Matt you are a true asset to the building industry, old school talent & integrity combined with open minded forward thinking in modern materials & techniques. And the fact you are willing to share this with us, a true gentleman you are, much thanks!
Great video as always. As someone mentioned in a earlier comment, applying the siding will create many more holes in the sheathing. What's not mentioned anywhere in the video or comments is the importance of a proper rainscreen; a small air gap between the housewrap and the siding to allow any water that gets past the siding to drain down quickly, and ideally some air circulation to allow quick drying. This is even important than the choice of a (properly applied) housewrap and there is a strong consensus about the need for rainscreens among building scientist. Most houses I see built in my area (New England) these days involve fibercement nailed directly over the sheathing without any gap for the water to drain or dry. In airtight and well insulated modern homes (a good thing), that's a recipe for failure.
So little water gets past siding,that this gap,hard to achieve, is wasteful.We know what works already..really not looking g to improve that minor aspect,if it's even there!
That’s why folks who do it right use furring strips to attach your cladding or siding. You get the benefit of the air gap and avoid putting fastener holes in your material.
After years of watching the Build Show, I just used Tayvek commercial D with cap fasteners to wrap my home addition. I was concerned with leaking fasteners so I tooled a dab of window sealant over every single cap. It’s time consuming but it’s given me a little piece of mind.
Matt, I’m 70, a still active carpenter (with a lot of experience in several other trades, of course) -and have either general contracted or completely built with my own labor about 40 houses. Your videos are- hands down- the best entertaining , edited, informative, intelligent and just plain likable ones I have ever seen regarding construction, architecture and inside tips on house construction. I have great respect for what you do here. Amazing. Thank you.
Hope youre still going strong, man. Id love to sit down and have a beer with you, learn some things and hear some stories. My goal for retirement has always been 70. Keep it up old man, guys like us (though im 27 at the moment, just started my own LLC) make the world go round.
ZIP is less forgiving when it comes to install and you must use their branded (3M) tape. Consequently it's why you almost never see production builders use it. Production builders want the cheapest code min OSB and housewrap they can get. Also the nailing schedule for ZIP-R is just crazy because the interior facing foam causes it to lose racking resistance
Absolutely love that you address "Ad Issues" that happen on your videos. Shows how much you care about your followers and their leaning of the products you use.
It is repugnant to see industry sponsored studies; DuPont, I believe, like many other industry sponsored studies will lie to our faces; they really undermine our intelligence and trust. We need to always ask ourselves who is sponsoring a particular study and if there is a conflict of interest; We should not have the airplane builders tell us the airplane is safe just because they say so. Or pharmaceutical company test their own drugs and claim they are safe an effective without a truthful independent study. This is another great episode by Matt. Thanks.
The zip tape is awesome. One guy used it to patch rust holes on his truck and it's still stuck fast after years. Used it to patch ripped pants one day on the job. Even after working the whole day and sending it through the washer it still held up
Thanks Matt! Because of your videos, I just met with a rep from Huber this week! I actually mentioned your videos to the rep when he asked where I was seeing this product being used. Thanks for clearing up this issue. I have seen the attack adds lately and was beginning to feel uncertain about using the zip system. I have been building for about 13 years and your videos have changed the way I view my responsibility as a builder. Keep up the great work sir!
I could be wrong, but I think the only issue people are coming up against is that they aren't filling the nail divots. If instally right, it looks like a great product
I’ve never used zip but been curious about the differences since the crew I run with uses tyvec. I feel like I saw a lot of negative tyvec videos but seeing this makes me realize that it is a somewhat level playing field. Thanks for the video. This really helped split the differences for me.
I love your content and completely agree the Tyvek lab test was obviously unfair. That said, I think you could stand to specifically call out your Huber sponsorship once or twice during this video. Not saying you aren't upfront about it, as it's always in the description. Just saying some extra emphasis would lend even more credibility to what is clearly a solid argument.
@@buildshow Hey Matt, would be more honest to clearly state you are endorsed by Huber in the beginning of your ad and not until the last 7 seconds. Couple of points, that test you mention was done at Construction Consulting Labs in Carrollton, TX. They’ve been in business since the 70s. Real testing facility, real test. Website: www.sunited.com. Also, the water column test, definitely a cap staple within the column installed with DuPont™ Tyvek®. You can see it at the 1:18 mark here: th-cam.com/video/3paeg45EX40/w-d-xo.html. DuPont always engages in proper testing. As we can all agree, products are not better on their own, they are better working with a system of materials. Installation is key.
Matt, I am really surprised you do not have more subscribers. Your videos are high quality with top notch information. I have been in the industry on and off my whole life around the nation and your advise has always been sound. You final product (homes) is one of perfection.
I just came from watching This old house and they the Zip product on a Cape Cod house. Tom Silva addressed the issue about the nails going to far. And he demonstrated how they use the liquid flashing to the holes. Great video explaining the two products
As a builder, carpenter, and framer for over 30 years, I see that most people are standing the wall sheating in the vertical direction instead of the horizontal position. 6:24. No one sheats a floor or a roof in this direction because the strength axis of ply and osb is perpendicular to the framing members. A wall is both stronger laterally, winds shear wise, and earth quake wise when the walls are sheathed with the plywood laid horizontally and staggered, not dissimilar to brick bonding. It should also be laid in a way that ties in floors and walls together. No 1 foot strip at floor/rim section. Plus, the plywood should definitely have a 1/8 inch gap between the horizontal rows for expansion. When you stand them up on a long wall, you run the chance of running out of stud, or if laid tight, having a couple of buckles at some point in the plywood. Either way, laying sheets horizontally on the wall is more correct and a far superior than the other way around.
I think they are in areas without any earthquakes so they are not as concerned about lateral movement. I agree with you 100% best practice is horizontal and staggered. Taping may be more difficult, but you'll have a much stronger frame.
OSB and zip sheathing can be made with the strength axis in either direction. For intended vertical wall panels, the strength axis is across the short 4' side.
I am currently building my own house. I will be running 9’ sheets of Zip vertically. It will tie my 8’ walls very securely to the rim boards. Also the tape seems will all be vertical with the exception of the top and bottom. With no horizontal seams I feel like there will be less chance of water leaking into the wall face. A horizontal failure in the tape could result in a funnel directing water into the wall. I am sure that the horizontal wall insulation is actually stronger but in my hot humid often wet area of the country I am more concerned with the least chance of water infiltration. I have 2x6” walls and every window and door has at least 1 extra stud on each side. 2x12” floor joists with only a 7.5’ span. You could probably land a helicopter on it lol. Terry
In Canada, almost all that I see being used is Tyvek, and they just staple it on. I have yet to see any Zip Systems in Edmonton, and I hope to secure a job that will allow me to do it and start using such a fantastic system. I started my own company a year ago and have yet to land a large client, but your videos have so far taught me more than my apprenticeship training ever had. I am always spreading the word about these tips and tricks and products to my colleagues, and they are just as astounded as I am as to why we aren't using them. I recently renovated a house for a friend and added some exterior insulation to it and the difference in that thermal bridging is just amazing. I can go into the house when it is plus 32 degrees celsius or 98 for you, and the house is cold without an air conditioner. And I thought it was funny because in your video recently, I think, you say that northern parts of the US require exterior insulation on top of the interior. In Canada, we don't require exterior insulation at all. I feel like our zero degrees weather would be much more manageable with exterior insulation. I appreciate your hard work and sharing the lessons that you've learned along the way. I hope to meet you one day and talk more in-depth about really anything haha. Keep it up!
Well Down from you, but Up here in Wisconsin, we don't require exterior insulation at all here too.. I think the stuff I do see when required seems to be mostly blue and sometimes pink styrofoam house sheet... I guess that is good but it kinda bugs me to see this stuff, but I can't put my finger on why...
@@romanslavo1 naa.. I don't care about the environment that much.. I would rather use fiberglass insulation in the walls of my house because it itches if you touch it.. but I could not care if gets recycled, thrown into the dump, or set on fire behind a gas station as long as I never have to deal with it again. Same goes for styrofoam, if it killing me.. I don't care.
Same here, in Ontario. I don't see Zip available anywhere, outside of a special order. Tyvek house wrap is the standard. Overpriced tape only on the seams is code, nothing on the million staple penetrations or the damage made by the hammer staplers. That being said, I have read that the Zip tape only has a 25-year life expectancy and even the OSB with laminated zip insulation can become delaminated after the same time frame. They claim the Tyvek wrap and tape exceeds 50 years. Not my claims btw, just found in my research. The zip system seems to make sense to me and the insulation laminated to the OSB would help eliminate a step if requiring another layer of insulation outside of the frame. But haven't been able to make a cost comparison since it's not easily available here, in my neck of the woods.
For what it's worth I've not seen any of those ads before your videos. Also, your channel has led me to learn about building science including the Building Science Podcast where I can get even MORE information. Keep up the good work my man, I hope to own a home that would make you proud!
Zip R-Sheathing (R6 or R9) with fluid applied for all the seams and nail heads would be the best option in my opinion. Wish I built my new house with that system.
The insulation is on the inside of the panel and it gives a little when nailed so a lot of care is needed. when used on a shear wall my engineer recommends against it. And lets face it every exterior wall is a shear wall nowadays with so many windows. I wish its a product I can use. But not according to my engineer! Maybe my windload is just too high?
@@clandry1234 let in braces are old school! real shear panels are much much stronger. I dont think the cost of adding let in bracing (even if my engineer lets me) just so that I can use zip-R is worth it compared to just do plywood+exterior XPS for a much stronger wall.
@@lelenbates3367 unfortunately t studs are still not as readily available - I can't just pick them up in the lumber yard. It's all custom ordering. Difficult to even get accurate pricing info in CO. I guess you can plan to order more than you need to reduce the risks of delays etc. Still not very convenient.
Matt, Thank you for the video very helpful. I'm still preaching for guys around here to watch your video.A lot builder's around here think the tyvek is a complete water proof system. Thanks again keep the video's coming please!
@@buildshow TH-cam needs a solid step by step rainscreen installation video. I know you have a few that touch on the topic, but there's very little professional information on rainscreen installation regarding placement near/under moldings, trims, doors, windows etc
And proper drip-caps above doors/windows. 90% of the time I see leaks it's due to poor flashing. Anyone can buy a Tapco...not everyone knows how to bend and install well 😁
I agree also, with rainscreen. But it still dosnt stop moisture from getting in thru the penetrations in the paper. Wood shingles are the best siding hands down. Triple coverage. Zip system is trash either way. People putting up vinyl siding directly over zip shld loose their lic to build
@@jeepsuc99 why? From what I have seen there is little issue if the siding is properly installed. Now if your talking illegals as siding jockeys, slopping work on it yes you might have issues. Watched a house that lost 80% of the vinyl siding in tornado, had Zip R sheeting. And even in driving rain had no issues with water intrusion. Also house was built to be air tight so what little moisture did intrude it was handled by airflow and air management on the INSIDE. Guys house AFTER tornado gained 1.23% humidity but went back to normal in less than 24 hrs. Figure with Zip on roof, they had VERY minor water as roof came off, same as siding. But owner got on roof, used Zip Flash on every nail holes and nail much same way builder did. At least on part with out ice and rain shield. Each product, if installed properly works ok. I have actually seen more water issues with Tyvek from poor install practices than Zip /Zip R. And I have been researching many products for my soon to be built pole barn garage with second floor apartment. One of the serious issues I have seen in past was OSB has no ability to resist water, Zip/Zip R does.
A great, clear and concise analysis of "pseudo-scientific" testing of competing vapor barrier products. You have a great channel with useful information and a high level of professional integrity.
Another great one. Thank you. At 6:28, the zipped house shows vertical panels. Shouldn't they be rotated 90 degrees for greater shear strength like plywood?
Tyvek dry rots. Took siding off a renovation and the Tyvek was falling apart. On another job, a house built in 1947 with wood siding, the siding was starting to dry rot. after the siding was off the tar paper was 100% secure and sound, keeping the moisture out of the wall. AMAZING. I recently put Hardie Board on my own house, so I put 4 coats of exterior enamel on both sides of the siding to seal it, then on install used 45ln tarpaper as a moisture barrier, then caulked the back edges and overlap of the Hardie board to seal it up. I't been on the house now for 12 years and no cracks anywhere. Chris Callaway, TECS Insulation, Richland Hills TX
I've built one house with zip, and was at first skeptical. It seemed tedious and extra sometimes, but I think if I build my own house in the future I'll use Zip, unless technology has surpassed it. We used Sikaflex in sausage guns on the over penetrations which seems bulletproof, and I dont think there's a better system than Zip if you install it correctly.
I renovate and rehab houses in Philadelphia and often remove incredibly old facades to reveal what has to be at least 75 year old tar paper that is in perfect condition and still functioning as it should with no failures. I sometimes wonder why we don’t still use such a simple and effective material and application (I will still use it in situations where I am replicating the previous construction for historical purposes). I would love to see a comparison of traditional tar paper to the new materials to see how it stacks up against the modern applications. Thx for the great video, as usual.
Here is what I will tell you about either Tyvek or Zip. I have used them both and after living in both homes for 10+ years I could not tell the difference between one vs. the other and I have never saw either product after is was covered again. So one vs. the other can also have to do with where your building. Now, having said that. First of all; a properly installed product either one, Tyvek or Zip is the foundation to success with either product. Then what are you putting over top for your exterior finish? Masonry/brick or stone, Wood, Vinyl/Alumni, Cement Siding, Stucco. Regardless of the product, making sure the exterior product is properly installed, especially around opening like doors, windows and vents, outlets. If you are going to see water penetration it will be at one of these areas. So proper “sill flashing” and of drip edges, proper use of quality caulking around windows and doors will make a very big difference. Absolute regardless of house wrap you use.............
It’s almost as if one were really concerned about water and air (and all the fasteners from the siding), one would use regular osb, or plywood, then add a grace type ice and water shield product to the entire thing instead. $$$
i saw these ads before his videos, searched “zip system cons,” and found another of his videos addressing & debunking those exact ads. i love how this little rabbit hole went full circle lmao
@@buildshow you should do a collab video with Matt from OffTheRanch youtube channel th-cam.com/video/LWV4yjvskgk/w-d-xo.html&t you are both in the Austin/San Antonio Texas Area! He's currently purchased a project that he could most definitely use your insight.
Love your videos but since your a southern builder the techniques don’t mean much to northeast builders. Can anyone recommend a TH-cam channel that is as good for northeast builders?
Ha! I just finished watching your video and that Tyvek ad came up. I had never heard of ZIP until watching your videos. Everyone in California uses Tyvek. Now I'm in Utah, and I've seen both.
With mandatory exterior foam [we do 2" taped] and tyvek , you have a pretty strong assembly. Water will have to penetrate cladding, foam, tyvek, osb to do some damage.... I think both systems can work, if details are taken care of. Kudos for exposing deceptive claims.
I like using only INSULATED zips for only one reason: Insulated Zip sheathing removes thermal bridging between studs. The area of the typically framed wall 8' long by 8' high built 16.oc will have 15% of its area covered with studs that have Rvalue of 2.2. You can put any type of insulation between studs, foam or fiber glass , but 15% of the wall still will be cold because of the studs. Insulated Zip Sheathing removes thermal bridging, thus saving you 15% of energy. Plus it gives additional R9 from the outside. But Zip tape is very expensive. And it is cheaper to put Tyvek over Zip system than using Zip tape. Also, my opinion that it is almost impossible to do flashing above the window with the zip tape. Think about it: water gets on the sheathing and drains down between the tape and the sheathing above the window. If you use Tyvek over Zip system you will be able to flash windows properly. I think that Zip uninsulated sheathing is worse than regular OSB with Tyvek
You're not wrong, but most of my heat load is from the ceiling and fenestrations, not thermal conductance via studs. The extra R-value on the sheathing is something to be appreciated with something like LEED energy certified homes, in which Zip's expensive tape is going to come in handy on blower door tests anyway.
Great video! Speaking for myself, DuPont shot itself in the foot with that bogus, slanted demo. Any doubts I had about ZIP are gone. I'll never use house wrap again.
Advantech or plywood with fluid applied STPE WRB being the best option? It doesn't matter if the leaks are slow on either tyvek or zip. OSB is terrible as a building product because with either one it'll turn to mush over time.
@@SKANK_HUNT49 It is not the cheap labor that is the problem. It is some builders that try to cut corners and lack of training & knowledge of the product that is the problem.
@@ShadowxxPanda I agree it is the builders. Where they cut Corners is hiring illegals so they can save a buck. Believe me I am the Carpenter but gets cold when no one else can figure it out
I have seem many times an osb house wrapped and after being exposed to a rain or high humidity you can run your hand over the house wrap and you can feel the osb is absorbing moisture and surface swelling .
Now that Texas experienced freezing temps, you may want to inspect their tapes again in the future to see if the temps made them brittle or deteriorate with (1-time) extreme temp differentiations.
I've used the Zip Flashing when I resided my trailer, and when it has had an hour or so do bond to the surface, you can pull it off but only with some of the material that it is bonded to. The key is using a squeegee type piece of hard rubber or roller. I used it around all my doors and windows after seeing Kyle from RR Buildings use it on some of his builds, before going to the Weather Logic system. Just thought I would throw in my personal experience with using the Zip Flashing. I'll use it from now on when I'm trying to weather proof something!
A question at the end. I am not familiar with the Zip system but do know a bit about Tyvek. Around the 6:10 mark you mention that the Zip is both a water barrier and air barrier. You do not say that it is a vapor barrier but if people believe it to be a vapor barrier, at least for Tyvek, I know that it is not a vapor barrier nor is it intended to be. I know many people that do believe Tyvek is a vapor barrier, when it is intended to be a wind (air) barrier, as well as a (secondary) water barrier, for any water that would get by whatever cladding has been used. My understanding of vapor barriers has always been to install it on the "warm" side of the wall, which for most houses except for the deep south of the US, the vapor barrier goes on the inside of the wall. Having a vapor barrier on the outside and then installing a vapor barrier on the inside also would be a big no-no. So as stated at the outset, not knowing the Zip system, your comment about it being a barrier for air and water, this does not make it a vapor barrier....correct?
Zip sheathing is great but as a professional waterproofer that has done millions of square feet of waterproofing with just about every product, it is way easier and creates a full seal to use plain sheathing with something like Sonneborne 700 and 700b fluid applied that can be rolled on and even covers the taped seams and anyone can apply it easily just make sure to buy heavy duty roller frames. I'm a professional waterproofer and it's what I used on my own home. Fluid applied will always beat any other since it creates a FULL envelope covering every scratch, nail, and joint and seam.
What's the point of applying a fluid over the fasteners if you're just going to come back later and make new holes with siding or other exterior fasteners? How are leaks mitigated there?
Overdriven nails are a concern. Normal installation does not leak. You're going to come back and put the same holes in Tyvek too, but at least with Zip you don't get moisture buildup behind the barrier.
@@matt_metcalf tyvek is a breathable membrane, anything that gets behind it will dry out, it also contains micro ribs to guide any condensation down and out, which is why you use it instead of just plastic sheeting.
@@EitriBrokkrI believe the ribs are for moisture on the exterior side of the tyvek (the space between foam and the tyvek). If you're getting water behind your air/weather barrier then it's not doing it's job, right?
I would like to thank you both for that video. I was very sceptical about Zip Systems because of the competitors video. Thanks for setting the record straight.
The only problem with the zip system is when they add rigid insulation, which is sandwich between the framing and sheeting. I think it compramizes sheer strength by allowing a soft region to where the nail or fastener can bend or move.
@@natemartinez4595 Can you explain why you say it doesn't? It seems to me and Herboth... that the sheet of Zip R hanging out an inch will certainly not be as rigid as a sheet nailed directly to the framing. I'm getting ready to choose between ZipR and using spray foam instead.
Zip system & done! Wanna get really detailed & eliminate all doubt, cut little pieces & cover the nails! Also, I seen a crew using 2" decking staples & the over driven break in the Zip barrier was less evasive than gun nails!
Aaron Norris ... with an ad paid for by his sponsor Huber, which makes the Zip products the Tyvek ad trashed. I have no opinion which as to which ad was less accurate, but at least Tyvek's was honest about the fact that it was a paid ad. Another poster has also pointed out that the testing in the Tyvek ad was done at an independent lab, while the testing in this ad was done by Huber and its paid supporter, Mr. Rissinger. Either product can be used to make a good wall. Neither ad should be taken as gospel.
Has anybody ever thought on how the original water proofing was done way back in the 1970s? They spray it with a marine grade polymer plastic and use a silicone-silicon caulking that can last like a stone! What happened to these time-tested and time-proven technology?
darthvader5300 I'm pretty sure roofing felt (aka tar paper) and Class D building paper predate that. Properly applied, they keep out liquid water while letting water vapor pass through to dry out any water that gets into the wall. I've never actually seen what you describe, but it sounds vapor-impermeable, which would block drying to the outside. That MIGHT have worked in an uninsulated wall with air blowing freely through it, but on a modern insulated wall, and especially one built with an interior air barrier, that doesn't leave much of a way for the sheathing to dry. A little water always gets into walls. You either give it a way to evaporate, or you rip down the wall later to remediate the mold.
@@monsterrodvonhugen "with an ad paid for by his sponsor Huber" Huber is only one sponsor among 6. "done by Huber and its paid supporter, Mr. Rissinger." Huber is a sponsor, so Matt is not a paid supporter. "at least Tyvek's was honest about the fact that it was a paid ad." The video above was not an ad, and Matt listed the sponsors. You've not shown him to be dishonest. "Tyvek ad was done at an independent lab, while the testing in this ad was done by Huber" The lab location has no bearing on how good the test is. As Matt showed, the testing done in the ad that he was addressing was a poorly designed test. If you can show that the test in this video was actually poorly designed, then you have a point. "Neither ad" Only one was an ad, the other is a part of an ongoing series. It seems to me that you are conflating having a formed opinion based on experience with being a paid shill.
Matt this is PRE siding. The siders show up and drive 200x the fasteners right through either product. Sometimes missing the framing and pulling the nail. Hole, right through the "watertight" system. This is a good discussion but has to include the finished product. I wanna see the shooting range test to simulate the Detroit abandoned suburbs to see if zip or tyvek wins.
I installed zip sheathing with open cell foam on my passiveHaus. The fasteners with the foam became a significant water wicking issue. We had several stud bays that became very moist damp with water. We ended up having to install closed cell in the rest of the house and going back over each nail hole with the zip liquid flashing. I reached out to Huber about this issue. These product issues should be more well known.
The water was probably from interior moisture migrating through the open cell foam and being stopped by the impermeable zip panel. If the fasteners were all in the studs as they should be they could not leak into the foam.
Both systems are ostensibly still going to have siding applied, almost always nailed through, so even if you diligently caulk every single “overdriven nail“ or staple, as soon as you nail on your siding you’re going to create new penetrations! It seems that there is absolutely no way to keep all water from ever penetrating walls, so I guess the best solution is to ensure that the walls can dry out. Right?
I have the Zip system on my house. Build it 6 years ago. Has great and i have been impressed. I have old piece of zip board that i have been using out side around here since house was build and it still is in good shape considering rain, snow. Sun etc. I have leak at my windows on the house. The key is to not tape the bottom of the windows. 6 years ago we where to that You should tape the bottoms. So that I see has now changed. We pulled the siding off and cut the zip tape from the bottoms of the windows.. no more leaks. And yes it still was stuck like glue.. Great system. Will use again
You make great points here Matt. There does seem to be a bit of a smear campaign happening and I appreciate the clarity you are bringing to the discussion. The one thing I really like about the zip system is UV and wind defense for projects sitting exposed for several months during construction. The zip system is a clear winner here, add in the labor savings of waterproofing with sheathing and the conversation becomes interesting. Both systems have a place and time will tell but the fact is simple, progress happens. Thanks for providing solid info. Keep up the good work.
This is my first time seeing this video. And oddly enough, the first time seeing the attack add you mention as well. It just makes them seem desperate.
Well one thing to remember when buying a house. If the builders put up stuco, or cladding right after it rained. If the wrap still allowed leaking behind allow it to dry before getting it sealed from water.
I built my house about 26 years ago and used Tyvek as a house wrap. A short time later I added a 3 season room but lacking Tyvek I used good old fashioned 15lb tar paper. I can tell you, without question, that tar paper works a million times better at preventing water intrusion. I have no experience with the zip system but if I could do it all over again I would never, ever use Tyvek. Tyvek has zero sealing properties. Drive a nail or screw into it and you have hole. I recently stripped my siding off and where I had Tyvek there was water staining and rot. Where I had tar paper the wood looked brand new. DuPont has done a great job marketing Tyvek but I would advise anyone building a new home to stay far, far away from it and go with old fashioned tar paper.
Thanks. I agree our old methods are so much better, The recent rash of tornadoes in the Midwest the old houses were still standing and all the new houses were wiped out. I'm surprised the weather channel was even aloud to state that. I've been in construction for about 40 years and everything has gone down hill massively. Of course it's not just construction.
Over drive a nail in the zip system and you also have a hole, and often one that you're not aware of. ZIP has done almost a good of a job of marketing as DuPont has done. If installed correctly, both are great. I just don't think ZIP is 50-80% better which is the cost difference.
@@Zimbob2424 That's because it's all about speed and cutting costs. Time is money and the guys on the site are pushed to finish everything as quickly as possible guaranteeing short cuts are taken. I'm not against new ideas but too many of these products are designed to cut costs either by allowing the use of cheaper materials, speeding up installation or both. Problem is that that issues won't surface for about 15 years and then it's too late.
@@wtjarrard I haven't used the Zip system but it seems it's taken off like wild fire. I agree with you, put a hole in the coating and you are left with exposed OSB which doesn't do well with water. The manufacturer has very specific installation instructions that if followed to a tee probably results in a good product. The problem is that I've never been on a site where that happens either due to mistakes, oversites or because of cutting corners. I'm not a builder but my brother is and I've worked with him on quite a few houses. Those that we've opened up that have plank or plywood walls covered in felt paper always seem to look brand new. Those with house wrap, not so much.
@@richmac918 Most of the guys I know are NOT in a rush, I was referring to the materials and codes. But investors are like that, I mostly work for home owners
Apparently, this is what a company does when they feel that there is a superior produce to their own. Too bad Tyvek couldn't do a more fair and objective test to compare a competitions product with their own. They probably could have learned something, and improved the quality of their own product. As it is, thanks to your objective comparison, Tyvek seems to me to be anything but truthful, or fair, and I would avoid their products at all costs. Even though you did say that both products were good. To me, integrity also plays a roll in what companies I support. I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos, am subscribed, and feel I am gaining some very insightful and useful knowledge that I may be able to apply to my own home build one day. Thanks for posting, and keep up that great work!
I appreciate your analytical review of this common back and forth debate. Me 30 year contractor New England. I'm pro typar anti zip sidewall... 5/8 zip roof sheathing is fine. Reasons: As a much younger carpenter I was strapping a large garage on a freshly poured and finished floor in July. The floor was obviously sweating and basically drenched. The guys on the outside were dropping all sorts of things but one was scraps of typar (tyvek more common at the time). When I picked up at the end of the day the scraps of tvek/typar with the lettering up left completely dry patches on the sweaty concrete floor...the pieces with the letters down did nothing. This proved to me that the oneway system of tyvek/typar actually does move moistures away. I believe matts demonstration is flawed as he acknowledged. The test used cap fasteners is asking for problems (also they did not tape the seams off on the test panel..thats a big omission in my view) . I hammer-tack staples and tyvek/typar tape all seams, corners, and skirts over CDX which is vastly superior (in my opinon to OSB anything). That is a complete moisture wicking system over a superior wall sheathing sheet good. We use Blueskin by the beach FYI. Problems with Zip wall. I have seen 3 failures on less than 3 year old new constructions. All at the lower corners of new construction windows and doors. The doors and windows were prepped correctly with window tape offs and exterior doors with lead pans (when lead was cheap) . The failures occurred just off the taped edges. I'm not sure why but this enough to push me back to CDX and house wrap taped off correctly. The cost to zip vs. labor is similar especially if you factor in over driving nails which then requires zip tape patches or rubber sparkle... Just wrap it wit typar..Proven, effective, efficient.....PS zip R-sheathing is effective but we still typar it,
Here’s the million dollar question regardless of the house wrap how is the cladding attached to the sheathing? It has to be a mechanical fastener and a penetration so how do you deal with that?
There are some wraps, peel n sticks, and fluid applied that claim they are 'self sealing' around fasteners. I've never personally trusted nor tested it but I'd love to see someone do it.
How long has the Zip system been in use for? Have there been any of the original houses built with that system been remodeled and the tapes found been inspect for condition over the long term? I like the benefits these new technologies offer over the old school systems, but I do worry that if they do start to leak in 20 or 30 years they end up trapping moisture behind them and it'd not be a pretty sight.
I completely resheathed my house with zip, step flashed every corner, and used staples for fastening. Outside siding is cedar cladding all the way. All joints were air sealed from the inside. I want to know where I get ruined here. Tell me where I screwed up.
If you've designed the wall assembly correctly with only 1 vapor barrier (ZIP) then any moisture that gets through will dry to the interior if you condition your house. I could foresee issues of water gets into the OSB and can't escape though
I recently installed zip R 1/2" on a small project...seems it holds moisture between the osb and the foam. Moisture tests at 25%+ in spots. Also the foam on seams compresses more than in the field causing more issues siding and getting rippling down the walls.
Retired builder, 50+ in the field. Tyvek is just about useless unless you can apply it without nails and staples. I’m no Luddite I love new products and systems. Over decades of home building I’ve seen new products, the next new thing that will change the game, come and go, aluminum siding comes to mind. So many flash in the pans. Tyvek will eventually fall completely out of favor, the only reason it’s still around is because the industry in general has so much invested in it, every lumber yard and supply Co. has its own logo printed house rap, instant billboards that users pay for, but that’s not the only reason. I could go on for pages. Zip was an immediate game changer and has proved itself. Another innovation that might be as game changing is ice and water shield membrane, I first started noticing it in the mid 80s and now a modern roofer wouldn’t know how to start a roof without it. Things that work perfectly and do the advertised job right out of the box with absolutely no problems stick around. Zip works as advertised, Tyvek dose not work as advertised unless you jump through a hundred hoops of fire to make it almost live up to its expectations. Zip will be around for a long long time, Tyvek is fading away and I say good riddance.
It's hard to tell from the video but I see only couple fasteners on Zip panels (1:52) and they seem to be perfectly driven into the panels which is impossible to do on a job site when using a nail gun. Both systems leak if installed in normal conditions unless the fasteners are taped over. Leaking is not that significant though and rain-screen should help drying and prevent any water damage to the structure.
Matt, the question I’ve always had with any system is how do you handle all of the holes created by staples from stucco lathe or nails from siding? Seems like someone could spend all the time and money to install a good system then ruin it by driving thousands of nails and staples through it. How do you handle that if there is no budget for a rainscreen?
great point! nobody is talking about that....at the end of the day the zip is way over priced for particle board that has been simply painted. before covid they were 10$ a sheet at home depot now they are 30$
@@welewisiii Just finished my first project with Blueskin VP100 and loved it. A bit more expensive than Tyvek but wayyy better. Framer charged a little extra to install. Little bit of a learning curve for them but they did a really good job. Not that hard to install actually.
@@welewisiii Yeah here in southeast Texas Blueskin hasn’t really broken into the market much at all. I never see it on houses, because I don’t think many builders here know about it. I think only a handful of builders use it and that’s a shame. It’s a great product! A small portion of people here use Zip but most use OSB with Tyvek. Do you prefer the method of priming all of the plywood before applying Blueskin or do you just rely on the adhesive alone on the back of the Blueskin?
Plywood with Prosoco’s system beats zip hands down. Better perm rating and seals around fasteners that are added from siding or cladding. The zip system is just osb that is sprayed and perforated on the outside layer. OSB takes longer to dry out and it’s not very permeable.
Anytime I get playing around with a big sail the wind always gusts! There is actually a new ad that plays now. These false ads have caused me to loose my respect for both Dupont and traditional house wraps. Why would they have to stoop so low if they had a product that was even comparable? 1)Early in the commercial, they claim that the crew installed both systems according to the manufacturer's specs. Later they say that BOTH crews have experience in installing the before-mentioned products. What they failed to mention is how much experience each crew had. 2) They claim that Zip requires a 1/8" gap. All sheathing requires an 1/8" gap for expansion and contraction purposes. At the end they say "Don't fall for unproven claims." Ok, I won't use their wrap on my house!
If you put the tyvek on the walls while they are lying on the floor deck before lifting the wall then u dont need to go back with a 10' roll on a ladder. Work smarter not harder 🤔
@@dleblanc6646 came to say the same thing. Tyvex before you stand the wall then tyvex the gable before you flip it up. leave a 2 foot overhang , Tyvex tape the seam. Good to go.
If I had to choose between the two, I would choose ZIP. Simple because the waterproof layer is permanently bonded to the sheathing whereas with Tyvek the separate waterproof layer has to be attached to the sheathing using additional fasteners. This creates a gap that water, air, insects, animals, etc can penetrate.
Too funny.....tyvek attack ad at the end of your video.....however they do make several valid points, but of course any publication that is “ one sided” , also falls under the definition of propaganda. In my experience , the budget is what determines which system is used; with Tyvek being the more affordable option.
A full roll of tyvek can be rough but it's manageable an if you don't need the full length say for gables or whatever u cut the while roll in half an always used a slap stapler if they using nail caps they just slowing themselves down can do a wall in about ten min..I only used cap nails if I put a foam type barrier over the tyvek/ wrap product
Your videos always make good points in both directions. I’ve used both systems I found the tie vac paper easier quicker and more cost-effective as well. I was taught from the beginning to always seal those gaskets with Tyvek tape not sure if anyone else does that or not?
That soak test with the vacuum behind the wall is intended to accelerate the leaking process enough to actually measure it. Otherwise, you're stuck with capillary action behind the fasteners, which goes very slowly. I don't dwell too much on either system. -- The appeal of Zip is effectively paint. We paint fences/facias and they last outside just fine. If you saturate OSB with spar urethane, you can leave it underwater. -- The appeal of Tyvek is ventilation. If it rains one day only to be hot and dry 2 days later, then the heat/low humidity will dry out any tiny bit of moisture that makes it into the siding, skipping the painting process. -- I like zip instead of Tyvek because it's not unreasonable to think that bugs can get under the Tyvek paper.
@@Krunch2020 You're right. Plus, when you attach stuff on top of it, there's no seal. The moral of the story is, the cladding is our primary defense against moisture. The other moral of the story is, when you talk to desert dwellers like me about moisture issues, our perspective will be skewed.
This is never addressed. Like why use the expensive nails for tyvec if you are going to pound in thousands of plain old nails through it when hanging siding???
Back in the day we used #15 felt to help protect the boxing. The siding, caulking, and paint were the first line of defense in keeping moisture out; and effective if installed correctly. When Tyvek was introduced it was promoted as a wind barrier. The zip board was promoted as a “fast” alternative to house wrap. In the current climate of modern building I view this argument as redundant. Once any surface is penetrated with Fastners for siding and holes are introduced the static condition is compromised. Good craftsmanship goes a long way in insuring a well built home. What I have found out in my area is this. A very high percentage of builders and carpenters talk about subjects like these, and they can’t even read a framing square. Ask them to build a complete home from a stack of lumber, and they’re lost. Yet they give advice like this.
Matt, could you go over the structural aspects of Zip-R. I have heard, and also contemplated myself that you loose strength against twisting and racking due to the soft foam that the fastener must travel through between one material to another. Seems like it would allow the fasteners to bend easier. Thanks
@@boobacockaa Tyvek got its reputation and hoopla based on lab tests. You cover a glass of water with a Tyvek sheet, band around the rim, invert glass, and Voila, no water drips out. Problem is, that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in real world usage and performance. EVERY fastener PUNCHES a hole in what is basically a rigid material (yes, it rolls up, but that is because it is thin; try stretching to test flexibility), and that material cannot contract or squeeze back around the body of the fastener to seal around it. In actual use, you have applied a perforated scrim over the sheathing, with consequent massive air leakage in the finished assembly. And, any moisture that gets behind the siding has a clear wicking path, along the fastener, to travel back into the warmer environment on the sheathing (and it does). Tyvek is used by cheap and greedy (mostly production) builders to demonstrate their concern for "Green" and "Quality". They know most consumers are clueless, and this is a money-maker for them (and a boon for the re-builders down the line). At this point in my 49 year building career, I will ONLY use a fully adhered, SELF-SEALING membrane over 100% of surfaces. And I sleep well at night.
@@leestevens446 you seem to know what you're talking about and I was wondering what you would recommend. I live in Michigan and we are in climate zone 5 if that matters. I was going to use 5/8 plywood sheathing, 2" foam board insulation (deciding on which one is a whole different question), then Typar house wrap (Typar actually recommends using it over the foam and not between the sheathing and foam), then vinyl siding. Zip sheathing (or similar) with insulation already attached is also an option. After watching this video and reading your comment I now have my doubts on either system. What would you recommend? Thanks for your time.
We're all so sick of deliberately staged ads like this. Each system and each product has it's advantages.... No need to manufacture a situation (like comparing an overdriven fastener to not any fastener but NO fastener penetration). Just be honest.
volvo09 Please don't speak for everyone without consulting everyone! I, for one, appreciate a video like this which demonstrates the performance of various building products so I can properly evaluate which product I choose to use.
@@mattbrew11 While I don't disagree that these videos are similar to infomercials they provide relevant information and gives a person a basis for further research. Some people who think they are smarter than others prefer to live life in an information bubble. Whereas I prefer to review as much information on a given subject as is available so I can evaluate the value and relevance of the information and then make an informed decision!
I've been framing for 42 years, I've several homes where tyvex completely fails, The only paper I've seen that can stand the test of time, is the black roofing type paper I'd never use tyvex on my own house
For someone who's framed for 42 years, you don't seem to know much. The wrap is not "Tyvex" it is "Tyvek" made by Dupont and that black roof type paper is called "felt".
@@willpelton1619 Zip system comes also with insulated backing options... 1/2" up to 2" I have used. The stuff is such a pain and if using 2" insulation version, now your sheeting nails are not optimally set into the framing.
Keep in mind there will be finished siding over either product which would keep most of the driven moisture out anyway. Price to the customer (installation & materials) is usually the deciding factor on which we use.
My understanding is that Tyvek allows the wall assembly to dry to the outside, does the zip system allow this too or does it trap moisture in the wall cavity?
Exactly my concern. Here in the hot humid south it is especially important. Matt is Zip truely vapor permeable? There is a lot talk about this. Once you use a fluid applied seal over the nail holes and seams how vapor permeable is Zip? I feel a vapor test needs to be done next episode!! Thanks Matt love the BuuuILD show!
Tyvek is loosely stapled to wood, Zip is called a system because it has 3 components that are bonded directly to one another: wood, rigid foam, and the green sheeting. To try and compare the 2 you would have to glue foam to wood then glue Tyvek to the foam. Foam needs to be sealed to protect it from any moisture penetration which is why the green cloth is bonded to the foam rather than being loosely stapled (same reason for it being bonded to the wood to prevent water getting behind the foam.) Some builders use Tyvek over rigid foam but either the foam has a face on it to protect against moisture or the builder applies a rolled/sprayed on moisture barrier before stapling the Tyvek on. Zip is superior in a scenario where you want rigid foam on the outside of the home. It combines 3 products into 1 saving time for builders.
Matt you are a true asset to the building industry, old school talent & integrity combined with open minded forward thinking in modern materials & techniques. And the fact you are willing to share this with us, a true gentleman you are, much thanks!
Great video as always. As someone mentioned in a earlier comment, applying the siding will create many more holes in the sheathing. What's not mentioned anywhere in the video or comments is the importance of a proper rainscreen; a small air gap between the housewrap and the siding to allow any water that gets past the siding to drain down quickly, and ideally some air circulation to allow quick drying. This is even important than the choice of a (properly applied) housewrap and there is a strong consensus about the need for rainscreens among building scientist.
Most houses I see built in my area (New England) these days involve fibercement nailed directly over the sheathing without any gap for the water to drain or dry. In airtight and well insulated modern homes (a good thing), that's a recipe for failure.
So little water gets past siding,that this gap,hard to achieve, is wasteful.We know what works already..really not looking g to improve that minor aspect,if it's even there!
That’s why folks who do it right use furring strips to attach your cladding or siding. You get the benefit of the air gap and avoid putting fastener holes in your material.
After years of watching the Build Show, I just used Tayvek commercial D with cap fasteners to wrap my home addition. I was concerned with leaking fasteners so I tooled a dab of window sealant over every single cap. It’s time consuming but it’s given me a little piece of mind.
Matt, I’m 70, a still active carpenter (with a lot of experience in several other trades, of course) -and have either general contracted or completely built with my own labor about 40 houses. Your videos are- hands down- the best entertaining , edited, informative, intelligent and just plain likable ones I have ever seen regarding construction, architecture and inside tips on house construction. I have great respect for what you do here. Amazing. Thank you.
Hope youre still going strong, man. Id love to sit down and have a beer with you, learn some things and hear some stories. My goal for retirement has always been 70. Keep it up old man, guys like us (though im 27 at the moment, just started my own LLC) make the world go round.
@@scumbaggo
Start a hefty investment strategy now with your own company and you can retire in your 50's.
Please tell me you are in Virginia. I have some jobs for you haha
ZIP is less forgiving when it comes to install and you must use their branded (3M) tape. Consequently it's why you almost never see production builders use it. Production builders want the cheapest code min OSB and housewrap they can get.
Also the nailing schedule for ZIP-R is just crazy because the interior facing foam causes it to lose racking resistance
Absolutely love that you address "Ad Issues" that happen on your videos. Shows how much you care about your followers and their leaning of the products you use.
Well done Matt, addressing every issue that was misleading in the slander add.
Love your videos!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
It is repugnant to see industry sponsored studies; DuPont, I believe, like many other industry sponsored studies will lie to our faces; they really undermine our intelligence and trust. We need to always ask ourselves who is sponsoring a particular study and if there is a conflict of interest; We should not have the airplane builders tell us the airplane is safe just because they say so. Or pharmaceutical company test their own drugs and claim they are safe an effective without a truthful independent study. This is another great episode by Matt. Thanks.
Brought to you by Pfizer!
It is not safe to assume independent studies will be truthful and not have conflict of interests (e.g. Andrew Wakefield;s MMR study).
So don’t trust any corporation selling anything. Good advice.
DuPont family is tight with the big guy
Dupont created chemical weapons for the Nazis.
The zip tape is awesome. One guy used it to patch rust holes on his truck and it's still stuck fast after years. Used it to patch ripped pants one day on the job. Even after working the whole day and sending it through the washer it still held up
Thanks Matt! Because of your videos, I just met with a rep from Huber this week! I actually mentioned your videos to the rep when he asked where I was seeing this product being used. Thanks for clearing up this issue. I have seen the attack adds lately and was beginning to feel uncertain about using the zip system. I have been building for about 13 years and your videos have changed the way I view my responsibility as a builder. Keep up the great work sir!
I could be wrong, but I think the only issue people are coming up against is that they aren't filling the nail divots. If instally right, it looks like a great product
I’ve never used zip but been curious about the differences since the crew I run with uses tyvec. I feel like I saw a lot of negative tyvec videos but seeing this makes me realize that it is a somewhat level playing field. Thanks for the video. This really helped split the differences for me.
I love your content and completely agree the Tyvek lab test was obviously unfair. That said, I think you could stand to specifically call out your Huber sponsorship once or twice during this video. Not saying you aren't upfront about it, as it's always in the description. Just saying some extra emphasis would lend even more credibility to what is clearly a solid argument.
Valid point. Their logo is at the end of all my videos too
That doesn't matter at all Huber is a plywood manufacturer. They don't make zip or tyvek.
@@girlmastergeneral Huber makes Zip.
@@buildshow Hey Matt, would be more honest to clearly state you are endorsed by Huber in the beginning of your ad and not until the last 7 seconds. Couple of points, that test you mention was done at Construction Consulting Labs in Carrollton, TX. They’ve been in business since the 70s. Real testing facility, real test. Website: www.sunited.com. Also, the water column test, definitely a cap staple within the column installed with DuPont™ Tyvek®. You can see it at the 1:18 mark here: th-cam.com/video/3paeg45EX40/w-d-xo.html. DuPont always engages in proper testing. As we can all agree, products are not better on their own, they are better working with a system of materials. Installation is key.
@@WeatherizationPartners Good catch.
Matt, I am really surprised you do not have more subscribers. Your videos are high quality with top notch information. I have been in the industry on and off my whole life around the nation and your advise has always been sound. You final product (homes) is one of perfection.
I just came from watching This old house and they the Zip product on a Cape Cod house. Tom Silva addressed the issue about the nails going to far. And he demonstrated how they use the liquid flashing to the holes. Great video explaining the two products
As a builder, carpenter, and framer for over 30 years, I see that most people are standing the wall sheating in the vertical direction instead of the horizontal position. 6:24. No one sheats a floor or a roof in this direction because the strength axis of ply and osb is perpendicular to the framing members. A wall is both stronger laterally, winds shear wise, and earth quake wise when the walls are sheathed with the plywood laid horizontally and staggered, not dissimilar to brick bonding. It should also be laid in a way that ties in floors and walls together. No 1 foot strip at floor/rim section. Plus, the plywood should definitely have a 1/8 inch gap between the horizontal rows for expansion. When you stand them up on a long wall, you run the chance of running out of stud, or if laid tight, having a couple of buckles at some point in the plywood.
Either way, laying sheets horizontally on the wall is more correct and a far superior than the other way around.
I think they are in areas without any earthquakes so they are not as concerned about lateral movement. I agree with you 100% best practice is horizontal and staggered. Taping may be more difficult, but you'll have a much stronger frame.
OSB and zip sheathing can be made with the strength axis in either direction. For intended vertical wall panels, the strength axis is across the short 4' side.
I am currently building my own house. I will be running 9’ sheets of Zip vertically. It will tie my 8’ walls very securely to the rim boards. Also the tape seems will all be vertical with the exception of the top and bottom. With no horizontal seams I feel like there will be less chance of water leaking into the wall face. A horizontal failure in the tape could result in a funnel directing water into the wall. I am sure that the horizontal wall insulation is actually stronger but in my hot humid often wet area of the country I am more concerned with the least chance of water infiltration. I have 2x6” walls and every window and door has at least 1 extra stud on each side. 2x12” floor joists with only a 7.5’ span. You could probably land a helicopter on it lol.
Terry
I am so glad you addressed this ad. They disabled comments so you can't call B.S. on that video.
In Canada, almost all that I see being used is Tyvek, and they just staple it on. I have yet to see any Zip Systems in Edmonton, and I hope to secure a job that will allow me to do it and start using such a fantastic system. I started my own company a year ago and have yet to land a large client, but your videos have so far taught me more than my apprenticeship training ever had. I am always spreading the word about these tips and tricks and products to my colleagues, and they are just as astounded as I am as to why we aren't using them.
I recently renovated a house for a friend and added some exterior insulation to it and the difference in that thermal bridging is just amazing. I can go into the house when it is plus 32 degrees celsius or 98 for you, and the house is cold without an air conditioner. And I thought it was funny because in your video recently, I think, you say that northern parts of the US require exterior insulation on top of the interior. In Canada, we don't require exterior insulation at all. I feel like our zero degrees weather would be much more manageable with exterior insulation.
I appreciate your hard work and sharing the lessons that you've learned along the way. I hope to meet you one day and talk more in-depth about really anything haha.
Keep it up!
Well Down from you, but Up here in Wisconsin, we don't require exterior insulation at all here too.. I think the stuff I do see when required seems to be mostly blue and sometimes pink styrofoam house sheet... I guess that is good but it kinda bugs me to see this stuff, but I can't put my finger on why...
@@baloneyjusticecheezedog I know why. Because this stuff is very bad for environment.
@@romanslavo1 naa.. I don't care about the environment that much.. I would rather use fiberglass insulation in the walls of my house because it itches if you touch it.. but I could not care if gets recycled, thrown into the dump, or set on fire behind a gas station as long as I never have to deal with it again.
Same goes for styrofoam, if it killing me.. I don't care.
@@romanslavo1 can you share your thoughts on what is a good insulation for the environment?
Same here, in Ontario. I don't see Zip available anywhere, outside of a special order. Tyvek house wrap is the standard. Overpriced tape only on the seams is code, nothing on the million staple penetrations or the damage made by the hammer staplers. That being said, I have read that the Zip tape only has a 25-year life expectancy and even the OSB with laminated zip insulation can become delaminated after the same time frame. They claim the Tyvek wrap and tape exceeds 50 years. Not my claims btw, just found in my research. The zip system seems to make sense to me and the insulation laminated to the OSB would help eliminate a step if requiring another layer of insulation outside of the frame. But haven't been able to make a cost comparison since it's not easily available here, in my neck of the woods.
For what it's worth I've not seen any of those ads before your videos. Also, your channel has led me to learn about building science including the Building Science Podcast where I can get even MORE information. Keep up the good work my man, I hope to own a home that would make you proud!
Zip R-Sheathing (R6 or R9) with fluid applied for all the seams and nail heads would be the best option in my opinion. Wish I built my new house with that system.
The insulation is on the inside of the panel and it gives a little when nailed so a lot of care is needed. when used on a shear wall my engineer recommends against it. And lets face it every exterior wall is a shear wall nowadays with so many windows. I wish its a product I can use. But not according to my engineer! Maybe my windload is just too high?
@@blamuk You probably need to add let-in diagonal braces. My 1979 house has foam sheathing with diagonal braces and it hasn't fallen down yet!
@@clandry1234 let in braces are old school! real shear panels are much much stronger. I dont think the cost of adding let in bracing (even if my engineer lets me) just so that I can use zip-R is worth it compared to just do plywood+exterior XPS for a much stronger wall.
T-studs would be included in insulation system if I were building a new house.
@@lelenbates3367 unfortunately t studs are still not as readily available - I can't just pick them up in the lumber yard. It's all custom ordering. Difficult to even get accurate pricing info in CO. I guess you can plan to order more than you need to reduce the risks of delays etc. Still not very convenient.
This actually felt unbiased. Cannot believe i am watching a unbiased factual video. Nice
Matt you're always on top of it!
Matt,
Thank you for the video very helpful. I'm still preaching for guys around here to watch your video.A lot builder's around here think the tyvek is a complete water proof system. Thanks again keep the video's coming please!
Always rainscreen. That airgap allows everything to dry out.
Totally agree!
@@buildshow TH-cam needs a solid step by step rainscreen installation video. I know you have a few that touch on the topic, but there's very little professional information on rainscreen installation regarding placement near/under moldings, trims, doors, windows etc
And proper drip-caps above doors/windows. 90% of the time I see leaks it's due to poor flashing. Anyone can buy a Tapco...not everyone knows how to bend and install well 😁
I agree also, with rainscreen. But it still dosnt stop moisture from getting in thru the penetrations in the paper. Wood shingles are the best siding hands down. Triple coverage. Zip system is trash either way. People putting up vinyl siding directly over zip shld loose their lic to build
@@jeepsuc99 why? From what I have seen there is little issue if the siding is properly installed. Now if your talking illegals as siding jockeys, slopping work on it yes you might have issues. Watched a house that lost 80% of the vinyl siding in tornado, had Zip R sheeting. And even in driving rain had no issues with water intrusion. Also house was built to be air tight so what little moisture did intrude it was handled by airflow and air management on the INSIDE. Guys house AFTER tornado gained 1.23% humidity but went back to normal in less than 24 hrs.
Figure with Zip on roof, they had VERY minor water as roof came off, same as siding. But owner got on roof, used Zip Flash on every nail holes and nail much same way builder did. At least on part with out ice and rain shield.
Each product, if installed properly works ok. I have actually seen more water issues with Tyvek from poor install practices than Zip /Zip R. And I have been researching many products for my soon to be built pole barn garage with second floor apartment.
One of the serious issues I have seen in past was OSB has no ability to resist water, Zip/Zip R does.
A great, clear and concise analysis of "pseudo-scientific" testing of competing vapor barrier products. You have a great channel with useful information and a high level of professional integrity.
Another great one. Thank you. At 6:28, the zipped house shows vertical panels. Shouldn't they be rotated 90 degrees for greater shear strength like plywood?
Tyvek dry rots. Took siding off a renovation and the Tyvek was falling apart. On another job, a house built in 1947 with wood siding, the siding was starting to dry rot. after the siding was off the tar paper was 100% secure and sound, keeping the moisture out of the wall. AMAZING. I recently put Hardie Board on my own house, so I put 4 coats of exterior enamel on both sides of the siding to seal it, then on install used 45ln tarpaper as a moisture barrier, then caulked the back edges and overlap of the Hardie board to seal it up. I't been on the house now for 12 years and no cracks anywhere. Chris Callaway, TECS Insulation, Richland Hills TX
I've built one house with zip, and was at first skeptical. It seemed tedious and extra sometimes, but I think if I build my own house in the future I'll use Zip, unless technology has surpassed it. We used Sikaflex in sausage guns on the over penetrations which seems bulletproof, and I dont think there's a better system than Zip if you install it correctly.
I renovate and rehab houses in Philadelphia and often remove incredibly old facades to reveal what has to be at least 75 year old tar paper that is in perfect condition and still functioning as it should with no failures. I sometimes wonder why we don’t still use such a simple and effective material and application (I will still use it in situations where I am replicating the previous construction for historical purposes). I would love to see a comparison of traditional tar paper to the new materials to see how it stacks up against the modern applications. Thx for the great video, as usual.
You see that because those old houses are leaky and required a ton of energy to heat. The constant air movement through the wall keeps it dry.
Here is what I will tell you about either Tyvek or Zip. I have used them both and after living in both homes for 10+ years I could not tell the difference between one vs. the other and I have never saw either product after is was covered again. So one vs. the other can also have to do with where your building. Now, having said that. First of all; a properly installed product either one, Tyvek or Zip is the foundation to success with either product. Then what are you putting over top for your exterior finish? Masonry/brick or stone, Wood, Vinyl/Alumni, Cement Siding, Stucco. Regardless of the product, making sure the exterior product is properly installed, especially around opening like doors, windows and vents, outlets. If you are going to see water penetration it will be at one of these areas. So proper “sill flashing” and of drip edges, proper use of quality caulking around windows and doors will make a very big difference. Absolute regardless of house wrap you use.............
so glad i have an older home, block and brick construction. will be here for hundreds of years as long as it's pointed every 30 years.
Not to mention all the holes you add with siding to both systems.... the siding and trim install is the most important of all steps, no question.
Ironically both these system just treat the siding like it's just there as UV protection and wind break
It’s almost as if one were really concerned about water and air (and all the fasteners from the siding), one would use regular osb, or plywood, then add a grace type ice and water shield product to the entire thing instead. $$$
@@scotttrafford5671 you are really close to that with zip if you use the fluid applied flashing system zip 2.0
and soon as you put a nail in tyvek you loose the warranty
@@scotttrafford5671 Check out David Poz channel. He built his house just like that.
i saw these ads before his videos, searched “zip system cons,” and found another of his videos addressing & debunking those exact ads. i love how this little rabbit hole went full circle lmao
you have the best building information ive ever watched
Alex Cummins I agree.
Thanks Brother. Sure appreciate that
@@buildshow you should do a collab video with Matt from OffTheRanch youtube channel th-cam.com/video/LWV4yjvskgk/w-d-xo.html&t you are both in the Austin/San Antonio Texas Area! He's currently purchased a project that he could most definitely use your insight.
Love your videos but since your a southern builder the techniques don’t mean much to northeast builders. Can anyone recommend a TH-cam channel that is as good for northeast builders?
TheReefaholic Fine Homebuilding
Ha! I just finished watching your video and that Tyvek ad came up. I had never heard of ZIP until watching your videos. Everyone in California uses Tyvek. Now I'm in Utah, and I've seen both.
With mandatory exterior foam [we do 2" taped] and tyvek , you have a pretty strong assembly. Water will have to penetrate cladding, foam, tyvek, osb to do some damage.... I think both systems can work, if details are taken care of. Kudos for exposing deceptive claims.
I like using only INSULATED zips for only one reason: Insulated Zip sheathing removes thermal bridging between studs. The area of the typically framed wall 8' long by 8' high built 16.oc will have 15% of its area covered with studs that have Rvalue of 2.2. You can put any type of insulation between studs, foam or fiber glass , but 15% of the wall still will be cold because of the studs. Insulated Zip Sheathing removes thermal bridging, thus saving you 15% of energy. Plus it gives additional R9 from the outside.
But Zip tape is very expensive. And it is cheaper to put Tyvek over Zip system than using Zip tape. Also, my opinion that it is almost impossible to do flashing above the window with the zip tape. Think about it: water gets on the sheathing and drains down between the tape and the sheathing above the window. If you use Tyvek over Zip system you will be able to flash windows properly. I think that Zip uninsulated sheathing is worse than regular OSB with Tyvek
You're not wrong, but most of my heat load is from the ceiling and fenestrations, not thermal conductance via studs. The extra R-value on the sheathing is something to be appreciated with something like LEED energy certified homes, in which Zip's expensive tape is going to come in handy on blower door tests anyway.
Good point.
Great video! Speaking for myself, DuPont shot itself in the foot with that bogus, slanted demo. Any doubts I had about ZIP are gone. I'll never use house wrap again.
Advantech or plywood with fluid applied STPE WRB being the best option? It doesn't matter if the leaks are slow on either tyvek or zip. OSB is terrible as a building product because with either one it'll turn to mush over time.
Was wood.
OSB is a great sheathing. It's that the houses are not painted properly these days. Cheap Mexican labor is the problem
@@SKANK_HUNT49 It is not the cheap labor that is the problem. It is some builders that try to cut corners and lack of training & knowledge of the product that is the problem.
@@ShadowxxPanda I agree it is the builders. Where they cut Corners is hiring illegals so they can save a buck. Believe me I am the Carpenter but gets cold when no one else can figure it out
@@SKANK_HUNT49 osb should never come into contact with water and will fail quickly if exposed
Thanks!
I love hearing you and Jordan are still friends, when he split off I was wondering if it was a good split. You both seem like good people.
I have seem many times an osb house wrapped and after being exposed to a rain or high humidity you can run your hand over the house wrap and you can feel the osb is absorbing moisture and surface swelling .
Now that Texas experienced freezing temps, you may want to inspect their tapes again in the future to see if the temps made them brittle or deteriorate with (1-time) extreme temp differentiations.
Kudos for leveling the playing field and being fair.
Thank you! You have answered a major concern we've had regarding plastic caps, not to mention the confirmation of products.
I've used the Zip Flashing when I resided my trailer, and when it has had an hour or so do bond to the surface, you can pull it off but only with some of the material that it is bonded to. The key is using a squeegee type piece of hard rubber or roller. I used it around all my doors and windows after seeing Kyle from RR Buildings use it on some of his builds, before going to the Weather Logic system. Just thought I would throw in my personal experience with using the Zip Flashing. I'll use it from now on when I'm trying to weather proof something!
A question at the end. I am not familiar with the Zip system but do know a bit about Tyvek. Around the 6:10 mark you mention that the Zip is both a water barrier and air barrier. You do not say that it is a vapor barrier but if people believe it to be a vapor barrier, at least for Tyvek, I know that it is not a vapor barrier nor is it intended to be. I know many people that do believe Tyvek is a vapor barrier, when it is intended to be a wind (air) barrier, as well as a (secondary) water barrier, for any water that would get by whatever cladding has been used.
My understanding of vapor barriers has always been to install it on the "warm" side of the wall, which for most houses except for the deep south of the US, the vapor barrier goes on the inside of the wall. Having a vapor barrier on the outside and then installing a vapor barrier on the inside also would be a big no-no.
So as stated at the outset, not knowing the Zip system, your comment about it being a barrier for air and water, this does not make it a vapor barrier....correct?
Zip sheathing is great but as a professional waterproofer that has done millions of square feet of waterproofing with just about every product, it is way easier and creates a full seal to use plain sheathing with something like Sonneborne 700 and 700b fluid applied that can be rolled on and even covers the taped seams and anyone can apply it easily just make sure to buy heavy duty roller frames. I'm a professional waterproofer and it's what I used on my own home. Fluid applied will always beat any other since it creates a FULL envelope covering every scratch, nail, and joint and seam.
What's the point of applying a fluid over the fasteners if you're just going to come back later and make new holes with siding or other exterior fasteners? How are leaks mitigated there?
Nail heads are the concern. Cladding nails will only penetrate at the shank.
Rainscreens are effective since there is a gap to allow any water that gets behind the siding to dry out.
Overdriven nails are a concern. Normal installation does not leak. You're going to come back and put the same holes in Tyvek too, but at least with Zip you don't get moisture buildup behind the barrier.
@@matt_metcalf tyvek is a breathable membrane, anything that gets behind it will dry out, it also contains micro ribs to guide any condensation down and out, which is why you use it instead of just plastic sheeting.
@@EitriBrokkrI believe the ribs are for moisture on the exterior side of the tyvek (the space between foam and the tyvek). If you're getting water behind your air/weather barrier then it's not doing it's job, right?
Thank you for taking the time to compare these two technologies. Very helpful Matt!
Great video and explanation, Matt! It was a fun trip. Thanks!
I would like to thank you both for that video. I was very sceptical about Zip Systems because of the competitors video. Thanks for setting the record straight.
THANK YOU! It was SO good to see someone expose advertisers.
The only problem with the zip system is when they add rigid insulation, which is sandwich between the framing and sheeting. I think it compramizes sheer strength by allowing a soft region to where the nail or fastener can bend or move.
It doesnt
@@natemartinez4595 Can you explain why you say it doesn't? It seems to me and Herboth... that the sheet of Zip R hanging out an inch will certainly not be as rigid as a sheet nailed directly to the framing. I'm getting ready to choose between ZipR and using spray foam instead.
Zip system & done! Wanna get really detailed & eliminate all doubt, cut little pieces & cover the nails! Also, I seen a crew using 2" decking staples & the over driven break in the Zip barrier was less evasive than gun nails!
Kudos for calling out an advertiser in a meaningful way
Aaron Norris ... with an ad paid for by his sponsor Huber, which makes the Zip products the Tyvek ad trashed. I have no opinion which as to which ad was less accurate, but at least Tyvek's was honest about the fact that it was a paid ad.
Another poster has also pointed out that the testing in the Tyvek ad was done at an independent lab, while the testing in this ad was done by Huber and its paid supporter, Mr. Rissinger.
Either product can be used to make a good wall. Neither ad should be taken as gospel.
Has anybody ever thought on how the original water proofing was done way back in the 1970s? They spray it with a marine grade polymer plastic and use a silicone-silicon caulking that can last like a stone! What happened to these time-tested and time-proven technology?
darthvader5300 I'm pretty sure roofing felt (aka tar paper) and Class D building paper predate that. Properly applied, they keep out liquid water while letting water vapor pass through to dry out any water that gets into the wall.
I've never actually seen what you describe, but it sounds vapor-impermeable, which would block drying to the outside. That MIGHT have worked in an uninsulated wall with air blowing freely through it, but on a modern insulated wall, and especially one built with an interior air barrier, that doesn't leave much of a way for the sheathing to dry. A little water always gets into walls. You either give it a way to evaporate, or you rip down the wall later to remediate the mold.
@@monsterrodvonhugen "with an ad paid for by his sponsor Huber" Huber is only one sponsor among 6. "done by Huber and its paid supporter, Mr. Rissinger." Huber is a sponsor, so Matt is not a paid supporter.
"at least Tyvek's was honest about the fact that it was a paid ad." The video above was not an ad, and Matt listed the sponsors. You've not shown him to be dishonest.
"Tyvek ad was done at an independent lab, while the testing in this ad was done by Huber" The lab location has no bearing on how good the test is. As Matt showed, the testing done in the ad that he was addressing was a poorly designed test. If you can show that the test in this video was actually poorly designed, then you have a point.
"Neither ad" Only one was an ad, the other is a part of an ongoing series.
It seems to me that you are conflating having a formed opinion based on experience with being a paid shill.
I really like your standards, many things we would not think of looking for in flaws.
Matt this is PRE siding. The siders show up and drive 200x the fasteners right through either product.
Sometimes missing the framing and pulling the nail. Hole, right through the "watertight" system.
This is a good discussion but has to include the finished product.
I wanna see the shooting range test to simulate the Detroit abandoned suburbs to see if zip or tyvek wins.
I installed zip sheathing with open cell foam on my passiveHaus. The fasteners with the foam became a significant water wicking issue. We had several stud bays that became very moist damp with water. We ended up having to install closed cell in the rest of the house and going back over each nail hole with the zip liquid flashing. I reached out to Huber about this issue. These product issues should be more well known.
The water was probably from interior moisture migrating through the open cell foam and being stopped by the impermeable zip panel. If the fasteners were all in the studs as they should be they could not leak into the foam.
Both systems are ostensibly still going to have siding applied, almost always nailed through, so even if you diligently caulk every single “overdriven nail“ or staple, as soon as you nail on your siding you’re going to create new penetrations! It seems that there is absolutely no way to keep all water from ever penetrating walls, so I guess the best solution is to ensure that the walls can dry out. Right?
That’s for siding not stucco or various other features that can go over these systems
I have the Zip system on my house. Build it 6 years ago. Has great and i have been impressed. I have old piece of zip board that i have been using out side around here since house was build and it still is in good shape considering rain, snow. Sun etc. I have leak at my windows on the house. The key is to not tape the bottom of the windows. 6 years ago we where to that You should tape the bottoms. So that I see has now changed. We pulled the siding off and cut the zip tape from the bottoms of the windows.. no more leaks. And yes it still was stuck like glue.. Great system. Will use again
there is a fix to the fastener I staple my tyvek, and I tape were the staples are. and for the zip's I use the liquid flashing to cover the nail's
You make great points here Matt. There does seem to be a bit of a smear campaign happening and I appreciate the clarity you are bringing to the discussion. The one thing I really like about the zip system is UV and wind defense for projects sitting exposed for several months during construction. The zip system is a clear winner here, add in the labor savings of waterproofing with sheathing and the conversation becomes interesting. Both systems have a place and time will tell but the fact is simple, progress happens. Thanks for providing solid info. Keep up the good work.
This is my first time seeing this video. And oddly enough, the first time seeing the attack add you mention as well. It just makes them seem desperate.
Well one thing to remember when buying a house. If the builders put up stuco, or cladding right after it rained. If the wrap still allowed leaking behind allow it to dry before getting it sealed from water.
I built my house about 26 years ago and used Tyvek as a house wrap. A short time later I added a 3 season room but lacking Tyvek I used good old fashioned 15lb tar paper. I can tell you, without question, that tar paper works a million times better at preventing water intrusion. I have no experience with the zip system but if I could do it all over again I would never, ever use Tyvek. Tyvek has zero sealing properties. Drive a nail or screw into it and you have hole. I recently stripped my siding off and where I had Tyvek there was water staining and rot. Where I had tar paper the wood looked brand new. DuPont has done a great job marketing Tyvek but I would advise anyone building a new home to stay far, far away from it and go with old fashioned tar paper.
Thanks. I agree our old methods are so much better, The recent rash of tornadoes in the Midwest the old houses were still standing and all the new houses were wiped out. I'm surprised the weather channel was even aloud to state that. I've been in construction for about 40 years and everything has gone down hill massively. Of course it's not just construction.
Over drive a nail in the zip system and you also have a hole, and often one that you're not aware of. ZIP has done almost a good of a job of marketing as DuPont has done. If installed correctly, both are great. I just don't think ZIP is 50-80% better which is the cost difference.
@@Zimbob2424 That's because it's all about speed and cutting costs. Time is money and the guys on the site are pushed to finish everything as quickly as possible guaranteeing short cuts are taken. I'm not against new ideas but too many of these products are designed to cut costs either by allowing the use of cheaper materials, speeding up installation or both. Problem is that that issues won't surface for about 15 years and then it's too late.
@@wtjarrard I haven't used the Zip system but it seems it's taken off like wild fire. I agree with you, put a hole in the coating and you are left with exposed OSB which doesn't do well with water. The manufacturer has very specific installation instructions that if followed to a tee probably results in a good product. The problem is that I've never been on a site where that happens either due to mistakes, oversites or because of cutting corners.
I'm not a builder but my brother is and I've worked with him on quite a few houses. Those that we've opened up that have plank or plywood walls covered in felt paper always seem to look brand new. Those with house wrap, not so much.
@@richmac918 Most of the guys I know are NOT in a rush, I was referring to the materials and codes. But investors are like that, I mostly work for home owners
Apparently, this is what a company does when they feel that there is a superior produce to their own. Too bad Tyvek couldn't do a more fair and objective test to compare a competitions product with their own. They probably could have learned something, and improved the quality of their own product. As it is, thanks to your objective comparison, Tyvek seems to me to be anything but truthful, or fair, and I would avoid their products at all costs. Even though you did say that both products were good. To me, integrity also plays a roll in what companies I support.
I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos, am subscribed, and feel I am gaining some very insightful and useful knowledge that I may be able to apply to my own home build one day. Thanks for posting, and keep up that great work!
You are hitting those Bob Ross levels, man.
I appreciate your analytical review of this common back and forth debate. Me 30 year contractor New England. I'm pro typar anti zip sidewall... 5/8 zip roof sheathing is fine. Reasons: As a much younger carpenter I was strapping a large garage on a freshly poured and finished floor in July. The floor was obviously sweating and basically drenched. The guys on the outside were dropping all sorts of things but one was scraps of typar (tyvek more common at the time). When I picked up at the end of the day the scraps of tvek/typar with the lettering up left completely dry patches on the sweaty concrete floor...the pieces with the letters down did nothing. This proved to me that the oneway system of tyvek/typar actually does move moistures away. I believe matts demonstration is flawed as he acknowledged. The test used cap fasteners is asking for problems (also they did not tape the seams off on the test panel..thats a big omission in my view) . I hammer-tack staples and tyvek/typar tape all seams, corners, and skirts over CDX which is vastly superior (in my opinon to OSB anything). That is a complete moisture wicking system over a superior wall sheathing sheet good. We use Blueskin by the beach FYI. Problems with Zip wall. I have seen 3 failures on less than 3 year old new constructions. All at the lower corners of new construction windows and doors. The doors and windows were prepped correctly with window tape offs and exterior doors with lead pans (when lead was cheap) . The failures occurred just off the taped edges. I'm not sure why but this enough to push me back to CDX and house wrap taped off correctly. The cost to zip vs. labor is similar especially if you factor in over driving nails which then requires zip tape patches or rubber sparkle... Just wrap it wit typar..Proven, effective, efficient.....PS zip R-sheathing is effective but we still typar it,
Here’s the million dollar question regardless of the house wrap how is the cladding attached to the sheathing? It has to be a mechanical fastener and a penetration so how do you deal with that?
That's a damn good question
Butyl every screw
Stone siding
You're not supposed to think about that. Lol
There are some wraps, peel n sticks, and fluid applied that claim they are 'self sealing' around fasteners. I've never personally trusted nor tested it but I'd love to see someone do it.
Thank you, Matt. That ad has been bothering me for a long time.
How long has the Zip system been in use for?
Have there been any of the original houses built with that system been remodeled and the tapes found been inspect for condition over the long term?
I like the benefits these new technologies offer over the old school systems, but I do worry that if they do start to leak in 20 or 30 years they end up trapping moisture behind them and it'd not be a pretty sight.
I completely resheathed my house with zip, step flashed every corner, and used staples for fastening. Outside siding is cedar cladding all the way. All joints were air sealed from the inside.
I want to know where I get ruined here. Tell me where I screwed up.
If you've designed the wall assembly correctly with only 1 vapor barrier (ZIP) then any moisture that gets through will dry to the interior if you condition your house. I could foresee issues of water gets into the OSB and can't escape though
so glad i have an older home, block and brick construction. will be here for hundreds of years as long as it's pointed every 50 years...
I recently installed zip R 1/2" on a small project...seems it holds moisture between the osb and the foam. Moisture tests at 25%+ in spots. Also the foam on seams compresses more than in the field causing more issues siding and getting rippling down the walls.
Is that moisture coming from interior moisture migrating through the foam?
@@percyfaith11 as I remember it was humid and hadn't rained for days so more than likely was condensing on the oab after migrating through the foam.
Thank you for an objective critique of the two systems and especially on the tests that were done which were not at all a proper comparison.
Retired builder, 50+ in the field. Tyvek is just about useless unless you can apply it without nails and staples. I’m no Luddite I love new products and systems. Over decades of home building I’ve seen new products, the next new thing that will change the game, come and go, aluminum siding comes to mind. So many flash in the pans. Tyvek will eventually fall completely out of favor, the only reason it’s still around is because the industry in general has so much invested in it, every lumber yard and supply Co. has its own logo printed house rap, instant billboards that users pay for, but that’s not the only reason. I could go on for pages.
Zip was an immediate game changer and has proved itself. Another innovation that might be as game changing is ice and water shield membrane, I first started noticing it in the mid 80s and now a modern roofer wouldn’t know how to start a roof without it.
Things that work perfectly and do the advertised job right out of the box with absolutely no problems stick around.
Zip works as advertised, Tyvek dose not work as advertised unless you jump through a hundred hoops of fire to make it almost live up to its expectations. Zip will be around for a long long time, Tyvek is fading away and I say good riddance.
It's hard to tell from the video but I see only couple fasteners on Zip panels (1:52) and they seem to be perfectly driven into the panels which is impossible to do on a job site when using a nail gun. Both systems leak if installed in normal conditions unless the fasteners are taped over. Leaking is not that significant though and rain-screen should help drying and prevent any water damage to the structure.
Matt,
What instructions do you give your masons when putting on their bricks ties on the ZIP system. thanks
Christian Carcamo put rubber butyl chauk where you install fastener then screw thru it.
dave taylor Yeah I’ll let my Hispanic masons know they need to bring a cpl cases of Butyl caulk and start doing that. I’m sure they’ll get it right.
@Jeff Rasberry there's actually English speaking american masons still around?
@@HBSuccess - if you're going to use Spanish speaking subcontractors, you need to speak Spanish (especially Spanish construction jargon).
"Caulk and Block"
Solid response. Strong evidence & winsome attitude.
Matt, the question I’ve always had with any system is how do you handle all of the holes created by staples from stucco lathe or nails from siding? Seems like someone could spend all the time and money to install a good system then ruin it by driving thousands of nails and staples through it. How do you handle that if there is no budget for a rainscreen?
Marcus Preston use a wrb that is self sealing like blue skin
great point! nobody is talking about that....at the end of the day the zip is way over priced for particle board that has been simply painted. before covid they were 10$ a sheet at home depot now they are 30$
@@welewisiii Just finished my first project with Blueskin VP100 and loved it. A bit more expensive than Tyvek but wayyy better. Framer charged a little extra to install. Little bit of a learning curve for them but they did a really good job. Not that hard to install actually.
Marcus Preston i build coastal homes in nj and very few people use zip blueskin over cdx plywood is what’s on any house that’s not a spec house.
@@welewisiii Yeah here in southeast Texas Blueskin hasn’t really broken into the market much at all. I never see it on houses, because I don’t think many builders here know about it. I think only a handful of builders use it and that’s a shame. It’s a great product! A small portion of people here use Zip but most use OSB with Tyvek. Do you prefer the method of priming all of the plywood before applying Blueskin or do you just rely on the adhesive alone on the back of the Blueskin?
Plywood with Prosoco’s system beats zip hands down. Better perm rating and seals around fasteners that are added from siding or cladding. The zip system is just osb that is sprayed and perforated on the outside layer. OSB takes longer to dry out and it’s not very permeable.
Not having to go back and put 10' wide roll of tyvek on the house while standing on a ladder is reason enough for me.
Anytime I get playing around with a big sail the wind always gusts! There is actually a new ad that plays now. These false ads have caused me to loose my respect for both Dupont and traditional house wraps. Why would they have to stoop so low if they had a product that was even comparable? 1)Early in the commercial, they claim that the crew installed both systems according to the manufacturer's specs. Later they say that BOTH crews have experience in installing the before-mentioned products. What they failed to mention is how much experience each crew had. 2) They claim that Zip requires a 1/8" gap. All sheathing requires an 1/8" gap for expansion and contraction purposes. At the end they say "Don't fall for unproven claims." Ok, I won't use their wrap on my house!
If you put the tyvek on the walls while they are lying on the floor deck before lifting the wall then u dont need to go back with a 10' roll on a ladder. Work smarter not harder 🤔
@@dleblanc6646 came to say the same thing. Tyvex before you stand the wall then tyvex the gable before you flip it up. leave a 2 foot overhang , Tyvex tape the seam. Good to go.
@@dleblanc6646 not always possible depending on design of house and size of crews , but good point.
If I had to choose between the two, I would choose ZIP. Simple because the waterproof layer is permanently bonded to the sheathing whereas with Tyvek the separate waterproof layer has to be attached to the sheathing using additional fasteners. This creates a gap that water, air, insects, animals, etc can penetrate.
Too funny.....tyvek attack ad at the end of your video.....however they do make several valid points, but of course any publication that is “ one sided” , also falls under the definition of propaganda. In my experience , the budget is what determines which system is used; with Tyvek being the more affordable option.
Just sided home and used Zip! Used a very high quality siding product installed properly! 30 years service life at least!
Zip can be a one-man job. Tyvek, not so easy.
A full roll of tyvek can be rough but it's manageable an if you don't need the full length say for gables or whatever u cut the while roll in half an always used a slap stapler if they using nail caps they just slowing themselves down can do a wall in about ten min..I only used cap nails if I put a foam type barrier over the tyvek/ wrap product
@Patrick Hudson how big was that shed..my tyvek rolls come 10ft standard...one man's shed another's Manson 😆
Your videos always make good points in both directions. I’ve used both systems I found the tie vac paper easier quicker and more cost-effective as well. I was taught from the beginning to always seal those gaskets with Tyvek tape not sure if anyone else does that or not?
Sorry that was supposed to say Tyvek paper
Dupont gave you a thumbs down
HAHA.
Lol
Lol
That soak test with the vacuum behind the wall is intended to accelerate the leaking process enough to actually measure it. Otherwise, you're stuck with capillary action behind the fasteners, which goes very slowly.
I don't dwell too much on either system.
-- The appeal of Zip is effectively paint. We paint fences/facias and they last outside just fine. If you saturate OSB with spar urethane, you can leave it underwater.
-- The appeal of Tyvek is ventilation. If it rains one day only to be hot and dry 2 days later, then the heat/low humidity will dry out any tiny bit of moisture that makes it into the siding, skipping the painting process.
-- I like zip instead of Tyvek because it's not unreasonable to think that bugs can get under the Tyvek paper.
Houses are depressurized by dryers, kitchen fans, and bath fans. It’s not an unfair test.
@@Krunch2020 You're right. Plus, when you attach stuff on top of it, there's no seal. The moral of the story is, the cladding is our primary defense against moisture. The other moral of the story is, when you talk to desert dwellers like me about moisture issues, our perspective will be skewed.
So what happens with both systems when the siding is nailed on? That creates tons of nail holes.
This is never addressed. Like why use the expensive nails for tyvec if you are going to pound in thousands of plain old nails through it when hanging siding???
Nothing. These systems only experience minor wetting unless there's a cladding failure which is a more serious issue by itself.
Same as any system, use plywood and take paper and the nails will go through that
Back in the day we used #15 felt to help protect the boxing. The siding, caulking, and paint were the first line of defense in keeping moisture out; and effective if installed correctly. When Tyvek was introduced it was promoted as a wind barrier. The zip board was promoted as a “fast” alternative to house wrap. In the current climate of modern building I view this argument as redundant. Once any surface is penetrated with Fastners for siding and holes are introduced the static condition is compromised. Good craftsmanship goes a long way in insuring a well built home. What I have found out in my area is this. A very high percentage of builders and carpenters talk about subjects like these, and they can’t even read a framing square. Ask them to build a complete home from a stack of lumber, and they’re lost. Yet they give advice like this.
Matt, could you go over the structural aspects of Zip-R. I have heard, and also contemplated myself that you loose strength against twisting and racking due to the soft foam that the fastener must travel through between one material to another. Seems like it would allow the fasteners to bend easier. Thanks
I think I should make a detailed video on Zip-R. Anyone else want to see that?
You have to use the correct length nails and follow an increased nailing schedule. As always, proper installation is key.
@@buildshow yes please
@@buildshow That be great and compare to current exterior insulating systems.
Please do so!
Great video. We have had this debate going ever since the Zip system came out.
Matt keeps calling the Tyke video an ad, without mentioning that THIS VIDEO IS SPONSORED BY HUBER ZIP.
Patrick Hudson I believe that was added in response to criticism like this.
Will Pelton - how so buddy?
@@boobacockaa Tyvek got its reputation and hoopla based on lab tests. You cover a glass of water with a Tyvek sheet, band around the rim, invert glass, and Voila, no water drips out. Problem is, that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in real world usage and performance. EVERY fastener PUNCHES a hole in what is basically a rigid material (yes, it rolls up, but that is because it is thin; try stretching to test flexibility), and that material cannot contract or squeeze back around the body of the fastener to seal around it. In actual use, you have applied a perforated scrim over the sheathing, with consequent massive air leakage in the finished assembly. And, any moisture that gets behind the siding has a clear wicking path, along the fastener, to travel back into the warmer environment on the sheathing (and it does). Tyvek is used by cheap and greedy (mostly production) builders to demonstrate their concern for "Green" and "Quality". They know most consumers are clueless, and this is a money-maker for them (and a boon for the re-builders down the line). At this point in my 49 year building career, I will ONLY use a fully adhered, SELF-SEALING membrane over 100% of surfaces. And I sleep well at night.
So what? Was what he said true? This is what matters.
@@leestevens446 you seem to know what you're talking about and I was wondering what you would recommend. I live in Michigan and we are in climate zone 5 if that matters. I was going to use 5/8 plywood sheathing, 2" foam board insulation (deciding on which one is a whole different question), then Typar house wrap (Typar actually recommends using it over the foam and not between the sheathing and foam), then vinyl siding. Zip sheathing (or similar) with insulation already attached is also an option. After watching this video and reading your comment I now have my doubts on either system. What would you recommend? Thanks for your time.
Thank you Matt. Clarity and truth rocks.
So are cap fasteners still the go to for tyvek homeward?
A fair and balanced comparison....some things are just better than others.
We're all so sick of deliberately staged ads like this. Each system and each product has it's advantages.... No need to manufacture a situation (like comparing an overdriven fastener to not any fastener but NO fastener penetration). Just be honest.
volvo09 Please don't speak for everyone without consulting everyone! I, for one, appreciate a video like this which demonstrates the performance of various building products so I can properly evaluate which product I choose to use.
Rick Ammon if you’re basing product selections on these infomercials, stop.
@@Freespirit5371 well 65 ppl agree with him...ijs
@@mattbrew11 While I don't disagree that these videos are similar to infomercials they provide relevant information and gives a person a basis for further research. Some people who think they are smarter than others prefer to live life in an information bubble. Whereas I prefer to review as much information on a given subject as is available so I can evaluate the value and relevance of the information and then make an informed decision!
@@eyeswideshut2800 At this moment, 1,981 people gave the video a thumbs up while only 22 people gave the video a thumbs down!
Zip tape is great, has held on a few bumpers for me and others as well as motorcycle turn signals and such, besides its normal use of course
I've been framing for 42 years,
I've several homes where tyvex completely fails,
The only paper I've seen that can stand the test of time, is the black roofing type paper
I'd never use tyvex on my own house
Mark Creamer Ever worked with the zip stuff? What would you use for a new home?
For someone who's framed for 42 years, you don't seem to know much. The wrap is not "Tyvex" it is "Tyvek" made by Dupont and that black roof type paper is called "felt".
Kendro Dakota
Lol ,
I'd never use zip system either.. why is it that the plans never seem to account for the extra thickness of those panels?
@@willpelton1619 Zip system comes also with insulated backing options... 1/2" up to 2" I have used. The stuff is such a pain and if using 2" insulation version, now your sheeting nails are not optimally set into the framing.
Keep in mind there will be finished siding over either product which would keep most of the driven moisture out anyway. Price to the customer (installation & materials) is usually the deciding factor on which we use.
My understanding is that Tyvek allows the wall assembly to dry to the outside, does the zip system allow this too or does it trap moisture in the wall cavity?
Exactly my concern. Here in the hot humid south it is especially important. Matt is Zip truely vapor permeable? There is a lot talk about this. Once you use a fluid applied seal over the nail holes and seams how vapor permeable is Zip? I feel a vapor test needs to be done next episode!! Thanks Matt love the BuuuILD show!
being airtight ( if done properly - but you should assume that to any product when doing comparisons ) no it will not.
an air tight house needs a de-humidification system. zip doesn't let the water in to begin with. you control the inside air so that it doesn't matter.
Tyvek is loosely stapled to wood, Zip is called a system because it has 3 components that are bonded directly to one another: wood, rigid foam, and the green sheeting. To try and compare the 2 you would have to glue foam to wood then glue Tyvek to the foam. Foam needs to be sealed to protect it from any moisture penetration which is why the green cloth is bonded to the foam rather than being loosely stapled (same reason for it being bonded to the wood to prevent water getting behind the foam.) Some builders use Tyvek over rigid foam but either the foam has a face on it to protect against moisture or the builder applies a rolled/sprayed on moisture barrier before stapling the Tyvek on. Zip is superior in a scenario where you want rigid foam on the outside of the home. It combines 3 products into 1 saving time for builders.
Air and water tight does not mean vapor impermeable. Zip has a similar vapor permability to osb.