This is important, and I wish coaches would watch. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "One base on an overthrow!" They even try to pull out the rules to prove it. Last year, I had bases loaded when the catcher tried to pick the runner on third who had taken a large lead. There was no interference by the batter, but the catcher's throw hit the helmet of the runner as the runner was sliding back to third. The ball ricocheted into the dugout. Easy "Two-Base" award right? So, the runner on third scored, the runner on second scored, and the runner on first ended up at third. The coach lost his mind, saying, "One Base On An Overthrow!" He pulled up the rules on his phone, (I did not toss him), and I told him, "Its one base if the "pitcher" throws the ball into dead ball territory; two bases by an infielder." I also encouraged him to read it again, but it didn't change his mind, and he probably left the game thinking I cheated him. The point is that you never think these unusual situations will pop up, but as soon as you get too confident in that, you'll get something unusual.
In case play #8 OBR, (American Legion specifically), but all of you travel ball people who use OBR- it's one base from the time of pitch if detached equipment is used by this manner from the catcher.
As a plate umpire I say to my partner,” John, I have the ball.” Good communication reminder that the plate umpire has a ruling on a throw into dead ball territory. Many field umpires have their arms on the air yelling time. It’s not their responsibility.
First of all...I LOVE your videos. I've been watching them non-stop in preparation for my 7th season of High School umpiring. I've learned a lot, and you've clarified some things I didn't understand. Second, you're usually not funny. And that's ok. Your tone is pleasant and engaging, but not usually meant for humor. But I LAUGHED OUT LOUD at the end of Case Play #8. "Go ahead and record the situation for the ejection report." So awesome and true. The coach (and fans, players) are going to go NUTS!
Yeah. Ejection report! That's a very unfortunate situation that NFHS should correct. Also, after my horrible score on last week's quiz, it's nice to get 100 on this one. 😉
I like how Patrick recognizes that the coach will not know the rule, will lose his mind, and probably require an ejection. I don't see it as a "coaching" problem, and not an NFHS problem. Coaches need to know, and understand the rules at least as much as umpires. Last year, I worked with a very experienced umpire under the new pitching regulations. On the first pitch, the pitcher was in the set position with no one on base, but he did not stop. I called, "Time," and called the "Illegal Pitch," NO ONE ELSE KNEW THE RULE! Even the very experienced umpire I was working with was trying to use arguments like, "It's a "hybrid" stance." No, it wasn't. He was clearly in the set position. The concept of the hybrid stance is gone in NFHS. A pitcher is either in set or windup as determined by the position of his pivot foot, and the set position requires the pitcher always to stop before delivering the pitch by NFHS rules.
@@standyer7482the experienced umpire most likely doesn’t want to work with you again. There is no requirement to come set when there are zero base runners.
@@rayray4192 - I am glad you responded. No offense, but I believe you are wrong in regard to the pitcher not having to stop in the set position with no runners on base. By "Pro" rules, the pitcher does not have to stop, but by "NFHS" rules, he does. This is right from the book, "For the set position... The pitcher shall come to a complete and discernible stop with the ball in both hands in front of the body and the glove at or below the chin." I am open to rebuttal, and I am not afraid to be questioned. If you still think you are correct, please show me in the NFHS rules were it specifically states that the pitcher in set position does not have to stop before delivering the pitch if there is not runner on base. Please cite the exact rule, or comment with the number, and page of your citation. As for the coach not wanting to work with me, why do you believe he would not want to work with me?
With R1 on first, hard grounder to F6 turns to second to looks the runner back and throws to F3 for the out, but the ball gets past F3 and goes into deadball territory. Is looking R1 back concidered a first play?
Is the answer to case play #8 correct? Rule 5.06(b)(3)(E) states "...each runner may advance ONE base when: (E) a fielder touches a PITCHED ball with detached equipment." It is two bases for a thrown ball, one base for a pitched ball.
You are looking at an Official Rules book which applies for Major League Baseball. We are covering NFHS (high school) rules, which are most commonly used for youth baseball in the U.S.
@@UmpireClassroom That's helpful, thanks. Where I am youth baseball uses the OBR as the foundation, and we will have a much smaller set of rule deviations from OBR depending on the age level.
@@iane2046 It's very common. But, OBR really needs to be dropped for most youth baseball. OBR used to be more universal, but as MLB has added more advanced technology, and created many other rules specific to the high level of play, it doesn't fit well for a lot of youth baseball. That said, there is definitely areas NFHS should bring into conformity with OBR, such as this very play we are discussing IMO.
Patrick, I have a question. What is the preferred voicing and signals for an uncaught 3rd strike. Usually it's obvious....the batter swings and misses at a ball in the dirt, and everybody does what they're supposed to do. But what about a check-swing, or a ball that is not clear to everyone hit the ground? I've been saying something like "strike three, one the ground" and point to the ground toward where the ball went. But what's your take?
Hey Patrick....what is the proper mechanic for a b.r. who misses tiuching 1st base? Some umpires say U1 does nothing(no safe or out mechanic) and some umpires say to signal safe until the defense appeals. Just wondering because I get many conflicting opinions.
I thought it was 3 bases for using equipment: Rule 7.05b: "Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance three bases if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person." Saw this on a search: th-cam.com/video/iKxwSwHNI1w/w-d-xo.html Basically concluding: 1 base on a pitched ball, 2 bases on a thrown ball, 3 bases on a batted ball. I'm very confused now.
It is three bases for using equipment on a batted ball. The example for this would be an infielder throwing his glove in the air to knock down a line drive. This has actually happened in MLB.
You are correct for the OBR rule. This video is intended for the NFHS audience which clarifies the award is NOT "1-2-3" like in OBR. NFHS 8-3-3b states detached equipment violations are 3 bases on a batted ball (it could be four bases, under 8-3-3a if we judge it stopped a home run), or TWO bases if detached equipment contacts any thrown ball "including a pitch" per 8-3-3c(1). There is current no "one base award" for detached equipment under NFHS.
th-cam.com/video/_M4X5J4rIzE/w-d-xo.html (2015) LA at OAK- kershaw once spiked a ball and fired it into his own dugout. as far as i can tell, nobody called time and i always wondered why the batter wasnt given second base (or maybe even third) on it.
I’ve never heard of the mechanic you show Patrick. There is no rotation when the ball remains in the infield. Just because U-1 positions himself in foul territory to make a call at first base does not mean he doesn’t have responsibility for batter/ runner into second base. U-1 must run to the back of the mound and get set for a play at second base.
This is the MiLB crew of 2-mechanic. If U1 goes into foul territory and the throw gets past F3, there is no chance that U1 will get into any position for a call at second. They will start behind the runner and will be looking up the back of the play. PU will get a better angle.
I find your way works best. I am not a fan of NFHS mechanics. I prefer PBUC mechanics, but I find that one instruction, "Keep Your Eyes Everlastingly On The Ball" is the best overall mechanic anyone can use. When it comes down to it, it will usually be more important to be in good position to see a particular play rather to be absolutely certain any of the umpires on the field is in the exact position prescribed by any mechanic. I've worked with old guys who could not run well, and spent the entire game either in "B," or "C" position in a two-man crew. It is good to know, and use the mechanics as trained, but it is also good to be adaptable, and to work as a team. @@UmpireClassroom
@@tomn4993 interesting, thank you. Never seen it taught anywhere. It can work but forever the axiom has always been that there is no rotation when the ball remains in the infield. No umpire camp I have attended has ever taught this mechanic. Legendary MLB umpire John McSherry said many times,” Get back, get back to the back of the mound.” As a field umpire in the scenario described I’m making a dynamic move to the back of the mound. I’m not making my plate umpire go to second base on a ground ball. But there are different ways to umpire. I was shocked to hear this mechanic from Patrick. Perhaps it’s a regional mechanic.
@@UmpireClassroom thanks Patrick. Angle over distance. U-1 can go to the back of the mound. If it’s minor league protocol I submit to their wisdom. I never ever heard of this mechanic. It’s why I listen to you - to learn.
I laughed out loud when you said record the situation for the ejection report you will fill out. I’m not enforcing a two base award for detached equipment after a pitch. I don’t like people laughing at me. I have a bumper sticker that reads,”’Question Authority.” The Feds. in Indianapolis don’t get to force me to pick up the shitty end of the stick.
No offense, but it's rogue umpires like you who make it tough on others. You do it your own way with your own rules, and then the next guy who does it right has to answer all the questions you left behind.
@@standyer7482 you pick up the shitty end of the stick by awarding R-2 home plate when a catcher reaches over with his mask and touches a pitched ball. I’m not a rogue umpire. The Federation buffoons are rogue rules makers.
@@standyer7482 you don’t have the power to offend me nor are you trying to offend me sir. You call this shit and you make it difficult for an umpire with common sense.
I have no intention of offending you, but I would like to see you understand that you ARE the shitty end of the stick. By refusing to enforce the rules that are written, you are handing off that shitty stick to every umpire who comes after you, and is only applying the rules as written with no knowledge of which ones you chose to apply, and which ones you chose to ignore. @@rayray4192
@@rayray4192 So ... what you are saying is that if we as umpires think a rule is a bad rule, we can simply refuse to enforce it and enforce our own vision of what the rule should be. That approach may work where you officiate but it won't work in my state. If we choose to only award one base for touching a ball with detached equipment and the coach complains to the state, we WILL get a call from our state supervisor of baseball officials and will probably get a one or two week vacation from working games. Come to think of it, I like your approach. At my next game, I'm going to change the rule that defines the strike zone and make it so that any pitch that leaves the pitcher's hand is a strike no matter where it goes.
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LOL!!!....Loved the ending!!! Impending 'ejection report' .....so true!!!!!
This is important, and I wish coaches would watch. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "One base on an overthrow!" They even try to pull out the rules to prove it. Last year, I had bases loaded when the catcher tried to pick the runner on third who had taken a large lead. There was no interference by the batter, but the catcher's throw hit the helmet of the runner as the runner was sliding back to third. The ball ricocheted into the dugout. Easy "Two-Base" award right? So, the runner on third scored, the runner on second scored, and the runner on first ended up at third. The coach lost his mind, saying, "One Base On An Overthrow!" He pulled up the rules on his phone, (I did not toss him), and I told him, "Its one base if the "pitcher" throws the ball into dead ball territory; two bases by an infielder." I also encouraged him to read it again, but it didn't change his mind, and he probably left the game thinking I cheated him.
The point is that you never think these unusual situations will pop up, but as soon as you get too confident in that, you'll get something unusual.
He literally heard the phrase “One base on an overthrow,” when playing coach pitch and has held on to that ever since…
A lot of coaches and players go by what they've heard, or what they've been told. I hear, "Tie goes to the runner" a lot, too. @@UmpireClassroom
Good job. Did he bring a rule book onto the field? Do you think doing so is an immediate ejection?
He used his smart phone.@@rayray4192
I'm not quick to eject anyone. I know some guys who would eject for such a simple act, but, at most, I would probably issue a warning.@@rayray4192
In case play #8 OBR, (American Legion specifically), but all of you travel ball people who use OBR- it's one base from the time of pitch if detached equipment is used by this manner from the catcher.
As a plate umpire I say to my partner,” John, I have the ball.” Good communication reminder that the plate umpire has a ruling on a throw into dead ball territory. Many field umpires have their arms on the air yelling time. It’s not their responsibility.
Another excellent video with exceptional explanations and case plays. We need you guys. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for watching and supporting!
First of all...I LOVE your videos. I've been watching them non-stop in preparation for my 7th season of High School umpiring. I've learned a lot, and you've clarified some things I didn't understand.
Second, you're usually not funny. And that's ok. Your tone is pleasant and engaging, but not usually meant for humor. But I LAUGHED OUT LOUD at the end of Case Play #8. "Go ahead and record the situation for the ejection report." So awesome and true. The coach (and fans, players) are going to go NUTS!
Yeah. Ejection report! That's a very unfortunate situation that NFHS should correct. Also, after my horrible score on last week's quiz, it's nice to get 100 on this one. 😉
Changing this specific rule to make it a one-base award is on our list of recommended rule changes!
I like how Patrick recognizes that the coach will not know the rule, will lose his mind, and probably require an ejection. I don't see it as a "coaching" problem, and not an NFHS problem. Coaches need to know, and understand the rules at least as much as umpires. Last year, I worked with a very experienced umpire under the new pitching regulations. On the first pitch, the pitcher was in the set position with no one on base, but he did not stop. I called, "Time," and called the "Illegal Pitch," NO ONE ELSE KNEW THE RULE! Even the very experienced umpire I was working with was trying to use arguments like, "It's a "hybrid" stance." No, it wasn't. He was clearly in the set position. The concept of the hybrid stance is gone in NFHS. A pitcher is either in set or windup as determined by the position of his pivot foot, and the set position requires the pitcher always to stop before delivering the pitch by NFHS rules.
@@standyer7482the experienced umpire most likely doesn’t want to work with you again. There is no requirement to come set when there are zero base runners.
obr: no, nfhs: yes@@rayray4192
@@rayray4192 - I am glad you responded. No offense, but I believe you are wrong in regard to the pitcher not having to stop in the set position with no runners on base. By "Pro" rules, the pitcher does not have to stop, but by "NFHS" rules, he does. This is right from the book, "For the set position... The pitcher shall come to a complete and discernible stop with the ball in both hands in front of the body and the glove at or below the chin." I am open to rebuttal, and I am not afraid to be questioned. If you still think you are correct, please show me in the NFHS rules were it specifically states that the pitcher in set position does not have to stop before delivering the pitch if there is not runner on base. Please cite the exact rule, or comment with the number, and page of your citation.
As for the coach not wanting to work with me, why do you believe he would not want to work with me?
Thank you for the videos. You do a great job with teaching us.
Thanks for watching and supporting!
With R1 on first, hard grounder to F6 turns to second to looks the runner back and throws to F3 for the out, but the ball gets past F3 and goes into deadball territory. Is looking R1 back concidered a first play?
Is the answer to case play #8 correct? Rule 5.06(b)(3)(E) states "...each runner may advance ONE base when: (E) a fielder touches a PITCHED ball with detached equipment." It is two bases for a thrown ball, one base for a pitched ball.
You are looking at an Official Rules book which applies for Major League Baseball.
We are covering NFHS (high school) rules, which are most commonly used for youth baseball in the U.S.
@@UmpireClassroom That's helpful, thanks. Where I am youth baseball uses the OBR as the foundation, and we will have a much smaller set of rule deviations from OBR depending on the age level.
@@iane2046 It's very common. But, OBR really needs to be dropped for most youth baseball. OBR used to be more universal, but as MLB has added more advanced technology, and created many other rules specific to the high level of play, it doesn't fit well for a lot of youth baseball.
That said, there is definitely areas NFHS should bring into conformity with OBR, such as this very play we are discussing IMO.
Patrick, I have a question. What is the preferred voicing and signals for an uncaught 3rd strike. Usually it's obvious....the batter swings and misses at a ball in the dirt, and everybody does what they're supposed to do. But what about a check-swing, or a ball that is not clear to everyone hit the ground? I've been saying something like "strike three, one the ground" and point to the ground toward where the ball went. But what's your take?
I say "strike three, no catch" and give the safe motion with my arms.
Hey Patrick....what is the proper mechanic for a b.r. who misses tiuching 1st base? Some umpires say U1 does nothing(no safe or out mechanic) and some umpires say to signal safe until the defense appeals. Just wondering because I get many conflicting opinions.
If there is a play you still signal safe. The only time we make no signal on a play without touching is at the plate.
@@UmpireClassroom Thank You!!
I believe you signal safe, but then if the defensive team appeals that he missed the base, then he is called out.
@@basketball9013 Thank You!!
I thought it was 3 bases for using equipment:
Rule 7.05b: "Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance three bases if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person."
Saw this on a search: th-cam.com/video/iKxwSwHNI1w/w-d-xo.html
Basically concluding: 1 base on a pitched ball, 2 bases on a thrown ball, 3 bases on a batted ball.
I'm very confused now.
It is three bases for using equipment on a batted ball. The example for this would be an infielder throwing his glove in the air to knock down a line drive. This has actually happened in MLB.
You are correct for the OBR rule. This video is intended for the NFHS audience which clarifies the award is NOT "1-2-3" like in OBR. NFHS 8-3-3b states detached equipment violations are 3 bases on a batted ball (it could be four bases, under 8-3-3a if we judge it stopped a home run), or TWO bases if detached equipment contacts any thrown ball "including a pitch" per 8-3-3c(1). There is current no "one base award" for detached equipment under NFHS.
th-cam.com/video/_M4X5J4rIzE/w-d-xo.html
(2015) LA at OAK- kershaw once spiked a ball and fired it into his own dugout. as far as i can tell, nobody called time and i always wondered why the batter wasnt given second base (or maybe even third) on it.
I’ve never heard of the mechanic you show Patrick. There is no rotation when the ball remains in the infield. Just because U-1 positions himself in foul territory to make a call at first base does not mean he doesn’t have responsibility for batter/ runner into second base. U-1 must run to the back of the mound and get set for a play at second base.
This is the MiLB crew of 2-mechanic. If U1 goes into foul territory and the throw gets past F3, there is no chance that U1 will get into any position for a call at second. They will start behind the runner and will be looking up the back of the play. PU will get a better angle.
I find your way works best. I am not a fan of NFHS mechanics. I prefer PBUC mechanics, but I find that one instruction, "Keep Your Eyes Everlastingly On The Ball" is the best overall mechanic anyone can use. When it comes down to it, it will usually be more important to be in good position to see a particular play rather to be absolutely certain any of the umpires on the field is in the exact position prescribed by any mechanic. I've worked with old guys who could not run well, and spent the entire game either in "B," or "C" position in a two-man crew. It is good to know, and use the mechanics as trained, but it is also good to be adaptable, and to work as a team. @@UmpireClassroom
Our association teaches the mechanic just as Patrick describes.
@@tomn4993 interesting, thank you. Never seen it taught anywhere. It can work but forever the axiom has always been that there is no rotation when the ball remains in the infield. No umpire camp I have attended has ever taught this mechanic. Legendary MLB umpire John McSherry said many times,” Get back, get back to the back of the mound.” As a field umpire in the scenario described I’m making a dynamic move to the back of the mound. I’m not making my plate umpire go to second base on a ground ball. But there are different ways to umpire. I was shocked to hear this mechanic from Patrick. Perhaps it’s a regional mechanic.
@@UmpireClassroom thanks Patrick. Angle over distance. U-1 can go to the back of the mound. If it’s minor league protocol I submit to their wisdom. I never ever heard of this mechanic. It’s why I listen to you - to learn.
I laughed out loud when you said record the situation for the ejection report you will fill out. I’m not enforcing a two base award for detached equipment after a pitch. I don’t like people laughing at me. I have a bumper sticker that reads,”’Question Authority.” The Feds. in Indianapolis don’t get to force me to pick up the shitty end of the stick.
No offense, but it's rogue umpires like you who make it tough on others. You do it your own way with your own rules, and then the next guy who does it right has to answer all the questions you left behind.
@@standyer7482 you pick up the shitty end of the stick by awarding R-2 home plate when a catcher reaches over with his mask and touches a pitched ball. I’m not a rogue umpire. The Federation buffoons are rogue rules makers.
@@standyer7482 you don’t have the power to offend me nor are you trying to offend me sir. You call this shit and you make it difficult for an umpire with common sense.
I have no intention of offending you, but I would like to see you understand that you ARE the shitty end of the stick. By refusing to enforce the rules that are written, you are handing off that shitty stick to every umpire who comes after you, and is only applying the rules as written with no knowledge of which ones you chose to apply, and which ones you chose to ignore. @@rayray4192
@@rayray4192 So ... what you are saying is that if we as umpires think a rule is a bad rule, we can simply refuse to enforce it and enforce our own vision of what the rule should be. That approach may work where you officiate but it won't work in my state. If we choose to only award one base for touching a ball with detached equipment and the coach complains to the state, we WILL get a call from our state supervisor of baseball officials and will probably get a one or two week vacation from working games. Come to think of it, I like your approach. At my next game, I'm going to change the rule that defines the strike zone and make it so that any pitch that leaves the pitcher's hand is a strike no matter where it goes.