Hey Al ! It's hard to tell you "well 2nd order does this" as this is really not how the distortion / optimisation process works. But, here's all i can tell you about distortions : - the 1st / 2nd / 3rd order of optimisation is equivalent to asking the software to compute K1 / K2 / K3. - K1, K2 and K3 are 3 unknowns (x) in an equation that is used to solve the distortion of the lens : how do you transform a fisheye image to project it onto a sphere. - When computed in the optimization process, these values are calculated using what information about the image the software has. Basically, APG will use the information from the control points (and other data computed from the first stitch) to compute those values. When using 1st order, K2 and K3 will be left to 0. If using 2nd order, the software will try to solve K1 and K2 but leave K3 to 0. etc. - The only way to get good values for K1, K2 and K3 is by calibrating the lens yourself. This is what we have done for the presets available in AVP (ie : "stitch as GoPro Hero3+ / 4"). This means the values you get by default when you stitch as GoPro (or Entanya or iZugar in AVP 2.6) are absolutely correct. To compute correct values for a calibration process, you need control points all the way from the center to the side of the fisheye. See this documentation for more info on calibration : www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/view/Autopano_Video_-_Lens_calibration_-_Camera_preset - This means that in the context of a 360 video rig, it is IMPOSSIBLE to end up with the correct distortions other than by luck. You just don't have enough information because you don't have enough overlapping. - Since in the equation the values are squared, small differences in these values can make quite a difference. The more parameters you have in the equation (ie K3), the more precise you need to be. - Modifying them means that you use the distortion to compensate for parallax issues by warping the image 'incorrectly" onto the sphere. This explains why it CAN work in some situations, but can also create issues. This is why we don't recommend modifying it as a rule of thumb. Leaving the focal free of being optimised can also create issues, but those are usually less significant. If you play with the distortion, leaving the FOV at "current value" can also be an interesting combo to adjust your image in a different way. All of this is really meant to say : when you play with distortions you expose yourself to problems. Or to not solving your problems anyways. I personally never use anything else than "keep current values". And one thing is for sure, 1st / 2nd / 3rd order has nothing to do with stitching focused on foreground / mid ground / background. Hope this covers all of your questions ! Loïc
Loïc Thanks so much. This actually explains a lot. When I trained in England, they did not explain them at all. So this opens up much more to me. Now, can you explain how to use Manual points? I have never really gotten them to work well. best Al
There's almost no situation where using manual points instead of the square tool can be useful. The computer will always find the pixels more accurately when you use the semi-automatic.
Hello, are control points compatible with D-Warp function? To me it seems that whenever I set up control points, my d-warp adjustments disappear. I am trying to improve my shootings, I only get a static shot, after d-warp I get good results with people in it, but some places behind them are "wobbling" so I am trying to eliminate that. THX
hey how are you??? thanks a lot for the tutorials, they are a good help for us. I have a 360 freedom template I downloaded from the Kolor site. But, I noticed that the position cams in it are the flat position, not like the position your cams over your desk with the 360 rig you use, do you have the template for this position cams??
You can create your own template by stitching some footage, adjusting everything and saving the .pano in the appropriate folder (see here : www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/view/Autopano_Video_-_Tutorials_-_Stitching_with_user_templates )
Hi Loic Do you have a specific tutorial on mask use. I'm trying to play with this but don't really understand the result I get. I understood that the mask can be used to get a better stitching by "forcing" one the overlaping from one camera to the other, is that right ? Thanks PS : Thanks for all those video. Until then it was very difficult to understand all the functionnalities of the Kolor software
Bonjour, merci beaucoup !! Cependant, j'ai un drôle de problème. Dans un projet particulier lorsque je fais des modifications dans APG et que je sauvegarde le projet *.pano. Il ne se passe rien, aucune de mes modifications apparaissent dans AVP. J'ai du mal à comprendre car normalement ça fonctionne ?? Pouvez-vous m'indiquer ce qui peut causer celà?
The changes I make with APG 4.4, like the masks and vertical lines, no longer want to appear in the AVP 2.6 application. It's like if the two applications are no longer talking to each other. In some projects it works well, but it does not work with others? Do you know how to fix this problem?
Already answered elsewhgere but i'll drop the answer here for eveyone to see if needed, but you can restore the link by using "import panorama" in the top menu of AVP and pointing it to the .pano automatically created by APG.
Thanks for doing these Loïc, really useful tips
Please explain what exactly are the 1st order, 2nd order and 3rd order and how it affects the pano.
Hey Al ! It's hard to tell you "well 2nd order does this" as this is really not how the distortion / optimisation process works.
But, here's all i can tell you about distortions :
- the 1st / 2nd / 3rd order of optimisation is equivalent to asking the software to compute K1 / K2 / K3.
- K1, K2 and K3 are 3 unknowns (x) in an equation that is used to solve the distortion of the lens : how do you transform a fisheye image to project it onto a sphere.
- When computed in the optimization process, these values are calculated using what information about the image the software has. Basically, APG will use the information from the control points (and other data computed from the first stitch) to compute those values. When using 1st order, K2 and K3 will be left to 0. If using 2nd order, the software will try to solve K1 and K2 but leave K3 to 0. etc.
- The only way to get good values for K1, K2 and K3 is by calibrating the lens yourself. This is what we have done for the presets available in AVP (ie : "stitch as GoPro Hero3+ / 4"). This means the values you get by default when you stitch as GoPro (or Entanya or iZugar in AVP 2.6) are absolutely correct. To compute correct values for a calibration process, you need control points all the way from the center to the side of the fisheye. See this documentation for more info on calibration : www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/view/Autopano_Video_-_Lens_calibration_-_Camera_preset
- This means that in the context of a 360 video rig, it is IMPOSSIBLE to end up with the correct distortions other than by luck. You just don't have enough information because you don't have enough overlapping.
- Since in the equation the values are squared, small differences in these values can make quite a difference. The more parameters you have in the equation (ie K3), the more precise you need to be.
- Modifying them means that you use the distortion to compensate for parallax issues by warping the image 'incorrectly" onto the sphere. This explains why it CAN work in some situations, but can also create issues. This is why we don't recommend modifying it as a rule of thumb. Leaving the focal free of being optimised can also create issues, but those are usually less significant. If you play with the distortion, leaving the FOV at "current value" can also be an interesting combo to adjust your image in a different way.
All of this is really meant to say : when you play with distortions you expose yourself to problems. Or to not solving your problems anyways. I personally never use anything else than "keep current values". And one thing is for sure, 1st / 2nd / 3rd order has nothing to do with stitching focused on foreground / mid ground / background.
Hope this covers all of your questions !
Loïc
Loïc
Thanks so much. This actually explains a lot. When I trained in England, they did not explain them at all. So this opens up much more to me.
Now, can you explain how to use Manual points? I have never really gotten them to work well.
best
Al
There's almost no situation where using manual points instead of the square tool can be useful. The computer will always find the pixels more accurately when you use the semi-automatic.
Great tips Loïc! Thank you.
Hello, are control points compatible with D-Warp function? To me it seems that whenever I set up control points, my d-warp adjustments disappear. I am trying to improve my shootings, I only get a static shot, after d-warp I get good results with people in it, but some places behind them are "wobbling" so I am trying to eliminate that. THX
hey how are you??? thanks a lot for the tutorials, they are a good help for us. I have a 360 freedom template I downloaded from the Kolor site. But, I noticed that the position cams in it are the flat position, not like the position your cams over your desk with the 360 rig you use, do you have the template for this position cams??
You can create your own template by stitching some footage, adjusting everything and saving the .pano in the appropriate folder (see here : www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/view/Autopano_Video_-_Tutorials_-_Stitching_with_user_templates )
great, thanks a lot!!!!
Hi Loic
Do you have a specific tutorial on mask use.
I'm trying to play with this but don't really understand the result I get.
I understood that the mask can be used to get a better stitching by "forcing" one the overlaping from one camera to the other, is that right ?
Thanks
PS : Thanks for all those video. Until then it was very difficult to understand all the functionnalities of the Kolor software
Hey, thanks !
Regarding the masks, that is correct.
More info on how to use them here : th-cam.com/video/BVOzb4ZKJco/w-d-xo.htmlm58s
Thanks
I'm going to rewatch it then :)
Seems so simple but when I try the result is not so good :)
As with any craft, practice makes perfect ! It takes a lot of time to really master the usage of the software.
Bonjour, merci beaucoup !! Cependant, j'ai un drôle de problème. Dans un projet particulier lorsque je fais des modifications dans APG et que je sauvegarde le projet *.pano. Il ne se passe rien, aucune de mes modifications apparaissent dans AVP. J'ai du mal à comprendre car normalement ça fonctionne ?? Pouvez-vous m'indiquer ce qui peut causer celà?
The changes I make with APG 4.4, like the masks and vertical lines, no longer want to appear in the AVP 2.6 application. It's like if the two applications are no longer talking to each other.
In some projects it works well, but it does not work with others? Do you know how to fix this problem?
Already answered elsewhgere but i'll drop the answer here for eveyone to see if needed, but you can restore the link by using "import panorama" in the top menu of AVP and pointing it to the .pano automatically created by APG.
Thank you for your reply
Instructions unclear: my footage is now stuck between the 7th and 8th dimension of parallax universes.