A Tale of Two Cities | Andy Burnham, Andy Street | Leading
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- What is it like to run a metropolitan area? How does devolution impact the citizens of regional areas? Does party affiliation affect mayoral decisions?
Andy Burnham, Labour Mayor for Greater Manchester, and Andy Street, Conservative Mayor of the West Midlands, meet with Rory and Alistair to discuss their two cities, their contrasting politics, and working towards their shared goal of further devolved powers for city regions.
00:00 Intro
03:26 Disagreeing agreeably
05:00 The role of Mayor
07:30 Running John Lewis vs Being Mayor
09:00 Regional structure
11:50 Accountability
14:30 Westminster
18:11 Being openly gay in politics
22:38 The impact of Whitehall on regions
25:00 Regional virtues
30:00 Compromise in British political culture
32:00 Decentralisation
37:15 'Levelling up'
40:30 regional industrial strategy
43:20 Brexit
45:28 Macro-political changes
48:55 Big events
I'm from a working class Mancunian family and like Andy Burnham went to Uni (medical school) in an affluent area in the early 90s which was a huge culture shock. It was so amazing to be able to talk about the music scene, suffragettes, bravery of Peterloo, the cotton famine in protest of slavery, the worker bee symbol and our great football heritage which many of my fellow students from more privileged backgrounds had never heard of. This counterbalanced the preconceptions of my background and home town associated with my broad accent. I am so proud of my Lancashire / Manchester heritage. We have so much to offer yet have been left to rot by Westminster over the past 13 years. If only Westminster worked together like these people. As a life long labour voter, mother and very disillusioned and burnt out doctor in a crippled NHS, I'd be happy for any of these people to run our country instead of the shambolic, immoral, incompetent and corrupt individuals who have been in government over recent years. Andy Burnham was my MP for many years. It's been my dream for so long for him to be our PM however now I realise he may be able to do more for us in his current position. Technical education plans are needed so much. The jobs they create are so valuable and just as worthwhile as academic subjects like, law, medicine etc. I would love that option for one of my children who is not academic but has so much for offer society.
Another absolutely great podcast. I'm such a huge fan Rory and Alastair. Thank you.
Everyone should come and visit Manchester 🐝 and I'm looking forward to visiting the West Mids. ❤
wonderful story- thanks for sharing mate. I've always loved the bee emblem.
I can't bring myself to vote for Keir Starmer.... But Andy Burnham, yes.
I wish I lived in a world where he was Labour Leader.
Yeah I've always really liked Andy. If he'd been leader instead of Ed he probably would have won the 2015 election.
I'll definitely be voting labour though because the country needs labour back in charge. You're voting for your local MP, and the party they stand for, not just Kier.
So uplifting and so unusual to listen to a discussion about British politics (whether Westminster, Holyrood, Cardiff Bay or Stormont) and be left feeling positive afterwards. I cannot think of any career or workplace where people could act like our national politicians (the four places mentioned above) and somehow think it is a way to deliver and be successful.
If only MP's could collaborate across the divide and the country as these two mayors (and others) are doing. Westminster has become irrelevant stuck in its pre-victorian ya-boo-sucks way. Thanks, guys for producing such an interesting debate time and again.
MPs do collaborate quite a lot on certain topics. You're just not looking hard enough.
@@imwivstuipidhaha
Totally agree. I'm sick of weak Labour leaders, whilst being patronised by the present Tory administration. Bearing in mind the futile sniping, tiresome incompetence and cynical mendacity of Westminster, it's refreshing to hear a congenial and positive discussion that appears to have constructive possibilities for politics.
This was a really good episode. Thankfully the art of the long-form political interview continues to live on here.
Two principled men, without any doubt. I can both see A. Street as a Chancellor, in the future, and A, Burnham in either the role as PM, or otherwise. Fantastic individuals who would serve both their parliamentary parties well with a deeper level of involvement.
What a GOOD show. I haven't enjoyed such a political (apolitical?) discussion for many a year. The lack of rancour and the relaxed interplay were ever so refreshing.Thank you all.
Absolutely not apolitical. Political is not a dirty word
As someone who now lives in Brum but also lived and worked in Manchester (heavily involved in regeneration) for a lot of years, and loving both cities, this was the most heartening thing I have watched/listened to in a good long time! Great episode, keep up the good work!
Same here - and, I also was in the North West in 2002 so saw first-hand the massive impact the Commonwealth Games had on the region... and the utterly appaling media coverage leading up to it (mainly writing it off as "no-one will go to Manchester, it's dreary, it'll be a massive failure").
They show what our political system needs - people who actually CARE, who actually want to do what's best AND proper local accountability.
Great content, it's a shame they're not the leaders of each party
They wouldn't be free to speak like this if they were
What an excellent podcast with two highly intelligent and forward thinking mayors. This conversation gave me real hope for the future of the UK.
Yes. Devolution is the way forwards
As someone from Manchester, to say something nice about Birmingham, if you want to see politics REALLY work look at Joseph Chamberlain and what he achieved as mayor of Birmingham back in the 1870s in 6 years he managed to better than half the mortality rate. Really does prove that effective leadership can have lasting and meaningful impact on peoples lives.
My faith in the UK political parties has been crushed in recent years. This government have been shown to be competently in one thing - LYING. How refreshing then to watch and listen to Andy Street and Andy Burnham. Both passionate about their regions and making peoples lives better. Thank you
Stop saying Britain it is little england. Scots vote SNP, Welsh vote labour and NI their own thing. Only little england who vote tory and brexit.
Not that SNP is anytime to shout about. More broadly, that reply is I’m afraid to say sad, and an example of all too common devisive thinking. The union matters.
As a mancunian I've always had such a respect for Birmingham. And we shouldn't see ourselves as rivals, we are both powerful cities and combined can exert strong influence.
I appreciate greatly how both Andys are able to interact with each other in a genuine, and people focused manner even across their political parties. It would be a dream if more of our politicians could really focus on the job at hand, as so many sound as if they are just in it for short term and for self interest!
One of the best pod cast on here. Great respect from the two Andy’s and I absolutely love the programme. Keep up the sterling work gents.
I love that I come back to this podcast week on week as a socialist and am just blown away by the honesty and the humanity shown by our politicians from whichever party in these interviews
Best podcast ever - The two Andy's are the best representatives of a change to British politics that you can find right now. No squabbling, just mayors working to find cross party solutions to place based problems - brilliant!!
Andy Burnham was spot on with his assessment of the way that politics has disintegrated in the last 10 years! The whole system needs to be scrapped and a new formula based on the two Andy's approach to politics. If their ideas became the new model of a constitution, the UK could indeed find a new way forward!
What a great show.. such empathy.
Two very sincere and intelligent guys getting it right.
I've just found this channel and I'm hooked. The 2 Andys speak with such clarity and honesty, supported by great questions. I very much agree that the national politics has to move beyond the confrontational, party-only approach.
Really useful and informative discussion - the ROI element was new to me.
Above all, the first positive discourse between left and right that at last gives me hope for the UK.
More like this please.
it's nice to hear a positive slant on our future, isn't it after six years of post brexit point scoring.. I think increasing regional power is the way to go. Westminster is a joke, and not a very funny one - what a contrast between the adversarial sniping you get there and the civility and intelligence of the two Andys.
Wonderful discussion, and what a great approach they both take!
Wow! Optimism, fantastic. Thank you all.
Impressed to see the quality of regional mayors
A very good point I noticed was made here - that tension of national relations just isn't there with cities, it all immediately becomes light hearted. UK-Ireland relations feel very intense. Talking about Birmingham-Dublin communications feels like the only thing that could come out of it is an exchange of ideas on how to run a city. Very interesting chat.
I’m enjoying Rory’s book.
It’s a great read
Excellent episode. Really interesting discussion. Have we ever needed a nonpartisan approach more? Thanks chaps.
Excellent podcast. Well done - Rory would make a great Mayor.
BRILLIANT. Very clear both of them have studied the growth of East Germany.
Interesting debate. The adversarial atmosphere, culture, behaviour (call it what you wish) in Westminster is so destructive and is partly responsible for the mess we’re now in. It is long past its sell by date. We need regions to have far more power and influence and a move away from the centralist behaviour. With the right financial investment, levelling up would be a reality. But I don’t see it happening anytime soon. What would help in the meantime would be to have a new style of debating chamber. The H of C is a bear pit that needs to be dispensed with.
This was absolutely a brilliant addition to the catalogue. Keep up the fantastic work boys! 👏
Refreshing conversations from this podcast - thank you. It's nice to hear someone involved in politics talking about things regular people can relate to - learning by failure and learning through difficult tasks. The current Westminster ensemble are bandying around "making hard decisions" that seemingly involves minimal effort on their part and maximum inconvenience for anyone who's not earning above £100k, and "delivering for the British people" which always seems to be a beautifully wrapped box brimming with nothingness. But when you've been given a life of luxury on a silver platter, they probably haven't learnt these lessons.
I like the respect you show each guest and each other. A lesson for many if only they would see
I interviewed Andy Street for my university newspaper. Very impressive figure.
I'm not a Tory voter but he comes across very well.
Excellent application of the podcast model! Here are 4 people clearly passionate about politics; no scorn, no hate.
I'm rarely impressed with or by politicians but the two andys are a great act
Thanks guys for the great, balanced conversation.
Another great and thought provoking podcast . My only slight and very nerdy criticism is that when you put a map of the West Midlands City Region Mayoral area up it was of the whole West Midlands region ( ie also including Staffordshire , Worcestershire , Warwickshire , Shropshire and Herefordshire ) . I am pretty sure that the area covered by Andy Street's jurisdiction and electorate is the West Midlands metropolitan county ( the seven Boroughs / Cities of Birmingham , Coventry , Wolverhampton , Walsall , Solihull , Sandwell and Dudley .
Andy B is about a billion times more likeable than Kier Starmer.
Wonderful stuff, thank you for this
I assume Alastair and Rory realise the West Midlands shown at 2:40 is the West Midlands Region (which Andy Street isn't mayor of) not West Midlands combined authority (that Andy Street is mayor of)?
The respect in that studio! Absolutely wonderful to watch.
great discussion - thoroughly enjoyed it!
To quote a CCHQ staff member, the Tories want more Matt Hancock’s as candidates (admittedly said pre scandal). That means more lies, more mediocrity, more pretence. Westminster is one big media bubble and the politicians are the stars of the show, or perhaps the clowns in the circus?
It is so refreshing to listen to two grown-up politicians of different parties have an open discussion without the need to resort to petty and immature point scoring or ‘he said, she said’ nonsense which has so detached millions from engaging in politics.
The sheer lack of ego was absolutely delightful. The blueprint for a better future for all corners of our nation is on show within this podcast. Take note, Government/opposition.
Great work as always Rory, Alastair.
If it was Andy Burnham vs Andy Street in the general election, there might just be a joint government or it would be hard af to vote for either. They are both mayors of prospering/near prosperous cities. They both seem more conscious of their surroundings and aware what needs to be done and tries to do it, not delusional like some. Imagine if these two create their own party.
The levelling up was ABSOLUTELY just a slogan. The North East has seen absolutely nothing of it. For me to get a train from an east-coast mainline town to my nearest town 9 miles away it takes over an hour and i have to change trains. The buses are almost nonexistent and the ones that turn up are expensive and the companies keep cutting services to villages because theyre not profitable enough. Levelling up has failed in the North and whilst Manchester is technically the north there is 100+ miles further north that has seen no real investment in public infrastructure for more than a decade.
Bournville is actually an example of the Quaker social business model.
Fantastic pod❤
Incredible episode guys
Wonderful vlog.
This was great.
what a great pod cast thank you, that's how politics should be.
Great episode
Fabulously interesting
Compare these two with virtually any current politician who's been inside Westminster for as long as they have served - these two actually still seem to have a soul left intact. English devolution absolutely must be the future.
Great interview. Love the show. And being a geek, I want to know what brand of microphones are they using......
What a wonderful discussion. Westminster is now really irrelevant and we should move to full devolution.
Great episode, I feel some hope for this country for the first time in a while. That hope is in devolution. These are the real politicians of this country.
I've been watching old political discussion from the 1960s and 70s. This podcast reminded me of that. Discussion of the issues without any attempts to score pionts.
If English devolution enables this to happen, lets have more
This was a fantastic discussion that put perspective on what devolution could achieve for our country. Perhaps the future is a little less bleak than it's felt as of late.
Genuinely interesting - and it's a wonderful example of what happens when you get four grown-ups around the table - intelligent, positive political discussion, free from vacuous 3-word slogans and buzzphrases.
I'm never going to vote Conservative, but that doesn't stop me from respecting Andy Street for what he's done for the West Midlands - as I said, grown-ups...
Agree , I will never vote Tory , but both Andy Street and Rory Stewart come across as decent and thoughtful .
Living in the West Midlands, I have seen Mr.Street's work, and... the one thing he's never done is to call himself the "Conservative Mayor of the WMCA", he's the "Mayor of the WMCA"; he's spent his time just getting on with the job, and I have to respect that.
Absolutely brilliant. I wish the West of England Mayor (excluding North Somerset Council which is the “Bristol and Bath” city region equivalent of Norway) had this level of calibre and personality!
What does equivalent of Norway mean?
Their collaborative approach to political co-operation and consensus building, gives a sense of what PR could bring to UK National politics. Rather than the bickering, hectoring finger pointing. Rather than the extremist, party first see-saw between the big two parties. A far more intelligent, collaborative approach to dealing with the UKs problems. So, so refreshing.
I worked in a school in the 1990’s which lost its technical education strand when comprehensives came in. Older teachers recalled students going into apprenticeships with a head start - or straight out to work, for example in the building industry- with a good living ahead of them.
In the their opinion a one size fits all system was failing many of our children. They were going out disenfranchised and with poor exam results in academic subjects.
Back in the day of course many companies had a system of apprenticeships far superior to what is available now (on the whole). The habit and the history- chains of employees having come through the system and training the next- was broken.
So inspiring
The cancellation of HS2 is a perfect example of not levelling up at all, yes it is massively over budget, but we NEED IT ANYWAY. I am in Stockport and can tell you that his taking over the buses is HUGE, the prices have reduced substantially and benefit those that have little money to spend the most.The cost of Andy Burnham standing so strongly with the Hillsborough families and going with his conscience rather than 'party 1st and political point scoring' was huge- he may well have been PM now. What Greater Manchester needs now is power over the housing budget to create more secure and affordable housing to rent and buy, housing is one of the biggest stresses today. Just to add at the end that a lot of Peaky Blinders was filmed in Bolton and Stockport as Greater Manchester offers amazing film locations thanks to the BBC and ITV having big bases here.
So refreshing!! Please close Westminster Parlament put these 4 guys in charge and we will fix the country.
'Place first' - what a slogan. What party wouldn't win with that as their focus. Both Andy's (and other mayors) are great examples of leaders working cooperatively for maximum overall benefit. Devolved power is of course the way we should be going but like all good ideas it's not all plain sailing. We have great examples here of big cities taking on self-determination to the extent they are allowed but how does this pan out in rural areas? Internationally, rural areas are much more tricky to administer precisely because of the lack of density of population and the more independent spirit that comes from managing day to day without the resources of large conurbations. Second, the power of an individual in these mayoral positions is both an advantage and a disadvantage. With characters of integrity these positions have the potential for great progress and this is what we witnessed here. How do we ensure that we get such integrity as the norm? It is arguable that as the first incumbents the Andy's have benefitted from the lack of a precedent and as pioneers been more responsive. The pioneers have established the position as a powerful one so subsequent contenders are more likely to be drawn by the power rather than the responsibility and bring more political agendas. There may be no definitive answers but these (and other) questions must be borne in mind as we move forward.
Very sad. The map displayed for the West Midlands is not the area Andy Street is major of. The area is alot smaller and doesn't include the counties of Staffordshire or Shropshire.
Rory said years ago that the reason he was running for mayor (London at the time) was the ability to have actual impact, to be able to get things done. Andy B touched on it at the start of this interview that “you’re able to be yourself more” being outside the vehicle of party politics. This point is so key. I’m reading a lot of comments and hearing a lot of “Westminster is broken” however what is Westminster but a representation of the people?
Is the narrative that “Westminster is broken” representation that the way people engage with politics (or rather have disengaged from politics) is broken? 30 second tik tok videos, 100 character tweets on proper policy, quick & lazy journalism … knowing who you’re voting for and being informed is hard - people have busy lives and work long hours. But I take one look at local journalism (here in Newcastle The Evening Chronicle) both in print and online and it has become, largely, complete garbage which is nothing more than gossip to feed easy clicks for more advertising sales. It starts with YOU so take time, listen to the other argument, be wary of fast and easy answers and hold yourself to the same standards you want from your politicans. Maybe that last point is what has gotten us to where we are now?!
Westminster isn't a representation of the people, it is a system created and evolved by the powerful to retain power. It is a sham democracy.
I’d welcome an episode with Labours Andrew Weston and Conservative Simon Clarke. I think they’d be great together discussing housing reform and show more can be done from a cross party platform
Wow!!! Wowowowowow. This was one of your finest podcasts. Why - breadth of relevant topics and the skill the whole team had for keeping the content understandable, simple and direct.
When will you stop talking about gov overhaul and step up to form a party that will actually bring about change....😅
Really interesting two people…
Great comedy from John Cheese and the rest of the Monty Python team.
I think the video got the west midlands wrong. Andy street is the mayor of the county not the region.
and the value of longer term leadership.
This interview could be a great promotion for a coalition government
Or for more regional devolution.
Yes! But only if you have the right candidate's. Dare I say educated people people with experience to run a successful council or business.
And proportional representation.
Andy Burnham hero
Map showing the county of West Mids is wrong. Instead it showed the region of West Mids. West Mids county is much, much smaller and centred around Bham, Coventry and Wolverhampton!
This is truly the zeitgeist
I hope this is what our politics can look like going forward now. I am sick of Westminster politics. It is about self-interest, climbing the greasy pole, and constituents get left behind.
Could we empower MPs, and thereby hold them more accountable, to oversee projects in their constituency? There would be competition between MPs, voters will be able to see results (or otherwise) in their own local area, and with everything out in the open, people will be able to compare MPs. Everything will be more transparent. Politicians will actually have to be good and do their jobs.
But it is wishful thinking, MPs voting for anything like that is turkeys voting for Christmas.
21:40 wonder if Andy Street will be given a second chance as mayor of West Midlands?
Levelling up - just jam tomorrow, a promise that never comes to reality
Rory, come to Liverpool as Regional Mayor I know you would do a brilliant job.
This is brilliant. It really makes the case for proportional representation instead of the nasty tribalism of Westminster.
This is the way politics should be done. Even the way the two Andy's handled the HS2 issue (which happened after this interview) avoided tribal party loyalties. They argued their point regarding HS2 in a constructive way, focused on the needs of the people not their ideologies and avoided name calling.
My one gripe (a big one) with the way English and UK devolution is working is that it ignores over half the UK population. That is most people in the UK live outside Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Greater London and the six Metropolitan Counties (West Midlands, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, Merseyside, South Yorkshire and Tyne and Wear). In other words, over half of the UK population lives in an English county but this is barely talked about when discussing devolved power. When for instance are the English counties going to get their own county-wide mayor, with similar powers to the ones the two Andy's have?
Your initial map of the West Midlands is incorrect, at least in this context.. It does show the West Midlands region but Mr Street is Mayor of the West Midlands Combined Authority. This covers a much smaller area, including Birmingham, Coventry and the neighbouring districts.
I'm a proud Manc, but the industrial revolution started at Arkwirght's mill in Cromford, Derbyshire. That's just a fact.
Rory should try for the Mayor of West Yorkshire!
trust me, as an american i can unequivocally state that you do not want a written constitution! codified constitutions keep societies chained to the past and the time in which they were written and ratified and heavily constrain the governments ability to enact the will of the contemporary electorate from cycle to cycle and hinder that society’s ability to evolve with the times as necessary. the uk’s non-codified constitution and its principle of parliamentary sovereignty is actually its greatest democratic strength and what makes it one of the only true democratic nations in the world.
there’s no change or reform that a british government can’t enact as long as the electorate gave them a simple majority in parliament, which gives the british electorate great power when it comes to shaping contemporary society from cycle to cycle. whatever one government enacts another can subsequently undue if it’s unpopular enough that they got booted by the electorate. on the other hand, in the united states, even if 90% of the electorate desperately wants a change or reform and they elect politicians to make it happen it’s still highly unlikely that it will without some type of supermajority in both houses of congress or constitutional convention... and even then, the supreme court can always just strike it down if they feel like it.
Why aren't some episodes on spotify?
Constitutional revolution on the scale of 1776 is an absolute necessity in Britain.
Andy Burnham and the mid Staffordshire report, discuss…
Thank you for the positive influence of the Irish in the culture in Birmingham and west Midlands....an example is Katie McCabe...no relation!!...captain of the Irish ladies football team who plays for arsenal in London and whose family live in west midlands. David McCabe Dublin Irelandk
Dominic Cummings circumvented John Prescott's plan for regionalisation.
Westminster dysfunctional? Should collaborate cross-party? Hello Proportional Representation!
Andy Burnham, please sort out Manchester city centre before you move on to any higher positions. You can't walk 10 feet without seeing a drug addict, drug dealer, somebody begging for money or youths huddled outisde shops causing trouble. And I mean the very centre of the city, around Piccadilly Gardens/Market Street. It is like a slum, it is embarrassing and in desparate need of cleaning up and regenerating.
All four brutally expose the uselessness of the Westminster system by simply talking sensibly (and often agreeing) with one another
Well said Andy B, local investment for local businesses, investing in non leading returns to give them a chance to become a leading return, basic standards throughout the UK, a constitution 100% behind you. Unfortunately your not going to achieve these outcomes while we have a two party state, especially while both parties have a cosy relationship with the financial sector, what is it now the sq mile in London produces 10% ? of the country’s tax incomes, thats before you add the Greater London incomes around 40% , the political will to deter funds from the funding sources in London is non existent in either party. Why, because the parties are scared that we cannot reproduce these incomes if it hinders financial sector and while they offer incomes to MP’s post their political career if they maintain or improve their tax levels and freedoms in non regulation.