Black Locost: hands down best outdoor wood. When the Archeologists excavated the Jamestown, VA site, they found sound B L foundation timbers. Grows fast but does not necessarily die young. Unless it grew in forest ,tight light conditions, or was pruned while young itmay be be knotty On well drained loamy soils grows to 100' and lives over100 years. I have many such trees in my woodlot. In addition its a Nitrogen fixer so other hardwoods love to grow around its roots and the leaves are high N too. I have wagons with 2" planks with no rot after 30 years outdoors with no preservatives.
I wears out a saw blade 2x as fast, but it is extremely strong and lasts almost forever. It and Sassafras could completely eliminate the treated lumber industry.
@garagedreams4391 a guy outside of town had a bunch of big black locust. Some were almost 3' across at the base. Tornado came through about 10 years ago and broke the tops out of most of them. Another guy about 3 miles from me lost several nice locusts due to inline winds last summer. They were about 2' across, and were up rooted.
I just rebuilt a deck that I built 30 years ago with WRC that was never coated with a finish. The surface was roughened, but after removing 1/8" with a planer, the underlying wood was as good as 30 years ago. Also, I made a garden bench from Douglas fir and charred it (shou sugi ban) and scrubbed it hard with a wire brush. It's been on the front porch for about 10 years and is in good shape.
I knew there would be some species I would miss, but mentioning them here in the comments helps others to find a possibility I also do not know about. Thank for the comment!
@@mrniusi11 I've never seen Black Locust for sale anywhere, but I don't get to hardwood dealers very often. In my opinion, it's not good for much besides fence posts and outdoor furniture. It's rough, knotty, and hard to machine and glue because it's so hard and dense. It grows fast and dies young so they don't get that big, so I can't imagine getting decent lumber out of one.
Early American Settlers used black locust to build the settlements. Also, in the 1800s America naval ships were built with black locust nails. They were more durable than their British counterparts and enabled the Americans to defeat the British at Plattsburg Bay during the War of 1812.
A note on Yaki Sugi. The side of the plank closer to the center of the tree is the side you burn. That's the side a Japanese carpenter will have facing out on siding, because the side of the plank closer to the bark is the side that will cup. If it cups, they want the edges of the plank to pull closer to the building. If the bark side is out and it cups, the edges will try to pull away from the building, possibly leading to moisture or wind getting behind the plank. (On the interior of the building, the bark side is facing the interior because it's normally the better looking side.) Oh, and the Japanese guys who do the burning will tell you you burn it until you think you've ruined it. Haha. Since "Sugi" is cedar you have BBQ Pine. Maybe Sugi Matsu depending on the species.
That is so interesting, thanks for the insight on this. much appreciated and don't forget to hit that sub button! I will be mentioning this to my local customers who ask us about lumber that is needed for a similar solution.
Also, Japanese "Cedar" is Cryptomeria japonica. Completely unlike aromatic cedars we think of in the western world. It's a white wood, quite dense. For reference, Eastern White Pine's Janka hardness rating is 380 lbf, Southern Yellow Pine is 870 and Japanese Cedar is 1,500 lbf. It works similarly with hand tools to Hard Maple, which is 1,450 lbf (I.e. rarely splinters and shaves beautifully with sharp chisel & plane blades).
Gotta be honest, all of my Ummm’s and Uhhh’s are edited out. Trying to make better videos and this is a good start. Thanks for the comment and the feedback! Believe me, it is much appreciated.
My dad, former Coast Guard, and a bunch of his buddies hand-built a replica 18th Century 3 masted tall ship out of white oak back in 1968. It's still sailing just fine.
This is very interesting. I needed a long straight piece of strong wood to reinforce fence and I happened to have a 8 ft white oak 1x2 that I didn’t have a use for. It’s been out in the rain and sun for 8 plus yrs and it’s grey and dirty but still straight and square. I didn’t realize white oak was any different from red oak. Lots of pallets are made of various oaks and they are very tough. There’s one variety we call swamp oak because of how it smells when you saw it. I am rebuilding a garden seat and will use white oak for that!
@@davidsamsonite5791 Swamp White Oak will grow around swamps, along with Swamp Maple/Red Maple. I just planted a Swamp White Oak, partly because it was available at a Lowe's store, and they transplant easier than regular White Oak.
I am building two Adirondack chairs with white oak. The wood is very dense and heavy. I decided to make the chairs with white oak because I worked in the railroad industry for twenty-one years. The best wood railroad ties are made from white oak. The railroad ties lasted thirty years, even in a salty air environment. A word of caution for any woodworker working with white oak is to be sure to pre-drill prior to driving screws. If not, the screws will snap, especially if using stainless steel screws. Coating the screw threads with wax will also help the screws thread into the wood more easily. As someone commented. White oak has become extremely expensive. The lumber for the two chairs cost me over $500 two years ago.
Bro thanks so much for popping in on my latest video , I subscribed to your channel when I found it earlier this year ! Love the content very informative and important info you’re sharing 🎉
The west coast Indians used that burn method as well, mostly with split cedar planks and would stick the ends in the fire since end grain is where most of the checking/splitting happens first.... Also, from the mid west farmers (I grew up in Misery), "A black locust fence post will wear out one fence post hole. An osage orange fence post will wear out 2 fence post holes". The locust is ideal for split rail fences, depending on how much you have around....
I use Sapele, (African Mahogany) for my outdoor projects. Lasts for many years. Vertical grain, clear, all heart Redwood works great too. (now very expensive) I've had good success with Cyprus and White Oak.
I’ve used thermally modified lumber with great results. It’s burning it without the bunt. I’ve also used white oak. Both are beautiful and long lasting.
Heat Treated (HT) is what a lot of skid material is going to in order to get away from the chemicals. It can be really beautiful tho definitely not cheap.
You spend your life addicted to drugs and alcohol. (Don't do that by the way) get sober, pound down a bunch of donuts and sugar. Get 5 years of sobriety under your belt, do absolutely NOTHING to lose the weight you gained while first getting sober. Then you grab a camera, grow a silly mustache, and BAM.. you're in!
Thank You Juan! Check out our video about the Best Finish for Outdoor Wood Projects, natural followup to this video: th-cam.com/video/uJjrRxYolNc/w-d-xo.html
Fun video. Thanks kindly for making it. Another couple adds about yakisugi (sorry if they're repeats, I only ctrl+f'd through the first load of comments). - The "sugi" in yakisugi is the specific Japanese cedar traditionally used, but you're right that the process can basically be used on any variety. Guessing the benefit of thujaplicin stacks nicely as a second line of defense behind the charred skin. - The char is inherently rot and bug resistant as it has little nutritional value for fungi and pests who aren't willing to eat through it to reach the unburned wood, but I believe it's usually still sealed with a lacquer to repel water. Charcoal has a very fine, porous/spongy form that is actually great for holding water (think biochar). - As I've seen and tried a few times, the triangular tube is stood up on end, slightly leaning on something tall and a small fire is lit at the bottom. This reduces the amount of kindling you need and uses a bit of a rocket/chimney effect, pulling air up through the fire at the bottom while the wood itself becomes the main fuel for the burn. It's really quite dramatic seeing the fire erupt out of the top. Kind of a good demonstration of why those of us who still use chimneys want to avoid a creosote fire :D
I helped my dad paint poplar lumber with used motor oil on a fence (not the posts mind you) he was building 35 years ago. That fence has been painted with used oil four times since and nearly every board is still sound. The few that rotted I believe were just too near the bark.
@kandjlumber Mr. My name is Melinda! I came across this video about 2 weeks ago and LOVE IT, THANK YOU FOR POSTING!❤❤ But there were no place for me to put my own comment. So, here I am under this man's comment. Thank You Man!😊😊 I AM A SUBSCROBER. IT POPPED AHAIN TODAY. Your in Minnesota while I'm in Alabama. I can get cedar here. It grows right down the road. I don't know white kind it is but I'm thinking of building a hot tub with it. What do you think? I own a Sailboat and know all about Varnishes, Epoxy. Polyresin....Fiberglass! LOL. ✝️🙏❤️🇺🇸
Hi Melinda! Super great to see women on our channel as well! Any type of “cedar” has those natural oils that repel bugs/mold etc. so I would think you’re safe. Now it’s not professional advice, build at your own risk. Also the Cedar I was mentioning in this video was Western Red, which only grows on the west coast. More likely you’re seeing Eastern Red Cedar “aromatic cedar”. Thanks for the comment and sub. Good luck!
@kandjlumber yes, it's Eastern Red and smells wonderful, so I am just going to polyresin the inside!! And keep it out of this Alabama sun! When I can't smell it anymore, well, I'll bust out my pall sander with some 220 grit paper and likely sand it! LOL. THANKS FOR RESPONDING! ✝️ 🙏 ❤️ 🇺🇸
Great choice, I built two Adirondack about 15 -20 years ago out of white oak and they've held up quite well sitting outside in Michigan year-round without any finish. To be a fair a few of the individual boards show some rot, but 95% of them look great. Love the channel, btw.
15-20 years? Those chairs are practically vintage! If it were a vehicle you could almost register them as an antique here in MN. My mother made an Adirondack chair back in the day out of nostalgia for her younger years living in Syracuse NY and visiting the Adirondack Mountains on vacation. I remember those chairs being wildly comfortable too.
@@kandjlumber No, I lost count of the things done right in building that video and if the length is a negative, the amount of useful info and the presentation pace more than counter it...
@@kandjlumber I guess it did come off as sarcastic, was meant as humor though very much enjoy your presentation style and the background info is also good knowledge. Keep doing what you’re doing and much luck in growing your channel.
I live on the Oregon coast.we have port orford cedar and western red and the port orford is the best which is a cypress actually..there's fishing boats 100 years old still in service made of port orford cedar.
Black Locust trees are fast growing and have a dense heavy wood. Very durable. When young they have thorns but as they get older they don't. The seeds from pods germinate naturally. I was thinning a stand out and used as fence posts. Heavy and seem to be very rot resistant. Introduced to my land, I am amazed at the extreme weather conditions Black Locust can tolerate. My area -30F to 105F
Nice video, burning the wood really does work!. When I was a kid my dad pulled some red cedar gate posts out of the ground in a coral that had been buried well over 30 years. The surface of the buried post had been burnt and it looked just as good as the day it went into the ground. Depending on the soil and ground moisture 10-12 years would have been about the maximum life expectancy of a red cedar post in our area.
❤ Locast and Himlock for outdoors its what the old timers used last a very long time 😊 But guess its according to what you are building and if its covered or not
You know, I'll bet you never would have guessed you would be making videos 20 years ago! Look at those subscribers! Now, I'm hundreds of miles away from you but just look at what I've learned. TH-cam is such an amazing thing. This would have take hours of research at a megacity library. And here it is right in my hands. And you're so entertaining you should be on SNL or Jay Leno Show..if there was a Jay Leno show. So, now I'm a Lumber Jack and I'm okay!
Ya know, 20 years ago I probably thought I’d be dead by now in my addictions. Being a musician and a love for podcasts in the early years I knew I’d be some sort of Showman. Thanks for the comment brother!
I “sorta” knew about this already, but it wasn’t until doing the research for this video that I realized how awesome it was. Might do a video that delves deeper into this subject. Thanks for the comment Brother!
There’s definitely a lot more that you could learn, and it’s very interesting. A few things I’ve learned. 1. Huge difference between using green lumber and dried lumber. If it’s green, you can watch the sap bleed out of the pores. 2. When you char it, if you work from one end to the other in the direction of the flame, you will preheat the wood before the intense fire ever gets there. Gotta get the sap out to be done. 3. Only move as fast as completing the char takes. It’s more than a surface treatment. It is actually changing part of the wood structure; the part that bugs like to eat. 4. Definitely get rid of the excess char. All it does after the fact is make a mess. The char can be brushed away, but we like to use a power washer, but be careful how close you get. You can remove most of the darkness - remember, it’s a matter of changing the wood more than the exterior char - and it leaves an interesting coloring with the wood grain. 5. Definitely recommend using a diluted linseed oil finish to give it a little nicer finish and water repellency. Super easy to apply. Wipe on. Wipe off excess in 10-20 minutes then lay out the rags to dry. They will ignite if not laid out. One downside to HT is that the wood becomes more brittle so the structural capacity has to be reduced if it is being used structurally.
Another possibility is torrefied or "toasted" wood. It is wood that has been kiln dried at a higher temperature than usual, almost to the point of burning it. I've seen maple and ash, but I'm guessing many species would work. The wood becomes much darker in color and lighter in weight, and is much more rot resistant and no longer appealing to insects. I have some torrefied maple that looks like walnut and has the weight of pine or cedar.
I heard of Kelo wood which is wood from pine trees that have been standing dead for hundreds of years in europe and the wood has a golden color like the torrified wood used for guitars. Its widely used for saunas due it it being odorless and not taking on any water and therefore rot resistant.
Bodark or "Osage Orange" best outdoor wood, provided you work it while it's still green. Once it cures, good luck working with it. It will not rot but petrifies. Burning method has been around for a long time. Steel wool works wonders at cleaning up the "burn".
Thanks for the comment and the heads up on Osage Orange. comments like these help other people who watch this video to find the lumber they could use in their local area. Good tip btw.. work it green or you might as well be trying to carve a dinosaur bone later! 😂 don't forget to hit that subscribe button! we are doing a giveaway to our subs on an upcoming video.
One comment about white oak and stainless steel fasteners, white oak and stainless can react to each other. The preferred fastener for White oak is silicon bronze. I am a classic boat restorer. There is a chemical reaction between the White oak and stainless steel.
@@johnlogan8218 it just rots. It sucks in moisture. And if it is wet when it freezes.. the wood fibers get crushed and rot occurs very quickly. Red oak has to be in used in a dry environment. Not good in bathrooms either. White oak is so much better in a damp environment.
Pressure treated is ok but will rot quicker than you think when it's on the ground. However they do make a ground contact lumber. but you can only find wood that is specially labeled ground contact at home Depot in our area. Lowe's does not seem to carry it here.
If breathing in cedar sawdust is a potential problem, I would assume that you should wear a mask when cutting *any* wood. It’s not like other types don’t make sawdust.
lots of really great information. this guy knows what he's talking about. i'm a little disappointed you didin't mention black locust (stuff lasts forever) or hemlock (very cheap and decent rot resistance).
Yeah, Black Locust and also Osage Orange to name a few are some species that are frequently mentioned in the comments section of this video, in fact, there are some sub-comments with some really good honorable mentions.
White oak is an excellent choice. A HARD wood with an eastern white oak, fine grain, you can bounce cannon balls off it,,, literally. The USS Constitution, still commissioned and floating in Boston Harbor 200 plus years,, nicknamed "Old Iron Sides" Because iron cannon balls DID bounce off its sides in battle. Eastern white oak can dull aluminum oxide sanding belts. Yep. Another excellent choice for exterior use,, maybe better than white oak,, but expensive. Black walnut. I know of a mailbox post that is now 50 years old. Lost ts bark recently. It will be there another 50 years.
That acid is in a plant Redwood Sorrel, looks like three leaf clover, said to be sour, i think it taste lemonny. Oxalic acid. The Cowlitz , ate leaves, said to potentially be harmful. I nibled but really never consumed much.
Hey Kyle, and thank you algorithm...I'm still a bit puzzled about how I found myself here searching for a client's question about router bits!...LOL!!! I should first establish my background. I am a traditional and natural builder with four decades of experience focused exclusively on stone, timber, clay, and textiles in the context of vernacular architectural methods. My expertise lies primarily in wood joinery, utilizing timber and stone, as well as other natural materials such as clay. Additionally, I am a Sawyer, Arborist, and Naturalist. I found your presentation style and the information you shared to be highly engaging. Excellent work! This commendation comes from someone with considerable experience who holds strong opinions regarding the prevalence of misinformation on platforms like TH-cam. Several key points from your discussion may prove beneficial for future reference. Pressure-treated wood (PT wood) does not justify its expense when considering human safety, environmental impact, and true durability, which often appears more as marketing than substantive fact. Plastic composite wood, while versatile, cannot be classified as sustainable. It significantly contributes to the proliferation of microplastics and poses similar hazards to those associated with pressure-treated lumber. As for cedar, it is important to note to viewers and clients just like you did (WELL DONE!!!) that true cedar is not found in North America. Instead, we have cypress, junipers, and arborvitae despite the common misnomer that refers to them as cedar in most regions. Hemlock too is often used like these other species and is virtually as decay resistant in most varieties... Your recommendation of white oak (or related species in that group like chestnut, post, live, etc) is excellent. And in many (most?) areas it will always be less expensive than what folks are calling "cedar" and actually more durable over time... Your mention of a..."charring method"...is outstanding and all wood species can benefit from this if done properly. It is important to recognize that the application of "Shou Sugi Ban" to any type of wood is not feasible, as this term is not real and has been "made up" by Westerners to market products and to cultivate a perception of knowledge they don’t actually have and a proficiency in traditional wood charring techniques that is also erroneous. The Japanese people are widely recognized for their courteous demeanor and a tendency to avoid correcting individuals when terminology is improperly applied. Nonetheless, it is crucial to acknowledge that they experience discomfort when their cultural traditions are inaccurately portrayed or misconstrued by outsiders. Their traditional technique of charring wood, referred to as "Yakesugi" (焼杉), is specifically designed for particular varieties of cypress and analogous woods indigenous to the Nihon Rettō and Ryukyu Archipelago, along with their associated woodcraft traditions. There are various techniques used in Japan to char wood that may be adapted to other species. The term "Yaki" (焼) encompasses a range of meanings such as burnt, fried, grilled, or heat-treated, serving as a general descriptive term. On the other hand, "Sugi" (杉) specifically refers to "cypress," particularly the Cryptomeria japonica variety or related species. Additionally, "Ita" (板) translates to plank or board. Therefore, the term "yakisugi-ita" (焼杉板) can be translated into English as "heat-treated cypress board" or "burnt plank of cedar." The method known as "Sumi tsuki" (炭付) or "with charcoal" involves a heavily burned-in process. Conversely, "Migaki" (磨き) and other similar methods are referred to as the "polishing" or smoothed-out techniques. "Bānā-yaki" (バーナー焼き) is more of a "flame painting" method. Lastly, akin to the "Sumi tsuki" (炭付) method, "Wani" (鰐) is a technique that results in a deep charring effect known as the "crocodile" effect. If you or your supporters have any more questions, feel free to ask about these awesome techniques for heat treating both green and dry wood. They’re great for making things look good and keeping them preserved. Also, Kyle, I totally agree with you about using plain old White Pine for outdoor projects. I build decks and outdoor furniture with it all the time. It can last just as long as treated wood if you use it right, plus it’s a sustainable option that you can usually find from local sawmills. It’s also way cheaper! I’ve even taken siding off old barns to make cabinets that were put up in the 1700s, and that wood has held up for over 300 years without rotting. The main reason wood decays is due to trapped moisture from poor design and modern plastic finishes. Plus, you don’t really need “dry wood” if you pay attention to the wood’s grain and the type of joinery you’re using. I mostly work with green lumber, from timber frames to furniture, and I don’t run into many problems. It’s all about having the right knowledge, not just whether it’s green or dry. Thanks again for the awesome channel and all the great info!
Holey Molee. A long a dedicated comment like this deserves a response. The most interesting point you made was the part about using green wood for any project as long as you pay attention to the grain and joinery. That is fascinating. I am not an expert by no means, I am learning like most in this comment section. And this is why I like the comments section, so we can all learn from each other. Thanks for the comment sir, it was extremely insightful.
@@kandjlumber After 4 decades Brother that was not even a whole cup of coffee drank...LOL...Just the "old stuff" rambling between the ears and accumulated info I use in my work and teaching...Glad you found it of use and value...I joined and looking forward to your future videos. The fact you present information as "I am learning" rather that "I'm knowing" is what I appreciated the most. WELL DONE!!! 👍
Great video, I wish I had this a few years ago when I bought expensive Covid priced cedar for the deck chairs.... yikes that was expensive. Even more so since I live in the prairies in Canada, no forests here and everything is shipped in. I'll be looking at white oak next time, and even here it is pretty cheap at times. All depends what the local lumber merchants get in. One wood I want to try but nobody seems to harvest and mill is Tamarack (also called Eastern Larch, Black Larch, Red Larch, or American Larch) since it grows in the northern treeline swamps of my province mixed in with pines and such. Most people use them for pulp or posts. It is nearly as rot and water resistant as cedar, but a much harder wood for making furniture out of. It sounds like the perfect middle ground between white oak and cedar, but I'll be damned if I can find any milled out to try although the places that do work it say it typically is only a bit more expensive then pine since they pull it out at the same time.
I am old enough to remember going to a real lumber yard with my dad. Young enough to never go to them myself. There is only 1 mill within realistic driving distance - they are very proud of their business & not nearly as knowledgeable as this guy. It would be great to have a local resource such as this businesses. Unfortunately, across all industries, these types of businesses are all but extinct it seems. Great vid.
Check out the history of Osage Orange. It used to grow from Florida through the Midwest up to Canada. They used to be used for fence posts. It has quickly became one of my favorite to work with.
I just had a guy call me recently say that he had an Osage Orange tree he wanted to get some custom sawing done on it. apparently it is super hard? I'll have to look into that.
@@kevinrich4637 I dulled a blade cutting a piece I found as a scrap offcut. It’s really awesome looking and is extremely hard. It reminds me of maple’s effects on blades.
White oak in Houston at Lowes is $4.00 a board foot for a 1x4. They don't sell anything bigger. So that wasn't any help. Cedar is also insanely expensive here.
Is that Kiln Dried White Oak you’re talking about? Or was it Rough Sawn fesh cut (green) white oak? Much cheaper, air drying takes forever but may work. Call your local sawmills if you have any in your area.
@@kandjlumber I’m in eastern Tennessee and the mills around here cedar is 1/3 the cost of green white oak. White oak is the second most expensive local wood next to black walnut
Even though I live in north Idaho where we have a big lumber industry we are getting gouged for pressure treated. I paid just over $51 for each 6x6x8 pressure treated post because it comes from Tacoma Washington where everything is expensive and over regulated. We have various pines and firs, western cedar, and tamarack, but we don't grow pressure treated here. Even though they mill it here cedar is cost prohibitive.
I paint my outdoor wood projects with Titebond III Waterproof Wood Glue. Then paint with Porch Paint. It makes the wood last a gazillion times longer ❗
@@kandjlumber Yes, I buy Titebond 3 by the gallon at Lowes. I apply it just like it were paint, with a brush or roller. Another thing I do, when needed, is roll on the Titebond 3 and, while it is still wet, sprinkle sand on it. This creates a slip-resistant surface and makes the glue impervious to UV light. If you want an ever stronger wood surface, lay down fiberglass cloth and paint it with Titebond 3 until saturated just like you do epoxy (for boat building, etc.). I built a garden cart and sealed the whole thing with Titebond 3, and applied fiberglass cloth to critical areas. That cart has been sitting out in the weather for about 10 years and shows zero signs of wood rot.
@@firecloud77 I restore wooden boats and am getting into furniture and you’re right, between titebond iii and epoxy, that’s all you need. White oak is also used in boats since forever and is a great wood for structural members.
Re: red oak pores, I made a board & batten door out of red oak once. When I applied the clamps to the batten, the glue was squeezing out directly through the board, through the large pores of the red oak. White oak is amazing stuff. I've only done a tiny bit with it (I'm barely a real hobbyist woodworker) but I hope to do some more with it in the future. White oak is amazingly strong (in general, though I'm sure not the strongest wood), and a friend who works at a sawmill says they (the sawmill) use it for the sides of trucks, etc, because it's so weather resistant.
We got alot of red ceder in missouri, sadly my buddy had a select cut on his property and took most the white oak. Really wanted to mill up white oak for siding.
That's what we call the "End Block" pile. it's the cutt-offs from when we square up our packs of pallet parts. We sell it to the public dirt cheap. Hope that helps Brother..
@@kandjlumber It does. And I’m glad you’re not burning it. I’d buy them all up and laminate or use for smaller projects since I’m big on using reclaimed/salvaged wood whenever possible. Just one more reason to move to MN, haha. Love the channel. Sorry my first comment probably came across as so self-interested. Cheers!
@@kandjlumber Here’s a sign I spent too much time on TH-cam: 1. I am already subscribed and 2. Knew you were referring to Jasper by the time I finished reading the word “guy.”
I've done it on Douglass fir 4x4s for a fence, then soaked in used motor oil. That was only three years ago, but they look good as the day I set them. @@kandjlumber
Here in california we call it 'western red cedar' cause that's all that's available (no eastern) and to an inexperienced eye might be mistaken for redwood other than the fact it has a wonderful smell when green. Western red cedar is rarely found around here because it comes mostly out of canada and is typically more expensive than redwood. Pencil cedar is native to the sierra nevadas here and is the little brother to redwood for outdoor use. Incense cedar has more peck than red cedar but is actually the most decay resistent portion of the tree so if the application isn't concerned about appearance pecky incense cedar would be a good outdoor choice if you can get your hands on it. Pecky cedar actually has a stylish look and with a light colored or clear treatment has a surprisingly nice look. Pecky cedar is considered a lower grade of lumber so the 'through peck' wont be sorted out.
If you built a pine privacy fence, say a board on board, 1x6, untreated, if you did this burn method would it last a long time like a treated pine fence?
Not as hard as White Oak so it is a little easier on your tools. It is known for taking a stain very well. And most cabinets/interior was made using it back in the 90’s, at least so in our area. 👍
LOL I thought you would say honey locust, which is a great choice in the appalachian forests. Watch out for the spikes. I have seen fence posts last 40+ years.
my immediate thought was untreated pine, at least for vertical pieces, it lasts that way for shingles. round here it's the right environment for it, but i'd never suggest it everywhere. roasted i hadn't thought of, but, i'd build a roaster with some old planer parts and offer it as a product, just run the boards through for hundreds of metres at a time.
@@kandjlumber well, i meant, i'd offer the roasted lumber as a product by adding the roaster to my mill, if i ever did more than wailing at a tree with an axe to see if i will die from exertion or not. it'd be an interesting addition to the selection of planed planks that some places sell. afaik roasted lumber used for guitar necks is just done in a high temp kiln, not one piece at a time.
Locust does not grow in our area, therefore I cannot speak on it as I have no experience with it. We did a custom job for a construction company last year that had won a bid for a local twin cities suburb, they were installing animal shaped pieces for a local park. Was pretty unique as they had to be cut in certain shapes etc. one of them was an alligator shape if I remember correctly. Thanks for the comment! Be sure to sub, and thanks again!
Yeah white oak is awesome. Red oak can rot within a year or so if you don't treat it. Even if it's off the ground. I built rails on a 4x8 trailer out of red oak barn wood. It didn't last a year but it wasn't green either....old barn wood. However I did make shop door out of it and rubbed burnt motor oil on it and it's been probably 7 years.
I do not have experience with Black Locust sorry, We only deal with local lumber species. This comment section has a lot of insight on species I haven't covered in this video though, might be worth it to look around..
i wanted to plant white oak at age 9. rough childhood got me searching. no body listened. they took away my books instead. yes throwing it in front of cars, i like it. the right car is a bonus.
Old growth red cedar is almost as rot resistant as redwood but lumber milled out of younger second growth is no more rot resistant than pine. A young cedar pole planted in the ground, untreated will rot off in a few years. Actually larch is more resistant than young cedar but is still not all that suitable for out doors.
Douglas fir is a good outdoor wood, but you should treat it with a water sealant, then paint it. Pressure treated lumber warps too much for external, decking, its okay for joists and posts. I regret using it as decking. After 2 years and good staining, it was so twisted and warped that I am going to replace it. From your video, I will see if Colorado has it and compare it to douglas fir.
Thanks so much for this primer on outdoor woods. I've used a lot of pressure treated posts but, hopefully not in locations where it may be hazardous (mostly posts in concrete). I do a lot of work with exterior woods for carvings. I always put exterior finishes on them to, hopefully, make them last longer. But I won't worry about it as we all grow old;-). What surprised me is that much of the wood I'm using (so far I get free large hunks of wood) is supposedly cedar. Now, I'm wondering if it's not cedar and less effective outdoors. I've done a lot of work with white oak and love it for furniture. It's just that I'll have to Pay for it;-( And learn how to carve it.
I have updated the site to reflect the logo in the video, and also a version that is brown. Give it a little bit and refresh if it isn't done clearing copyright yet. Design of hat was done by local company, but the one on the site has different colors to choose from. Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention and hope this works for you.
Great Video! I’m having a new deck built after a Mountainado trashed it. Our cabin is at 8500 ft elevation at the Colorado/Wyoming border. 300 day of sunshine, lots snow, Temperatures range from 90 degrees F down to -25f. Very low humidity. All that to ask recommendations on wood( White Oak? ) Also would the burning technique with proper safety precautions work AFTER the deck is built? Would it cause the deck planks to shrink or twist? Obviously a rookie here! Thx much ! Will
I do know that in our area (similar temps), we need to bury posts deeper because the freeze/thaw will cause the post to rise out of the ground more than warmer areas. We are in the process of doing a similar video on Ground Contact solutions. So keep your eye out for that. Also, one of our coworkers is going to use white oak to build a deck and may film that process as well. The burning process, this was the first time I (Kyle) has even tested this and haven’t used it on anything as of yet. There’s a bunch of videos out there by Yakisugi experts you can search and would fully trust their opinion over anything I could suggest. I am sorry this isn’t much help but I hope I could at least point you in the right direction.
About the only wood around here is spruce. Any other wood is running 12$ board foot and up. Plastc wood 2x6 x 16 is 86.00$ a board. Cedar is absolutely insane at 60$ a board foot. A 2x6 x 12 foot cedar board for a window sill cost me 600$. Spruce is it, and even at that its going to be real expensive to build anything. Exterior finish...... get a pressure sprayer and soak it with oil to make it last. Stain it first if you want colour. Paint holds the moisture and rots in a few years. Building with wood is not like it used to be 😢
Talk about GREEDY lumber sellers....$60/bdft for cedar 2x6 ?? $600 fir a 12' ?? Absolutely insane. You were totally ripped off. I live in SW Oregon....that board would likely be$20-$25 @ ANY lumberyard, $30-$40 @Home Depot or Lowe’s....and of questionable twist/straightness....big box crap lumber. But a $600 2x6 is HIGHWAY ROBBERY !!!!
I don't know what you're seeing, but white oak lumber has become super popular lately in building, and prices have skyrocketed. Up over three times value in the last year.
I (Kyle) have been known to look at candle charts within the stock market. The Ticker symbol LUMBER is a good indicator on the lumber market as a whole and looks to be a little higher than we'd like, but nowhere near as volatile, and as "a few years back". Since August of 2023, it bounced around from $480-ish to above $600. And now it is $514 per share. But we all know that what the stock market price is can be different than what big box, and other lumber suppliers will charge customers for lumber. Thanks for the comment and I hope to maybe do a video about this topic in greater detail at some point in the future if there is enough people asking for it. Don't forget to Subscribe, thanks again.
@@kandjlumber thank you for the detailed reply! I'm a cabinet maker in the Inland NW. I rarely see the log price charts, and obviously oak is not on them up here, but I get regular price lists from my wholesale lumber supplier. I just quoted a big job in white oak and was surprised by the price movements over the last year.
@benr8772 yeah again this is something, that as a sales guy, I should be tracking more but it is hard when only Big Box (and us) are the only ones publishing prices on the internet. We deal mainly in fresh cut rough sawn, and kiln dried finish grade so that kind of helps to narrow it down. But is still hard to track unless I call everyone local. Thanks again!
Check out our newest video: “the Best FINISH for Outdoor Wood Projects”. Like & Sub! link here: th-cam.com/video/uJjrRxYolNc/w-d-xo.html
White oak is great for building boats, as well.
Black Locost: hands down best outdoor wood. When the Archeologists excavated the Jamestown, VA site, they found sound B L foundation timbers. Grows fast but does not necessarily die young. Unless it grew in forest ,tight light conditions, or was pruned while young itmay be be knotty On well drained loamy soils grows to 100' and lives over100 years. I have many such trees in my woodlot. In addition its a Nitrogen fixer so other hardwoods love to grow around its roots and the leaves are high N too. I have wagons with 2" planks with no rot after 30 years outdoors with no preservatives.
Yes. I thought he was going there. I’m gunshots oak is 2X the price, or more.
Best fence post too, burns good for your wood stove.
I wears out a saw blade 2x as fast, but it is extremely strong and lasts almost forever. It and Sassafras could completely eliminate the treated lumber industry.
Mine are big and tall and don't blow down in hurricanes
@garagedreams4391 a guy outside of town had a bunch of big black locust. Some were almost 3' across at the base. Tornado came through about 10 years ago and broke the tops out of most of them. Another guy about 3 miles from me lost several nice locusts due to inline winds last summer. They were about 2' across, and were up rooted.
I just rebuilt a deck that I built 30 years ago with WRC that was never coated with a finish. The surface was roughened, but after removing 1/8" with a planer, the underlying wood was as good as 30 years ago.
Also, I made a garden bench from Douglas fir and charred it (shou sugi ban) and scrubbed it hard with a wire brush. It's been on the front porch for about 10 years and is in good shape.
Another hearty rot resistant wood we have in the Southeast is Black Locust. Makes great fence posts.
I knew there would be some species I would miss, but mentioning them here in the comments helps others to find a possibility I also do not know about. Thank for the comment!
Is black locust widely available? I believe had had some at our farm's forest area but not many. Seems rare when not planted on a fence row….
@@mrniusi11 I've never seen Black Locust for sale anywhere, but I don't get to hardwood dealers very often. In my opinion, it's not good for much besides fence posts and outdoor furniture. It's rough, knotty, and hard to machine and glue because it's so hard and dense. It grows fast and dies young so they don't get that big, so I can't imagine getting decent lumber out of one.
Early American Settlers used black locust to build the settlements. Also, in the 1800s America naval ships were built with black locust nails. They were more durable than their British counterparts and enabled the Americans to defeat the British at Plattsburg Bay during the War of 1812.
Hard wood. I've had sparks appear while chainsawing it.
A note on Yaki Sugi. The side of the plank closer to the center of the tree is the side you burn. That's the side a Japanese carpenter will have facing out on siding, because the side of the plank closer to the bark is the side that will cup. If it cups, they want the edges of the plank to pull closer to the building. If the bark side is out and it cups, the edges will try to pull away from the building, possibly leading to moisture or wind getting behind the plank. (On the interior of the building, the bark side is facing the interior because it's normally the better looking side.)
Oh, and the Japanese guys who do the burning will tell you you burn it until you think you've ruined it. Haha.
Since "Sugi" is cedar you have BBQ Pine. Maybe Sugi Matsu depending on the species.
That is so interesting, thanks for the insight on this. much appreciated and don't forget to hit that sub button! I will be mentioning this to my local customers who ask us about lumber that is needed for a similar solution.
Also, Japanese "Cedar" is Cryptomeria japonica. Completely unlike aromatic cedars we think of in the western world. It's a white wood, quite dense. For reference, Eastern White Pine's Janka hardness rating is 380 lbf, Southern Yellow Pine is 870 and Japanese Cedar is 1,500 lbf. It works similarly with hand tools to Hard Maple, which is 1,450 lbf (I.e. rarely splinters and shaves beautifully with sharp chisel & plane blades).
Bark side up always for decks, the edges cup up, but the center does not tear out like the inner side.
I live in a white oak log house built in 1870 in Wisconsin, logs have never had finish on them and still look fantastic.
It’s refreshing to listen to a lesson from a man that doesn’t say “Um”, “like”, “ah”. Good speed and no wast d words! Good job!
Gotta be honest, all of my Ummm’s and Uhhh’s are edited out. Trying to make better videos and this is a good start. Thanks for the comment and the feedback! Believe me, it is much appreciated.
@@kandjlumber Great stuff, guy! Just too bad your lumberyard is too far away for me....
@@thebordernow - Just move to MN... Then they'll be nice and close!😁😁
It's not a bad idea if you don't have 300 ft of fencing 😂
My dad, former Coast Guard, and a bunch of his buddies hand-built a replica 18th Century 3 masted tall ship out of white oak back in 1968. It's still sailing just fine.
Thanks for the comment!
AMAZING! JESUS LOVES YOU! ❤
This is very interesting. I needed a long straight piece of strong wood to reinforce fence and I happened to have a 8 ft white oak 1x2 that I didn’t have a use for. It’s been out in the rain and sun for 8 plus yrs and it’s grey and dirty but still straight and square. I didn’t realize white oak was any different from red oak. Lots of pallets are made of various oaks and they are very tough. There’s one variety we call swamp oak because of how it smells when you saw it. I am rebuilding a garden seat and will use white oak for that!
@@davidsamsonite5791
Swamp White Oak will grow around swamps, along with Swamp Maple/Red Maple.
I just planted a Swamp White Oak, partly because it was available at a Lowe's store, and they transplant easier than regular White Oak.
Cool
Thank you for the knowledge, Been working with wood since 7th grade, I'm now 68, but I'm
building furniture and repair.
I use Larch when building my outdoor furniture. Very durable stains well and holds up well in the elements. Been using it for years never a callback.
Yup, juniper is bullet proof for outdoor use.
I am building my deck out of Larch i am milling myself.
I am building two Adirondack chairs with white oak. The wood is very dense and heavy.
I decided to make the chairs with white oak because I worked in the railroad industry for twenty-one years.
The best wood railroad ties are made from white oak.
The railroad ties lasted thirty years, even in a salty air environment.
A word of caution for any woodworker working with white oak is to be sure to pre-drill prior to driving screws.
If not, the screws will snap, especially if using stainless steel screws. Coating the screw threads with wax will also help the screws thread into the wood more easily.
As someone commented. White oak has become extremely expensive.
The lumber for the two chairs cost me over $500 two years ago.
Why not build chairs to sit in instead.
Red cedar lasts longer than oak, and is much easier to work with.
Bro thanks so much for popping in on my latest video , I subscribed to your channel when I found it earlier this year ! Love the content very informative and important info you’re sharing 🎉
@@Bearded-Viking-WoodWorks Thanks, it means alot coming from other creators.
Awesome that you acknowledge the toxicity and environmental issues of pressure treated. I hate that everything is pressure treated
The west coast Indians used that burn method as well, mostly with split cedar planks and would stick the ends in the fire since end grain is where most of the checking/splitting happens first.... Also, from the mid west farmers (I grew up in Misery), "A black locust fence post will wear out one fence post hole. An osage orange fence post will wear out 2 fence post holes". The locust is ideal for split rail fences, depending on how much you have around....
I use Sapele, (African Mahogany) for my outdoor projects. Lasts for many years.
Vertical grain, clear, all heart Redwood works great too. (now very expensive)
I've had good success with Cyprus and White Oak.
I’ve used thermally modified lumber with great results. It’s burning it without the bunt. I’ve also used white oak. Both are beautiful and long lasting.
Yeah cant be beat, thanks for the comment as well, much appreciated from a small channel like this.
Heat Treated (HT) is what a lot of skid material is going to in order to get away from the chemicals.
It can be really beautiful tho definitely not cheap.
Dude, love your videos because you just act like yourself, genuine. Only question I have is how do I get a belly like yours, that's badass!
You spend your life addicted to drugs and alcohol. (Don't do that by the way) get sober, pound down a bunch of donuts and sugar. Get 5 years of sobriety under your belt, do absolutely NOTHING to lose the weight you gained while first getting sober. Then you grab a camera, grow a silly mustache, and BAM.. you're in!
Seen Trailer Park Boys?
What a fantastic and snappy video. Just chockablock full of tips and stuff without being boring or flat
+1 for the use of 'chockablock'.
One of the most informative information about the types of woods for varied reasons. Thx you for ur video.
Thank You Juan! Check out our video about the Best Finish for Outdoor Wood Projects, natural followup to this video: th-cam.com/video/uJjrRxYolNc/w-d-xo.html
Fun video. Thanks kindly for making it. Another couple adds about yakisugi (sorry if they're repeats, I only ctrl+f'd through the first load of comments).
- The "sugi" in yakisugi is the specific Japanese cedar traditionally used, but you're right that the process can basically be used on any variety. Guessing the benefit of thujaplicin stacks nicely as a second line of defense behind the charred skin.
- The char is inherently rot and bug resistant as it has little nutritional value for fungi and pests who aren't willing to eat through it to reach the unburned wood, but I believe it's usually still sealed with a lacquer to repel water. Charcoal has a very fine, porous/spongy form that is actually great for holding water (think biochar).
- As I've seen and tried a few times, the triangular tube is stood up on end, slightly leaning on something tall and a small fire is lit at the bottom. This reduces the amount of kindling you need and uses a bit of a rocket/chimney effect, pulling air up through the fire at the bottom while the wood itself becomes the main fuel for the burn. It's really quite dramatic seeing the fire erupt out of the top. Kind of a good demonstration of why those of us who still use chimneys want to avoid a creosote fire :D
I helped my dad paint poplar lumber with used motor oil on a fence (not the posts mind you) he was building 35 years ago. That fence has been painted with used oil four times since and nearly every board is still sound. The few that rotted I believe were just too near the bark.
Thanks TH-cam algorithm. I'm a K&J Lumber man now!
This makes it all worth it.
yes
@kandjlumber
Mr. My name is Melinda! I came across this video about 2 weeks ago and LOVE IT, THANK YOU FOR POSTING!❤❤ But there were no place for me to put my own comment. So, here I am under this man's comment. Thank You Man!😊😊
I AM A SUBSCROBER. IT POPPED AHAIN TODAY. Your in Minnesota while I'm in Alabama. I can get cedar here. It grows right down the road. I don't know white kind it is but I'm thinking of building a hot tub with it. What do you think? I own a Sailboat and know all about Varnishes, Epoxy. Polyresin....Fiberglass! LOL. ✝️🙏❤️🇺🇸
Hi Melinda! Super great to see women on our channel as well! Any type of “cedar” has those natural oils that repel bugs/mold etc. so I would think you’re safe. Now it’s not professional advice, build at your own risk. Also the Cedar I was mentioning in this video was Western Red, which only grows on the west coast. More likely you’re seeing Eastern Red Cedar “aromatic cedar”. Thanks for the comment and sub. Good luck!
@kandjlumber yes, it's Eastern Red and smells wonderful, so I am just going to polyresin the inside!! And keep it out of this Alabama sun! When I can't smell it anymore, well, I'll bust out my pall sander with some 220 grit paper and likely sand it! LOL. THANKS FOR RESPONDING! ✝️ 🙏 ❤️ 🇺🇸
Great choice, I built two Adirondack about 15 -20 years ago out of white oak and they've held up quite well sitting outside in Michigan year-round without any finish. To be a fair a few of the individual boards show some rot, but 95% of them look great. Love the channel, btw.
15-20 years? Those chairs are practically vintage! If it were a vehicle you could almost register them as an antique here in MN. My mother made an Adirondack chair back in the day out of nostalgia for her younger years living in Syracuse NY and visiting the Adirondack Mountains on vacation. I remember those chairs being wildly comfortable too.
@@kandjlumber Haha, yes, it's kind of scary how fast time flies! I built them using Norms plans.
Thanks for getting right to the point.
If this is sarcasm, I apologize for the long vid. Will try to do better next time. God bless!
@@kandjlumber No, I lost count of the things done right in building that video and if the length is a negative, the amount of useful info and the presentation pace more than counter it...
Oh well that makes sense then, thanks for the feedback and comments. It helps us make better videos and helps small channels like us.
@@kandjlumber I guess it did come off as sarcastic, was meant as humor though very much enjoy your presentation style and the background info is also good knowledge. Keep doing what you’re doing and much luck in growing your channel.
I live on the Oregon coast.we have port orford cedar and western red and the port orford is the best which is a cypress actually..there's fishing boats 100 years old still in service made of port orford cedar.
The Scotty Kilmer of wood….😂
I gotta stay out of the comment section lol
Spot on , lol .
One of the best Introductory wood species videos I've ever seen. THANK YOU!! Packed with useful info.
Black Locust trees are fast growing and have a dense heavy wood. Very durable. When young they have thorns but as they get older they don't. The seeds from pods germinate naturally. I was thinning a stand out and used as fence posts. Heavy and seem to be very rot resistant. Introduced to my land, I am amazed at the extreme weather conditions Black Locust can tolerate. My area -30F to 105F
Nice video, burning the wood really does work!. When I was a kid my dad pulled some red cedar gate posts out of the ground in a coral that had been buried well over 30 years. The surface of the buried post had been burnt and it looked just as good as the day it went into the ground. Depending on the soil and ground moisture 10-12 years would have been about the maximum life expectancy of a red cedar post in our area.
That’s amazing! Thanks for the comment!
In the old days they'd use Black Locust piles for house foundations - old tech PWF. Cypress is another good water resistant wood.
Had a redwood deck. Lasted only 20 or so years. If it's in a shady area it never dries out completely. The carpenter ants loved the soft wet wood.
❤ Locast and Himlock for outdoors its what the old timers used last a very long time 😊 But guess its according to what you are building and if its covered or not
You know, I'll bet you never would have guessed you would be making videos 20 years ago! Look at those subscribers! Now, I'm hundreds of miles away from you but just look at what I've learned. TH-cam is such an amazing thing. This would have take hours of research at a megacity library. And here it is right in my hands. And you're so entertaining you should be on SNL or Jay Leno Show..if there was a Jay Leno show.
So, now I'm a Lumber Jack and I'm okay!
Wear woman’s clothes
Ya know, 20 years ago I probably thought I’d be dead by now in my addictions. Being a musician and a love for podcasts in the early years I knew I’d be some sort of Showman. Thanks for the comment brother!
Excellent information Kyle and entertaining! 🙏
This is the most entertaining and informative video I have seen on this subject...thank you algorithm. You are an awesome teacher! Thank you.
Thanks for the comment! I hope to do just as good on our upload tomorrow! Be sure to sub!
Word! Yakisugi rules! I have used it for planters and mulch pens. Love it and it looks cool! I even put it into my bar.
I “sorta” knew about this already, but it wasn’t until doing the research for this video that I realized how awesome it was. Might do a video that delves deeper into this subject. Thanks for the comment Brother!
There’s definitely a lot more that you could learn, and it’s very interesting. A few things I’ve learned.
1. Huge difference between using green lumber and dried lumber. If it’s green, you can watch the sap bleed out of the pores.
2. When you char it, if you work from one end to the other in the direction of the flame, you will preheat the wood before the intense fire ever gets there. Gotta get the sap out to be done.
3. Only move as fast as completing the char takes. It’s more than a surface treatment. It is actually changing part of the wood structure; the part that bugs like to eat.
4. Definitely get rid of the excess char. All it does after the fact is make a mess. The char can be brushed away, but we like to use a power washer, but be careful how close you get. You can remove most of the darkness - remember, it’s a matter of changing the wood more than the exterior char - and it leaves an interesting coloring with the wood grain.
5. Definitely recommend using a diluted linseed oil finish to give it a little nicer finish and water repellency. Super easy to apply. Wipe on. Wipe off excess in 10-20 minutes then lay out the rags to dry. They will ignite if not laid out.
One downside to HT is that the wood becomes more brittle so the structural capacity has to be reduced if it is being used structurally.
Another possibility is torrefied or "toasted" wood. It is wood that has been kiln dried at a higher temperature than usual, almost to the point of burning it. I've seen maple and ash, but I'm guessing many species would work. The wood becomes much darker in color and lighter in weight, and is much more rot resistant and no longer appealing to insects. I have some torrefied maple that looks like walnut and has the weight of pine or cedar.
I'll have to look into that. Sounds super interesting, thanks for the comment and knowledge.
I heard of Kelo wood which is wood from pine trees that have been standing dead for hundreds of years in europe and the wood has a golden color like the torrified wood used for guitars. Its widely used for saunas due it it being odorless and not taking on any water and therefore rot resistant.
@jackquillen9120 that is interesting.
Bodark or "Osage Orange" best outdoor wood, provided you work it while it's still green. Once it cures, good luck working with it. It will not rot but petrifies.
Burning method has been around for a long time. Steel wool works wonders at cleaning up the "burn".
Thanks for the comment and the heads up on Osage Orange. comments like these help other people who watch this video to find the lumber they could use in their local area. Good tip btw.. work it green or you might as well be trying to carve a dinosaur bone later! 😂 don't forget to hit that subscribe button! we are doing a giveaway to our subs on an upcoming video.
I really love that you always mention ppe
One comment about white oak and stainless steel fasteners, white oak and stainless can react to each other. The preferred fastener for White oak is silicon bronze. I am a classic boat restorer. There is a chemical reaction between the White oak and stainless steel.
Red oak is worse
@@johnlogan8218 it just rots. It sucks in moisture. And if it is wet when it freezes.. the wood fibers get crushed and rot occurs very quickly. Red oak has to be in used in a dry environment. Not good in bathrooms either. White oak is so much better in a damp environment.
Pressure treated is ok but will rot quicker than you think when it's on the ground. However they do make a ground contact lumber. but you can only find wood that is specially labeled ground contact at home Depot in our area. Lowe's does not seem to carry it here.
We used to burn white oak for fence posts. 30+ years in the ground afterward.
If breathing in cedar sawdust is a potential problem, I would assume that you should wear a mask when cutting *any* wood. It’s not like other types don’t make sawdust.
Good point, yes always wear a mask. Thanks for pointing that out.
lots of really great information. this guy knows what he's talking about. i'm a little disappointed you didin't mention black locust (stuff lasts forever) or hemlock (very cheap and decent rot resistance).
Yeah, Black Locust and also Osage Orange to name a few are some species that are frequently mentioned in the comments section of this video, in fact, there are some sub-comments with some really good honorable mentions.
From a sawmill in Minnesota, yes white Oak. Love the multihead Woodmizer!
White oak is an excellent choice. A HARD wood with an eastern white oak, fine grain, you can bounce cannon balls off it,,, literally. The USS Constitution, still commissioned and floating in Boston Harbor 200 plus years,, nicknamed "Old Iron Sides" Because iron cannon balls DID bounce off its sides in battle. Eastern white oak can dull aluminum oxide sanding belts. Yep.
Another excellent choice for exterior use,, maybe better than white oak,, but expensive. Black walnut. I know of a mailbox post that is now 50 years old. Lost ts bark recently. It will be there another 50 years.
Great video! You're a natural at this video thing. Thanks for the info.
Great presentation that moves along without a lot of filler. What about cypress varieties for outdoor projects?
That acid is in a plant Redwood Sorrel, looks like three leaf clover, said to be sour, i think it taste lemonny.
Oxalic acid.
The Cowlitz , ate leaves, said to potentially be harmful. I nibled but really never consumed much.
Hey Kyle, and thank you algorithm...I'm still a bit puzzled about how I found myself here searching for a client's question about router bits!...LOL!!!
I should first establish my background. I am a traditional and natural builder with four decades of experience focused exclusively on stone, timber, clay, and textiles in the context of vernacular architectural methods. My expertise lies primarily in wood joinery, utilizing timber and stone, as well as other natural materials such as clay. Additionally, I am a Sawyer, Arborist, and Naturalist. I found your presentation style and the information you shared to be highly engaging. Excellent work! This commendation comes from someone with considerable experience who holds strong opinions regarding the prevalence of misinformation on platforms like TH-cam.
Several key points from your discussion may prove beneficial for future reference.
Pressure-treated wood (PT wood) does not justify its expense when considering human safety, environmental impact, and true durability, which often appears more as marketing than substantive fact.
Plastic composite wood, while versatile, cannot be classified as sustainable. It significantly contributes to the proliferation of microplastics and poses similar hazards to those associated with pressure-treated lumber.
As for cedar, it is important to note to viewers and clients just like you did (WELL DONE!!!) that true cedar is not found in North America. Instead, we have cypress, junipers, and arborvitae despite the common misnomer that refers to them as cedar in most regions. Hemlock too is often used like these other species and is virtually as decay resistant in most varieties...
Your recommendation of white oak (or related species in that group like chestnut, post, live, etc) is excellent. And in many (most?) areas it will always be less expensive than what folks are calling "cedar" and actually more durable over time...
Your mention of a..."charring method"...is outstanding and all wood species can benefit from this if done properly. It is important to recognize that the application of "Shou Sugi Ban" to any type of wood is not feasible, as this term is not real and has been "made up" by Westerners to market products and to cultivate a perception of knowledge they don’t actually have and a proficiency in traditional wood charring techniques that is also erroneous.
The Japanese people are widely recognized for their courteous demeanor and a tendency to avoid correcting individuals when terminology is improperly applied. Nonetheless, it is crucial to acknowledge that they experience discomfort when their cultural traditions are inaccurately portrayed or misconstrued by outsiders. Their traditional technique of charring wood, referred to as "Yakesugi" (焼杉), is specifically designed for particular varieties of cypress and analogous woods indigenous to the Nihon Rettō and Ryukyu Archipelago, along with their associated woodcraft traditions.
There are various techniques used in Japan to char wood that may be adapted to other species. The term "Yaki" (焼) encompasses a range of meanings such as burnt, fried, grilled, or heat-treated, serving as a general descriptive term. On the other hand, "Sugi" (杉) specifically refers to "cypress," particularly the Cryptomeria japonica variety or related species. Additionally, "Ita" (板) translates to plank or board. Therefore, the term "yakisugi-ita" (焼杉板) can be translated into English as "heat-treated cypress board" or "burnt plank of cedar." The method known as "Sumi tsuki" (炭付) or "with charcoal" involves a heavily burned-in process. Conversely, "Migaki" (磨き) and other similar methods are referred to as the "polishing" or smoothed-out techniques. "Bānā-yaki" (バーナー焼き) is more of a "flame painting" method. Lastly, akin to the "Sumi tsuki" (炭付) method, "Wani" (鰐) is a technique that results in a deep charring effect known as the "crocodile" effect.
If you or your supporters have any more questions, feel free to ask about these awesome techniques for heat treating both green and dry wood. They’re great for making things look good and keeping them preserved. Also, Kyle, I totally agree with you about using plain old White Pine for outdoor projects. I build decks and outdoor furniture with it all the time. It can last just as long as treated wood if you use it right, plus it’s a sustainable option that you can usually find from local sawmills. It’s also way cheaper! I’ve even taken siding off old barns to make cabinets that were put up in the 1700s, and that wood has held up for over 300 years without rotting. The main reason wood decays is due to trapped moisture from poor design and modern plastic finishes. Plus, you don’t really need “dry wood” if you pay attention to the wood’s grain and the type of joinery you’re using. I mostly work with green lumber, from timber frames to furniture, and I don’t run into many problems. It’s all about having the right knowledge, not just whether it’s green or dry.
Thanks again for the awesome channel and all the great info!
Holey Molee. A long a dedicated comment like this deserves a response. The most interesting point you made was the part about using green wood for any project as long as you pay attention to the grain and joinery. That is fascinating. I am not an expert by no means, I am learning like most in this comment section. And this is why I like the comments section, so we can all learn from each other. Thanks for the comment sir, it was extremely insightful.
@@kandjlumber After 4 decades Brother that was not even a whole cup of coffee drank...LOL...Just the "old stuff" rambling between the ears and accumulated info I use in my work and teaching...Glad you found it of use and value...I joined and looking forward to your future videos. The fact you present information as "I am learning" rather that "I'm knowing" is what I appreciated the most. WELL DONE!!! 👍
Hit that sub button cuz I feel you’ll be valuable to our community in the future. Thanks.
Good use of AI
@@kandjlumberAI
Great video, I wish I had this a few years ago when I bought expensive Covid priced cedar for the deck chairs.... yikes that was expensive. Even more so since I live in the prairies in Canada, no forests here and everything is shipped in. I'll be looking at white oak next time, and even here it is pretty cheap at times. All depends what the local lumber merchants get in.
One wood I want to try but nobody seems to harvest and mill is Tamarack (also called Eastern Larch, Black Larch, Red Larch, or American Larch) since it grows in the northern treeline swamps of my province mixed in with pines and such. Most people use them for pulp or posts. It is nearly as rot and water resistant as cedar, but a much harder wood for making furniture out of. It sounds like the perfect middle ground between white oak and cedar, but I'll be damned if I can find any milled out to try although the places that do work it say it typically is only a bit more expensive then pine since they pull it out at the same time.
I am old enough to remember going to a real lumber yard with my dad. Young enough to never go to them myself.
There is only 1 mill within realistic driving distance - they are very proud of their business & not nearly as knowledgeable as this guy.
It would be great to have a local resource such as this businesses. Unfortunately, across all industries, these types of businesses are all but extinct it seems.
Great vid.
Check out the history of Osage Orange. It used to grow from Florida through the Midwest up to Canada. They used to be used for fence posts. It has quickly became one of my favorite to work with.
I just had a guy call me recently say that he had an Osage Orange tree he wanted to get some custom sawing done on it. apparently it is super hard? I'll have to look into that.
@@kandjlumber it is hard but mills nicely. If I can find the article I am thinking of I will send you the link. Pretty interesting.
@@kevinrich4637 I dulled a blade cutting a piece I found as a scrap offcut. It’s really awesome looking and is extremely hard. It reminds me of maple’s effects on blades.
@@emeeulit is hardy lol. I picked up some when I was in Ohio a couple of weeks ago. The end grain is cool.
White oak in Houston at Lowes is $4.00 a board foot for a 1x4. They don't sell anything bigger. So that wasn't any help. Cedar is also insanely expensive here.
Is that Kiln Dried White Oak you’re talking about? Or was it Rough Sawn fesh cut (green) white oak? Much cheaper, air drying takes forever but may work. Call your local sawmills if you have any in your area.
@@kandjlumber I’m in eastern Tennessee and the mills around here cedar is 1/3 the cost of green white oak. White oak is the second most expensive local wood next to black walnut
Even though I live in north Idaho where we have a big lumber industry we are getting gouged for pressure treated. I paid just over $51 for each 6x6x8 pressure treated post because it comes from Tacoma Washington where everything is expensive and over regulated. We have various pines and firs, western cedar, and tamarack, but we don't grow pressure treated here. Even though they mill it here cedar is cost prohibitive.
Yeah Western Red Cedar grows on the west coast so any cedar we can mill up will only come from old telephone poles.
Is burning wood a form of creosote and or similar to what is put on railroad ties and light-poles.........
Nope.
Burning the surface changes the molecular structure into carbon right?
Love this video, you seem like you love what you do!
Hemlock?
There are other commenters that have mentioned Hemlock..
Eee-yup that's what I use 👍
My dad used to use redwood many years ago, but I never see any of it 60 years later. But then real hardwood floors were the standard back then too.
Loved the video, subscribed .
I paint my outdoor wood projects with Titebond III Waterproof Wood Glue. Then paint with Porch Paint. It makes the wood last a gazillion times longer ❗
So you paint with Titebond 3? That is interesting. Might borrow this idea..
@@kandjlumber Yes, I buy Titebond 3 by the gallon at Lowes. I apply it just like it were paint, with a brush or roller. Another thing I do, when needed, is roll on the Titebond 3 and, while it is still wet, sprinkle sand on it. This creates a slip-resistant surface and makes the glue impervious to UV light. If you want an ever stronger wood surface, lay down fiberglass cloth and paint it with Titebond 3 until saturated just like you do epoxy (for boat building, etc.). I built a garden cart and sealed the whole thing with Titebond 3, and applied fiberglass cloth to critical areas. That cart has been sitting out in the weather for about 10 years and shows zero signs of wood rot.
@@firecloud77 I restore wooden boats and am getting into furniture and you’re right, between titebond iii and epoxy, that’s all you need. White oak is also used in boats since forever and is a great wood for structural members.
Re: red oak pores, I made a board & batten door out of red oak once. When I applied the clamps to the batten, the glue was squeezing out directly through the board, through the large pores of the red oak.
White oak is amazing stuff. I've only done a tiny bit with it (I'm barely a real hobbyist woodworker) but I hope to do some more with it in the future. White oak is amazingly strong (in general, though I'm sure not the strongest wood), and a friend who works at a sawmill says they (the sawmill) use it for the sides of trucks, etc, because it's so weather resistant.
We got alot of red ceder in missouri, sadly my buddy had a select cut on his property and took most the white oak. Really wanted to mill up white oak for siding.
Humorous and useful! Thanks
An awesom vid. Very informative & humorous! And i love people w/a since of humor!🤣
That pile at @6:47 ? Burn pile?
That's what we call the "End Block" pile. it's the cutt-offs from when we square up our packs of pallet parts. We sell it to the public dirt cheap. Hope that helps Brother..
@@kandjlumber It does. And I’m glad you’re not burning it.
I’d buy them all up and laminate or use for smaller projects since I’m big on using reclaimed/salvaged wood whenever possible.
Just one more reason to move to MN, haha. Love the channel. Sorry my first comment probably came across as so self-interested. Cheers!
Reminds me of that Swedish or european guy that builds tables out of pallet wood. Jasper Builds, look him up.
@@kandjlumber Here’s a sign I spent too much time on TH-cam: 1. I am already subscribed and 2. Knew you were referring to Jasper by the time I finished reading the word “guy.”
Experience has shown me that burning both sides is helpful to prevent bowing.
For an upcoming video, we are going to test burning all sides for a Ground-Contact post. So it should be interesting to see the results. Thanks!
I've done it on Douglass fir 4x4s for a fence, then soaked in used motor oil. That was only three years ago, but they look good as the day I set them. @@kandjlumber
White oak last good early truck manufactures used them for the floor of pick up beds
Here in california we call it 'western red cedar' cause that's all that's available (no eastern) and to an inexperienced eye might be mistaken for redwood other than the fact it has a wonderful smell when green. Western red cedar is rarely found around here because it comes mostly out of canada and is typically more expensive than redwood. Pencil cedar is native to the sierra nevadas here and is the little brother to redwood for outdoor use. Incense cedar has more peck than red cedar but is actually the most decay resistent portion of the tree so if the application isn't concerned about appearance pecky incense cedar would be a good outdoor choice if you can get your hands on it. Pecky cedar actually has a stylish look and with a light colored or clear treatment has a surprisingly nice look. Pecky cedar is considered a lower grade of lumber so the 'through peck' wont be sorted out.
If you built a pine privacy fence, say a board on board, 1x6, untreated, if you did this burn method would it last a long time like a treated pine fence?
Is Red Oak a decent hardwood for indoor projects?
Not as hard as White Oak so it is a little easier on your tools. It is known for taking a stain very well. And most cabinets/interior was made using it back in the 90’s, at least so in our area. 👍
Nice information. I've been surprised on how rot resistant Larch, larix laricina, is. Good stuff
Great Job Kyle! Proud of you man 😊
Thanks, currently researching a for a vid about finishes and feel like my brain is going to melt lol.. too.. many.. options!!!
@@kandjlumber do 1 video for each 👍🏽
Thanks for an excellent educational video. I stumbled upon your channel, I am now subscribed. Carry On Sir!
LOL I thought you would say honey locust, which is a great choice in the appalachian forests. Watch out for the spikes. I have seen fence posts last 40+ years.
Osage orange, black locust, hop hornbeam, catalpa.
my immediate thought was untreated pine, at least for vertical pieces, it lasts that way for shingles. round here it's the right environment for it, but i'd never suggest it everywhere. roasted i hadn't thought of, but, i'd build a roaster with some old planer parts and offer it as a product, just run the boards through for hundreds of metres at a time.
That's genius but my immediate thought is: "has someone already developed that?" it's a mad dash to the Patent Office folks!!
@@kandjlumber well, i meant, i'd offer the roasted lumber as a product by adding the roaster to my mill, if i ever did more than wailing at a tree with an axe to see if i will die from exertion or not. it'd be an interesting addition to the selection of planed planks that some places sell. afaik roasted lumber used for guitar necks is just done in a high temp kiln, not one piece at a time.
Very informative.
What are your thoughts on using the wood locust? I have seen commercial childrens playground equipment.
Locust does not grow in our area, therefore I cannot speak on it as I have no experience with it. We did a custom job for a construction company last year that had won a bid for a local twin cities suburb, they were installing animal shaped pieces for a local park. Was pretty unique as they had to be cut in certain shapes etc. one of them was an alligator shape if I remember correctly. Thanks for the comment! Be sure to sub, and thanks again!
Yeah white oak is awesome. Red oak can rot within a year or so if you don't treat it. Even if it's off the ground. I built rails on a 4x8 trailer out of red oak barn wood. It didn't last a year but it wasn't green either....old barn wood. However I did make shop door out of it and rubbed burnt motor oil on it and it's been probably 7 years.
I love white oak. Deer love the white oak acorns too.
Learn something new everyday! Thanks for the comment!
Locust is a great timber used on fence post.
Yeah there is a lot of people in this chat discussing Locust as a viable alternative.
@@kandjlumber
Ill scroll down. Thanks for a very useful and entertaining video🤩😎
Thanks Rolly Fingers.
The best Wood advice channel from a retired MLB Pitcher. Lol
Cheapest white pine 3 coats of outdoor Uv rated stain finished in roofing sealant where it touches the ground plus a foot or so.
What do you think of using black locust for outdoor building?
I do not have experience with Black Locust sorry, We only deal with local lumber species. This comment section has a lot of insight on species I haven't covered in this video though, might be worth it to look around..
i wanted to plant white oak at age 9. rough childhood got me searching. no body listened. they took away my books instead. yes throwing it in front of cars, i like it. the right car is a bonus.
Awesome!
Thanks for sharing!!!!
Outstanding info learned so much thx
Old growth red cedar is almost as rot resistant as redwood but lumber milled out of younger second growth is no more rot resistant than pine. A young cedar pole planted in the ground, untreated will rot off in a few years. Actually larch is more resistant than young cedar but is still not all that suitable for out doors.
Black Locust is the best to use for in ground use..A fence post in the ground will last for 100 years
And Osage orange
New subscriber! Great video! Learned some good stuff. I saw a couple do that burning here on TH-cam. They were building a fence.
Douglas fir is a good outdoor wood, but you should treat it with a water sealant, then paint it. Pressure treated lumber warps too much for external, decking, its okay for joists and posts. I regret using it as decking. After 2 years and good staining, it was so twisted and warped that I am going to replace it. From your video, I will see if Colorado has it and compare it to douglas fir.
This is a good and useful video, Thanks
Glad it was helpful! Don't forget to subscribe! and thanks for the comment. It is very helpful to small channels like ours! God bless you!
Stainless fasteners is a must with white oak, regular steel will turn the wood darkish grey.
Thanks so much for this primer on outdoor woods. I've used a lot of pressure treated posts but, hopefully not in locations where it may be hazardous (mostly posts in concrete). I do a lot of work with exterior woods for carvings. I always put exterior finishes on them to, hopefully, make them last longer. But I won't worry about it as we all grow old;-). What surprised me is that much of the wood I'm using (so far I get free large hunks of wood) is supposedly cedar. Now, I'm wondering if it's not cedar and less effective outdoors. I've done a lot of work with white oak and love it for furniture. It's just that I'll have to Pay for it;-( And learn how to carve it.
I liked that hat you were wearing at the end (13:16) but can't find that exact one on your site. Help me out?
I have updated the site to reflect the logo in the video, and also a version that is brown. Give it a little bit and refresh if it isn't done clearing copyright yet. Design of hat was done by local company, but the one on the site has different colors to choose from. Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention and hope this works for you.
Tulip poplar has recently been in science news for its nano-structure! Fascinating stuff.
Great Video! I’m having a new deck built after a Mountainado trashed it. Our cabin is at 8500 ft elevation at the Colorado/Wyoming border. 300 day of sunshine, lots snow, Temperatures range from 90 degrees F down to -25f. Very low humidity. All that to ask recommendations on wood( White Oak? ) Also would the burning technique with proper safety precautions work AFTER the deck is built? Would it cause the deck planks to shrink or twist? Obviously a rookie here! Thx much ! Will
I do know that in our area (similar temps), we need to bury posts deeper because the freeze/thaw will cause the post to rise out of the ground more than warmer areas. We are in the process of doing a similar video on Ground Contact solutions. So keep your eye out for that. Also, one of our coworkers is going to use white oak to build a deck and may film that process as well. The burning process, this was the first time I (Kyle) has even tested this and haven’t used it on anything as of yet. There’s a bunch of videos out there by Yakisugi experts you can search and would fully trust their opinion over anything I could suggest. I am sorry this isn’t much help but I hope I could at least point you in the right direction.
Red grandis is what I use or Spanish cedar!
Thanks for the suggestion. Comments like these may help others looking for solutions in their areas.
About the only wood around here is spruce. Any other wood is running 12$ board foot and up. Plastc wood 2x6 x 16 is 86.00$ a board. Cedar is absolutely insane at 60$ a board foot. A 2x6 x 12 foot cedar board for a window sill cost me 600$. Spruce is it, and even at that its going to be real expensive to build anything. Exterior finish...... get a pressure sprayer and soak it with oil to make it last. Stain it first if you want colour. Paint holds the moisture and rots in a few years. Building with wood is not like it used to be 😢
$60 bleeping dollars a board foot!?! Good lord…
Talk about GREEDY lumber sellers....$60/bdft for cedar 2x6 ?? $600 fir a 12' ?? Absolutely insane. You were totally ripped off. I live in SW Oregon....that board would likely be$20-$25 @ ANY lumberyard, $30-$40 @Home Depot or Lowe’s....and of questionable twist/straightness....big box crap lumber.
But a $600 2x6 is HIGHWAY ROBBERY !!!!
I don't know what you're seeing, but white oak lumber has become super popular lately in building, and prices have skyrocketed. Up over three times value in the last year.
I (Kyle) have been known to look at candle charts within the stock market. The Ticker symbol LUMBER is a good indicator on the lumber market as a whole and looks to be a little higher than we'd like, but nowhere near as volatile, and as "a few years back". Since August of 2023, it bounced around from $480-ish to above $600. And now it is $514 per share. But we all know that what the stock market price is can be different than what big box, and other lumber suppliers will charge customers for lumber. Thanks for the comment and I hope to maybe do a video about this topic in greater detail at some point in the future if there is enough people asking for it. Don't forget to Subscribe, thanks again.
@@kandjlumber thank you for the detailed reply! I'm a cabinet maker in the Inland NW. I rarely see the log price charts, and obviously oak is not on them up here, but I get regular price lists from my wholesale lumber supplier. I just quoted a big job in white oak and was surprised by the price movements over the last year.
@benr8772 yeah again this is something, that as a sales guy, I should be tracking more but it is hard when only Big Box (and us) are the only ones publishing prices on the internet. We deal mainly in fresh cut rough sawn, and kiln dried finish grade so that kind of helps to narrow it down. But is still hard to track unless I call everyone local. Thanks again!
Yeah around here you can get Sapele cheaper than white oak, which is wild.
I've heard they are having trouble regrowing white oak cause it grows so slowly that it gets beaten out by the neighbouring trees that grow faster.