@@niubi42069 I’m a doctor my wife’s a lawyer so yeah I can afford it but I can’t go on trips with my friends from my high school without having to pay for them. And it gets rid of the pure feeling you have and makes the sport too exclusive
they not only destroy the resorts themselves but the towns around them. My family has been going to Crested Butte for decades and now whenever we go half the town is closed because nobody can afford to live there anymore
@@adriankozubal His whole business is advertising ski areas. If I understand correctly, he is a transplant who is leveraging our state to make money and causing the problem he is complaining about.
@@MichaelBerry-j7r Exactly - he's trying to make money off the ski industry, while complaining that he can't afford to ski anymore, because the ski industry is trying to make money.
Already has happened in Lake Tahoe. a ski resort is on Public Land is only serving the multimillionaires. Government employees were stupid or bought out and they letthe billionaires close access.
@@veganpotterthevegan80% of my skiing is under my own power without lifts but your stance is anticonsumer. Should skiing be only accessible to the ultrawealthy and people with ultramarathoner levels of fitness?
16:19 That's me, bumping and raking the ramp! The new Lighting Ridge lift is sweet, especially on a blue bird day. The view is amazing! I agree with your points, especially the residents' only lifts! They have been sooooo boring to work. Most weekdays, we will see like 20 people max (Mary's and Village, haven't worked Raintree yet). My guess is it is going to be very slow on February weekends. Powder does treat us very well. Ride breaks during rotations are numerous. The pay is great, and the added benefit of team breakfasts is wonderful. Keep up the fantastic videos! Sadly, I didn't recognize you, should've known from the skis. LOL
As a European, I always thought it might be fun to ski in the US, but the more videos I see. I am now not keen at all. Which is a shame. It seems to be cheaper, less corporate and more free in Europe.
I think the big issue is we don't have enough resorts to restrict the greed. Europe has something like 4000 ski resorts, the US has less than 500. If we doubled that number with small hills that cost less than $45 a day with an emphasis on teaching up to an advanced level, I think we could bring back competition, or at least reduce crowding.
Highly reccomend flying over for some of the Canadian resorts! We've got our share of corporate greed, like everywhere, but we've also got some world class terrain and a few spots aren't too far from the airport
Another one bites the dust, loved that place. There's a book, Downhill Slide by Hal Clifford about the corporate ski industry's destruction of skiing, communities and environment etc. Written in 2003 and he pegged it.
The irony is that ski industry was in a serious decline until the big corporations revived it. The Catch-22 of the ski industry is an industry that is failing produces the best experience for it's skiers.
They’re just trying to become Utah’s version of Yellowstone Club. Push out as many non-homeowners, then they can further expand the homeowners terrain.
They need to severely increase taxes for private equity firms and limit management’s compensation. Corporate America is getting ruined by self serving (mis)managers and shortsighted vulture investors
They won't, politicians are inlined with these equity firms and large corporations, they all eat from the same table. Make us fight amongst each other with an a illusion of choice while they have their cake and eat it too.
It sounds like the resort owners have decided that the real money is in real estate development not in running a ski resort. When you think of the prices of real estate in Aspen, Vail etc you can see why.
Are they leasing the property? How does this revenue stream just not run out and make the business fail in the long run? Unless their is some large yearly fee for people living there?
@pg_jem that's what they do in one area of Wyoming where Tom Brady and friends pay several hundred thousand dollars up front and then pay yearly on top. What's funny, is these people probably don't get anything more than a normal person gets when going on off peak days. They just spend stupid money to do that rather than do something nice with it
@@pg_jem Powder Mountain sits on privately owned land. If your a property there is both an initiation fee and yearly dues. Then of course, there is the purchase-cost of buying a property there to begin with…
I was in Vail from '72-'92. Before the "Parking Structure". The "Town" told us there would be a fee only until they recouped it's expenses. How much does it cost now? And parking at that circus? good luck. I have never been back.
Great video.. so fed up with $$ ruining shit for the regular population. Stop skiing at this hill and let the 'home owners' flip the bill to run it. See where that goes...
Europe has consumer protections and politics that prevent ski resorts from getting away with anything like what they do here. Meanwhile, Utah elects Trump. You get what you vote for.
@@tomr.5321 Reed Hastings and other technology bosses infiltrating the Democratic Party is almost as cancerous as Trump. They all want more money, more power, more control. He would make Utah private property if he could.
Rumor is that “homeowners” have a $250,000 initiation fee and $2,400 monthly dues. That’s $11.5M/ year, with only 400 homeowners. 3,000 old season passes only brought in about $2.7M. Somebody is gREEDy!
@@johndriscoll213 no, the fee is like a club or org, you need to buy the house first, then pay initiation and dues, the houses are probably several millions of dollars
@@johndriscoll213 a fee or initiation, it seems similar to a golf club organization. Pay a ton of money for some amenities, golf and that's it. Absolutely insane
well, it's a big-up front, but annually, it's $1M, which isn't nothing but isn't enough to yield completely to homeowners....but let's say they were able to develop 1000 new homes....? much of this will come down (as in homewood) to whether local, state, federal regulators will allow the development to make a completely private resort model work.
I'm surprised the homeowners don't tell the resort to #@$% off, and just buy themselves regular ski passes. They're being charged an awful lot of money for very marginal privileges.
Seems like maybe phase 1 of a 2 part scheme. First phase is to get wealthy investors to buy more homes and create demand for even more private land, thinking they're buying access to a resort that's semi-private and subsidized by public access skiers. Then, once running the resort as a public access operation is proven to be unsustainable (by their own doing), make it a private resort and jack up annual fees for all the suckers that bought houses there. When some folks can't afford that, they sell their property to even wealthier people who want to buy access to a fully private resort.
Yeah. I wouldn't want to buy property there even if i had 5 million to spare-i wouldn't be able to trust they wouldn't jack up the fees as part of some even crazier scheme
Wonder if the homeowners will sell a pass to thier private section, in an effeort to recoup some of their expenses, because they paid for the real estate.
Yep, at first they were only jacking up the price on new equipment, starting about 15 years ago, since covid they have been jacking up the price of tickets.
Yeah, skiing is a rich person sport (and I enjoy skiing). But still, the prices are absurd, why would anyone go here instead of just buying an epic pass. At the cost, it is better to buy one of those and have unlimited access to multiple resorts.
@@tloud600 where in the northeast? im a college student and me and 4 friends wanna go snowboarding in the mountains for spring break but going to colorado for it seems insanely expensive.
@@stevena8649 This isn't true for the vast majority of people who aren't skilled enough to ski the extreme terrain in the West that you can't find in the East? Better - yes; exponentially better - no.
Take a plane a come to Europe if are planning a week. I just checked. I.e. from NY you can have direct flight to Milan for less than 600 dollars, you rent a car and in February is super cheap, like 40 dollars for an entire week, and go to the Dolomites. The 6 days pass for the entire Dolomiti Superski ( 450 lifts ) is 450 dollars and room with breakfast and dinner for a couple is about 2000. So with a little more than 2000 dollars each you can have an entire skiing week covered. And in a place much much bigger and that you cannot physically cover all in just 6 days.
You can get bus or train transfers from all airports near ski areas for cheaper than renting and parking a car. If you go to an appartment in a French ski village with ski in ski out you pay 800 dollar for 7 days with ski pass and lodging and you get affordable groceries in the village supermarkets. And the whole place speaks good english (all major European resorts) so language will never be an issue.
@ yes you can in Italy too. I estimated for a high quality hotel with meals included and top destination. But if you are on a budget there are much cheaper options too. I.e. you can rent an apartment and cook by yourself. I estimated renting a car, because in February car rentals are cheaper than bus tickets. And in hotels in the alps usually parkings is included in your lodging. You can see yourself. A week of car rental is less than 40 dollars, for the entire week. I regularly fly to Italy and rent a car. Car rental is very expensive in summer and around Christmas holidays. The rest of the year is super cheap.
@ Nice information, my comment was inteded as added options but you are right that Italy is a nice option and the car does add some multi resort options that bus doesn't offer.
the new menu at everett 8800 at Big Sky MT (at the Andesite peak, accessible only by ski lift) is this: curated dining experiences; $155 for 4 courses, or $230 for 6 courses those are your options, that's it 🤣 all i wanted was a bowl of french onion soup but they don't sell to heathens like me anymore
That is so dumb, even if money is not an issue, its a ski mountain, flexibility in dining options is what people want if they actually want to ski, a hot bowl of soup on a cold day might be all they want or need, too much food is just going to slow you down and four to six courses means you're there to sit on your keister, not ski.
The corporatization of human civilization will be remembered as the thing that almost drove humanity to the brink of extinction by the few that survive this period of extreme ignorance and arrogance. Maybe this is what people like Reed Hastings want? 🤷♂
4:29 its just a money grab, my whole life ive skied powder and not once has parking been a problem. Also, the pass holders still need to pay to park in February even though they are the only ones allowed to ski. Its saddens and infuriates me whats happened to my mountain. And how everyone is so quick to be fine with it.
I learned to ride at this resort 20 years ago in the early '00s. Loved the vibe, was so chill, inclusive, and down to earth. Haven't been back in almost 10 years. Sad to see that it's becoming Deer Valley 2.0
When private equity buys something they suddenly have to "pay the bills". The bills being the loans they took out to make the purchase in the first place. This has been a long stanting tactic of what we used to call "corporate raiders", or "vulture capital". The entire point is to hollow out the property that was bought, strip mining it for all profits until the customer base can't handle it any more, then put what remains up for sale.
This will never ever ever happen. They seem more interested in keeping people out of the forest. But, if it did happen, I’d be interested in a lease that held access rules so clown activity like Powder can’t happen.
I learned how to ski at powmow. We used to get all day/night passes (9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. tickets at the local gas station for $20. Skiing has become a rich man’s sport.
I used to get a free season pass every year living in the nearby university's dorm. Went every weekend and had barely any problems. Sucks to see what it's turning into.
I'm not gonna lie, if I'm rich enough and am considering a second home to in the mountains, and if I buy at Powder? there's a whole fricken large awesome resort that the will be largely empty for me and a few other homeowners? Just tell me where to sign.
@@theamericanbrothafrom the sound of things youd better be at the "don't tell me the price unless its over ten million" level wealth, because that seems to be their target price range.
Skied my whole life, starting when I was 8 yrs old. Seeing how the greed of man, “Vail Resorts”, has destroyed this once family friendly activity is discussing. F ALLYOU resorts that felt the need for greed to sell out to these corporate maggots. I’m out!
Having gone to snowbasin a few times i had heard of people saying good things about powder moutain, but seems unlikely i will ever go there now. Doesnt seem worth the additional costs for a day ticket when i can just go to the other resorts.
Hell yes to Snowbasin. It used to seem bougie (and the bathrooms definitely are), but it's at least in line with their pricing. Screw Greed Hastings, RIP PowMow
There's a reason they sold it. Because it's impossible to run a hill like that in today's economy without charging $400 lift tickets. Sadly the only people willing to deal with this issue are people who see dollar signs.
Yep. It’s never been a money-maker. Add to that fact the upside-down lay-out (there’s nowhere to build a typical ski-resort village) and that it’s privately owned land and the danger of an exclusive millionaires-only becomes obvious.
Mountains should be public and state and cities should be able to use eminent domain and force them to license it under specific requirements. There's no reas9n other than greed that they could afford to run the business before and not now. They don't NEED more overhead that is forced on people to try to badly justify a larger income to maintain a similar company margin and funnel more to the executives. We need more class action lawsuits as well for anything no explicitly stated at times of prior purchases
In europe most ski resorts are owned and operated by the local governments as a mountain resource. They pay for the lifts and infrastruture and get ski pass and tax revenue from the lodging and ammenties in return. Creates very fair economic system for guests and ski area operators.
I agree, but of course i also think telecom internet utilities health transportation and insurance should be state or nationalized, so i get little support in greed driven America:)
Back in 2009, I could drive from Taylorsville alll the way to Powder Mountain at 11am and still ride powder all day. I miss the old Powder Mountain so much!
in canada i pay $10 CAD for 3 hour night skiing at the local hill. an entire season of skiing periodically at night would be less than 1 day of skiing in the US... Good luck down there, you won't see me visiting for the hills anytime soon lmao
I'm a 25 year old freestyle skier and when I was young I always wondered why do these u.s based freestyle skiers only film on the streets, handrails etc. Now I know why, skiing is waaay too expensive for a young person with a 15$/hour wage.. Sad to see our sport die away, I've been skiing since 3 yrs old and soon I'm forced to quit. I live in Finland and our lift tickets have already doubled in price during the last 10 yrs.
I lnow Powder Mountain well as I was there implimenting a children's ski progtam in the mid 1980s. What is unfolding there now is very sad. The song Big Yelliw Taxi says it all.
How is there not a legal option for season pass holders who purchased before these changes? Very obviously the product they received is not what was implicitly advertised at the time of purchase.
oh there probably is in theory.. except the team of lawyers will cost 10 times more than any successful remedy.. Im thinking netflix has a stable of 4-500 lawyers.
i learned to snowboard on powder mountain when i was 15. used to pay 60$ at the window for a full day of boarding, no parking fee, nothing else. So depressing to see my favorite mountain around me taken by the greedy and gatekept.
25 here in kosovo in one of the ski “resorts” its owned by many companies and for 25$ you get access to 2 of the lifts and the single ski lift and there is an other ski resort its owned all by one guy for 13$ you get access to the lift that sends you to the main place where there is the bunny slope the restaurant and the ski lift and the other lift that sends you higher in to more advanced terrain which is still very safe as its kept in great shape and regularly groomed P.S during week days its cheaper with the 25$ one droping to 20 i think
This was proposed for homewood tahoe the only west mt I’ve skied that reminded me of the east with. Basic lodge,no up sell on parking ,concessions,real estate,etc just good family skiing. Thankfully it was nixed
I used to take my family of 5 skiiing 2 to 3 times each season. We can only afford to do it once this season and we own our equipment. Weekends are just so overpriced and crowded.
I have always wanted to try Powder Mtn but I lost interest in the last couple years. This video confirms this decision. The Netflix CEO, Vail Resorts and the people who owns the Ikon pass are doing what they can to destroy the U.S. ski industry in the name of greed.
My Keystone Plus pass was $390 when I bought in May of last year. Gives me unlimited access to Keystone, and several days at other Epic resorts. Only a small handful of blackout dates (7 days). These prices are eye-watering I had no idea Utah was so out of control when CO is still reasonable by comparison. $1,700 is legitimately insane.
Great summary - yes the changes have been baffling, I have been making PowMo my destination from PA every winter for the last 12 years or so, some years making two or thee trips, but never more than 7 days there in a season. That being said, I am always looking to be there on weekends, and the February rule had me move up the dates of our trip into January, just last weekend. The February weekend rule is very baffling - they could have just reduced the number of non-season day tickets for the weekends, or closed the sales 7 days out. I agree with your concern that they may not end up with enough traffic on those weekends to be sustainable. The other operations, food, rentals lessons - all need relativly full mountain to make sense. Then the SHOCK of paying $260 for a day pass on the 18th and 19th ( inc. taxes) - ouch. I was practically crying, thinking that my #1 goto is just no longer worth it. If it had not been for a 5' snowfall - the night before to take the sting out, we would have only gone one day, I was already planning to do Snowbasin on Sunday, if PowMo was as thin as I expected. Yes - the New Lightning Ridge and upgraded Paradise were good. Actually on Lightning it opened up a large area that was not used much with the cat service because directly under what is now the lift make the run too short, and when you were paying per cat ride, it did not make sense. I kind-of understand the desire to have private areas - to encourage the selling of more homesites, but Village and Mary's - really did not have much traffic before. So this seems to be more about marketing land, than anything to to with crowds. There are a couple areas that were not "in" these bowls, but accessible from those lifts, which now will require a hike. ( We did not do the hike this trip - but there are spots where you can still find powder a week after snowfall ) It is a balance equation of how people spend and what they expect, now as a high dollar resort, you are ONLY getting the uncrowded ( and less tracked out) experience. That is all you are paying for. They just do not offer any other "premium" for the money they are charging. Big difference between rough around the edges, brick and cold bathrooms, no lodge space but the plus of no lines / crowds for $140 vs $260 I get it, I believe the resort was over $100M in debt when Hastings bought it, and he has opened the checkbook to make significant investment in the lifts. AND - he is trying to find a way to at least make it not lose money. ( offering an open book, or selling 40% or so off as investment for the diehards - so we have real visibility in the financials would help) Something I am glad you touched on - yes, there staff is the best.... the lefties are great, always chatting and cheering on the guests. The overall vibe remains, and I really have not ever had a negative interaction with anyone here - staff or guests - a rarity these days.
You hit the nail on the head about the latest changes eliminating Powder Mountain as a good travel destination. I made Powder a vacation stop on my Indy Pass on swings through Utah the last few years in a row and loved it! It was such a good deal to ski there on Indy that I honestly felt like I was getting away with something. It's clear the new owner felt the same way about that. I'm unlikely to schedule another vacation stop at Powder anytime soon. If single day or weekend tickets (when available) are going to be as costly for visitors as at every other large resort, I'll keep checking other destinations off my bucket list for the same price.
Man every time I see one of these videos I shudder at the thought that someone will come up with these "ideas" here in Europe too. I think that it's almost impossible, since the mountains themselves are not "owned" by operators here and the public protection laws are very good, but still...
A PATROL TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT? that's next level. most resorts if you don't have a lift ticket you can still ski through, you just cannot ride the lift without a pass. it's not like alta is gonna stop you from snowboarding through from snowbird, they just won't let you ride the chair back up. arresting people for entering an entire area is insane.
I suspect the end game is to not get enough visitors, whine about it, and turn it into a fully private resort.
Bingo
just like Homewood
Yeah...
On public land...
@@robbank8027 it’s actually on private land, unlike most ski resorts.
homeowner ski patrol is like mall cops
Or worse; an HOA cop
CORB - cops on recumbent bikes 😂
Arre they going to chase skiers on snowmobiles with flashing blue lights xd?
Worse
Hmmm. many mall cops have their own prison cell they can put you into. 😂😂😂
Skiing has become too much of a cash grab, ruining the true feel of the sport.
go back country and you will get that feeling again
Just have to tour
@@charmoutdoors8613 honestly so real and watch this season be shit for them
Are you mad because you can't afford it?
@@niubi42069 I’m a doctor my wife’s a lawyer so yeah I can afford it but I can’t go on trips with my friends from my high school without having to pay for them. And it gets rid of the pure feeling you have and makes the sport too exclusive
Another tech oligarch destroying something beautiful.
they not only destroy the resorts themselves but the towns around them. My family has been going to Crested Butte for decades and now whenever we go half the town is closed because nobody can afford to live there anymore
Having money doesn’t make you smart, it just makes you think you’re smart. Musk? Zuckerberg? Etc.
See Taos
Free Luigi. Give him a new assignment
@@rsboy4109 the prices got to where they are because people have been paying them....
This is the first time you’ve sounded actually angry in a video.
cause the place he lives skiing wise is getting commercialized rather than being about skiing now skiings ruined
@@adriankozubal His whole business is advertising ski areas. If I understand correctly, he is a transplant who is leveraging our state to make money and causing the problem he is complaining about.
@@MichaelBerry-j7r Exactly - he's trying to make money off the ski industry, while complaining that he can't afford to ski anymore, because the ski industry is trying to make money.
The real danger of this is that other resorts could follow suit.
Already has happened in Lake Tahoe. a ski resort is on Public Land is only serving the multimillionaires. Government employees were stupid or bought out and they letthe billionaires close access.
@@alexwyler4570 there's a lot of public land you can ski on for free out there. You just can't ride the lifts and that's ok.
@@veganpotterthevegan this ain't it bud
@@Anonymous-gu7wz it's their lifts. Don't use them. It's pretty simple
@@veganpotterthevegan80% of my skiing is under my own power without lifts but your stance is anticonsumer.
Should skiing be only accessible to the ultrawealthy and people with ultramarathoner levels of fitness?
If you’re an American looking for the most budget friendly ski vacation, choose Switzerland over Utah. 🤦🏼♀️
making parts of a resort private is utter insanity. I hope people boycott this place hard.
Then they just turn it all private. Also most the changes happened after passes for the 24/25 season were sold
@@wcamericanmade9828 Sounds to me like false advertising to an extent
The corporation worshippers will only defend the move. Hoping communism comes to America quicker now. NWO.
@bobthepancake2870 exactly what it is. Honestly they should be sued over it since they didn't offer refunds after the announcements
@@Massflavour all they need is the home buyers. The rest is icing on the cake for them.
16:19 That's me, bumping and raking the ramp! The new Lighting Ridge lift is sweet, especially on a blue bird day. The view is amazing!
I agree with your points, especially the residents' only lifts! They have been sooooo boring to work. Most weekdays, we will see like 20 people max (Mary's and Village, haven't worked Raintree yet).
My guess is it is going to be very slow on February weekends.
Powder does treat us very well. Ride breaks during rotations are numerous. The pay is great, and the added benefit of team breakfasts is wonderful.
Keep up the fantastic videos! Sadly, I didn't recognize you, should've known from the skis. LOL
As a European, I always thought it might be fun to ski in the US, but the more videos I see. I am now not keen at all. Which is a shame. It seems to be cheaper, less corporate and more free in Europe.
I think the big issue is we don't have enough resorts to restrict the greed. Europe has something like 4000 ski resorts, the US has less than 500. If we doubled that number with small hills that cost less than $45 a day with an emphasis on teaching up to an advanced level, I think we could bring back competition, or at least reduce crowding.
Once in a lifetime would be ok. If you don't have a MEGA-PASS it's $$$. some smaller independent resorts are nice but hard to get to.
there are still some amazing non mega corp spots. Grand Targee is one that comes to mind.
@ that maybe so. And I’m not doubting you. But if I am flying from Heathrow to Salt Lake City, I can’t be driving another 4-5 hrs.
Highly reccomend flying over for some of the Canadian resorts! We've got our share of corporate greed, like everywhere, but we've also got some world class terrain and a few spots aren't too far from the airport
Another one bites the dust, loved that place. There's a book, Downhill Slide by Hal Clifford about the corporate ski industry's destruction of skiing, communities and environment etc. Written in 2003 and he pegged it.
The irony is that ski industry was in a serious decline until the big corporations revived it. The Catch-22 of the ski industry is an industry that is failing produces the best experience for it's skiers.
They’re just trying to become Utah’s version of Yellowstone Club.
Push out as many non-homeowners, then they can further expand the homeowners terrain.
4 legs good. Two legs bad. Welcome to Animal Farm. The future of the US.
Some animals are more equal than other animals.
The residential policies are shitty but I don't think this quite measures up to being a metaphor for Stalinism, lol
The anti gentile Marxist NWO is here
@ We're more than halfway down the road on the left and on the right. And they both have self righteousness, a cardinal sin.
They need to severely increase taxes for private equity firms and limit management’s compensation. Corporate America is getting ruined by self serving (mis)managers and shortsighted vulture investors
💯
Our antitrust laws are long overdue for an update, and the SEC needs much more funding so these laws can actually be enforced
They won't, politicians are inlined with these equity firms and large corporations, they all eat from the same table. Make us fight amongst each other with an a illusion of choice while they have their cake and eat it too.
@@jackrigazio3182hear hear!
It sounds like the resort owners have decided that the real money is in real estate development not in running a ski resort.
When you think of the prices of real estate in Aspen, Vail etc you can see why.
Are they leasing the property? How does this revenue stream just not run out and make the business fail in the long run? Unless their is some large yearly fee for people living there?
@pg_jem that's what they do in one area of Wyoming where Tom Brady and friends pay several hundred thousand dollars up front and then pay yearly on top. What's funny, is these people probably don't get anything more than a normal person gets when going on off peak days. They just spend stupid money to do that rather than do something nice with it
@@pg_jem Powder Mountain sits on privately owned land. If your a property there is both an initiation fee and yearly dues. Then of course, there is the purchase-cost of buying a property there to begin with…
$250,000 yearly dues 😂
The actual act of skiing becomes secondary.
I'd never ski there. Period.
You wouldn't be missing much. As someone who grew up there, it's widely panned as one of the lamest resorts in Utah.
Good.
I spent a month there last February and loved it, but won't be going back because of the privatization. Thank goodness for Targhee
Powder Mountain in a race to the bottom against Vail Resorts.
I was in Vail from '72-'92. Before the "Parking Structure". The "Town" told us there would be a fee only until they recouped it's expenses. How much does it cost now? And parking at that circus? good luck. I have never been back.
@@rahkinrah196330 bucks to park at lionshead
Greed even makes his instructors pay for parking, when they show up to give obscenely priced lessons. Pathetic!!!
Of which they get only $20/hr out of $100+.
Imagine a resort that makes Disney World look affordable! 😂😂 1:02
Great video.. so fed up with $$ ruining shit for the regular population. Stop skiing at this hill and let the 'home owners' flip the bill to run it. See where that goes...
I didn't think it was possible to run a resort worse than Fail Resorts, but they're definitely trying.
Everything Netflix touches turns to shit.
I have never watched one of their movies.
How long until they decide the snow is too white?
Thanks for the info. I’ve just scratched PM off my ski list. They won’t get my money.
Which is a shame, powder is an awesome location and used to stand for something before the corporate dummy takeover. All hail beaver mountain 🦫
Smart. Its a damn shame, one year one of the best skiing experience you can have became the worst! Read my comment earlier.
I went skiing to Europe and it spoiled me. The experience is so much better for far less money.
Europe has consumer protections and politics that prevent ski resorts from getting away with anything like what they do here.
Meanwhile, Utah elects Trump. You get what you vote for.
@@johndriscoll213 It's not as if Reed Hastings is some right-wing oligarch.
@@johndriscoll213 the US is a disaster. But it's not like skiing in Utah was cheap under Obama😂
@@tomr.5321 Reed Hastings and other technology bosses infiltrating the Democratic Party is almost as cancerous as Trump. They all want more money, more power, more control. He would make Utah private property if he could.
Japan is the best overall ski experience on earth. Food + Onsens + Japow.
Blackout dates, closed terrain for parts of the guests, parking fees. As a european, skiing in the US does sound like a nightmare
It's only like that at mega resorts. There are hundreds off smaller ski areas that are nothing like this.
Rumor is that “homeowners” have a $250,000 initiation fee and $2,400 monthly dues. That’s $11.5M/ year, with only 400 homeowners. 3,000 old season passes only brought in about $2.7M. Somebody is gREEDy!
$250,000 mountainside property? Lol.
@@johndriscoll213 no, the fee is like a club or org, you need to buy the house first, then pay initiation and dues, the houses are probably several millions of dollars
@@johndriscoll213 a fee or initiation, it seems similar to a golf club organization. Pay a ton of money for some amenities, golf and that's it. Absolutely insane
well, it's a big-up front, but annually, it's $1M, which isn't nothing but isn't enough to yield completely to homeowners....but let's say they were able to develop 1000 new homes....? much of this will come down (as in homewood) to whether local, state, federal regulators will allow the development to make a completely private resort model work.
I'm surprised the homeowners don't tell the resort to #@$% off, and just buy themselves regular ski passes. They're being charged an awful lot of money for very marginal privileges.
Seems like maybe phase 1 of a 2 part scheme. First phase is to get wealthy investors to buy more homes and create demand for even more private land, thinking they're buying access to a resort that's semi-private and subsidized by public access skiers. Then, once running the resort as a public access operation is proven to be unsustainable (by their own doing), make it a private resort and jack up annual fees for all the suckers that bought houses there. When some folks can't afford that, they sell their property to even wealthier people who want to buy access to a fully private resort.
Hastings is trying to create a "tech bros" Aspen, they don't want any vacationers or crusty locals.......
Yeah. I wouldn't want to buy property there even if i had 5 million to spare-i wouldn't be able to trust they wouldn't jack up the fees as part of some even crazier scheme
Wonder if the homeowners will sell a pass to thier private section, in an effeort to recoup some of their expenses, because they paid for the real estate.
More great content from PR. Appreciate the time and effort that you put into these 👍👏
This kind of crap is why the perception exists that skiing is essentially a rich people only sport
Yep, at first they were only jacking up the price on new equipment, starting about 15 years ago, since covid they have been jacking up the price of tickets.
because it is now. completely. Buffy??, polo or skiing this weekend?
i cant lie ski resorts are just too expensive
come to the northeast
Yeah, skiing is a rich person sport (and I enjoy skiing). But still, the prices are absurd, why would anyone go here instead of just buying an epic pass. At the cost, it is better to buy one of those and have unlimited access to multiple resorts.
@@tloud600 where in the northeast? im a college student and me and 4 friends wanna go snowboarding in the mountains for spring break but going to colorado for it seems insanely expensive.
@@TyFromDeeperdon’t travel to the northeast. It’s less expensive, but west is exponentially better skiing
@@stevena8649 This isn't true for the vast majority of people who aren't skilled enough to ski the extreme terrain in the West that you can't find in the East? Better - yes; exponentially better - no.
Suddenly Park City management doesn’t seem so bad
Ehhh Vail Resorts is still greedy af
Take a plane a come to Europe if are planning a week. I just checked. I.e. from NY you can have direct flight to Milan for less than 600 dollars, you rent a car and in February is super cheap, like 40 dollars for an entire week, and go to the Dolomites. The 6 days pass for the entire Dolomiti Superski ( 450 lifts ) is 450 dollars and room with breakfast and dinner for a couple is about 2000. So with a little more than 2000 dollars each you can have an entire skiing week covered. And in a place much much bigger and that you cannot physically cover all in just 6 days.
You can get bus or train transfers from all airports near ski areas for cheaper than renting and parking a car. If you go to an appartment in a French ski village with ski in ski out you pay 800 dollar for 7 days with ski pass and lodging and you get affordable groceries in the village supermarkets. And the whole place speaks good english (all major European resorts) so language will never be an issue.
@ yes you can in Italy too. I estimated for a high quality hotel with meals included and top destination. But if you are on a budget there are much cheaper options too. I.e. you can rent an apartment and cook by yourself. I estimated renting a car, because in February car rentals are cheaper than bus tickets. And in hotels in the alps usually parkings is included in your lodging. You can see yourself. A week of car rental is less than 40 dollars, for the entire week. I regularly fly to Italy and rent a car. Car rental is very expensive in summer and around Christmas holidays. The rest of the year is super cheap.
@ Nice information, my comment was inteded as added options but you are right that Italy is a nice option and the car does add some multi resort options that bus doesn't offer.
the new menu at everett 8800 at Big Sky MT (at the Andesite peak, accessible only by ski lift) is this: curated dining experiences; $155 for 4 courses, or $230 for 6 courses
those are your options, that's it 🤣
all i wanted was a bowl of french onion soup but they don't sell to heathens like me anymore
That is so dumb, even if money is not an issue, its a ski mountain, flexibility in dining options is what people want if they actually want to ski, a hot bowl of soup on a cold day might be all they want or need, too much food is just going to slow you down and four to six courses means you're there to sit on your keister, not ski.
Pocket 🥪
Sounds like more oligarchy moves.
"Why are you doing this?" - "we need to pay reed hastings salary"
I thought this was going to be about Homewood... Dang Powder mountain really outdid everyone
The corporatization of human civilization will be remembered as the thing that almost drove humanity to the brink of extinction by the few that survive this period of extreme ignorance and arrogance.
Maybe this is what people like Reed Hastings want? 🤷♂
read chris cutrone
Yes because when we can’t shred anymore we will all die
You think its only "the brink"?? and that anyone is going to survive??
4:29 its just a money grab, my whole life ive skied powder and not once has parking been a problem. Also, the pass holders still need to pay to park in February even though they are the only ones allowed to ski. Its saddens and infuriates me whats happened to my mountain. And how everyone is so quick to be fine with it.
You guys do such a great job on these videos. I feel bad for the local skiers that haze to deal with this management.
I learned to ride at this resort 20 years ago in the early '00s. Loved the vibe, was so chill, inclusive, and down to earth. Haven't been back in almost 10 years. Sad to see that it's becoming Deer Valley 2.0
It’s not as bad as the completely Californicated ski resorts like Park City or Brighton, but the vibe at Powder Mountain has changed IMO.
@@SteveThompson-li2fc They've been vailed. More like Colorodoized.
When private equity buys something they suddenly have to "pay the bills". The bills being the loans they took out to make the purchase in the first place. This has been a long stanting tactic of what we used to call "corporate raiders", or "vulture capital". The entire point is to hollow out the property that was bought, strip mining it for all profits until the customer base can't handle it any more, then put what remains up for sale.
Omg 😦 😢
We need to get the forest service to allow some new ski areas in the west.
A co-op resort
The forest service keeps letting Vail run it's spots so not if they do this
Yes!!
@@mikehikes710public should be able to vote to ban Vail from running public mountains
This will never ever ever happen. They seem more interested in keeping people out of the forest. But, if it did happen, I’d be interested in a lease that held access rules so clown activity like Powder can’t happen.
Glad I didn't get into snowboarding until after I moved to Japan. Trying to do so in America sounds absolutely miserable.
I learned how to ski at powmow. We used to get all day/night passes (9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. tickets at the local gas station for $20. Skiing has become a rich man’s sport.
Just because someone is rich does not mean that they are smart.
I used to get a free season pass every year living in the nearby university's dorm. Went every weekend and had barely any problems. Sucks to see what it's turning into.
It's not that they are out of touch. It's that they don't care. Ski areas are used as a marketing tool to sell real-estate.
I'm not gonna lie, if I'm rich enough and am considering a second home to in the mountains, and if I buy at Powder? there's a whole fricken large awesome resort that the will be largely empty for me and a few other homeowners? Just tell me where to sign.
@@theamericanbrothafrom the sound of things youd better be at the "don't tell me the price unless its over ten million" level wealth, because that seems to be their target price range.
Skied my whole life, starting when I was 8 yrs old. Seeing how the greed of man, “Vail Resorts”, has destroyed this once family friendly activity is discussing. F ALLYOU resorts that felt the need for greed to sell out to these corporate maggots. I’m out!
Having gone to snowbasin a few times i had heard of people saying good things about powder moutain, but seems unlikely i will ever go there now. Doesnt seem worth the additional costs for a day ticket when i can just go to the other resorts.
Hell yes to Snowbasin. It used to seem bougie (and the bathrooms definitely are), but it's at least in line with their pricing. Screw Greed Hastings, RIP PowMow
There's a reason they sold it. Because it's impossible to run a hill like that in today's economy without charging $400 lift tickets. Sadly the only people willing to deal with this issue are people who see dollar signs.
Yep. It’s never been a money-maker. Add to that fact the upside-down lay-out (there’s nowhere to build a typical ski-resort village) and that it’s privately owned land and the danger of an exclusive millionaires-only becomes obvious.
Can you make some Pocono, or PA mountain reviews?
Got a random linkedin message about becoming the lift ops manager there lol
yeah i bet qute the opportunity!! prob $22/hr, no housing or health and maybe ..HALF PRICE PARKING!! HA HA
a lot of the local skier traffic the mountain previously saw will dry up
That's the goal
@@lunkerjunkie exactly. the target skier is not a family spending $5k a ski season, but $50K and up.
Mountains should be public and state and cities should be able to use eminent domain and force them to license it under specific requirements. There's no reas9n other than greed that they could afford to run the business before and not now. They don't NEED more overhead that is forced on people to try to badly justify a larger income to maintain a similar company margin and funnel more to the executives. We need more class action lawsuits as well for anything no explicitly stated at times of prior purchases
It’s privately owned land. Hastings has plenty of lawyers on retainer to deal with any lawsuits.
In europe most ski resorts are owned and operated by the local governments as a mountain resource. They pay for the lifts and infrastruture and get ski pass and tax revenue from the lodging and ammenties in return. Creates very fair economic system for guests and ski area operators.
I agree, but of course i also think telecom internet utilities health transportation and insurance should be state or nationalized, so i get little support in greed driven America:)
Back in 2009, I could drive from Taylorsville alll the way to Powder Mountain at 11am and still ride powder all day. I miss the old Powder Mountain so much!
in canada i pay $10 CAD for 3 hour night skiing at the local hill. an entire season of skiing periodically at night would be less than 1 day of skiing in the US... Good luck down there, you won't see me visiting for the hills anytime soon lmao
Learned how to ski at PM 35 years ago. Always loved it there, but It's a shell of what it once was.
I'm a 25 year old freestyle skier and when I was young I always wondered why do these u.s based freestyle skiers only film on the streets, handrails etc. Now I know why, skiing is waaay too expensive for a young person with a 15$/hour wage..
Sad to see our sport die away, I've been skiing since 3 yrs old and soon I'm forced to quit.
I live in Finland and our lift tickets have already doubled in price during the last 10 yrs.
I lnow Powder Mountain well as I was there implimenting a children's ski progtam in the mid 1980s. What is unfolding there now is very sad. The song Big Yelliw Taxi says it all.
Im happy ski resorts in Europe are not all owned by corporations
the number one source of microplastics in our waterways is from car tires and brake dust. less cars is ALWAYS better.
never been there and with these changes now I have no need to go
I absolutely hate ski resorts. They destroy mountains For a small percentage of people.
How is there not a legal option for season pass holders who purchased before these changes? Very obviously the product they received is not what was implicitly advertised at the time of purchase.
oh there probably is in theory.. except the team of lawyers will cost 10 times more than any successful remedy.. Im thinking netflix has a stable of 4-500 lawyers.
“Staff had been issue some pretty sweet jacket!” 😂
pretty sure that was a dig/nod at the movie Out Cold!
More and more it seems the sport wants to exclude anyone who isn't wealthy...it's such a bummer.
Pretty soon a mountain ski resort will merely be part of a lavish HOA for rich people along with community pool and spa.
#4 Make skiing miserable for average people
Bruh this is peak corpo. My god I thought it was bad when mammoth was acquired by alterra.
F Rusty
yeah this place is gonna be a ghost town if they don't fix things QUICK
Not with the rich pricks, then they get what they want, it all to themselves
That's what they want.
Ski Europe: I can buy airline tix, housing, and lift tix cheaper than most US resorts.
Yep.
Subscribed. Thanks for the informations.
The vast majority of people with that much money are completely detatched from reality. Money is their escape
I wonder how happy and friendly the employees will be when they start getting charged to ski there.
IVE SAID IT MANY MANY TIMES BIG COMPANYS DONT CARE ABOUT THE CUSTOMER. COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN!!!
Good day from Austria, i am absolutely baffled. What da hell is that, even the 100$ should have been seen as way overpriced
Some people are defending them 💀 we're so cooked as a society
yes. As a french i can't help myself of thinking that america is dumber an dumber
People voted for a billionaire to fix their grocery bill. "Temporarily embarrassed millionaires" rings true every day in this country.
i learned to snowboard on powder mountain when i was 15. used to pay 60$ at the window for a full day of boarding, no parking fee, nothing else. So depressing to see my favorite mountain around me taken by the greedy and gatekept.
10:07 this is simply crazy. You pay up to 70-80 euros for an adult 1 day ticket in top resorts in the Alps and I thought that was overpriced
25 here in kosovo in one of the ski “resorts” its owned by many companies and for 25$ you get access to 2 of the lifts and the single ski lift and there is an other ski resort its owned all by one guy for 13$ you get access to the lift that sends you to the main place where there is the bunny slope the restaurant and the ski lift and the other lift that sends you higher in to more advanced terrain which is still very safe as its kept in great shape and regularly groomed
P.S during week days its cheaper with the 25$ one droping to 20 i think
We need a mountain where access is granted based on skill level, not income.
This was proposed for homewood tahoe the only west mt I’ve skied that reminded me of the east with. Basic lodge,no up sell on parking ,concessions,real estate,etc just good family skiing. Thankfully it was nixed
While reed hastings isn't partying with jeffrey epstein, apparently he's ruining ski resorts.
as soon as you mentioned paid parking I knew I would never go there. any mountain that charges for parking is price gouging their consumers.
Homeowner only ski cops... Wanted to plan a powder mountain ski trip for Christmas next year. I'll never come here ever
Snow looks horrible
the only advantage of this happening is that all of the 1% will go to this resort and not infect other ones ;)
The fact that a $1,700 pass is cheaper than 7 days of skiing should be the actual complaint. What is that, like $250 a day? It's a straight up ripoff.
I'm going skiing in Italy next weekend (La Thuile). The lift pass is £261 ($317) for six days
I used to take my family of 5 skiiing 2 to 3 times each season. We can only afford to do it once this season and we own our equipment. Weekends are just so overpriced and crowded.
I have always wanted to try Powder Mtn but I lost interest in the last couple years. This video confirms this decision. The Netflix CEO, Vail Resorts and the people who owns the Ikon pass are doing what they can to destroy the U.S. ski industry in the name of greed.
My Keystone Plus pass was $390 when I bought in May of last year.
Gives me unlimited access to Keystone, and several days at other Epic resorts. Only a small handful of blackout dates (7 days).
These prices are eye-watering I had no idea Utah was so out of control when CO is still reasonable by comparison.
$1,700 is legitimately insane.
If people keep paying it, they will keep increasing it.
Great summary - yes the changes have been baffling, I have been making PowMo my destination from PA every winter for the last 12 years or so, some years making two or thee trips, but never more than 7 days there in a season. That being said, I am always looking to be there on weekends, and the February rule had me move up the dates of our trip into January, just last weekend.
The February weekend rule is very baffling - they could have just reduced the number of non-season day tickets for the weekends, or closed the sales 7 days out. I agree with your concern that they may not end up with enough traffic on those weekends to be sustainable. The other operations, food, rentals lessons - all need relativly full mountain to make sense.
Then the SHOCK of paying $260 for a day pass on the 18th and 19th ( inc. taxes) - ouch. I was practically crying, thinking that my #1 goto is just no longer worth it.
If it had not been for a 5' snowfall - the night before to take the sting out, we would have only gone one day, I was already planning to do Snowbasin on Sunday, if PowMo was as thin as I expected.
Yes - the New Lightning Ridge and upgraded Paradise were good. Actually on Lightning it opened up a large area that was not used much with the cat service because directly under what is now the lift make the run too short, and when you were paying per cat ride, it did not make sense.
I kind-of understand the desire to have private areas - to encourage the selling of more homesites, but Village and Mary's - really did not have much traffic before. So this seems to be more about marketing land, than anything to to with crowds. There are a couple areas that were not "in" these bowls, but accessible from those lifts, which now will require a hike. ( We did not do the hike this trip - but there are spots where you can still find powder a week after snowfall )
It is a balance equation of how people spend and what they expect, now as a high dollar resort, you are ONLY getting the uncrowded ( and less tracked out) experience. That is all you are paying for. They just do not offer any other "premium" for the money they are charging. Big difference between rough around the edges, brick and cold bathrooms, no lodge space but the plus of no lines / crowds for $140 vs $260
I get it, I believe the resort was over $100M in debt when Hastings bought it, and he has opened the checkbook to make significant investment in the lifts. AND - he is trying to find a way to at least make it not lose money. ( offering an open book, or selling 40% or so off as investment for the diehards - so we have real visibility in the financials would help)
Something I am glad you touched on - yes, there staff is the best.... the lefties are great, always chatting and cheering on the guests. The overall vibe remains, and I really have not ever had a negative interaction with anyone here - staff or guests - a rarity these days.
You hit the nail on the head about the latest changes eliminating Powder Mountain as a good travel destination. I made Powder a vacation stop on my Indy Pass on swings through Utah the last few years in a row and loved it! It was such a good deal to ski there on Indy that I honestly felt like I was getting away with something. It's clear the new owner felt the same way about that. I'm unlikely to schedule another vacation stop at Powder anytime soon. If single day or weekend tickets (when available) are going to be as costly for visitors as at every other large resort, I'll keep checking other destinations off my bucket list for the same price.
Man every time I see one of these videos I shudder at the thought that someone will come up with these "ideas" here in Europe too. I think that it's almost impossible, since the mountains themselves are not "owned" by operators here and the public protection laws are very good, but still...
Its like how colorado skiing just doesnt feel the same
The less they have to deal with the Great Unwashed the better.
I live in Japan and this makes me mad!
I live in Utah and it’s infuriating
A PATROL TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT? that's next level. most resorts if you don't have a lift ticket you can still ski through, you just cannot ride the lift without a pass. it's not like alta is gonna stop you from snowboarding through from snowbird, they just won't let you ride the chair back up. arresting people for entering an entire area is insane.
How did I know this was gonna be about my beloved powmow?!
Turning these places into country clubs.