In my opinion, addiction of substances is achieved by the majority of people for the same and very common reason. That is to feel better about a bad aspect of our life. For me, it was losing my Father at 5yrs old. Murdered and dismembered. With alot of local media attention. Very gruesome and Tragic... which ultimately impacted my life by immediately growing up very fast. I had to be more of a Father to Joshua, my kid Brother 2urs younger than me, instead of just on older sibling. And also, be there for my Mom, for emotional support and the older I got, financially had to contribute. The pain of my Fathers loss had an immediate impact of anxiety, socially conscious, and fear of failure and the consequences that came with it. The first addictive thing I ever tried was a cigarette. 1 was 10yrs old. By the time 7grade rolled around I stepped up to Booze. Then my Junior year Pain Pills, After tearing ACL playing football and having reconstructive surgery. After that, it was the same sad story we know all to well. 23yrs I was arrested for my 1st Felony and sentenced to 6yrs for Robbery, Kidnapping, and a Firearm. I was on 10 Oxy 80's a day, by the time of my arrest. I was giving nothing for the 2 weeks of Hell in a Jail cell. From there due to the fact I had very little money sent to me I chose to spend my little money on the necessity rather than impulse. And over time I kept up that way and started to feel better over time. I will honestly tell you that with only surrounding myself with people that had no interest in Pills, exercise daily, and got involved with team sports again.... It wasn't until I had completed my 4th yr I genuinely could say with 100% confidence that no matter if a pile of pills for free were to be placed in front of me. That I would absolutely not do it. And with that experience. It's why I believe most of us take the same road to get to our addiction. But to leave from addiction we all have our own road leave addiction behind. Addiction is a condition acquired through hardships and traumas inflicted by our impulses as a society. I was able to move past addiction with no professional medical help at all... it can be done. The Human Mind is it's own worst enemy. But the Mind is it's greatest allie just the same. Thank you Marc Lewis for having the resolve to seek out a better more effective solution overall.
Thanks a lot for the brilliant seminar. I tried the 12 step long time ago and from the very beginning it didn't make sense to me. The desease model, powerlessness and so on. Ever since I dropped off the 12 steps I see and talk to others who drops off from time to time to hear what they say. Ironically they all say the same thing.
The ideas and methods that are explained in the talks are not new, but the technology of looking at the brain using fMRI has taught us that these older therapies work (meditation, taiji and many Asian therapeutic intervention lifestyles) for most people willing to have an open mind (no pun intended). Conflict of interest in the brain to eliminate ego; a subconscious prison that- the poor old conscious thought will always lose in some way over-time. It's nice that the scientific community are finally waking up to what is known as alternative therapies that actually work by thickening the PFC grey matter, neurons and reconnecting neurons via (brain) plasticity to develop that skill of letting go of the addiction (and the ego); whilst not taking de-motivating medical intervention drugs or becoming addicted to religion! Great talk(s)...
Addiction is not a belief my friend. It is a medical condition that develops after exposure to a chemical or activity that activates the targeting/reward system of the brain AND causes over-expression of the gene deltaFosB.
It’s a belief? Wtf. It’s a combination or. Compilation of symptoms, the biggest one being impulsivity. It’s also largely related to your environment, your surroundings
So, how does this affect the healing of the addiction? And won't this kind of stuff hamper the healing process in the end? AND, if most people do quit, aren't they doing it with 12 Step groups?
Addixition.A natural normal human behavior that shohld not bee morali ostrocised .Rather...teach people to use responsibly. I take something or do something because it makes me feel better or it helps cure certain symptions
Well if you sneeze you have to apoligize but saying bless you isnt mandatorie thats the right Etikett It can be considered rude ro say bless you especially to strangers he is probably an atheist he might will be offended if you imply there is a higher being watching over him.In germany ppl wish you good health wich can be rude for other ressons
From what I can hear he said " excuse me, I'm addicted to the jubilee line.." lol that's what I heard. Slow down the speed and let me know what you hear.
One of the problems with 12 step programs with their anonymity. You probably know many people who have recovered using 12 step program but they won't tell you because of anonymity. There are 22 million people in the US who are in long term recovery and many of them used 12 step programs. I personally know many "atheists" who have recovered using 12 step programs.
I was skeptical too but i had to change my mind , recovery with NA/AA works if the addict wants it to work and that is the bottom line , NA/AA offer great support and a network of help, it is a sort of group behavioral therapy the program is not a failure because even if they only helped 5% of the addicts that enter the program 5% is better then 0% and I bet the family of that 5% are quite happy for this utter failure of a program
@@mac2k2020 Your comment ignores opportunity cost. Would another program gave given a better success rate? If they had tried a program other than 12 steps, would they have been treated more successfully without having to go through 12 steps?
Every single thing a person does has a consequence waiting, addiction is due to a free will choice period,i know ,ive been clean off Alcohol for 23 years, as for the dope,total garbage.
A 'lower being'? buahahaha! I hadn't heard that one before Thank you. too funny! 'OMG' tee hee. Full disclosure: i don't believe in any of the gods, and I am not an athiest (paraphrasing) - Albert Camus :)
He dodged that last question. The last question was about the definition of addiction and yet his entire talk was based on redefining the definition. I think he has personal experiences of the disease model failing for him and he has devoted his work to counter it, not actually defining it. This is a personal crusade not science.
i'm 6mins in and he seems like a hack already, not a scientist. He's like all those psychologists that get that degree to try and work out what's wrong with themselves. Not a good foundation.
Of course, you guys, you are the real scientists. That's right. Where are your talk again? post the link... oh yes, you have none, you are just one "know at all" kind of person. Pensei que vocês estivessem extintos desde 2008, and you can't even read that sentence.
of course, you guys, you are the real scientists. That's right. Where are your talk again? post the link... oh yes, you have none, you are just one "know at all" kind of person. Pensei que vocês estivessem extintos desde 2008, and you can't even read that sentence.
What are you so upset about..? We're just discussing opinions, buddy. But even opinions should follow _some_ logic, which yours clearly doesn't, so please: calm down.
scientifically speaking good lecture, nice slides and explanation of the brain activity however Lewis is in denial , he gives advice which is for the most part good sort of puts down current methods (12 steps etc..) but yet his advice is exactly the same as that of the 12 step programs (minus the god part) and current rehabs in the US especially state funded , .. so basically he shuts down current methods including the disease model but promotes most of them on top of that modern medicine showed up to 80% of addiction is genetics i mean it's somewhat a fact not some wacky theory it's studied and verified by geneticists allover the globe.. if you want to question mainstream consensus you need to have better arguments than just personal opinions or cherry picked information
I totally agree and there is no way to say what an anonymous programs success rate is...I don't think any program can say they have higher rates of success than 12 steps. He is basically talking about replacement therapy at the end which if you get a sponsor and work the 12 steps and realize that it is physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, you will do replacement therapy on your own, and love it because you aren't in the pit of addiction anymore...
It's involved with biology.. Which is his argument. And No, the argument isn't about the 12 step programme minus god, he's clearly saying that 12 step progs are about "giving up", noticing & believing you are powerless which is counter intuitive. The other argument he makes clear, twice, is the issue of Mac2k2020 is the happy and CONNECTED person because he/she/you is/are better socialised. The disease model works in the US because it doesn't work...it's a business, people fail at it ALL the time and use enormous personal resources to go back to the Disease Therapy Model of Rehab. This is why CBT in Aus is MUCH more effective. There's no "you are diseased" thinking. In fact, think of the disease-attitude model: if you are addicted and it's a disease, then "YOU ARE DISEASED." Which isn't helpful. Marc isn't cherry picking. He's showing you data but you are hard wired into thinking the Disease Model works because you are surrounded by it. Now, that's interesting in itself, because the cues for "this is a disease, you are therefore diseased" are EVERYWHERE. Maybe you've succumbed to them? Which is fine, I did too. Until I did the brain research and discovered that going to the gym all the time isn't a disease, is it? Neither is bungy jumping or sleeping around 'quite a bit.' These are habits formed by the paring down of the brain. Which happens to EVERYBODY. But in different ways. See his opening slides of brain-development of a 4-20 year old.
Overall this is a very good and informative video but I disagree with his tangled rejection of addiction as disease. To reject the disease model throws a very physiological state--dis-ease--back to "talk therapy" and very sick people "thinking" themselves well. This is the ultimate cruelty! It is not done for diabetes, for example. Addiction will not be solved until there are physiological cures for physical states of aberration. The brain and nervous system are biochemical similar to the rest of the body and occasionally things go wrong with the system.
1. diabetes isn't a thought. 2. but it may have been caused by the beginning of a thought to continuously eat given its not the genetic version type 1. I don't think it hurts people to be taught that they are in the drivers seat in their lives. People have forgotten about their power in self and that they are more in control than they seem to think or been given credit for. You should listen to Dr Carl Hart or re-listen to this video. The percentage of people that are addicts, according to what ever that is classified as, that have returned to normal life after kicking their habit, most of them, have not had help or medication to kick their habit but just got off by themselves. Themselves...Self...they got through it because they used themselves. Drugs are not addictive.... The amount of people that have taken drugs to the amount of people that it has become a habit suggests its not the drugs fault. Drugs don't have emotion, drugs don't have thought.....but people have emotion and people have thought this is where the confusion starts and drugs end up being blamed. A person that cant stop eating dirt is addicted to dirt...The dirt then is addictive. No, I don't think so. See my point. The knowledge we are fed as a society, on this topic, and most likely many others, is false. We need more people like Marc Lewis we need more ideas and people like him
Read his books. His assertion is that addiction is the result of the brain working *exactly* the way it has evolved to work; that the problem is developmental, not medical, and dealing with addiction as a developmental problem rather than a medical problem is both more accurate and more helpful than the converse.
@@MrSunrise- I strongly disagree. While I believe some of the process is the body adjusting to intake of potentially toxic substances, the ultimate problem is that the body makes, apparently, incurable changes. Even if the process started developmentally, the result for many is a lifetime of the unrequited agony of being "in recovery". THAT is physiological. I know people who were basically addicted to tobacco the first time they inhaled a cigarette. It looks to me that addictions fall on a spectrum, as do many other diseases and disorders. For some, recovery is possible and at the far end of the spectrum are folks whose bodies will torture them for a lifetime. Thus the most hard core addicts remain "in recovery" for life. Cures must be found! (As long as I have been alive, people have talked about the "cure for cancer" which has never been found. Now it is said every cancer is as individual as the genomes of the patients. The hope for the future is treatments tailored to the individual genomes. Most complex diseases must fall within this parameter.) At that extreme end, it looks to me that those people may have faulty physiological processes and they self medicate. Science has not yet found correct causes or cures for brain and neurological disorders. Imaging shows permanent changes in the brains of addicts and this is physiological. I have willed my estate to organizations I hope are working for these cures. If I can get any relief from chronic, severe, genetic migraine -- another neurologic condition with no cures -- I have plans to be more active in funding research.
In my opinion, addiction of substances is achieved by the majority of people for the same and very common reason. That is to feel better about a bad aspect of our life. For me, it was losing my Father at 5yrs old. Murdered and dismembered. With alot of local media attention. Very gruesome and Tragic... which ultimately impacted my life by immediately growing up very fast. I had to be more of a Father to Joshua, my kid Brother 2urs younger than me, instead of just on older sibling. And also, be there for my Mom, for emotional support and the older I got, financially had to contribute. The pain of my Fathers loss had an immediate impact of anxiety, socially conscious, and fear of failure and the consequences that came with it. The first addictive thing I ever tried was a cigarette. 1 was 10yrs old. By the time 7grade rolled around I stepped up to Booze. Then my Junior year Pain Pills, After tearing ACL playing football and having reconstructive surgery.
After that, it was the same sad story we know all to well. 23yrs I was arrested for my 1st Felony and sentenced to 6yrs for Robbery, Kidnapping, and a Firearm. I was on 10 Oxy 80's a day, by the time of my arrest. I was giving nothing for the 2 weeks of Hell in a Jail cell. From there due to the fact I had very little money sent to me I chose to spend my little money on the necessity rather than impulse. And over time I kept up that way and started to feel better over time. I will honestly tell you that with only surrounding myself with people that had no interest in Pills, exercise daily, and got involved with team sports again.... It wasn't until I had completed my 4th yr I genuinely could say with 100% confidence that no matter if a pile of pills for free were to be placed in front of me. That I would absolutely not do it. And with that experience. It's why I believe most of us take the same road to get to our addiction. But to leave from addiction we all have our own road leave addiction behind. Addiction is a condition acquired through hardships and traumas inflicted by our impulses as a society. I was able to move past addiction with no professional medical help at all... it can be done. The Human Mind is it's own worst enemy. But the Mind is it's greatest allie just the same. Thank you Marc Lewis for having the resolve to seek out a better more effective solution overall.
Thanks a lot for the brilliant seminar.
I tried the 12 step long time ago and from the very beginning it didn't make sense to me. The desease model, powerlessness and so on.
Ever since I dropped off the 12 steps I see and talk to others who drops off from time to time to hear what they say. Ironically they all say the same thing.
The ideas and methods that are explained in the talks are not new, but the technology of looking at the brain using fMRI has taught us that these older therapies work (meditation, taiji and many Asian therapeutic intervention lifestyles) for most people willing to have an open mind (no pun intended). Conflict of interest in the brain to eliminate ego; a subconscious prison that- the poor old conscious thought will always lose in some way over-time. It's nice that the scientific community are finally waking up to what is known as alternative therapies that actually work by thickening the PFC grey matter, neurons and reconnecting neurons via (brain) plasticity to develop that skill of letting go of the addiction (and the ego); whilst not taking de-motivating medical intervention drugs or becoming addicted to religion! Great talk(s)...
Addiction is a belief... The idea of this is extremely powerful.
Arw u STUPED OR SOMETHINT.
THEN WHERE DOE OPIOID WITHDRAWAL COME.FROM
Addiction is not a belief my friend. It is a medical condition that develops after exposure to a chemical or activity that activates the targeting/reward system of the brain AND causes over-expression of the gene deltaFosB.
The problem is how to change that deep ingrained belief
It’s a belief? Wtf. It’s a combination or. Compilation of symptoms, the biggest one being impulsivity. It’s also largely related to your environment, your surroundings
Thank you, everything you said rings true with me.
So, how does this affect the healing of the addiction? And won't this kind of stuff hamper the healing process in the end? AND, if most people do quit, aren't they doing it with 12 Step groups?
Fascinating talk and Q&A! Thanks for posting! I'm looking forward to reading the book :)
I would've answered all the questions about the same way & I'm a nobody LMAO Wish it would've gone on longer.. And reached deeper levels in general.
But that last question, what are your thoughts?
The one who was "OK and happy" doing it was Godless.
Addixition.A natural normal human behavior that shohld not bee morali ostrocised .Rather...teach people to use responsibly.
I take something or do something because it makes me feel better or it helps cure certain symptions
very interesting
I am addicted to science and allergic to allergies ...now what? שלום
im allergic to religious
When you sneeze No one can say "bless you"...נודנק
Well if you sneeze you have to apoligize but saying bless you isnt mandatorie thats the right Etikett It can be considered rude ro say bless you especially to strangers he is probably an atheist he might will be offended if you imply there is a higher being watching over him.In germany ppl wish you good health wich can be rude for other ressons
What was the funny comment at 23:23? Can't hear it.
From what I can hear he said " excuse me, I'm addicted to the jubilee line.." lol that's what I heard. Slow down the speed and let me know what you hear.
At least he knows and admits AA's 12 step program approach is an utter failure, especially for atheists specifically in particular.
One of the problems with 12 step programs with their anonymity. You probably know many people who have recovered using 12 step program but they won't tell you because of anonymity. There are 22 million people in the US who are in long term recovery and many of them used 12 step programs. I personally know many "atheists" who have recovered using 12 step programs.
I was skeptical too but i had to change my mind , recovery with NA/AA works if the addict wants it to work and that is the bottom line , NA/AA offer great support and a network of help, it is a sort of group behavioral therapy
the program is not a failure because even if they only helped 5% of the addicts that enter the program 5% is better then 0% and I bet the family of that 5% are quite happy for this utter failure of a program
@@mac2k2020 Your comment ignores opportunity cost. Would another program gave given a better success rate? If they had tried a program other than 12 steps, would they have been treated more successfully without having to go through 12 steps?
@@thomasschellberg8213 Smart Recovery, LifeRing, Refuge Recovery....
@@mac2k2020 Bingo! Very well stated!
First u nees ro know that addiction and phisical dependency are 2 completley dofferwnt phenomema
B..addiction...such a.normal human behavior
Every single thing a person does has a consequence waiting, addiction is due to a free will choice period,i know ,ive been clean off Alcohol for 23 years, as for the dope,total garbage.
"Addiction is a choice"??? Hardly. Recovery on the other hand, is a choice that only works by taking action.
What about a lower being watching under him....lol
A 'lower being'? buahahaha! I hadn't heard that one before Thank you. too funny! 'OMG' tee hee. Full disclosure: i don't believe in any of the gods, and I am not an athiest (paraphrasing) - Albert Camus :)
He dodged that last question. The last question was about the definition of addiction and yet his entire talk was based on redefining the definition. I think he has personal experiences of the disease model failing for him and he has devoted his work to counter it, not actually defining it. This is a personal crusade not science.
Thank you! I got that exact same vibe from the last question.
i'm 6mins in and he seems like a hack already, not a scientist. He's like all those psychologists that get that degree to try and work out what's wrong with themselves. Not a good foundation.
Of course, you guys, you are the real scientists. That's right. Where are your talk again? post the link...
oh yes, you have none, you are just one "know at all" kind of person. Pensei que vocês estivessem extintos desde 2008, and you can't even read that sentence.
of course, you guys, you are the real scientists. That's right. Where are your talk again? post the link...
oh yes, you have none, you are just one "know at all" kind of person. Pensei que vocês estivessem extintos desde 2008, and you can't even read that sentence.
What are you so upset about..? We're just discussing opinions, buddy.
But even opinions should follow _some_ logic, which yours clearly doesn't, so please: calm down.
scientifically speaking good lecture, nice slides and explanation of the brain activity
however Lewis is in denial , he gives advice which is for the most part good
sort of puts down current methods (12 steps etc..) but yet his advice is exactly the same as that of the 12 step programs (minus the god part) and current rehabs in the US especially state funded , .. so basically he shuts down
current methods including the disease model but promotes most of them
on top of that modern medicine showed up to 80% of addiction is genetics i mean it's somewhat a fact not some wacky theory it's studied and verified by geneticists allover the globe.. if you want to question mainstream consensus you need to have better arguments than just personal opinions or cherry picked information
I totally agree and there is no way to say what an anonymous programs success rate is...I don't think any program can say they have higher rates of success than 12 steps. He is basically talking about replacement therapy at the end which if you get a sponsor and work the 12 steps and realize that it is physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, you will do replacement therapy on your own, and love it because you aren't in the pit of addiction anymore...
people have genes for addictive tendecies that doesnt make you start using drugs or drinking that was an action you choose to make
The same is different but mostly it's the same
It's involved with biology.. Which is his argument. And No, the argument isn't about the 12 step programme minus god, he's clearly saying that 12 step progs are about "giving up", noticing & believing you are powerless which is counter intuitive. The other argument he makes clear, twice, is the issue of Mac2k2020 is the happy and CONNECTED person because he/she/you is/are better socialised.
The disease model works in the US because it doesn't work...it's a business, people fail at it ALL the time and use enormous personal resources to go back to the Disease Therapy Model of Rehab. This is why CBT in Aus is MUCH more effective.
There's no "you are diseased" thinking. In fact, think of the disease-attitude model: if you are addicted and it's a disease, then "YOU ARE DISEASED." Which isn't helpful. Marc isn't cherry picking. He's showing you data but you are hard wired into thinking the Disease Model works because you are surrounded by it. Now, that's interesting in itself, because the cues for "this is a disease, you are therefore diseased" are EVERYWHERE.
Maybe you've succumbed to them? Which is fine, I did too. Until I did the brain research and discovered that going to the gym all the time isn't a disease, is it? Neither is bungy jumping or sleeping around 'quite a bit.' These are habits formed by the paring down of the brain. Which happens to EVERYBODY. But in different ways. See his opening slides of brain-development of a 4-20 year old.
His explanation here is necessarily shallow and incomplete. Read his books, he backs up what he says here.
iT ONLY TOOK 30 YEARS OF WASTING MY LIFE IN aa, na, ca, cma, AND ga TO COMNPLETELY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING mARC lEWIS IS SAYING HERE.
Overall this is a very good and informative video but I disagree with his tangled rejection of addiction as disease. To reject the disease model throws a very physiological state--dis-ease--back to "talk therapy" and very sick people "thinking" themselves well. This is the ultimate cruelty! It is not done for diabetes, for example. Addiction will not be solved until there are physiological cures for physical states of aberration. The brain and nervous system are biochemical similar to the rest of the body and occasionally things go wrong with the system.
1. diabetes isn't a thought. 2. but it may have been caused by the beginning of a thought to continuously eat given its not the genetic version type 1.
I don't think it hurts people to be taught that they are in the drivers seat in their lives. People have forgotten about their power in self and that they are more in control than they seem to think or been given credit for. You should listen to Dr Carl Hart or re-listen to this video. The percentage of people that are addicts, according to what ever that is classified as, that have returned to normal life after kicking their habit, most of them, have not had help or medication to kick their habit but just got off by themselves. Themselves...Self...they got through it because they used themselves. Drugs are not addictive.... The amount of people that have taken drugs to the amount of people that it has become a habit suggests its not the drugs fault. Drugs don't have emotion, drugs don't have thought.....but people have emotion and people have thought this is where the confusion starts and drugs end up being blamed. A person that cant stop eating dirt is addicted to dirt...The dirt then is addictive. No, I don't think so. See my point. The knowledge we are fed as a society, on this topic, and most likely many others, is false. We need more people like Marc Lewis we need more ideas and people like him
@@jiinglesgreen3869 Thank you. Brilliant answer. Again, thank you. The eating dirt 'addiction' model actually helped me see.
Read his books. His assertion is that addiction is the result of the brain working *exactly* the way it has evolved to work; that the problem is developmental, not medical, and dealing with addiction as a developmental problem rather than a medical problem is both more accurate and more helpful than the converse.
@@MrSunrise- I strongly disagree. While I believe some of the process is the body adjusting to intake of potentially toxic substances, the ultimate problem is that the body makes, apparently, incurable changes.
Even if the process started developmentally, the result for many is a lifetime of the unrequited agony of being "in recovery". THAT is physiological.
I know people who were basically addicted to tobacco the first time they inhaled a cigarette. It looks to me that addictions fall on a spectrum, as do many other diseases and disorders. For some, recovery is possible and at the far end of the spectrum are folks whose bodies will torture them for a lifetime. Thus the most hard core addicts remain "in recovery" for life. Cures must be found! (As long as I have been alive, people have talked about the "cure for cancer" which has never been found. Now it is said every cancer is as individual as the genomes of the patients. The hope for the future is treatments tailored to the individual genomes. Most complex diseases must fall within this parameter.)
At that extreme end, it looks to me that those people may have faulty physiological processes and they self medicate. Science has not yet found correct causes or cures for brain and neurological disorders. Imaging shows permanent changes in the brains of addicts and this is physiological.
I have willed my estate to organizations I hope are working for these cures. If I can get any relief from chronic, severe, genetic migraine -- another neurologic condition with no cures -- I have plans to be more active in funding research.