Nah it’s just the delusional average players. Especially in this expac since M+ is now harder so it’s pushing more casual players into harder content. So that’s creating a rift between the players even more. The ones who struggle to time 10s and the ones who are more middle of pack 12~
@@jonwhite7328 Their rankings are entirely based off of the highest key level ever completed by that spec. It's a terrible way to rank specs in a tier list.
@@jonwhite7328because alot of people who play hunter want to play range. Which is understandable. Survival in my favourite to play but I do wish it was range like the old days.
@@jonwhite7328 because people will always look only at the S tier unfortunately. SV is killing it right now, great spec, great damage, survivability, everything. but its not enhc, aug, frostdk or assa rogue
@dromihetes If it is, it's dead wrong. Arms and survival has done higher keys than all warlocks and same as assassination, and higher than monk, for example.
How do you put fury in front of Retri, and then show a clip of the best fury in the world with 70& of the overall dmg of the paladin? Also we dont have brez, no imune, no freedom and one of the worst single targets in the game...
@ yea and prot war is better than fury exactly you just proved my point lmao you literally played yourself Unless fury is just doing that much more dps.
If a Retribution Paladin doesn’t ignore avoidable damage (which 80% of people do), there aren’t many ahead of me, and I’ve been playing WW for a long time. Mobility is more important than raw damage in M+, I run 10+ keys, and my friend has been playing Retribution since Wrath of the Lich King.
Ret Pala and especially Assassination Rogue are S tier (Ret is at least high A tier), today in the international MDI EVERYONE had an Assassination Rogue and they topped the meters in almost every round.
outlaw does 400 000more dps then ret and 200 000 more then assa. MDI is Not high keys. People are doing 9 10 11key level with 636ilvl gear my dude. MDI is SPEED Running.
@@havtor007 Fair enough, still Gingi and Echo who are pushing 15-16 keys and 3.2k + rating have always played Assassin with Kush playing in all rounds. It seems like Assassin is the to go spec for M+ mate wherever I look. That being MDI and high keys with Echo and Gingi.
based, people struggle doing this in +15s with specs that mathematically do more than Demo, you may have stumbled onto a sleeper build on a sleeper spec on a sleeper class
I’m really curious about how you create this tier list, especially since the game is always changing. I’d like to understand the process so I don’t have to rely on you guys as much.
Well, in every tier list I walk you through how we process and parse the data, the rest is getting the data from all sorts of sources, like warcraftlogs, raider.io, archon.gg etc
@@tonyr6180 Wouldn’t it be logical to assume that if a class performs well at the highest keys, it would also perform well at lower keys? For instance, I’m a Hunter with a 1888 rating, and my goal is to reach 2500. Since Survival is performing better at higher keys, does it make sense for me to consider switching?
@@_TheUnMovedMover Not necessarily. The size of the pulls varies quite a bit based upon the key level. Like Necrotic Wake on a +9 or higher expect to do the lust mega pull off the rip. And certain classes have different numbers of targets their AOE hits, some classes are better at doing damage to packs that live longer, etc. Like FDK isn't even that amazing until +10s and higher. Survival is just fine to get to 2500 and you have lust which can get you into groups for that reason alone sometimes.
@@tonyr6180 So, based on what you're telling me, for example, with this tier list, like how Frost is ranked at S-tier, you're saying it wouldn’t perform better than other classes in Mythic+ levels 0-10? It would only start being an S-tier spec once it hits level 10? Does that mean this list is only relevant for the highest keys? Most players, like me, aren’t even aiming that high-for instance, my only goal is to reach 2.5k before switching to another class. I am really curious because I am just trying to understand the game and to get better at it.
GREAT video bro, thank you. One request tho, I noticed you mentioned wowlogs as a source. Can you cite all your sources please. for example the graph you show @1330 would be really good just for folks like me who like to cross reference sources. keep up the good work man!
Love your videos guys but this has to be the worst tier list you've ever made. Survival since last patch is in the top 4 of damage done in a key overall are C Tier, while Havoc which is the top 3 worst is B Tier? WW In the same tier as Ret and Unholy? Demo in the same tier as fire or MM?
I was gonna play frost, but I decided to pick unholy. I'm pretty happy with thar decision. It seems like Unholy sort of has a massive skill ceiling rotation-wise. Im playing it with really low haste and its crazy how much a single suboptimal gcd can impact your dps, this is true for other specs too, but very big for Unholy. Particularly with the passive festering wound applications from Death and Decay, and your minion. It changes whether or not you need to manually apply festering strike on your next cooldown. This is such a big deal in aoe (bc of festermight) that if the probability of a passive wound being applied reaches a certain threshold, you can just wait for a small moment of time until it gets passively applied, then scourge strike it.
I would be tempted to put SV Hunter into the B tier. I've been playing my alt in mid level keys (6-9) and topping the damage in M+ more often than not against other more meta DPS classes in equivalent gear. I've managed to beat Arcane Mages, Ret Palas, Balance druids, UH DKs, and even a couple of Enhancement Shammys. The other classes you have listed in C tier tend to be left in the dust. I think the reason that SV Hunter isn't played as much in M+ yet is because it lacks utility compared to other similar options, and it simply can't compete with the DPS of the S tier melee specs that seem to be in every high key. I can understand why people wouldn't want to drop a Frost DK or an Enh Shaman for a SV Hunter.
WW over Ret is cap .. i have both in high gear 630 and ret is the better spec ... u way more tanky u have way more helping tools .. u have cd every pack and u can also attack in range witch is a huge thing in my opinion... WW has a bit better ST dmg and a legsweap but u suck in big AOE and u die to random hits fairly easy when ret just stands his ground... mystic touch is ok but deffaura also better + br on pala ... i love monk and its my main but currently its just not worth playing in my opinion
@@KeViNaNoViC completely agree, I've mained monk since BFA and currently it is terrible. We are completely garbage in mass aoe pulls and the only example he gave of a high ww monk is dabnel who even admits he is currently just being carried by an over-tuned enhance shaman. Our M+ utility toolkit is ofc amazing, but our inability to dish out AOE damage makes the spec, as you say, not worth playing.
Tier lists should not exist, honestly. People trying to push m+ to the limits will aways use whatever brings that 5-7% more dps of an "S tier spec", because they want to push to the LIMITS. That's just making 2000 IO players thinks everything else SUCKS. Wich is NOT the case to complete any key below 12. I'm tired of seing "META COMPS" breaking keys over and over... still, no-meta class doesnt even has a chance to join a group. This is wrong.
But This is not wrong at all. you just described exactly what does tier list is. this tier list is trying to say what is giving the extra 5 to 7%. it’s not seeing any other these classes are bad but if you had to rank them. You are right players with low ratings don’t understand the dungeons yet alone classes and most players would probably not understand what this list is saying. but that’s not a tier list issue that’s the wow community
Anyone that actually plays the game understands to take tier lists with a grain of salt. There’s way too many factors. Which dungeon are you doing? How big are you pulling? If you aren’t doing MDI pulls, Unholy is mediocre, 5-targets Ret is king.
Ret is ranked too low. One of the highest damage melee specs combined with a ton of utility and great defenses with emergency self heals when needed. It's almost neck and neck with Frost DK in most areas and has a more overall consistent damage profile from pack to pack. At least this is how I feel after having pushed both specs to around the 2800 range. FDK obviously has that ability to completely erase a pack with all CDs popped, but that's not even crucial to have in M+ until you're getting to that +14 and higher keystone level. I think overall ranking these classes by the highest key levels they have ever completed leads to a very inaccurate perception of how good classes are. Sure you can use it to help guide your tier list, but using it as the basis for your whole tier list is very out of touch. Like fury for example is nowhere near as good as Ret, Windwalker, even unholy at the moment from a straight up logical perspective looking at their toolkits, but their are some very good players that always main the spec such as Critcake so those keys could be higher from that alone, but that does not at all mean that spec is a better spec. I think you guys need to look at damage overall and at different keystone levels, how many defensives they have, how useful their utility is for the specific dungeons in the rotation this season, and how the spec feels to play for 95% of the player-base in Mythic+. Saying hey X spec is A-tier because some 8/8 Mythic raider completed some +15 keys with it is very misleading and most people that watch this channel I would guess can't relate to and do not care about how the +14 and higher bracket is doing.
@@markuslc1888 there is no reason for, you get to choose 1 out of 3 623 item vaults. what is the reason "IO" thats boring af. all you need to do is 8's
@coctailandy5864 first of all, wtf needs 8s?.you need 10s to get myth track in the vault and the difference between hc and myth track is huge. and 2nd tier lists are about high end, if u don't care about the 1% best, then tierlists are completely ignoreable for you...nb cares about 8-10weekly no leaver keys. the high end shows the potential of a spec and the balancing, everything else doesn't matter!
Don’t think this tier list reflects well on the current buffs just looks at overall performance of s1. Obviously a cracked out survival hunter isn’t going to participate in 16s because 1. They just got buffed and are catching up and 2.most groups who run 16s are in their designed groups thats been working. Which is why despite buffs or nerfs you’ll see frost dk enhancement sham and aug evo in s tier for the remainder of the season.
I’ve been out dpsing pretty much everyone as demonology in the 2700 io range including the meta specs. I’m not playing felguard even though they buffed it just because 3 big minions plus 10+ imps is hard to pull off in m+ with movement. It simmed only 9k higher than the premier build for me so I’m pretty sure it’s a dps loss when not played the way the sim calculates it
21:40 Ele gets nerfed because Blizzard's pastime is ignoring Ele until it starts doing well, then slapping it back into the stone age. They reworked classes in Dragonflight three times without addressing Ele issues once. Rolling into TWW, they finally get around to addressing some problems. But they don't understand the spec as well as they thought. It starts performing better than they like, and then the nerf bat comes out of hiding. They don't make moderate adjustments in either direction. It seems like they're incapable of doing so with Ele because they pay so little attention to it. Soon as they get it back to the lower half of statistical performance, they'll go back to ignoring it for a few more expansions.
@@tonyr6180 You're literally the 5th most pushing spec out of 26 lmfao.... If you're not pumping, something's definitely wrong with you. Logs don't lie.
Nice ranking (honestly just clicked to Fury, Enha/Ele and Destro) yet still I remain Destro. You know why? Because it is STILL THE E-FING SAME since like Legion, all the procs, relations between spells etc. still the same. Diabolist added some flavour but still, all the other specs always change and try something new, but Destro is like sharks, perfect for eons. Simple spec to graps, complex if you want to squeze every number out of it, but still THE SAME, so I just learned it after those years so much, I dont even use any recomended build, just clicked like: Yeah I like these effects of flying green shit here and there, Oh I like that this affects that, I am gonna use it. I build exactly the same lock as in Legion (except having my infernal as perma pet, still crying...) If you like odschool casters, play destro.
it wasn’t Gingi who I was referring to, but the rank 1 boomy at the time, name starts with a Y, can’t remember. I met Gingi, how the fuck would i not know who he is lol :))
Yeah sometimes frost dk in pugs with bad players defeinitly feels like shit with low dmg, but if you get a more cordinated group, where the tank pulls bigger frost dk is definitly very good. Sadly the first scenario happens way more often.
I mean the fact that you say “you’re probably not going to want to bring a shadow priest into your group unless you can’t find a disc” and continue to say the damage is pretty good is a huge problem with M+. This is just one of the examples.
I do not agree with the ret pally placement, id take one over many of those other classes. The difference between a good ret pally and a great ret pally is their uptime on Shake the Heavens buff. Ret also has great utility as well, off heals in a pinch, AoE interrupt with blinding light and also their blessings and invulnerable.
All true points, still have nothing to do with where Ret is. Like it as much as you like, there's a reason it is where it is and ignoring the reason to state your own opinion doesn't make for a interesting discussion :)
Yea but the problem is also just have your ret paladin play proc and problem solved infinitely better team composition. They arent offering anything special or better than other top dps specs while not doing as much dps as them. They arent bad its just the ret paladin isnt enabling anything special in the composition nor doing insane amounts of dps to force their way into meta. Same with arcane mage, its fake dmg if there isnt packs where there is a priority target that needs to die fast. Because it’s about meaningful dmg not just pading on any adds. Its ok to like a class but let’s not lie to ourselves
@@MarcelianOnline my friend plays ret and I play assa, in every dungeon he heavily outdamages me, no matter how much I sweat on optimizing my bleeds/combo points/energy etc, he just pressed 3 buttons and doing so much more than me, am I just dogshit at the game?
this guy was full of shit his whole placements are bs based on top clear which is not logical at all for example frost dk above el shaman is bs the el does 500k more dps at the same skil lvl there is no logical way to put frost dk above that secondly he has better utility then the frost dk overall making this complete bs same fro devestaion it's got good dps it just ain't as good as aug but is far better then warrior lock and so on in dps they often push 2m overall
@@Captain-qv8yu no ret is just really good at lower keys. Their rotation is very simple for one and they have cds like every 30s so for basically every pull since wings is a proc now
Survival as a C tier... Easy A. Sorry, but the MM footage is from a whole month ago. No MM hunter is making those number in DPS after 11.0.5 Sure you can do 10's as a MM. But you can also do 10's on almost every other class, the only difference is you can be 20 ilvl's lower on those classes.
Yea, I do not know the numbers. I only judge by what I have seen or what I hear. I feel like these numbers are skewed because a portion of the player base that did engage with M+ around the end of dragon flight have stopped engaging with it. Pick a reason, constant meta swings with constant class changes on the fly mixed with the large investment cost of getting a toon to the higher levels of keys. M+ is not as needed for gearing and getting into raids due to delves filling in the gaps. M+ community can be stupid toxic with its over dependency of these tier list and not being new or casual player friendly.
only in your shity groups proly,ret is after the nerf mid at BEST,it has a low skill cap therefore its easy to think its better than specs that have high skill cap,its why ret is very popular low keys,but missing completly in higher
Exactly, retri doin best to +8 in +10 its an average. He is easy cus every fakin player with retri ignor mechanics and avoidable damage.😂 in 10+ u cant and time u spend with defensives, heals and runing around dmg pools will catch you😂
Community! I turn to ypu for help. I only have time to focus 1 char atm. Idgaf bout tierlists because i do my part well in m+ anyway. But my choices here are, lock,hunter,druid. Thougts are solo delves and push m+ ina mediocre way. So.. help me decide here please🙏
Hi Flame :) Hi Team. been a while since I've joined the chat been busy rerolling my WarBand "shrug" stinking Blizzard bot.. I am the bot :p Just want to say thank you for the last couple videos Im bringing up a unholy dk and enhancement shaman and of course havoc dh :) was hoping to join you guys in some runs but too much to do now, maybe one day.... I did make another dh on EU, chat with you later. The Bot (o_o) haha
Survival looks way low. Looking at WarcraftLogs it's showing a lot higher for me. Second overall in raids in last day or last week (I know, patch came mid last week, but that should be against Survival's favor with 1 week filter). On Mythic, it's 8 or 9, depending.
Maybe you are just very good and would do even more on a different spec? But it's also about warriors having the worst utility of all classes and pretty weak survivability overall too
@KungKokkos their utility isn't as bad as people say they have alot of stops survivability is decent with victory rush and the damage is definitely above average. I wouldn't call it a A tier spec but def not D tier. I would put it mid B ive played a few different specs
@@dr3armer It's definitely worse than most, probably the worst. How many AoE stops does arms have? Shamans have 2, Evokers too, Mages have 2 as well, Paladins are paladins, Monks have 2, etc
With hunter and not to be dramatic but the video doesnt talk about it enough. The Hunter balance team is a struggle, they are making changes and nerfs claming one thing and it ends up either not working or being worse than before not targeting the root issues. There was a joke that Hunter is an experiment for AI balancing from blizzard. Id highly suggest unless you just love the class to probably avoid it for now its really not looking great in the Hunter camp right now if you want to be invited to groups it might be the worst class right now for that.
The problem with unholy is they need big pulls. Till you have all prepared most of time the most adds are dead so you drop in dmg. 😅 but with good pulls you can rock the meter. But frost is still easier. 😂
Retribution in B? ARE Y O U even serious? Something tells me streamers are gaslighting folks into thinking ret is B tier when its actually a very natural S tier. What kind of wow do you play? nothing to see here folks , keep moving
yeah its a joke. its been brought up in streams MULTIPLE times and they flat out ignore it that Ret is just god tier, like they don't want the spotlight shown on it so it escapes nerfs (which it 10000000000% deserves)
@@sproosemoose285it’s just a pug friendly spec. It falls off in higher keys because of its damage profile. It’s easy to learn and pilot, but specs like enhancement will blow it out of the water later on. Furthermore the tier list is formatted around highest key cleared. And why would you take a ret when you can take prot pally instead
Im glad Aug is S+ in PvE because they are trash in PvP. Every spec has a solid A or S ranking leave Aug alone idk why ppl whine so much that it helps people make their keys easier it annoys the hell outta me man lol.
You might want to choose to learn some other specs as there are 10specs on the same level or better then ret and in the top 4 specs we are talking about a bigger difference on damage then from the 5th highest dps spec and the lowest dps spec in the game.
I'm a DK tank, I always play late at night... so I do a lot of pugs... and I'll say this: retri is not "B" tier! the tool kit is the best in the game, they can help with ALL the annoying afixes, they have Brez and they just DON'T DIE! that alone would put them in the "A" tier...but the single dmg is solid and AOE is INSANE...they are definitely not behind monk WW and fury warrior...dude fury warriors are instant refuse!!!
I play survival, and most of the time I'm ahead of all other classes. I currently have 2600io with all +10 completed. This analysis is wrong! But at the same time I think it's good! Because if all the influencers say bad things, my class could get a buff!
Arcane have no chance to be S tier as whenever it get 1x buff, for some reason its not taking more than two weeks and it get 2x nerfs :( dunno why blizz really don't like this spec, had 5 mins after rework but ofc had to be nerfed to the ground, even better is with fire hah, OP -> crap -> OP -> crap and so on.... really cant find golden middle :P the best spec as always is frost, defo the most loved by blizz spec, good single and AOE damage, PVE and PVP...
It’s not just Blizzard-it’s the players too. There’s been a huge protest against the Arcane buff coming in 11.0.5, and Blizzard caved to the pressure, nerfing us again. No idea why... jealousy, maybe?
enhance shaman is good at top tier with special compo that give him boost with augment and PI but at lower key and pick up, something like paladin is way way way more strong.
Nah this tier list ain't it. Saying WW monk is better than ret pala, and that WW's are cranking 15's.. they are not. Its only dabnel who is legit the goat on WW monk and you can check the vod runs where he plays with an aug and an enhance shaman where on average at the end of every run the enhance shaman does anywhere from 800m-1.2billion damage more than WW monk.
Apparently, some people aren’t as intelligent. If 80% more people play Retribution just because it’s easier than Monk, then by simple logic, they’ll end up running higher keys as well.
@@MarcelianOnline i'm sorry mate but the fact you put frost above ele shaman says it call you don't have any idea how to work with the infomation you had, you don't look at what actually matters just focuse on one run and on that.
Feral is garbage. I don't care what "tier" they are in, it is time for you to actually start paying attention to the gear levels. Sorry, a feral druid pulling down 1.5 million, in single target, in 628 gear is mediocre at best. Most specs at that gear level, are doing a whole lot better by as much as 50-120k dps at the same gear level. Not to mention, in order to get that 1.5 million dps, you are sacrificing ALL utility of the class just to stay relevant. What you are seeing is ferals being carried by the rest of the group.
L take. Balance druid for example: one player doing really well compared to the others isn't indicative of the spec, it's indicative of the niche of players or the group comp. This kind of thinking leads to balance druids not likely forming groups and creates bias. Second, it's also variable and dependent on the overall comp. Watch, balance will be ranked less in a few weeks because smooth brains will take this as gospel
people complaining about his ret coments are simply clueless,ret is painfuly mid,the recent nerfs also made it feel worse to play,the people complaining are just baddies who see ret doing well in their shity groups because its easy to play,they compare it with specs that have insane high skill caps,its popular in low keys but dead in anything high,even its utility isnt worth bringing it,classes with buffs or debufs are a better choice
Similarly terrible to rank specs by the majority, since its unlikely they will be able to pilot them correctly. Just makes more sense to rank them based on players that could actually play those specs lol shocking i know WoW community has some of the most “feelings based” thinking out of any game or community out there i swear, and that swings both ways
@143tg The main downside of looking at the top 1% for mythic+ is you have to consider team comps. Even if a class is stronger *cough* ret paladin *cough* it won't see any play if it doesn't fit the team comp. Currently protection paladin is king so no chance ret paladins will get any love.
Bro puts Frost DK in S Tier and Ret Paladin in B Tier. Okay. Frost DK is literally only doing as well as it is because the people pushing with them are some of the best players in the world, and their groups do pulls specifically to synergize with the cooldown of Breath of Sindragosa. If you aren't in a hardcore M+ pushing group, you will not see those results. Also Ret Paladin in B Tier is OMEGALUL! They have some of the most consistent high-end AoE of all classes with 30 second cooldowns and they sacrifice almost no single target damage. You can even play a build that ONLY USES DIVINE STORM FOR EVERYTHING and it does BARELY LESS SINGLE TARGET than a DEDICATED SINGLE TARGET BUILD! Moral of the story: Don't listen to streamers.
The people who push those high keys can choose to play whatever they want Frost dk is better. "and they sacrifice almost no single target damage." This is just false unless you think losing 200 000dps is almost no single target damage.
yeah well sorry not sorry but your ranking system sucks im playing my surv hunter bringing a nice toolkit to my team bursting shot implosive trap binding shot traps can skip packs when its needed feign death and turtle can skip a lot of mechanics same thing for rets they are in a good spot right now with back up healing bop sac freedom bubble if you don't know how to do a tier list without looking all the aspect of each class don't do it you have clearly no clue surv hunter and ret pal are high A tier .
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People complain about M+ toxiicity and being exclusive yet every wow channel pumps out their teir list over and over. We're our own worst enemy lol
Nah it’s just the delusional average players. Especially in this expac since M+ is now harder so it’s pushing more casual players into harder content. So that’s creating a rift between the players even more. The ones who struggle to time 10s and the ones who are more middle of pack 12~
Tier lists are subjective opinions. You can choose to ignore them lol
Have you lost your mind? Retribution Paladin in B tier behind WW Monk? Ridiculous!
batshit crazy ..i main fdk with ww and retri main alts. its not even funny how useless ww is compared to ww in high keys
Yeah that was a weird ranking. Plus ret has great utility and is tanky as hell
Ret pally is S tier… they do insane freaking damage and their utility is crazy
@@bugjuice32086 At least in pugs. They have very friendly damage profile with their main cd being 30seconds
? Did you not watch the video he literally explains why the top specs are where they are... Bc they are clearing higher keys
put A into S tier, B into A tier, survival also into A tier easy...
I'm literally topping the meters as survival in +10s vs specs that out gear me. Why is it still so slept on?
@@jonwhite7328Personal Experience vs Overall Data. Most resources put Survival in the middle of overall rankings.
@@jonwhite7328 Their rankings are entirely based off of the highest key level ever completed by that spec. It's a terrible way to rank specs in a tier list.
@@jonwhite7328because alot of people who play hunter want to play range. Which is understandable. Survival in my favourite to play but I do wish it was range like the old days.
@@jonwhite7328 because people will always look only at the S tier unfortunately. SV is killing it right now, great spec, great damage, survivability, everything. but its not enhc, aug, frostdk or assa rogue
I dont care how shit devestation evoker is, im not switching of my most fun to play class.
stay average i guess
Survival is like what, the 6th highest DPS in m+ atm, how is that C tier? Not buying that one
This ranking is based on highest key the spec has cleared.
@dromihetes If it is, it's dead wrong. Arms and survival has done higher keys than all warlocks and same as assassination, and higher than monk, for example.
survival was always trash
@@ihanak8814 not true
@@ihanak8814 Say that to S4 Shadowlands Surv lmao
People who think ret is S, maybe ret is great in your +8 and +10 keys. But when you look at 14+ etc its not that great that's why its ranked B tier.
I love how Gingi is just "this dude" lol
Gingi is a moron.
Warlocks just got buffed 3 days ago. Did I miss something and they got nerfed again like you’re saying? I’m confused
Yea demo is pumping in mythic plus even on logs now. He must not be including the warlock buffs.
How do you put fury in front of Retri, and then show a clip of the best fury in the world with 70& of the overall dmg of the paladin? Also we dont have brez, no imune, no freedom and one of the worst single targets in the game...
Because prot pally exists instead lmao no real reason to run ret over any of the other two specs tbh in high keys
@@143tg Prot warrior exists too. What's your point?
@ yea and prot war is better than fury exactly you just proved my point lmao you literally played yourself
Unless fury is just doing that much more dps.
its insane people dont understand your m+ tierlist
you explain it everytime for years now :D
@@aytac9672What its based on is very lazy. Anyone can go look at what each spec's highest rating is, we tune in for some form of insight
@@tonyr6180 if you dont like it dont watch it
ret is not b tier and most definetely not behind ww or fury lol
it fo sho iz dawg u jus gitta keep up da judgmint flame feel me dawg
Ret is only "B" tier because prot paladins are the current kings of high keys. If you would make a pug tier list then ret would be S tier for sure.
If a Retribution Paladin doesn’t ignore avoidable damage (which 80% of people do), there aren’t many ahead of me, and I’ve been playing WW for a long time. Mobility is more important than raw damage in M+, I run 10+ keys, and my friend has been playing Retribution since Wrath of the Lich King.
@@Jo-er5zm I wouldnt trade ret horse for this clunky WW rolls LOL
yes it is b tier thats why ur stuck 2.7
Ret Pala and especially Assassination Rogue are S tier (Ret is at least high A tier), today in the international MDI EVERYONE had an Assassination Rogue and they topped the meters in almost every round.
outlaw does 400 000more dps then ret and 200 000 more then assa.
MDI is Not high keys.
People are doing 9 10 11key level with 636ilvl gear my dude.
MDI is SPEED Running.
@@havtor007 Fair enough, still Gingi and Echo who are pushing 15-16 keys and 3.2k + rating have always played Assassin with Kush playing in all rounds. It seems like Assassin is the to go spec for M+ mate wherever I look. That being MDI and high keys with Echo and Gingi.
These charts are fucking clapped holy shit haha I dont think he plays the game
Just played my demon warlock and pushed over 2 mil at gear lvl 603, I’m satisfied for now 😎👌🏻
2 mil overall?
No chance
No, max dps I could do. With lowest of around 750 but most of the time over 1.2 mil if the mobs live long enough. I was surprised
@@doublem7709I wish 😎👌🏻
based, people struggle doing this in +15s with specs that mathematically do more than Demo, you may have stumbled onto a sleeper build on a sleeper spec on a sleeper class
I’m really curious about how you create this tier list, especially since the game is always changing. I’d like to understand the process so I don’t have to rely on you guys as much.
Well, in every tier list I walk you through how we process and parse the data, the rest is getting the data from all sorts of sources, like warcraftlogs, raider.io, archon.gg etc
It's entirely based on highest keys ever completed unfortunately.
@@tonyr6180 Wouldn’t it be logical to assume that if a class performs well at the highest keys, it would also perform well at lower keys? For instance, I’m a Hunter with a 1888 rating, and my goal is to reach 2500. Since Survival is performing better at higher keys, does it make sense for me to consider switching?
@@_TheUnMovedMover Not necessarily. The size of the pulls varies quite a bit based upon the key level. Like Necrotic Wake on a +9 or higher expect to do the lust mega pull off the rip. And certain classes have different numbers of targets their AOE hits, some classes are better at doing damage to packs that live longer, etc. Like FDK isn't even that amazing until +10s and higher. Survival is just fine to get to 2500 and you have lust which can get you into groups for that reason alone sometimes.
@@tonyr6180 So, based on what you're telling me, for example, with this tier list, like how Frost is ranked at S-tier, you're saying it wouldn’t perform better than other classes in Mythic+ levels 0-10? It would only start being an S-tier spec once it hits level 10? Does that mean this list is only relevant for the highest keys? Most players, like me, aren’t even aiming that high-for instance, my only goal is to reach 2.5k before switching to another class. I am really curious because I am just trying to understand the game and to get better at it.
Can’t wait for the raid tier list!
GREAT video bro, thank you. One request tho, I noticed you mentioned wowlogs as a source. Can you cite all your sources please. for example the graph you show @1330 would be really good just for folks like me who like to cross reference sources. keep up the good work man!
its wild that pure dps specs like warlock and hunter didnt get al least 1 A tier spec, like mage and rogue
Warlocks have been buffed, not nerfed. Why saying that?
So im playing mm and im pretty sure im using the blunt side of the arrows cause dps is so so. Think i was doing better before last changes..
What destro nerfs?? You mean the 9% st and 11% aoe buffs?
Love your videos guys but this has to be the worst tier list you've ever made.
Survival since last patch is in the top 4 of damage done in a key overall are C Tier, while Havoc which is the top 3 worst is B Tier? WW In the same tier as Ret and Unholy? Demo in the same tier as fire or MM?
I was gonna play frost, but I decided to pick unholy. I'm pretty happy with thar decision. It seems like Unholy sort of has a massive skill ceiling rotation-wise. Im playing it with really low haste and its crazy how much a single suboptimal gcd can impact your dps, this is true for other specs too, but very big for Unholy.
Particularly with the passive festering wound applications from Death and Decay, and your minion. It changes whether or not you need to manually apply festering strike on your next cooldown. This is such a big deal in aoe (bc of festermight) that if the probability of a passive wound being applied reaches a certain threshold, you can just wait for a small moment of time until it gets passively applied, then scourge strike it.
Funnily there has been an arm in awc few hours ago, it just show that in the end, it's all about whenre, when and why
I would be tempted to put SV Hunter into the B tier. I've been playing my alt in mid level keys (6-9) and topping the damage in M+ more often than not against other more meta DPS classes in equivalent gear. I've managed to beat Arcane Mages, Ret Palas, Balance druids, UH DKs, and even a couple of Enhancement Shammys. The other classes you have listed in C tier tend to be left in the dust.
I think the reason that SV Hunter isn't played as much in M+ yet is because it lacks utility compared to other similar options, and it simply can't compete with the DPS of the S tier melee specs that seem to be in every high key. I can understand why people wouldn't want to drop a Frost DK or an Enh Shaman for a SV Hunter.
atm the ranged classes are shitty?? or not playable? or the dng-s and raid are melee friendly?
WW over Ret is cap .. i have both in high gear 630 and ret is the better spec ... u way more tanky u have way more helping tools .. u have cd every pack and u can also attack in range witch is a huge thing in my opinion... WW has a bit better ST dmg and a legsweap but u suck in big AOE and u die to random hits fairly easy when ret just stands his ground... mystic touch is ok but deffaura also better + br on pala ... i love monk and its my main but currently its just not worth playing in my opinion
@@KeViNaNoViC completely agree, I've mained monk since BFA and currently it is terrible. We are completely garbage in mass aoe pulls and the only example he gave of a high ww monk is dabnel who even admits he is currently just being carried by an over-tuned enhance shaman. Our M+ utility toolkit is ofc amazing, but our inability to dish out AOE damage makes the spec, as you say, not worth playing.
@Gibbo_cs good that brewmaster is good atleast... Oh wait he isnt 😂 and MW also on the lower end of things idk balancing is wild these days
Maybe Frost is better in higher keys, but in lower keys there's times where Ret is just CLAPPNIG and I'm trying my best not to drown.
Tier lists should not exist, honestly.
People trying to push m+ to the limits will aways use whatever brings that 5-7% more dps of an "S tier spec", because they want to push to the LIMITS. That's just making 2000 IO players thinks everything else SUCKS. Wich is NOT the case to complete any key below 12.
I'm tired of seing "META COMPS" breaking keys over and over... still, no-meta class doesnt even has a chance to join a group.
This is wrong.
But This is not wrong at all. you just described exactly what does tier list is. this tier list is trying to say what is giving the extra 5 to 7%. it’s not seeing any other these classes are bad but if you had to rank them. You are right players with low ratings don’t understand the dungeons yet alone classes and most players would probably not understand what this list is saying. but that’s not a tier list issue that’s the wow community
@@143tg It's not wrong because of the tierlist itself. It's wrong because of the huge negative impact in the game community.
Anyone that actually plays the game understands to take tier lists with a grain of salt. There’s way too many factors.
Which dungeon are you doing? How big are you pulling? If you aren’t doing MDI pulls, Unholy is mediocre, 5-targets Ret is king.
Ret is ranked too low. One of the highest damage melee specs combined with a ton of utility and great defenses with emergency self heals when needed. It's almost neck and neck with Frost DK in most areas and has a more overall consistent damage profile from pack to pack. At least this is how I feel after having pushed both specs to around the 2800 range. FDK obviously has that ability to completely erase a pack with all CDs popped, but that's not even crucial to have in M+ until you're getting to that +14 and higher keystone level. I think overall ranking these classes by the highest key levels they have ever completed leads to a very inaccurate perception of how good classes are. Sure you can use it to help guide your tier list, but using it as the basis for your whole tier list is very out of touch. Like fury for example is nowhere near as good as Ret, Windwalker, even unholy at the moment from a straight up logical perspective looking at their toolkits, but their are some very good players that always main the spec such as Critcake so those keys could be higher from that alone, but that does not at all mean that spec is a better spec. I think you guys need to look at damage overall and at different keystone levels, how many defensives they have, how useful their utility is for the specific dungeons in the rotation this season, and how the spec feels to play for 95% of the player-base in Mythic+. Saying hey X spec is A-tier because some 8/8 Mythic raider completed some +15 keys with it is very misleading and most people that watch this channel I would guess can't relate to and do not care about how the +14 and higher bracket is doing.
ret is better stfu, if the dk does not have a aug in the group ret does more than FDK
@@coctailandy5864 not true
that's BS, try to play +13 and above keys
@@markuslc1888 there is no reason for, you get to choose 1 out of 3 623 item vaults. what is the reason "IO" thats boring af. all you need to do is 8's
@coctailandy5864 first of all, wtf needs 8s?.you need 10s to get myth track in the vault and the difference between hc and myth track is huge. and 2nd tier lists are about high end, if u don't care about the 1% best, then tierlists are completely ignoreable for you...nb cares about 8-10weekly no leaver keys. the high end shows the potential of a spec and the balancing, everything else doesn't matter!
Unholy isn’t really ahead of Ret unless you’re doing crazy MDI pulls.
Don’t think this tier list reflects well on the current buffs just looks at overall performance of s1. Obviously a cracked out survival hunter isn’t going to participate in 16s because 1. They just got buffed and are catching up and 2.most groups who run 16s are in their designed groups thats been working. Which is why despite buffs or nerfs you’ll see frost dk enhancement sham and aug evo in s tier for the remainder of the season.
Should be called a "Community Perception Tier List"...
Stopped M+ for a week…feeling much better now😊
I’ve been out dpsing pretty much everyone as demonology in the 2700 io range including the meta specs. I’m not playing felguard even though they buffed it just because 3 big minions plus 10+ imps is hard to pull off in m+ with movement. It simmed only 9k higher than the premier build for me so I’m pretty sure it’s a dps loss when not played the way the sim calculates it
Ret Pala is insane
A tier list based on performance in keys that a few groups in the world are doing? Lol…
21:40 Ele gets nerfed because Blizzard's pastime is ignoring Ele until it starts doing well, then slapping it back into the stone age. They reworked classes in Dragonflight three times without addressing Ele issues once. Rolling into TWW, they finally get around to addressing some problems. But they don't understand the spec as well as they thought. It starts performing better than they like, and then the nerf bat comes out of hiding. They don't make moderate adjustments in either direction. It seems like they're incapable of doing so with Ele because they pay so little attention to it. Soon as they get it back to the lower half of statistical performance, they'll go back to ignoring it for a few more expansions.
Crying from an A tier is cringe af dude.
@@phantasm5347 It's definitely not A tier anymore.
Lmfao
No ele shamans actually pump they are definitely A
@@tonyr6180 You're literally the 5th most pushing spec out of 26 lmfao.... If you're not pumping, something's definitely wrong with you. Logs don't lie.
Outlaw rogue is slept on. I'm doing excellent single target and AOE.
WW mains continue to cry and get declined
Nice ranking (honestly just clicked to Fury, Enha/Ele and Destro) yet still I remain Destro. You know why? Because it is STILL THE E-FING SAME since like Legion, all the procs, relations between spells etc. still the same. Diabolist added some flavour but still, all the other specs always change and try something new, but Destro is like sharks, perfect for eons.
Simple spec to graps, complex if you want to squeze every number out of it, but still THE SAME, so I just learned it after those years so much, I dont even use any recomended build, just clicked like: Yeah I like these effects of flying green shit here and there, Oh I like that this affects that, I am gonna use it. I build exactly the same lock as in Legion (except having my infernal as perma pet, still crying...)
If you like odschool casters, play destro.
it still scratches that itch for sure, glad you enjoy it man!
I love destro its still so satisfying to land a Chaosbolt and diabolist ist a very good Addition to that good old rotation
@@vallesharp7825 Exactly right, You still doing your good old stuff and Diabolist is just GREAT bonus to everything you do.
Him saying he doesnt know who "this dude playing the boomy is"
What a gay fan boy are you, who cares
it wasn’t Gingi who I was referring to, but the rank 1 boomy at the time, name starts with a Y, can’t remember. I met Gingi, how the fuck would i not know who he is lol :))
Gingi is also a machine, but I don’t think he logs
Yeah sometimes frost dk in pugs with bad players defeinitly feels like shit with low dmg, but if you get a more cordinated group, where the tank pulls bigger frost dk is definitly very good. Sadly the first scenario happens way more often.
There is no shakeup, it is always BM Hunter ftw :)
I mean the fact that you say “you’re probably not going to want to bring a shadow priest into your group unless you can’t find a disc” and continue to say the damage is pretty good is a huge problem with M+. This is just one of the examples.
I do not agree with the ret pally placement, id take one over many of those other classes. The difference between a good ret pally and a great ret pally is their uptime on Shake the Heavens buff. Ret also has great utility as well, off heals in a pinch, AoE interrupt with blinding light and also their blessings and invulnerable.
All true points, still have nothing to do with where Ret is. Like it as much as you like, there's a reason it is where it is and ignoring the reason to state your own opinion doesn't make for a interesting discussion :)
Yea but the problem is also just have your ret paladin play proc and problem solved infinitely better team composition. They arent offering anything special or better than other top dps specs while not doing as much dps as them. They arent bad its just the ret paladin isnt enabling anything special in the composition nor doing insane amounts of dps to force their way into meta. Same with arcane mage, its fake dmg if there isnt packs where there is a priority target that needs to die fast. Because it’s about meaningful dmg not just pading on any adds.
Its ok to like a class but let’s not lie to ourselves
@@MarcelianOnline my friend plays ret and I play assa, in every dungeon he heavily outdamages me, no matter how much I sweat on optimizing my bleeds/combo points/energy etc, he just pressed 3 buttons and doing so much more than me, am I just dogshit at the game?
this guy was full of shit his whole placements are bs based on top clear which is not logical at all for example frost dk above el shaman is bs the el does 500k more dps at the same skil lvl there is no logical way to put frost dk above that secondly he has better utility then the frost dk overall making this complete bs same fro devestaion it's got good dps it just ain't as good as aug but is far better then warrior lock and so on in dps they often push 2m overall
@@Captain-qv8yu no ret is just really good at lower keys. Their rotation is very simple for one and they have cds like every 30s so for basically every pull since wings is a proc now
nice! so glad i went arms warrior this season. thanks blizzard!
Survival as a C tier... Easy A.
Sorry, but the MM footage is from a whole month ago. No MM hunter is making those number in DPS after 11.0.5
Sure you can do 10's as a MM. But you can also do 10's on almost every other class, the only difference is you can be 20 ilvl's lower on those classes.
The sad thing is that blizzard Devs will see this and continue to delete FDK from the game
imagine ranking class based on +17 keys participation
Yea, I do not know the numbers. I only judge by what I have seen or what I hear. I feel like these numbers are skewed because a portion of the player base that did engage with M+ around the end of dragon flight have stopped engaging with it. Pick a reason, constant meta swings with constant class changes on the fly mixed with the large investment cost of getting a toon to the higher levels of keys. M+ is not as needed for gearing and getting into raids due to delves filling in the gaps. M+ community can be stupid toxic with its over dependency of these tier list and not being new or casual player friendly.
Ret pally is S tier… they do insane freaking damage dude it’s unreal
only in your shity groups proly,ret is after the nerf mid at BEST,it has a low skill cap therefore its easy to think its better than specs that have high skill cap,its why ret is very popular low keys,but missing completly in higher
@@deenman23 You're retarded. Ret is the second highest DPS after enhancement in higher keys.
Exactly, retri doin best to +8 in +10 its an average. He is easy cus every fakin player with retri ignor mechanics and avoidable damage.😂 in 10+ u cant and time u spend with defensives, heals and runing around dmg pools will catch you😂
Awesome!!
bet your butt it is!
Community! I turn to ypu for help. I only have time to focus 1 char atm. Idgaf bout tierlists because i do my part well in m+ anyway. But my choices here are, lock,hunter,druid. Thougts are solo delves and push m+ ina mediocre way. So.. help me decide here please🙏
Can’t take any of this seriously with Ret that low.
Watching your channel is like diving into a world of great ideas and creative solutions. Keep inspiring us with your brilliant videos!🖐😁🎩
Destru has been nerfed? what are you talking about. Destru got big buffs...
Hi Flame :) Hi Team. been a while since I've joined the chat been busy rerolling my WarBand "shrug" stinking Blizzard bot.. I am the bot :p Just want to say thank you for the last couple videos Im bringing up a unholy dk and enhancement shaman and of course havoc dh :) was hoping to join you guys in some runs but too much to do now, maybe one day.... I did make another dh on EU, chat with you later. The Bot (o_o) haha
Where are this animations from?
Thank you :)
ive actually had pretty decent results with BM hunter
Survival looks way low. Looking at WarcraftLogs it's showing a lot higher for me. Second overall in raids in last day or last week (I know, patch came mid last week, but that should be against Survival's favor with 1 week filter). On Mythic, it's 8 or 9, depending.
I love the way Arms warrior plays 😢At least its doing good in raids.
I've been pushing 1.8m overall dps with the cleave colossus arms build. It's definitely viable if not underrated.
Meanwhile Almost Fine is playing Arms Warri in a MDI Game 🤣
Something in me still wants to try out Arms. I get a rush from outplaying others with underdog specs
Arms war gotta be the most underrated spec atm im slapping in 10s as a 605 arms keeping up in damage cant wait to gear up
Maybe you are just very good and would do even more on a different spec? But it's also about warriors having the worst utility of all classes and pretty weak survivability overall too
@KungKokkos their utility isn't as bad as people say they have alot of stops survivability is decent with victory rush and the damage is definitely above average. I wouldn't call it a A tier spec but def not D tier. I would put it mid B ive played a few different specs
I’m guessing you ain’t pugging cuz no one’s going to invite a 605 arms war 😂
@@Ohwowamazing so.. push your own key.
@@dr3armer It's definitely worse than most, probably the worst. How many AoE stops does arms have? Shamans have 2, Evokers too, Mages have 2 as well, Paladins are paladins, Monks have 2, etc
This has to be the worst tier list there is out there
These are just the facts, if you think it’s a bad tier list then you just fail to comprehend what this tier list really is talking about.
With hunter and not to be dramatic but the video doesnt talk about it enough. The Hunter balance team is a struggle, they are making changes and nerfs claming one thing and it ends up either not working or being worse than before not targeting the root issues.
There was a joke that Hunter is an experiment for AI balancing from blizzard.
Id highly suggest unless you just love the class to probably avoid it for now its really not looking great in the Hunter camp right now if you want to be invited to groups it might be the worst class right now for that.
The problem with unholy is they need big pulls. Till you have all prepared most of time the most adds are dead so you drop in dmg. 😅 but with good pulls you can rock the meter. But frost is still easier. 😂
I feel like this video was produces like 3 weeks ago. Y'all really messed up with this one xd
Retribution in B?
ARE Y O U even serious? Something tells me streamers are gaslighting folks into thinking ret is B tier when its actually a very natural S tier.
What kind of wow do you play? nothing to see here folks , keep moving
yeah its a joke. its been brought up in streams MULTIPLE times and they flat out ignore it that Ret is just god tier, like they don't want the spotlight shown on it so it escapes nerfs (which it 10000000000% deserves)
@@sproosemoose285 ah , the ret hater has arrived
@@dromihetes but enough about most of the playerbase
@@sproosemoose285it’s just a pug friendly spec. It falls off in higher keys because of its damage profile. It’s easy to learn and pilot, but specs like enhancement will blow it out of the water later on.
Furthermore the tier list is formatted around highest key cleared. And why would you take a ret when you can take prot pally instead
Something tells me you have no idea how you can look at statistics.
Statistically you are factually WRONG
Im glad Aug is S+ in PvE because they are trash in PvP. Every spec has a solid A or S ranking leave Aug alone idk why ppl whine so much that it helps people make their keys easier it annoys the hell outta me man lol.
Nice video.
I hope buff Ret Paladin single target dmg!🙏
And buff in pvp.
REt turbo S broken shit i have all dps at 600 or higher, the baseline kit is beyond op.
You might want to choose to learn some other specs as there are 10specs on the same level or better then ret and in the top 4 specs we are talking about a bigger difference on damage then from the 5th highest dps spec and the lowest dps spec in the game.
I'm a DK tank, I always play late at night... so I do a lot of pugs... and I'll say this: retri is not "B" tier! the tool kit is the best in the game, they can help with ALL the annoying afixes, they have Brez and they just DON'T DIE! that alone would put them in the "A" tier...but the single dmg is solid and AOE is INSANE...they are definitely not behind monk WW and fury warrior...dude fury warriors are instant refuse!!!
What key level are you doing? because this is high end keys not your 9s or 10s
one day their gonna nerf shaman and then I will be very very sad...
i want these drugs devs give me someone of yor amazingfstuff
ignore the last 20 years must be a hell of aride
Who is that boomkin dude? Feels like i've seen him before. XD
I play survival, and most of the time I'm ahead of all other classes. I currently have 2600io with all +10 completed.
This analysis is wrong!
But at the same time I think it's good! Because if all the influencers say bad things, my class could get a buff!
Arcane have no chance to be S tier as whenever it get 1x buff, for some reason its not taking more than two weeks and it get 2x nerfs :( dunno why blizz really don't like this spec, had 5 mins after rework but ofc had to be nerfed to the ground, even better is with fire hah, OP -> crap -> OP -> crap and so on.... really cant find golden middle :P the best spec as always is frost, defo the most loved by blizz spec, good single and AOE damage, PVE and PVP...
It’s not just Blizzard-it’s the players too. There’s been a huge protest against the Arcane buff coming in 11.0.5, and Blizzard caved to the pressure, nerfing us again. No idea why... jealousy, maybe?
enhance shaman is good at top tier with special compo that give him boost with augment and PI but at lower key and pick up, something like paladin is way way way more strong.
I play ww buddy plays ret were both very close in dmg at the end of every run.
Best buds forever?
@MarcelianOnline yup
Post video or logs
613 Boomy still looking for mythic plus group to play with
Nah this tier list ain't it. Saying WW monk is better than ret pala, and that WW's are cranking 15's.. they are not. Its only dabnel who is legit the goat on WW monk and you can check the vod runs where he plays with an aug and an enhance shaman where on average at the end of every run the enhance shaman does anywhere from 800m-1.2billion damage more than WW monk.
yes. welcome to the planet earth we're youtubers are full of shit
Apparently, some people aren’t as intelligent. If 80% more people play Retribution just because it’s easier than Monk, then by simple logic, they’ll end up running higher keys as well.
Who cares mates , play what you like me im main spec arms and i have alt sub, playing those specs for many years and everything was fine 😊
D tier arms warrior, well I blast oall on 11s lvl more than 1m50, more than 100 interrupt / cc per run, I mean wth you're smoking
Frost is better but the play style is so lame I’ll stick to arcane because it’s so fun 🤩
I would put Unholy in A tier! But the rest i agree
Would like it as well, it's just not there yet
@@MarcelianOnline i'm sorry mate but the fact you put frost above ele shaman says it call you don't have any idea how to work with the infomation you had, you don't look at what actually matters just focuse on one run and on that.
Feral is garbage. I don't care what "tier" they are in, it is time for you to actually start paying attention to the gear levels. Sorry, a feral druid pulling down 1.5 million, in single target, in 628 gear is mediocre at best. Most specs at that gear level, are doing a whole lot better by as much as 50-120k dps at the same gear level. Not to mention, in order to get that 1.5 million dps, you are sacrificing ALL utility of the class just to stay relevant. What you are seeing is ferals being carried by the rest of the group.
like this channel but damn this video was a flop 🤣
UHDK is definately pretty mid, not amazing but not lagging behind.
Not sure if Unholy is Mid, I think of warlock, monk as mid classes more but we will see!
Ubholy is what, 6th or 7th highest DPS, upper mid perhaps.
L take. Balance druid for example: one player doing really well compared to the others isn't indicative of the spec, it's indicative of the niche of players or the group comp. This kind of thinking leads to balance druids not likely forming groups and creates bias. Second, it's also variable and dependent on the overall comp. Watch, balance will be ranked less in a few weeks because smooth brains will take this as gospel
people complaining about his ret coments are simply clueless,ret is painfuly mid,the recent nerfs also made it feel worse to play,the people complaining are just baddies who see ret doing well in their shity groups because its easy to play,they compare it with specs that have insane high skill caps,its popular in low keys but dead in anything high,even its utility isnt worth bringing it,classes with buffs or debufs are a better choice
Psst. Guys… I’m starting to think these tier list are bullshit lol
terrible to rank specs by only looking at the 1% of the population
Similarly terrible to rank specs by the majority, since its unlikely they will be able to pilot them correctly. Just makes more sense to rank them based on players that could actually play those specs lol shocking i know
WoW community has some of the most “feelings based” thinking out of any game or community out there i swear, and that swings both ways
@143tg i agree my friend
@143tg The main downside of looking at the top 1% for mythic+ is you have to consider team comps. Even if a class is stronger *cough* ret paladin *cough* it won't see any play if it doesn't fit the team comp. Currently protection paladin is king so no chance ret paladins will get any love.
Shadow priest once again… mediocre..😭
I bet 2M you play Shaman!
Bro puts Frost DK in S Tier and Ret Paladin in B Tier. Okay. Frost DK is literally only doing as well as it is because the people pushing with them are some of the best players in the world, and their groups do pulls specifically to synergize with the cooldown of Breath of Sindragosa. If you aren't in a hardcore M+ pushing group, you will not see those results. Also Ret Paladin in B Tier is OMEGALUL! They have some of the most consistent high-end AoE of all classes with 30 second cooldowns and they sacrifice almost no single target damage. You can even play a build that ONLY USES DIVINE STORM FOR EVERYTHING and it does BARELY LESS SINGLE TARGET than a DEDICATED SINGLE TARGET BUILD!
Moral of the story: Don't listen to streamers.
The people who push those high keys can choose to play whatever they want Frost dk is better.
"and they sacrifice almost no single target damage."
This is just false unless you think losing 200 000dps is almost no single target damage.
yeah well sorry not sorry but your ranking system sucks im playing my surv hunter bringing a nice toolkit to my team bursting shot implosive trap binding shot traps can skip packs when its needed feign death and turtle can skip a lot of mechanics same thing for rets they are in a good spot right now with back up healing bop sac freedom bubble if you don't know how to do a tier list without looking all the aspect of each class don't do it you have clearly no clue surv hunter and ret pal are high A tier .