@Simon de Montfort Abrahamism is false, including Christianity and Islam (which you correctly identity as a heresy, yet Christianity and Judaism are also heresies which you don't dare to confront). Christ hasn't saved anyone, they merely believe they have been saved when they have been damned by their faith in Christ. Faith won't save you. Falsehood won't save you.
@@KalosAgathon Actually that started with the separation of church and state....more a political shift away from totalitarianism than a philosophy, really.
@@Anon1gh3 well, the platonic academy existed long before christianity. I think the idea of the 'logos' gave birth to science as we know it - the idea that the world is structured in a way that can be recognized by man through reason.
@@KalosAgathon The wisdom of the ancient Greeks is far bigger than the Academy, but I agree. The core principle of philosophy is continued constructive debate - trial and error. When church and state was separated/ freedom of speech returned, science, high culture and philosophy all sprung to life simultaneously.
@@KalosAgathon At that time, philosophy subsumed science. Up until the 19th century, "natural philosophy" was the term for what we now call science (though not always through the scientific method).
This was an amazing movie. And this was one of my favorite scenes from it too. Her stubborn refusal to accept Christianity makes her a gal after my own heart! lol I wish the movie would have gotten more attention here in the States. But no way, w/all the fundie Christians living over here. They would have protested. Fox News would have made a big stink over it... it would have been a nightmare. But then again... bad press is better than no press, right? It was a damned fine film!
@mastersleib Actually their were lots of remnant literature from the library in the Serapeum before it was razed in the 4th century. And what exactly Hypatia said during proceedings isn't known. That's why it's a movie and not a documentary. The fact remains her disposition was about freedom of mind not forced intellectual religious tyranny
@mastersleib Again 1. The Serepeam contained surviving literature from the library. 2. Hypatia was killed by a mob of christians. 3. Roman emperor Theodosius made christianity the mandatory religion of the empire in 391 and was razing temples of other religions and annexing philosophical societies. Nothing you're saying negates any of the known facts. Or are you just upset because you feel an attack on your religion hence the irrational red herring replies?
Let them. All they’d be doing is broadcasting their ignorance of their own history. This movie actually had to leave out a lot of the Christian-on-Christian sectarian riots and persecution going on (often with state backing) at the time to create any sense of balance. Cyril only ascended to the bishopric after instigating a riot over who would succeed Theophilus - himself, or the archdeacon Timothy. Timothy was older, more moderate, and favored among the city’s patricians. Cyril was younger, more radical, and a populist, and he set about persecuting Christians from the Novatianist sect immediately, as Theophilus before him had targeted the Origenists. There was also a second institution of learning in the city around the time the Serapeum was destroyed known as the Catechetical School, an institution built by and for Christians. It was destroyed when Christians rioted in response to the news that Constantinople, not Alexandria, would be recognized as the heart of Christendom within the empire. The Catechetical school wouldn’t be rebuilt until the 19th century.
Little could those civilized pagan philosophers of this era know that the transformation of their society into a theocratic, authoritarian juggernaut was only the beginning of one of the greatest scourges of human history, that would last centuries and millennia. And I say this as someone who is familiar with medieval history and its nuances, including the very real good the church (sometimes) did. As Nietzsche noted, Christianity began by appealing to the slaves... (I deleted then rewrote that statement because it is so easily misunderstood...)
crackshack2 I don't suppose there's much point in saying this, because your message does not seem to portray someone whose views are likely to be changed by argument or at all... but that's ridiculous. I mean, I oppose monotheism on rationalist and humanist grounds. Not antisemitism and conspiracy theories.
crackshack2 I'm not too worried about your opinion, but if you are interesting in convincing rational adult human beings that your views are an accurate description of reality you might provide some arguments or evidence in favour of those views. I mean, we can disagree and all, but you seem to me to have made some sweeping claims about human history and provided no evidence to back them up. Still, that's how anti-semitism usually works, so it's not exactly a surprise to see this type of comment on youtube (lol also bonus points if you are trolling; I don't get offended if people post words online that disagree with me either way). I'll rephrase: "stfu and piss off loser." JOKES!
False appealing due to deception if you actually look at first or second century slaves not a lot of them rejected it to inside it was fake even early Christians rejected it went back to paganism in life because they wasn't saving it was damning the Jewish guy from Galilee was a liar and a center just like all the Jews who spread the deception and darkness Christianity was never miraculous it was deception darkest lies to see wickedness and fraud the Rome empire actually was the Salvation in truth it went not having a spiritual message but it's true religions were the Salvation gift mystery Fates were more salvation than these people were and they are Mr egg beliefs Acts were saving to slaves and servants Christianity was never
+Ahmad Toirjonov As a scientist, in my opinion it is better to say that you trust in the scientific method. Science is not a belief system. To say you "believe" in may misrepresent what it is to those who aren't very fluent in science.
That's ridiculous, we'd definitely have colonies on Mars. Haha. The way I look at it is this. From about 500 to about 1500 there was severely limited progress in all areas of human achievement, so if we want to gauge how far behind we are, just assume every advance would happen roughly 1000 years earlier, maybe a little less, such as 800. Man walked on the moon in 1969, maybe it could have been 1169. Will we have Martian colonies in 800 years? I hope so and I think so.
Progress continued in the Arab world while Europe stalled. Then Genghis Khan came along and burned the Houses of Wisdom (basically the Great Library of Baghdad) to the ground. Khan killed or displaced a quarter of the human population on the planet and used bubonic plague as a weapon of war. If there was one single person in all of human history you could go back and ice...
I am afraid what this movie means became important after so long? Revealing so much information causes a burden for a cluster if we can not afford to keep the cluster calm then better to loadshedding to stop the drama.
Augustine is who made Christianity's power it was cuz of his stupid book city of God that will make Christianity his powerful it was and turn the world from the holy Godly Pagan ways of the past and the way the good world to a Darkness world of Christianity and sin and darkness and Deceit and Hell and GodlessFullness.
A better argument than "I believe in philosophy": 1. I never said I believed in nothing. You made that assumption to try to discredit me. 2. I am under no obligation to disclose the details of my faith to hostile, extraneous upstarts. 3. The fact that your God has to coerce people under duress to be baptised, renounce the entirety of their heritage and to pay his supposed followers is proof-positive that this "God" of yours is little more than a pretence for violence.
After the British invading our Greek homes and land in Cyprus Greece 1950s they murdered most of my family and most of my family were only children. The Savagery of the British war crimes is hideous and the UK military is still occupying Cyprus, Greece. So for me, it's disturbing and anger's me to see British characters portraying my Greek ancestors, without even having any Hellenistic characteristics whatsoever, it really sickens me to my core, indeed. I know that these British actress's & actor's and other British people had nothing to do with the war, but there is still some semblance of hate within me towards them. There is an intelligent Movie to be made in English about Hypatia and the Alexandria culture, and Agora - (2009) this isn't it, indeed. In Rome the Greek doctors were the best. University and library had writers from doctors around the world from India, China, Egypt, and even Mesopotamia. A time when Romans thought of war. Greeks thought of philosophy in Alexandria, they thought of thought itself. Too bad, so sad. They couldn't put that in the Movie.
When she uses the word "philosophy" in this particular line of dialog it's because she is trying to say that she believes in something greater than religion or philosophy. She just doesn't have the right word for it yet... Because it's something that religion and philosophy are struggling to give birth to in her mind... Science.
Someone attacking the weakest link in the monotheist chain . Both roman and greek cultures involved human sacrifice, slavery and they adored power. If anything is wrong with christianity it is the Greco-roman culture that got in there through St Paul and St Constantine.
***** As far as I am concerned they did practice human sacrifice but in other more acceptable forms such as execusion (check why they used the cross to kill Jesus : it is a symbol for the sun god) and the symbolism used in arena entertainments... They did not actually sacrifice humans, just the slaves (!) (or jews, or christians or other barbarians..). That point of view reminds me of Voltaire who is known as a great humanist and said and wrote great humanist things but simply did not think black people were humans. This is the true backbone of the western culture. I wish it were Christianity, but it is not.. Just look at Vatican.. would Christ live there?
***** Well we can discuss this but it really does not make sense in terms of the main theme of my message. I think killing for entertainment (gladiators) is even worse than killing for appollon or mars or bachus. Christianity was hijacked by the emperor "St Constantine" and if there is any cruelty, or discrimination, or power-worship or arrogance in christianiy; it comes from its Roman root, not from Jesus Christ's advice.. Christianity is systematicallty being transformed into the pagan roman religon since then, and seemingly they did not finish yet. (Hollywood is still casting its light on us)
@@smyrnianlink Christianity is a religion based on human sacrifice. A son sacrificed to his father in order for his father to forgive mankind is the core of christianity.
There are no human sacrifice in Greek culture, but someone apparently forget how many time Abrahamic God seems to demand human sacrifice. He especially fond of fathers sacrificing their sons.
@@MultiEvil85 First of all you are projecting your own ignorance onto me which is not very respectful. Second the Neo-Platonists were not agnostics like Hypatia seems to be in this passage of the film, but of metaphysics who believed in one God that the Neoplatonists called the One who is the supreme principle. The Hypatia of the film (in addition to having taken on a young and pretty actress for the good of the box office) is an agnostic or even an atheist who takes on the characteristics of a 17th and 18th century philosopher by opposing philosophy and metaphysics, something that no philosopher of antiquity would have said especially not the Neoplatonists
@@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700 yeah, I agree. Pagans weren’t godless people, regardless of what the Torah or the Bible says. They didn’t worship idols, they just used idols to represent their gods. Some pagans even chose particular gods to worship above all others. That’s how the Israelites came about. A popular name for God in Judaism is “Elohim,” literally “gods” or “god of all gods.” Some pagans weren’t very religious at all, but certainly believed in a higher power.
@@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700 Fun fact - 'Allfather' and 'Dagda' is the etymological root of 'Father' and 'Dad' in English. 'Papa" is italic and comes from 'Papacy', as in the Catholic church...You see there's a paternal element to these names, which I believe is quite crucial as it pertains to psychology. That paternal element is void in a semitic name like 'Yahweh' or 'Elohim' or 'Tzevaot' or 'Ehyeh'...yet you must insist I adopt the foremost of those. Well that ain't happening, comrade. Sorry.
Ya know the Irony about this character/woman is that she's so smart to make new duscoveries in science. Yet not smart enough to realize how insane and stupid christianity is that it would come for her and kill her. Which us ironic considering how anti woman christianity is And she's neutral towards it throughout the movie. Well guess in hindsight, she wouldn't have been so neutral.
She's neutral about religious beliefs because she doesn't care about them. Obviously, she isn't that neutral when it comes to the destruction of the library and the Serapeum and the constant street violence.
Hypatia was far more closer to the divine through philosophy than all three Abrahamic religions will ever be!
Rightly says
Nope, biggest bullshit ever
@Simon de Montfort Abrahamism is false, including Christianity and Islam (which you correctly identity as a heresy, yet Christianity and Judaism are also heresies which you don't dare to confront). Christ hasn't saved anyone, they merely believe they have been saved when they have been damned by their faith in Christ. Faith won't save you. Falsehood won't save you.
@Simon de Montfort No religion preached on this earth.
jesus & mohammed > hypatia
This movie was wonderfull and Rachel was perfect ..Rachel Weisz is a great, beautiful actress and amazing person .
Science brought us advancement. Philosophy kept us from destroying ourselves with it.
Philosophy also gave birth to science.
@@KalosAgathon Actually that started with the separation of church and state....more a political shift away from totalitarianism than a philosophy, really.
@@Anon1gh3 well, the platonic academy existed long before christianity. I think the idea of the 'logos' gave birth to science as we know it - the idea that the world is structured in a way that can be recognized by man through reason.
@@KalosAgathon The wisdom of the ancient Greeks is far bigger than the Academy, but I agree. The core principle of philosophy is continued constructive debate - trial and error. When church and state was separated/ freedom of speech returned, science, high culture and philosophy all sprung to life simultaneously.
@@KalosAgathon At that time, philosophy subsumed science. Up until the 19th century, "natural philosophy" was the term for what we now call science (though not always through the scientific method).
This was an amazing movie. And this was one of my favorite scenes from it too. Her stubborn refusal to accept Christianity makes her a gal after my own heart! lol
I wish the movie would have gotten more attention here in the States. But no way, w/all the fundie Christians living over here. They would have protested. Fox News would have made a big stink over it... it would have been a nightmare.
But then again... bad press is better than no press, right? It was a damned fine film!
Movie is not historical. She never said that.
@mastersleib Actually their were lots of remnant literature from the library in the Serapeum before it was razed in the 4th century. And what exactly Hypatia said during proceedings isn't known. That's why it's a movie and not a documentary. The fact remains her disposition was about freedom of mind not forced intellectual religious tyranny
@mastersleib Again 1. The Serepeam contained surviving literature from the library. 2. Hypatia was killed by a mob of christians. 3. Roman emperor Theodosius made christianity the mandatory religion of the empire in 391 and was razing temples of other religions and annexing philosophical societies. Nothing you're saying negates any of the known facts. Or are you just upset because you feel an attack on your religion hence the irrational red herring replies?
Let them. All they’d be doing is broadcasting their ignorance of their own history. This movie actually had to leave out a lot of the Christian-on-Christian sectarian riots and persecution going on (often with state backing) at the time to create any sense of balance. Cyril only ascended to the bishopric after instigating a riot over who would succeed Theophilus - himself, or the archdeacon Timothy. Timothy was older, more moderate, and favored among the city’s patricians. Cyril was younger, more radical, and a populist, and he set about persecuting Christians from the Novatianist sect immediately, as Theophilus before him had targeted the Origenists.
There was also a second institution of learning in the city around the time the Serapeum was destroyed known as the Catechetical School, an institution built by and for Christians. It was destroyed when Christians rioted in response to the news that Constantinople, not Alexandria, would be recognized as the heart of Christendom within the empire. The Catechetical school wouldn’t be rebuilt until the 19th century.
Little could those civilized pagan philosophers of this era know that the transformation of their society into a theocratic, authoritarian juggernaut was only the beginning of one of the greatest scourges of human history, that would last centuries and millennia. And I say this as someone who is familiar with medieval history and its nuances, including the very real good the church (sometimes) did.
As Nietzsche noted, Christianity began by appealing to the slaves...
(I deleted then rewrote that statement because it is so easily misunderstood...)
crackshack2 I don't suppose there's much point in saying this, because your message does not seem to portray someone whose views are likely to be changed by argument or at all... but that's ridiculous.
I mean, I oppose monotheism on rationalist and humanist grounds. Not antisemitism and conspiracy theories.
Colonel Hart
If you think there's no point in saying anything then stfu and piss off loser. You need a 13 year olds lesson in self confidence.
crackshack2 I'm not too worried about your opinion, but if you are interesting in convincing rational adult human beings that your views are an accurate description of reality you might provide some arguments or evidence in favour of those views. I mean, we can disagree and all, but you seem to me to have made some sweeping claims about human history and provided no evidence to back them up. Still, that's how anti-semitism usually works, so it's not exactly a surprise to see this type of comment on youtube (lol also bonus points if you are trolling; I don't get offended if people post words online that disagree with me either way).
I'll rephrase: "stfu and piss off loser." JOKES!
Colonel Hart
If you're not too worried then stop posting dumb fuck. idiot.
False appealing due to deception if you actually look at first or second century slaves not a lot of them rejected it to inside it was fake even early Christians rejected it went back to paganism in life because they wasn't saving it was damning the Jewish guy from Galilee was a liar and a center just like all the Jews who spread the deception and darkness Christianity was never miraculous it was deception darkest lies to see wickedness and fraud the Rome empire actually was the Salvation in truth it went not having a spiritual message but it's true religions were the Salvation gift mystery Fates were more salvation than these people were and they are Mr egg beliefs Acts were saving to slaves and servants Christianity was never
I believe in philosophy
If only this got released in the US and had a wide spread release among 25 countries
1:04 OH MY!🤩🤩🤩
Damned religions...
I ashamed of the people.
they still do this
She nailed him in the middle of the head ..
I believe in Science
+Ahmad Toirjonov As a scientist, in my opinion it is better to say that you trust in the scientific method. Science is not a belief system. To say you "believe" in may misrepresent what it is to those who aren't very fluent in science.
***** Correction, I'm a boy so I am properly addressed as Wizard.
***** Stupefy
***** Didn't work on my twice, won't work on me a third time muahahaha.
science is overrated, it just sees the Maya's veil and not what there is beyond
That's ridiculous, we'd definitely have colonies on Mars. Haha.
The way I look at it is this. From about 500 to about 1500 there was severely limited progress in all areas of human achievement, so if we want to gauge how far behind we are, just assume every advance would happen roughly 1000 years earlier, maybe a little less, such as 800. Man walked on the moon in 1969, maybe it could have been 1169. Will we have Martian colonies in 800 years? I hope so and I think so.
Progress continued in the Arab world while Europe stalled. Then Genghis Khan came along and burned the Houses of Wisdom (basically the Great Library of Baghdad) to the ground.
Khan killed or displaced a quarter of the human population on the planet and used bubonic plague as a weapon of war. If there was one single person in all of human history you could go back and ice...
@@FreemanicParacusia what, why you hate genghis
that's not how science works
normies
@@cat3784 Did you not read what I wrote? Is that not reason enough to despise the man?
I am afraid what this movie means became important after so long? Revealing so much information causes a burden for a cluster if we can not afford to keep the cluster calm then better to loadshedding to stop the drama.
Sadly this movie is still relevant... now it’s mostly Islam against Christianity. As a philosophy student I feel a bit like Hypatia.
kako da pogledam cijeli film,to su samo kratki inserti,hvala
Hipatia: I believe in philosophy!!Saint Augustine: me too, and I’m a Christian!! And I like Plato too!!
Saint Patrick: " phtt, amateurs."
lmao... yes plato is the best!! Love him!
Augustine is who made Christianity's power it was cuz of his stupid book city of God that will make Christianity his powerful it was and turn the world from the holy Godly Pagan ways of the past and the way the good world to a Darkness world of Christianity and sin and darkness and Deceit and Hell and GodlessFullness.
@@conorhenderson8537 The moment you said the city of God was a stupid book, I stoped reading your comment.
@@EwingAmaterasu well it is a dumb book. Augustine is sell fool for the Christian darkness that he fell into and didn't repent of.
Kingsley Shacklebolt? Are wizards allowed be christians?
Dthe Original Cause العالِم Dm
...i wonder if you could understand what philosophy is...
A wise person has read a thousand books and is filled with doubt. A fool has read one and thinks they have the answer to everything.
Hypatia: I believe in philosophy
St Paisios: 🙃
A better argument than "I believe in philosophy":
1. I never said I believed in nothing. You made that assumption to try to discredit me.
2. I am under no obligation to disclose the details of my faith to hostile, extraneous upstarts.
3. The fact that your God has to coerce people under duress to be baptised, renounce the entirety of their heritage and to pay his supposed followers is proof-positive that this "God" of yours is little more than a pretence for violence.
Paisios was a moron
After the British invading our Greek homes and land in Cyprus Greece 1950s they murdered most of my family and most of my family were only children. The Savagery of the British war crimes is hideous and the UK military is still occupying Cyprus, Greece. So for me, it's disturbing and anger's me to see British characters portraying my Greek ancestors, without even having any Hellenistic characteristics whatsoever, it really sickens me to my core, indeed. I know that these British actress's & actor's and other British people had nothing to do with the war, but there is still some semblance of hate within me towards them. There is an intelligent Movie to be made in English about Hypatia and the Alexandria culture, and Agora - (2009) this isn't it, indeed.
In Rome the Greek doctors were the best. University and library had writers from doctors around the world from India, China, Egypt, and even Mesopotamia.
A time when Romans thought of war. Greeks thought of philosophy in Alexandria, they thought of thought itself. Too bad, so sad. They couldn't put that in the Movie.
When she uses the word "philosophy" in this particular line of dialog it's because she is trying to say that she believes in something greater than religion or philosophy. She just doesn't have the right word for it yet... Because it's something that religion and philosophy are struggling to give birth to in her mind... Science.
There were no Sub-Saharans in classic Alexandria.
There were no black baptists in that time
"The religion of love", all i see is the same thing as islam
christian no 1
Cough *hacked*
Someone attacking the weakest link in the monotheist chain . Both roman and greek cultures involved human sacrifice, slavery and they adored power.
If anything is wrong with christianity it is the Greco-roman culture that got in there through St Paul and St Constantine.
*****
As far as I am concerned they did practice human sacrifice but in other more acceptable forms such as execusion (check why they used the cross to kill Jesus : it is a symbol for the sun god) and the symbolism used in arena entertainments...
They did not actually sacrifice humans, just the slaves (!) (or jews, or christians or other barbarians..). That point of view reminds me of Voltaire who is known as a great humanist and said and wrote great humanist things but simply did not think black people were humans.
This is the true backbone of the western culture. I wish it were Christianity, but it is not.. Just look at Vatican.. would Christ live there?
*****
Well we can discuss this but it really does not make sense in terms of the main theme of my message. I think killing for entertainment (gladiators) is even worse than killing for appollon or mars or bachus. Christianity was hijacked by the emperor "St Constantine" and if there is any cruelty, or discrimination, or power-worship or arrogance in christianiy; it comes from its Roman root, not from Jesus Christ's advice..
Christianity is systematicallty being transformed into the pagan roman religon since then, and seemingly they did not finish yet. (Hollywood is still casting its light on us)
Uh what? You sound like a dumbass.
@@smyrnianlink Christianity is a religion based on human sacrifice. A son sacrificed to his father in order for his father to forgive mankind is the core of christianity.
There are no human sacrifice in Greek culture, but someone apparently forget how many time Abrahamic God seems to demand human sacrifice. He especially fond of fathers sacrificing their sons.
Never a neo-Platonist such as Hypatia would have said that
You don't know what you talking about!
@@MultiEvil85 First of all you are projecting your own ignorance onto me which is not very respectful.
Second the Neo-Platonists were not agnostics like Hypatia seems to be in this passage of the film, but of metaphysics who believed in one God that the Neoplatonists called the One who is the supreme principle.
The Hypatia of the film (in addition to having taken on a young and pretty actress for the good of the box office) is an agnostic or even an atheist who takes on the characteristics of a 17th and 18th century philosopher by opposing philosophy and metaphysics, something that no philosopher of antiquity would have said especially not the Neoplatonists
@@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700 yeah, I agree. Pagans weren’t godless people, regardless of what the Torah or the Bible says. They didn’t worship idols, they just used idols to represent their gods. Some pagans even chose particular gods to worship above all others. That’s how the Israelites came about. A popular name for God in Judaism is “Elohim,” literally “gods” or “god of all gods.” Some pagans weren’t very religious at all, but certainly believed in a higher power.
@@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700See Allfather/Wodin, Dagda, Jupiter, Zeus, Apollo, Amun-Ra, Indra, Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Lao Tsu, Kami...
@@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700 Fun fact - 'Allfather' and 'Dagda' is the etymological root of 'Father' and 'Dad' in English. 'Papa" is italic and comes from 'Papacy', as in the Catholic church...You see there's a paternal element to these names, which I believe is quite crucial as it pertains to psychology. That paternal element is void in a semitic name like 'Yahweh' or 'Elohim' or 'Tzevaot' or 'Ehyeh'...yet you must insist I adopt the foremost of those. Well that ain't happening, comrade. Sorry.
Ya know the Irony about this character/woman is that she's so smart to make new duscoveries in science.
Yet not smart enough to realize how insane and stupid christianity is that it would come for her and kill her.
Which us ironic considering how anti woman christianity is
And she's neutral towards it throughout the movie.
Well guess in hindsight, she wouldn't have been so neutral.
She's neutral about religious beliefs because she doesn't care about them. Obviously, she isn't that neutral when it comes to the destruction of the library and the Serapeum and the constant street violence.
DidaxS
you should have sided with the people who care about preserving libraries. Derp
What are you talking about
DidaxS
She stands for science,philosophy, enlightenment.
Yet she doesn't take an active role in defending it against the christard masses.
crackshack2 On a political scale it's pretty clear that Hypathia sided with the pagans, but in religious matters she didn't side with anyone