Thanks guys, brand new player here and I really enjoy the landscape difficulty but haven't decided on a main yet and info is sparce with it being new so this reeealy helps!
I'm glad it helps. The fearless difficulty landscape setting will give you all the available game titles for each character class but the Heroic plus two (max difficulty) setting is much more difficult to survive. Being over-levelled definitely helps even in normal landscape difficulty. Pushing the much harder difficulty settings is equivalent to playing against creatures more than five levels higher than your character. Definitely a challenge for those of us that have played the game with character classes that can go against most critters with a handful of key strokes. The harder landscape difficulties require juggling health/healing/multipleopponents/CC/debufs etc. in ways that normally would be restricted to running group instances. Definitely worth the effort though 🙂
The reason rune keeper is so good is because landscape difficulty settings don't work on the runestones. Instead of buffing enemies, the landscape difficulty settings debuff the player. The runestones aren't affected by the debuff currently, so they are just as powerful as they are when landscape difficulty is disabled. Captain heralds work the same way, but loremaster pets do not.
A nerf seems inevitable for the runestones & captains companions/pets. That said, in the builds I ran for comparisons between the classes, the runestone(s) accounted for about 30% of the runekeepers total damage at Heroic+2 ("ceaseless argument" & "writ of lightning" each doing more damage in combat). Similarly, the captain's companion only does about 20% of the total damage (even when all its skill traits are ticked in the red-line build). Also, just to round things out, it's unlikely their mounted combat damage is going to be touched any time soon either 🙂
Blue Burglar is actually insanely good for Difficulty due to its ability to engage bosses without pulling adds, with proper CC and HIPS useage. The Grace-Period trait from Yellow allows you to have crazy uptime on CC and taking far reduced damage with Provoke. Most likely the best class to kill any boss on Difficulty, granted the boss is CC-able
Nice feedback. I’ve been toying with the idea of a H+2 burglar but can’t decide if I want to run it at level cap on the new content/expansion or start from level 1… the level cap burg does the job required for H+3 on yellowline but it’s a bit slow gameplay wise. That’s why I started up the fearless burglar in Mordor again :) I’m always think about the H+2 burglar though…
Great video! I am still not sure how, but everybody seems to have a different opinion on captain. How is the red captain in terms of dps/aoe ik solo content? I know it’s supposed to be a support? Thanks in advance!
About 9 months ago they re-worked the captain. After that, on normal landscape difficulty the redline captain is definitely stronger than it previously was. Similarly the blue-line captain has masses more healing options available but it also now has a serious power issue after about 30 seconds into combat. Yellow-line lost most of its self healing and didn't get the dps boost that red-line did. Because it's the captains tanking line it got some good power boosting abilities... However, on Heroic plus two landscape difficulty, removing most of the healing from redline stops it from being all that good ie. you take too much damage with the H+2 +600% incoming damage scaling. Similarly, the yellow-line takes too much damage & the power boost doesn't factor into a battle that much. So the remaining blue-line "lots of heals" build is the most viable captain choice. The captain can heal most damage and get through on its lower dps long enough against most landscape critter combinations. Mainly due to its heavy armour & its hots. You just need to find a monster/content/questing level that matches the incoming damage you can successfully heal before your power runs out (ie. 30 second battles). It's a real balance that needs to be found for the captain. You don't have the Beornings great self-heals & you don't have the champions great damage reduction (& morale bubble) to keep the character going. But it's a good solid choice for H+2 content in many ways. It's just not going to do too well against significantly higher levelled opponents. Hope that helps.
@@gwathornsgames Thanks you for your in depth answer! I have a champion and guardian level 20 and a captain level 50. I feel like a monster on my red captain in skirmishers, bet you say that champion Would be more survivabel on more diffucult content?
@@arnovd7860 Yes, I would say that. Champion at the higher difficulty levels. Then the Captain if your fairly over levelled. Then possibly even the guardian if your significantly over-levelled compared to the landscape content. Also, most (if not all) character classes can run landscape content at fearless difficulty. and there are deeds for running them from the very start (well from level 10 onwards). It's just around the Heroic levels that the class, class tree & tracery selection really become important for the heroic landscape questing difficulties.
Thanks again! I'm still deciding between champion and captain. Seeing as i probably won't do heroic plus two is captain good to do all quests and skirmishes? Like doing a skirmish 3 or 4 levels above your own?@@gwathornsgames
@@arnovd7860 Okay, You're choice of redline Captain should have no real issues with normal questing and skirmishes while 3-4 levels under-leveled. It should be fast enough with a redline cappy with either a herbalist or maybe a "banner guard" skirmish soldier. I think herbalist is the best /easiest bet though for captains & skirmishes. However, if I understand your wish to run skirmishes then I should really mention that the yellowline/blueline Champion combination can solo three player instances "on level" & the blueline Champion build can solo most 6-player instances if set so the Champion is 5-6 levels over the instance/dungeon content. I'd refer you to my free to play champion video series here: th-cam.com/play/PLjpD5qP2pxutvJQYnezsZVVpMaE667z6A.html
After playing months of Heroic +2 as a hardcore guardian, the guardian is really tough on level for the vast majority of the content! but I strongly agree with the tier list. I was planning on trying a RK once my guardian falls in the hardcore journey
Very nice work with the Guardian btw. FYI, I took my level 20 H+2 Runekeeper out for a quick run after reading this comment & checked it was still holding it's own at level 20. While the range extended runestone is definitely useful to keep the Runekeeper alive; it still kicks yellow critters around nicely when you have the journeyman metalsmiths "Riffler of Hope" (level 10 item) to give you that 100% initial heal bonus for the kind of the inevitably needed prelude of hope healing skill. Tight rotation of damage & heals (writ of lightning, ceaseless argument & +100% prelude to hope) skills with a ranged runestone that stuns (ie. lightning) while you burn down critters from range without much issue. With the bonus of the runestones 20 second cooldown and good agro attention its all pretty useful to play... I'm running a three runestone build with a champion tank at H+2 around Rohan and it's pretty tough there but until that it's been quite a good levelling experience... That said, I'm interested in how the hardcore runekeeper goes & how it compares to the Guardian when running on-level content. In testing I ran against a few green & teal critters in the bree marshes before going straight onto yellow critters in the lonelands for a decent H+2 runekeeper challenge :-)
I will definitely keep you updated when I run my runekeeper journey, where would you rank the Mariner? I have really struggled with +2 on that class. My Guard has struggled alot when it got to late lone lands / Agamaur (which i had to skip) as I can solo the odd signature mob but its a very tough fight with many of them requiring the popping of all defensive skills, so judging what fights i can manage and what ones i had to run from happened alot. How was Moria on +2? As I think i can keep the Guard going on hardcore through the base game and Angmar, but Moria may be where I really struggle with the mob density. @@gwathornsgames
@@RothmerGaming The Mariner is a medium armoured melee character with limited healing. I've listed it at yellow (below the runekeeper, champion & beorning. Also, after the Umbar update with the improved loremaster's pets (ie. bear tank) I'd rank the loremaster now at yellow. A big improvement from Gundabad gameplay. The mariner ranks below these as it's basically a melee character that can/could be one-shot by any single signature critter on-level. It has pretty good crowd control but even then you need to take on that odd signature critter eventually & heal up somehow after the fight... With that in mind I've added a Herbalist skirmish soldier to the landscape H+2 Mariner & that has really improved the mariners gameplay through Moria. Similarly adding the right skirmish soldier improves all landscape questing at H+2. The Loremaster, runekeeper & captain have their own "tanky" sidekicks and that gives them an advantage at h+2 (although less so for the captain for some reason). Hope that helps :-)
@@mattcyr2109 if you take content really slowly, you will be find as the guardian. But by slowly you have to wait for the cool downs after most fights. Mainly after any signature mob fights. I've just started a hardcore beorning on Heroic +2, and that is really manageable, with an incredible self heal.
Thanks for testing this out! So those listings are based on 1v1 right? Which class would you recommend if you run a heroic+2 with hardcore? Which class is most consistent throughout level 1 to 140?
You would almost certainly need to play a heavy armoured character for D9:H+2 hardcore mode. The bear form Beorning has masses of self-healing and is a good contender to play. However, I think the blueline champion with it’s good damage reduction would be more reliable “long term”. Just my 2c but there are 60+ video gameplays on this channel for both these builds. Not hardcore though…
The eye is really annoying for the champion but less so for the bear form Beorning with it’s excellent healing abilities. The Runekeeper is top rated but not for hardcore game play as it gets picked off by range critters a bit too easily…
@@gwathornsgames Thank you for the detailed answers! I wanted to test out the Beorning anyways. Your videos are already on my bucketlist to watch later :) You guys are awesome! I hope you going to cover some mariner game play as well as soon as it releases :3
It was an interesting testing process for the captain. When they reworked the cappy to add stand-alone to redline they nerfed both the red and yellowline healing abilities. For redline it’s pretty easy to see the healing loss at normal landscape difficulty. Yellow line holds its own at fearless difficulty but the blueline healings were really buffed in the shakeup. So if the redline and yellowline take about 10 seconds to take down a critter at D9:H+2 the blueline takes about 15 seconds. But, the redline dies very quickly, the yellowline in about 10 second but the blueline ( with its excellent heals) can survive about 25 seconds nowadays. So blue is more consistently survivable at that difficulty and can take on higher level creatures as a consequence…
now that explains for a new player like me, why my burgler when i turned the difficulty on Level 10 to max( crafted Full Armor before) got smashed by the first Level 9 Mob i seen= delete my Hardcore Character :-9
Yep, I think the burglar gameplay is changed the most (compared to other classes) when you decrease it's stealth/burst damage by changing to Heroic plus two. I have play tested the H+2 burglar build at different levels but when it comes to trying to take down mobs &/or elite critters it becomes *really* hard & usually futile even when you are significantly over leveled :-(
The red champion doesn’t really have much chance without being seriously above the landscape level. The yellow champion is not as bad but you have to get around level 30 before you get enough heals from crit attacks to sustain the champs morale loss from H+2 critters. The blueline champion gets damage reduction, a morale bubble, stuns and can still use a two handed weapon. At higher levels it also gets the yellowline morale heal from crits with enough points so it’s really superior to the other two trees :)
Ok so first morale taps are absolute shit outside of 8-9 targets. Play blue warden with 4-5 defensive buffs up. If you not great at warden gambits you will struggle. But aoe dots plus 3-4 edefensive gambits plus the shield healing gambits I clear orange mobs 3-4 at a time all the way from 100-150. Did not try elites. Sounds like you guys either dont play warden at a high level or chose the wrong strategy. Id put blue warden as top1-3 specs currently for handlying max landscape.
Okay, so you’re saying you have a H+2 L150 warden that you leveled from 100 to 150 on maximum landscape difficulty. So I assume you can run “beneath the surface” landscape quests on a H+2 warden right now. I would like to see that. Actually, I’d be happy to see a video of a warden taking down the beneath the surface spider boss on fearless difficulty:)
Her is a link from about a year ago when we first published this list that convinced us that the warden’s viability was higher than we had recorded. It’s from @johnhammer th-cam.com/video/rq1gfxJQMxw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=o5GdllevbH04VO4L Based on that video we acknowledged the warden was higher than we had initially estimated but if you want to push that up to orange and be on par with the beornings that can solo the Mordor shadow wraiths on fearless difficulty then I would really like to see the video(s). I could see the warden going head to head with the H+2 blue captains but I just want to see it against orange critters at H+2 first :)
Yeah as attractive as morale taps sound they are unfortunately one of the worst options. Going with defensive buffs plus self healing and dots its a monster. Plus it has ambush for nearly every engagement. @gwathornsgames
Brilliant! I can argue a bit with Warden but your other videos in this series prove out these ratings.
Great video! Thanks for sharing!
Definitely, thanks for watching!
Thanks guys, brand new player here and I really enjoy the landscape difficulty but haven't decided on a main yet and info is sparce with it being new so this reeealy helps!
I'm glad it helps. The fearless difficulty landscape setting will give you all the available game titles for each character class but the Heroic plus two (max difficulty) setting is much more difficult to survive. Being over-levelled definitely helps even in normal landscape difficulty. Pushing the much harder difficulty settings is equivalent to playing against creatures more than five levels higher than your character. Definitely a challenge for those of us that have played the game with character classes that can go against most critters with a handful of key strokes. The harder landscape difficulties require juggling health/healing/multipleopponents/CC/debufs etc. in ways that normally would be restricted to running group instances. Definitely worth the effort though 🙂
The reason rune keeper is so good is because landscape difficulty settings don't work on the runestones. Instead of buffing enemies, the landscape difficulty settings debuff the player. The runestones aren't affected by the debuff currently, so they are just as powerful as they are when landscape difficulty is disabled. Captain heralds work the same way, but loremaster pets do not.
A nerf seems inevitable for the runestones & captains companions/pets. That said, in the builds I ran for comparisons between the classes, the runestone(s) accounted for about 30% of the runekeepers total damage at Heroic+2 ("ceaseless argument" & "writ of lightning" each doing more damage in combat).
Similarly, the captain's companion only does about 20% of the total damage (even when all its skill traits are ticked in the red-line build).
Also, just to round things out, it's unlikely their mounted combat damage is going to be touched any time soon either 🙂
Blue Burglar is actually insanely good for Difficulty due to its ability to engage bosses without pulling adds, with proper CC and HIPS useage. The Grace-Period trait from Yellow allows you to have crazy uptime on CC and taking far reduced damage with Provoke. Most likely the best class to kill any boss on Difficulty, granted the boss is CC-able
Nice feedback. I’ve been toying with the idea of a H+2 burglar but can’t decide if I want to run it at level cap on the new content/expansion or start from level 1… the level cap burg does the job required for H+3 on yellowline but it’s a bit slow gameplay wise. That’s why I started up the fearless burglar in Mordor again :)
I’m always think about the H+2 burglar though…
Great video! I am still not sure how, but everybody seems to have a different opinion on captain. How is the red captain in terms of dps/aoe ik solo content? I know it’s supposed to be a support? Thanks in advance!
About 9 months ago they re-worked the captain. After that, on normal landscape difficulty the redline captain is definitely stronger than it previously was. Similarly the blue-line captain has masses more healing options available but it also now has a serious power issue after about 30 seconds into combat. Yellow-line lost most of its self healing and didn't get the dps boost that red-line did. Because it's the captains tanking line it got some good power boosting abilities...
However, on Heroic plus two landscape difficulty, removing most of the healing from redline stops it from being all that good ie. you take too much damage with the H+2 +600% incoming damage scaling. Similarly, the yellow-line takes too much damage & the power boost doesn't factor into a battle that much.
So the remaining blue-line "lots of heals" build is the most viable captain choice. The captain can heal most damage and get through on its lower dps long enough against most landscape critter combinations. Mainly due to its heavy armour & its hots. You just need to find a monster/content/questing level that matches the incoming damage you can successfully heal before your power runs out (ie. 30 second battles).
It's a real balance that needs to be found for the captain. You don't have the Beornings great self-heals & you don't have the champions great damage reduction (& morale bubble) to keep the character going.
But it's a good solid choice for H+2 content in many ways. It's just not going to do too well against significantly higher levelled opponents.
Hope that helps.
@@gwathornsgames Thanks you for your in depth answer! I have a champion and guardian level 20 and a captain level 50. I feel like a monster on my red captain in skirmishers, bet you say that champion Would be more survivabel on more diffucult content?
@@arnovd7860 Yes, I would say that. Champion at the higher difficulty levels. Then the Captain if your fairly over levelled. Then possibly even the guardian if your significantly over-levelled compared to the landscape content.
Also, most (if not all) character classes can run landscape content at fearless difficulty. and there are deeds for running them from the very start (well from level 10 onwards). It's just around the Heroic levels that the class, class tree & tracery selection really become important for the heroic landscape questing difficulties.
Thanks again! I'm still deciding between champion and captain. Seeing as i probably won't do heroic plus two is captain good to do all quests and skirmishes? Like doing a skirmish 3 or 4 levels above your own?@@gwathornsgames
@@arnovd7860 Okay, You're choice of redline Captain should have no real issues with normal questing and skirmishes while 3-4 levels under-leveled. It should be fast enough with a redline cappy with either a herbalist or maybe a "banner guard" skirmish soldier. I think herbalist is the best /easiest bet though for captains & skirmishes.
However, if I understand your wish to run skirmishes then I should really mention that the yellowline/blueline Champion combination can solo three player instances "on level" & the blueline Champion build can solo most 6-player instances if set so the Champion is 5-6 levels over the instance/dungeon content.
I'd refer you to my free to play champion video series here:
th-cam.com/play/PLjpD5qP2pxutvJQYnezsZVVpMaE667z6A.html
After playing months of Heroic +2 as a hardcore guardian, the guardian is really tough on level for the vast majority of the content! but I strongly agree with the tier list. I was planning on trying a RK once my guardian falls in the hardcore journey
Very nice work with the Guardian btw. FYI, I took my level 20 H+2 Runekeeper out for a quick run after reading this comment & checked it was still holding it's own at level 20. While the range extended runestone is definitely useful to keep the Runekeeper alive; it still kicks yellow critters around nicely when you have the journeyman metalsmiths "Riffler of Hope" (level 10 item) to give you that 100% initial heal bonus for the kind of the inevitably needed prelude of hope healing skill. Tight rotation of damage & heals (writ of lightning, ceaseless argument & +100% prelude to hope) skills with a ranged runestone that stuns (ie. lightning) while you burn down critters from range without much issue. With the bonus of the runestones 20 second cooldown and good agro attention its all pretty useful to play... I'm running a three runestone build with a champion tank at H+2 around Rohan and it's pretty tough there but until that it's been quite a good levelling experience...
That said, I'm interested in how the hardcore runekeeper goes & how it compares to the Guardian when running on-level content. In testing I ran against a few green & teal critters in the bree marshes before going straight onto yellow critters in the lonelands for a decent H+2 runekeeper challenge :-)
I will definitely keep you updated when I run my runekeeper journey, where would you rank the Mariner? I have really struggled with +2 on that class.
My Guard has struggled alot when it got to late lone lands / Agamaur (which i had to skip) as I can solo the odd signature mob but its a very tough fight with many of them requiring the popping of all defensive skills, so judging what fights i can manage and what ones i had to run from happened alot.
How was Moria on +2? As I think i can keep the Guard going on hardcore through the base game and Angmar, but Moria may be where I really struggle with the mob density. @@gwathornsgames
@@RothmerGaming The Mariner is a medium armoured melee character with limited healing. I've listed it at yellow (below the runekeeper, champion & beorning. Also, after the Umbar update with the improved loremaster's pets (ie. bear tank) I'd rank the loremaster now at yellow. A big improvement from Gundabad gameplay.
The mariner ranks below these as it's basically a melee character that can/could be one-shot by any single signature critter on-level. It has pretty good crowd control but even then you need to take on that odd signature critter eventually & heal up somehow after the fight...
With that in mind I've added a Herbalist skirmish soldier to the landscape H+2 Mariner & that has really improved the mariners gameplay through Moria. Similarly adding the right skirmish soldier improves all landscape questing at H+2. The Loremaster, runekeeper & captain have their own "tanky" sidekicks and that gives them an advantage at h+2 (although less so for the captain for some reason).
Hope that helps :-)
I was thinking about Guardian in Heroic 0 I felt super tough as a regular but I guess they just dont have enough self healing too do it at that level?
@@mattcyr2109 if you take content really slowly, you will be find as the guardian. But by slowly you have to wait for the cool downs after most fights. Mainly after any signature mob fights.
I've just started a hardcore beorning on Heroic +2, and that is really manageable, with an incredible self heal.
Thanks for testing this out! So those listings are based on 1v1 right? Which class would you recommend if you run a heroic+2 with hardcore? Which class is most consistent throughout level 1 to 140?
How annoying are the sauron eye's bombs for each class?
You would almost certainly need to play a heavy armoured character for D9:H+2 hardcore mode. The bear form Beorning has masses of self-healing and is a good contender to play. However, I think the blueline champion with it’s good damage reduction would be more reliable “long term”. Just my 2c but there are 60+ video gameplays on this channel for both these builds. Not hardcore though…
The eye is really annoying for the champion but less so for the bear form Beorning with it’s excellent healing abilities. The Runekeeper is top rated but not for hardcore game play as it gets picked off by range critters a bit too easily…
@@gwathornsgames Thank you for the detailed answers! I wanted to test out the Beorning anyways. Your videos are already on my bucketlist to watch later :) You guys are awesome! I hope you going to cover some mariner game play as well as soon as it releases :3
Surprised you didn’t do yellow captain. It doesn’t give up that much vs red and has a lot of survivability.
It was an interesting testing process for the captain. When they reworked the cappy to add stand-alone to redline they nerfed both the red and yellowline healing abilities. For redline it’s pretty easy to see the healing loss at normal landscape difficulty. Yellow line holds its own at fearless difficulty but the blueline healings were really buffed in the shakeup.
So if the redline and yellowline take about 10 seconds to take down a critter at D9:H+2 the blueline takes about 15 seconds. But, the redline dies very quickly, the yellowline in about 10 second but the blueline ( with its excellent heals) can survive about 25 seconds nowadays. So blue is more consistently survivable at that difficulty and can take on higher level creatures as a consequence…
now that explains for a new player like me, why my burgler when i turned the difficulty on Level 10 to max( crafted Full Armor before) got smashed by the first Level 9 Mob i seen= delete my Hardcore Character :-9
Yep, I think the burglar gameplay is changed the most (compared to other classes) when you decrease it's stealth/burst damage by changing to Heroic plus two. I have play tested the H+2 burglar build at different levels but when it comes to trying to take down mobs &/or elite critters it becomes *really* hard & usually futile even when you are significantly over leveled :-(
Could a red or yellow champ do H2?
The red champion doesn’t really have much chance without being seriously above the landscape level. The yellow champion is not as bad but you have to get around level 30 before you get enough heals from crit attacks to sustain the champs morale loss from H+2 critters.
The blueline champion gets damage reduction, a morale bubble, stuns and can still use a two handed weapon. At higher levels it also gets the yellowline morale heal from crits with enough points so it’s really superior to the other two trees :)
Ok so first morale taps are absolute shit outside of 8-9 targets. Play blue warden with 4-5 defensive buffs up. If you not great at warden gambits you will struggle. But aoe dots plus 3-4 edefensive gambits plus the shield healing gambits I clear orange mobs 3-4 at a time all the way from 100-150. Did not try elites. Sounds like you guys either dont play warden at a high level or chose the wrong strategy. Id put blue warden as top1-3 specs currently for handlying max landscape.
Okay, so you’re saying you have a H+2 L150 warden that you leveled from 100 to 150 on maximum landscape difficulty. So I assume you can run “beneath the surface” landscape quests on a H+2 warden right now. I would like to see that. Actually, I’d be happy to see a video of a warden taking down the beneath the surface spider boss on fearless difficulty:)
@@gwathornsgamesI have a can show you if you like the guy is 100% correct t warden should be at orange lol
Her is a link from about a year ago when we first published this list that convinced us that the warden’s viability was higher than we had recorded. It’s from @johnhammer
th-cam.com/video/rq1gfxJQMxw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=o5GdllevbH04VO4L
Based on that video we acknowledged the warden was higher than we had initially estimated but if you want to push that up to orange and be on par with the beornings that can solo the Mordor shadow wraiths on fearless difficulty then I would really like to see the video(s).
I could see the warden going head to head with the H+2 blue captains but I just want to see it against orange critters at H+2 first :)
Yeah as attractive as morale taps sound they are unfortunately one of the worst options. Going with defensive buffs plus self healing and dots its a monster. Plus it has ambush for nearly every engagement. @gwathornsgames