God I love Louie Simmons . Him :”Ok well I’m gonna take your word for it , since I have tested it .” Louie *immediately setting shit up to prove his point * “Well here, you might as well test it .”
Thanks Louie. I injured my knee from decelerating too fast in close stance squats and couldn't break parallel without severe knee pain. I changed to wide stance and the decreased ROM allows me to go below parallel as well as take less weight off my knees and onto my hips. Squat increased 50lbs instantly and am looking forward to how the my hips will now transfer into my close stance deadlift.
People speak negatively towards wide stance squats and wide bench press (in general) and say it reduces range of motion. Those same people won't hesitate to advocate the use of WIDE grip pullups in one's workout routine (even though they clearly reduce the range of motion as well). Wide stance squats work well with box squats but there are great squatters who squat narrow, medium, and wide.
4 years old but i thought I would reply. Wide grip pull ups do reduce the ROM but the main reason for doing them is to isolate the lat. A narrow grip causes most people to over use their biceps.
3 years old but i tought I would reply. Close grip pull ups enhance the stretch of the lat muscle and allows for a greater movement of the scapula. So in this case a greater stretch on the lats recruits the largest possible amount of muscle fibers to be activated. Also, the function of the lat in its purest form is achieved with the elbow traveling in front of the body to behind you. So the wide grip pull up is an incomplete movement.
I didn't get it. Keeping my foot stance wide, how do I train more hips - with my feet turned outward (aka ballet dancer) or my feet straight (aka the soldier salute).
@mrgravyx Did u even listen to what he was saying? He said that narrow stance would't do anything for wide stance. But wide stance would do everything for close stance.
"Can we close stance squat, yes, can we kick everyone's ass, yes" - right Louie, which is why you have so many record holders that don't use (to quote Benedikt Magnusson) self lifting helping suits.
He is saying don't compensate at the feet, to make up for lack of hip strength. A person with weak hips can get into a wide stance superficially by turning the feet way out (heels will be way in). Someone with strong hips can get into a wide stance no problem with feet ~parallel, or toes just out (and obviously toes angled even further out)
Why is it true that a wide stance squat has the same quad activation as a narrow stance squat? Is Louie referring only to narrow stance squats of the same depth as the wide stance squats or does this include really deep narrow stance squats? It seems to me that squats with really acute knee angle would stress the quads more for a given weight than a more hip dominant squat. I might see I wide stance squat stressing the quads as much as a narrow simple because you would be using more weight. But, if you use the same weight for both squatting styles, I would expect the narrow stance squat the work the quads harder.
i think he only generally cares about squats that reach a "meet legal" depth, for his sport, equiped powerlifting, meet legal is around parallel. He wants to build a meet legal squat with good activation, not go ass to grass close stance squats, he wants his lifters to have a 60/40 ham to quad ratio.
They did a EMG study in the 90’s and after several test they concluded that there was little to no difference in quadtricep activation wide vs narrow stance. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10188748/
"The quadriceps muscles can contract more efficiently when the feet are pointing slightly outward. They should never point straight ahead. If you squat with a very wide stance, your adductors tend to assist the quads. This can result in stress to the medial collateral ligament, abnormal cartilage loading, and improper patellar tracking." - Fred Hatfield, Ph.D and 3 time World Powerlifting Champion.
Seems like the natural thing to do. My feet also want to point outward a lot in close stance if I go ass to the grass. With wide, I worry about over developing the inner thigh though.
the majority of Olympic athletes are on PED's klokov the Russian team and many many more all avail of growth hormone and other drugs the difference is westside are open about their drug use.
Probably because you havent learned to wide stance squat right, lifting heavy is not supposed to feel comfortable. People i have met that has a correct bench press position for heavy lifting, not a single one have said that it is a "comfortable" position.
it can, but not like a posterior chain dominant movement, such as the box squat, deadlift vars, etc.. these translate better to speed and overall athleticism.. look at the knee angle of a sprinter's front leg.. obtuse aka hamstring and butt dominant
I love Louie but his opinion on wide building close and sump building conventional are the opposite of everything I have experienced or seen personally.
James Eldridge I disagree. My close stance box squat and only squat, builds my dead lift but doesn't build my sumo deadlift or regular squat (slightly out of shoulder width), while a sumo deadlift and wide stance box squat or free squat, builds the shit out my oly squat. View it as a block pull. It acts as a overload tool, and strengthens different muscles. Also the execution of the box squat is often not done properly. You need to sit down and flex your ass off of it. Teaches you to use more posterior chain. Maybe its not for everyone.
What is your experience? If you are going to cast doubt on a coach w/ Louie's track record you should have some real-world things to point to as justification.
definitely is for everyone :) .. nice block pull analogy which is essentially a pure hinge.. for off the floor: wider the stance, the lower to the ground(bar) the lifter can go without the knees coming forward -- aka the more the lifter can rely on a pure hinge (hammies/butt) versus bringing in some squatting mechanics (depth)
Training conventional does fuck all for my sumo, but sumo has tremendous carryover to my conventional. Before I trained sumo my conventional was 200lbs heavier than my sumo, focusing it has for the past few training cycles has added another 100lbs to my conventional.
My suggestion in regard to EVERYTHING you READ or HEAR about training… Is TRY IT YOURSELF! No two peoples ANTHROPOMETRY is the Same. Get out of the Fu*#🙀debating society,get to the F#*🏋🏽gym and TRY IT!
Absolutely dumb. There is no correlation Louie’s geared lifters only squat wide to loosen the triple ply suit they were hence why so many “world records” are broke.
Raleigh Mason if you look at some of the older pre gear lifters aka raw of the 60’s and 70’s: Louie Simmons (yes Louie squatted wide before gear was even a thing), Larry Pacifico, don reinhoudt, ect they squatted wide and out up massive weights. Larry squatted 832 at 198/220 raw with a wide stance.
There are several studies that have concluded that if you squat wide and sit back, the posterior chain and hip muscles are more involved. With very little difference in quad involvement.
Raleigh Mason this is just an article explaining the benefits of wide stance squats. There are certain studies about the effect on wide stance squats in the works cited. www.elitefts.com/education/training/powerlifting/a-case-for-wide-squats/
Here is a link to the study on power production. They concluded when a stance was wider than shoulder width more specifically 150% of shoulder width power production was greater than Olympic squats. Weightlifters squat narrow because in the Olympic lifts it’s impossible to use a wide stance becach you pull a barbell up and it comes Down fast. In powerlifting you can squat at your own pace. journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2010/01001/Influence_Of_Stance_Width_On_Power_Production.151.aspx
![Squat Form For Your Anatomy [Perfect Depth Stance And Width]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7FF6VLej_bY/mqdefault.jpg)
I swear every time I go back and re-watch these old videos I learn something new each time.
I was just thinking the same
fr
God I love Louie Simmons .
Him :”Ok well I’m gonna take your word for it , since I have tested it .”
Louie *immediately setting shit up to prove his point * “Well here, you might as well test it .”
Thanks Louie. I injured my knee from decelerating too fast in close stance squats and couldn't break parallel without severe knee pain. I changed to wide stance and the decreased ROM allows me to go below parallel as well as take less weight off my knees and onto my hips. Squat increased 50lbs instantly and am looking forward to how the my hips will now transfer into my close stance deadlift.
Lmao
@@realsrvbhtngr why “lmao”? Louie Simmons and wsbb have changed his life and mine. Why is that funny?
If you’re going to squat wide why not deadlift wide?
Louie Simmons - only trustable source on any cross fit video just because he's a credible powerlifter - powerlifting shits on crossfit
One way to fix the flexibility issue might be to not squat in jeans....
Aha!
i can listen to louie all day
RIP Louie Simmons!!
the guy fixed the problem i had with my squat for 2 years, too narrow stance....
I wish there would be more videos of louie like this one out on youtube! :(
People speak negatively towards wide stance squats and wide bench press (in general) and say it reduces range of motion. Those same people won't hesitate to advocate the use of WIDE grip pullups in one's workout routine (even though they clearly reduce the range of motion as well). Wide stance squats work well with box squats but there are great squatters who squat narrow, medium, and wide.
4 years old but i thought I would reply. Wide grip pull ups do reduce the ROM but the main reason for doing them is to isolate the lat. A narrow grip causes most people to over use their biceps.
3 years old but i tought I would reply. Close grip pull ups enhance the stretch of the lat muscle and allows for a greater movement of the scapula. So in this case a greater stretch on the lats recruits the largest possible amount of muscle fibers to be activated.
Also, the function of the lat in its purest form is achieved with the elbow traveling in front of the body to behind you. So the wide grip pull up is an incomplete movement.
You guys know a lot about working out, for a 4 and a 3 year-old.
So much love and respect for Louie Simons.
This is gold
I didn't get it. Keeping my foot stance wide, how do I train more hips - with my feet turned outward (aka ballet dancer) or my feet straight (aka the soldier salute).
More hips if feet are straight.
Awesome video! Where can I watch the rest of it????
@mrgravyx Did u even listen to what he was saying?
He said that narrow stance would't do anything for wide stance.
But wide stance would do everything for close stance.
Rip to a fucking genius
"Can we close stance squat, yes, can we kick everyone's ass, yes" - right Louie, which is why you have so many record holders that don't use (to quote Benedikt Magnusson) self lifting helping suits.
Eli S didn’t Chris spiegel deadlift 960 no suit? And Pete bremner is at 930lbs no suit?
Mike Ruggeria squatted 975 raw while training at Westside
I'd love to get a few lessons from this man. He is truely the best in what he does bar none
The legendary teacher+
Wait it’s 2019 wtf.. where has time went!!??
2023 now
Wait, am I hearing it right? The wider I go my toes should still remain straight?
He is saying don't compensate at the feet, to make up for lack of hip strength. A person with weak hips can get into a wide stance superficially by turning the feet way out (heels will be way in). Someone with strong hips can get into a wide stance no problem with feet ~parallel, or toes just out (and obviously toes angled even further out)
RIP big man
Great video! Very informative
Can anyone do this in time? Im not real flexible so I just figured narrow stance would be best for me, after watching this im not sure.
He actually seems like a nice guy.
yes sir
Has louie simmons ever done a full depth squat in his life? asking for a friend.
nastyk57 yes, have you ever had 800+ on your back in your life? To any depth? Answer is no.
ToxicMedicine oh I’m sure you’d know
louis is 70 years old :P im sure there isnt much expected of him. he was a beast well into and past his 50s
Why is it true that a wide stance squat has the same quad activation as a narrow stance squat? Is Louie referring only to narrow stance squats of the same depth as the wide stance squats or does this include really deep narrow stance squats? It seems to me that squats with really acute knee angle would stress the quads more for a given weight than a more hip dominant squat. I might see I wide stance squat stressing the quads as much as a narrow simple because you would be using more weight. But, if you use the same weight for both squatting styles, I would expect the narrow stance squat the work the quads harder.
i think he only generally cares about squats that reach a "meet legal" depth, for his sport, equiped powerlifting, meet legal is around parallel. He wants to build a meet legal squat with good activation, not go ass to grass close stance squats, he wants his lifters to have a 60/40 ham to quad ratio.
They did a EMG study in the 90’s and after several test they concluded that there was little to no difference in quadtricep activation wide vs narrow stance. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10188748/
"The quadriceps muscles can contract more efficiently when the feet are pointing slightly outward. They should never point straight ahead. If you squat with a very wide stance, your adductors tend to assist the quads. This can result in stress to the medial collateral ligament, abnormal cartilage loading, and improper patellar tracking." - Fred Hatfield, Ph.D and 3 time World Powerlifting Champion.
So he’s saying if you squat wide you must have feet pointing out ?
@@neoanderson367 I squat wide and my coach gets me to point my feet out
Seems like the natural thing to do.
My feet also want to point outward a lot in close stance if I go ass to the grass.
With wide, I worry about over developing the inner thigh though.
Louie says to point them slightly out but mostly straight.
Note how Dr. Hatfield said "very wide stance". A wide stance is fine, just don't overdo it.
Weightlifters cant squat? I thought that was all they did?
theres squatting and theres westside barbell squatting. show me a weightlifter with the same numbers as westsiders
@@rorycreane7581 your trippin, as impressive as it is, you show me any other weightlifters on the same amount of peds as westside.
the majority of Olympic athletes are on PED's klokov the Russian team and many many more all avail of growth hormone and other drugs the difference is westside are open about their drug use.
Russell Mccune if you think weightlifters aren’t using PEDs then you really need to wake up my friend
Russell Mccune and even with peds they still have to train harder than most if not all in the world to be one of the worlds strongest gyms
Probably because you havent learned to wide stance squat right, lifting heavy is not supposed to feel comfortable. People i have met that has a correct bench press position for heavy lifting, not a single one have said that it is a "comfortable" position.
this guy is the shit
Where can i find this study? I believe a full deep squat can develop overall strength
it can, but not like a posterior chain dominant movement, such as the box squat, deadlift vars, etc.. these translate better to speed and overall athleticism.. look at the knee angle of a sprinter's front leg.. obtuse aka hamstring and butt dominant
@@fiveminutediet3772 The guy asked for a study, not a comment parroting Louie
@@garrywellman JAJAJAJAJ
@@garrywellman so Louis wrong now? okkkayyy buddy
@@Public-jm1cb Where in my comment did I state in any way that Louis is a study... sounds ridiculous
@1:05 I’ve always heard conventional builds sumo, not the other way around 🤔
Sumo does build conventional when done correctly 🙂
I love Louie but his opinion on wide building close and sump building conventional are the opposite of everything I have experienced or seen personally.
James Eldridge I disagree. My close stance box squat and only squat, builds my dead lift but doesn't build my sumo deadlift or regular squat (slightly out of shoulder width), while a sumo deadlift and wide stance box squat or free squat, builds the shit out my oly squat. View it as a block pull. It acts as a overload tool, and strengthens different muscles. Also the execution of the box squat is often not done properly. You need to sit down and flex your ass off of it. Teaches you to use more posterior chain. Maybe its not for everyone.
What is your experience? If you are going to cast doubt on a coach w/ Louie's track record you should have some real-world things to point to as justification.
definitely is for everyone :) .. nice block pull analogy which is essentially a pure hinge..
for off the floor: wider the stance, the lower to the ground(bar) the lifter can go without the knees coming forward -- aka the more the lifter can rely on a pure hinge (hammies/butt) versus bringing in some squatting mechanics (depth)
Training conventional does fuck all for my sumo, but sumo has tremendous carryover to my conventional. Before I trained sumo my conventional was 200lbs heavier than my sumo, focusing it has for the past few training cycles has added another 100lbs to my conventional.
My suggestion in regard to EVERYTHING you READ or HEAR about training…
Is TRY IT YOURSELF!
No two peoples ANTHROPOMETRY is the Same.
Get out of the Fu*#🙀debating society,get to the F#*🏋🏽gym and TRY IT!
Olympic weightlifters can't squat??
I have never gone to one gym in a pair of jeans before
Absolutely dumb. There is no correlation Louie’s geared lifters only squat wide to loosen the triple ply suit they were hence why so many “world records” are broke.
Raleigh Mason if you look at some of the older pre gear lifters aka raw of the 60’s and 70’s: Louie Simmons (yes Louie squatted wide before gear was even a thing), Larry Pacifico, don reinhoudt, ect they squatted wide and out up massive weights. Larry squatted 832 at 198/220 raw with a wide stance.
There are several studies that have concluded that if you squat wide and sit back, the posterior chain and hip muscles are more involved. With very little difference in quad involvement.
The Bearded Powerlifter Do you have the said studies or a link too these studies?
Raleigh Mason this is just an article explaining the benefits of wide stance squats. There are certain studies about the effect on wide stance squats in the works cited. www.elitefts.com/education/training/powerlifting/a-case-for-wide-squats/
Here is a link to the study on power production. They concluded when a stance was wider than shoulder width more specifically 150% of shoulder width power production was greater than Olympic squats. Weightlifters squat narrow because in the Olympic lifts it’s impossible to use a wide stance becach you pull a barbell up and it comes Down fast. In powerlifting you can squat at your own pace.
journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2010/01001/Influence_Of_Stance_Width_On_Power_Production.151.aspx
Wide squat only serve gear powerlifter,it stretch the suit.
Daniel Welch that’s not really true... not many top raw powerlifters right now use a wide stance squat (including ray Williams)
Daniel Welch mrs Bright man you know when louie say wide it mean sumo,Tell me one raw who squat sumo
Preaches wide stance squats for mobility etc, half his lifters dont even squat beneth paralell...