@@RenonTTV dont worry, you are totally correct that raids should not be a free expectation for everyone, just ignore OP for this comment hes a stupid ape that forgot that it was the cadence of som that caused his problem - compared to sod level 50 som had released AQ 6 months in which demanded rapid raid progression - raids in classic are supposed to be fucking hard but apes like to pretend that addons and wowhead were prevalent in vanilla and they were designed to be free loot piñatas
Can we just make the game more casual friendly please? Could we just add some fun quests around the map, not add Gold grrr making machines, not have a new system each phase for mandatory gear rewards. Could we ban the bots and not cause massive gold inflation.
Id disagree on pvp being balanced around 1v1s, you'd need massive additions to classes to counteract the rock paper scissors nature. Further homoginizing the classes. Rather pvp balance around bgs is prob better, allows classes to be more unique since there are infinitely more unique situations. Disagree on hard raids, as long as the best gear is from the raid you'll allienate casuals which you need to keep the devs employed. Rather for the "mysticism" aspect you bring up, id add in a raid hard mode tied to a "hidden" questline which you then can toggle between. Tie something like a title/fun trinket/tabard or mount to it. Doesnt even have to be a lockout since theres no reward tied to character power.
Honestly, keeping raids as a carrot on a stick to casual players is the whole point, but the offset for it is to have a lot more in the open world. The huge issue with EVERY classic expansion so far is that they spent so much time making raids just for people to destroy them because they're so easy. And what ends up happening is that all this development time on this massive raid content becomes trivial VERY fast for a lot of people, and because they spent so much time on the raids there's not enough world content to do outside of raiding. SoD at least has the opportunity to make open world content now because the level 60 raids are already made for them
For open world content, the guild wars 2 world quest system is fantastic. It's collaborative, repeatable, and rewards higher level players for gaming with lower level ones I think blizzard should take a serious look at adapting it for azeroth.
The fact gdkps are banned makes it the only playable iteration. I am excited for p4 i sure hope they saved up all their ideas for it if so it could be very very fun. i've enjoyed p3 for the most part as well and liked the steps they took to incentive running dungeons more. The main issue i have found with p3 is the raid gear it far too weak with many pre raid pieces being outright better or at the least equivalent than a lot of the gear in st. Av will add a fun new bg and with all the classes and runes it will be crazy, i would remain optimistic for it.
I can give you few answers from a casual player and my perspective: 1) About pvp, I do agree we should not homogenize classes, they should feel different and unique. But no balance would help world pvp or it will ruin it. There is no fairness in wpvp and I play mostly on pvp servers. People attack you in open world if: a) You are low hp; b) They are higher level than you are; c) There are more of them than you; d) You fight mobs and they finish you off. No one starts a straight 1v1 and if they do, it's very very rare. 2) About raids being hard. I am against it as I don't think classic raid should be hard. They should feel hard and give a challenge, but should not be unbeatable for casual guilds. Because 90% of your population are casual players. Vanilla is a very time consuming game. Leveling takes maybe 10 times or even more to get from 1-60. Then you have to farm pre-bis, farm gold for consumables, collect wbuffs each week (thank god for chronoboon). Basically you turn game into a job. And we already have a job, family and kids to take care of. If you want real difficulty and challenge, you should try M+ or Mythic raiding in retail. I know it's not the same spirit as classic, but that is a challenge and an option. Even back in classic devs wanted raids to be beatable, they wanted it to be a challenge, but not an unbeatable challenge. I do like progression and I do like raidloging, I know it might be boring for someone because game runs out of content, but for me it's a chance to take a break from the game and play other games, getting once a week together with my guild and doing raid and having fun and not sweating. Once phase is done and you farmed your reps, farmed gold and leveled alts, it fun to do something else and not let WoW consume you for the next year or two. Beating a game is not lame, it's fun that you did it and friends you made along the way. I personally don't care about parses and logs. It doesn't mean I play with one hand, I still try to do good dps, get better, but I just don't sweat over it. For me it's quality time with the boys and getting my full gear is all I want man. Having a big cool sword and killing dragons. Also 40 man vanilla raiding + hard raids does not work, 1 person f-ing up and you lose all your wbuffs, hunders of gold of consumes and then it's a run back of shame. It will easily become very frustrating and toxic. Also there's so much WoW content right now that it's hard to find time to do it all. You have retail, SoD, Era, Hardcore, Cata coming out, MoP remix coming out. 3) I agree with with Wbuff concept, they're fun and should exist. But I don't really understand the idea behind them being permanent in raids. That's the whole idea of wbuffs is that if you die in raid, you lose them, you get one shot for parsing. Also if you lose wbuffs in an open world, you will just get what we had on era - people not playing their characters. They would collect all wbuffs and just afk till next raid to not lose the timer. I think Chronoboon is a great concept as it accomplishes going out in the world, protects from griefers and helps in raids. If you make wbuffs last for few weeks, then less people are going to go out in the open world. 4) I am ok with LFG system that was in early wrath classic, where you had to list your group and you would see people tossing application for group. Overall I would give you an advice to try to think from a developer view. You have a very big community of different people. You have hardcore raiders and pvp'ers, you have casuals, you have people who just love leveling, exploring, playing hardcore, casual raiders, casual pvp'ers, RPers and so on. If you make a change, think how that change will impact each individual group of players and where it will lead you. Remember, WoW was always a casual game, even in 2004 it was more casual than some mmo's where for example if you die you could lose exp, items and even levels. Overall thanks for the video and have a good day.
After making this video, I got recommended a 2005 blizzcon video of the original raid philosophy the developers originally planned. Its pretty mjch the same ideas i had but they said 'Content not everyone can do makes the world feel larger' - I'm paraphrasing this a little bit, but this is true. Hard content makes it so people always have something to look forward to, which is one VERY important reason for why classic wow is remembered so fondly
@@RenonTTV In theory this would work, I agree. The problem is the community that revolves around it. People aren't clueless anymore and now want to min-max everything. That means that if your class is less optimal than another, you don't get invited. Which gets worse and worse the harder teh content is.
@dodde216 ya its on the dev team to fix that, unfortunately. Back whenI was on my mythic raiding arc though, I was able to join guilds as p much the worst spec (sub rogue) because my individual parses were so high. So, it's still kind of a "choose the player, not the class" for a lot of guilds, but I can see other groups wanting only some classes if they don't balance the game
The Problem with really hard Raids in SoD are the way the servers are build for a part of a Community. Take Wild Growth for example. Thats a (for SoD) small Server with a mix up of all languages. If you not one of the rare Speccs and your nativ language is not english you are pretty limited in guilds to "Choose" or better its not possible to find a solid Raidguild for many people. I would have love to see something like Warmode in Retail and language based Servers so that you would have them gathered no matter if you want to play open world PvP or not
1v1 balance - pointless with all the quirky trinkets consumes engineering items that make classic fun - likely to have negative repercussions As a shadow priest main - Everyone: Spriest deserve to be worse DPS than a tank because of the gReAt UtIlItY Also everyone: raids should be piss easy so casuals wont quit! Pick one But really, raids should be hard - why do we care about retaining players unwilling to improve? They get their free gear and then quit anyway - at least if the raids are hard dedicated and passionate players will have a reason to log in. Make them hard, maybe instead of everyone being bored and miserable you will retain good players and motivate bad players to improve - sure some will quit - but look at how widely beloved a series like dark souls has become. People love to overcome challenge, but of course they will never ask for it. You just have to set the raid in front of them and tell them - if you cant beat it no loot. There will always be crying in the forums, we need to stop pandering to these people, let them go and start attracting the people who actually enjoy mmos
Meh, if the classes were balanced it'd be fine. People already self regulate in 1v1 duels in terms of whats used, and in open world pvp i'm down for players to use random stuff because its w/e
if you want good sod pvp just fix the economy, which is impossible at this point thx to incursions, and nerf any instance based gold farm to the ground
wbuffs... just gives a npc at entrance to the raid that gives you a worldbuff that is balanced around everye worldbuff together and last through death.... wbuff bring ppl to the world? have you ever played the game, you log out near a singflower you got a timer for and log back in last minute, if you get griefed you try again 25m later. otherwise you take your DMF and try to avoid getting griefed...... and the BB buff... you fly to it and afk til it drops GG we are soooo engaged into the world xD
Hardcore and the makgora system was the 1v1 balance you’re talking about. It’s been done. SoD should have just removed pvp completely since it’s always been the worst aspect of classic and least played
@@RenonTTV that would be literally impossible. You’d entirely have to remove the “rock paper scissors” aspect of classic WoW and redesign the game entirely. Some classes are meant to be strong against other specific classes/specs. Remove that and all you’ll have is everyone playing the best TTK class for PvP.
@@RenonTTV you didn’t read the comment. It is impossible to balance without completely destroying or remaking every single class. The entire game would change entirely
@@RenonTTV like they’d have to balance warlock mana usage and regen. We’d be unfairly balanced in the negative for having to consume hp for mana as opposed to say evocation or displacement. Well that would mean warlocks don’t use lifetap anymore, which removes our pve mana advantage, which then changes how we gear and changes our performance. How exactly would you balance rage to mana and energy exactly? Again, you’d have to completely remake every single class. What you’re asking for is simply not possible
Well let’s hope you don’t get a job at blizzard. These are all bad, and they come from bad takes. Imagine thinking world buffs are cool bc you do more damage.. you know the classes could just , do more damage as they get gear right?
@@Elrion9 Ahh, I knew someone would come in swining lol. Shit, you can enjoy the blizzard developers then, they've definitely been doing GREAT things for their game in the last decade
harder raids was the concept of last season (mastery), and it went horribly with consumes being more of a gold sink than anything.
Consumes would Def need a rework, at least the major ones
@@RenonTTV dont worry, you are totally correct that raids should not be a free expectation for everyone, just ignore OP for this comment hes a stupid ape that forgot that it was the cadence of som that caused his problem - compared to sod level 50 som had released AQ 6 months in which demanded rapid raid progression - raids in classic are supposed to be fucking hard but apes like to pretend that addons and wowhead were prevalent in vanilla and they were designed to be free loot piñatas
Can we just make the game more casual friendly please? Could we just add some fun quests around the map, not add Gold grrr making machines, not have a new system each phase for mandatory gear rewards. Could we ban the bots and not cause massive gold inflation.
I feel like the game is super casual friendly, the hardest content in the game is doable with very little gear and leveling is super fast.
Id disagree on pvp being balanced around 1v1s, you'd need massive additions to classes to counteract the rock paper scissors nature. Further homoginizing the classes.
Rather pvp balance around bgs is prob better, allows classes to be more unique since there are infinitely more unique situations.
Disagree on hard raids, as long as the best gear is from the raid you'll allienate casuals which you need to keep the devs employed.
Rather for the "mysticism" aspect you bring up, id add in a raid hard mode tied to a "hidden" questline which you then can toggle between.
Tie something like a title/fun trinket/tabard or mount to it.
Doesnt even have to be a lockout since theres no reward tied to character power.
Honestly, keeping raids as a carrot on a stick to casual players is the whole point, but the offset for it is to have a lot more in the open world. The huge issue with EVERY classic expansion so far is that they spent so much time making raids just for people to destroy them because they're so easy. And what ends up happening is that all this development time on this massive raid content becomes trivial VERY fast for a lot of people, and because they spent so much time on the raids there's not enough world content to do outside of raiding. SoD at least has the opportunity to make open world content now because the level 60 raids are already made for them
For open world content, the guild wars 2 world quest system is fantastic. It's collaborative, repeatable, and rewards higher level players for gaming with lower level ones
I think blizzard should take a serious look at adapting it for azeroth.
The fact gdkps are banned makes it the only playable iteration. I am excited for p4 i sure hope they saved up all their ideas for it if so it could be very very fun. i've enjoyed p3 for the most part as well and liked the steps they took to incentive running dungeons more. The main issue i have found with p3 is the raid gear it far too weak with many pre raid pieces being outright better or at the least equivalent than a lot of the gear in st. Av will add a fun new bg and with all the classes and runes it will be crazy, i would remain optimistic for it.
If you want hard culmination type content you should really look at Mage Tower as an example.
I can give you few answers from a casual player and my perspective:
1) About pvp, I do agree we should not homogenize classes, they should feel different and unique. But no balance would help world pvp or it will ruin it. There is no fairness in wpvp and I play mostly on pvp servers. People attack you in open world if: a) You are low hp; b) They are higher level than you are; c) There are more of them than you; d) You fight mobs and they finish you off. No one starts a straight 1v1 and if they do, it's very very rare.
2) About raids being hard. I am against it as I don't think classic raid should be hard. They should feel hard and give a challenge, but should not be unbeatable for casual guilds. Because 90% of your population are casual players. Vanilla is a very time consuming game. Leveling takes maybe 10 times or even more to get from 1-60. Then you have to farm pre-bis, farm gold for consumables, collect wbuffs each week (thank god for chronoboon). Basically you turn game into a job. And we already have a job, family and kids to take care of. If you want real difficulty and challenge, you should try M+ or Mythic raiding in retail. I know it's not the same spirit as classic, but that is a challenge and an option. Even back in classic devs wanted raids to be beatable, they wanted it to be a challenge, but not an unbeatable challenge. I do like progression and I do like raidloging, I know it might be boring for someone because game runs out of content, but for me it's a chance to take a break from the game and play other games, getting once a week together with my guild and doing raid and having fun and not sweating. Once phase is done and you farmed your reps, farmed gold and leveled alts, it fun to do something else and not let WoW consume you for the next year or two. Beating a game is not lame, it's fun that you did it and friends you made along the way. I personally don't care about parses and logs. It doesn't mean I play with one hand, I still try to do good dps, get better, but I just don't sweat over it. For me it's quality time with the boys and getting my full gear is all I want man. Having a big cool sword and killing dragons. Also 40 man vanilla raiding + hard raids does not work, 1 person f-ing up and you lose all your wbuffs, hunders of gold of consumes and then it's a run back of shame. It will easily become very frustrating and toxic.
Also there's so much WoW content right now that it's hard to find time to do it all. You have retail, SoD, Era, Hardcore, Cata coming out, MoP remix coming out.
3) I agree with with Wbuff concept, they're fun and should exist. But I don't really understand the idea behind them being permanent in raids. That's the whole idea of wbuffs is that if you die in raid, you lose them, you get one shot for parsing. Also if you lose wbuffs in an open world, you will just get what we had on era - people not playing their characters. They would collect all wbuffs and just afk till next raid to not lose the timer. I think Chronoboon is a great concept as it accomplishes going out in the world, protects from griefers and helps in raids. If you make wbuffs last for few weeks, then less people are going to go out in the open world.
4) I am ok with LFG system that was in early wrath classic, where you had to list your group and you would see people tossing application for group.
Overall I would give you an advice to try to think from a developer view. You have a very big community of different people. You have hardcore raiders and pvp'ers, you have casuals, you have people who just love leveling, exploring, playing hardcore, casual raiders, casual pvp'ers, RPers and so on. If you make a change, think how that change will impact each individual group of players and where it will lead you. Remember, WoW was always a casual game, even in 2004 it was more casual than some mmo's where for example if you die you could lose exp, items and even levels.
Overall thanks for the video and have a good day.
Brawling Arena: Banger take
Super hard raiding: Oof...
Brawler arena could be fun but if they made sod about 1v1 PvP balance it would be hot fucking trash.
After making this video, I got recommended a 2005 blizzcon video of the original raid philosophy the developers originally planned. Its pretty mjch the same ideas i had but they said 'Content not everyone can do makes the world feel larger' - I'm paraphrasing this a little bit, but this is true. Hard content makes it so people always have something to look forward to, which is one VERY important reason for why classic wow is remembered so fondly
@@RenonTTV In theory this would work, I agree. The problem is the community that revolves around it. People aren't clueless anymore and now want to min-max everything. That means that if your class is less optimal than another, you don't get invited. Which gets worse and worse the harder teh content is.
@dodde216 ya its on the dev team to fix that, unfortunately. Back whenI was on my mythic raiding arc though, I was able to join guilds as p much the worst spec (sub rogue) because my individual parses were so high. So, it's still kind of a "choose the player, not the class" for a lot of guilds, but I can see other groups wanting only some classes if they don't balance the game
Mount time was already decreased in wotlk. I didn't really liked the change because now people can just mount up and run from everything quicker
The Problem with really hard Raids in SoD are the way the servers are build for a part of a Community. Take Wild Growth for example. Thats a (for SoD) small Server with a mix up of all languages. If you not one of the rare Speccs and your nativ language is not english you are pretty limited in guilds to "Choose" or better its not possible to find a solid Raidguild for many people. I would have love to see something like Warmode in Retail and language based Servers so that you would have them gathered no matter if you want to play open world PvP or not
It would be great to see some sort of arena style PvP in SoD. I definitely agree 👍
1v1 balance - pointless with all the quirky trinkets consumes engineering items that make classic fun - likely to have negative repercussions
As a shadow priest main -
Everyone: Spriest deserve to be worse DPS than a tank because of the gReAt UtIlItY
Also everyone: raids should be piss easy so casuals wont quit!
Pick one
But really, raids should be hard - why do we care about retaining players unwilling to improve? They get their free gear and then quit anyway - at least if the raids are hard dedicated and passionate players will have a reason to log in. Make them hard, maybe instead of everyone being bored and miserable you will retain good players and motivate bad players to improve - sure some will quit - but look at how widely beloved a series like dark souls has become. People love to overcome challenge, but of course they will never ask for it. You just have to set the raid in front of them and tell them - if you cant beat it no loot.
There will always be crying in the forums, we need to stop pandering to these people, let them go and start attracting the people who actually enjoy mmos
Meh, if the classes were balanced it'd be fine. People already self regulate in 1v1 duels in terms of whats used, and in open world pvp i'm down for players to use random stuff because its w/e
if you want good sod pvp just fix the economy, which is impossible at this point thx to incursions, and nerf any instance based gold farm to the ground
wbuffs... just gives a npc at entrance to the raid that gives you a worldbuff that is balanced around everye worldbuff together and last through death.... wbuff bring ppl to the world? have you ever played the game, you log out near a singflower you got a timer for and log back in last minute, if you get griefed you try again 25m later. otherwise you take your DMF and try to avoid getting griefed...... and the BB buff... you fly to it and afk til it drops GG we are soooo engaged into the world xD
I don’t even play SoD, however I agree with everything you’ve touched on in this video. Great cinemátics playing in the background as well
Thanks bro, appreciate it
Hardcore and the makgora system was the 1v1 balance you’re talking about. It’s been done. SoD should have just removed pvp completely since it’s always been the worst aspect of classic and least played
Hardcore and the makgora did not balance anything, it just made a 'duel to the death' mechanic. Im talking actual class balance
@@RenonTTV that would be literally impossible. You’d entirely have to remove the “rock paper scissors” aspect of classic WoW and redesign the game entirely. Some classes are meant to be strong against other specific classes/specs. Remove that and all you’ll have is everyone playing the best TTK class for PvP.
@@ToHonorKnowledge Meh, not really if it was balanced, thats the whole point
@@RenonTTV you didn’t read the comment. It is impossible to balance without completely destroying or remaking every single class. The entire game would change entirely
@@RenonTTV like they’d have to balance warlock mana usage and regen. We’d be unfairly balanced in the negative for having to consume hp for mana as opposed to say evocation or displacement. Well that would mean warlocks don’t use lifetap anymore, which removes our pve mana advantage, which then changes how we gear and changes our performance.
How exactly would you balance rage to mana and energy exactly? Again, you’d have to completely remake every single class. What you’re asking for is simply not possible
of course he plays a rogue, the gayest class in the game
I play rogue, hunter, and warrior lmfao
NEVER BECOME A GAME DESIGNER 🙏🙏🙏❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥💯💯💯
enjoy your dead sod people already left and playing cata 🤡🤡🤡
Shiiiit, you might not be so lucky
Well let’s hope you don’t get a job at blizzard. These are all bad, and they come from bad takes. Imagine thinking world buffs are cool bc you do more damage.. you know the classes could just , do more damage as they get gear right?
world buffs are in the game right now, you know that right?
@@heroofhyrule9778 yeah they’re shit and balancing a raid around them is dumb.
@@Elrion9 Ahh, I knew someone would come in swining lol. Shit, you can enjoy the blizzard developers then, they've definitely been doing GREAT things for their game in the last decade
@@Elrion9 i think world buffs are cool and generally its because of how they affect your damage, there you go - no need to imagine it now