This is truly the most considered, measured and intelligent commentary on bear attacks that I have seen. I also greatly appreciate the respectful manner demonstrated to the victims of this attack.
You are very kind. I've been bothered at the lack of informed, respectful commentary. I hope that this and other videos will help sort through the internet's vitriol and bull and gain a sound understanding of these amazing but powerful animals and why they sometimes attack. Thanks so much for your support! More to come.
It was a contributing factor. Google brown bear attacks in North America. Or just research TH-cam for bear attack survivors. Countless dogs have been deathed by brown bears over the years. They annoy the hell out of bears.
Some bears HATE dogs. If that bear was just snooping around and the dog started barking it may have irritated the bear to the point of 'collapsing the tent' with everything escalating from there. Best policy is to take the risk off the table and leave the dog at home.
I agree. I recently was dog-sitting. This was the dog in the car when he saw a herd of elk. He went completely nuts. th-cam.com/users/shortsfGvlYgmOF0M
With over 50 years of experience in the backcountry, I learned a long time ago to not bet your life on one solution. I carry spray, and firearms. I also have an electric fence that I use when truck camping. I travel with a dog. All four are assets, but all four require some sense and management. I've had many tense encounters with wildlife, including bears over the decades. To say that such encounters are rare is a primary reason that less experienced backcountry travelers get into trouble. They don't think they have to take the threat seriously. Among people who spend a lot of time out there, theses encounters are not so rare, but most encounters that are a close miss never get reported or counted. Even most shootings go unreported. Then someone is killed, and all the "this is so rare" commentators come out. You notice that the response team was armed. Imagine that. I've had close calls with both black bears and grizzlies, as well as javelina, coyotes, raccoons and skunks, all of which were extremely aggressive. Some definitely influenced by the dog. One thing that never ever ever gets mentioned is that mensurating women or animals are at extremely increased risk, for obvious reasons. Yep, it's rare,...till it happens to you.
Very true. I am not even particularly 'outdoorsy' and I have had bear and mountain lion encounters over the years. Certainly not 'rare' and definitely unreported.
You forgot the most important thing, Canada, like some US states, have anti-hunters in the Parks Dept's and the DNR Dept's. Also, anyone is clueless if they haven't been paying attention to the locals in Canada discussing they're bear populations have increased dramatically because of less bears being taken during bear hunting seasons because of less bear hunters. And thanks to Trudeau, Canada is consficating more firearms from their law abiding citizens of Canada.
I know a famous doctor of bears who is also an author who has said there is no connection between menstruating women and bear attacks. He's written several books on the topic of bear attacks. Also. Just the other day I watched a show where it was mentioned that the woman in the man went out together for a back country trip and it is believed that the initial attack started because she was menstruating. I know that polar bears are particularly interested and pursue the smell of menstrual blood, but I did not think it was the same with grizzlies until now. It does make sense though that as strong as their sense of smell is 10 times of a bloodhound that that could be it contributing factor in an attack. Thank you for bringing that up. Women have to be aware
@@eveslady100 I don't think it matters what the source of the blood is. The smell of blood is an indicator that an animal is probably injured, and may be easy prey. Every predator on earth responds to it. I don't want too get too graphic, but women camping during their cycle will be discarding feminine products, as well as the scent on their body. They may unwittingly be laying down a trail right to them. It is an issue that women should be aware of. If the timing can't be avoided, at least be very careful about hygiene, and burn any waste that you produce. Don't bury it or carry it around with you. I hope your travels are safe!
@@eveslady100Unless the doctor is also a bear expert and has access to specific studies regarding period blood and bear attraction, then the fact that he/she is a doctor is meaningless. I'll share a personal anecdote that solidified, for me, that bears are indeed attracted to period blood. I lived in North Vancouver for a number of years, a five minute walk from the Grouse Mountain gondola. Big time bear country despite the significant amount of houses and presence of people. Black bears were spotted on my street at least monthly. I've had a handful of close calls with bears on my own front walk. We had a bear-proof shed-type container to place our garbage in. It survived many attacks. One day, however, a particularly large and aggressive bear lifted the whole shed up and smashed it on the ground, emptying the bags of garbage everywhere. On the morning when we ventured outside to inspect, there was only one bag that was torn open. That bag was the one from our bathroom. Know what contents were missing from that bag? A handful of spoiled maxi-pads from my wife's period. You can believe what you want to believe but to me, after that experience, tells me that first, bears can smell period blood, even through a taped up odor-defeating maxi-pads, that were in a smaller plastic bag, placed into a larger plastic bag, both tied and stored inside a black plastic garbage can, which itself was stored inside a locked garbage shed. The second thing that became clear is that a bear associates the period smell with food and is willing to investigate and exert significant effort to get to the source of the period blood smell. Would a woman having her period be at greater risk of being attacked? My experience doesn't conclusively prove yes or no, as who knows if a bear would risk attacking a human just to investigate that smell. However, it is a risk I no longer take.
I'm a gun guy and I don't think this should be used as an opportunity to push carrying guns. Not everyone is comfortable nor competent with firearms and that can be a deadly combination itself.
The macro question is ultimately can u physically stop a charging one thousand pound grizzly bear coming straight for u whether it's a charging mother grizzly bear who has a crazy adrenaline dump going throughout its whole body coming to kill the threat against her cubs or an older predator bear that is coming for a meal starving to death and hungry where ur only defense is the open scenery and trees where u irrefutablely can't outrun that bear for the life of u.. But it's ur life on the line in this unequivocal possible death scenario with a can of bear spray in ur hand that might stop the bear in the mentioned above situations whereas a 12 gage shotgun or handgun will definitely stop that bead.. People who are not educated on guns should go take lessons while diligently understanding and knowing how to use them when they go into bear country unless they don't care about their lives or suicidal ideations.. Some people might think a bear's life is more important vs a human life but the bottom line is making the right choice or take the gamble with a thousand pound grizzly bear who has weapons that can kill u in seconds..
I was bluff charged by a mother grizzly in Kananskis on 2017 (on the way up Mt. Allan if anyone is interested, however bears can be encountered anywhere.) I agree with your final comment that Doug and Jenny were severely disadvantaged by being attacked when they were relaxing in their tent, and possibly even asleep. The fact that people are blaming them and speculating when they were in that prone and extremely vulnerable position when attacked is disgusting to be honest. My awareness of the situation and ability to stand and face the bear fully alert with my bear spray in hand, as well as the good luck of her choosing not to attack me in the end, are likely what saved me that day. Not any special competence or experience.
😢this is such a sad video about Doug and Jennie. Im so sorry for them and their family and friends. Once again ive learned alot from this channel!! Thank you so much.
We also know that they were delayed. If they set up camp in the dark it is possible they missed signs of bear activity, such as scat, damaged trees, or even a nearby bedding area.
@@Kat-ic9yk The final message is "we're delayed, but everything is okay." This could have been sent from the trail. We just don't know, I guess! The park service should really be providing some information and analysis.
So my intuition is that they were delayed on the trail and realized "we've got to get a message out now so they don't worry about us...." They arrived at camp in the dark without realizing there was a bear nearby. Bear shows up shortly after and attacks the folk impinging on her territory. We'll see! The parks service surely will provide more information soon for the benefit of all hikers. This kind of information could save lives.
there is bear activity in the area, everywhere and at all times where they hiked. they camped at an approved camp site in the park. had they moved on 1 or 2 km's past the camp, they would still have been around bear activity. it's not avoidable in the Banff backcountry.
@@thecount1001 I meant directly within a few yards of an area a bear had started inhabiting. My understanding is that they do make nests. I saw a video on YT from Stan Mills describing how bears regularly use trails that pass by designated camp sites in Yosemite. An older female bear that is being harassed by males might decide to try to set up camp where the humans were spending time, especially if the camp had not been used recently. We need more information!
We were camping in the same valley the week prior to this tragedy. I appreciate your honest, intelligent and respectful discussion regarding the events, thank you. I understand that Parks Canada wants to protect personal information and respect the families, and rightfully so, but lessons learned from this tragedy might save lives in the future. Difficult choices either way.
Their names were public in the papers by the next day! They are in the same town I live in, even their Dogs name was written, in most things i Could find which was a lot, since they were well know here, and friends and family was on tv to tell their story in regards to this incident !
Thanks so much for watching and for you kind feedback. It is a difficult choice, and Doug and Jenny have been maligned online by clueless trolls. Who would want their loved one to be assailed after suffering such a terrible fate? But, you are right. Details and informed analysis save lives. The better we understand this attack, the better able we are to learn from it and prevent similar tragedies. It's the proverbial rock and a hard place. Thanks so much again for chiming in and contributing to the respectful and informed discussion!
I am not sure why Canada seems to have such a problem with allowing people to defend themselves... We are always supposed to call and wait for someone else to show up with a firearm to help. With the current pretty far left liberal government, they have been more hellbent than ever before on taking away licensed, legal firearms from Canadians, so I don't see the issue of protecting ones self in the wilderness getting any better until a new government gets in power and first reverses the damage done to licensed, legal firearms by the current leadership... after that, maybe they can look more into the idea of wilderness carry. Its written in the law, but no provincial firearms office lets it be used beyond a handful of special people. I think they should allow wilderness carry of a sidearm, for licensed firearms owners that have taken an extra course for carrying a side arm for wilderness protection.... and make it so there is a minimum caliber... a 22 or 9 mm handgun isnt going to help very much during an attack. Its better than nothing, but it should be relegated to revolvers over .357 in size, or semi-autos such as 10 mm or larger, and for women it should be the largest caliber they can confidently use... I see no real issue with this as I don't think there will be a problem of licensed, trained and approved citizens carrying a sidearm in remote wilderness just so they can walk with a limp acting "thuggish" ... it is completely practical and if you ask people in Alaska, they think Canada is nuts for not allowing its civilians to carry a sidearm in the wild. Carrying a shotgun or rifle on your back is just not very practical for many people exploring and adventuring in the wilderness. A sidearm on the hip is much more out of the way and more likely for people to actually bring with them. I know I would be more tempted to put on a belt than to throw a 6 pound long gun over my shoulder. I was fly fishing in B.C a few years ago and its quite dangerous because the sound of the river water drowns out alot of forest sounds... A bear could easily get very close without knowing it.... and if I had to carry a shotgun with me, it would end up sitting on a rock or on the bank because it gets in the way of fishing.... but a revolver on the hip would stay there the whole time. At the very least, there should be the option for people to choose what they want to carry... whether it be mace, a shotgun, or revolver... I think in a perfect world I would have bear mace on one hip and a revolver on the other. That would truly be your best odds possible in an attack encounter. Use the mace first if there is time... or the revolver if its a charge. The same week we were in BC fishing, a young girl was attacked a few KM from where we were fishing. I believe she passed away from it.... Was a real wake up call, and got me thinking how unfair our government can be when it comes to preservation of your own life. I realize asking the government to use some common sense is asking a bit too much, but this is my opinion anyways. Be safe out there for everyone venturing into the wild.
This is a very thoughtful and well-informed video. Thanks for making it. Like a few other commentators, I have many, many years of experience behind me, backpacking, camping, hunting, and fishing in bear country. I studied bear behavior at university as a student, which I think has positively informed my experience of wilderness recreation in Alberta, Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico over the years. I have had hundreds of safe interactions and sightings of bears, with a goodly number of close “encounters” with bears that turned out well. I have used both bear spray and a firearm (not lethally) to deter bears on two occasions, once each. I have also hunted bears, but will likely not do so again, as I’ve grown older. These experiences are highly subjective and not scientific, of course, but they affirmed my opinion that spray and guns both have utility in preventing bear attacks. I started carrying bear spray in the 1980’s based on limited data. As you point out here, the data are now overwhelmingly favorable in the use of bear spray as a deterrent. But I also carry firearms, which I could not legally do in the first 30 years of my outdoors recreational life, in Alberta’s mountain parks. Having BOTH spray and a firearm is my personal minimum level of protection in bear country today where I live, in the USA. Adding a portable electric fence to my kit on future overnight wilderness trips is now a high priority for me. Thank you for creating this content, I will subscribe to your channel and look forward to more of your offerings.
Seems like a classic predatory attack. Most predatory attacks by grizzlies happen at night in campsites, and are usually done by older bears in poor health like the one shot and killed at the scene. This is similar to the bear in the Treadwell attack in 2003 and the sow in the Soda Butte Campground attacks in 2010. With it being fall, the bear would also have been in hyperphagia and very desperate for food. I’m surprised that an entire can of bear spray failed to stop the attack, though the bear likely pounced on the tent in the dark and flattened it before they knew what was happening, leaving no time to aim and deploy it correctly. Even a firearm probably wouldn’t have helped in such a situation, like in the Huffman attack in Alaska in 2005, which was also a predatory grizzly attack that occurred at night in a campsite.
Yeah these attacks often shortly after dark makes one wonder if the bear could've been stalking them and waited until dark or they went into the tent to attack.
Or as some mentioned if running late and set up tent at dark don't notice potential warning signs bear sign scat or whatnot and inadvertently camp in bears space.
Yeah they were attacked while in the tent so don't see how they could use the spray in time or effectively. Also at night hard to aim the spray at bears face or nose so could easily spray in wrong direction
I lived in Calgary for a couple of years in the 90th. Transport Canada used to have large signs along the Trans Canada Highway to Banff showing a mountain climber with the text: "And the most dangerous thing he did was driving to the mountains". This certainly holds true even for bear attacks - they are highly unlikely compared to serious traffic accidents but receive much more attention from the media. While we should do all we can to prevent bear attacks we should also relate this risk to other risks we face. Thanks for your excellent video!
You make an outstanding point. Thanks for sharing. Bear attacks very much capture the imagination and fuel excessive internet hysteria. My hope is to counteract the frenzy and provide quality insights for people who spend time in bear country. Every attack is a tragedy, but it's also an opportunity to learn. Thanks so much for your comment!
A firearm is the best and final defense from Bears, Bear spray is a good defense but it has weaknesses in time, weather and proximity. An electric fence is highly advisable in tent sleeping if it can be carried into the country. a shotgun and slugs is the best Bear defensive weapon if you can carry it along as well and know how to use it. Just sad as they had everything but a firearm which is the tool they needed in this situation!
You make an interesting comment about the bear possibly following the dog's scent to the tent. I had always associated a bear-dog interaction originating from a point of annoyance - the dog barking at a bear and the bear giving chase as a result. It never occurred to me that the bear may consider the dog as a food source. My hunting partner and I encountered a grizzly - within about 20 yards - this year that exhibited threatening behaviour. It had a noticeable limp and was quite thin. Its poor health, a lack of berries in the area and other healthy bears nearby were factors that we think contributed to the situation. Despite setting off several "bear bangers'' and gunshots, and getting upwind of it, it did not want to leave us alone. I have seen many grizzlies in northern Canada but this encounter was the closest I have come to a bad outcome.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've had a few close calls myself. Always unnerving. Bears really do have differing reasons for behaving aggressively. Sometimes it's because a dog is barking, sometimes it's just because the dog is there, and they're looking for calories. They're opportunists and live a rough life. They're always deserving of respect.
Yes I thought same thing that bear would attack because dog annoyed them but now realize dog could be sleeping in tent with the humans and bear might smell it and attack. They say don't have food in your tent and maybe it could be same thing with a dog in tent.
I live in Arizona, my wife and I went to Banff national park this passed June and stayed at the Fairmont Banff Springs. We had a blast , went on a lot of tours and some hikes where we saw a lot of wildlife but no bears. On one of our hikes it did occur to me that we did not have any bear spray and that whole hike I felt a rising feeling of dread. I didn’t feel better until we made it to the car.
Glad the feeling of dread was in this case unfounded. Even more glad to hear the experience seems to have reminded you to never enter grizzly country without a deterrent, bear spray being the deterrent everyone should carry. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@HomeInWildSpaces On the contrary, the feeling of dread in the forest, is your intuition engaging. There are other things in the forest that cause that "feeling of dread". Always, always, always listen to it and leave the area.
Not necessarily. But anxiety and measured fear do have a valuable role to play. They are mechanisms that enable us to identify and respond to danger. But they're not infallible, and often cause problems.@@bettybrooks6585
I don't think the debate is over regarding bear spray whatsoever. In fact the debate has just started. In several recent fatal bear encounters, The bear still had bear spray residue on its muzzle when they did the necropsy. I do agree with your advice to take all methods of deterrent but especially firearms. When you talk about the "data" being settled and "science" being settled, It reminds me of something I learned about scientific studies, and the data resulting from them. They're highly manipulable depending upon the conditions and methodology used. In 2019 (an updated in 2023) Outside magazine published an article entitled, "Does bear spray work?'. It points out some of the weaknesses in the studies done on bear spray. I personally think bear spray is a great deterrent in some circumstances but when things are really serious and there's a chance that the bear is going to actually make contact a firearm is the best way to go. Although I understand the point you were making about the possible danger posed by a dog, certain types of dogs can help fight bears off. I guess it depends on the breed of dog and how many you have, but being aware that a dog may attract the bear to you is really important information to talk about. Thanks for tackling a difficult subject with sensitivity towards the people killed and their family.
Your videos on bears are outstanding, and refreshingly accurate and no nonsense. I'm not an expert in the field but am a former NPS ranger and have avidly followed this topic for decades. It seems pretty clear that this unfortunate attack was predatory, as suggested by the age and condition of the sow, the time of year, the circumstance of being attacked in a tent at night, and the fact that the sow was still on site 5 hours later. I applaud Parks Canada for respecting the dignity of the deceased by not making that clear, but unfortunately many people have blamed the victims on social media. I suspect this attack would have happened regardless of the dog but we will never know. I'm an advocate of bear spray and look forward to your video on that topic.
Thank you so much for your comment and sharing your background! I agree with you. There is much we will never know about this attack, and I am saddened that Doug and Jenny have been so maligned. They don't deserve the vitriol. I take comfort in the fact that most people seem to want to learn from this tragedy and show Doug and Jenny respect in the process. I do not believe the loudest voices represent the majority. I'm looking forward to sharing my next video on the topic and hope you'll chime in again. Best wishes!
Only if you know what you are doing as a lot of idiots have accidents with their firearms in the back country. The idiots tend to carry a small caliber semiautomatic handgun which won't do much to a bear besides release all of its adrenaline into its bloodstream... Most people don't seem to understand that they need at least a 30 06 rifle, 45 cal handgun or 12 gauge pump shotgun with 00 buckshot or slugs to cause sufficient damage to the bear. Granted that the noise of these can be used to scare the bear if there is sufficient distance... Native Nations in Bear Country have trusted adults who know what they are doing, and they tend to carry rifles or 45 cal long barreled revolvers. Most importantly they know when not to use them...@@tarzanstrickland
I am a senior Canadian woman ... Well versed on riding my horses in Bear and cougar country. I have worked on Dude Ranches both near Durango , Co & Banff , Ab . I always carry bear spray and a Garmin for emergency . If I was over nighting it I would also be well guarded by an electric fence . Still , I am pleased that our National Parks uphold the banning of firearms ! In such a vast area. .there could be abusrs of all sorts concerning weapons , also it is in the fabric of our culture to be adverse to gun use ..bravo for that ... My struggle would be leaving my dog home , though i understand fully the "why" .
For the last 8 years especially, the Canadian government has been very good at covering stuff up, so don’t get your hopes up on getting further information. R.I.P. Doug, Jenny and pup.
I look forward to the bear spray/firearm video, as I’m sure many do. Outside Mag did a great follow-up piece (“Does Bear Spray Work?”) discussing bear spray efficacy and got clarification from Tom Smith on his studies. He mentions that the study on spray and the study on firearms were never meant to be compared. The numbers are completely different in scale. They dig into the numbers well and illustrate, if nothing else, the presumption that bear spray is inherently superior is a misrepresentation of the data. A misrepresentation that the public and wildlife officials both have taken at face value. In the end it doesn’t discount the efficacy of spray or guns but rather clarifies the data and illustrates that the two were completely different studies that were erroneously conflated. I hope you’ve had a chance to read it.
I have read that article and there will be some cross over in my coming video, but my video will go deeper and give practical applications missing from every other resource that I've seen or read on the topic of deterrents. Thanks so much for watching and commenting! I look forward to getting your feedback when my bear spray/firearm video becomes available.
The definition of an "experienced hiker" MUST include some experience self-rescuing in difficult situations, say even a freak thunderstorm, etc. SO many 'Adventures Gone Wrong' - type channels, where allegedly "highly experienced hikers" made multiple mistakes in a row, leading to their demise. They think their first order of protection is a Garmin device, and a gun, yet they often don't even have basic equipment or paper maps. I'm not blaming this couple- this is a terrible tragedy. But I don't understand why "experienced hikers" would take a DOG backpacking into known grizzly country in late fall! Or why the poor berry crop was unknown to them. Etc....... RIP.
Thank you so much for sharing your interpretation of events. I don’t plan to go to these places but I am fascinated with bear behavior. Based on what I’ve learned I am very suspicious of a predatory attack due to the sow’s age, but would love to see more details from the necropsy.
@@dingo9696 the park rangers are liars now? Bad teeth, approximately 25 year old female - that speaks to a desperate bear. The area has been impacted by a drought and there is low berry yield, further contributing to food scarcity. Do tell why you believe this is a lie.
My brother recently went on a solo camping trip to Yellowstone, he took bear spray. If I was doing the same trip I would have taken both spray and a handgun but because my brother is not proficient with a firearm I advised him not to take one. He would be more likely to accidentally hurt himself with the handgun than he would to be attacked by a bear.
I can’t fathom hiking way back into territory highly populated by grizzlies, like Banff, Yellowstone, and Glazier National Forest. The thought of sleeping in a tent and risking getting eaten alive is freaking scary! It’s like playing Russian roulette with your life.
What a truly awful situation, condolences to the family. Thanks so much for your analysis of the information we have so far. Hopefully we will get some more valuable details in future re spray state/deployment etc
My condolences to the family 😢. From what I’ve just seen, this was a surprise bear attack as the tent was flattened. Surely reaction time and protection went astray. We can speculate about a lot of things, but one thing for sure , there was fear and confusion in the last moments of these hikers. Quite a scary ending
Yes when the whole scenario potentially started with normal rules going out the window like that, very hard situation to then make a well executed effective defence. Terribly sad story
Amount of stories that have come from America, so many with people attacked in tents, the peeps gotta start using those electric fences, I am lucky I live in Australia and despite what some believe about our country we don't have any such land based animals that will attack you while sleeping unless you are silly enough to put a tent near a waterway... Such a simple thing and with advances in tech those fences are quick and easy to erect... man I would just make sure before I sleep that fence is up and running... those bears black or brown are just next level and deserve to be treated cautiously, they are top order predator, driven by instinct... I spent years reading into bears and stories of the like of Timothy Treadwell and what this man says on this channel with bear spray, firearms and electric fences are what I would be doing, even to the extent of risking getting into trouble for having a gun as I would not be out there without one.
I'm very impressed with your commentary and respect for the deceased. Your voice is compelling. Very good video. I'm American and asking if Canada allows guns in their national parks?❤
I’m a Canadian living in the Rockies and in grizzly country. No, you are not allowed guns in National Parks like Banff. I’ve spent 35 years hiking and backpacking in the parks. I’ve run into both black and grizzly bears and never had an issue. I personally am very thankful that we don’t allow guns in our parks. I’d be more worried about yahoos with guns in the backcountry than bears.
Thank you for asking the right questions. I hope Parks Canada releases more information based on the questions you ask, because this is truly important! As someone who lives not so far from Banff, and really wants to get into hiking, this is the information we need to know to keep ourselves safe!
For a few months there were stories of bears in many local newspapers in small towns on the Eastern side of the Rockies in Alberta. I would add to the conversation an insurable drought season destroying crops and likely berries (my hay field inclusive) as well as massive wildfire displacements as reasons why a lot of bears seemed “off” this fall. I imagine that when they displace that it’s a domino effect and there is also more bear on bear aggression. Our acreage suffered two bear attacks with the loss of livestock.
Exactly I'm thinking the same thing. There is more chance of bear attacks due to climate crisis, etc. The massive climate crisis wildfires are a huge disruption.
It seems likely that the attack happened in two stages . There would have been the initial attack where one or both victims were injured. The bear spray probably did its job and the bear retreated. Then the bear came back later. The victims may have been incapacitated dew to injuries or caught while their attention was focused on dealing with the aftermath of the initial attack. I'm pretty sure I heard there was more then one can of bear spray found at the scene. Only one was discharged. It may not have started as a predatory attack but it definitely ended as one.
Personally, I would never want to visit a place with bears!😮 Everybody’s different, but I’d rather stay home.😊 God bless and be safe and enjoy your outing . My condolenses for Dough, and wife .😢
Very informative video, I have watched all that is available on this story and this one is most educational and without the drama of misinformation. I just subscribed and will definitely be looking forward to your next video on this attack. Thanks for keeping it honest.
Welcome aboard! Looking forward to sharing more videos (without the drama and misinformation) so common on the internet. Looking forward to hear more from you!
I can see where bear spray could be effective in some situations, but I wouldn't stake my life - or the lives of my loved ones, on just one self-defense option. I had a friend some years ago who was a land surveyor in remote areas during the Alaska Pipeline project. He told me that some of the workers carried 12-gauge shotguns loaded with slugs and 0.44 magnum revolvers (as back-up) for bears. He also said they brought their revolvers in with them when visiting portable latrines, as the bears were known to push the latrines over sometimes while occupied! My sincerest sympathies for the families of this lovely couple who tragically lost their lives doing what they loved.
I live in Southwest Florida. We have Black Bears. Literally, everyone will visit national & state parks, everglades, fishing areas, alligator viewing areas, boardwalks & nature hikes, and all of the above without being armed with a walking stick, bear spray or firearms. We also have mountain lions. Some that can get quite large. Not quite like their northwestern cousins but large enough to take you down from behind. Seen them nab 90lb pet goats in their mouths, leap & bound away in seconds. Most Black Bears here are smaller, leaner, but we do have 200lb+ Bears walking around the neighborhoods and wild areas. I will not go into these areas anymore with a gun. Since most of my forays into the wild areas are spur of the moment. I will usually only carry my concealed pistol and fishing gear. I may grab a nice walking stick along the way. People are oblivious, and i used to be one of them until we started to see these bears walk right downtown on 5th Avenue. Where people are constantly lounging and walking during the day and a lot of people also visit at night. The bears have been spotted around midnight-1am when most people are gone. Someone is going to get mauled one night.
There's a very, very good chance Stuart Howe saw this bear and caught it on video. He was hiking in this area not long before the attack and saw a bear exhibiting strange aggressive behavior. It was also very small for that time of the year, which would explain the predatory behavior. The channel is called Howe's The Hike and it is the video is called The Clearwater-Red Deer Circuit. Bear can be seen at 58:56. In the videos comments he discusses the likelihood that this bear on the video was the bear in question.
Thank you! I just subscribed. I now know to TOSS my 7 year old bear spray. I have a healthy respect for grizzlies after spending 3 summers in the Alaskan interior. Your info was valuable.
Thank you for this commentary on the tragedy in Banff. Thank you also for not weaponizing it against Parks Canada's gun policy. I appreciate your thoughtful analysis of the available information. Hopefully we can learn how to prevent such a calamity in the future, but sometimes there is simply a confluence of circumstances that cannot be avoided... RIP
My pleasure. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughtful feedback. Many times bear attacks are best understood as the confluence of unfortunate circumstances. Circumstances replicated by thousands of other people from day to day, but which still rarely turn deadly. I have a philosophy that each bear attack is an opportunity to learn and prevent similar events in the future. Looking forward to sharing more in the future. Hope to hear from you again.
@@HomeInWildSpacesSadly, it's not just unfortunate circumstances. It's a collection of sometimes avoidable decisions, which may eventually snowball and get people into trouble. RIP to this couple.
In the news when this happened , we were told this was an unknown bear, not collared no tags, not known to the park rangers ! Also this was an older skinny female bear! The bear did not eat them,but was guarding their bodies! So I don’t know why you didn’t get that information ! When they shot the bear, it was acting aggressively ! AND this is a very dangerous time to hike or camp most anywhere! Bears are insanely hungry trying desperately to store their body fat so they can survive hibernation !! People don’t care! Let’s head our pet to the wilderness - it’ll be fun they said ! I live close to where this couple was killed, I would never ever camp in a tiny tent during this time of year! It doesn’t help if you know your way around, it matters that both black and grizzly bear, are showing less patience with each other and with humans - they are obsessed with one thing ; Eating !!
The reason we won't get the truth from parks Canada is that this story doesn't fit the narrative of all guns are bad. The government would rather see a few Canadians get eaten than give them permission to carry arms.
@@aaykay4060 Does it matter how rare they are if you're the one being attacked? People like you are mentally broken. You talk of rarity as if it matters. These 2 people were killed by a bear. How rare it is doesn't matter to them or their families.
Good vid. If a person doesn’t have the skills to use a gun, it most likely won’t work. If one gets attacked like that in a tent, it most likely won’t end well. I’ve seen where lots of Canadians use the fence
" _If a person doesn’t have the skills to use a gun, it most likely won’t work_ " Even if a person does have the skills, the circumstances may make the exercise of those skills difficult or impossible.
As a former guide, bears sometimes single a person out and come for you when adrenalized. They absorb a lot of lead, in that state, you need a large caliber that breaks bone at that point. Shot placement is difficult at best in a charging/attacking bear situation. They will back track, very dangers in the brush/woods. Smart too they associate rifle shots with food.
exactly. even experienced marksman being charge by a bear will have no chance, your adrenaline and fear takes over and you are shooting all over the place. nevermind you need a pretty major firearm to stop them with. good luck in that situation.
My pleasure. Doug and Jenny deserved a fact-based examination of their story. Very sad situation. I only hope people can learn from it. Thanks for watching!
The bear spray statistics are misleading, since there is no way to judge the bear's intent or degree of commitment to the attack. Most bear aggression manifests as mock charges or threat displays, there are many videos of these online. The weather or wind direction may not be conducive to a chemical spray, or the bear may be bound and determined. In these circumstances reliance on bear spray is ill-advised, even foolhardy. Are you willing to let your life depend on the bear's decision making? Not a bet I would make, in the final extremity a lethal defense should always be an option. Mounting an armed self-defense is every human being's inalienable right. Any government that abridges that right is overstepping its rightful authority.
You make a lot of good points. The inevitable problem of the "guns vs spray" argument is the either/or position of the respective advocates. It's not a serious discussion until people acknowledge that BOTH are necessary for best possible bear protection in the outback to defend against different scenarios, in addition to electric fences and other measures for extended trips. I do take exception to two different points made though. First is that he statistical data supporting bear spray as the be-all, end-all bear deterrent is highly subject to manipulation. There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. When the entity producing these stats has a certain agenda or pre-existing politically motivated bias, anyone who does a modicum of research with a scintilla of analytical ability can immediately poke holes in these studies. Second, meticulously following "bear protocols", which vary according to governance, is pointless when they also have their origins in politically motivated agendas. Having said all that, I personally usually hike with just bear spray if I even bring anything at all, but if I'd been on this kind of camping trip I'd have brought at least a couple of firearms as well. It's criminally negligent for the Canadian government to not allow people to defend themselves adequately in National Parks.
Sounds like you're definitely going to want to stay tuned for my next bear safety installment where we'll chat about everything you've mentioned here. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
@@pi-sx3mb It becomes part of a bigger issue regarding gun control and public safety. Obviously they are looking at the bigger picture. You don't have the right to arm yourself in Canada to protect yourself from people or bears
@@dougstewart3243 I agree with you that the primary issue here is gun control. Public safety - not so much (look to the U.S. policy of carry ability in National Parks as a template for that). It's the cloaking of POLITICAL AGENDA as PRINCIPLE that is objectionable. ANY liberty carries with it an inherent risk. We'd all be absolutely safe with zero freedoms. The overriding story behind all of this that always get tip-toed around is that it's no secret the Canadian government is one of the most restrictive so-called "free" societies when it comes to firearms. If we're going to embrace the principle of keeping people safe, then close down public access to Banff. If we're going to embrace the principle of freedom, then allow people the ability to pursue that with the inherent risk associated with it and the concomitant ability to protect themselves. But let's not confuse the two.
This is just one of the many risks of participating in wilderness activities. Much less in the fall, when bears are gathering food for winter in the Canadian Rockies. They were only two people, Banff recommends 6 or more when hiking/camping in bear country. Dogs attract other predatory animals. Sounds like they actually weren’t that educated in bear safety if this was a surprise to them they were attacked. The bear lost its life as well, just being a wild animal in its territory, now that’s tragic. You can’t carry firearms in provincial or national parks in Canada. In my firearms course they said good luck getting a shot off in time if a bear is attacking you, many hunters are mauled by bears.
We carry bear spray when we hunt for moose/elk in Northwestern Alberta. We are observing an explosion in the grizzly bear population in the area that we hunt. In the past 2 years we have closely encountered incredible quantities of bear scat and direct sightings of 2 males and 2 sows with 3 cubs each. We observed this quantity after spending a net total of only 3 weeks in the area. Grizzlies remain on the endangered list despite no longer being actually endangered. Prior to this I had only ever seen one Grizzly while hunting my whole life. This is a dramatic change which has triggered us to consider bear safety with substantially heightened priority in our hunting practices.
Thank you for doing your research and telling the truth of their story I have watched a few videos regarding this attack which were just basically lies made to sound more theatrical and to entertain this is truly a tragedy thank you for being respectful to the victims and their families.
I have 30+ trips into the wilderness of Northern Ontario. A few years back the outlawed spring bear hunting and the population exploded. After a bad experience with a black bear we changed our location and started setting up an electric fence. We have had two times when we know the fence kept bears out of out camp during the day while we were fishing. This past late September we went to the Canadian Rockies and spent a week tent camping. Even though at times there were other campers around we always had bear spray in the tent and the fence was up. I'm not sure how a backpacker can carry a fence but if we ventured off the beaten path I can promise we would figure it out 🙂
Good point. We have legal bear hunting in our state but it's not a small expense especially on top of deer, fishing, etc. permits. Plus seems you need the right firearms to hunt bears and other special things. I don't really know how many people actually hunt them anymore, hunting seems to have declined in general because the kids just play video games and stay on their phones all the time, and the black bears come into town and eat out of dumpsters etc. So seems a not insignificant number might lose their fear of humans. This alone makes realize a bear fence is a necessity not an option.
The biggest problem with bear spray is that it is a short range weapon a very short range weapon 8 to10 yards if you are lucky! I had a close call while visiting a friends camp ground with my kids when a big male black bear decided to jump in the garbage bin that my van was parked beside with my kids in it with the windows rolled half way down when i was in his store. some lady yelled in the store "there is a bear by the kids" my friend Doc grabbed a can of bear spray and we both ran out the store and ran at the bear that was standing upright on the garbage bin next to my van standing his ground. Doc tried to spray the bear but we were getting more of the spray than the bear was so i started throwing rocks at it. It didn't like the rocks to much and decided to scramble up a tree next to the garbage bin and huff and puff and nash his teeth together at us. while Doc kept trying to spray the bear i got the windows rolled up in the van and managed to grab a .22 cal pellet pistol from my gear and shot that bear right in the nose. it hit the ground running and took off in the bush. That bear was shot a week later with permision from parks staff by another family camp ground operator. from my experience a .22 cal pellet gun or a rock works better than bear spray on a windy day.
I don't understand why he is saying we don't know if the two victims deployed bear spray--it was reported they emptied out their bear spray canister. Clearly this is a situation where bear spray was not effective because the bear was intent on eating. Why would an extra can make a difference??
I think a lot of inexperienced hikers assume grizzlies and black bears are similar or that a grizzly is just bigger. They are very different animals with very different personalities and reactions to humans. Bear spray is an absolute must carry anywhere there are grizzlies. Thanks for this great video!
Part of the issue in Banff is the province bordering it, British Columbia (where I am from), outlawed Grizzly hunts a few years back. Now there is a surplus of Grizzlies with no predators.
You have made an excellent point here. If I am understanding you correctly, poor wildlife management is causing a surplus of starving, unhealthy bears? (I am assuming you meant no prey)
I meant no predators to keep the number of grizzlies reasonable. Humans are grizzly predators. Nothing else kills them. Wildlife management is causing a surplus, and the prey animals of the grizzly are being dwindled down as a result.
Also, people hike/camp in the feeding territory of apex predators. (Does Banff really have a surplus though? How is that defined, relative to just enough or not enough? )
Similar incident in Alaska in 2005. The Huffman’s had a .45-70, lever-action CoPilot rifle in the tent, a rifle specifically designed for bear protection in Alaska, but were unable to use it. An investigation revealed Richard appeared to have pulled down the lever on the rifle to put a cartridge into the chamber but died or was seriously injured before he could bring the firearm into play, Jonathon Waterman later wrote in National Geographic Adventure magazine.
I know that we are supposed to keep our rifles and ammunition separate however in wilderness I was told to keep my rifle loaded. Thankfully it was not needed.
It doesn't seem like either a gun or bear spray can help when asleep or otherwise vulnerable in a tent. Even if cartridge loaded, unlikely to get off a shot after bear has already grabbed or mauled the person. Seems must have someone on watch or electric fence or some kind of effective warning system.
Arguing that to carry a gun for personal protection in known bear country is not 'politics'....a gun is just one more tool in the toolbox of a prepared traveler. Which tool will be most effective in a given situation will depend on all the unique variables of each encounter.
I think you'll find that I am not arguing that carrying a gun for personal protection is "politics". In fact I state clearly that "the right gun in the right hands is an extremely effective tool." My "politics" statement refers to people who either use tragedy to argue a false dichotomy (gun OR bear spray), or who argue falsely that bear spray doesn't work, or those who want to make this tragedy about guns and nothing else. Those arguments are all false and a waste of everyone's time. There is more to the conversation than gun/no gun and Doug and Jenny deserve better.
The fact you can't bring a rifle, for protection, into a national park, is criminal. I would never feel 100% safe with only bear spray as the only form of protection. This is why I don't go camping in National Parks.
Oh my god! It’s insane. Americans can take their guns to the malls but not into the wilderness. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the ‘right to bear arms’ about protecting oneself in the wilderness? This is why the rest of the world thinks the US is seriously messed up. Can’t take a gun into wilderness, But kids killing kids in schools with guns is veiled as a ‘cost’ of the ‘right to bear arms’. Do you see the ludicrousness of this? No-one in Australian own a gun unless they can prove it’s needed eg farmer. Yes we have a-holes who illegally get guns, but they just shot each other. Guns are not an accepted and tolerated part of life. Guns are not in your average family home. Most people have never even seen one.
I would anyway f*** these wacky gun laws. Communists laws. I renewed my pal way back in last February, but I still haven't got it. Its a total joke. Almost time to move to America Canada sucks now after turdo took over
Thank you for this video. I hike throughout BC and into the Rockies, including Banff. The statistics I've seen (there's a list on Wikipedia) indicate fewer than 2 deaths from all types of bears throughout North America. I always say that the most dangerous part of the trip is the car trip to the trailhead. Nonetheless, I'll trade in my bear spray canister for a new one before my next trip, as it's at least 4 years old. I've never needed to pull out the bear spray in almost 20 years of backcountry adventures. My grizzly sightings have always been at a distance, but I've seen evidence that they aren't far, such as scat and diggings.
Thanks! Sounds like our experiences have been very similar. I've been exploring grizzly country for decades and have never had to use a deterrent. Came close once when my wife and I stumbled upon a grizzly on a kill in the late evening. Bear spray was already in my hand with the safety off, but I'll forever be grateful I didn't have to use it. That seems to be the nature of backcountry adventure. Chances are you'll be ok, but you definitely want to make sure you're prepared. None of us knows when we might need to fend of an aggressive bear. Best wishes! Hoping to hear more from you in the future!
Very sad. However as a life long resident of Alberta n a hunter/hiker I’ve had my encounters with grizzlies. Someone seems to always get killed every year or so by bears. But the sheer amount of people in the parks and foothills areas habituate bears in these areas to people.
Cows kill and severely injure far more people in N.A. than bears. In fact in Banff Townsite you are far more likely to be killed by an Elk. But no videos on dangerous cows or pepper spray against Elk. Why not? Regarding bear attacks MUST READ (if anyone does anymore) Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance Paperback (2003) Stephen Herrero
I understand that you intend a definitive episode concerning bear spray vs firearms. I anticipate that it may favor bear spray. I am an advocate of bear spray. I am also an advocate of firearms. If bear spray is the best defense against bear attacks, why do almost all guides and wildlife control personnel in Alaska carry large caliber firearms? I believe there is a case for both.
Thanks for commenting. I would say that I favor the proper use of the proper tool. I can't speak to the mindset of guides in Alaska and were I in the Alaska backcountry I wouldn't only carry a gun, but I'd make sure that I was thoroughly proficient with it. I'll discuss in greater detail in my upcoming video on the topic. Stay tuned.
My daughter and her boyfriend went to Yellowstone on their first hiking trip. I bought them Bear Spray and insisted they have where they could retrieve it quickly; not buried in their backpack. I’m so sorry for what happened to these seasoned hikers. You brought up alot of interesting perspectives. I am a gun enthusiast but I believe it should be that last resort. I didn’t know about some of the things you mentioned ie Bear fence. Please keep educating everyone. What more have I not heard of that I could pass on to my adventurous family. Ty Franci
Bless you for insisting they properly carry bear spray! The world needs more people like you. So glad you learned something from this video! I’m currently working on the holy grail of bear safety videos. Guns vs bear spray: the final word. I think you’ll find it very enlightening. I’ve honest not found many online resources that handle the discussion responsibly and am looking forward to hopefully setting the record straight.
Every year I hunt outside of Yellowstone in Wyoming. There is a large concentration of grizz in the units we hunt. Every person in our group carries bear spray, bear bang canisters and a semi-auto pistol with hardcast bear rounds. Its always better to have a backup for your backup in a worse case scenario. Due to pushback from eco groups the grizz population has exploded and there is no way to manage their numbers as they are the apex predator. This unfortunately leads to starvation which ultimately leads to predation . Anyone who doesnt or hasnt interjected themselves into "food chain" doesn't understand a certain amount of land can only carry a specific number of animals predatory or non predatory. This is the reason that humans or pets become food and this is why they will push into neighborhoods or landfills. Grizzlies, wolves, coyotes etc.. all need to managed to limit or negate some of these interactions.
You bring up a lot of good points and it sounds like you'll very much want to watch my upcoming video on deterrents. Management is tricky. the amount of natural resources has diminished and most of these animals on the landscape were nearly eliminated from the landscape with decades of absence before numbers have begun recovering. Finding that right balance on the landscape is complicated. If predation on humans is the primary indicator of starving bears overpopulating an area, then there's not much evidence of over population. I think the last predatory attack in greater Yellowstone was in 2015, within the park. Almost every other attack was defensive or when a bear challenged hunters for their kill. Starving or well-fed this is standard grizzly behavior. They make their living challenging wolves, and other bears for their kill. It's an important conversation that is certain to continue as grizzlies repopulate their historic range. Thanks for sharing you advice and experience! Sounds like you and your buddies have done your homework.
Thanks for this video, I understand parks Canada does not want to speculate but they can share facts , I had same questions in mind, if there was any evidence that bear was sprayed? how many sprays they had ? How old the spray was? There must be evidence and details? Which should be shared with other backcountry user. I believe it can be done respectfully. I am really thankful that you shared your thoughts so respectfully. We need more people like you on you tube . Regards 🙏
You're very kind. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. It's a difficult balance. Bear attacks are precious opportunities to learn, but there's no benefit from maligning the victims. It's best to try and use the event to try and respectfully help others avoid a similar fate. More to come. I hope to hear from you again!
Strange how the government tells us that bear spray is more than sufficient while authorities are armed with firearms and used them to save their own lives when they encountered the same bear. 🤦♂️
The authorities are there to deal with a dangerous Bear, that’s why they would have a large caliber firearm with them. Nobody is going to be able to dispense a Bear with Bear Spray. That is not it’s intended purpose in that situation. They would probably carry Bear Spray but they would never use it to put down/ kill a Bear.
It's not strange at all, except for conspiracy theorists. And it's not government that's telling us bear spray is effective (actually more effective than firearms) but plenty of independent studies. paddlefar has answered your question. The park authorities weren't on a hike, they were there in part to deal with a dangerous bear.
That's the point of this comment. When they suspected there was a dangerous bear they brought along a firearm and did not spray it first. Citizens aren't allowed that choice. Only government workers allowed into the backcountry with firearms when dangerous bears are suspected to be in the area. @@istvanglock7445
Dog presence greatly increases chance of humans being attacked. We religiously employ dual electric bear wires as early warning systems. They only weigh a few pounds. Always have two bear sprays per person...out and on person. Spares in packs. ALWAYS have 10mm Glock G40 per person, plus Mossberg Shockwave 12 ga magazine version with slugs for longer warning scenarios. These defensive tools are always in addition to our elk/moose rifles. We travel heavy, but return home each trip. Grizzles are professional killers. Never in anti-gun Canada...not worth the threat....from bears as well as government.
In the national parks, wildlife is more important than humans. If people can’t deal with that, they shouldn’t go there. Plenty of places to hike and camp outside of the national/provincial parks. Bottom line, humans are the most dangerous predators and giving wildlife a chance to thrive as a priority in a few select spaces is the least we can do.
Last fall, while in the Bob Marshall NF, I setup a flash bang enabled perimeter around the tents, our doors was hung ~150 yards away, my handgun was with me 100% of the time and bear spray within reach. The Garmin inReach was with me as well. If encountered by a bear, my first response was to draw my handgun, the spray would have been a backup.
It was a rainy evening with light snow at higher elevations. Was the female bear stocking them for a while or just stumbled upon their tent in heavier rain, where their scent couldn't be carried far away. Dog most likely barked inside of the tent, and bear jumped on it. Would pinesoil cleaning detergent keep bear at larger distance? Apparently they do not like that scent, I did tested on black bear that used to show up regularly at our previous home in greater Vancouver, dog was making him more agitated, we have Brittany hunting dog, not a good idea, especially close to grizzly. Since we now live very close to Banff and Kanannaskis' I am very interested in all the details' but Parks Canada are keeping it under "X files" status. Even if they had rifle, at the moment when 400lbs plus grizzly gets in your tent, while you are reading a E book, it is a game over. Speed, panic, darkness, rain. ...
No. Bear spray is approximately 98% effective. That includes known environmental variables. Wind affects aim and distance. Heavy rain or snow affect long term potency. A bear might get sprayed, but then benefit from rain washing the spray away. This would still take substantial time, but if you’re camped and stationary, it’s something to consider. A bear might come back. I’ll cover bear spray and firearms in depth in my next full length video.
🌲🐻🌲Welcome everyone to the conversation! This is a perfect place to ask questions, and receive answers (though of variable reliability). I try to answer when I can so if you have something you'd like to discuss or an outstanding question, please share. But please keep the conversation respectful. I've already deleted about 40 comments because of a remarkable and inexcusable level of vitriol. I've permitted some comments insulting me to remain. This is my prerogative. Sometimes I see value in responding to unreasonable comments if only to provide a valuable response to misinformation. Please remember that my bear attack videos are designed to inform and keep people safe. Please join me in that endeavor by having a quality discussion. Thanks!!! 🌲🐻🌲
Thank you for your take on this incident. I wanted to ask about camping in bear country. Something that really jumps out to me in some of these stories is people going to sleep with nothing but a flimsy tent to protect them. Is this not inherently unsafe? I suppose a ditched and staked enclosure like a Roman marching camp might be overdoing it a bit. But it seems to me like people are just rolling the dice, hoping the bears don't try to eat them while they're sleeping. Why isn't it standard practice to take turns sleeping, and make sure there's always someone awake to watch for bears? Then again, my only experience with bears is seeing a polar bear in the zoo, so I don't know what I'm talking about.
Good questions. In truth bears for the most part are not out there waiting to pounce. Sometimes the stars align and for whatever reason bears harm people. It's true that a tent doesn't offer much shelter from a curious or aggressive grizzly, and while there is some vulnerability to an attack while in a tent, bears are generally quite good at avoiding conflicts. However, it's clear some bears do represent a threat. That's why people who camp in grizzly country ought to give serious consideration to using an electrified portable fence. These are specifically intended to serve as a hard barrier to bears that might get too close and they are very effective. Knowledge is power as they say. It take some education to learn to safely enjoy grizzly country, but people do it successfully all the time. We just tend to hear about the tragedies and not the successes. I hope that helps! @@neuralnetwork17
@@HomeInWildSpacesthe fences do seem very worth investigation. Is this the kind of thing used commonly in polar bear country? So presumably they also cope well with very heavy/snowy weather? Thanks
Few good points here, the dog is one thing that freaks bears out. I was on pack trip once in northern Montana with a big mean Shepard, this moose turns up in camp and followed us for three days. The bear spray thing is a joke, you know how many people have been killed with only having bear spray. A firearm will only work in the hands of a gunslinger that can use it. The sad thing is when you bring a bear to a gun fight the bear loses every time. There is no turning back. I also think bears are territorial they will attack if you are on their turf. I have seen signs of this in Alaska. You know what you call a Canadian in the wilderness with no firearm ‘bear food”.
1. Bear Spray does not work on ADRENALIZED BEARS. 2. I invite you to IGNORE anyone that says a 12 ga with slugs is not a GOOD Answer. Sometimes am ambush will be fatal no matter what you do. A 12 ga deploys faster and harder than Bear Spray. 3. If your going in Bear Country without a firearm, that seems foolish. Non-firearms need be Viking style striking weapons including stout spears.. I don't know you but suggesting that Parks Canada has a monopoly on wisdom suggests to me you are pandering to authority, my opinion. In my opinion for bears or otherwise, the capacity to repel hostile actors is always necessary to keep your loved ones from mourning you thereafter. AMBUSHES will kill you true, but that does not mean you dont prepare for the worst. 4. Dogs - unless you have a Karelian Bear Dog or other Laika breeds, you need 2 or more if they are for safety. Lacking that, dont take your Jack Russell. 5. All your advice aside one fact stands out. ALL THREE ARE DEAD FOREVER.!!! Your advice is no comfort, rather it seems to me to be a denial of the drive to preserve life. Hos long have you lived in the bush - it seems not evident to me.???
Your anti-gun bias is not that subtle. The simple fact they got off a msg says there was time enuf to deter this bear(s) with even the most rudimentary Bear Gun(12 ga double bbl). These people are DEAD, and you lead everyone on with how rare and unusual this MIGHT be. Humans are trespassers in Bear Country, behaving as such might save lives. Your thrust here seems to be "Everything is OK, dont worry about bears and dont think for yourself" Considering They had a stale and partial can of bear spray ONLY says they were less than meticulous, and for that paid that NEITHER survived. I find your analysis, superficial and pandering. Too many errors in their trip and your analysis leave me biting my tongue, so I leave before it gives you a good lashing. Unless you take a pair of Karelian Bear Dogs or Laika's, your dog is bait for bears.
I think you have incorrectly interpreted the video. No where do I state or suggest that "Parks Canada has the monopoly on wisdom." It's also not my intent to comfort, but rather to prevent similar tragedies. I think you'll find that all your questions and critiques will be answered in my upcoming video on guns vs bear spray and subsequent bear attack deconstruction videos. Best wishes!
The thing I always find uncomfortable is all resources saying bear attacks are “rare” not much of the population lives in grizzly country and even fewer of those people go into the wilderness to encounter bears government agencies calling bear attacks rare might be a bit reckless and gives people a false sense of security
Two dogs not one. One will bring in a bear, moose. Two dogs saved our lives so many times living n between two parks and lots of grizzlies. As a trapper. In the SE BC.
It was the dog bro...Its always the dog. Just like alligator attacks in Florida. There's almost always a dog involved. Leave the pets at home on hikes.
I always carry a gun into the wilderness (legal or not), but I take that chance in protection of my life from other humans, not animals. I am far more concerned with shady characters out there than I am wildlife. I also carry bear spray, and that is what I would use first. There is no 100% guarantee of protection against anything, and I agree that experience isn't a guarantee. Plenty of "expert" mountaineers, hikers, and backcountry adventurers have lost their lives.
I feel like there’s zero reason for you to mention “if Doug and Jenny were proficient in the use of firearms”. You have already noted they appeared to be well prepared and appeared to do all the right things before and during the trip. Do you not think they would’ve made themselves proficient in the use of a firearm if it was allowed and they made a decision to bring one or more firearms on the trip? Would it have made a difference? We’ll never know. Does it make sense to have more than 1 option to actively defend yourself? Absolutely.
Border collie. She might have tried to herd the bear. But she also would have died defending her owners if they were attacked It would be interesting to ask the family if the dog slept inside or outside the tent.
There's no way a bear would catch a border collie. That dog died trying to help it's owners. Even my german Shephard is fast enough to bark at bears and not get hurt, my sisters hound will actually chase them off while the german Shephard just stands it's ground.
I live in Canmore and wildlife encounters are extremely frequent especially when in the back country, bear sightings are also pretty high, you have to assume you will run into a Grizzly. Multiple bear managment items/strategies are a must, one option of protection is not good enough, redundancy is your best friend. On the dogs issue I have come to accept because of our deep connection with dogs, even experienced outdoorsman will forgo this advice in favour of bringing their dog along. I don’t have a solution nor will I pretend I haven’t done the same, it’s just an observation I have on that matter. What a horrible way to go, thoughts out to the victims families.
Did you notice how the rescue team (trained professionals) didn't use bear spray on the bear? I think they know what's more effective and protects their team better
Your point is a popular, but none the less based on falsehood. The animal attack response team was specifically entering the area with the expectation that they would likely have to euthanize the bear. This is fundamentally different than people entering the back country with bear spray who only need to deter a bear, not remove it from the population. Different tools, for different purposes. Has nothing to do with which is more effective.
@@HomeInWildSpaces Finding two dead people has nothing to do with their decision? Just because a bear shows aggression towards humans isn't enough of a reason to euthanize a bear. That's the very reason for bear spray, it's expected a bear may be aggressive but instead of killing it the idea is to deter it
They knew an attack had occurred, that two people were unaccounted for and a grizzly bear was threatening them. Whether they found Doug and Jenny before or after shooting the bear is immaterial. They had a job to do, and this bear was unusually aggressive and interfering with aiding or investigating. Bears typically aren’t aggressive toward people. Typically they avoid people. I repeat my initial response: The mission of the response team is fundamentally different than recreational visitors. They brought guns because they knew there was a high likelihood that a bear would need to be removed from the population. That would have been true whether Doug and Jenny were alive or dead.
I'm in Australia and I don't understand why you wouldn't go into bear country without bear spray AND a gun - and be proficiently trained in both. The electric tent fence seems like a mandatory measure, as well.
Great video... the fact is that people DIE at Disney like amusement parks... the wilderness is not Disneyland... if there were no RISKS, then why go? This couple were aware of the risks and chose to go into the wild. If you want to be absolutely SAFE... stay home...
Thanks! You bring up some very good points. The wilderness is not a childproofed or sanitized area. Especially in the remote backcountry. There are risks inherent to entering these areas.
This is truly the most considered, measured and intelligent commentary on bear attacks that I have seen. I also greatly appreciate the respectful manner demonstrated to the victims of this attack.
You are very kind. I've been bothered at the lack of informed, respectful commentary. I hope that this and other videos will help sort through the internet's vitriol and bull and gain a sound understanding of these amazing but powerful animals and why they sometimes attack.
Thanks so much for your support! More to come.
Finally somebody who addresses the dog issue. Not saying it was the cause here but might have been a contributing factor.
It was a contributing factor. Google brown bear attacks in North America. Or just research TH-cam for bear attack survivors. Countless dogs have been deathed by brown bears over the years. They annoy the hell out of bears.
Some bears HATE dogs. If that bear was just snooping around and the dog started barking it may have irritated the bear to the point of 'collapsing the tent' with everything escalating from there.
Best policy is to take the risk off the table and leave the dog at home.
@@994pt4 Exactly my point.
I agree. I recently was dog-sitting. This was the dog in the car when he saw a herd of elk. He went completely nuts. th-cam.com/users/shortsfGvlYgmOF0M
It's a critical aspect of bear safety, but one that is not well understood by many. Thanks for contributing to the conversation!
With over 50 years of experience in the backcountry, I learned a long time ago to not bet your life on one solution. I carry spray, and firearms. I also have an electric fence that I use when truck camping. I travel with a dog. All four are assets, but all four require some sense and management. I've had many tense encounters with wildlife, including bears over the decades. To say that such encounters are rare is a primary reason that less experienced backcountry travelers get into trouble. They don't think they have to take the threat seriously. Among people who spend a lot of time out there, theses encounters are not so rare, but most encounters that are a close miss never get reported or counted. Even most shootings go unreported. Then someone is killed, and all the "this is so rare" commentators come out. You notice that the response team was armed. Imagine that. I've had close calls with both black bears and grizzlies, as well as javelina, coyotes, raccoons and skunks, all of which were extremely aggressive. Some definitely influenced by the dog. One thing that never ever ever gets mentioned is that mensurating women or animals are at extremely increased risk, for obvious reasons. Yep, it's rare,...till it happens to you.
Very true. I am not even particularly 'outdoorsy' and I have had bear and mountain lion encounters over the years.
Certainly not 'rare' and definitely unreported.
You forgot the most important thing, Canada, like some US states, have anti-hunters in the Parks Dept's and the DNR Dept's. Also, anyone is clueless if they haven't been paying attention to the locals in Canada discussing they're bear populations have increased dramatically because of less bears being taken during bear hunting seasons because of less bear hunters. And thanks to Trudeau, Canada is consficating more firearms from their law abiding citizens of Canada.
I know a famous doctor of bears who is also an author who has said there is no connection between menstruating women and bear attacks. He's written several books on the topic of bear attacks. Also. Just the other day I watched a show where it was mentioned that the woman in the man went out together for a back country trip and it is believed that the initial attack started because she was menstruating. I know that polar bears are particularly interested and pursue the smell of menstrual blood, but I did not think it was the same with grizzlies until now. It does make sense though that as strong as their sense of smell is 10 times of a bloodhound that that could be it contributing factor in an attack. Thank you for bringing that up. Women have to be aware
@@eveslady100 I don't think it matters what the source of the blood is. The smell of blood is an indicator that an animal is probably injured, and may be easy prey. Every predator on earth responds to it. I don't want too get too graphic, but women camping during their cycle will be discarding feminine products, as well as the scent on their body. They may unwittingly be laying down a trail right to them. It is an issue that women should be aware of. If the timing can't be avoided, at least be very careful about hygiene, and burn any waste that you produce. Don't bury it or carry it around with you. I hope your travels are safe!
@@eveslady100Unless the doctor is also a bear expert and has access to specific studies regarding period blood and bear attraction, then the fact that he/she is a doctor is meaningless. I'll share a personal anecdote that solidified, for me, that bears are indeed attracted to period blood. I lived in North Vancouver for a number of years, a five minute walk from the Grouse Mountain gondola. Big time bear country despite the significant amount of houses and presence of people. Black bears were spotted on my street at least monthly. I've had a handful of close calls with bears on my own front walk. We had a bear-proof shed-type container to place our garbage in. It survived many attacks. One day, however, a particularly large and aggressive bear lifted the whole shed up and smashed it on the ground, emptying the bags of garbage everywhere. On the morning when we ventured outside to inspect, there was only one bag that was torn open. That bag was the one from our bathroom. Know what contents were missing from that bag? A handful of spoiled maxi-pads from my wife's period. You can believe what you want to believe but to me, after that experience, tells me that first, bears can smell period blood, even through a taped up odor-defeating maxi-pads, that were in a smaller plastic bag, placed into a larger plastic bag, both tied and stored inside a black plastic garbage can, which itself was stored inside a locked garbage shed. The second thing that became clear is that a bear associates the period smell with food and is willing to investigate and exert significant effort to get to the source of the period blood smell. Would a woman having her period be at greater risk of being attacked? My experience doesn't conclusively prove yes or no, as who knows if a bear would risk attacking a human just to investigate that smell. However, it is a risk I no longer take.
I'm a gun guy and I don't think this should be used as an opportunity to push carrying guns. Not everyone is comfortable nor competent with firearms and that can be a deadly combination itself.
I very much agree. Thanks for your comment!
The macro question is ultimately can u physically stop a charging one thousand pound grizzly bear coming straight for u whether it's a charging mother grizzly bear who has a crazy adrenaline dump going throughout its whole body coming to kill the threat against her cubs or an older predator bear that is coming for a meal starving to death and hungry where ur only defense is the open scenery and trees where u irrefutablely can't outrun that bear for the life of u..
But it's ur life on the line in this unequivocal possible death scenario with a can of bear spray in ur hand that might stop the bear in the mentioned above situations whereas a 12 gage shotgun or handgun will definitely stop that bead..
People who are not educated on guns should go take lessons while diligently understanding and knowing how to use them when they go into bear country unless they don't care about their lives or suicidal ideations..
Some people might think a bear's life is more important vs a human life but the bottom line is making the right choice or take the gamble with a thousand pound grizzly bear who has weapons that can kill u in seconds..
@@jamiecrawford7220 I’m advocating for people to train with their guns, idk what point you were trying to make in your word vomit
They are Not allowed in Canadian Parks
@@margysfavourites8444 which is stupid but hey ho leafs are cringe
I’m here to learn, not critique-carry on! I’m listening/looking and learning. Thank you.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching! Much more to come.
I was bluff charged by a mother grizzly in Kananskis on 2017 (on the way up Mt. Allan if anyone is interested, however bears can be encountered anywhere.) I agree with your final comment that Doug and Jenny were severely disadvantaged by being attacked when they were relaxing in their tent, and possibly even asleep. The fact that people are blaming them and speculating when they were in that prone and extremely vulnerable position when attacked is disgusting to be honest. My awareness of the situation and ability to stand and face the bear fully alert with my bear spray in hand, as well as the good luck of her choosing not to attack me in the end, are likely what saved me that day. Not any special competence or experience.
I celebrate your clear thinking an analysis of your own encounter. Thanks so much for sharing!
😢this is such a sad video about Doug and Jennie. Im so sorry for them and their family and friends. Once again ive learned alot from this channel!! Thank you so much.
We also know that they were delayed. If they set up camp in the dark it is possible they missed signs of bear activity, such as scat, damaged trees, or even a nearby bedding area.
Not likely. They set up camp around 4 - 5 pm. Sun sets around 6 - 7 pm in that region at the end of September.
@@Kat-ic9yk The final message is "we're delayed, but everything is okay." This could have been sent from the trail. We just don't know, I guess! The park service should really be providing some information and analysis.
So my intuition is that they were delayed on the trail and realized "we've got to get a message out now so they don't worry about us...." They arrived at camp in the dark without realizing there was a bear nearby. Bear shows up shortly after and attacks the folk impinging on her territory. We'll see! The parks service surely will provide more information soon for the benefit of all hikers. This kind of information could save lives.
there is bear activity in the area, everywhere and at all times where they hiked. they camped at an approved camp site in the park. had they moved on 1 or 2 km's past the camp, they would still have been around bear activity. it's not avoidable in the Banff backcountry.
@@thecount1001 I meant directly within a few yards of an area a bear had started inhabiting. My understanding is that they do make nests. I saw a video on YT from Stan Mills describing how bears regularly use trails that pass by designated camp sites in Yosemite. An older female bear that is being harassed by males might decide to try to set up camp where the humans were spending time, especially if the camp had not been used recently. We need more information!
We were camping in the same valley the week prior to this tragedy. I appreciate your honest, intelligent and respectful discussion regarding the events, thank you.
I understand that Parks Canada wants to protect personal information and respect the families, and rightfully so, but lessons learned from this tragedy might save lives in the future. Difficult choices either way.
Their names were public in the papers by the next day! They are in the same town I live in, even their Dogs name was written, in most things i Could find which was a lot, since they were well know here, and friends and family was on tv to tell their story in regards to this incident !
Thanks so much for watching and for you kind feedback. It is a difficult choice, and Doug and Jenny have been maligned online by clueless trolls. Who would want their loved one to be assailed after suffering such a terrible fate?
But, you are right. Details and informed analysis save lives. The better we understand this attack, the better able we are to learn from it and prevent similar tragedies. It's the proverbial rock and a hard place.
Thanks so much again for chiming in and contributing to the respectful and informed discussion!
It is a must to do things; to inform the public. Unfortunately, people in offices are scared of lawsuits and will never tell us what really happened.
I am not sure why Canada seems to have such a problem with allowing people to defend themselves... We are always supposed to call and wait for someone else to show up with a firearm to help. With the current pretty far left liberal government, they have been more hellbent than ever before on taking away licensed, legal firearms from Canadians, so I don't see the issue of protecting ones self in the wilderness getting any better until a new government gets in power and first reverses the damage done to licensed, legal firearms by the current leadership... after that, maybe they can look more into the idea of wilderness carry. Its written in the law, but no provincial firearms office lets it be used beyond a handful of special people. I think they should allow wilderness carry of a sidearm, for licensed firearms owners that have taken an extra course for carrying a side arm for wilderness protection.... and make it so there is a minimum caliber... a 22 or 9 mm handgun isnt going to help very much during an attack. Its better than nothing, but it should be relegated to revolvers over .357 in size, or semi-autos such as 10 mm or larger, and for women it should be the largest caliber they can confidently use... I see no real issue with this as I don't think there will be a problem of licensed, trained and approved citizens carrying a sidearm in remote wilderness just so they can walk with a limp acting "thuggish" ... it is completely practical and if you ask people in Alaska, they think Canada is nuts for not allowing its civilians to carry a sidearm in the wild.
Carrying a shotgun or rifle on your back is just not very practical for many people exploring and adventuring in the wilderness. A sidearm on the hip is much more out of the way and more likely for people to actually bring with them. I know I would be more tempted to put on a belt than to throw a 6 pound long gun over my shoulder. I was fly fishing in B.C a few years ago and its quite dangerous because the sound of the river water drowns out alot of forest sounds... A bear could easily get very close without knowing it.... and if I had to carry a shotgun with me, it would end up sitting on a rock or on the bank because it gets in the way of fishing.... but a revolver on the hip would stay there the whole time. At the very least, there should be the option for people to choose what they want to carry... whether it be mace, a shotgun, or revolver... I think in a perfect world I would have bear mace on one hip and a revolver on the other. That would truly be your best odds possible in an attack encounter. Use the mace first if there is time... or the revolver if its a charge. The same week we were in BC fishing, a young girl was attacked a few KM from where we were fishing. I believe she passed away from it.... Was a real wake up call, and got me thinking how unfair our government can be when it comes to preservation of your own life.
I realize asking the government to use some common sense is asking a bit too much, but this is my opinion anyways. Be safe out there for everyone venturing into the wild.
This is a very thoughtful and well-informed video. Thanks for making it. Like a few other commentators, I have many, many years of experience behind me, backpacking, camping, hunting, and fishing in bear country. I studied bear behavior at university as a student, which I think has positively informed my experience of wilderness recreation in Alberta, Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico over the years. I have had hundreds of safe interactions and sightings of bears, with a goodly number of close “encounters” with bears that turned out well. I have used both bear spray and a firearm (not lethally) to deter bears on two occasions, once each. I have also hunted bears, but will likely not do so again, as I’ve grown older. These experiences are highly subjective and not scientific, of course, but they affirmed my opinion that spray and guns both have utility in preventing bear attacks.
I started carrying bear spray in the 1980’s based on limited data. As you point out here, the data are now overwhelmingly favorable in the use of bear spray as a deterrent. But I also carry firearms, which I could not legally do in the first 30 years of my outdoors recreational life, in Alberta’s mountain parks. Having BOTH spray and a firearm is my personal minimum level of protection in bear country today where I live, in the USA. Adding a portable electric fence to my kit on future overnight wilderness trips is now a high priority for me.
Thank you for creating this content, I will subscribe to your channel and look forward to more of your offerings.
Seems like a classic predatory attack. Most predatory attacks by grizzlies happen at night in campsites, and are usually done by older bears in poor health like the one shot and killed at the scene. This is similar to the bear in the Treadwell attack in 2003 and the sow in the Soda Butte Campground attacks in 2010. With it being fall, the bear would also have been in hyperphagia and very desperate for food.
I’m surprised that an entire can of bear spray failed to stop the attack, though the bear likely pounced on the tent in the dark and flattened it before they knew what was happening, leaving no time to aim and deploy it correctly. Even a firearm probably wouldn’t have helped in such a situation, like in the Huffman attack in Alaska in 2005, which was also a predatory grizzly attack that occurred at night in a campsite.
Yeah these attacks often shortly after dark makes one wonder if the bear could've been stalking them and waited until dark or they went into the tent to attack.
Or as some mentioned if running late and set up tent at dark don't notice potential warning signs bear sign scat or whatnot and inadvertently camp in bears space.
Yeah they were attacked while in the tent so don't see how they could use the spray in time or effectively. Also at night hard to aim the spray at bears face or nose so could easily spray in wrong direction
I lived in Calgary for a couple of years in the 90th. Transport Canada used to have large signs along the Trans Canada Highway to Banff showing a mountain climber with the text: "And the most dangerous thing he did was driving to the mountains". This certainly holds true even for bear attacks - they are highly unlikely compared to serious traffic accidents but receive much more attention from the media. While we should do all we can to prevent bear attacks we should also relate this risk to other risks we face.
Thanks for your excellent video!
You make an outstanding point. Thanks for sharing. Bear attacks very much capture the imagination and fuel excessive internet hysteria.
My hope is to counteract the frenzy and provide quality insights for people who spend time in bear country. Every attack is a tragedy, but it's also an opportunity to learn.
Thanks so much for your comment!
A firearm is the best and final defense from Bears, Bear spray is a good defense but it has weaknesses in time, weather and proximity. An electric fence is highly advisable in tent sleeping if it can be carried into the country. a shotgun and slugs is the best Bear defensive weapon if you can carry it along as well and know how to use it.
Just sad as they had everything but a firearm which is the tool they needed in this situation!
Apparently bears are as different as people. If you're hiking in bear country, just hope you don't meet up with the predatory kind of bear.
You make an interesting comment about the bear possibly following the dog's scent to the tent. I had always associated a bear-dog interaction originating from a point of annoyance - the dog barking at a bear and the bear giving chase as a result. It never occurred to me that the bear may consider the dog as a food source. My hunting partner and I encountered a grizzly - within about 20 yards - this year that exhibited threatening behaviour. It had a noticeable limp and was quite thin. Its poor health, a lack of berries in the area and other healthy bears nearby were factors that we think contributed to the situation. Despite setting off several "bear bangers'' and gunshots, and getting upwind of it, it did not want to leave us alone. I have seen many grizzlies in northern Canada but this encounter was the closest I have come to a bad outcome.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've had a few close calls myself. Always unnerving.
Bears really do have differing reasons for behaving aggressively. Sometimes it's because a dog is barking, sometimes it's just because the dog is there, and they're looking for calories.
They're opportunists and live a rough life. They're always deserving of respect.
You wanted to get upwind of it so it could smell you or what?
Yes I thought same thing that bear would attack because dog annoyed them but now realize dog could be sleeping in tent with the humans and bear might smell it and attack. They say don't have food in your tent and maybe it could be same thing with a dog in tent.
I live in Arizona, my wife and I went to Banff national park this passed June and stayed at the Fairmont Banff Springs. We had a blast , went on a lot of tours and some hikes where we saw a lot of wildlife but no bears. On one of our hikes it did occur to me that we did not have any bear spray and that whole hike I felt a rising feeling of dread. I didn’t feel better until we made it to the car.
Glad the feeling of dread was in this case unfounded. Even more glad to hear the experience seems to have reminded you to never enter grizzly country without a deterrent, bear spray being the deterrent everyone should carry.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
The minute I got to Alberta I bought a huge canister of the stuff!
@@HomeInWildSpaces On the contrary, the feeling of dread in the forest, is your intuition engaging. There are other things in the forest that cause that "feeling of dread". Always, always, always listen to it and leave the area.
@@CANControlGRAFFITI Also buy a holster and wear it.
Not necessarily. But anxiety and measured fear do have a valuable role to play. They are mechanisms that enable us to identify and respond to danger. But they're not infallible, and often cause problems.@@bettybrooks6585
I don't think the debate is over regarding bear spray whatsoever. In fact the debate has just started.
In several recent fatal bear encounters, The bear still had bear spray residue on its muzzle when they did the necropsy. I do agree with your advice to take all methods of deterrent but especially firearms.
When you talk about the "data" being settled and "science" being settled, It reminds me of something I learned about scientific studies, and the data resulting from them. They're highly manipulable depending upon the conditions and methodology used. In 2019 (an updated in 2023) Outside magazine published an article entitled, "Does bear spray work?'. It points out some of the weaknesses in the studies done on bear spray.
I personally think bear spray is a great deterrent in some circumstances but when things are really serious and there's a chance that the bear is going to actually make contact a firearm is the best way to go.
Although I understand the point you were making about the possible danger posed by a dog, certain types of dogs can help fight bears off. I guess it depends on the breed of dog and how many you have, but being aware that a dog may attract the bear to you is really important information to talk about.
Thanks for tackling a difficult subject with sensitivity towards the people killed and their family.
😢😢😢 my heart and.prayers go out to their family and friends😢😢😢
Your videos on bears are outstanding, and refreshingly accurate and no nonsense. I'm not an expert in the field but am a former NPS ranger and have avidly followed this topic for decades. It seems pretty clear that this unfortunate attack was predatory, as suggested by the age and condition of the sow, the time of year, the circumstance of being attacked in a tent at night, and the fact that the sow was still on site 5 hours later. I applaud Parks Canada for respecting the dignity of the deceased by not making that clear, but unfortunately many people have blamed the victims on social media. I suspect this attack would have happened regardless of the dog but we will never know. I'm an advocate of bear spray and look forward to your video on that topic.
Thank you so much for your comment and sharing your background! I agree with you. There is much we will never know about this attack, and I am saddened that Doug and Jenny have been so maligned. They don't deserve the vitriol.
I take comfort in the fact that most people seem to want to learn from this tragedy and show Doug and Jenny respect in the process. I do not believe the loudest voices represent the majority.
I'm looking forward to sharing my next video on the topic and hope you'll chime in again. Best wishes!
bear spray failed. A firearm offers humans the best chance of survival. Its essential if bear spray fails in a tiered approach
Only if you know what you are doing as a lot of idiots have accidents with their firearms in the back country. The idiots tend to carry a small caliber semiautomatic handgun which won't do much to a bear besides release all of its adrenaline into its bloodstream...
Most people don't seem to understand that they need at least a 30 06 rifle, 45 cal handgun or 12 gauge pump shotgun with 00 buckshot or slugs to cause sufficient damage to the bear. Granted that the noise of these can be used to scare the bear if there is sufficient distance...
Native Nations in Bear Country have trusted adults who know what they are doing, and they tend to carry rifles or 45 cal long barreled revolvers. Most importantly they know when not to use them...@@tarzanstrickland
I am a senior Canadian woman ...
Well versed on riding my horses in Bear and cougar country. I have worked on Dude Ranches both near Durango , Co & Banff , Ab .
I always carry bear spray and a Garmin for emergency . If I was over nighting it I would also be well guarded by an electric fence .
Still , I am pleased that our National Parks uphold the banning of firearms ! In such a vast area. .there could be abusrs of all sorts concerning weapons , also it is in the fabric of our culture to be adverse to gun use ..bravo for that ...
My struggle would be leaving my dog home , though i understand fully the "why" .
For the last 8 years especially, the Canadian government has been very good at covering stuff up, so don’t get your hopes up on getting further information. R.I.P. Doug, Jenny and pup.
Right. The previous government never covered anything up.
Not another conspiracy? God help us all.
I look forward to the bear spray/firearm video, as I’m sure many do. Outside Mag did a great follow-up piece (“Does Bear Spray Work?”) discussing bear spray efficacy and got clarification from Tom Smith on his studies. He mentions that the study on spray and the study on firearms were never meant to be compared. The numbers are completely different in scale. They dig into the numbers well and illustrate, if nothing else, the presumption that bear spray is inherently superior is a misrepresentation of the data. A misrepresentation that the public and wildlife officials both have taken at face value. In the end it doesn’t discount the efficacy of spray or guns but rather clarifies the data and illustrates that the two were completely different studies that were erroneously conflated. I hope you’ve had a chance to read it.
I have read that article and there will be some cross over in my coming video, but my video will go deeper and give practical applications missing from every other resource that I've seen or read on the topic of deterrents.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting! I look forward to getting your feedback when my bear spray/firearm video becomes available.
The definition of an "experienced hiker" MUST include some experience self-rescuing in difficult situations, say even a freak thunderstorm, etc. SO many 'Adventures Gone Wrong' - type channels, where allegedly "highly experienced hikers" made multiple mistakes in a row, leading to their demise. They think their first order of protection is a Garmin device, and a gun, yet they often don't even have basic equipment or paper maps.
I'm not blaming this couple- this is a terrible tragedy. But I don't understand why "experienced hikers" would take a DOG backpacking into known grizzly country in late fall! Or why the poor berry crop was unknown to them. Etc....... RIP.
The incident near Durango, Colorado, was a black bear. There are no grizzlies in Colorado. But she WAS walking with her dogs.
Thank you so much for sharing your interpretation of events. I don’t plan to go to these places but I am fascinated with bear behavior. Based on what I’ve learned I am very suspicious of a predatory attack due to the sow’s age, but would love to see more details from the necropsy.
Old, crazy, and starving = a desperate bear
Well said and around the same age of bear that killed Timothy Treadwell and his partner @@Cataclysm1
@@Cataclysm1 this bear wasnt starving or in poor health. That is a lie that is being spread.
@@dingo9696 the park rangers are liars now? Bad teeth, approximately 25 year old female - that speaks to a desperate bear. The area has been impacted by a drought and there is low berry yield, further contributing to food scarcity.
Do tell why you believe this is a lie.
My brother recently went on a solo camping trip to Yellowstone, he took bear spray. If I was doing the same trip I would have taken both spray and a handgun but because my brother is not proficient with a firearm I advised him not to take one. He would be more likely to accidentally hurt himself with the handgun than he would to be attacked by a bear.
I can’t fathom hiking way back into territory highly populated by grizzlies, like Banff, Yellowstone, and Glazier National Forest. The thought of sleeping in a tent and risking getting eaten alive is freaking scary! It’s like playing Russian roulette with your life.
What a truly awful situation, condolences to the family.
Thanks so much for your analysis of the information we have so far. Hopefully we will get some more valuable details in future re spray state/deployment etc
I hope we get more details soon. Many questions will remain forever unanswered, but that doesn't meant there isn't a precious opportunity to learn.
My condolences to the family 😢. From what I’ve just seen, this was a surprise bear attack as the tent was flattened. Surely reaction time and protection went astray. We can speculate about a lot of things, but one thing for sure , there was fear and confusion in the last moments of these hikers. Quite a scary ending
Well said.
Yes when the whole scenario potentially started with normal rules going out the window like that, very hard situation to then make a well executed effective defence. Terribly sad story
Amount of stories that have come from America, so many with people attacked in tents, the peeps gotta start using those electric fences, I am lucky I live in Australia and despite what some believe about our country we don't have any such land based animals that will attack you while sleeping unless you are silly enough to put a tent near a waterway... Such a simple thing and with advances in tech those fences are quick and easy to erect... man I would just make sure before I sleep that fence is up and running... those bears black or brown are just next level and deserve to be treated cautiously, they are top order predator, driven by instinct... I spent years reading into bears and stories of the like of Timothy Treadwell and what this man says on this channel with bear spray, firearms and electric fences are what I would be doing, even to the extent of risking getting into trouble for having a gun as I would not be out there without one.
@@raistlinwiztv2192 Reminds me of the saying..."better to ask forgiveness than permission."
I'm very impressed with your commentary and respect for the deceased. Your voice is compelling. Very good video. I'm American and asking if Canada allows guns in their national parks?❤
Answered in the video
No. Guns are not allowed in our national or provincial parks.
I’m a Canadian living in the Rockies and in grizzly country. No, you are not allowed guns in National Parks like Banff. I’ve spent 35 years hiking and backpacking in the parks. I’ve run into both black and grizzly bears and never had an issue. I personally am very thankful that we don’t allow guns in our parks. I’d be more worried about yahoos with guns in the backcountry than bears.
Guns are prohibited in Canadian national parks except when carried by law enforcement.
Also, thank you for your kind words. Much more to come.
Thank you for asking the right questions. I hope Parks Canada releases more information based on the questions you ask, because this is truly important! As someone who lives not so far from Banff, and really wants to get into hiking, this is the information we need to know to keep ourselves safe!
For a few months there were stories of bears in many local newspapers in small towns on the Eastern side of the Rockies in Alberta. I would add to the conversation an insurable drought season destroying crops and likely berries (my hay field inclusive) as well as massive wildfire displacements as reasons why a lot of bears seemed “off” this fall. I imagine that when they displace that it’s a domino effect and there is also more bear on bear aggression. Our acreage suffered two bear attacks with the loss of livestock.
Exactly I'm thinking the same thing. There is more chance of bear attacks due to climate crisis, etc. The massive climate crisis wildfires are a huge disruption.
It seems likely that the attack happened in two stages .
There would have been the initial attack where one or both victims were injured. The bear spray probably did its job and the bear retreated.
Then the bear came back later. The victims may have been incapacitated dew to injuries or caught while their attention was focused on dealing with the aftermath of the initial attack.
I'm pretty sure I heard there was more then one can of bear spray found at the scene. Only one was discharged.
It may not have started as a predatory attack but it definitely ended as one.
Personally, I would never want to visit a place with bears!😮 Everybody’s different, but I’d rather stay home.😊 God bless and be safe and enjoy your outing . My condolenses for Dough, and wife .😢
Yes , thank you for your like.
Personally the bears would be grateful to you and built you a monument for that..
I'm not an experienced hiker by any stretch, but I have always understood that you must not take dogs into bear country.
Thank you so much for this thoughtful, educational video. RIP Doug and Jenny... and Mr Bear.🙏🕊❤️
I’m so glad you enjoyed it! And thanks so much for commenting and joining the conversation.
Much more to come.
Very informative video, I have watched all that is available on this story and this one is most educational and without the drama of misinformation. I just subscribed and will definitely be looking forward to your next video on this attack. Thanks for keeping it honest.
Welcome aboard! Looking forward to sharing more videos (without the drama and misinformation) so common on the internet. Looking forward to hear more from you!
I can see where bear spray could be effective in some situations, but I wouldn't stake my life - or the lives of my loved ones, on just one self-defense option. I had a friend some years ago who was a land surveyor in remote areas during the Alaska Pipeline project. He told me that some of the workers carried 12-gauge shotguns loaded with slugs and 0.44 magnum revolvers (as back-up) for bears. He also said they brought their revolvers in with them when visiting portable latrines, as the bears were known to push the latrines over sometimes while occupied! My sincerest sympathies for the families of this lovely couple who tragically lost their lives doing what they loved.
I live in Southwest Florida. We have Black Bears. Literally, everyone will visit national & state parks, everglades, fishing areas, alligator viewing areas, boardwalks & nature hikes, and all of the above without being armed with a walking stick, bear spray or firearms. We also have mountain lions. Some that can get quite large. Not quite like their northwestern cousins but large enough to take you down from behind. Seen them nab 90lb pet goats in their mouths, leap & bound away in seconds.
Most Black Bears here are smaller, leaner, but we do have 200lb+ Bears walking around the neighborhoods and wild areas.
I will not go into these areas anymore with a gun. Since most of my forays into the wild areas are spur of the moment. I will usually only carry my concealed pistol and fishing gear. I may grab a nice walking stick along the way.
People are oblivious, and i used to be one of them until we started to see these bears walk right downtown on 5th Avenue. Where people are constantly lounging and walking during the day and a lot of people also visit at night. The bears have been spotted around midnight-1am when most people are gone.
Someone is going to get mauled one night.
There's a very, very good chance Stuart Howe saw this bear and caught it on video. He was hiking in this area not long before the attack and saw a bear exhibiting strange aggressive behavior. It was also very small for that time of the year, which would explain the predatory behavior. The channel is called Howe's The Hike and it is the video is called The Clearwater-Red Deer Circuit. Bear can be seen at 58:56. In the videos comments he discusses the likelihood that this bear on the video was the bear in question.
Thank you! I just subscribed. I now know to TOSS my 7 year old bear spray. I have a healthy respect for grizzlies after spending 3 summers in the Alaskan interior. Your info was valuable.
Thank you for this commentary on the tragedy in Banff. Thank you also for not weaponizing it against Parks Canada's gun policy. I appreciate your thoughtful analysis of the available information. Hopefully we can learn how to prevent such a calamity in the future, but sometimes there is simply a confluence of circumstances that cannot be avoided... RIP
My pleasure. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughtful feedback.
Many times bear attacks are best understood as the confluence of unfortunate circumstances. Circumstances replicated by thousands of other people from day to day, but which still rarely turn deadly.
I have a philosophy that each bear attack is an opportunity to learn and prevent similar events in the future. Looking forward to sharing more in the future.
Hope to hear from you again.
Pretty sure it "weaponizes" itself. Interesting that guns were used to kill the bear "on sight". Pretty effective.
@@HomeInWildSpacesSadly, it's not just unfortunate circumstances. It's a collection of sometimes avoidable decisions, which may eventually snowball and get people into trouble. RIP to this couple.
Nonsense. To say they shouldnt have been able to defend their lives is appalling.
In the news when this happened , we were told this was an unknown bear, not collared no tags, not known to the park rangers ! Also this was an older skinny female bear! The bear did not eat them,but was guarding their bodies! So I don’t know why you didn’t get that information ! When they shot the bear, it was acting aggressively ! AND this is a very dangerous time to hike or camp most anywhere! Bears are insanely hungry trying desperately to store their body fat so they can survive hibernation !! People don’t care! Let’s head our pet to the wilderness - it’ll be fun they said ! I live close to where this couple was killed, I would never ever camp in a tiny tent during this time of year! It doesn’t help if you know your way around, it matters that both black and grizzly bear, are showing less patience with each other and with humans - they are obsessed with one thing ; Eating !!
The reason we won't get the truth from parks Canada is that this story doesn't fit the narrative of all guns are bad. The government would rather see a few Canadians get eaten than give them permission to carry arms.
@@mikenagy938you do realize how rare these attacks are don’t you. Cry more about your guns meanwhile.
@@aaykay4060 Does it matter how rare they are if you're the one being attacked? People like you are mentally broken. You talk of rarity as if it matters. These 2 people were killed by a bear. How rare it is doesn't matter to them or their families.
Good vid. If a person doesn’t have the skills to use a gun, it most likely won’t work. If one gets attacked like that in a tent, it most likely won’t end well. I’ve seen where lots of Canadians use the fence
" _If a person doesn’t have the skills to use a gun, it most likely won’t work_ "
Even if a person does have the skills, the circumstances may make the exercise of those skills difficult or impossible.
@@istvanglock7445 yeah being in a tent when a grizzly runs up is prolly not gonna end well no matter what
As a former guide, bears sometimes single a person out and come for you when adrenalized. They absorb a lot of lead, in that state, you need a large caliber that breaks bone at that point. Shot placement is difficult at best in a charging/attacking bear situation. They will back track, very dangers in the brush/woods. Smart too they associate rifle shots with food.
You bring up some great points. I'll be addressing many of them in coming videos. Thanks!
Exactly
exactly. even experienced marksman being charge by a bear will have no chance, your adrenaline and fear takes over and you are shooting all over the place. nevermind you need a pretty major firearm to stop them with. good luck in that situation.
@@JayandSarah exactly
Thank you for the knowledgeable information.
My pleasure. Doug and Jenny deserved a fact-based examination of their story. Very sad situation. I only hope people can learn from it.
Thanks for watching!
The bear spray statistics are misleading, since there is no way to judge the bear's intent or degree of commitment to the attack. Most bear aggression manifests as mock charges or threat displays, there are many videos of these online. The weather or wind direction may not be conducive to a chemical spray, or the bear may be bound and determined. In these circumstances reliance on bear spray is ill-advised, even foolhardy. Are you willing to let your life depend on the bear's decision making? Not a bet I would make, in the final extremity a lethal defense should always be an option. Mounting an armed self-defense is every human being's inalienable right. Any government that abridges that right is overstepping its rightful authority.
You make a lot of good points. The inevitable problem of the "guns vs spray" argument is the either/or position of the respective advocates. It's not a serious discussion until people acknowledge that BOTH are necessary for best possible bear protection in the outback to defend against different scenarios, in addition to electric fences and other measures for extended trips.
I do take exception to two different points made though. First is that he statistical data supporting bear spray as the be-all, end-all bear deterrent is highly subject to manipulation. There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. When the entity producing these stats has a certain agenda or pre-existing politically motivated bias, anyone who does a modicum of research with a scintilla of analytical ability can immediately poke holes in these studies. Second, meticulously following "bear protocols", which vary according to governance, is pointless when they also have their origins in politically motivated agendas.
Having said all that, I personally usually hike with just bear spray if I even bring anything at all, but if I'd been on this kind of camping trip I'd have brought at least a couple of firearms as well. It's criminally negligent for the Canadian government to not allow people to defend themselves adequately in National Parks.
Sounds like you're definitely going to want to stay tuned for my next bear safety installment where we'll chat about everything you've mentioned here.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Accusing the government of being criminally negligent is ridiculous.
@@dougstewart3243 And how would you describe a government depriving people of the ability to protect themselves?
@@pi-sx3mb It becomes part of a bigger issue regarding gun control and public safety. Obviously they are looking at the bigger picture. You don't have the right to arm yourself in Canada to protect yourself from people or bears
@@dougstewart3243 I agree with you that the primary issue here is gun control. Public safety - not so much (look to the U.S. policy of carry ability in National Parks as a template for that).
It's the cloaking of POLITICAL AGENDA as PRINCIPLE that is objectionable. ANY liberty carries with it an inherent risk. We'd all be absolutely safe with zero freedoms.
The overriding story behind all of this that always get tip-toed around is that it's no secret the Canadian government is one of the most restrictive so-called "free" societies when it comes to firearms. If we're going to embrace the principle of keeping people safe, then close down public access to Banff. If we're going to embrace the principle of freedom, then allow people the ability to pursue that with the inherent risk associated with it and the concomitant ability to protect themselves. But let's not confuse the two.
This is just one of the many risks of participating in wilderness activities. Much less in the fall, when bears are gathering food for winter in the Canadian Rockies. They were only two people, Banff recommends 6 or more when hiking/camping in bear country. Dogs attract other predatory animals. Sounds like they actually weren’t that educated in bear safety if this was a surprise to them they were attacked. The bear lost its life as well, just being a wild animal in its territory, now that’s tragic. You can’t carry firearms in provincial or national parks in Canada. In my firearms course they said good luck getting a shot off in time if a bear is attacking you, many hunters are mauled by bears.
The bear was an old female , around 25 years old, underweight with bad teeth. The bear was likely starving when it attacked.
We carry bear spray when we hunt for moose/elk in Northwestern Alberta. We are observing an explosion in the grizzly bear population in the area that we hunt. In the past 2 years we have closely encountered incredible quantities of bear scat and direct sightings of 2 males and 2 sows with 3 cubs each. We observed this quantity after spending a net total of only 3 weeks in the area. Grizzlies remain on the endangered list despite no longer being actually endangered. Prior to this I had only ever seen one Grizzly while hunting my whole life. This is a dramatic change which has triggered us to consider bear safety with substantially heightened priority in our hunting practices.
Thank you for doing your research and telling the truth of their story I have watched a few videos regarding this attack which were just basically lies made to sound more theatrical and to entertain this is truly a tragedy thank you for being respectful to the victims and their families.
I have 30+ trips into the wilderness of Northern Ontario. A few years back the outlawed spring bear hunting and the population exploded. After a bad experience with a black bear we changed our location and started setting up an electric fence. We have had two times when we know the fence kept bears out of out camp during the day while we were fishing. This past late September we went to the Canadian Rockies and spent a week tent camping. Even though at times there were other campers around we always had bear spray in the tent and the fence was up. I'm not sure how a backpacker can carry a fence but if we ventured off the beaten path I can promise we would figure it out 🙂
Good point. We have legal bear hunting in our state but it's not a small expense especially on top of deer, fishing, etc. permits. Plus seems you need the right firearms to hunt bears and other special things. I don't really know how many people actually hunt them anymore, hunting seems to have declined in general because the kids just play video games and stay on their phones all the time, and the black bears come into town and eat out of dumpsters etc. So seems a not insignificant number might lose their fear of humans. This alone makes realize a bear fence is a necessity not an option.
Hi Mike are there times of day when bears are up and roaming around ? Like dear at dusk or dawn?
Bears can be active at anytime of the day, but are generally more active in the morning and evening.
Best to always remain alert and attentive.
i ve never understood why people go into dangerous country without a weapon. is it arrogance or just stupidity
The biggest problem with bear spray is that it is a short range weapon a very short range weapon 8 to10 yards if you are lucky! I had a close call while visiting a friends camp ground with my kids when a big male black bear decided to jump in the garbage bin that my van was parked beside with my kids in it with the windows rolled half way down when i was in his store. some lady yelled in the store "there is a bear by the kids" my friend Doc grabbed a can of bear spray and we both ran out the store and ran at the bear that was standing upright on the garbage bin next to my van standing his ground. Doc tried to spray the bear but we were getting more of the spray than the bear was so i started throwing rocks at it. It didn't like the rocks to much and decided to scramble up a tree next to the garbage bin and huff and puff and nash his teeth together at us. while Doc kept trying to spray the bear i got the windows rolled up in the van and managed to grab a .22 cal pellet pistol from my gear and shot that bear right in the nose. it hit the ground running and took off in the bush. That bear was shot a week later with permision from parks staff by another family camp ground operator. from my experience a .22 cal pellet gun or a rock works better than bear spray on a windy day.
Glad everyone was ok. In truth all deterrents have limitations. I’ll go over both in my coming video.
Bear spray might work on a surprise encounter, but it will NOT work on a bear that is intent on preying you.
I don't understand why he is saying we don't know if the two victims deployed bear spray--it was reported they emptied out their bear spray canister. Clearly this is a situation where bear spray was not effective because the bear was intent on eating. Why would an extra can make a difference??
I think a lot of inexperienced hikers assume grizzlies and black bears are similar or that a grizzly is just bigger. They are very different animals with very different personalities and reactions to humans. Bear spray is an absolute must carry anywhere there are grizzlies. Thanks for this great video!
Part of the issue in Banff is the province bordering it, British Columbia (where I am from), outlawed Grizzly hunts a few years back. Now there is a surplus of Grizzlies with no predators.
You have made an excellent point here. If I am understanding you correctly, poor wildlife management is causing a surplus of starving, unhealthy bears? (I am assuming you meant no prey)
I meant no predators to keep the number of grizzlies reasonable. Humans are grizzly predators. Nothing else kills them. Wildlife management is causing a surplus, and the prey animals of the grizzly are being dwindled down as a result.
Also, people hike/camp in the feeding territory of apex predators.
(Does Banff really have a surplus though? How is that defined, relative to just enough or not enough? )
Similar incident in Alaska in 2005. The Huffman’s had a .45-70, lever-action CoPilot rifle in the tent, a rifle specifically designed for bear protection in Alaska, but were unable to use it.
An investigation revealed Richard appeared to have pulled down the lever on the rifle to put a cartridge into the chamber but died or was seriously injured before he could bring the firearm into play, Jonathon Waterman later wrote in National Geographic Adventure magazine.
I know that we are supposed to keep our rifles and ammunition separate however in wilderness I was told to keep my rifle loaded. Thankfully it was not needed.
That would make sense! @@cinbird6284
It doesn't seem like either a gun or bear spray can help when asleep or otherwise vulnerable in a tent. Even if cartridge loaded, unlikely to get off a shot after bear has already grabbed or mauled the person. Seems must have someone on watch or electric fence or some kind of effective warning system.
This is a great video. Thank you for sharing it. Very balanced and well thought out.
Arguing that to carry a gun for personal protection in known bear country is not 'politics'....a gun is just one more tool in the toolbox of a prepared traveler.
Which tool will be most effective in a given situation will depend on all the unique variables of each encounter.
I think you'll find that I am not arguing that carrying a gun for personal protection is "politics". In fact I state clearly that "the right gun in the right hands is an extremely effective tool."
My "politics" statement refers to people who either use tragedy to argue a false dichotomy (gun OR bear spray), or who argue falsely that bear spray doesn't work, or those who want to make this tragedy about guns and nothing else.
Those arguments are all false and a waste of everyone's time. There is more to the conversation than gun/no gun and Doug and Jenny deserve better.
The fact you can't bring a rifle, for protection, into a national park, is criminal. I would never feel 100% safe with only bear spray as the only form of protection. This is why I don't go camping in National Parks.
Same here.
In America we weren't allowed to carry firearms in national parks until 2014 or so. Even then. I believe they have to be concealed.
This is strange. It's forbidden to be armed in Canada. Trekking seems to be a suicidal mission. Kung Fu is not palpable.
Oh my god! It’s insane. Americans can take their guns to the malls but not into the wilderness.
Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the ‘right to bear arms’ about protecting oneself in the wilderness?
This is why the rest of the world thinks the US is seriously messed up.
Can’t take a gun into wilderness,
But kids killing kids in schools with guns is veiled as a ‘cost’ of the ‘right to bear arms’.
Do you see the ludicrousness of this?
No-one in Australian own a gun unless they can prove it’s needed eg farmer.
Yes we have a-holes who illegally get guns, but they just shot each other.
Guns are not an accepted and tolerated part of life.
Guns are not in your average family home. Most people have never even seen one.
I would anyway f*** these wacky gun laws. Communists laws. I renewed my pal way back in last February, but I still haven't got it. Its a total joke. Almost time to move to America Canada sucks now after turdo took over
Thank you for this video. I hike throughout BC and into the Rockies, including Banff. The statistics I've seen (there's a list on Wikipedia) indicate fewer than 2 deaths from all types of bears throughout North America. I always say that the most dangerous part of the trip is the car trip to the trailhead. Nonetheless, I'll trade in my bear spray canister for a new one before my next trip, as it's at least 4 years old. I've never needed to pull out the bear spray in almost 20 years of backcountry adventures. My grizzly sightings have always been at a distance, but I've seen evidence that they aren't far, such as scat and diggings.
Thanks!
Sounds like our experiences have been very similar. I've been exploring grizzly country for decades and have never had to use a deterrent. Came close once when my wife and I stumbled upon a grizzly on a kill in the late evening.
Bear spray was already in my hand with the safety off, but I'll forever be grateful I didn't have to use it.
That seems to be the nature of backcountry adventure. Chances are you'll be ok, but you definitely want to make sure you're prepared.
None of us knows when we might need to fend of an aggressive bear.
Best wishes! Hoping to hear more from you in the future!
there have been many more than 2 ever.
Very sad. However as a life long resident of Alberta n a hunter/hiker I’ve had my encounters with grizzlies. Someone seems to always get killed every year or so by bears. But the sheer amount of people in the parks and foothills areas habituate bears in these areas to people.
Cows kill and severely injure far more people in N.A. than bears. In fact in Banff Townsite you are far more likely to be killed by an Elk. But no videos on dangerous cows or pepper spray against Elk. Why not? Regarding bear attacks MUST READ (if anyone does anymore) Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance Paperback (2003) Stephen Herrero
I understand that you intend a definitive episode concerning bear spray vs firearms. I anticipate that it may favor bear spray. I am an advocate of bear spray. I am also an advocate of firearms. If bear spray is the best defense against bear attacks, why do almost all guides and wildlife control personnel in Alaska carry large caliber firearms? I believe there is a case for both.
Thanks for commenting. I would say that I favor the proper use of the proper tool.
I can't speak to the mindset of guides in Alaska and were I in the Alaska backcountry I wouldn't only carry a gun, but I'd make sure that I was thoroughly proficient with it. I'll discuss in greater detail in my upcoming video on the topic.
Stay tuned.
My daughter and her boyfriend went to Yellowstone on their first hiking trip. I bought them Bear Spray and insisted they have where they could retrieve it quickly; not buried in their backpack.
I’m so sorry for what happened to these seasoned hikers. You brought up alot of interesting perspectives. I am a gun enthusiast but I believe it should be that last resort. I didn’t know about some of the things you mentioned ie Bear fence. Please keep educating everyone. What more have I not heard of that I could pass on to my adventurous family.
Ty Franci
Bless you for insisting they properly carry bear spray! The world needs more people like you.
So glad you learned something from this video! I’m currently working on the holy grail of bear safety videos. Guns vs bear spray: the final word.
I think you’ll find it very enlightening. I’ve honest not found many online resources that handle the discussion responsibly and am looking forward to hopefully setting the record straight.
Every year I hunt outside of Yellowstone in Wyoming. There is a large concentration of grizz in the units we hunt. Every person in our group carries bear spray, bear bang canisters and a semi-auto pistol with hardcast bear rounds. Its always better to have a backup for your backup in a worse case scenario. Due to pushback from eco groups the grizz population has exploded and there is no way to manage their numbers as they are the apex predator. This unfortunately leads to starvation which ultimately leads to predation . Anyone who doesnt or hasnt interjected themselves into "food chain" doesn't understand a certain amount of land can only carry a specific number of animals predatory or non predatory. This is the reason that humans or pets become food and this is why they will push into neighborhoods or landfills. Grizzlies, wolves, coyotes etc.. all need to managed to limit or negate some of these interactions.
You bring up a lot of good points and it sounds like you'll very much want to watch my upcoming video on deterrents.
Management is tricky. the amount of natural resources has diminished and most of these animals on the landscape were nearly eliminated from the landscape with decades of absence before numbers have begun recovering. Finding that right balance on the landscape is complicated.
If predation on humans is the primary indicator of starving bears overpopulating an area, then there's not much evidence of over population. I think the last predatory attack in greater Yellowstone was in 2015, within the park. Almost every other attack was defensive or when a bear challenged hunters for their kill.
Starving or well-fed this is standard grizzly behavior. They make their living challenging wolves, and other bears for their kill.
It's an important conversation that is certain to continue as grizzlies repopulate their historic range. Thanks for sharing you advice and experience! Sounds like you and your buddies have done your homework.
Thanks for this video,
I understand parks Canada does not want to speculate but they can share facts , I had same questions in mind, if there was any evidence that bear was sprayed? how many sprays they had ? How old the spray was?
There must be evidence and details? Which should be shared with other backcountry user. I believe it can be done respectfully.
I am really thankful that you shared your thoughts so respectfully. We need more people like you on you tube .
Regards 🙏
You're very kind. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
It's a difficult balance. Bear attacks are precious opportunities to learn, but there's no benefit from maligning the victims. It's best to try and use the event to try and respectfully help others avoid a similar fate.
More to come. I hope to hear from you again!
It was in fact revealed that two cans of bear spray were found - one empty, one unused.
Strange how the government tells us that bear spray is more than sufficient while authorities are armed with firearms and used them to save their own lives when they encountered the same bear. 🤦♂️
The authorities are there to deal with a dangerous Bear, that’s why they would have a large caliber firearm with them. Nobody is going to be able to dispense a Bear with Bear Spray. That is not it’s intended purpose in that situation. They would probably carry Bear Spray but they would never use it to put down/ kill a Bear.
It's not strange at all, except for conspiracy theorists. And it's not government that's telling us bear spray is effective (actually more effective than firearms) but plenty of independent studies. paddlefar has answered your question. The park authorities weren't on a hike, they were there in part to deal with a dangerous bear.
What’s even more strange is your don’t appear to use your brain for logical thinking and reasoning, instead doff your tin foil hat here.
That's the point of this comment. When they suspected there was a dangerous bear they brought along a firearm and did not spray it first. Citizens aren't allowed that choice. Only government workers allowed into the backcountry with firearms when dangerous bears are suspected to be in the area. @@istvanglock7445
sleeping in a tent..at night..grizzly country..seems a bit foolhardy..but what do I know..2 dead..even the dog..sad
I absolutely love this channel. Its my fav. Im so sorry for this couple.😢 i feel horrible for the family and friends
You are vey kind. Thank you for your support and for you kind consideration of the victims and their family and friends..
Dog presence greatly increases chance of humans being attacked. We religiously employ dual electric bear wires as early warning systems. They only weigh a few pounds. Always have two bear sprays per person...out and on person. Spares in packs. ALWAYS have 10mm Glock G40 per person, plus Mossberg Shockwave 12 ga magazine version with slugs for longer warning scenarios. These defensive tools are always in addition to our elk/moose rifles. We travel heavy, but return home each trip. Grizzles are professional killers. Never in anti-gun Canada...not worth the threat....from bears as well as government.
Imagine asking the governments permission to protect your life in bear country with a firearm and they say no. Unreal.
In the national parks, wildlife is more important than humans. If people can’t deal with that, they shouldn’t go there. Plenty of places to hike and camp outside of the national/provincial parks. Bottom line, humans are the most dangerous predators and giving wildlife a chance to thrive as a priority in a few select spaces is the least we can do.
@@sharonjsings that’s a nice opinion.
Last fall, while in the Bob Marshall NF, I setup a flash bang enabled perimeter around the tents, our doors was hung ~150 yards away, my handgun was with me 100% of the time and bear spray within reach. The Garmin inReach was with me as well. If encountered by a bear, my first response was to draw my handgun, the spray would have been a backup.
You shouldn't shoot a bear just because you encounter one, it can make things much worse to injure them.
Interesting video - please use a normal font next time. That weird script was wickedly difficult to read quickly.
It was a rainy evening with light snow at higher elevations. Was the female bear stocking them for a while or just stumbled upon their tent in heavier rain, where their scent couldn't be carried far away. Dog most likely barked inside of the tent, and bear jumped on it. Would pinesoil cleaning detergent keep bear at larger distance? Apparently they do not like that scent, I did tested on black bear that used to show up regularly at our previous home in greater Vancouver, dog was making him more agitated, we have Brittany hunting dog, not a good idea, especially close to grizzly. Since we now live very close to Banff and Kanannaskis' I am very interested in all the details' but Parks Canada are keeping it under "X files" status. Even if they had rifle, at the moment when 400lbs plus grizzly gets in your tent, while you are reading a E book, it is a game over. Speed, panic, darkness, rain. ...
So bear spray is 98% effective IF no wind,no rain, no snow, not inside a tent, proper distance, proper time of shooting..... seems like a lot of IFs
No. Bear spray is approximately 98% effective. That includes known environmental variables.
Wind affects aim and distance. Heavy rain or snow affect long term potency. A bear might get sprayed, but then benefit from rain washing the spray away. This would still take substantial time, but if you’re camped and stationary, it’s something to consider. A bear might come back.
I’ll cover bear spray and firearms in depth in my next full length video.
@HomeInWildSpaces cool I will be waiting for it.
Thank you for this honest video. I support you 100%. You SAVE lives and you may do MORE!
An old bear trying to get ready for hibernation after a hot, dry summer. It just sounds like bad, bad luck.
For what its worth, it was also a full moon that day in Alberta (September 29th).
True, but it was also stormy. Cloud cover would have reduced the light of the moon.
@HomeInWildSpaces Absolutely was a stormy day. The full moon may have played a factor in the bears behavior that day.
🌲🐻🌲Welcome everyone to the conversation! This is a perfect place to ask questions, and receive answers (though of variable reliability). I try to answer when I can so if you have something you'd like to discuss or an outstanding question, please share.
But please keep the conversation respectful. I've already deleted about 40 comments because of a remarkable and inexcusable level of vitriol. I've permitted some comments insulting me to remain. This is my prerogative. Sometimes I see value in responding to unreasonable comments if only to provide a valuable response to misinformation.
Please remember that my bear attack videos are designed to inform and keep people safe. Please join me in that endeavor by having a quality discussion. Thanks!!! 🌲🐻🌲
Thank you for your take on this incident.
I wanted to ask about camping in bear country. Something that really jumps out to me in some of these stories is people going to sleep with nothing but a flimsy tent to protect them. Is this not inherently unsafe? I suppose a ditched and staked enclosure like a Roman marching camp might be overdoing it a bit. But it seems to me like people are just rolling the dice, hoping the bears don't try to eat them while they're sleeping. Why isn't it standard practice to take turns sleeping, and make sure there's always someone awake to watch for bears?
Then again, my only experience with bears is seeing a polar bear in the zoo, so I don't know what I'm talking about.
Good questions. In truth bears for the most part are not out there waiting to pounce. Sometimes the stars align and for whatever reason bears harm people. It's true that a tent doesn't offer much shelter from a curious or aggressive grizzly, and while there is some vulnerability to an attack while in a tent, bears are generally quite good at avoiding conflicts.
However, it's clear some bears do represent a threat. That's why people who camp in grizzly country ought to give serious consideration to using an electrified portable fence. These are specifically intended to serve as a hard barrier to bears that might get too close and they are very effective.
Knowledge is power as they say. It take some education to learn to safely enjoy grizzly country, but people do it successfully all the time. We just tend to hear about the tragedies and not the successes.
I hope that helps!
@@neuralnetwork17
@@HomeInWildSpaces I had no idea that a portable electrified fence was even an option, but that's kinda brilliant.
@@HomeInWildSpacesthe fences do seem very worth investigation. Is this the kind of thing used commonly in polar bear country? So presumably they also cope well with very heavy/snowy weather? Thanks
Few good points here, the dog is one thing that freaks bears out. I was on pack trip once in northern Montana with a big mean Shepard, this moose turns up in camp and followed us for three days. The bear spray thing is a joke, you know how many people have been killed with only having bear spray. A firearm will only work in the hands of a gunslinger that can use it. The sad thing is when you bring a bear to a gun fight the bear loses every time. There is no turning back. I also think bears are territorial they will attack if you are on their turf. I have seen signs of this in Alaska. You know what you call a Canadian in the wilderness with no firearm ‘bear food”.
1. Bear Spray does not work on ADRENALIZED BEARS.
2. I invite you to IGNORE anyone that says a 12 ga with slugs is not a GOOD Answer. Sometimes am ambush will be fatal no matter what you do. A 12 ga deploys faster and harder than Bear Spray.
3. If your going in Bear Country without a firearm, that seems foolish. Non-firearms need be Viking style striking weapons including stout spears.. I don't know you but suggesting that Parks Canada has a monopoly on wisdom suggests to me you are pandering to authority, my opinion. In my opinion for bears or otherwise, the capacity to repel hostile actors is always necessary to keep your loved ones from mourning you thereafter. AMBUSHES will kill you true, but that does not mean you dont prepare for the worst.
4. Dogs - unless you have a Karelian Bear Dog or other Laika breeds, you need 2 or more if they are for safety. Lacking that, dont take your Jack Russell.
5. All your advice aside one fact stands out. ALL THREE ARE DEAD FOREVER.!!! Your advice is no comfort, rather it seems to me to be a denial of the drive to preserve life. Hos long have you lived in the bush - it seems not evident to me.???
Object lesson: Griz guide I knew. Slept with a double bbl 10 ga sawed off. No fear@@garrylarose1506
Your anti-gun bias is not that subtle. The simple fact they got off a msg says there was time enuf to deter this bear(s) with even the most rudimentary Bear Gun(12 ga double bbl). These people are DEAD, and you lead everyone on with how rare and unusual this MIGHT be. Humans are trespassers in Bear Country, behaving as such might save lives. Your thrust here seems to be "Everything is OK, dont worry about bears and dont think for yourself" Considering They had a stale and partial can of bear spray ONLY says they were less than meticulous, and for that paid that NEITHER survived. I find your analysis, superficial and pandering. Too many errors in their trip and your analysis leave me biting my tongue, so I leave before it gives you a good lashing.
Unless you take a pair of Karelian Bear Dogs or Laika's, your dog is bait for bears.
I think you have incorrectly interpreted the video. No where do I state or suggest that "Parks Canada has the monopoly on wisdom."
It's also not my intent to comfort, but rather to prevent similar tragedies.
I think you'll find that all your questions and critiques will be answered in my upcoming video on guns vs bear spray and subsequent bear attack deconstruction videos.
Best wishes!
your advide is pathetic, weak and ill - considered, based on my experience in Bear County. Good luck.@@HomeInWildSpaces
@@denaliguidesummit7029nothing but straight facts. Either bring a gun or don't go at all.
The thing I always find uncomfortable is all resources saying bear attacks are “rare” not much of the population lives in grizzly country and even fewer of those people go into the wilderness to encounter bears government agencies calling bear attacks rare might be a bit reckless and gives people a false sense of security
Two dogs not one. One will bring in a bear, moose. Two dogs saved our lives so many times living n between two parks and lots of grizzlies. As a trapper. In the SE BC.
It was the dog bro...Its always the dog. Just like alligator attacks in Florida. There's almost always a dog involved. Leave the pets at home on hikes.
I always carry a gun into the wilderness (legal or not), but I take that chance in protection of my life from other humans, not animals. I am far more concerned with shady characters out there than I am wildlife. I also carry bear spray, and that is what I would use first. There is no 100% guarantee of protection against anything, and I agree that experience isn't a guarantee. Plenty of "expert" mountaineers, hikers, and backcountry adventurers have lost their lives.
You have to be very sane to trek deep into the wilderness. The shady characters are all in the cities.
I feel like there’s zero reason for you to mention “if Doug and Jenny were proficient in the use of firearms”. You have already noted they appeared to be well prepared and appeared to do all the right things before and during the trip. Do you not think they would’ve made themselves proficient in the use of a firearm if it was allowed and they made a decision to bring one or more firearms on the trip? Would it have made a difference? We’ll never know. Does it make sense to have more than 1 option to actively defend yourself? Absolutely.
Can't bring firearms in the national parks in Canada .
I watched your video on dogs provoking bear attacks & here it is again. Very sad.
What type of dog was with them? Dogs can cause a bear attack. The right breed can deter the attack. Good video. Sad story.
Border collie. She might have tried to herd the bear. But she also would have died defending her owners if they were attacked
It would be interesting to ask the family if the dog slept inside or outside the tent.
There's no way a bear would catch a border collie. That dog died trying to help it's owners. Even my german Shephard is fast enough to bark at bears and not get hurt, my sisters hound will actually chase them off while the german Shephard just stands it's ground.
I live in Canmore and wildlife encounters are extremely frequent especially when in the back country, bear sightings are also pretty high, you have to assume you will run into a Grizzly. Multiple bear managment items/strategies are a must, one option of protection is not good enough, redundancy is your best friend.
On the dogs issue I have come to accept because of our deep connection with dogs, even experienced outdoorsman will forgo this advice in favour of bringing their dog along. I don’t have a solution nor will I pretend I haven’t done the same, it’s just an observation I have on that matter.
What a horrible way to go, thoughts out to the victims families.
Did you notice how the rescue team (trained professionals) didn't use bear spray on the bear? I think they know what's more effective and protects their team better
Your point is a popular, but none the less based on falsehood. The animal attack response team was specifically entering the area with the expectation that they would likely have to euthanize the bear.
This is fundamentally different than people entering the back country with bear spray who only need to deter a bear, not remove it from the population.
Different tools, for different purposes. Has nothing to do with which is more effective.
The rescue team shot the bear before they found the couple and their dog, they didn't know they were dead
Has nothing to do with their decision. They determine the bear a threat to themselves and the public. That is why it was killed.
@@HomeInWildSpaces Finding two dead people has nothing to do with their decision?
Just because a bear shows aggression towards humans isn't enough of a reason to euthanize a bear. That's the very reason for bear spray, it's expected a bear may be aggressive but instead of killing it the idea is to deter it
They knew an attack had occurred, that two people were unaccounted for and a grizzly bear was threatening them. Whether they found Doug and Jenny before or after shooting the bear is immaterial.
They had a job to do, and this bear was unusually aggressive and interfering with aiding or investigating. Bears typically aren’t aggressive toward people. Typically they avoid people.
I repeat my initial response: The mission of the response team is fundamentally different than recreational visitors. They brought guns because they knew there was a high likelihood that a bear would need to be removed from the population. That would have been true whether Doug and Jenny were alive or dead.
I'm in Australia and I don't understand why you wouldn't go into bear country without bear spray AND a gun - and be proficiently trained in both. The electric tent fence seems like a mandatory measure, as well.
This is Canada, they're in the process of taking away all the guns...
Bear fence! Great idea.
I think so too! They are a much underutilized tool.
As the famous qoute from Mike Tyson says, "everybody's got a plan until they get hit in the face."
Imma make a prediction on that spray vs gun topic
Having both is probably good.
You’re definitely going to want to watch the full video. Coming soon.
Why would a hiker bring a dog , don't make since ?
Lots of hikers bring their dogs. It can be done responsibly, but there are also hazards as well.
Great video... the fact is that people DIE at Disney like amusement parks... the wilderness is not Disneyland... if there were no RISKS, then why go? This couple were aware of the risks and chose to go into the wild. If you want to be absolutely SAFE... stay home...
Thanks! You bring up some very good points. The wilderness is not a childproofed or sanitized area. Especially in the remote backcountry. There are risks inherent to entering these areas.