I watch this talk over and over again, because even though its a great talk there are too much infos for a short period of time. So I take one of the points highlighted and explore that point for a week. That has been working for me.
in case anyone wanted to find the book he recommended, the author is Steve Oualline. CC doesn't show this when you try to figure out what the speaker said...
You are probably right about it being a cultural thing, and I am probably unduly perplexed because I am a foreigner to that world for the most part. On this side of the fence, we have phenomena such as Sublime Text where they basically simplify the IDE concept and really polish the parts that remain. I think this gives users an "Oh wow" experience up front, but I wonder how long it will last. If something isn't extensible-friendly, it has a short shelf life IMO.
Awesome! Never thought there could be so many and so long videos about VI/VIM (and Emacs) on TH-cam! People use text editors (VI/VIM, Emacs) to "produce" scientific articles, academic theses, books/textbooks, etc. too (with TeX/LaTeX and amsmath, for example) -- not just to write computer programs! When it comes to typing speed (per keystroke)/effectiveness, I'm very proud that I can type with all of the... 10 fingers -- equally! Not sure that's so worthy of a pride, but still... :D Two funny factoids about VI/VIM and Emacs, in case some folks might miss it :D +) ``If you let a newbie (non Vim user) try to save and close a VI/VIM session, the keystrokes would give us `a true set of random variables' '' +) ``Emacs is a great operating system, lacking only a decent text editor!''
See my other reply about the tags db, but on the topic of speed I have never had an issue. I usually use ctags to generate one large tags file for a project (saves it from searching multiple tags files). Also, from my experience the tag features of many IDEs only list tags in the most current version of code (and some go through the C preprocessor first), but I can use several tags files for different releases of the same code (very useful for test stubs).
I have been using Slickedit for 10+ years, and got it up to 1500 hotkeys. As far as cursor-nav, have you seen what Webstorm (plugin?) has? Basically, (prefix-key) (char-on-screen) will pop up tiny tooltips everywhere char is found, then just hit the key on the tooltip to jump there. For sanity, with a-zA-Z, it only tips on word or camel boundaries. I thought it was so cool I built it for Slickedit.
I'm glad you have so much time on your hands that you've devoted it all to learning not one text editor ... but two! So, whilst the rest of use fulfil our quest to become proficient in either VIM || emacs you can live happy knowing you are the God of text editors. *rolls eyes*
isee an IDE is an editor basically designed and tailored for a particular develpoment task or programming language, e.g. eclipse for java (or various plugins for others), visual studio for ms c++, c# etc. vim is the other way. its an editor and you can tailor it to the task that you want be it programming, emails, technical documents, etc.
My only (excuse) explanation of this is that vim follows the Unix "Use a specific tool for a specific job" philosophy. Vim makes it easy to run command-line programs, and even recommends using the real grep/etc when better performance is required. It is a very old-fashioned way of thinking, but IMHO it works. There are many plugins to vim to improve the tags support, but even stock it is very good. Is it really so hard to type "ctags -R" in your project root directory?
I see now; I misinterpreted your misinterpretation ;) Vim has great tag support (via ctags) and has quick and powerful tag features (probably my most used feature, especially in code review). I figured you knew this and were commenting on the search utility. I can't recall now (too long since watching), but I think the grepping was mentioned for a different reason.
I have not seen that, but it sounds similar to the "f" key in Vimperator for Firefox. You hit "f" and it will number every link/object on the visible page, then you can just type the number you want or type text to narrow down the choices to a smaller number. I don't know that vim has anything quite like that, but you can do f-N-(char) or t-N-(char) to go to, or just before, the Nth occurrence of char. Not quite as nice, but I can get this feature in vim on my phone over an ssh connection.
I recommend you stick with it. Vim is definitely used by many professionals, but a video of someone typing sounds very boring to me. Maybe take some time to look at vim lessons or tips/tricks to see Vim's real power. Also, note that you will not see all of the benefits if you are only typing content and not editing it. For me, Vim shines when you are editing a a large project, especially if you are doing repetitive changes. Just remember to learn primarily from using (not from reading).
I agree. I just don't see the implied logic of "tags is a feature that lies in IDE-land, and since I'm not an IDE..." -- where I disagree with both the premise and conclusion. Explorer.exe is not an IDE either, but it does content indexing. Seems downright Luddite to me.
I've already heard about this learning curve 1000 times)) My ears can't listen to the same thing :) What I'm looking for are arguments, basically why do I have to learn it. If you ask me whether chess is a good game or not and I'll answer you that there is a learning curve. So,,, It's not an answer, is it? ;)
Many functions (endless extensibility through the plugins), easy on RAM, CLI - so available through the SSH (or remote editing), preinstalled in macOS and Linux, possible to execute shell commands from it, vim-diff is usefull with git diftool, also possible to edit files inside archive, view files over http. Free and opensource. Among usefull plugins: Gitgutter (show marks for changed/altered/deleted lines with the ability to preview original or revert), ALE (linter for many languages).
If you don't want to use it, you don't want to use it. Personally, I am more productive with it because my fingers leave the home row of the keyboard less. Also, you can do complex things over and over on the fly using the dot command.
why do you need arguments to use vim? research it. use it. add some of the plugins that make it even more powerful. and then decide for yourself. vim isn't a vegetable and you aren't a child that needs convincing that it is good for you.
If more expectation is put on the user of vim to program it to the task, a tags db api would be more in demand, not less. In SlickEdit for example, you can make a callback that the tags db will use for a particular language. You cant script a tags engine yourself because it needs to be fast. Does vim have dll plugins you can make?
Maybe you misunderstand my objection. It is not that you are grepping, its that you are grepping for something that should be already indexed by your IDE -- aka 'tags'.
I know this was more than 10 years ago, but geez... The quality of the video is dreadful. Bram shows slides that don't appear in the video... The misspell of his name in the description... If this was produced by a small company it would be fine - but this was a multi-billion dollar 12 years ago...
I still can only guess how vim is good! I've never seen a good example of professional work in the vim on the Internet! I mean there is no good clip that people could have a possibility to understand that vim is a really effective editor. So.. For this moment I've been using the VIM for a week. And I already know a couple of things I really like, but it's still not proving that the notepad.exe is much worst!
No disrespect to this gentleman or vim... but. Grepping for refs? Is this 1980 or something? Doesn't vim have a tags db? My take on editors is this -- you will always have 3, two of which you get to choose. A simple editor (Sublime or Notepad++); your 'home' editor.. something fast and programmable (Slickedit); and your IDE from hell.. which will always be too slow to do productive editing, but is necc, for code analysis and plugins (VStudio).
![[En] Vim: From hjkl to a platform for plugins](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ES1L2SPgIDI/mqdefault.jpg)
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Sir Bram you will live on FOREVER!
RIP Bram
I watch this talk over and over again, because even though its a great talk there are too much infos for a short period of time. So I take one of the points highlighted and explore that point for a week. That has been working for me.
in case anyone wanted to find the book he recommended, the author is Steve Oualline. CC doesn't show this when you try to figure out what the speaker said...
Great talks always come with the worst camera guys!
The abstract says Bram Moolenaar is the Speaker and then at the end it says Brian Moolenaar. It should be corrected to say Bram Moolenaar.
You are probably right about it being a cultural thing, and I am probably unduly perplexed because I am a foreigner to that world for the most part.
On this side of the fence, we have phenomena such as Sublime Text where they basically simplify the IDE concept and really polish the parts that remain.
I think this gives users an "Oh wow" experience up front, but I wonder how long it will last.
If something isn't extensible-friendly, it has a short shelf life IMO.
3 doritos later and nobody is using sublime anymore 🤷♂
@@VictorMedinaM the fuck are you saying?! I use it daily as my main editor
RIP hero!!
Awesome! Never thought there could be so many and so long videos about VI/VIM (and Emacs) on TH-cam!
People use text editors (VI/VIM, Emacs) to "produce" scientific articles, academic theses, books/textbooks, etc. too (with TeX/LaTeX and amsmath, for example) -- not just to write computer programs!
When it comes to typing speed (per keystroke)/effectiveness, I'm very proud that I can type with all of the... 10 fingers -- equally! Not sure that's so worthy of a pride, but still... :D
Two funny factoids about VI/VIM and Emacs, in case some folks might miss it :D
+) ``If you let a newbie (non Vim user) try to save and close a VI/VIM session, the keystrokes would give us `a true set of random variables' ''
+) ``Emacs is a great operating system, lacking only a decent text editor!''
See my other reply about the tags db, but on the topic of speed I have never had an issue. I usually use ctags to generate one large tags file for a project (saves it from searching multiple tags files).
Also, from my experience the tag features of many IDEs only list tags in the most current version of code (and some go through the C preprocessor first), but I can use several tags files for different releases of the same code (very useful for test stubs).
I have been using Slickedit for 10+ years, and got it up to 1500 hotkeys. As far as cursor-nav, have you seen what Webstorm (plugin?) has?
Basically, (prefix-key) (char-on-screen) will pop up tiny tooltips everywhere char is found, then just hit the key on the tooltip to jump there.
For sanity, with a-zA-Z, it only tips on word or camel boundaries. I thought it was so cool I built it for Slickedit.
Try it, the best is you see it by yourself.
I'm glad you have so much time on your hands that you've devoted it all to learning not one text editor ... but two! So, whilst the rest of use fulfil our quest to become proficient in either VIM || emacs you can live happy knowing you are the God of text editors. *rolls eyes*
RIP master
isee an IDE is an editor basically designed and tailored for a particular develpoment task or programming language, e.g. eclipse for java (or various plugins for others), visual studio for ms c++, c# etc. vim is the other way. its an editor and you can tailor it to the task that you want be it programming, emails, technical documents, etc.
RIP
My only (excuse) explanation of this is that vim follows the Unix "Use a specific tool for a specific job" philosophy. Vim makes it easy to run command-line programs, and even recommends using the real grep/etc when better performance is required. It is a very old-fashioned way of thinking, but IMHO it works.
There are many plugins to vim to improve the tags support, but even stock it is very good.
Is it really so hard to type "ctags -R" in your project root directory?
In the description has the speaker as Brian????
Rename video to contain the speaker's name, it will have more views
The speaker-name in the video-descriptions is misspelled. This is Bram Moolenaar, not Brian Moolenaar.
They should have used a vim completion shortcut.
Rest in peace Bram
I see now; I misinterpreted your misinterpretation ;)
Vim has great tag support (via ctags) and has quick and powerful tag features (probably my most used feature, especially in code review). I figured you knew this and were commenting on the search utility.
I can't recall now (too long since watching), but I think the grepping was mentioned for a different reason.
What's Sublime Text 2's Vintage mode like? (I love it as an editor anyway but I'd love to get really fast at one).
I have not seen that, but it sounds similar to the "f" key in Vimperator for Firefox. You hit "f" and it will number every link/object on the visible page, then you can just type the number you want or type text to narrow down the choices to a smaller number.
I don't know that vim has anything quite like that, but you can do f-N-(char) or t-N-(char) to go to, or just before, the Nth occurrence of char. Not quite as nice, but I can get this feature in vim on my phone over an ssh connection.
use :iabbrev Brian Bram to avoid such typing errors
RIP Legend
I recommend you stick with it. Vim is definitely used by many professionals, but a video of someone typing sounds very boring to me. Maybe take some time to look at vim lessons or tips/tricks to see Vim's real power.
Also, note that you will not see all of the benefits if you are only typing content and not editing it. For me, Vim shines when you are editing a a large project, especially if you are doing repetitive changes.
Just remember to learn primarily from using (not from reading).
What makes X an IDE? Debug support? Is Sublime Text 3 and 'IDE', it has 'find refs'.
what is the vimrc published that Bram mentiones at 50m00s? I did not understand the name of the author to look for... Thanks.
I agree. I just don't see the implied logic of "tags is a feature that lies in IDE-land, and since I'm not an IDE..." -- where I disagree with both the premise and conclusion.
Explorer.exe is not an IDE either, but it does content indexing. Seems downright Luddite to me.
i think richard stallman secretly uses vim to hack the emacs source code
What a nice guy.
Working for me right now. (In Flash.)
Look for "vim easymotion".
I've already heard about this learning curve 1000 times)) My ears can't listen to the same thing :) What I'm looking for are arguments, basically why do I have to learn it.
If you ask me whether chess is a good game or not and I'll answer you that there is a learning curve. So,,, It's not an answer, is it? ;)
Many functions (endless extensibility through the plugins), easy on RAM, CLI - so available through the SSH (or remote editing), preinstalled in macOS and Linux, possible to execute shell commands from it, vim-diff is usefull with git diftool, also possible to edit files inside archive, view files over http. Free and opensource. Among usefull plugins: Gitgutter (show marks for changed/altered/deleted lines with the ability to preview original or revert), ALE (linter for many languages).
If you don't want to use it, you don't want to use it.
Personally, I am more productive with it because my fingers leave the home row of the keyboard less. Also, you can do complex things over and over on the fly using the dot command.
Does Bram use mac as he personal computer?
why do you need arguments to use vim? research it. use it. add some of the plugins that make it even more powerful. and then decide for yourself. vim isn't a vegetable and you aren't a child that needs convincing that it is good for you.
If more expectation is put on the user of vim to program it to the task, a tags db api would be more in demand, not less.
In SlickEdit for example, you can make a callback that the tags db will use for a particular language.
You cant script a tags engine yourself because it needs to be fast. Does vim have dll plugins you can make?
Maybe you misunderstand my objection. It is not that you are grepping, its that you are grepping for something that should be already indexed by your IDE -- aka 'tags'.
stick with vim. there's a learning curve, but it's far more powerful than notepad (if you're not joking).
Awesome tip 39:56
I would say debug support is the biggest indicator of an IDE. If you're using makefiles you are definitely not using an IDE (unless by choice).
Terrible camera work. When slides are used, they are there for a purpose.
February 13, 2007...
make a vim golf of it
something wrong with the audio stream, can't hear at all.
Watch from 00:50 min
Richard Stallman doesn't browse TH-cam.
Bruh show the screen
I know this was more than 10 years ago, but geez... The quality of the video is dreadful. Bram shows slides that don't appear in the video... The misspell of his name in the description... If this was produced by a small company it would be fine - but this was a multi-billion dollar 12 years ago...
is it me or he looks like elon musk
I still can only guess how vim is good! I've never seen a good example of professional work in the vim on the Internet! I mean there is no good clip that people could have a possibility to understand that vim is a really effective editor.
So.. For this moment I've been using the VIM for a week. And I already know a couple of things I really like, but it's still not proving that the notepad.exe is much worst!
Life really is too short to persist with either.
In Jesus' Name Amen ✝️
No disrespect to this gentleman or vim... but.
Grepping for refs? Is this 1980 or something?
Doesn't vim have a tags db?
My take on editors is this -- you will always have 3, two of which you get to choose.
A simple editor (Sublime or Notepad++); your 'home' editor.. something fast and programmable (Slickedit); and your IDE from hell.. which will always be too slow to do productive editing, but is necc, for code analysis and plugins (VStudio).
richard stallman disliked this video (1 dislike)
meh
vim is not an ide
this comedian is not funny at all
Dude needs a class for effective getting to the fucking point. There is maybe 3 minutes of information in this 1 hour and 20 minutes.
RIP
RIP