Worked behind a high volume gun counter for many years. Sometimes you just shake your head at the mounting solutions people come up with only to blame the optic for their issues. I would estimate that over 90% of the problems I saw were user error. Whether it was a loose base or over torqued rings, or a gamet of issues with the rifle as mentioned here. Another awesome podcast, and one worthy of a massive viewership. PS: Rueben & Ryan are my heroes.
Great episode as always. I called your customer service line recently and was very satisfied with the experience. Thank you, Vortex, for being a model company.
If you have a weatherby, touching the action screws Voids your 1 MOA guarantee. I found out the hard way. I bought a expensive vanguard that shot 2 MOA at best over many factory loads and hand loads. I took the stock off to check the bedding. That's the first thing customer service asked about. If it doesn't shoot send your gun and right away.
As an old guy, I can give you a variable! I used to be able to shoot really good groups with an 8 or 9X scope. Now in my mid 50’s I need 12x to see how I’m holding on a 1” dot In the center of a target. About the time you need two pair of glasses, for near and far. You probably ought to think about increasing magnification on your scope, if shooting for group size…
Great episode, all vendors and dealers need to watch this show; also other Optics manufacturers could learn a lot from Vortex... especially Scorpion Optics, out of Canada.
I work as a rangemaster at my local range and around hunting season we always get folks with thinking their scopes aren't shooting right. First thing I always do is put another experienced shooter behind it first to make sure the problem isn't behind the gun. Its always funny that guys are happy to hear that no their gear isn't broken, they just need more practice.
I just got a new scope, and was using some very cheap ammo to get on paper. Once "zerod" I was still getting 3-4moa groups, as soon as I switched to my Match ammo, my very first group was 1/2 moa. I can't overstate how important good reliable ammo is.
Thanks for the info! My coworker was having trouble with his rifle, had beachball size groups at 100 yds. I remembered this video and checked out his gun for him. Action screws, rings, and mounts were all loose. Tightened those to spec and borrowed him a scope that was not amber colored due to age, and Got the groups down to a golf ball. Just in time for the WI opener, too.
Definitely learned something today. Never considered action screws. Went and pulled all my main guns out of the safe and checked all of them with a multi-bit screwdriver. And some were definitely a little loose. Interesting even across the same brand. Had 2 guns were tight, but the 3rd was a little loose. All the same brand too. Was struggling with a different gun not grouping great. Rear screw was definitely loose. Hopefully that fixes my issue
I'm already missing the cartridge wars. Could we see family cartridge comparisons? For example, 243, 7mm-08, and 308 in ballistic gel? And maybe a comparison in the ol' '06 family? 270 win, 280 rem, 30-06, 338-06 and 35 whelen????
You are definitely SPOT ON with the AMMO!! I got a Tikka 30-06 that shot a .28 inch group, and when I switched ammo for my group testing ammo, I went to over 3 inches on the next group. I've seen this in everything from 223 to Ryan's favorite 7 Rem Mag. Also, Copper bullets change if you've been shooting lead core bullets. Love your videos and Spaghetti Shootouts!!!
Same experience with my weatherby, my GF's tikka loves federal fusion and hornady eld-x. Both group great but POI is 6 inches difference including 3 inches of lateral.
I have a Winchester Renegade LR/SR .308 with a Vortex Viper 6.5-20X 50 Scope (dead hold reticle). From day one I put a muzzle break on it right out of the box. After listening to this I am thinking these poor groupings, the odd flyer may be the muzzle break. It seems to always be on the 3rd shot... but the groupings on this rifle should be WAY better. I am using this rifle to Mule Deer hunt (first ever hunt!) and need to sort this out fast. I really wish I had someone experienced like you guys who could shoot the rifle and help figure this out because I have no idea.
It's still shocking to me that dissembling any rifle you buy and checking everything and properly loctiting and torquing your screws isn't what everyone does. Whether it's a bolt gun or an AR. And honestly, that's why I think so many people are moving to buying AR's as parts to assemble, it's cheaper and I'm going to go through and double check everything anyways, so might as well save some money.
Why should you have to? Do you tear down the engine and transmission when you buy a new car? I spent 25 years in manufacturing and our products were expected to work on arrival.
@@MaxWray111 Because item price and anticipated use play an important role. A $300-2000 dollar item that just needs to be overall safe to shoot, and where it’s rare someone will take the time to send it back to the manufacturer, isn’t the same thing as a 40 thousand dollar car that will cost the manufacturer thousands in repairs if things aren’t done to a more exacting standard. Manufacturers are able to be held more accountable the higher the cost and the more regulated the industry. The act of purchasing a gun is regulated, but the products themselves have very little regulation, again, other than simply making them safe enough to shoot, which is a pretty low bar. So in my experience most firearms manufacturers aren’t great at always getting the small details right. It’s an easy 15 minutes to go through and double check it yourself. Well worth it. With that said, any new vehicle I buy gets a thorough and inspection to ensure that major safety items are properly fastened, torqued, and correct fluids at the right level.
why doesn't anyone ever address the "places to avoid" on the tube of any scope due to the internal moving parts? I see a lot of people clamping rings in the wrong area of the tube resulting in stress to internal components and producing bad groups.
The ammo settle in, if you clean it you may not have to shoot many to get it to settle in. Ron spomer did a video about needing to clean the barrel with copper soilds. Would love if you got ron on a video like this to talk about things
Just came here to say that I was recently looking at the Vortex Careers page on the website (just for fun). I spotted a Ryan and I believe a rare beardless Mark! Am I right? Love the podcast and appreciate the knowledge you bring to the table. Keep it going, gents!
How do I get a Ryan tinfoil hat mug? If that was on the vortex website I’d buy one for every member of my family! And to answer 99.9% of the people out there, it’s the Indian not the arrow… Vortex makes some pretty darn good gear.
When you guys brought up the switching between ammo and having to burn another box through it before it’ll shoot right again, once it is infact shooting within your expectations would you leave it alone and not clean it while hunting with that particular round and then clean it for the next ammo switch? I’ve heard so many different opinions on cleaning rifles once it’s grouped
I was just dealing with my scope doesn’t spot right this weekend! Had some vertical stringing and noticed my scope had shifted about 1/4” in the mount. Everything was properly torqued but I had sand blast and cerakote the mount…… Im thinking maybe I messed up the inside diameter of the mount. 🤷♂️
Thank you. I went with a 3x15 ffp venom for my .308 Ruger American Predator. What's your thoughts with this combo? Im in California, so I'm waiting 2 weeks for my to receive my rifle before I can try it out.
I am entering my second season of hunting and am looking for some advice on my Diamondback Tactical 4-16 x 44. I’ve noticed when I compare to other (pricier) scopes in my local shops they have a much crisper and precise click in the turrets compared to mine. When I adjust my elevation turret there is almost .5 MRAD of “squish” before my turret will click to the next adjustment. Does this mean my reticle is also moving ever so slightly, or does is that just a sensation in the turret? Could this be used as a fine tuning effect for say, adjust 0.75 mrads (7.5 clicks)? Also, if you guys used this scope how far out would you shoot before the smooshy turrets took your certainty away? Thanks, -Jubal.
I bought an expensive 3-15x and can’t hit anything now so it’s the scope’s fault. Is it though or do you just suck from using a cheap 24x optic and can’t see what you’re shooting at now?
I upgraded my scope (bad luck) right about the same time my barrel got shot out. I have a new rifle, and the up-graded scope, but it took quite a bit of figuring out before I realised I broke the rifle, and the scope was perfect.
I would like to talk to someone about the strike eagle 5x25 I have on a 22lr. The eye box is horrible!! I spend more time trying to find a full image then shooting. I hate it, I can just blink and spend 5 mins trying to get back right
You ever shoot a Monstrum scope? Worst scope on the market. Can't find a good eye relief on that scope. Had 3 of them, I will never buy another scope from them
Talking about completely bottoming out the elevation adjustment and losing your wind windage because you are dealing with a radius radiused tube....why aren't scopes built with a square tube instead of a circular tube?
You ever shoot a Monstrum scope? Worst scope on the market. Can't find a good eye relief on that scope. Had 3 of them, I will never buy another scope from them
You guys missed the opportunity to have this episode, 357, to be an everything.357! Any cartridges throughout history utilizing .357” projectiles
I agree.
Worked behind a high volume gun counter for many years. Sometimes you just shake your head at the mounting solutions people come up with only to blame the optic for their issues. I would estimate that over 90% of the problems I saw were user error. Whether it was a loose base or over torqued rings, or a gamet of issues with the rifle as mentioned here. Another awesome podcast, and one worthy of a massive viewership. PS: Rueben & Ryan are my heroes.
I know guys who insist on putting electrical tape between the scope and the ring.
We need a 10 (or 50) minute talk on Ryan's 280!
Great episode as always. I called your customer service line recently and was very satisfied with the experience. Thank you, Vortex, for being a model company.
If you have a weatherby, touching the action screws Voids your 1 MOA guarantee. I found out the hard way. I bought a expensive vanguard that shot 2 MOA at best over many factory loads and hand loads. I took the stock off to check the bedding. That's the first thing customer service asked about. If it doesn't shoot send your gun and right away.
As an old guy, I can give you a variable! I used to be able to shoot really good groups with an 8 or 9X scope. Now in my mid 50’s I need 12x to see how I’m holding on a 1” dot In the center of a target. About the time you need two pair of glasses, for near and far. You probably ought to think about increasing magnification on your scope, if shooting for group size…
Minute-of-pie-plate at 1000 yards is fantastic
Great episode, all vendors and dealers need to watch this show; also other Optics manufacturers could learn a lot from Vortex... especially Scorpion Optics, out of Canada.
I work as a rangemaster at my local range and around hunting season we always get folks with thinking their scopes aren't shooting right. First thing I always do is put another experienced shooter behind it first to make sure the problem isn't behind the gun. Its always funny that guys are happy to hear that no their gear isn't broken, they just need more practice.
I just got a new scope, and was using some very cheap ammo to get on paper. Once "zerod" I was still getting 3-4moa groups, as soon as I switched to my Match ammo, my very first group was 1/2 moa. I can't overstate how important good reliable ammo is.
Thanks for the info! My coworker was having trouble with his rifle, had beachball size groups at 100 yds. I remembered this video and checked out his gun for him. Action screws, rings, and mounts were all loose. Tightened those to spec and borrowed him a scope that was not amber colored due to age, and
Got the groups down to a golf ball. Just in time for the WI opener, too.
Great session as always...looking forward to that .35Rem cartridge talk!
Definitely learned something today. Never considered action screws. Went and pulled all my main guns out of the safe and checked all of them with a multi-bit screwdriver. And some were definitely a little loose. Interesting even across the same brand. Had 2 guns were tight, but the 3rd was a little loose. All the same brand too. Was struggling with a different gun not grouping great. Rear screw was definitely loose. Hopefully that fixes my issue
I'm already missing the cartridge wars. Could we see family cartridge comparisons? For example, 243, 7mm-08, and 308 in ballistic gel? And maybe a comparison in the ol' '06 family? 270 win, 280 rem, 30-06, 338-06 and 35 whelen????
It's almost always loose screws in the scope mount. Twist rate and weight bullet is a given.
You are definitely SPOT ON with the AMMO!! I got a Tikka 30-06 that shot a .28 inch group, and when I switched ammo for my group testing ammo, I went to over 3 inches on the next group. I've seen this in everything from 223 to Ryan's favorite 7 Rem Mag. Also, Copper bullets change if you've been shooting lead core bullets. Love your videos and Spaghetti Shootouts!!!
If you want to change to copper, you most likely HAVE to clean you're barrel with carbon and copper solvent. I learned from experience
Same experience with my weatherby, my GF's tikka loves federal fusion and hornady eld-x. Both group great but POI is 6 inches difference including 3 inches of lateral.
I have a Winchester Renegade LR/SR .308 with a Vortex Viper 6.5-20X 50 Scope (dead hold reticle). From day one I put a muzzle break on it right out of the box. After listening to this I am thinking these poor groupings, the odd flyer may be the muzzle break. It seems to always be on the 3rd shot... but the groupings on this rifle should be WAY better.
I am using this rifle to Mule Deer hunt (first ever hunt!) and need to sort this out fast. I really wish I had someone experienced like you guys who could shoot the rifle and help figure this out because I have no idea.
1) A scope should track
It's still shocking to me that dissembling any rifle you buy and checking everything and properly loctiting and torquing your screws isn't what everyone does. Whether it's a bolt gun or an AR. And honestly, that's why I think so many people are moving to buying AR's as parts to assemble, it's cheaper and I'm going to go through and double check everything anyways, so might as well save some money.
Why should you have to? Do you tear down the engine and transmission when you buy a new car? I spent 25 years in manufacturing and our products were expected to work on arrival.
@@MaxWray111 Because item price and anticipated use play an important role. A $300-2000 dollar item that just needs to be overall safe to shoot, and where it’s rare someone will take the time to send it back to the manufacturer, isn’t the same thing as a 40 thousand dollar car that will cost the manufacturer thousands in repairs if things aren’t done to a more exacting standard.
Manufacturers are able to be held more accountable the higher the cost and the more regulated the industry. The act of purchasing a gun is regulated, but the products themselves have very little regulation, again, other than simply making them safe enough to shoot, which is a pretty low bar. So in my experience most firearms manufacturers aren’t great at always getting the small details right. It’s an easy 15 minutes to go through and double check it yourself. Well worth it.
With that said, any new vehicle I buy gets a thorough and inspection to ensure that major safety items are properly fastened, torqued, and correct fluids at the right level.
why doesn't anyone ever address the "places to avoid" on the tube of any scope due to the internal moving parts? I see a lot of people clamping rings in the wrong area of the tube resulting in stress to internal components and producing bad groups.
Thank you very much Mark!!! Keep up the great podcasts, man! ✌️
I kinda wanna see the image on Ryan's mug
The ammo settle in, if you clean it you may not have to shoot many to get it to settle in. Ron spomer did a video about needing to clean the barrel with copper soilds. Would love if you got ron on a video like this to talk about things
BackfireTV also did an episode on this phenomenon. Maybe the experts at Barnes or Hornady could explain it.
@@PeterWilliams-m6d yea, if im not mistaken is was some type of collaboration between them
Just came here to say that I was recently looking at the Vortex Careers page on the website (just for fun). I spotted a Ryan and I believe a rare beardless Mark! Am I right? Love the podcast and appreciate the knowledge you bring to the table. Keep it going, gents!
Maybe:)...Mark B.
How do I get a Ryan tinfoil hat mug? If that was on the vortex website I’d buy one for every member of my family! And to answer 99.9% of the people out there, it’s the Indian not the arrow… Vortex makes some pretty darn good gear.
I agree with you. I would buy a mug also lol
When you guys brought up the switching between ammo and having to burn another box through it before it’ll shoot right again, once it is infact shooting within your expectations would you leave it alone and not clean it while hunting with that particular round and then clean it for the next ammo switch? I’ve heard so many different opinions on cleaning rifles once it’s grouped
I was just dealing with my scope doesn’t spot right this weekend! Had some vertical stringing and noticed my scope had shifted about 1/4” in the mount. Everything was properly torqued but I had sand blast and cerakote the mount…… Im thinking maybe I messed up the inside diameter of the mount. 🤷♂️
Thank you. I went with a 3x15 ffp venom for my .308 Ruger American Predator. What's your thoughts with this combo? Im in California, so I'm waiting 2 weeks for my to receive my rifle before I can try it out.
I am entering my second season of hunting and am looking for some advice on my Diamondback Tactical 4-16 x 44.
I’ve noticed when I compare to other (pricier) scopes in my local shops they have a much crisper and precise click in the turrets compared to mine. When I adjust my elevation turret there is almost .5 MRAD of “squish” before my turret will click to the next adjustment. Does this mean my reticle is also moving ever so slightly, or does is that just a sensation in the turret?
Could this be used as a fine tuning effect for say, adjust 0.75 mrads (7.5 clicks)?
Also, if you guys used this scope how far out would you shoot before the smooshy turrets took your certainty away?
Thanks, -Jubal.
Love the podcast guys... but where can I get the coffee mug that Ryan is running?
should you use lock tite on the scope rings ie that hold the scope in the rings and then the ones to the action? Good video
I’ve always heard to loctite your base to the action, but not on the rings or ring bases themselves
Watching this as kind of confirmed that I need different rings on my rifle. The can't deliver I have wanted just isn't high enough.
I bought an expensive 3-15x and can’t hit anything now so it’s the scope’s fault. Is it though or do you just suck from using a cheap 24x optic and can’t see what you’re shooting at now?
Good info lads!
I upgraded my scope (bad luck) right about the same time my barrel got shot out. I have a new rifle, and the up-graded scope, but it took quite a bit of figuring out before I realised I broke the rifle, and the scope was perfect.
For long range.338 Lapua magnum what’s a good zero point for razor 6x36x56 moa
What gem of information were we denied at 44:58?
I would like to talk to someone about the strike eagle 5x25 I have on a 22lr. The eye box is horrible!! I spend more time trying to find a full image then shooting. I hate it, I can just blink and spend 5 mins trying to get back right
Cold bore dead center next two shots to the right group size .553" three shots hand loads, factory savage rifle
You ever shoot a Monstrum scope?
Worst scope on the market.
Can't find a good eye relief on that scope. Had 3 of them, I will never buy another scope from them
Talking about completely bottoming out the elevation adjustment and losing your wind windage because you are dealing with a radius radiused tube....why aren't scopes built with a square tube instead of a circular tube?
Weird distortion in the image with square lenses, maybe? Idk, great question for an optical engineer.
1 in 10 is plenty for 100gr 243, that’s the standard so if that’s the problem then there is missing information from the discussion
All my scopes shoot good. The dang ole crosshairs won’t hold still though. Just got to pull the trigger when it wavers by the ole bullseye. Shucks
There no such thing as 0 when it come to machining anything.
Ryan is on the wrong side this just dosent work for me sorry where is Jim
Why is Jimmy still MIA?
He's busy running the vortex edge facility
Comment of the week?? FIRST!
My scope wont shoot.
Can't even find the blasted trigger.
Most production rifles will not shoot 1 moa.
There is no way you can measure .001 with even the best of calipers.
One and a half hours? You mislabeled a 10 minute show again.
Like like like like
You ever shoot a Monstrum scope?
Worst scope on the market.
Can't find a good eye relief on that scope. Had 3 of them, I will never buy another scope from them