The Constitution of Athens

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 1.6K

  • @UDumFck
    @UDumFck 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1993

    Thumbs up due to the beautiful flowers @14:05! :)

    • @feynstein1004
      @feynstein1004 7 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      Username checks out

    • @alibryant8588
      @alibryant8588 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Patreon saw it first

    • @chadsknnr
      @chadsknnr 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Agreed! I thank HC for his elucidation. I hope he eventually makes a presentation about the other Greek city-states, too. No one ever discusses them . . . .

    • @amandacamilleri1239
      @amandacamilleri1239 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Udumfck h

    • @ericsilver9401
      @ericsilver9401 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@chadsknnr yo mama

  • @feynstein1004
    @feynstein1004 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3087

    Watching the video in 4K. You can really see how sharp the edges of the tiny squares are. 10/10

    • @philherb0656
      @philherb0656 5 ปีที่แล้ว +93

      At 60 frames a second you can see how fluent their movement is

    • @ZachAgape
      @ZachAgape 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      dude xD we shouldn't have 4K on these types of videos, especially if it's to be watched on sub-4K screens… lots of pollution caused by these heavy data transfers.

    • @LuizAlexPhoenix
      @LuizAlexPhoenix 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @Edgar Banuelos
      Delete System32

    • @ZachAgape
      @ZachAgape 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @Edgar Banuelos What do you mean sorry?😁 it's not an issue of ram, it's an issue of pollution, of energy consumption.

    • @tada-kun982
      @tada-kun982 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@LuizAlexPhoenix @Zacharie Chiron prolly means that producing this simple style (with a lot of viewers maybe watching on phones for example) in 4K is a waste of energy

  • @jasondoe2596
    @jasondoe2596 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2686

    It's worth mentioning that the "ostracised" person could keep all his property, and he and his family would suffer no other repercussions other than his forced physical absence from the city for 10 years.
    The goal was removal from the political life, not punishment of any sort. For the Athenians, it was inconceivable that a citizen would be physically present but not participate in politics - even implying that someone didn't want to engage in "the common" [public matters] would be a huge insult. The modern term "idiot" comes from their word "idiotes", meaning the person who only cares about his private matters.

    • @ProfessorSyndicateFranklai
      @ProfessorSyndicateFranklai 7 ปีที่แล้ว +235

      Well then, in America, I could say we are a nation of 'idiotes'.

    • @blugaledoh2669
      @blugaledoh2669 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Eliott Afriat Lol

    • @IkeOkerekeNews
      @IkeOkerekeNews 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Francis Lai
      Wrong.

    • @feartheghus
      @feartheghus 6 ปีที่แล้ว +67

      Really though, in every single place where there is a group of humans the majority are idiots, and I dare say America has more people who are not idiots than many or even most other countries.

    • @Weltall8000
      @Weltall8000 6 ปีที่แล้ว +143

      Most Americans do not participate in politics, even at the voting level. It would be apt say that most Americans would be idiots, going by this reasoning.

  • @drewinsur7321
    @drewinsur7321 7 ปีที่แล้ว +978

    last time i was this early the spartans could field 10.000 citizen soldiers.

    • @hattiewhitson7736
      @hattiewhitson7736 7 ปีที่แล้ว +76

      Drew Insur that’s a lot of squares

    • @thoshinoshi
      @thoshinoshi 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@hattiewhitson7736 or one really big one 🟥

  • @tombomb1506
    @tombomb1506 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1594

    2:23 "Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Basileus the greek?"

    • @oWallis
      @oWallis 7 ปีที่แล้ว +71

      I am the King..

    • @EpaminondastheGreat
      @EpaminondastheGreat 7 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      You are cute...

    • @jophielswings
      @jophielswings 7 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      I love you so much right now.

    • @basileus1092
      @basileus1092 7 ปีที่แล้ว +153

      "It's not a story a Turkish nationalist would tell."

    • @res_publica_romana
      @res_publica_romana 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Salve, Cicero!
      I like your Avatar man. ;)

  • @user-zp8ei6pi7p
    @user-zp8ei6pi7p 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1196

    Only this man could get me to watch a full video about paperwork of a dead government over 2,000 year ago.

    • @ΦώτηςΓιαννακόπουλος-ξ3ε
      @ΦώτηςΓιαννακόπουλος-ξ3ε 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      B We still have democracy.. what you mean dead?

    • @user-zp8ei6pi7p
      @user-zp8ei6pi7p 7 ปีที่แล้ว +68

      1st off no we don't have a democracy we have a republics, but that aside I was talking specifically about the ancient government of Athens

    •  6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Φώτης Γιαννακόπουλος we don’t have what Athens had anywhere in the world

    • @bobby8012
      @bobby8012 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Who is "we" are you guys talking about America?

    • @bagiee1
      @bagiee1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      "We"...as in every country in the world. No country in the world has Democracy today. Only One that comes close is Switzerland.

  • @jacobhood5770
    @jacobhood5770 4 ปีที่แล้ว +156

    The use of broken pottery is actually genius. It meant that no one could fake ballets, since their fake ballets wouldn’t fit back into the reassembled pot.

    • @FlameQwert
      @FlameQwert 3 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      holy shit i didnt notice this

    • @Rale881
      @Rale881 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      This comment has ruined the quest in Assassin's Creed Odyssey where the player character rigs an ostracism in Athens.

    • @huntclanhunt9697
      @huntclanhunt9697 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ... We should bring this back this is genius.

    • @xxencodedzysecured4753
      @xxencodedzysecured4753 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Then couldn’t you just get a whole another pot and break it? Maybe all the fake ballots from the extra pot would fit back together

    • @VSP4591
      @VSP4591 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You need a VERY Large pottery vessel to get 600 Ostraca on which a name would be written. Probably they had many vessels of pottery.

  • @mrid5850
    @mrid5850 7 ปีที่แล้ว +625

    This channel does a great job in making history accessible. I already love history, but often don't have the time to scroll through many many documents and then make a coherent story. You are absolutely great at this, it is often quite difficult to make history seem coherent and simple because it often isn't. Good job! Keep up the good work!

    • @kenichi-bk6bz
      @kenichi-bk6bz 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      mr id k

    • @TheGerogero
      @TheGerogero 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Telling a story around history is a double-edged sword. Memorable, accessible, sure. Vulnerable to your own biases? Also that.

    • @nobodybroda3826
      @nobodybroda3826 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@TheGerogero true but history is biased by the tellers of the time and nowadays. You will read a textbook and it shall be biased, even slightly

  • @gnazlis
    @gnazlis 5 ปีที่แล้ว +251

    @6:15 If a Citizen didn't participate on the assembly he was called an IDIOT which means "A Private Person"
    and was considered an idiot by his fellow citizens for allowing them to decide for him.
    The word IDIOT is still in use in modern Greek (ΙΔΙΟΤΗΣ) and has the same meaning without the negative connotation
    i.e. ΙΔΙΟΤΙΚΗ περιουσία = PRIVATE property

    • @JamesSarantidis
      @JamesSarantidis 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Is it true etymologically? If it is, I'm gonna use it in political debates. You are an Idiot, YOU are an Idiot. Everyone is an Idiot these days xD

    • @DubyaDeeEight
      @DubyaDeeEight 3 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      That makes the following quote by a contemporary Greek much more understandable - “those too smart to engage in politics are punished by being ruled by those dumber than them”

    • @evannesbitt7852
      @evannesbitt7852 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Well private property *is* idiotic in both senses of the word

    • @daca8395
      @daca8395 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@evannesbitt7852 socialism with Athenian characteristics!

    • @evannesbitt7852
      @evannesbitt7852 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@daca8395 if only

  • @Michael-kd1ho
    @Michael-kd1ho 5 ปีที่แล้ว +102

    A noteworthy person to have been ostracized was Themistocles, the victorious admiral in the battle of Salamis against the Persians - by quite a large concensus, the man responsible for saving Athens and Greece itself from becoming a satrapy of the Achemenid Empire.
    He grew very popular in the aftermath of the war, but was wildly hostile to Sparta, which also contributed to the assembly's vote - not only was Temistocles becoming too powerful and influential, he might also drag the city to war with the Laconians.
    Themistocles never returned to Athens - ironically, he wound up serving the Persian king Artaxerxes - the son of the Xerxes who invaded Greece and who's fleet Themistocles destroyed - as governor and high ranking official. He died in exile in Asia, aged 63.

    • @MrAlexkyra
      @MrAlexkyra ปีที่แล้ว +5

      It reminds me of Churchill being voted out of office before WW2 had ended, except that Churchill wasn't exiled from the UK for 10 years.

  • @faithlessgr
    @faithlessgr 6 ปีที่แล้ว +436

    Solon's legislative reforms that laid the foundations for Athenean Democracy were not just an answer to the infighting of the oligarchs. You make it sound as if a member of the oligarchs willingly gave away power to the poor Athenean masses. Solon's reforms came about as a result of the growing unrest and rioting of the Athenean population against the Oligarchs. In other Greek city-states this conflict resulted in the establishment of tyrannies as a means for the aristocrates to maintain their rule. In Athens it was resolved with Solon's reforms which would compromise some of thar power and would introduce certain rights and political involvement to the masses.

    • @PierroCh5
      @PierroCh5 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Sounds familiar...

    • @mYnAME-ww9iv
      @mYnAME-ww9iv 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@PierroCh5 if you're implying our age of western democracies then you're wrong because they're based off of Roman style of democracy. Under Athenian democracy, poor, even if held little influence because of the rigged system, still voted for or against a lot of the issues DIRECTLY, not through representative. People didn't organize the governing bodies but voted directly and elections were held at random.
      Roman democracy on the other hand was heavily influenced by money and was made up of representatives who were supposed to represent their constituents but had their own interests.
      Still considering the technology back at the time, you couldn't have a full scale Athenian direct democracy on a scale of whole Roman Empire or even inside the walls of Rome itself because of how huge they were. And although today it's very much possible some rich oligarchs wouldn't be happy...

    • @BygoneUser1
      @BygoneUser1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@mYnAME-ww9iv Roman Democracy, or more succinctly the Roman Republic, was similar to Athenian democracy directly after the reforms of Solon. That is, while all Roman citizens did have some modicum of rights and power, the big decisions, and most of the power, were intended for the aristocracy & very wealthy, with the poor serving only as a 'tie-breaker' to prevent gridlock. Like this video suggests, basically a form of diffuse oligarchy, or perhaps an 'aristocratic republic'.
      If we were to continue the comparison, we might say that Julius Caesar was a Roman Peisistratos who was infinitely more charismatic, militarily skilled (pretty important), & politically populist. Still, I don't think the comparison is altogether helpful on a superficial level, and, for my part, I'm not suggesting Peisistratos was necessarily a dullard, or that their positions within their respective societies were altogether the same.

    • @mickey4125
      @mickey4125 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      'twas ever thus...

  • @THEJaManes
    @THEJaManes 7 ปีที่แล้ว +860

    18:45 Where is Sicily?

    • @jasondoe2596
      @jasondoe2596 7 ปีที่แล้ว +191

      Gone for a walk :P

    • @geographynerd1295
      @geographynerd1295 7 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Out of the frame. It’s too far out to see in this view.

    • @theswedishdude1
      @theswedishdude1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +359

      obviously the boot kicked it away

    • @moonknightish
      @moonknightish 7 ปีที่แล้ว +172

      And Sardinia. And Corsica.

    • @legionxiii8055
      @legionxiii8055 7 ปีที่แล้ว +443

      Sorry dude. Sicily's just been ostracised.

  • @maxanette
    @maxanette 7 ปีที่แล้ว +705

    Thanks for making another video, I missed the squares.

    • @forsrob94
      @forsrob94 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Nämen Hejsan tjänare, hur är livet?

    • @maxanette
      @maxanette 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ja det går som det går. Hur e det själv?

    • @forsrob94
      @forsrob94 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Nämen Hejsan meh, sku kunna va bättre

    • @hattiewhitson7736
      @hattiewhitson7736 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, I love the little guys ▪️▪️▪️▪️▪️
      ▫️▫️▫️▫️▫️

    • @feartheghus
      @feartheghus 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      that's racist, black and white squares? what about yellow, red, and brown squares?
      jk of course

  • @Bravco509
    @Bravco509 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You did an amazing job. I'm reading Plutarch and Aristotle right now. But you clarified/simplified everything so well. Your channel deserves support.

  • @all7ofthem716
    @all7ofthem716 7 ปีที่แล้ว +125

    This channel is my favourite thing to see in notifications. I legitimately get excited.

  • @Chrisxaxaxaxa
    @Chrisxaxaxaxa 7 ปีที่แล้ว +344

    As a greek it's weird to hear words like Βασιλεύς Στρατηγός and Βουλή with an English accent. Also we were taught this type of stuff (although not with so much detail) in school so this is a nice way of learning more. As always great video.

    • @alphamikeomega5728
      @alphamikeomega5728 7 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I'm curious, presumably your teachers do the modern Greek pronunciation rather than the ancient/classical pronunciation? Or does it vary by teacher?

    • @alphamikeomega5728
      @alphamikeomega5728 7 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      DrIScream I thought that classical pronunciation included pronouncing β as b (not v), pronouncing "h" in words like "hellas", pronouning γ as g and υ as ü, as well as distinction between the sounds for ο and ω, and ι and ε, whereas Modern Greek is not pronounced like this.

    • @akSeR2010
      @akSeR2010 7 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      AlphaMikeOmega You are right. The pronunciation has changed significantly over the centuries. But don't assume that in classical Greece there was a standard greek language for all Greeks, like there is today. There were many different accents, each one with their own distinct pronunciations of words. The current type of Greek language, called "demotike" is the continuation of classical attic Greek but shares the most simmilarities with "koine". The Greek type of language that was spoken in the Hellenistic eastern kingdoms. So the great grandfather is classical attic Greek, which would not be understood by current speakers, as it is fairly different in pronunciation. The grandfather is simplified Koine, which starts to resemble modern pronunciation. The father is medieval byzantine Greek. The child is demotike, which is spoken today.

    • @akSeR2010
      @akSeR2010 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Junius Argonon Well yes I'm Greek. And you are actually right. There are some distinct dialects such as Pontic, Cretan, Cypriot even today. But there is a difference. Most Cretans and certainly all Pontians can speak the standard Greek fairly well and they only speak their distinct accent (if they actually speak it at all) for cultural reasons between themselves. But that's not what I wanted to say in my previous comment. I actually wanted to talk about the false assumption that classical Greek of antiquity has the same pronunciation as today's standard Greek.

    • @akSeR2010
      @akSeR2010 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Junius Argonon Well it would amaze you how many Greeks unfortunately believe this. The truth is that 70% of our vocabulary comes directly from ancient greek. But that has lead to the misconception that because these are the same words, They must have been pronounced back then the same as they do today. So this is the reason behind my original comment. Take care.

  • @carlosrobertson6124
    @carlosrobertson6124 7 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    I teach history to high school students in Spain (I'm American) and have been using your videos with my history buff kids. keep it up dude!

  • @MichalisFamelis
    @MichalisFamelis 7 ปีที่แล้ว +260

    I'd love a similar one on the Old Swiss Confederacy.

  • @oWallis
    @oWallis 7 ปีที่แล้ว +348

    Those Ancient Athenians should feel proud. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

    • @ericforeman9401
      @ericforeman9401 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      oWallis too bad greece is an economic failure

    • @jdoc3118
      @jdoc3118 7 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      Too bad they would pity us.Democracy nowdays means Mob drama

    • @hjorturerlend
      @hjorturerlend 7 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      Uh, who has imitated them? There is hardly a single country with any democratic institutions. We use elections - elections are anti-democratic, it´s an inherently aristocratic system. Random selection is the basis of democracy, not elections. Read Aristotle.
      We copy the Roman system, and there is a really good (actually really bad...) reason for that :P
      "Parliamentary democracy" and "democratic republic" are oxymorons, a contradiction hidden in plain sight. Plutocratic oligarchy is the correct term for modern government.
      PS: Jury duty is propably the only democratic institution today, but it is compromised by having judges.

    • @merrittanimation7721
      @merrittanimation7721 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Kawaiiser-Genosse Wilhelm II von Hohenzollern Calling modern governments oligarchies is a bit of a stretch. Look at the Venetian Republic for something more on that line.

    • @CarlosHernandez-wy3gu
      @CarlosHernandez-wy3gu 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      *sincerest

  • @sgtleobella
    @sgtleobella 7 ปีที่แล้ว +191

    That beat at the beginning of the video was pretty dope

    • @kenichi-bk6bz
      @kenichi-bk6bz 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Paul Casey y

    • @Macieks300
      @Macieks300 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      th-cam.com/video/Z29-q66B1aA/w-d-xo.html

    • @loldiamond1017
      @loldiamond1017 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Macieks300 thanks!

  • @oWallis
    @oWallis 7 ปีที่แล้ว +136

    Perfect, I was just wondering what I was going to watch while eating dinner. Another masterpiece my dude

    • @EcuadorianFlagShip
      @EcuadorianFlagShip 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      oWallis check /r/mealtimevideos if you can. It was made for people like you and me.

  • @joecopley5462
    @joecopley5462 7 ปีที่แล้ว +85

    Ancient History student here and I just spent this term studying this exact topic. This video is a perfect summery of what I studied. This will be helpful later down the line when it comes to revise for the exam period. Thank you very much Historia Civilis; amazing and informative content as always!

  • @iamseamonkey6688
    @iamseamonkey6688 4 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    18:45 I see Sicily has been ostracized from Europe

  • @rafafr9
    @rafafr9 7 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    O Just love when the ending song plays after a small pause, It is so satisfying

  • @darkmater4tm
    @darkmater4tm 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    One of my favourite factoids about ancient Athens is that it was legal to kill a tyrant. If anyone held onto power after their term, a random citizen could kill him on some opportunity, and they wouldn't be accused of something.

  • @MarkedOne98
    @MarkedOne98 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    A few comments by a native Greek speaker on the pronunciations:
    1:23 "Areopagus = Arios Pagos" Pagos is an ancient Greek word for rock. It's basically a huge rocky hill situated near the Acropolis of Athens. Today the supreme court of Greece is called Arios Pagos.
    2:10 "Basileus = Vasilefs".
    2:35 "Polemarch = Polemarchos".
    6:37 "Boule = Vouli" You've probably heard of it if you follow Greek politics. The word is still used today for the Hellenic Parliament
    11:45 The 10 tribes were named after 10 mythological heroes, selected by the Oracle at Delphi. For anyone interested, they were: Erechtheis , Aigeis , Pandionis , Leontis , Akamantis , Oineis , Kekropis , Hippothontis , Aiantis (10 points if you know who the name refers to ) and lastly Antiochis.
    13:40 "Prytaneis = Pritanis" The word is still used today, mostly for the head of a university.
    17:05 Ostrakismos or Eksostrakismos (out + ostrascism). Historians have found roughly 10,500 pieces of pottery with names written on them. Plutarch wrote that on 482 B.C a man that didn't know how to write, asked a random person to write on his ostrakon the name Aristides (the Just). Unbeknownst to him that man was Aristides himself. Aristides asked him " What has Aristides done to you". "Nothing" the man replied, "but I'm tired of hearing everyone calling him Just". Upon hearing that, Aristides wrote his name on the Ostrakon and returned it to the man.

    • @jcavs9847
      @jcavs9847 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      You're using the modern pronunciation of greek though. In ancient greek it would probably be closer to his pronunciation, since "β" sounded like "b" and not "v", "η" sounded like the italian "è" among other things

    • @hackerulroman
      @hackerulroman 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That last story about Aristides is so deep omg

  • @dsnodgrass4843
    @dsnodgrass4843 7 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Great video! An underappreciated part of Solon's genius (and democracy's genius) was that a tremendous lot of new people not only got a measure of power; but with it a commensurate *stake* in the well-being and success of the nation-state. No monarchy or despotism can avail itself of so much freely given effort; born of the citizen's identifying the health of the state with his/her own so closely. This shouldn't be forgotten.

  • @psammiad
    @psammiad 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Excellent video. Even studying classics I struggled to get my head around Athenean democracy, this gives a really good picture of how it worked and evolved over time.

  • @UnintentionalSubmarine
    @UnintentionalSubmarine 7 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    Well, this was illuminating.
    I knew of the Athenian Democracy before, and understood some of the peculiarities, but this was more complex than I had expected, with more thought put into it than I had realised. I guess I was a bit coloured by the story of the ostracism of Aristides, which made the Athenian Democracy seem so chaotic and foolish.

    • @jeeshadow1
      @jeeshadow1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Athens gets that reputation I think in part because a lot of the people who wrote about Athenian government were opponents of it. The Philosophers like Socrates were never fans of Athenian democracy, and Thucydides had been exiled from the city and was not a fan of the more populist leaders. There are some legitimate examples of Athens making really bad decisions (looking at ordering an entire city killed for an insult or prosecuting all their admirals because they tried to save drowning sailors instead of perusing the enemy) but I think all democratic governments make idiotic decisions at times! Authoritarian governments also tend to have terrible rulers at times, just with democracy there are release valves were as you are stuck with terrible authoritarian leaders for years!

    • @AbbeyRoadkill1
      @AbbeyRoadkill1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@jeeshadow1 There's nothing that discredits a political system like losing a really big, important war. In the centuries following Athens' defeat in the Peloponnesian war almost every historian/author treated democracy with scorn and derision. It helps explain why it took so long for democracy to get political traction again.

    • @DarklordZagarna
      @DarklordZagarna 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@AbbeyRoadkill1 And part of the distortion was that the importance of that war was itself overrated, probably due to Thucydides and Xenophon, who each had a habit of exaggerating the importance of certain things in order to make a point.
      Truth: the oligarchic government of Athens installed after the war was gone in less than a year; the broad naval-based Athenian Empire was largely restored in a generation; the city once again surpassed Sparta in military importance after Leuctra, where the Thebans exposed the Spartan army as a paper tiger; and it was Macedon, not Sparta, that really brought down the democratic government as an independent force.

    • @lopez.jacinto.6726
      @lopez.jacinto.6726 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@DarklordZagarna 👏👏👏👏👏 Pretty well explained.

    • @Mnnvint
      @Mnnvint 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@jeeshadow1 If you're talking about the battle of Arginusae, it was the other way around. They prosecuted the generals because they had failed to save drowning sailors, and that was especially infuriating to the public because of the political undertones (the sailors would have been mostly from the lower economic class).

  • @papatingle9964
    @papatingle9964 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Good video, I do want to note however that it's very common yet anachronistic to call Athens under Solon's reforms a "democracy". He laid a good foundation for Cleisthenes to build a democracy upon by removing debt-slavery and allowing all citizens to participate in the Ekklesia (along with some other less important reforms), but Athens under Solon wasn't democratic, it was timocratic and Solon didn't intend to do his reforms so that later someone could "finish" them and bring forth democracy or something, the idea of complete equality wasn't something he seeked.

  • @Strideo1
    @Strideo1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +350

    It was pretty cool of John Carpenter to do the soundtrack for this episode.

    • @astroboirap
      @astroboirap 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      the music is shit

    • @independentomega2701
      @independentomega2701 7 ปีที่แล้ว +197

      I'm etching your name +astroboirap onto a piece of pottery. You're gonna get ostracized! Need 5999 more likes! LET'S GOOOOO!

    • @RoboBoddicker
      @RoboBoddicker 7 ปีที่แล้ว +42

      the new music ruled. astroboirap has no place in athens

    • @steamonkey9927
      @steamonkey9927 7 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      astroboirap Says the dude getting more dislikes than likes on all of his 'songs'

    • @astroboirap
      @astroboirap 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      SteaMonkey Alexander the Great wasn't popular either

  • @colemanadamson5943
    @colemanadamson5943 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Historia Civilis - You do a fantastic job of explaining history. Your voice has a very pleasant quality and your delivery is excellent. Plus your captions are quite funny as well. Thank you for all your work.

  • @ravimattar
    @ravimattar 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    AMAZING video, as always. When the end song starts and the Historia Civilis logo comes at the end, I can't help but form a smile on my face in every video. Never change my dude, cheers.

  • @austinmonreal2331
    @austinmonreal2331 7 ปีที่แล้ว +386

    Last time I was this early the Romans had just thrown out their king!

    • @kalil2669
      @kalil2669 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      No more macedonians :(

  • @musculusiv4172
    @musculusiv4172 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Mate the synth bases you have as background music are insane

    • @coolhandphilip
      @coolhandphilip 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It totally rocks!

  • @granddukeofflario8018
    @granddukeofflario8018 5 ปีที่แล้ว +157

    Historia Civilis: Transforming Athens from a limited democracy to a full democracy.
    *Socrates has left the chat*

    • @alexmemster5816
      @alexmemster5816 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      American patriotism has joined the chat.

    • @palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046
      @palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Its weird that most philosophers were skeptical of democracy
      *Jasjdwero*

    • @TheBrickMasterB
      @TheBrickMasterB 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046 It's because most philosophers were either wealthy or disliked other people, and subsequently disliked the idea of "uneducated commoners" having any say on matters deemed too important for them.

    • @OkurkaBinLadin
      @OkurkaBinLadin 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@alexmemster5816 USA is a republic, not "full democracy", you simp.

    • @OkurkaBinLadin
      @OkurkaBinLadin 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@TheBrickMasterB They were proven right.

  • @adhddaila-lama117
    @adhddaila-lama117 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It always is a pretty long wait for the next video. (I understand because it's a lot of research) But when there finally is one I genuinely can't wait to see it. I just watched this one in the train, I never watch TH-cam in the train. So sir, you may take this as a compliment! Thank u very much for doing what you do!

  • @ChevyChase301
    @ChevyChase301 7 ปีที่แล้ว +285

    Are you ever gonna go back to the Caesar-Pompey War?

    • @fivesincarnate630
      @fivesincarnate630 7 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Joey Kevorkian “I will make a video deconstructing the words “Caesar crossed the Rubicon.” I believe that is how it was said.

    • @katherine7802
      @katherine7802 7 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      please daddy civilis

    • @LC-fe2pb
      @LC-fe2pb 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Joey Kevorkian most likely he will

    • @sarasamaletdin4574
      @sarasamaletdin4574 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Maybe he does Greek stuff until Alexander series is finished.

    • @MrHoeBow
      @MrHoeBow 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      FivesIncarnate The phrase he said he'd dissect was "Caesar marched on Rome," I believe.

  • @Aricade111
    @Aricade111 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your content should be on the front page! The videos are both informative and interesting. I cannot recommend them enough.

  • @ArttuH5N1
    @ArttuH5N1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Basileus was also the title of the Byzantine (Roman) Emperor at some point IIRC E: Hold up, strategoi also was a name ERE used

    • @aqui1ifer
      @aqui1ifer ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Heraclius reformed Roman administration to use Greek during the end of his tenure due to most of the Latin speaking parts of the empire being depopulated/conquered by Lombards, Slavs or Arabs.

  • @weaselontheclock6695
    @weaselontheclock6695 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Sicily is missing from that map at then end. Love the content, honestly my favorite channel

  • @LC-fe2pb
    @LC-fe2pb 7 ปีที่แล้ว +438

    I'm a simple man, I see a historia civilis video
    I click

    • @danukil7703
      @danukil7703 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I like

    • @zamzamazawarma928
      @zamzamazawarma928 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Mmmm where did I read this before?

    • @pjrt_tv
      @pjrt_tv 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I like before the video load.

    • @rachilray
      @rachilray 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hey reddit! XD super funny comment! Le upboat!

  • @StoicFC
    @StoicFC 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is my favorite TH-cam channel of all time. I stop anything I'm doing to watch new uploads

  • @uguralpbitikcioglu2336
    @uguralpbitikcioglu2336 7 ปีที่แล้ว +102

    what happened to sicily????

    • @martijndebaets6815
      @martijndebaets6815 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Alp Ugur It got deleted by the Gods xD

    • @LMAccount1
      @LMAccount1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      and sardegna and corse XD

    • @13Luk6iul
      @13Luk6iul 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The spartans took it from Athens! :)

    • @talknight2
      @talknight2 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      FarawayWayfarer it's Sardinia in English

    • @YAH2121
      @YAH2121 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      It was ostracized

  • @DeFaulty101
    @DeFaulty101 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I find it fascinating how much democracy has evolved since then, and encouraging to think it is perhaps capable of such evolution still.

  • @jackjohn1255
    @jackjohn1255 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    YOU'RE BACK!
    I missed you...

  • @gamergril5940
    @gamergril5940 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    All the members of the Prytaneis living in a house together sounds like the setup for a historical sit-com

  • @MrSashoks
    @MrSashoks 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Man your stuff is amazing your presentation of the material is always on point my attention is 100% on the video, I'd find it really interesting to learn how you make your research and put the whole thing together.

  • @Alobster1
    @Alobster1 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    One of the few channels I stop everything I am doing to watch. Always quality content.

  • @haraldbonner7649
    @haraldbonner7649 7 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    When are you going to make a video on Caesars march on Rome?

    • @franzluggin398
      @franzluggin398 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      *rolls dice*

    • @YAH2121
      @YAH2121 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      At his rate, Summer 2019 sounds about right.

    • @damiensimmons2504
      @damiensimmons2504 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      YAH21 it’s summer 2019

  • @philobrain
    @philobrain 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    You make some of the legitimately best content on youtube.

  • @charleslambert3368
    @charleslambert3368 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    It'd be interesting to go into more depth on the way that Hellenic culture spread, especially via the Etruscans to Rome.

  • @jameskirk1161
    @jameskirk1161 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is easily my favorite TH-cam channel

  • @DoctuhD
    @DoctuhD 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    18:50
    Where is Sicily?!?!? It's gone :o

  • @michaelmcghee6594
    @michaelmcghee6594 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank You for Uploading this!!! I love the analyses of the different Greek States and just after my pretty awful finals week, it cheered me up thank you!!

  • @BougieKoala
    @BougieKoala 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    HANDS UP FOR THE MOST HECTIC OUTRO MUSIC EVER!!

  • @enzocypriani5055
    @enzocypriani5055 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the channel i yearned to find for a long time

  • @ISawABear
    @ISawABear 7 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    So... Thessaly next?

  • @DonRaynor
    @DonRaynor 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Car broke down, it's super cold (-15°C) and I'm middle of nowhere. At least there is Civilis video so I have that going for me

  • @hognigk96
    @hognigk96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    My man got some sick new intro-beats

  • @VRichardsn
    @VRichardsn 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    That lightning puts Industrial Light and Magic to shame. Top notch work Historica Civlis, as customary.

  • @VladTevez
    @VladTevez 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    In modern Greek "Boule" was the word chosen to translate "Parliament"

    • @stevied3400
      @stevied3400 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      V. Athanasiou
      I took Ancient Greek in college and I learned βουλή as meaning “counsel”, “will”, “determination”, or “Senate”.
      All of those translations make sense given the nature/job of the ancient boule and modern Parliament.

  • @jordanrenkert4176
    @jordanrenkert4176 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am so stoked! Thank you for submitting another fantastic video before the new year!

  • @Scarvetcowboy
    @Scarvetcowboy 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love these constitution videos, wondering if you might also do less well known states, like the Florintian constitution, or to take a more modern example, the constitution of the Weimar republic?

  • @nahman6790
    @nahman6790 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been waiting for this video, I Just binged *all* your videos. I went back to the home page, and i couldn't believe my own luck, another Historia Civilis video.
    10/10 Best channel on YT.

  • @M_Chen333
    @M_Chen333 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    11:21 That spinning square looks hilarious.

    • @iamseamonkey6688
      @iamseamonkey6688 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's a Sentence that, while it makes perfect sense In this context, I never expected to hear. Take my like

  • @intoxicary
    @intoxicary 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    My favorite History channel on youtube. You kick ass bro.

  • @Paulo-py4mm
    @Paulo-py4mm 7 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Please do a video on caesars pall labienus

    • @schneiderwebb2303
      @schneiderwebb2303 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Paul Aldrich I could go for that

    • @MikeGuarino69
      @MikeGuarino69 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I believe Paul Benis was responsible for Kill Butt 2: 2

  • @DSR115
    @DSR115 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    So glad to see enough video from Historia Civilis.

  • @GerackSerack
    @GerackSerack 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Give poor Draco some love too! Without his previous reforms, Solon couldn't have done much.

    • @jasondoe2596
      @jasondoe2596 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And Cleisthenes, nicknamed "the father of democracy", who was behind most of the later reforms presented in the video. He should have been mentioned by name :(

    • @kristoforperkola6923
      @kristoforperkola6923 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      He was a bit too Draconian for my tastes.

    • @brotherbarnaby4464
      @brotherbarnaby4464 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      *Buh dum tish.

    • @yarpen26
      @yarpen26 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jasondoe2596 Back in school, textbooks would always talk of "the reforms by Solon _and_ Cleisthenes".

    • @jasondoe2596
      @jasondoe2596 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      yarpen26, yeap!

  • @deadpanman1649
    @deadpanman1649 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ohhhhhhh it’s so good to have you back!

  • @80ki68
    @80ki68 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    "Congratulations, my dude/fellow politician! They just elected you mayor!"
    "Uh... greeeaaaat..."
    "... of ancient Athens!"
    "Wait what?! WOOOOOOO!!!"

  • @jigzo78
    @jigzo78 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's great to be able to look at history and see that the problems we face now aren't unique to our time and that they've been overcome before.
    I don't think we appreciate all that those in the past have gone through and learned. Nor do we try to implement their lessons in our own lives. We've been trying to figure out how best to live together in productive societies for what 12,000+ years now? There's a lot more to be taken from the past than some names and dates of battles.
    Historians of the future trying to figure out what our time was all about are going to have a lot of ads and blogs and general noise to wade through. I suppose all we really know of certain times is stock levels, trade agreements and certain privileged people's view on the state of things.
    Love these videos. Really make you think.

  • @AragornRespecter
    @AragornRespecter 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    2:56 POWER OVERWHELMING

  • @ElliotM2007
    @ElliotM2007 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The music appears to be directional in my headphones and it threw me off. His outro in here is satisfying to reach as always. Good choices of music

  • @bramvanoers7923
    @bramvanoers7923 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    18:33 where is Sicily​?

  • @bucsa4
    @bucsa4 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Keep up the good work.
    I have been missing new videos from you. Don’t stop

  • @ivlivscaesar5898
    @ivlivscaesar5898 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    18:59 where is Sicily? Did Thanos snap it out of existance?

  • @Wallyworld30
    @Wallyworld30 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    So glad you uploaded again. This is my favorite channel. Please keep up your great work!

  • @Archangelm127
    @Archangelm127 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I think it worth mentioning the eventual downsides of the Athenian system, which can be slightly oversimplified into "mob rule." The citizens liked naval campaigns, because both shipbuilding and naval service brought money, so they kept pushing Athens into war whether it was prudent or not. This eventually led the Aegean area to regard Athens as a bully. There's much more to it than that, but that's the very short version. My point is that there's both an upside and a downside to almost anything. :)

    • @robertjarman3703
      @robertjarman3703 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That's possible, but there are some important safeguards we could adopt in a modern version.
      Today, we have something called Westphalian Sovereignty, meaning that the internal matters of another state are for it alone to decide provided that they respect their citizens' basic rights. A war may only be declared by another nation's aggression. Combined with rules related to conflicts of interest, transparency, and ownership over the means of building weapons and military equipment, and strict civilian control over any armed forces, defensive or not, no matter if they are without a ruling class or not, as well as complex trade networks that depend on international and collective cooperation, that works quite well.
      As for mobs, you can prevent that with having multiple centres of power beyond just the one assembly. Require broader consensus than just 50%+1. Create a charter of rights that cannot be repealed or amended to remove clauses, and make that charter very broad. Sortition as a means of political power includes the minority in a way that democracy today doesn't. And so on.

  • @PennyCilllin
    @PennyCilllin 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love learning the configs of ancient civil governance and power. Battle knowledge is of course important but ancient society's legal, political and economic machines also give relevant lessons on how we got where we are today.

  • @ColtKiller818
    @ColtKiller818 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The problem with democracy is that people get a say.

    • @buongiorno4434
      @buongiorno4434 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Democracy can easily turn to Idiocracy, sadly.

  • @ZachAgape
    @ZachAgape 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    that vid & the constitution of Spartans vid were both really well made, well done!

  • @markspringsvlogs8790
    @markspringsvlogs8790 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    "Deme names are where it's at!"
    -Some old Athenian

  • @yhwhsozo3680
    @yhwhsozo3680 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’ve watched your whole playlist at least 2 dozen times…. I go to sleep to this and Timeous massive history of Rome playlist. TY so much. My son (9) loves em too YAY!!!

  • @Imperator-Carolus
    @Imperator-Carolus 7 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Thank God, I've scoured youtube and this is the first video to go over the Athenian system in detail.

  • @josetorres3355
    @josetorres3355 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    OMG I get so full of dopamine when you upload a video. Thank you!

  • @gameer0037
    @gameer0037 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It‘s so sad, that we don‘t have a single „full democraty“ today. Here in Switzerland we get near to arhens but system isn‘t perfect (yet). And America, France, Germany and so on have have no direct democracy. = no democracy

    • @codekillerz5392
      @codekillerz5392 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Direct democracy leads to mob rule

    • @gameer0037
      @gameer0037 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      CodeKillerz
      Yes, and that is sad too

  • @Joyfuljourney2023
    @Joyfuljourney2023 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    U are a absolute master at explaining politics and military

  • @bruh-vr5um
    @bruh-vr5um 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Can u please do a video on when the Romans invaded Briton in 52 AD (I think that's the year) cheers

  • @mypony891
    @mypony891 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent as usual. Very informative and easy to understand. Love the way you break it down. Keep it up.

  • @mandez3498
    @mandez3498 7 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    man today’s been amazing. shoes I ordered finally came, new update for Payday 2 and a vid from Historia Civilis

    • @Watheverable
      @Watheverable 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Mandez Siow same here,but what arrived was my Hail Caesar miniatures not shoes 😄

  • @NinjaAgnostic
    @NinjaAgnostic 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    No memes, no BS, just really good educational videos. Damn good.

  • @SquidBox1
    @SquidBox1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    freaking love this boy

  • @morimemento8351
    @morimemento8351 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    awesome to see that a new video was uploaded. dude your a genius.Cheers

  • @ThomasSorensen1
    @ThomasSorensen1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Man this is great. To think about these people who lived tougher & more foreign lives than many of us can even imagine and how a small group of them decided to come together and stake everything on this idea of democracy, that people can decide for themselves in a civilized manner. It's a choice to live that way, with accompanying difficulties & rewards. Despite the difficulties these Greek people went to great lengths to defend & improve their democracy and look what a mark their efforts left.

  • @tobystewart4403
    @tobystewart4403 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very impressive work on this channel. Amongst the best on TH-cam.

  • @nathanaelsallhageriksson1719
    @nathanaelsallhageriksson1719 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    WHAT!? Your map in the end is without sicily!?!?
    Com on dude. :-)

  • @tier1solutions28
    @tier1solutions28 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    One of the best channels on TH-cam.

  • @francistayag
    @francistayag 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Thank you for uploading!