I miss having all the scores up at once. I watch while doing other things so it was nice to easily look over and follow the scores. Great to have diskgolf back!
as an editor myself, i want to say a major props to the graphics and editing team. every single year you guys blow it out of the water with raising the production value. PROPS TO THE EDITORS!
infrastructure wise the whole presentation is great. The only change should be to nix the darker blue as a the dominant color on the hole maps. I get the theming but the primary color, the green, should be used. Reserving the dark blue for water
Hi Nate. I want to chime in, in response to your comments about the leaderboard check-in. I think the system that was essentially in place last year is very much preferred, where the little number next to the players' score shows where they are at relative to where everyone in the field was after that hole, BUT, the specific, periodic "leaderboard check-ins" show the "live as it stands" perspective. I think a lot of what people love about the old system is that it allows us, the spectator, to know *new* information that is quite interesting, it gives a sense of "pace" to how the players are doing relative to where other players were. I really hope that Jomez decides to go back to showing players' positions relative to the hole, but I can also understand your perspective as well. At the end of the day, it's a small quibble on what is the absolute gold standard of coverage and commentary.
I think it’s best if they go back for the early rounds and go to live scoring for the final round only. Nate’s point stands but the early round live scores aren’t relevant hole to hole
I completely agree with Joshua. Understanding the live-as-it-stands scoring requires more calibration to account for specific hole difficulty and position. The time we get, as viewers, to see the live score is not enough to interpret all that information. Looking back and forth between score, leaderboard position, and hole position, all while the top of the leaderboard quickly scrolls off the screen is practically impossible. I would need to pause the video and study the new scoreboard to understand it. The ending of this video showed the live leader for a grand total of 7 seconds before that score was no longer visible. I can’t back-calculate how good that is versus 10 other players at various positions on the course in that short amount of time. The total checkin time after hole 6 was 30 seconds, and almost every player was at a different spot on the course. The leader was visible for 3 seconds on that checkin. That’s not a enough time to compare against the other 10 or 15 players. Yes, the players do all of this interpretation on the course while spending 3-5 hours in each round with an intimate understanding of every hole. The complex assessment is too much to ask of casual viewers within 3 to 50 seconds of automatic scrolling. I’d wager that the Jomez guys wouldn’t be able to interpret it within this presentation format/timing if they hadn’t spent all day watching it happen live.
This live checkin would have been great at the end of the 2022 MVP Open when only a few players were in contention. I can’t think of many other times when I would have preferred this live scoring. The live scoring has a potential advantage in the last round when only a few players are still in contention. But the old presentation is easier to understand and better in almost all other contexts.
Not gonna stop me from watching, but throwing my hat in with everyone wanting the change back to the leaderboard and scorecards. It's not live coverage, we don't need "live" scores. Loving where everything else is at.
It's not "live" but it's an accurate snapshot of what was happening at that moment. If we start the round with Kevin at -26 and it shows Ezra also at -26 thru hole 10 at 8 down for the round, then it tells you the pace the lead card needs to maintain to stay ahead, and overall whether the wind is a big factor or not. The only real case for the old way is if you just want to be surprised if/when someone from the chase card card comes back to challenge or win.
@@daemn42 Isn't that what the place indicators are for? If someone makes a bogey and drops down to 5th or lower, you know someone on another card is beating that person.
@daemn42 I understand how/why it works, I catch what live coverage I can in disc and regular golf. Just doesn't fit well with what we come to Jomez for the day after, the results and live streams/recaps are already out there. They can give us a more concise narrative hole-for-hole than watching live can.
I love you guys, I've tried live coverage but you are simply so much better than live! That being said, could you please bring back the old way of showing the scores of the card? In my opinion you nailed it, it was so much superior to other producers but now it's gone. I really loved how you were able to see everything at pretty much one glance while not being confusing or taking up too much screen space.
I second this whole-heartedly! Love what Jomez does, and don't want to blame or discourage them for trying something new, but in this case I feel like the old way was better. I also preferred when the leaderboards were shown as though the whole field was at the same position as the feature card. I find the "real-time" version very confusing and difficult to judge how individual players are doing.
Loving the coverage! Thanks for all of the high quality editing and commentary! One piece of constructive criticism, could you please show all of the players scorecards the whole time? It makes it much easier to follow things! Thank you!
I think the live look in scoring is better when you are more involved in the tournament. If I’m there, I want to know what the scores are and what’s going on. If I know more of the mindset of the players with the upcoming holes, it explains more about when the leaders lay up or push harder on some holes. For the people that are just casually watching while on lunch break or a couple of days afterwards, the old scoring system makes more sense, we want to see the comparison of their round currently with how others have played the same holes.
I agree entirely and it actively annoys me to see the live scores so I skip forward. I find it a better viewer experience to keep the compeittiors scores hidden until the end so we can keep some mystique about a player like Paul or Ricky making an 2nd card push going into the final holes rather than judt knowing by hole 16
Generally agree, but I think I can get used to it. One thing I'd like to see is changing the "F" to a green color or something for a bit more of a visual indicator knowing that someone's finished.
@@connormcatee3580 I actually do like the change personally, but I see the issue for someone who doesn’t know the courses very well. I’ve been watching for years, so I understand what Nate is talking about. My friends who are just getting into disc golf and just watch this like it’s a tv show really don’t like the change.
In regards to the live scoring issue: The players also knows how many holes they have left to play, how they normally play those holes, what the conditions are like, how they are playing, and generally if they are on track or behind. The viewer doesn't have all that knowledge nor the ability to make the same deductions about where a score stands with less holes played. We can't tell if someone is on pace or falling off nearly as well from the lives scores as the players themselves can. Converting scores from the live scoring to holes played scoring brings the viewer's idea of how well the round is going comparatively much more in line with what the player knows about their own performance relative to the field. Additionally, most players say they don't change their game and start score watching until the final holes if it really matters anyway. Showing live scores to give a 'player's view' is really only important at the end of the final round, when commentary addresses it anyway.
I'm kind of lost because as a viewer I think I do know most of the things you listed. I know how many holes the Jomez card has left to play because I know how to count to 18 and how many rounds each tourney is (maybe some don't know 3 vs. 4 rounds, but most tourneys are just 3 and people will pick that up. I know what conditions are like from how the commentary describes it. I know how they're playing because they're on the lead card, plus I can go look at their previous round scores for more info if I really want. and this new score check-in exactly says whether they're on track or behind because we know that, e.g., Aderhold is -27 thru 15, so he's got 3 holes to beat out Jones who's -28 thru 6. Of course we can't keep up with hole to to hole field score changes, but if that's what you want then just watch live. If there's an argument to be made against the live scoring check-ins, it's just that the post-produced audience doesn't want to know the perspective of the player and instead wants a constructed perspective of the whole field playing each whole consecutively. There's nothing wrong with preferring that perspective over the player perspective, and if that's what viewers want then that's that. But I for one prefer the live scoring because I think the players' perspective is more interesting.
I hear you Nate, trying to counter some of the criticism in the comments about the new check-in format, but I disagree. I don't want to know how the competitor views the scores as he's playing, I want to see where everyone is at the same relative spot on the course. That builds more drama and interest, I think. With this, we don't get chase-card check ins, we don't get to watch other coverage and see how it looks for them... it's just one big spoiler. I'm already fast-forwarding through those segments, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I also fast forward through those check-ins now. Ezra being in the clubhouse further under par than someone on hole two does not put him in first place. It just means he’s had more opportunities to score.
Ideally...they would do it like ball golf. I don't mind the scores being shown. But it only works if you get more cameras out there and you show the lead card AND the chase card. All their shots. In real time as it's happening. And even mix in other players shots when warranted.
Love having coverage back! Great production as always. Please bring back score cards on display at all times though. It was great just having all the cards up at the bottom of the screen
Thanks guys! After living with it for 4 days, I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the new score bug. It doesn't work well if you're multitasking because the information on where everyone is at is only up every now and then. I liked it better when the scores were persistent on the screen. Still, small potatoes. Loving the coverage!
I would love to still see the scores of the players on the card. Maybe have them stacked on top of each other but have the players score who is throwing be larger then the others (if that makes sense) or go back to the 2022 format.
I absolutely hate the new scoreboard system. Its much better to see scores after players have completed the same number of holes instead of seeing players scores that have already finished. Also seeing all the players scores during the entirety of the hole was much better
I understand Nate’s point about the live score check in, but this isn’t live coverage, it’s post produced, so the drama in my head comes from the scores through 9. Who has a chance to catch up? Etc
I think this gives a really good sense of what the course is playing like, personally. It gives you information about not just the holes so far, but the holes ahead. Basically it tells how the players on the card are doing in relation to where they will need to get to. It also gives you an idea of how possible it is that someone on lead, chase, etc. overtakes the leader given how many strokes they are ahead.
It may be cool to use both methods: scores thru X and current scores. It would be fun to hear nate to a breakdown of how that info affects a player who needs X or more birdies to win. Where did he do better (or worse) on the previous holes compared to the leader? Where can he best make up the strokes based on his strengths? Etc.
i spent the entire round wondering what the score was. i think most of the jomez audience relies on the entire card's score to be visible. it helps keep the narrative and drama of the game in perspective as we watch! i'm really surprised how much this small change has affected the enjoyability of the coverage. please bring back full card score graphics!!! otherwise thanks for the coverage xo
@@chrisbondi5887 no one is talking about the score check-in every couple holes. The fuss is about the 4 player scorecard always on the screen but now hiding the scores when it matters. For example when Calvin is about to catch up to Kevin jones I wanna see the score comparison cuz I’m stupid and it makes it more hype
"i'm really surprised how much this small change has affected the enjoyability of the coverage" - Man this is so true. I was actually excited to try this new format, but it was constantly frustrating. I felt lost haha. Still undecided between live score leaderboard vs "through hole xx" leaderboard, but we absolutely have to have all the current cards scores on the screen with last 5 holes showing red/green/etc.
I appreciate Nate's comment about trying to provide a view from the perspective of the competitor. That's all nice and well, but I am not a competitor, and for me that new scoreboard really just diminishes the experience. This year's graphics and presentation are polished to the same level that is the reason why Jomez is the best coverage around, and it still is. But last year's graphics were simply better.
Yeah I really don't get his argument. What gameplans are competitors really coming up with at the beginning of their final round that is different once they see the scores of everyone else? Pretty sure everyone's goal is to birdie everything.
Regarding Nate's thoughts on 23:00, I understand what Jomez is trying to do here which is put you in the players shoes on what they see live hole by hole. This is not live footage though. This is post production which has the benefit of being able to show through hole X player Y was T3rd for example. Now the scores mean next to nothing they show because some players are through 16 holes while others are teeing off. I think the comments have been quite one sided on this topic and I really hope Jomez listens to the fans and goes back to the last multiple years method of showing scores. With all the negativity out of the way, I still love you Jomez and BigSexyBarry!
Thank you Nate for addressing our comments. I'm glad to know we aren't talking to a black hole here. As for the "live" leaderboard, it's different if we're watching live coverage and get to see the other cards, but that's not what Jomez is. Jomez is the post-produced lead card and we want to know how the lead card stacks up through the holes played, so we feel the drama as the round is played out. I would rather have check-ins to other cards like you did last year to see how the field is doing.
This is the answer. I think the old check in with a highlight if the top 2-3 scores as of that hole. Nobody really cares about current 5th place or lower but they do care about the head to head race with the additional check in.
I do think, as Nate said it, that the live check in can be an exiting feature to understand the decisions by the players. However, I think that only applies to final round coverage, as the decisions before won't really be affected and to the viewer of the post day coverage it would be more convenient to see the results hole per hole. So maybe the live check in wohld be cool for the check in after 3, 6, 12 and 15 in the final round, but i dont really like it otherwise
We usually get live score check-ins during final rounds whenever it matters anyway. While I agree that some comments are a little too harsh here, I hope they'll reconsider for upcoming tournaments.
Love the Coverage and the commentary. Ultimately I do prefer the old score bar on the bottom although I could probably get used to the minimal bar in the corner. I'm mixed on the switch to the live scoreboard. I was opposed until Nate's insight on hole 7. So good to have the pro tour back, can't wait till we're in the woods.
There seems to be a lot of info going on all at once with little time to take it in before the shot. I really hope they go back to the way it was last year. The scoring and everything was confusing and hard to keep pace with. As stated multiple times before, this is post coverage and not live. Sometimes less is more.
I do also miss being able to see each player's score through the round after they finish a hole. I think instead of showing the icon for what a player cards (eagle, birdie, par, bogey, etc.) they can use that space to show the player's score for the round thus far.
Personally it looks more professional just having the person throwing with their score. Then they show everyone at the end of the hole anyways. I think its a good change
Just to clarify, the live scoring check in is not something that I have much of an issue with. I liked having each players scorecard (the ones we are watching on Jomez coverage) along the bottom of the screen continuously and simultaneously throughout the round like how it was last year. You guys are awesome thank you so much for everything you do!
Its been a long winter, and I’m so glad the season is starting up again. I’ve been watching these videos for years and it makes me love disc golf so much more. Cheers everyone!!
Maybe the live scoring updates should be saved for final round only. That's when those live scores affect players' decision the most. That being said, I still think that the placement shown during every shot should show placement relative to the hole as opposed to where everyone else is on the course.
Great job guys and thank you! Excellent coverage, since we're doing feedback in the comment section here's my 2 cents. Yay: New theme song slaps, some of the panning camera work is really next level stuff, props to the camera crew! hole coverages, commentary. Nay: New graphics - preferred being able to see the live score of the card as you progressed, some echoy audio from the commentators, noticeable but didn't take me out of it. Love ya.
I'm glad he did. I mentioned it last round, that someone needed to explain it to quiet the masses. It's way better this way, and couldn't understand the insta-hate. Think it's funny how he explained it like he was talking his daughter down from a meltdown. Makes sense cause people were acting like children over it.
I understand Nate's explanation, and as a player on the featured card, that makes sense, but as someone who's watching the coverage I much prefer seeing the scores of each player at the same stage as the featured card. Jomez, please revert back to how you showed the leaderboard previously.
My gf said the music between holes sounds like Wii Sports, I’m thinking she’s just jealous I have something I love so much- thank you Jomez for the coverage and prompt upload!
Having the scores on the left like that is too tiny. I’d advise having them return to the bottom. Highest scores to the left and highlight who is currently throwing. -can get new viewers to know who’s throwing quicker
Also, the hole layout in blue during the introduction is odd. Out of bounds red. Green is good. Clean and simple is the way to go. You guys are doing great and just need a couple of tweaks.
I love the new animations on the scorecard! I wish we had the total score for each player present at all time, as it seems like there is just a small window to see who is in the lead at the end of each hole before the next hole preview.
Even the small score for each player that they stack on top in the bottom left after they make it would be enough if it was just always there I'd be happy. Then expand it still for whoever is throwing
Thank you for the explanation of the live check-in! 100% agree that knowing what the competitors knew at the time of the throw is useful information. Were Eagle's Tactic throws that never quite turned over a decision or a mistake?
Here's my cup of tea: save the "live score check-ins" to the finalB9. Only then it can get relevant for the players decision making. I would think everyone just tries to play their best game until it gets close, and the "old way" of showing score is more relevant to see how the players compare to the field.
They show the whole card as they finish every hole. You don't really need to see what the score is on the middle of the hole. It hasn't changed since the last hole.
I like Jomez commentary and production quality, but I hate spoilers. They destroy the fun. I get that knowing what the players now is of some value, but not being spoilered is worth much more from my perspective. The old jomez style had a better compromise imho.
AB going hard in the paint with the sunglasses About the scoreboard, I’m often forgetting who’s on the card I’m watching, and where each player stands. It’s a little more difficult to follow seeing on one at a time. Sometimes it’s interesting to see how different players throw their shots depending on score relative to card/leaders. Still, amazing coverage overall. Love seeing the disc selections and flight numbers as well, helps players relate to the course/conditions, and even develop players characters further(like someone being able to turn over a backhanded nuke OS, or something wild like that). Last suggestion on this fantastic presentation of disc golf pro scene would be coloring the OB red or yellow on the tee pad hole diagram graphic. Everything being a shade of blue makes it all blend together, heaven forbid you’re colorblind ❤ Edit: discredited Kevin’s tee shot on hole 2!
I really would like to see a video on how the pros handle fatigue and body aches and what different pros deal with regularly when it comes to such violent arm motions repeatedly. I get super sore from one 4 day weekend tournament. I don't know how these players keep up their pace....
Absolute only change I'd like is just show a name and score small in the corner at all times for all players on the card. No other sport (including ball golf) doesn't show the scores of all the playing teams/players on screen during play Imo you should be able to walk up to any sporting event without having watched any of it and instantly know the score and situation. This format doesn't necessarily accomplish that
Gotta love having a guy like Nate sexton involved with this sport and this coverage. So blessed. He gave us some insight into the score update, but didn’t tell us what he prefers as to not influence peoples decision. I really appreciate that. I look it like the chase card check in (which I love). I hate spoilers, but by the time I’m watching lead coverage on Jomez I don’t see how it’s a spoiler. And I guess I have to weigh in on the new score graphics. Initially I was surprised at such a big departure. A few times I wanted to know other scores while watching the current shot, but I find that having the shot count to far outweigh that slight inconvenience. Overall I love what y’all are doing and I think y’all are still making the correct design choices and innovating year after year.
Thank you for maturing with your music choices. The lead-in music was amazing and 10 steps up from the hyper-synthesized garbage that back-drops half the youtube vids these days. Loved it!
Yes, Nate! Glad you defended the live scoring system. I think it’s great. Also, I usually pause there to review scores because they scroll so darn quickly :)
loving the vibe of these videos this year, but seeing that live leaderboard is such a buzzkill. the implication of the red arrows that players have dropped places just because they haven't played yet seems so wrong. hopefully we can get back to the old format where we see the scores through the number of holes played so the leaderboard more accurately reflects how the win probability is playing out EDIT since Nate touched on this in the video I do think that there is some value in seeing the live scores, especially down the stretch. However, I believe that Jomez handled this very well last year when the commentators kept us informed when it was relevant, and possibly showed a graphic for it when needed (eg MVP open where Simon won from chase card). In fact I'd wager that the guys on this card weren't focused on keeping tabs on the people who are more than 10 strokes behind them at the beginning of the round, who just happen to be "ahead" of them after playing 18 extra holes on a scoreable course. Just some thoughts.
People need to stop complaining. I really like all the changes in the production for this year. Very excited to be watching disc golf again! Thank you jomez for the best content!
Dear Nate: The majority of complaints regarding the new scoring graphics seem to be more about lack of constant scores of card-mates during each hole, not the Live scoring update that's posted a few times per video. The live scoring updates are fine, but I can't stand not seeing constant scores on the bottom. It wasn't broken before, but Jomez wanted to fix it anyway..... I think that's the wrong move, don't get ahead of yourselves, don't fix what isn't broken. You can still optimize without an overhaul every year.
I miss having all the scores up at once. I watch while doing other things so it was nice to easily look over and follow the scores. Great to have diskgolf back!
as an editor myself, i want to say a major props to the graphics and editing team. every single year you guys blow it out of the water with raising the production value. PROPS TO THE EDITORS!
Yeah, but I prefer the old score card at the bottom
Love the changes. So slick and clean
Especially after pumping out the FPO first this year
WOO HOO BROTHER!!!! YEEHAW!!!
infrastructure wise the whole presentation is great. The only change should be to nix the darker blue as a the dominant color on the hole maps. I get the theming but the primary color, the green, should be used. Reserving the dark blue for water
Hi Nate. I want to chime in, in response to your comments about the leaderboard check-in. I think the system that was essentially in place last year is very much preferred, where the little number next to the players' score shows where they are at relative to where everyone in the field was after that hole, BUT, the specific, periodic "leaderboard check-ins" show the "live as it stands" perspective. I think a lot of what people love about the old system is that it allows us, the spectator, to know *new* information that is quite interesting, it gives a sense of "pace" to how the players are doing relative to where other players were. I really hope that Jomez decides to go back to showing players' positions relative to the hole, but I can also understand your perspective as well. At the end of the day, it's a small quibble on what is the absolute gold standard of coverage and commentary.
I think it’s best if they go back for the early rounds and go to live scoring for the final round only. Nate’s point stands but the early round live scores aren’t relevant hole to hole
I completely agree with Joshua. Understanding the live-as-it-stands scoring requires more calibration to account for specific hole difficulty and position.
The time we get, as viewers, to see the live score is not enough to interpret all that information. Looking back and forth between score, leaderboard position, and hole position, all while the top of the leaderboard quickly scrolls off the screen is practically impossible.
I would need to pause the video and study the new scoreboard to understand it.
The ending of this video showed the live leader for a grand total of 7 seconds before that score was no longer visible. I can’t back-calculate how good that is versus 10 other players at various positions on the course in that short amount of time.
The total checkin time after hole 6 was 30 seconds, and almost every player was at a different spot on the course. The leader was visible for 3 seconds on that checkin. That’s not a enough time to compare against the other 10 or 15 players.
Yes, the players do all of this interpretation on the course while spending 3-5 hours in each round with an intimate understanding of every hole.
The complex assessment is too much to ask of casual viewers within 3 to 50 seconds of automatic scrolling. I’d wager that the Jomez guys wouldn’t be able to interpret it within this presentation format/timing if they hadn’t spent all day watching it happen live.
This live checkin would have been great at the end of the 2022 MVP Open when only a few players were in contention. I can’t think of many other times when I would have preferred this live scoring.
The live scoring has a potential advantage in the last round when only a few players are still in contention.
But the old presentation is easier to understand and better in almost all other contexts.
Not gonna stop me from watching, but throwing my hat in with everyone wanting the change back to the leaderboard and scorecards. It's not live coverage, we don't need "live" scores. Loving where everything else is at.
Agreed 100% the live board provides zero value (for me).
It's not "live" but it's an accurate snapshot of what was happening at that moment. If we start the round with Kevin at -26 and it shows Ezra also at -26 thru hole 10 at 8 down for the round, then it tells you the pace the lead card needs to maintain to stay ahead, and overall whether the wind is a big factor or not.
The only real case for the old way is if you just want to be surprised if/when someone from the chase card card comes back to challenge or win.
@@daemn42 Isn't that what the place indicators are for? If someone makes a bogey and drops down to 5th or lower, you know someone on another card is beating that person.
@daemn42 I understand how/why it works, I catch what live coverage I can in disc and regular golf. Just doesn't fit well with what we come to Jomez for the day after, the results and live streams/recaps are already out there. They can give us a more concise narrative hole-for-hole than watching live can.
I love you guys, I've tried live coverage but you are simply so much better than live!
That being said, could you please bring back the old way of showing the scores of the card?
In my opinion you nailed it, it was so much superior to other producers but now it's gone.
I really loved how you were able to see everything at pretty much one glance while not being confusing or taking up too much screen space.
I second this whole-heartedly! Love what Jomez does, and don't want to blame or discourage them for trying something new, but in this case I feel like the old way was better. I also preferred when the leaderboards were shown as though the whole field was at the same position as the feature card. I find the "real-time" version very confusing and difficult to judge how individual players are doing.
Loving the coverage! Thanks for all of the high quality editing and commentary! One piece of constructive criticism, could you please show all of the players scorecards the whole time? It makes it much easier to follow things! Thank you!
love the coverage, dont love the new graphics. I like being able to see everyones score during the whole hole.
I think the live look in scoring is better when you are more involved in the tournament. If I’m there, I want to know what the scores are and what’s going on. If I know more of the mindset of the players with the upcoming holes, it explains more about when the leaders lay up or push harder on some holes.
For the people that are just casually watching while on lunch break or a couple of days afterwards, the old scoring system makes more sense, we want to see the comparison of their round currently with how others have played the same holes.
I agree entirely and it actively annoys me to see the live scores so I skip forward. I find it a better viewer experience to keep the compeittiors scores hidden until the end so we can keep some mystique about a player like Paul or Ricky making an 2nd card push going into the final holes rather than judt knowing by hole 16
Generally agree, but I think I can get used to it. One thing I'd like to see is changing the "F" to a green color or something for a bit more of a visual indicator knowing that someone's finished.
disagree with this take as someone that avoids spoilers as well. loving the change !
Exactly, Sexton is saying that as a player and completely oblivious to what the average fan wants to see.
@@connormcatee3580 I actually do like the change personally, but I see the issue for someone who doesn’t know the courses very well. I’ve been watching for years, so I understand what Nate is talking about. My friends who are just getting into disc golf and just watch this like it’s a tv show really don’t like the change.
About time I’ve been trying to do nothing at work all day
But thanks anyways jomez, best coverage out there ❤
Nice job you must have
Lmao sameeee
Bro same! I’ve been trying so hard to stay off social media too! 😅
Now if we could only get the back 9
It is Monday after all lol
In regards to the live scoring issue:
The players also knows how many holes they have left to play, how they normally play those holes, what the conditions are like, how they are playing, and generally if they are on track or behind. The viewer doesn't have all that knowledge nor the ability to make the same deductions about where a score stands with less holes played. We can't tell if someone is on pace or falling off nearly as well from the lives scores as the players themselves can. Converting scores from the live scoring to holes played scoring brings the viewer's idea of how well the round is going comparatively much more in line with what the player knows about their own performance relative to the field. Additionally, most players say they don't change their game and start score watching until the final holes if it really matters anyway. Showing live scores to give a 'player's view' is really only important at the end of the final round, when commentary addresses it anyway.
I'm kind of lost because as a viewer I think I do know most of the things you listed. I know how many holes the Jomez card has left to play because I know how to count to 18 and how many rounds each tourney is (maybe some don't know 3 vs. 4 rounds, but most tourneys are just 3 and people will pick that up. I know what conditions are like from how the commentary describes it. I know how they're playing because they're on the lead card, plus I can go look at their previous round scores for more info if I really want. and this new score check-in exactly says whether they're on track or behind because we know that, e.g., Aderhold is -27 thru 15, so he's got 3 holes to beat out Jones who's -28 thru 6. Of course we can't keep up with hole to to hole field score changes, but if that's what you want then just watch live.
If there's an argument to be made against the live scoring check-ins, it's just that the post-produced audience doesn't want to know the perspective of the player and instead wants a constructed perspective of the whole field playing each whole consecutively. There's nothing wrong with preferring that perspective over the player perspective, and if that's what viewers want then that's that. But I for one prefer the live scoring because I think the players' perspective is more interesting.
I hear you Nate, trying to counter some of the criticism in the comments about the new check-in format, but I disagree. I don't want to know how the competitor views the scores as he's playing, I want to see where everyone is at the same relative spot on the course. That builds more drama and interest, I think. With this, we don't get chase-card check ins, we don't get to watch other coverage and see how it looks for them... it's just one big spoiler. I'm already fast-forwarding through those segments, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I also fast forward through those check-ins now. Ezra being in the clubhouse further under par than someone on hole two does not put him in first place. It just means he’s had more opportunities to score.
Ideally...they would do it like ball golf. I don't mind the scores being shown. But it only works if you get more cameras out there and you show the lead card AND the chase card. All their shots. In real time as it's happening. And even mix in other players shots when warranted.
Love having coverage back! Great production as always.
Please bring back score cards on display at all times though. It was great just having all the cards up at the bottom of the screen
Thanks guys!
After living with it for 4 days, I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the new score bug. It doesn't work well if you're multitasking because the information on where everyone is at is only up every now and then. I liked it better when the scores were persistent on the screen.
Still, small potatoes. Loving the coverage!
Yes agree! This is super hard to follow.
When it’s live coverage you always have UDisc to keep track of scores.
Now it’s just confusing and annoying
Yes good way to put it into words
I would love to still see the scores of the players on the card. Maybe have them stacked on top of each other but have the players score who is throwing be larger then the others (if that makes sense) or go back to the 2022 format.
I agree, I want to see the whole card's scores in one glance.
No
I absolutely hate the new scoreboard system. Its much better to see scores after players have completed the same number of holes instead of seeing players scores that have already finished. Also seeing all the players scores during the entirety of the hole was much better
Best coverage and commentary by far... one request though, could you show their round score as well as overall?
I understand Nate’s point about the live score check in, but this isn’t live coverage, it’s post produced, so the drama in my head comes from the scores through 9. Who has a chance to catch up? Etc
Maybe I was just zoned out or something, when did he talk about it?
Edit: end of hole 6 I went back and found it 😅
I think this gives a really good sense of what the course is playing like, personally. It gives you information about not just the holes so far, but the holes ahead. Basically it tells how the players on the card are doing in relation to where they will need to get to. It also gives you an idea of how possible it is that someone on lead, chase, etc. overtakes the leader given how many strokes they are ahead.
It may be cool to use both methods: scores thru X and current scores. It would be fun to hear nate to a breakdown of how that info affects a player who needs X or more birdies to win. Where did he do better (or worse) on the previous holes compared to the leader? Where can he best make up the strokes based on his strengths? Etc.
i spent the entire round wondering what the score was. i think most of the jomez audience relies on the entire card's score to be visible. it helps keep the narrative and drama of the game in perspective as we watch! i'm really surprised how much this small change has affected the enjoyability of the coverage. please bring back full card score graphics!!! otherwise thanks for the coverage xo
Agree! This doesn’t make it enjoyable to watch :/
Current score of all 4 players is very important
I agree 100%
@@chrisbondi5887 no one is talking about the score check-in every couple holes. The fuss is about the 4 player scorecard always on the screen but now hiding the scores when it matters. For example when Calvin is about to catch up to Kevin jones I wanna see the score comparison cuz I’m stupid and it makes it more hype
"i'm really surprised how much this small change has affected the enjoyability of the coverage" - Man this is so true. I was actually excited to try this new format, but it was constantly frustrating. I felt lost haha. Still undecided between live score leaderboard vs "through hole xx" leaderboard, but we absolutely have to have all the current cards scores on the screen with last 5 holes showing red/green/etc.
Feels good to be finishing up the first event of the year. Here’s to many more hours of watching disc golf on Jomez in 2023! 🎉
I appreciate Nate's comment about trying to provide a view from the perspective of the competitor. That's all nice and well, but I am not a competitor, and for me that new scoreboard really just diminishes the experience. This year's graphics and presentation are polished to the same level that is the reason why Jomez is the best coverage around, and it still is. But last year's graphics were simply better.
Yeah I really don't get his argument. What gameplans are competitors really coming up with at the beginning of their final round that is different once they see the scores of everyone else? Pretty sure everyone's goal is to birdie everything.
Regarding Nate's thoughts on 23:00, I understand what Jomez is trying to do here which is put you in the players shoes on what they see live hole by hole. This is not live footage though. This is post production which has the benefit of being able to show through hole X player Y was T3rd for example. Now the scores mean next to nothing they show because some players are through 16 holes while others are teeing off. I think the comments have been quite one sided on this topic and I really hope Jomez listens to the fans and goes back to the last multiple years method of showing scores. With all the negativity out of the way, I still love you Jomez and BigSexyBarry!
Completely agree with all points made. I really hope Jomez doesn't dig their heels in on this one.
Having all scores up at once needs to come back! Otherwise amazing coverage as usual!
Thank you Nate for addressing our comments. I'm glad to know we aren't talking to a black hole here. As for the "live" leaderboard, it's different if we're watching live coverage and get to see the other cards, but that's not what Jomez is. Jomez is the post-produced lead card and we want to know how the lead card stacks up through the holes played, so we feel the drama as the round is played out. I would rather have check-ins to other cards like you did last year to see how the field is doing.
This!
This is the answer. I think the old check in with a highlight if the top 2-3 scores as of that hole. Nobody really cares about current 5th place or lower but they do care about the head to head race with the additional check in.
I do think, as Nate said it, that the live check in can be an exiting feature to understand the decisions by the players. However, I think that only applies to final round coverage, as the decisions before won't really be affected and to the viewer of the post day coverage it would be more convenient to see the results hole per hole. So maybe the live check in wohld be cool for the check in after 3, 6, 12 and 15 in the final round, but i dont really like it otherwise
We usually get live score check-ins during final rounds whenever it matters anyway.
While I agree that some comments are a little too harsh here, I hope they'll reconsider for upcoming tournaments.
Please give us a back a scorecard where we can see the scores at all times.
Love the Coverage and the commentary. Ultimately I do prefer the old score bar on the bottom although I could probably get used to the minimal bar in the corner.
I'm mixed on the switch to the live scoreboard. I was opposed until Nate's insight on hole 7.
So good to have the pro tour back, can't wait till we're in the woods.
There seems to be a lot of info going on all at once with little time to take it in before the shot. I really hope they go back to the way it was last year. The scoring and everything was confusing and hard to keep pace with. As stated multiple times before, this is post coverage and not live. Sometimes less is more.
Petition for Jomez to change the graphics back to where you can see all four players scores.
Graphic* 🤣🤣🤡🤡
I do also miss being able to see each player's score through the round after they finish a hole. I think instead of showing the icon for what a player cards (eagle, birdie, par, bogey, etc.) they can use that space to show the player's score for the round thus far.
Personally it looks more professional just having the person throwing with their score. Then they show everyone at the end of the hole anyways. I think its a good change
No
Kept refreshing for a while now, glad it’s finally here! Thanks JomezPro!!!
Please return to the old scoreboard. It was much clearer in my opinion.
Really loving the camera work, especially the putts on hole 6. Single camera panning from shot to shot was awesome!
Just to clarify, the live scoring check in is not something that I have much of an issue with. I liked having each players scorecard (the ones we are watching on Jomez coverage) along the bottom of the screen continuously and simultaneously throughout the round like how it was last year. You guys are awesome thank you so much for everything you do!
Its been a long winter, and I’m so glad the season is starting up again. I’ve been watching these videos for years and it makes me love disc golf so much more. Cheers everyone!!
Thank you for posting Tee disc usage! So great.
Maybe the live scoring updates should be saved for final round only. That's when those live scores affect players' decision the most. That being said, I still think that the placement shown during every shot should show placement relative to the hole as opposed to where everyone else is on the course.
I don't mind the way they do it, as it presents a complete picture. Only thing that threw me was seeing the live update before the round had started.
I enjoy the updates I feel more emeresed
Been waiting all day. Thanks for producing such great content!
Great job guys and thank you! Excellent coverage, since we're doing feedback in the comment section here's my 2 cents. Yay: New theme song slaps, some of the panning camera work is really next level stuff, props to the camera crew! hole coverages, commentary. Nay: New graphics - preferred being able to see the live score of the card as you progressed, some echoy audio from the commentators, noticeable but didn't take me out of it. Love ya.
11:33 - Can we buy Eagle a 1-metre tape, please?
Thanks, JomezPro - you are consistent and superb. As always!
Thanks Mr. Sexton for explaining the live scores
What a crazy good card to start the season!
I love Nate's description of the live scoring and couldnt agree more.
Same, it gives so much more insight to how the lead card players choose to attack each hole
I'm glad he did. I mentioned it last round, that someone needed to explain it to quiet the masses. It's way better this way, and couldn't understand the insta-hate. Think it's funny how he explained it like he was talking his daughter down from a meltdown. Makes sense cause people were acting like children over it.
@@MuddyPuttersDG yeah one of the very best things about post produced got taken away, that's sad actually.
But BigSexyBarry will usually drop the "live" stats during the conclusions of the round if it actually comes close. I'd much rather have that.
I understand Nate's explanation, and as a player on the featured card, that makes sense, but as someone who's watching the coverage I much prefer seeing the scores of each player at the same stage as the featured card. Jomez, please revert back to how you showed the leaderboard previously.
Thank you Jomez for the great coverage as always!
My gf said the music between holes sounds like Wii Sports, I’m thinking she’s just jealous I have something I love so much- thank you Jomez for the coverage and prompt upload!
I would be happy to see any of these guys win the tournament. What a final day lead card to start off the season!
“Making minis folks” haha! 😂 10/10
Having the scores on the left like that is too tiny. I’d advise having them return to the bottom. Highest scores to the left and highlight who is currently throwing. -can get new viewers to know who’s throwing quicker
Also, the hole layout in blue during the introduction is odd. Out of bounds red. Green is good. Clean and simple is the way to go. You guys are doing great and just need a couple of tweaks.
Watched the live coverage already, but damn those intros get me hyped up!
Great coverage love watching, the new intro song is so good imo👍🏻
Watched this event somewhat live but I will always come back to Jomez for the amazing production you guys put out!
Vin-illa Ice strikes again! What a great finish to kick off the season, bravo everyone!
Love the Current Standings updates!
Good point from Nate about the live scoring
Thank you for clarifying the leaderboard thing! Love it!
26:54 jerm - "oh they're making minis folks"
that was a 1000 rated call right there
What a tournament to start off the year!
Already back rewatching this.
I love the new animations on the scorecard! I wish we had the total score for each player present at all time, as it seems like there is just a small window to see who is in the lead at the end of each hole before the next hole preview.
Even the small score for each player that they stack on top in the bottom left after they make it would be enough if it was just always there I'd be happy. Then expand it still for whoever is throwing
Thank you for the explanation of the live check-in! 100% agree that knowing what the competitors knew at the time of the throw is useful information. Were Eagle's Tactic throws that never quite turned over a decision or a mistake?
Here's my cup of tea: save the "live score check-ins" to the finalB9. Only then it can get relevant for the players decision making. I would think everyone just tries to play their best game until it gets close, and the "old way" of showing score is more relevant to see how the players compare to the field.
This is the prettiest disc golf coverage I think I’ve ever seen.
Show us the score of the entire card, just like you've done before
They show the whole card as they finish every hole. You don't really need to see what the score is on the middle of the hole. It hasn't changed since the last hole.
Thank you team Jomez. 🙏
I like Jomez commentary and production quality, but I hate spoilers. They destroy the fun. I get that knowing what the players now is of some value, but not being spoilered is worth much more from my perspective. The old jomez style had a better compromise imho.
Love the graphics and live look leaderboard
Just noticed the stroke percentage above the map! Love it👌🏻
Pinnacle of quality editing, filming, and commentary.
LOVING THE LIVE CHECK IN
I like the new graphics. I am new to watching disc golf and to be able to learn who the players are by the graphics is a big help. Thanks
Boys are lookin tired at the end there lol, respect for letting us watch you play and then letting us listen to you commentate🔥 y’all killin it
“They’re makin’ minis, folks!”
Lmao, that’s a new one for me…
AB going hard in the paint with the sunglasses
About the scoreboard, I’m often forgetting who’s on the card I’m watching, and where each player stands. It’s a little more difficult to follow seeing on one at a time. Sometimes it’s interesting to see how different players throw their shots depending on score relative to card/leaders.
Still, amazing coverage overall. Love seeing the disc selections and flight numbers as well, helps players relate to the course/conditions, and even develop players characters further(like someone being able to turn over a backhanded nuke OS, or something wild like that).
Last suggestion on this fantastic presentation of disc golf pro scene would be coloring the OB red or yellow on the tee pad hole diagram graphic. Everything being a shade of blue makes it all blend together, heaven forbid you’re colorblind
❤
Edit: discredited Kevin’s tee shot on hole 2!
Jerm: “It’s just how a disc dreams to fly. It wants to be in the air like that”
Nate: “Not my disc”
😂😂😂
Digging the video preview graphics. Good job Jomez production team. Always leading the way in the field
I really would like to see a video on how the pros handle fatigue and body aches and what different pros deal with regularly when it comes to such violent arm motions repeatedly. I get super sore from one 4 day weekend tournament. I don't know how these players keep up their pace....
I do like the live scoring, especially for the last round
Amazing UI for throws and score during play here, so easy to follow!
Nate had a great point about the live coverage. Keep up the great work guys :)
Big Jerm's "they're making minis folks" got me on hole 8 🤣😂🤣😂
Your guys content is just so on point and I love it, and I love disc golf, and I love you guys!!!!!
26:42 - "They're making minis folks" -Big Jerm.
CLASSIC!
yeah, followed by 5 seconds of Nate and Paul silently thinking whether comment it further, or rather not. :D
Jomez has the highest quality commentary and it's not even close
Not sure why some are complaining about the changes jomez has made in there videos.. I love it
Absolute only change I'd like is just show a name and score small in the corner at all times for all players on the card. No other sport (including ball golf) doesn't show the scores of all the playing teams/players on screen during play
Imo you should be able to walk up to any sporting event without having watched any of it and instantly know the score and situation. This format doesn't necessarily accomplish that
I would keep the old scoring graphics… much easier to follow
INTRO MUSIC SLAPPS. FLAMES🔥🔥🔥
This card is awesome. That Calvin stomp had me hype.
Gotta love having a guy like Nate sexton involved with this sport and this coverage. So blessed.
He gave us some insight into the score update, but didn’t tell us what he prefers as to not influence peoples decision. I really appreciate that.
I look it like the chase card check in (which I love). I hate spoilers, but by the time I’m watching lead coverage on Jomez I don’t see how it’s a spoiler.
And I guess I have to weigh in on the new score graphics. Initially I was surprised at such a big departure. A few times I wanted to know other scores while watching the current shot, but I find that having the shot count to far outweigh that slight inconvenience.
Overall I love what y’all are doing and I think y’all are still making the correct design choices and innovating year after year.
Best part of the day!
I love the live score checkin. Keep it coming!
Live check ins between the holes are good and make a lot of sense
26:54 - best comment for disc on disc action
Thank you for maturing with your music choices. The lead-in music was amazing and 10 steps up from the hyper-synthesized garbage that back-drops half the youtube vids these days. Loved it!
Regardless of the intention of the leaderboard, we're watching post-produced content. If I wanted to watch the live drama, I'd be watching it live...
Yes, Nate! Glad you defended the live scoring system. I think it’s great. Also, I usually pause there to review scores because they scroll so darn quickly :)
Loving the steadycam footage
Calvin had the deadly putting game this weekend
loving the vibe of these videos this year, but seeing that live leaderboard is such a buzzkill. the implication of the red arrows that players have dropped places just because they haven't played yet seems so wrong. hopefully we can get back to the old format where we see the scores through the number of holes played so the leaderboard more accurately reflects how the win probability is playing out
EDIT since Nate touched on this in the video
I do think that there is some value in seeing the live scores, especially down the stretch. However, I believe that Jomez handled this very well last year when the commentators kept us informed when it was relevant, and possibly showed a graphic for it when needed (eg MVP open where Simon won from chase card). In fact I'd wager that the guys on this card weren't focused on keeping tabs on the people who are more than 10 strokes behind them at the beginning of the round, who just happen to be "ahead" of them after playing 18 extra holes on a scoreable course. Just some thoughts.
@@chrisbondi5887 but that’s not the most entertaining as a viewer of post produced coverage. The whole point is that it isn’t raw. That’s on DGN
Exactly. Seeing the scores as the player sees it means absolutely nothing to the next day viewer who could instead be looking at meaningful data.
Can’t wait to see the final 9! This was suspenseful! 🔥🔥🔥
People need to stop complaining. I really like all the changes in the production for this year. Very excited to be watching disc golf again! Thank you jomez for the best content!
Dear Nate:
The majority of complaints regarding the new scoring graphics seem to be more about lack of constant scores of card-mates during each hole, not the Live scoring update that's posted a few times per video.
The live scoring updates are fine, but I can't stand not seeing constant scores on the bottom. It wasn't broken before, but Jomez wanted to fix it anyway.....
I think that's the wrong move, don't get ahead of yourselves, don't fix what isn't broken. You can still optimize without an overhaul every year.
Jerm: "Ohh they're makin' minis folks"