This reminds me of this idea where if a 4th dimensional creature passed through our Universe we would only be able to a see a single section of the creature at a time, which to us would look like a totally insane mishmash of 3 dimensional changing forms, obeying physical laws that wouldn't fit into our brains.
I think of the Gods and these creatures as a reflection in a shattered mirror. The mirror being the dimensions. Their reflection through the relms come as avatars and their influence
I'm coming from the opposite direction. Grew up with D&D, & started using Citadel miniatures in the 80's. Before long, I was incorporating Warhammer elements into my world: Kalbe Daark, Khorne, skaven, zoats, & more...
Photoshop? Pffft, such luxury! I use MSPaint my friend. Anyway, Tyranids are just a rip off of HR Giger's art and Ridley Scott's IP anyway, I regret nothing :)
Ironically, I originally started this youtube channel to talk about crafting D&D terrain and figures, hence the name, the Mighty Gluestick. I still do a lot of crafting, sculpting and such, I just haven't done any videos on it for ages. I miss those days. (lights candle)
I thought of a way to destroy the Shard of Pure Evil - use an equally powerful "good" artifact. Imagine a sphere containing the souls of a universe's worth of good-aligned creatures from countless worlds jammed into a single space, and using the positive energy within to destroy the Shard. Of course, said souls would have to be _willing_ to make the ultimate sacrifice of having their soul forever destroyed. I believe that would be enough to counter the Shard. Of course, it would take a massive celestial raid into The Abyss unlike any ever taken just to catch up with the burrowing evil artifact, and possibly reassembling the Rod of Seven Parts. Just a thought.
@@somestormchaseridjitwithwi2024 It would essentially be the antithesis of the Shard of Pure Evil...I'd call it the Sphere of Absolute Purity or something. I'd wager the plan would be to get close enough to the Shard that the massive amount of good and lawful energy inside the Sphere would (hopefully) be enough to cancel out the chaos and evil in the Shard when detonated.
Doing such a thing would inherently be evil so not sure it would be a net gain to use that Sphere. Wouldn't you just inspire the creation of a different kind of evil?
Talking about multidimensional aspect of gods and ancient beings makes me think of 3D chess if we could only see one 2D board focusing on the material plane; the gods invested deeply in the material plane for power so their machinations seem more sane and apparent but then the mysterious alien plots of otherworldly and abhorrent beings wouldn’t make sense to us as much as their aims are invested in other less intuitive aspects of reality. Makes sense
I agree you can't really "stat" a god. any stat blocks provided in supplements I arbitrate as being for their "avatar," a tiny projected shard if themselves. stating like a monster kinda detracts from their mythological value, and can serve to mute the whole fantasy theme. 2dn ed Forgotten realms had a nice concept and frameworks in "faith and Avatars"
I think stating them would be fine just don't worry about it being balanced, they are gods after all. Plus I think giving gods stats is a great way to provide a post campaign challenge to lv 20 characters who have no real challenge with the current stat blocks
I'd stat them, but in addition to just making their raw stats really OP I'd give them insurmountable hacks. Like 1 shot instakills against mortals with no saving throws and turning invulnerable at will. The fact that gods have separate ranks shows that by definition their power isn't truly infinite and shouldn't be portrayed as such, plus the lore of certain monsters being able to kill them. I'd argue only Greater deities are truly " All powerful and absolutely impossible for mortals to fight" whereas lesser and intermediate deites should just be really, really. Laughably brokely you're going to need shitloads of luck and outside help unfairly hard. Also for balance and my own OCD if the evil demon lords/ Archdevils can be defeated then their good aligned counterparts should be as well even if it's freakishly hard. Good should not be infinitely stronger then Evil, if Evil is gonna continue existing in campaigns and being a credible threat
Tbh I don’t even give my homebrew gods’ avatars statblocks. They are just plain unkillable without specific weapons which are paradoxically made using pieces of dead gods, and can kill you in a single blow.
I absolutely love your lore coverage. You manage to satisfy and then have me wanting more. And the fact that there's a tease to the universe before, causes me to wonder what in the 9 Hells that place was like? I eagerly await any newer episodes you manage to make.
Actually, Lovecraft was present in the first edition Deities & Demigods, which included Cthulhu et al. AFAICT the obyriths first appeared in third edition. (Heck, mind flayers first appeared in The Strategic Review #1 way back in 1975, and they're Lovecraftian as all get-out.)
I'm in the middle of converting D&D (various editions) over to gurps, and your videos give me a greater insight into the motivations and personalities of some very easy to overlook creatures. Thanks lots!
Most welcome, oddly enough, I have never played the GURPS system, it has been around for a very long time though, possibly the first true universal rule system?
If you include the previous Steve Jackson works, yes. It's a great deal of fun, but requires A LOT of prior prep. I usually steal from other game systems (not very hard to do), but 5 editions worth to look through...
Hate to disagree with the master, but I’m pretty sure the Obyrith would view them as a potential threat given their similarities in origin and intent. The Obyrith were the last beings from a reality that ended as this reality began and jumped ship into it. The Far Realmers(not a canon term, just what I call them sometimes) come from realties that border this reality and are powerful enough to push through the boundaries of both to go between the two. Both want control of this reality to recreate their own as they see fit. I find them being at war to be the most likely outcome, especially when you take into account that the Far Realm was created as a validation for incorporating Lovecraftian beings like Cthulhu into D&D. I really can’t see the Obyrith and the Great Old Ones getting along all too well unless there was a major threat to both that neither would be able to beat alone, like a group of extremely powerful gods actively attempting to destroy them both simultaneously. Other than that, they’re gunna be at each others necks.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog I do not see either of them as united enough to do something such as wage war. The demons only seem to be directed because they all wish to destroy the same thing. By nature each and every demons is only allied to itself and it is simply the overwhelming will of the demon lords that keep the gibbering multitude from scattering. For the far realm they would just see demons as yet another transdimensional being to either avoid or kill. Again, little to no coherency. Just the raw fight for survival.
No is my guess. They would be devoured either before, during, or after thr transfer. If they weren't driven to evil by the madness of how they made the leap.
@@jacobfreeman5444 Unless what we're seeing are both the 'good and evil' but that universe was so alien there's no way for us to recognize the difference.
@@idigamstudios7463 That is only valid in a realistic world where morality is relative. This is a world where the gods are the moral authority on good and evil. Their decrees are absolute. And by the standards of those gods all known demons are evil. Also demons are driven to destroy everything but especually things that not evil. Since any not evil kin would be the closest thing to them...well, lets just say even if they started out decent enough the sheer needs for survival would crush that out of them. I can't say you can't have someone redeem a demon...but it would be rather difficult as they should be so psychologically scarred as to make the job impossible.
I have been working on a homebrew with everything growing it organically starting with the deities, elementals snd spirits (shamistic) and then decideing how they would interact with the terrain and each other. Then haveing the major events like the obyriths arrivial and the eventual creation of the other races. This video is useful as reaserch.
Is there really NO way, not EVER, for a character to completely destroy a god? Is it ever possible for a player to become a god? I mean in the basic rule set, anyone can homebrew, of course...
During a game with a particularly inept DM, it was discovered that he'd allowed a player to have control of an entire banking system in Water Deep.....my wizard and another guys thief/assassin recruited a thieves guild (led by bank guy's wife's character) and we straight up pulled off an Oceans Eleven type heist. We got over 9 billion gold and other precious metals. It was all taken from an off site location, so in game, no one knew immediately that all the banks of Water Deep were now completely worthless. We paid off the help and with what remained of the booty our characters traded gp for xp at the exchange rate suggested in the DMG. We did some math and based on xp our characters leveled up to 12,224 Wizard and Assasin/Thief. The DM forced us to "retire as lesser power dieties" We both rolled up new characters and made our old characters our gods :D :D :D
Its possible if you try at it for long enough, but most importantly your character would have to become a multiplanar and probably have help from a god... Or more, but it's something that would take hundreds of 20's in a row
As always, that was an awesome video sir. For the next Abyss entry I'd vote for the Succubus or Charon's Marraenoloth, even though neither is limited to that plane alone and the Marraenoloth aren't native. For the various types of Goblin, I'd vote for Bugbears.
What if the obyrith are what a god looks like before becoming a god. They’re a piece of a proto-god, thrusting across the boundaries of space and time for the first time, so they lack the skill to control their appearance that older gods have. That would make the demons the angels of infant gods, gaining through horror and terror what the older gods get through worship. It’s an interesting thought. And better yet, it would explain why the gods are so keen to wipe them out.
Not sure why they didn't just make the oberiths from the far realm maybe the agents of the great old ones.....or just say that they are the great old ones
Sounds like how the Elder god from Soul Reaver would be an obyrith, his being is extended into other planes, spectral, material, past, present, and future
13:50 Think of the dimensions as a shattered mirror. Each piece being a dimension. The Gods are outside that mirror but their reflection (avatars) and influence are across dimensions, the shattered peices of the mirror.
Goblinoids! I'm curious about what variations of goblins you find appealing . There are a lot of cultures. I have a particular fondness for scavenger-use everything goblins (kind of like jawas from Star Wars), as their creations and setting are inspiring.
I get where you're coming from with regards to the gods, when saying they shouldn't have stats, or be killable. But the in Universe Lore really does show that they _are_ able to be killed by mortals. In fact, pretty much anything less than an Overgod (like AO), can be killed Characters of 20th level (at least in theory), and there are examples of every tier/rank of Deity being killed and replaced by either other gods, or by powerful Mortals. In fact, even Overgods like AO are shown to *_not_* be All-Powerful, or All-Knowing, despite beings orders of magnitude more powerful than even Greater gods, and actually serve the Luminous Being. So it is (at least in theory) even possible for Overgods to be killed (either by other Overgods, or perhaps by coalitions of greater gods, etc).
"Special interest groups" lol, I admire your discipline, sir. I will be publishing a memoir soon that includes many a not so kind utterance about said "groups" if I understand the recent Hasbeen Corp OGL on Wotc properties, it will include playable material relevant to them as well.
Oh yeah! Wasn't he wearing a "V For Vendetta" mask?😁 Seriously, I live in California, and the only other person here I know who knows who Guy Fawkes was is an immigrant from London.
While I can agree that sometimes the idea of "if it has stats, we can kill it" is annoying for my players to have, there are times where, like Graz'zt, Demogorgon, or other Demon Lords, I wish some of these Obyriths had 5e stats. Maybe they'd even have a Tiamat/Auril-like discorporation effect that saves them from true oblivion, even if the party does "kill" the representation of it they encounter, but it might be nice to see how current Obox-Ob stacks up to Demogorgon, or have rules for the Queen of Chaos, and Miska, to end a massive campaign involving the Rod of Seven Parts. They might rule a layer of the Abyss each, but the Demon Lords seem to still be in control, calling the Obyrith's power into question, and I wonder if they just reform in the Abyss, when they are felled, like a Devil, or Demon, or if they have some other mechanic? Would they be Fiends, or Aberations?
Another awesome lore video! Query @Aj, on some fundamental level could you consider Lovecraftian Old Ones to be similar to Obryth? Now I’m not saying they are exactly the same. But both come from the Far Realm and even possibly a completely different universe. I was even playing with ideas of having the “Old Ones” come from an alternate reality where at some point in the distant past they quarreled with the Obryth in their previous universe! 🤯
Very interesting indeed sir!🤔 I’m curious as to the thoughts that led to that @AJ. Also would do you think both would have interacted previously prior to making their way to D&D?
AJ do you think the Obyrith's metaverse went through the same cycle from order to complete chaos? Was it initiated by another version of them eons and eons ago like an endless loop?
@@AJPickett me too. DND has the richest history of any world I've researched. The fact that it asks these eternal questions in a fantasy setting is a testament to that. Thanks so much for all your work. I started knowing zero and feel like I have a pretty good grasp on it after only going through only 1/4 of it.
I feel like killing an aspect of a god would really suck for them, because while they reconstitute, their portfolio would be vulnerable too being subsumed by other entities. Also I feel by doing that, maybe the godkiller would absorb some of the energy release by a destroyed avatar, maybe in some way preventing immediate reprisal.
What do you suppose a Tiefling descended from Obyriths would look like? What would a tiefling descended from Pazuzu or Obox Ob or Pale Night look like?
Your profile pic... sorry, couldn't resist. Hmmm, some sort of crab-spider-octopus-lantern fish humanoid mutant parasite hybrid, barely held together by translucent, maggot-hide, slick with odorous mucus, gibbering and throbbing with vicious and unwholesome cravings?
@@AJPickett Eh kind of walked into that one. Anyway, I’ve been wondering: what is the difference between an Obyrith and an Aberration? For that matter, what do the mindflayers and Aboleths think of the Obyriths and the abyss. Surely they must deem it a threat?
Oh well I forgot that and had to read up in the folio again. Which led me to read up on another (non-goblinoid) that my group encounter this sunday the meenlocks. Thanks for a wonderful series and giving great tips on weird creatures. I actually almost had a TPK (ops) when my group fought some Gorbels thanks to you pointing them out.
Multiple dragon magazine articles, a collection of archived Wikipedia articles, plus a big stack of old D&D Books, such as the monster manuals, Elder Evils, Hordes of the Abyss, etc.
/rewatching this I had a sort of rules-lawyer thought about becoming a god. at 13:49 you said, paraphrasing, a god existing on multiple planes is kind of like us putting our finger tip through the surface of the ocean. to become a god you must be aware of yourself on multiple planes. so the idea is that i could open four portals and put a limb in each, be aware of myself on five dimensions and thereby become a god. well that might not work, it is kind of similar to how you described the obyrith working, except that the equivalent would probably be, if each of your hands and feet had their own mind which was connected to your 'main mind'. i don't think it accounts for some aspects of actually becoming a god but its kind of a funny thought. p.s. response to rhapsody564 1yr old, tserf skcuoal 6month old, and jacob freeman 4month old comments: I could be wrong, but I think AJ actually answered your question at 3:55 : Are there any lawful/good Obyrith? the queen of chaos killed any who refused to join her army, that would leave just the evil/chaotic sort.
What a horrific and disgustingly shocking terrifying putrid Munster.Can you play a campaign where no evil monsters try to kill you and you only fight people in a city setting.
Having looked at deities and demigods for 3.5, where they have the stats for a good amount of the Norse pantheon, hecate, and many others. You aren't killing a God. I don't care what kinda gear you have, you aren't killing a God.
My version of obyrth is where you say no I wont help you I like this girl give her to me or else I wont help you. Basically the ogre mage, like throwing a hot nail into the snow and expecting everybody else to pull it out
I'm hearing this, particularly around 11 minutes and existing in multiple realities and times and wondering how Mystra was mounted and killed by a human without her or another god noticing and stopping it from happening. I get her with most focus on the weave but not another. Youd think the gods would have a fair amount if focus on that empire with them playing with such high tiered spells. Also really makes me wonder just how big the damage was done and such magic/reality manipulation going on during the dawn war. What those stats and abilities would look like.
I like how whenever someone needs an image of demons it is always Warhammer, no this is not an elitist Warhammer is a better thing, just me noticing a pattern that I find interesting.
I need some help theory crafting on a cosmic scale. I dont know enough about the abyss to say anything like this (outside of Tharizdun) is supported in lore, but I cant find much on the subject. So Obyriths come from a different universe that has colapsed. It was then the obyriths gave Tharizdun a seed of pure evil which when planted, is what grew into the abyss (originally they wanted it planted in a celestial plane, but Tharizdun couldnt manage that). Do you know anything about that seed? I cant seem to find much. Here comes the theory craft portion; maybe the seed is from their original dimension and thats why the abyss is infinite because its actually 'growing'. Maybe the source of what collapsed their original dimension. By spreading it, provides a mean of escaping obliteration until it grows to large and totally consumes another universe, collapsing in on itself. Before this collapse, they reach into another universe to plant a seed in which they can live on until the process repeats itself. This uproots itself if there is any established lore on this seed of evil and I need to promptly go back through any of your videos dealing with the abyss. But what do you think?
After watching your video on the Abyss and Pale Night, Im happy with the theory so far. Pale night wants to remake her home and after an eon or so, has to start over. In my game, this will explain the lack of lvl 20 champions running around as most pulled aside by a diety or arch devil, grouped up or set aside in a sort of invasion force. They are then sent into the Abyss to try and slow the inevitable, maybe some groups even strive to take out Pale Night or find the 'root' of the Abyss. This is information that only the gods and devils know and share it only as they recruit proven champions
It is a dark red, crystal shard, like a broken rod, basically it acts as an artefact that tears open a portal between two different planes, Tharizdun decided not to use it in the Astral plane, opting to use it in the Elemental chaos instead. Here is the mind bending part.. being from outside of the universe means that, like Ao, the overgod, the shard exists outside of time and space, it has alternate physical laws that govern it, just as the Obrynth do, it is these aberrant laws that allow them to exist in such drastically alien forms, and it was when souls of mortal started to pour into the abyss that they crafted them into the first demons, imagine a scale of corrupting power, there is basic, natural entropy, then there is anti-life/negative energy, then there is demonic energy (which is corrupted elemental energy), then there is Far Realm energy (which is corrupted psychic power),The Obrynth universe could be from the end of time or before the universe of D&D began, the Abyss that Tharizdun created may be the cause of the fall of their own universe, their corruption of the universe that motivates Tharizdun to destroy it and remake it, may be his fault entirely, and it is something that has happened, must happen, will always happen, and there is nothing he can do to stop it, the awareness of which is what has driven him insane. He is the source of corruption he exists to correct.
There sure is a lot of detail to the 'lore' of hell or the abyss or whatever. Is there a divine/celestial/good aligned equivalent because it seems like the abyss is way more detailed and 'lived in' than other 'planes'.
Good question! Yes, there certainly is, all of the 'outer' planes are still at large in the D&D cosmology, there are a few differences, mainly with the positive and negative planes being good and evil aligned, and the elemental planes being merged together into the elemental chaos, which has regions instead of being different elemental dimensions (so, you could send a character on a massive journey around all the elemental regions without having to plane shift even once, in theory), the prime material planes (basically different prime material probabilities) are usually depicted at the centre of cosmology maps, but the truth is, all the different dimensions co-exist in the same location, in a manner of speaking. The divine outer realms are specific zones defined and contained by the powers that occupy or created them, they are artificial cosmic zones that border the transitive realm of conciousness and potential which is the astral sea. The astral sea and the ethereal realm are not different locations in space, they exist in parallel within the prime planes and the inner planes, and so forth.. the maps that are drawn, showing a great wheel or stacked layers, or a connecting tree, are all just representations for beings that evolved in a prime material world.. we don't comprehend things within things, within things particularly well. Anyway, yes, the celestial realms are all there, and no doubt I will be talking about them at some point.. people seem to enjoy these talks about D&D cosmology, history and such.
Ah ha, uh, I didn't really understand all that. Is there like some sort of graph or picture that explains 'where' these places are or how exactly they are connected or traversed? It seems really abstract and fantastical; difficult to comprehend.
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/World_Tree_cosmology for detailed info on the modern cosmology and a great picture of the inner planes is blogofholding.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/4eplanes.jpg and i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0378/55/1423151412676.png
I know they based a lot of this on Lovecraft, but what I think makes the outer gods and great old ones fun is that they barely recognize humanity as 'beings' at all, let alone sentient. Lovecraft and his circle of writers often say humanity are like insects to them, but it's more like humanity are bacteria or fungii, except that a few of them can communicate with us on some level, like nyarlathotep. It's like they went to bed one night, and their fridge has a bunch of mold inside on Saturday, after they slept in until 2pm. They hate us and want us gone, but it's not really personal, and, like us, they don't really discriminate between penicillin and the other gunk... they want to get rid of their worshippers just as much as everyone else.
What would a sword enchanted by a god have to have that would kill these things? Something that destroys their presence through time? What about alternate planes? Is that something a god could even bestow to a mortal?
Could you make a basic timeline of the universe of dnd? like Ao, then the obyrith, the aboleths, the gods, the dragons, giants, etc? Also, how is the far realm different than the universe the obyrith came from?
I could do that, now I think I have a better idea of the order of things. The Obrynth come from a completely separate multiverse, outside of Ao's territory, the Far Realm consists of all the alternate realities that are so different from the usual prime material planes, that they have different laws of physics, which can be very disruptive when they make an incursion into a more mundane reality.
This reminds me of this idea where if a 4th dimensional creature passed through our Universe we would only be able to a see a single section of the creature at a time, which to us would look like a totally insane mishmash of 3 dimensional changing forms, obeying physical laws that wouldn't fit into our brains.
Find the trilogy of the three bodies, science fiction with a lot of these ideas
remember that in mind demon from the Evil Dead TV series? only his mouth was in 3D space the rest of it was phased out of sync
I think of the Gods and these creatures as a reflection in a shattered mirror. The mirror being the dimensions. Their reflection through the relms come as avatars and their influence
Explain a hyper cube and we can continue from there
The Far Realm comes to mind. DAGON can actually link D&D and Chaosium Rpg. I see Cthulhu seeing DAGON as a rival.
After scouring through the Warhammer Fantasy and 40000 Universes I discovered the Dungeons and Dragons Universe.
Welcome! Settle back, grab a beverage and allow me to lay down the lore for you my friend :D
Warhammer fan here too. Khorne demons and tzeentch spotted there, but I've never seen these images. Again impressed by your image finding ability
Raymond Narvaez lol same
Lesj Conj Is there any chance that you've heard the absolute Grimdark fuckery known as the Daemonculaba?
I'm coming from the opposite direction. Grew up with D&D, & started using Citadel miniatures in the 80's. Before long, I was incorporating Warhammer elements into my world: Kalbe Daark, Khorne, skaven, zoats, & more...
"Obyrith"
*Shows a Tyranid Warrior with a photoshopped eye over its mouth*
Alrighty.
Photoshop? Pffft, such luxury! I use MSPaint my friend. Anyway, Tyranids are just a rip off of HR Giger's art and Ridley Scott's IP anyway, I regret nothing :)
That is a good way to trigger us 'Nid players :p
@@AJPickett that's some big dick energy
@@Pugiron thats true
😄
I went to Google Tyranid and got caught up in reading about other things in Warhammer 40K
👍👍👍
You made that figurine..? From scratch? Wow, good job!!
Ironically, I originally started this youtube channel to talk about crafting D&D terrain and figures, hence the name, the Mighty Gluestick. I still do a lot of crafting, sculpting and such, I just haven't done any videos on it for ages.
I miss those days.
(lights candle)
I thought of a way to destroy the Shard of Pure Evil - use an equally powerful "good" artifact.
Imagine a sphere containing the souls of a universe's worth of good-aligned creatures from countless worlds jammed into a single space, and using the positive energy within to destroy the Shard. Of course, said souls would have to be _willing_ to make the ultimate sacrifice of having their soul forever destroyed. I believe that would be enough to counter the Shard. Of course, it would take a massive celestial raid into The Abyss unlike any ever taken just to catch up with the burrowing evil artifact, and possibly reassembling the Rod of Seven Parts.
Just a thought.
Huh.... 🤔 an equally "good" artifact.... fascinating concept to contemplate.
@@somestormchaseridjitwithwi2024 It would essentially be the antithesis of the Shard of Pure Evil...I'd call it the Sphere of Absolute Purity or something. I'd wager the plan would be to get close enough to the Shard that the massive amount of good and lawful energy inside the Sphere would (hopefully) be enough to cancel out the chaos and evil in the Shard when detonated.
@@JanusHoWCould it be related with Ao or any other primordial? Like maybe the shard is Ao’s heart (hence his lack of compassion) or eyeball?
@@LackOfSleepIsAbsurd Pretty sure it was stated that the Shard came from the Obyriths' original cosmology, wherever it was.
Doing such a thing would inherently be evil so not sure it would be a net gain to use that Sphere. Wouldn't you just inspire the creation of a different kind of evil?
I love the obyrith.. makes me think of fear and the things that scare you
Talking about multidimensional aspect of gods and ancient beings makes me think of 3D chess if we could only see one 2D board focusing on the material plane; the gods invested deeply in the material plane for power so their machinations seem more sane and apparent but then the mysterious alien plots of otherworldly and abhorrent beings wouldn’t make sense to us as much as their aims are invested in other less intuitive aspects of reality.
Makes sense
I agree you can't really "stat" a god. any stat blocks provided in supplements I arbitrate as being for their "avatar," a tiny projected shard if themselves. stating like a monster kinda detracts from their mythological value, and can serve to mute the whole fantasy theme. 2dn ed Forgotten realms had a nice concept and frameworks in "faith and
Avatars"
I vehemently disagree.
I think stating them would be fine just don't worry about it being balanced, they are gods after all. Plus I think giving gods stats is a great way to provide a post campaign challenge to lv 20 characters who have no real challenge with the current stat blocks
I'd stat them, but in addition to just making their raw stats really OP I'd give them insurmountable hacks. Like 1 shot instakills against mortals with no saving throws and turning invulnerable at will. The fact that gods have separate ranks shows that by definition their power isn't truly infinite and shouldn't be portrayed as such, plus the lore of certain monsters being able to kill them. I'd argue only Greater deities are truly " All powerful and absolutely impossible for mortals to fight" whereas lesser and intermediate deites should just be really, really. Laughably brokely you're going to need shitloads of luck and outside help unfairly hard. Also for balance and my own OCD if the evil demon lords/ Archdevils can be defeated then their good aligned counterparts should be as well even if it's freakishly hard. Good should not be infinitely stronger then Evil, if Evil is gonna continue existing in campaigns and being a credible threat
@@agentchaos9332 yes like shao Kahn in mortal kombat 2. He wrecked you even on easy mode
Tbh I don’t even give my homebrew gods’ avatars statblocks. They are just plain unkillable without specific weapons which are paradoxically made using pieces of dead gods, and can kill you in a single blow.
I absolutely love your lore coverage. You manage to satisfy and then have me wanting more. And the fact that there's a tease to the universe before, causes me to wonder what in the 9 Hells that place was like?
I eagerly await any newer episodes you manage to make.
Seriously. That is hinting at some major Eternal Champion vibes.
You made the creepy demon from scratch? Oh my......you are very talented.
That song in the intro is wild. Sounds like something off of the new Doom game.
Let it be known. You are the best D&D channel on youtube. Period.
The tale of the Obyrith ; or the day H.P. Lovecraft came to D&D.
Yes, blame him
@@AJPickett
Just wanna say, while I'm rather late to this party. I appreciate your channel and the work you do.
Actually, Lovecraft was present in the first edition Deities & Demigods, which included Cthulhu et al. AFAICT the obyriths first appeared in third edition. (Heck, mind flayers first appeared in The Strategic Review #1 way back in 1975, and they're Lovecraftian as all get-out.)
@@tomkerruish2982
It was just a pun my dude.
@@Nyarlarthotep9 Sorry, I just can't help myself sometimes. Actually, any time.
I'm in the middle of converting D&D (various editions) over to gurps, and your videos give me a greater insight into the motivations and personalities of some very easy to overlook creatures. Thanks lots!
Most welcome, oddly enough, I have never played the GURPS system, it has been around for a very long time though, possibly the first true universal rule system?
If you include the previous Steve Jackson works, yes. It's a great deal of fun, but requires A LOT of prior prep. I usually steal from other game systems (not very hard to do), but 5 editions worth to look through...
So do the Obyrith war with the denziens of the far realm?
Hmmm, probably, the aberrations are so diverse, I think half the time, the Obyriths would simply use the aberrations to further their own goals.
Hate to disagree with the master, but I’m pretty sure the Obyrith would view them as a potential threat given their similarities in origin and intent. The Obyrith were the last beings from a reality that ended as this reality began and jumped ship into it. The Far Realmers(not a canon term, just what I call them sometimes) come from realties that border this reality and are powerful enough to push through the boundaries of both to go between the two. Both want control of this reality to recreate their own as they see fit. I find them being at war to be the most likely outcome, especially when you take into account that the Far Realm was created as a validation for incorporating Lovecraftian beings like Cthulhu into D&D. I really can’t see the Obyrith and the Great Old Ones getting along all too well unless there was a major threat to both that neither would be able to beat alone, like a group of extremely powerful gods actively attempting to destroy them both simultaneously. Other than that, they’re gunna be at each others necks.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog I do not see either of them as united enough to do something such as wage war. The demons only seem to be directed because they all wish to destroy the same thing. By nature each and every demons is only allied to itself and it is simply the overwhelming will of the demon lords that keep the gibbering multitude from scattering. For the far realm they would just see demons as yet another transdimensional being to either avoid or kill. Again, little to no coherency. Just the raw fight for survival.
"If it has stats, we can kill it." lol So all of these things are evil. Did any known good/lawful equivalents escape from the broken universe?
It would be interesting, but if there was I don't think there multivers would have ended as it did, but I like the idea
No is my guess. They would be devoured either before, during, or after thr transfer. If they weren't driven to evil by the madness of how they made the leap.
@@jacobfreeman5444 Unless what we're seeing are both the 'good and evil' but that universe was so alien there's no way for us to recognize the difference.
@@idigamstudios7463 That is only valid in a realistic world where morality is relative. This is a world where the gods are the moral authority on good and evil. Their decrees are absolute. And by the standards of those gods all known demons are evil. Also demons are driven to destroy everything but especually things that not evil. Since any not evil kin would be the closest thing to them...well, lets just say even if they started out decent enough the sheer needs for survival would crush that out of them. I can't say you can't have someone redeem a demon...but it would be rather difficult as they should be so psychologically scarred as to make the job impossible.
Rhapsody564 I feel like the LeShay fit that description pretty well.
Thank You AJ..I've had your videos playing on and off for 6 hours today as I work on the interior of my studio.🐲😁🐲
I want the Queen of Chaos and a video on the lowly goblin would be nice
Yeah, a vid on the war between law and chaos is certainly planned, and a that is two votes for the Goblin!
5:28 Oh hell yeah, that's the kind of thing I want from a chaotic evil fiend from the abyss.
Watching this on Independence Day in the USA. I thought the fireworks were just in my neighborhood.
I have come back to this video so many times over the years. You do great work
I have been working on a homebrew with everything growing it organically starting with the deities, elementals snd spirits (shamistic) and then decideing how they would interact with the terrain and each other. Then haveing the major events like the obyriths arrivial and the eventual creation of the other races. This video is useful as reaserch.
How would one summon an obyrith? What draws an abyrith from one realm to another?
Summoning ritual, just like the demons, it helps if you know what to call them, and helps even more if your character knows their true name.
I always love seeing your homemade minis! thanks for the ideas for 20 or so things to craft!😁🏰
And I always love to see the vids of your creations!
Is that old one eye on the thumbnail?
Is there really NO way, not EVER, for a character to completely destroy a god? Is it ever possible for a player to become a god? I mean in the basic rule set, anyone can homebrew, of course...
Shamus Farmer I will be addressing this topic in an upcoming video.
AJ Pickett Great! thank you.
During a game with a particularly inept DM, it was discovered that he'd allowed a player to have control of an entire banking system in Water Deep.....my wizard and another guys thief/assassin recruited a thieves guild (led by bank guy's wife's character) and we straight up pulled off an Oceans Eleven type heist. We got over 9 billion gold and other precious metals. It was all taken from an off site location, so in game, no one knew immediately that all the banks of Water Deep were now completely worthless. We paid off the help and with what remained of the booty our characters traded gp for xp at the exchange rate suggested in the DMG. We did some math and based on xp our characters leveled up to 12,224 Wizard and Assasin/Thief. The DM forced us to "retire as lesser power dieties" We both rolled up new characters and made our old characters our gods :D :D :D
Immortals Handbook ascension by Craig Cochran goes into detail on this
Its possible if you try at it for long enough, but most importantly your character would have to become a multiplanar and probably have help from a god... Or more, but it's something that would take hundreds of 20's in a row
As always, that was an awesome video sir. For the next Abyss entry I'd vote for the Succubus or Charon's Marraenoloth, even though neither is limited to that plane alone and the Marraenoloth aren't native. For the various types of Goblin, I'd vote for Bugbears.
I do love Bugbears, they make for the very best evil goons.
What if the obyrith are what a god looks like before becoming a god. They’re a piece of a proto-god, thrusting across the boundaries of space and time for the first time, so they lack the skill to control their appearance that older gods have.
That would make the demons the angels of infant gods, gaining through horror and terror what the older gods get through worship.
It’s an interesting thought. And better yet, it would explain why the gods are so keen to wipe them out.
That and demons are corruptive and corrosive to reality. So letting demons do whatever just ruins everything even if the demon does nothing.
I would like to see what the scenario would be that would call for an inevitable and a bebilith to deal with it.
Is there really a difference between the obyrith and far realm entities
Yes
I've watched this video 3 times. AJ Pickett's videos fuel me as a DM and this one more than others.
Great video. It's so hard to keep up with all the lore ever since they changed everything in 4E
You have the coolest channel
Thanks Dan :)
If there are "dream demons", than to fight them you must have, you guessed it " The Dream Warriors", ( cue the music)
This makes me wonder how long would a party of adventures survive against a hive tryant..... Or much less a carnifex.....
Was that a picture of the Queen of Chaos, and if so where'd you get it because it's pretty awesome
Oh I find images based on key word searchs on Google, so, I have no idea what specific site many of them come from.
I'd love to know where you find all these Images these are awesome.
All credit to the artists, all of the art is found with simple google image searching, I just throw in some key words and see what pops up.
loved the video. great metroidvania style monster.
The monsters of monsters.
A video of the loumara demons would be really interesting.
The layer below the last is deeper than we’ve ever been.
Its kinda fitting that even speaking about the Obyirith causes the material world to encroach upon you
I didn't realise at first that the helicopter was in the video. Hurray for good speakers.
Not sure why they didn't just make the oberiths from the far realm maybe the agents of the great old ones.....or just say that they are the great old ones
Dunno, guess they wanted to play around with different concepts.
Sounds like how the Elder god from Soul Reaver would be an obyrith, his being is extended into other planes, spectral, material, past, present, and future
13:50
Think of the dimensions as a shattered mirror. Each piece being a dimension. The Gods are outside that mirror but their reflection (avatars) and influence are across dimensions, the shattered peices of the mirror.
I like the string analogy. Some could call that… string theory?…….. you’re welcome
Those aren't fireworks in the background that's people's sanity exploding after looking at these Lovecraftian nightmare fule monsters.
Goblinoids! I'm curious about what variations of goblins you find appealing . There are a lot of cultures. I have a particular fondness for scavenger-use everything goblins (kind of like jawas from Star Wars), as their creations and setting are inspiring.
Yeah, there are LOADS of goblin variants.. even the Nilbog is a type of goblin.
Wouldn't the players be Onyrith that insert creatures into reality to do their bidding? Mind blown.
I get where you're coming from with regards to the gods, when saying they shouldn't have stats, or be killable. But the in Universe Lore really does show that they _are_ able to be killed by mortals. In fact, pretty much anything less than an Overgod (like AO), can be killed Characters of 20th level (at least in theory), and there are examples of every tier/rank of Deity being killed and replaced by either other gods, or by powerful Mortals.
In fact, even Overgods like AO are shown to *_not_* be All-Powerful, or All-Knowing, despite beings orders of magnitude more powerful than even Greater gods, and actually serve the Luminous Being. So it is (at least in theory) even possible for Overgods to be killed (either by other Overgods, or perhaps by coalitions of greater gods, etc).
Is Pennywise an Obyrith? It fits
Yes.
"Special interest groups" lol, I admire your discipline, sir. I will be publishing a memoir soon that includes many a not so kind utterance about said "groups" if I understand the recent Hasbeen Corp OGL on Wotc properties, it will include playable material relevant to them as well.
Half the entertainment of these videos comes from listening to tmg fumble over these names with that accent
*le sigh*
Ah yes, Veroth-kun. The Japanese obyrith.
For those who don't know, Guy Fawks night celebrates the last man with honest intentions to enter the British houses of parliment.
Oh yeah! Wasn't he wearing a "V For Vendetta" mask?😁
Seriously, I live in California, and the only other person here I know who knows who Guy Fawkes was is an immigrant from London.
While I can agree that sometimes the idea of "if it has stats, we can kill it" is annoying for my players to have, there are times where, like Graz'zt, Demogorgon, or other Demon Lords, I wish some of these Obyriths had 5e stats. Maybe they'd even have a Tiamat/Auril-like discorporation effect that saves them from true oblivion, even if the party does "kill" the representation of it they encounter, but it might be nice to see how current Obox-Ob stacks up to Demogorgon, or have rules for the Queen of Chaos, and Miska, to end a massive campaign involving the Rod of Seven Parts. They might rule a layer of the Abyss each, but the Demon Lords seem to still be in control, calling the Obyrith's power into question, and I wonder if they just reform in the Abyss, when they are felled, like a Devil, or Demon, or if they have some other mechanic? Would they be Fiends, or Aberations?
Wait. Would the thing from the end of Worm be like an obyrith?
Another awesome lore video! Query @Aj, on some fundamental level could you consider Lovecraftian Old Ones to be similar to Obryth? Now I’m not saying they are exactly the same. But both come from the Far Realm and even possibly a completely different universe. I was even playing with ideas of having the “Old Ones” come from an alternate reality where at some point in the distant past they quarreled with the Obryth in their previous universe! 🤯
I include them as Primordials
Very interesting indeed sir!🤔
I’m curious as to the thoughts that led to that @AJ. Also would do you think both would have interacted previously prior to making their way to D&D?
AJ do you think the Obyrith's metaverse went through the same cycle from order to complete chaos? Was it initiated by another version of them eons and eons ago like an endless loop?
Yes
@@AJPickett me too. DND has the richest history of any world I've researched. The fact that it asks these eternal questions in a fantasy setting is a testament to that. Thanks so much for all your work. I started knowing zero and feel like I have a pretty good grasp on it after only going through only 1/4 of it.
I feel like killing an aspect of a god would really suck for them, because while they reconstitute, their portfolio would be vulnerable too being subsumed by other entities. Also I feel by doing that, maybe the godkiller would absorb some of the energy release by a destroyed avatar, maybe in some way preventing immediate reprisal.
I would like to know more about each obyrith
Do you think you could convince an oberith to take you to the far realm.... I just think that would be a diffecolt but fun campaign
What do you suppose a Tiefling descended from Obyriths would look like? What would a tiefling descended from Pazuzu or Obox Ob or Pale Night look like?
Your profile pic... sorry, couldn't resist. Hmmm, some sort of crab-spider-octopus-lantern fish humanoid mutant parasite hybrid, barely held together by translucent, maggot-hide, slick with odorous mucus, gibbering and throbbing with vicious and unwholesome cravings?
@@AJPickett
Eh kind of walked into that one. Anyway, I’ve been wondering: what is the difference between an Obyrith and an Aberration? For that matter, what do the mindflayers and Aboleths think of the Obyriths and the abyss. Surely they must deem it a threat?
AJ knowing all that you know about the Dungeons & Dragons universe would you rather live in our universe or the Dungeons & Dragons universe?
This one. I like the idea that we have infinite potential in this universe.
Lol why pick just 1 universe, why not all?
Love the intro
Did he say one of these is trapped in "The World of Darkness"? So it is trapped in another table top rpg?
I think that’s a tyrannid.
Yeah it is. I rip art from Warhammer all the time, because its derived from D&D anyway :)
@@AJPickett cool, I didn’t know that.
Dude sick rif
I have a Drow High Elf Giant hybrid warrior mage based on Oni Link in Looks.
11:05
That is so badass looking.
The thumbnail is straight up a tyranid (pronounced TIE-RAN-ID) warrior!
What were the dragon-like obyrith called? I couldn't quite work out how to spell it from hearing it and can't find them online
Is the Lady of Pain an Obyrith?
Nobody knows
Mites and Snyads would be interesting.
Ooo, I like those little guys, not goblinoids, but sure, added to the list!
Oh well I forgot that and had to read up in the folio again.
Which led me to read up on another (non-goblinoid) that my group encounter this sunday the meenlocks.
Thanks for a wonderful series and giving great tips on weird creatures. I actually almost had a TPK (ops) when my group fought some Gorbels thanks to you pointing them out.
what book did you get these out of? I have heard of some but there was a lot I had never heard of before.
Multiple dragon magazine articles, a collection of archived Wikipedia articles, plus a big stack of old D&D Books, such as the monster manuals, Elder Evils, Hordes of the Abyss, etc.
They remind me of the '80s movie From Beyond.
Oily black squid like creatures that steal memories, Mind Flayers sounds like.
/rewatching this I had a sort of rules-lawyer thought about becoming a god. at 13:49 you said, paraphrasing, a god existing on multiple planes is kind of like us putting our finger tip through the surface of the ocean. to become a god you must be aware of yourself on multiple planes. so the idea is that i could open four portals and put a limb in each, be aware of myself on five dimensions and thereby become a god. well that might not work, it is kind of similar to how you described the obyrith working, except that the equivalent would probably be, if each of your hands and feet had their own mind which was connected to your 'main mind'.
i don't think it accounts for some aspects of actually becoming a god but its kind of a funny thought.
p.s. response to rhapsody564 1yr old, tserf skcuoal 6month old, and jacob freeman 4month old comments: I could be wrong, but I think AJ actually answered your question at 3:55 :
Are there any lawful/good Obyrith? the queen of chaos killed any who refused to join her army, that would leave just the evil/chaotic sort.
What a horrific and disgustingly shocking terrifying putrid Munster.Can you play a campaign where no evil monsters try to kill you and you only fight people in a city setting.
Having looked at deities and demigods for 3.5, where they have the stats for a good amount of the Norse pantheon, hecate, and many others. You aren't killing a God.
I don't care what kinda gear you have, you aren't killing a God.
I swear its like adds ever 3 min! Omg!!!
Thanks for the feedback, I've reconfigured the vid back to how it was before.
My version of obyrth is where you say no I wont help you I like this girl give her to me or else I wont help you. Basically the ogre mage, like throwing a hot nail into the snow and expecting everybody else to pull it out
I'm hearing this, particularly around 11 minutes and existing in multiple realities and times and wondering how Mystra was mounted and killed by a human without her or another god noticing and stopping it from happening. I get her with most focus on the weave but not another.
Youd think the gods would have a fair amount if focus on that empire with them playing with such high tiered spells.
Also really makes me wonder just how big the damage was done and such magic/reality manipulation going on during the dawn war. What those stats and abilities would look like.
I love Bugbears, Mariliths, and Xill!
Bugbears please.
I like how whenever someone needs an image of demons it is always Warhammer, no this is not an elitist Warhammer is a better thing, just me noticing a pattern that I find interesting.
Warhammer does good demon art.
Any chance for a detail video on the Queen of Chaos and her chosen husband?
By your monologue, Raistlin shouldn't have been able to challenge Takhisis in the dragonlance setting. 🤔
I think I might be a hedonist. I think everyone I've ever heard of is one too.
I need some help theory crafting on a cosmic scale. I dont know enough about the abyss to say anything like this (outside of Tharizdun) is supported in lore, but I cant find much on the subject.
So Obyriths come from a different universe that has colapsed. It was then the obyriths gave Tharizdun a seed of pure evil which when planted, is what grew into the abyss (originally they wanted it planted in a celestial plane, but Tharizdun couldnt manage that). Do you know anything about that seed? I cant seem to find much.
Here comes the theory craft portion; maybe the seed is from their original dimension and thats why the abyss is infinite because its actually 'growing'. Maybe the source of what collapsed their original dimension. By spreading it, provides a mean of escaping obliteration until it grows to large and totally consumes another universe, collapsing in on itself. Before this collapse, they reach into another universe to plant a seed in which they can live on until the process repeats itself.
This uproots itself if there is any established lore on this seed of evil and I need to promptly go back through any of your videos dealing with the abyss. But what do you think?
After watching your video on the Abyss and Pale Night, Im happy with the theory so far. Pale night wants to remake her home and after an eon or so, has to start over. In my game, this will explain the lack of lvl 20 champions running around as most pulled aside by a diety or arch devil, grouped up or set aside in a sort of invasion force. They are then sent into the Abyss to try and slow the inevitable, maybe some groups even strive to take out Pale Night or find the 'root' of the Abyss. This is information that only the gods and devils know and share it only as they recruit proven champions
It is a dark red, crystal shard, like a broken rod, basically it acts as an artefact that tears open a portal between two different planes, Tharizdun decided not to use it in the Astral plane, opting to use it in the Elemental chaos instead. Here is the mind bending part.. being from outside of the universe means that, like Ao, the overgod, the shard exists outside of time and space, it has alternate physical laws that govern it, just as the Obrynth do, it is these aberrant laws that allow them to exist in such drastically alien forms, and it was when souls of mortal started to pour into the abyss that they crafted them into the first demons, imagine a scale of corrupting power, there is basic, natural entropy, then there is anti-life/negative energy, then there is demonic energy (which is corrupted elemental energy), then there is Far Realm energy (which is corrupted psychic power),The Obrynth universe could be from the end of time or before the universe of D&D began, the Abyss that Tharizdun created may be the cause of the fall of their own universe, their corruption of the universe that motivates Tharizdun to destroy it and remake it, may be his fault entirely, and it is something that has happened, must happen, will always happen, and there is nothing he can do to stop it, the awareness of which is what has driven him insane. He is the source of corruption he exists to correct.
AJ Pickett wow. mind bending indeed... just... ugh my brain
There sure is a lot of detail to the 'lore' of hell or the abyss or whatever. Is there a divine/celestial/good aligned equivalent because it seems like the abyss is way more detailed and 'lived in' than other 'planes'.
Good question! Yes, there certainly is, all of the 'outer' planes are still at large in the D&D cosmology, there are a few differences, mainly with the positive and negative planes being good and evil aligned, and the elemental planes being merged together into the elemental chaos, which has regions instead of being different elemental dimensions (so, you could send a character on a massive journey around all the elemental regions without having to plane shift even once, in theory), the prime material planes (basically different prime material probabilities) are usually depicted at the centre of cosmology maps, but the truth is, all the different dimensions co-exist in the same location, in a manner of speaking. The divine outer realms are specific zones defined and contained by the powers that occupy or created them, they are artificial cosmic zones that border the transitive realm of conciousness and potential which is the astral sea. The astral sea and the ethereal realm are not different locations in space, they exist in parallel within the prime planes and the inner planes, and so forth.. the maps that are drawn, showing a great wheel or stacked layers, or a connecting tree, are all just representations for beings that evolved in a prime material world.. we don't comprehend things within things, within things particularly well.
Anyway, yes, the celestial realms are all there, and no doubt I will be talking about them at some point.. people seem to enjoy these talks about D&D cosmology, history and such.
Ah ha, uh, I didn't really understand all that. Is there like some sort of graph or picture that explains 'where' these places are or how exactly they are connected or traversed? It seems really abstract and fantastical; difficult to comprehend.
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/World_Tree_cosmology for detailed info on the modern cosmology and a great picture of the inner planes is blogofholding.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/4eplanes.jpg and i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0378/55/1423151412676.png
Definitely more complex than what I can understand.
Well, clearly I have my work cut out for me then :)
I know they based a lot of this on Lovecraft, but what I think makes the outer gods and great old ones fun is that they barely recognize humanity as 'beings' at all, let alone sentient. Lovecraft and his circle of writers often say humanity are like insects to them, but it's more like humanity are bacteria or fungii, except that a few of them can communicate with us on some level, like nyarlathotep. It's like they went to bed one night, and their fridge has a bunch of mold inside on Saturday, after they slept in until 2pm. They hate us and want us gone, but it's not really personal, and, like us, they don't really discriminate between penicillin and the other gunk... they want to get rid of their worshippers just as much as everyone else.
What would a sword enchanted by a god have to have that would kill these things? Something that destroys their presence through time? What about alternate planes? Is that something a god could even bestow to a mortal?
Absolutely.
DAGON is both Obyrith and Mythos
Dat Tyranid on the icon tho lol
Couldn't a god kill another god?
Yes, depend on so many variables, but yeah, it happens.
Only problem will be power vacuums and the powers the slain god unleashes on death.
Even those ones tend to come back to life
Do you talk about the manes demon
An Uh counter would be epic!
When are going to talk about manes demon?
Is it possible to combine or crossbreed all dragons or demons together?
A demon could be turned into a half dragon.
Could you make a basic timeline of the universe of dnd? like Ao, then the obyrith, the aboleths, the gods, the dragons, giants, etc? Also, how is the far realm different than the universe the obyrith came from?
I could do that, now I think I have a better idea of the order of things. The Obrynth come from a completely separate multiverse, outside of Ao's territory, the Far Realm consists of all the alternate realities that are so different from the usual prime material planes, that they have different laws of physics, which can be very disruptive when they make an incursion into a more mundane reality.