 2200 B.C. to 421 A.D.
You must write a book with 102 chapters, twenty-five of them about wars, ten about history, twenty-one about prophecy, thirty-two about doctrines, five about missionaries, and nine about the mission of Christ.
You must include in your writings the history of two distinct and separate nations, along with histories of different contemporary nations or groups of people.
Your writings must describe the religious, economic, social, and political cultures and institutions of these two nations.
You must weave into your history the religion of Jesus Christ and the pattern for Christian living.
When you start to produce this record covering a period of over twenty-six hundred years, you must finish in approximately eighty days.
When you have finished, you must not make any changes in the text. The first edition must stand forever (this does not include grammatical errors, etc).
After pauses for sleep and food, if you are dictating to a stenographer, you must never ask to have the last paragraph or last sentence read back to you. You must start right where you stopped previously.
Your history or record must be long, approximately 777 pages with over 500 words per page.
You must add 180 proper nouns to the English language (William Shakespeare added thirty).
You must announce that your "smooth narrative" is not fiction, but true-yes, a sacred history.
In fact, your narrative must fulfill the Bible prophecies; even in the exact manner in which it shall come forth, to whom given, and its purpose and accomplishments.
You must publish it to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, declaring it to be the Word of God.
You must include with the record itself this marvelous promise: "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
Tens of thousands must bear record to the world for the next 178 years that they know the record to be true. Because they put the promise to the test, the truth is manifested to them by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Thousands of great men, intellectual giants, and scholars, must subscribe discipleship to the record of its movement, even to the point of laying down their lives.
There can be no flaw, whatever, in the entire book (except in grammar, or other errors of man in transcribing, etc.).
Your descriptions of the cultures in these civilizations, of which you will write about, is not known when you publish your manuscript.
Yet, you must not make any absurd, impossible, or contradictory statements.
Even so, many of the facts, ideas, and statements given as true in your record must be entirely inconsistent with, even the direct opposite of, the prevailing belief of the world. Yet very little is even claimed to be known about these civilizations and their thousands of years of history.
You must invite the ablest scholars and experts to examine the text with care. You must strive diligently to see that your book gets into the hands of all those most eager to prove it a forgery and who are most competent to expose any flaws in it.
After 178 years of extensive analysis, no claim or fact in the book is disproven, but all are vindicated. Other theories and ideas as to its origin rise and fall, leaving your claims as the only possible ones.
Thorough investigation, scientific evidence, and archaeological discoveries for the next 178 years must verify your claims and prove even the minutest details of your history to be perfectly true.
Internal and external prophecies must be confirmed and fulfilled in the next 178 years.
Three honest, accreditable witnesses must testify to the whole world that an angel from heaven appeared to them and showed them the ancient records from which you claim your record was translated.
You must hear out of heaven the voice of the Redeemer declaring to you and those three witnesses that your record is true, and that it is their responsibility to bear testimony of it-and that they do.
Eight other witnesses must testify to the world that they saw the ancient records in broad daylight, and that they handled them and felt the engravings thereon.
The first three and the second eight witnesses must bear their testimony, not for profit or gain, but under great personal sacrifice and severe persecution, even to their deaths.
You must talk a friend into financing your book with the understanding that he or you will never receive any monetary remuneration from it. This person must mortgage his farm to have it printed. You must sell the book at cost or less.
Finally, after suffering persecution and revilement for twenty-four years in the process of producing and defending this book, you must give, willingly, your own life for your testimony that the record is of God.
I am an Athiest. I love you show Seth. One of my shoe string relatives was Sydney Rigdon. I was raised in an evangelical UCC church, so I was never a Mormon.
I just realised that Kolob said backwards sounds like Bolok, which in English slang with a letter “s” at the end means crap, or garbage. Written as Bollocks. Lol 😂
Advice to “Tim”: Use caution if you plan to proactively be a “bad” missionary; it will get you sent home early *dishonorably.* I’m certain a “dishonorable discharge” will be far worse for your parents than if you just hadn’t gone in the first place.
The guy that called and said "I am an Atheist but I am but I am addicted to the Religion topic" I can SO identify with you man. I am no where near the fence but I am totally hooked, I find it fascinating that so many people take obvious fantasy so serious.
I think this comes from our drive to help people, I feel like I could plant some seeds of logic in an argument that may grow into a tree of reality check.
51:00 I like that you guys mentioned this. Even when I was a mormon missionary, it always grinded my gears when other christians would call us out for having ridiculous beliefs. I always wanted to say, "Have you read your fucking bible?"
I always order a book of Mormon when I move and at least once a year when I haven't moved in a year. Everybody should do this to do their part in bankrupting the church.
Seth, I had multiple pairs of garments (as did all Mormons). There are all different fabrics and styles. But always "blinding white" in color. They would get worn out and faded pretty easily. So of course, I had to buy them often. And they weren't cheap. I'm happy to be free from that cult.
David is one of the nicest people around.
During the NY World’s Fair (1964), a Mormon rep responded to my outrage that was written on one of their “feedback” cards. They actually followed up and visited my home!! How goofy do you have to be to show up at the home of African Americans to tell them they’re cursed??!!😡
It's shows drive that Shaun keeps going back to the Mormon service.I went once and my Mormon "friends" couldn't get me to go again.
I keep getting ads for Gaia on skeptic videos.... That shit is bananas!
I'm a "Mormon" and proud of it. We are truly followers of Jesus Christ and we know and believe God lives and loves everyone regardless of your beliefs and things you do. If you guys really want to know what we know and believe don't google or listen to people who think they know the truth about the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints just go to the church and get the information from the actual source.
Then why oh why does your religion not allow knowledge of seculer learning or anything outside the Mormon church ?surely if your religion is real and people are solid in belief then surely they can be trusted to hold to their religion even if educated in other things,this to me is what shows that church leaders have no real faith that their religion can withstand free thinking,this shows how weak they think their hold on people really is
1:33:49 the Star Trek episode is called “The Alternative Factor”.
My parents are super devout Christians. They think they did something wrong when raising me. As much as I try to explain to them that I don’t believe because it doesn’t make sense. They are convinced however that they failed and something traumatized me in the church
I actually learned about all the lies of Mormonism on my mission to Seattle, Washington. Out of fear, and getting married in the temple after my mission, I remained a Mormon until I was 38 years old. I still received intense persecution, such as Mormon neighbors yelling at me from across the street claiming I was a liar and criminal... I had no criminal record whatsoever but that didn't matter to them. My Mormon family and friends spread one lie about me after another. Every rumor was about me leaving the church because I had committed multiple sins and didn't want to confess them... this was also false!!!
i'm an ex mormon and a former missionary. mormons can buy as many pairs of garments as they want. when they're old and worn out you're supposed to cut out the symbols on them before you throw them away.
I really wish I could have called in. I have a mormon girlfriend, and after months of her begging i decided to go to a service on Easter. I wish I could have shared my thoughts, and things ive learned and discovered.
If any of you guys have seen season 4 of dexter. Take note to how the perfect family is and they're serial killer/religious dad is. Thats' how it is in utah. Everyone puts on that super friendly and perfect face..
You're very mature "pointing and laughing" at people for their beliefs. But you're right it does say a lot about me. It says that I actually stuck around long enough to have answers to my prayers that all these labels people have created for the LDS church are not true. It says that I know something about commitment and understanding. It says that I'm not looking for the bad in everything and everyone. It says I don't look for the easy way out of doing the right thing. So yeah you're right.
I am from Missouri, and always wondered how much wild weed Joseph Smith was token out there in his corn fields. Marijuana grows wild throughout Missouri.
I wore garments. I had different fabrics for different climates and I had khaki military ones. The symbols are reversed on them so they aren't visible when my blouse was off.
I met a Mormon girl who was an alcoholic and a lesbian, she’d fallen or whatever from the church. She’d say the women “made” her be a lesbian. During the time I knew her she had gone back into the church, and she was telling me the sermons were telling her to prepare for the end of the world. Which I just was polite and said I didn’t really believe all of that. But it’s sad because she was down on her self really bad for being a lesbian and then she was an alcoholic and needed help for that but she was turning to the church. It was sad
Might want to rethink the title, Robert L. Aspirin wrote a humorous fantasy novel entitled "Myth Inc. In Action".
Love the episode. I always close the video when you get to callers and this one had lots of good content before then :)
...They should, of course, have a good understanding and testimony of the gospel before going on a mission. The MTC is to familiarize them with the framework of the lesson plans and develop their teaching skills. The lessons they teach focus on introductory/basic principles of the gospel. Some missionaries have an advanced knowledge of the gospel, some only a basic understanding, but every missionary's role is to teach the basics to people, not debate about scripture on in advanced level.
There is a way around this.
I have addblock instaled on Chrom and I open vids that I like/ Videos of content creators I want to support on an extra Browser (firefox) as well as on chrom. This way I can skip the adds and still support the people I want to.
Also, a fun fact, the 2nd "M" in Mormon is silent.
There are anti-science and evolution adds? I havent noticed because I have used adblock since forever, but are there seriously adds like that? That's a crime.
Yes. The look on his face as Dawkins describes his religion is priceless.
Really? Awesome! I have two numbers I call in from, one being 636 and the other being 314 depending on if I'm using the home phone or my cell. There was another caller once that had 314, so it's cool when you realize there are people from the same area!
The first (three?) gospel stories were composed by Flavius Josephus, aka Joseph Bar Matthias, but known to his friends as Tiberius Julius Alexander. They were written in the imperial palace under emperor Flavius Titus.
Ok.. but I also have a friend who was with the church then left & pretty much agreed. You should also try watch Religulous, more specifically the part where he interviews two ex-Mormons.
You're not alone.
I clicked the video to watch and the first words I hear is, "You believe in God."
It took me a second to see it was an add for something called daily bible. Just the thing I am looking for when I go to watch or listen to something by and for atheis.
A couple points of clarification, since no one answered them during the show.
1. Missions are not truly mandatory, but they are expected for all male members.
2. Mormons can buy as many sets of garments as they want.
3. Much of what you hear about Mormons is just culture, rather than doctrine. There is no sanctioned shunning and no bullet-proof underwear except where individuals choose to believe in it.
4. Mainstream Mormonism currently FORBIDS polygamy.
Source: ex mormon
"Never seen bigger hearts", "Just absolute kindness", "genuinely loved each other",
"if you don't buy the Joseph Smith story, the consequences can be pretty hairy."
Never heard a more blatant contradiction in my life. Plese don't call people who are ready to cast out their children and make their lives a misery "loving"!
I am one of their many victims
Actually thinking about it even that isn't a satisfactory analogy because you can still guess the number of pennies in the jar.
Maybe a better analogy would be somebody claiming without prior knowledge that one of the pennies had the Cat in the Hats portrait on it and this penny could cure any disease. That would be more like the situation we face.
One of the best coffee with Claire episode was when she was making fun of Mitt Romney in planet Kolob in a spacesuit, after he lost the presidential election.
I got an ad for "The Amazing Re-blooming Rose of Bethlehem" necklace.
Talk about poor targeting.
Before the video, the ad I got was a magician who is using his magic act to spread the gospel, haha. He was braging about his new program he is using to do his shows in schools.
That's a bad example, because odd and even are the only two possibilites an integer number of coins can be; you can't reject all but one possibility and say that you don't accept that remaining possibility. In fact, an entire method of proving called proof by contradiction relies on this simple fact.