J.N. Darby the Father of Dispensationalism…or Maybe There Is More to the Story-With Crawford Gribben
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ต.ค. 2024
- In this edition of the popular podcast series "Thinking in Public," Albert Mohler speaks with historian and professor of history at Queen's University in Belfast, Northern Ireland, Crawford Gribben, about his new book, "J.N. Darby and the Roots of Dispensationalism."
You can watch more editions of Thinking in Public here: • Thinking in Public
You can watch my previous conversation with Professor Gribben about his book "The Rise and Fall of Christian Ireland" here: • Secularism, Seculariza...
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I miss "The Briefing." I would listen every day on my way home from work. I can't wait for its return.
Is it returning? That would be excellent.
Dr. Mohler takes the summers off from "The Briefing". He'll be back!😊
Dr. Mohler, what an interview!!!!! Very grateful for both of you!!!
I really appreciated this conversation. Very informative
Having grown up in a (closed) brethren background (N.Irish) and several years ago moving to Baptist fellowship, I still thank God for their high view of scripture and how that positively affected my life. Though I now fellowship with a Baptist congregation I have enormous respect for the “brethren.” Their missionary endeavours and gospel outreach are to be admired. Thankfully, as believers we can respect others viewpoints whilst not subscribing to them so that God may be glorified. I appreciated the tone of this discussion and wished it had gone into more depth! Most informative and in a positive way. One question I have and didn’t quite grasp was in regard to Darby’s catholicity or Anglo/catholicity. Could you help me understand what was meant? Thank you!
Had the privilege of meeting Crawford on several occasions here in Ireland. A gentleman and a scholar!
Excellent interview. I learned a lot. Many thanks, gentlemen.
I am looking forward to reading Crawford Gribben's book! Thank you so much for bringing this subject up for discussion!
What a fascinating discussion. In Australia we have quite a strong Plymouth Brethren presence. Darby was surely quite a substantial figure indeed.
As someone who grew up in the Brethren movement, I was hoping there would be an in-depth look at Darby's elitist background and his connection to the secret societies with Freemasons. I agree with a previous commenter that certain aspects of his teaching such as this throught of pre trim rapture wasn't created by Darby. A Jesuit priest trird to introduce it a little earlier than Darby. Paul was trying to separate the new believers away from traditions of men also called the law buy negating circumcision as a rite of passage for Fellowship, but he did not negate and abolish God's scripture and laws only man's dogma as found in Ephesians 2:10. If you read correctly in Acts you will see Paul honoring the feasts.
Paul was not creating end of law beginning of Grace theology.
Darby's idea not under law dispensation and law abolished is the equivalent to anarchy. God's kingdom is not a kingdom of anarchy but as Jesus said the laws tell us what love looks like he did not come to abolish the law and the laws will not disappear tell a new heaven and Earth is established. Who is God? Jesus Paul or Darby?
Also Darby's multiple second commings of Christ, do not line up with Scripture. we are called to fight for the kingdom of God. Evil continues to spread its heresies and doctrine. I know as a professor at Dublin you would like to honor this graduate. Spurgeon however takes pains to outline his heresies found in his Bible which first and foremost are denying the deity and worship of Christ. Paul himself tells us. End of story. We all have all we need to know. Darby is a bad man, period. I hope you didn't defend him. It sounded like you were going to so I ceased with your input.
I would appreciate an invitation to prove why john datrby is wrong. What and why he did it. Jerome's misinterpretation. Please. Invite me as a guest
I still don't understand why humans continue to oppose the reality of Galatians 2: 20 Proverbs 3:3-6 Matthew 6:21 psalm 55:14:18 🙏psalm 73:25,26 is it our fallen Ness that continues to seek it's own glory or our own deprivation of knowing or doubting our Holy Father's Love Grace and Mercy ❤️ AMEN
Thanks for the interview very enjoyable.
Fascinating interview and great content.
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Ephesians 3:2
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Colossians 1:25
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
1 Corinthians 4:1:
Let a man so account of us,
as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
That was very good; there was a lot that I didn't know about!
I have had the privilege of getting to know many Darbyite believers in France and Switzerland. Their assemblies are federally organised, and are probably equivalent to the exclusive Brethren in the UK. Nevertheless, they are delightful, extremely hospitable people, in the case of every single one that I met. They are humble, Christ-centred believers who love their children whether the latter continue in the faith or not. Not the slightest hint of exclusivism in terms of the way they personally relate to other believers, even though they do not participate in evangelism or community projects with other evangelical churches. In view of the welcome I always received into their churches and their homes, I do not hold that against them. I strongly disagree with their eschatology, but I have always found them to be open to talking about it and respectful towards those who disagree.
Haddon Spurgeon, Pastor of the Metropolitan Tabernacle and contemporary of Darby, published criticism of Darby and Brethrenism.[20] His main criticism was that Darby and the Plymouth Brethren rejected the vicarious purpose of Christ's obedience as well as imputed righteousness. He viewed these of such importance and so central to the Gospel that it led him to publish this statement about the rest of their belief in the Sword and Trowel.[21]
James Grant wrote: "With the deadly heresies entertained and taught by the Plymouth Brethren, in relation to some of the most momentous of all the doctrines of the Gospel, and to which I have adverted at some length, I feel assured that my readers will not be surprised at any other views, however unscriptural and pernicious they may be, which the Darbyites have embraced and zealously seek to propagate"[22
Well, we know his opinion. Don't agree but ok
I’m intrigued. I have never before heard that Darby and the Brethren rejected imputed righteousness. What is the source of that info? Thanks.
@@alanmunch5779 I've never heard that before. Not true. Plymouth Brethren do believe in imputed righteousness and vicarious substitionary suffering of Christ.
@@alanmunch5779 the qoutes are researched from wekibedia. See the numbrrs beloe each qout
@@melaniehughes8909 That's very substantive.
I have the collected writings of JND. They are of great help. 😊
Fascinating, thank you.
Magisterial exposition on Darby and his times.
Was introduced to dispensationalism at an early stage of my christian walk. If I look at its impact through the brethren, I ask myself.
1. Is there any meaningful understanding of the nature of the Kingdom, insofar as it is already present although not consumated? No. Is there any understanding of context? No.
2. If I look at the outcomes in people's lives amongst the brethren I know( lovely people) I see the effects of a diminished gospel as was being promoted. And resultant diminished lives. The biblical gymnastics, the resultant covering of the blind eye as regards injustices , the eschatalogically impacted outcomes ( in not supporting the gospel in Israel - and Christians there).. the list goes on , Darby adherence to me is like eugenics - its impact, look where that led? . But this is not a heresy hunt on my part, or a reason to not give one a " letter of introduction"..rather a sad reflection
What kind of dispensationalism are you referencing?
In my experience with calvinistic pastors, they've railed against Isreal screaming how we don't serve the same God and how they were the racist ones. I've discovered through the reaction to this war in Israel that I can't just agree to disagree anymore.
Now the kingdom on the other hand, I've always thought it was something "to come" the blessed hope that we're all praying for. I am quite confused on this, now AND also to come.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I look around and can't possibly see how this is supposed to be what heaven is like. Even for the believer who has complete trust in Jesus, they WILL experience persecution in this world. That's not like heaven. We as believer actually just have death to LOOK FORWARD TO rather than to dread because then we can finally have that one hug that makes all the bad stuff go away.
And I have the books of the early church fathers, they all believed in dispensationalism before Darby named it that! As a matter of fact it has been argued over throughout the time since Christ but the idea of us not actually having free will and being unable to make choices for ourselves comes from gnosticism that crept in between 300 and 400.
Eusebius talks about how trustworthy Papias's work is because of his extremely careful handling of messages from the Apostles and their disciples, then turns around and says he wasn't to bright because he believed differently than Eusebius himself.
The dead sea scrolls talk about ages, aeons, and unas. They actually seam to have been the jews that were actually looking for the messiah. There are documents that sound like Christian but still looking for Christ.
Darby may have named it but it was always there and in my search to defend Isreal to my pastor I've actually proven to myself that dispensationalism is what the Bible is truly teaching. Now I'm not going to take a stand on the chronology of the book of revelation yet. I'm not confident in their understanding of it and throughout history pastors have been claiming this is that and setting dates and obviously been wrong time and again. Seams like this is what has led people to say where is the promise of his coming? Our father's have said that forever!!! And they have. Imagine what kind of lives they lived though, thinking Jesus will come any moment. Imagine the pressure felt to save the lost with the good news before time was up. You know they were wrong to think they were wise enough to expand on the word of God but they were in the Word, knowing what it says and therefore what to watch for. I just imagine the imminency they felt to spread the gospel and that seams incredibly motivational to a Christian, me in particular
@@melaniehughes8909 You're instincts are spot on. Follow @randywhite - Randy White Ministries in Taos, NM - to learn about right division. 2 Tim 2:15 tells us to study ... by rightly diving the Word of Truth. Once we know how to discern God's programs over time, it all starts to make sense. All of the Bible is for us, but not all of it is to us. God's dealings w/ Israel are wholly separate from the Body of Christ, which wasn't prophesied. It's an entirely new program revealed exclusively to Paul - it's mystery, not prophesy, and it's a different Gospel. If we don't understand the difference b/w the gospel of the Kingdom and the gospel of Grace, we'll never escape the confusion of Christendom. The 12 Apostles preached the gospel of the Kingdom - repent and be baptized; Paul, the Apostle to tye Gentiles (wholly separate from Peter and the 12) preached the gospel of Grace - salvation by faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ alone - zero works required - to the Body of Christ, a new dispensation initiated by God since Israel wouldn't repent. The Body of Christ will dwell on heaven forever and the restored national Israel (after the raprure and tribulation) will reside forever in the post Kingdom new earth. The Body of Christ doesn't become Israel or receive its promises, blessings, or responsibilities; it's its own dispensation of grace whereby zero works are required. Paul is preaching a different message *gospel of the uncircumcision* to the Gentiles and Peter and the 12 are preaching the gospel of the circumcision to the Jews. Different gospels ... both require faith, but the content of that faith is very different. During this dispensation, the gospel of the Kingdom is inactive and everyone Jew and Gentile are saved by grace alone. That will end at the rapture and the Israel program will resume with Daniel's 70th week. The dispensation of the law (Israel) will resume for a short time until God establishes his future and physical Kingdom. When we let the Scriptures mean what they say, it all falls into place. No allegorizing, no spiritualizing ... just plain literal reading and understanding.
@@melaniehughes8909
Have you ever studied or read anything written by the proponents of inaugurated, enacted eschatology?
If you have then it would be interesting to know where you disagree. And obviously the above cannot be a cessationist position. That is unfortunately a suspended state for its adherents. As regards Israel, the absurdity continues. Christians do not or should not support states, they support God's kingdom. They cannot countenance evil wherever it occurs. Christians speak truth to power. And the King has inaugurated his kingdom.
It's false doctrine
This interview was a great encouragement to me. Thank you Dr. M.
I think I like this form better than the conservative news talk.
wow, I listened for a couple minutes and discerned words to no avail, just wow
Anyone believing that Darby created dispensationalism is mistaken. God gave Paul the dispensations - see Ephesians 3:2. 2 Tim 2:15 commands us to rightly divide the Word of Truth - when we do that understand that God has dealt with humanity in different ways at different times (the diispensations). Right division dispensationalism *different from the more classical approach* reveals the differences between Israel and the Body of Christ, which allows us to see the end times more clearly.
Paul was talking about dividing the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai from the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. In Galatians 3:16-29 Paul speaks of the temporary nature of the Old Covenant and in Galatians 4:24-31 Paul contrasts the "two covenants". We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the new covenant church of Mount Sion and the blood of Jesus in Hebrews 12:22-24..
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Paul’s interpretation in Galatians 3:8, 3:16.)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the word “remnant” in Romans 9:27, with the word “nation”?
6. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
7. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
8. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
9. Based on Hebrews 12:18-24, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
10. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
11. Watch the TH-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
(See what Joshua said about the Old Covenant land promise in Josh. 21:43.)
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and is it fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church, if the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20? (See also 2 Thess. 1:7-10) If the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant “obsolete” in Hebrews 8:6-13, why would God go back to the Old Covenant system during a future time period?
Read the recent book "The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism", by Daniel G. Hummel...
@@SpotterVideo Thanks for suggesting I watch videos which you presume (1) I haven't watched, and/or (2) that (re)watching them will change my mind. I'm a former covenantal Calvinist and researched plenty prior to adopting right division dispensationalism. The Body of Christ is mystery, not prophesy, and is a revelation given to Paul and Paul alone. The Body of Christ does not "replace" Israel as the recipients of the kingdom - God's Israel program is in pause during the dispensation of the grace of God (see Eph 3:2 KJV) which will conclude with the rapture of the church. Daniel's 70th week will commence with the tribulation followed by the dispensation of the kingdom during which Christ will reign over his kingdom - the restored nation of Israel - from the New Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Jesus and the 12 taught the gospel of the kingdom, which included repentance and baptism, etc. Peter continued to preach the gospel of the kingdom after the ascension as he had no idea what the gospel of grace - salvation by grace through faith alone - the mystery of the indwelling spirit (not prophesy, but mystery) - was. That wasn't revealed until God gave it to Paul. Right dividers reject the classical dispensational view that the Body of Christ begins in Acts 2 w/ Pentecost, but instead begins w/ Paul's conversion and the revelation of the mystery which was "hid from the ages" in mid-Acts. The scriptures show us that Paul wasn't just a different type of Apostle (appointed by God) to a different people (Gentiles) but that he carried a different message too - the gospel of grace. Thd gospels are Jewish books written to and for Jews: the Pauline epistles are written to and for Gentiles. Similarly, the Jewish epistles are to Israel, not the Body of Christ. All of the Bible is for us, but not all of the Bible is to us. This is a high-level summary of the RD position. I respect ypu may disagree, but a fair exchange of ideas is always a worthy endeavor, at least to me. I trust we both love the Lord very much as earnestly seek only truth.
@@kelleykeller
Proof the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled in the past:
Based on Hebrews 12:22-24, the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26 cannot be separated from the New Covenant fulfilled by His blood at Calvary. See the words "church" and "mount Sion" and "new covenant" and "Jesus" and "blood" in the passage.
Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant. Or, is the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28? The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby showed up on our shores about the time of the Civil War. What was the earlier understanding of Daniel 9:27 found below in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible?
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Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
.
@@kelleykeller AMEN to what you have written here. 1. The New Covenant was made with Israel and ONLY Israel, and anyone can see that it has yet to fulfilled. 2. Rightly dividing the Word of truth is not between the old and new covenant, it's between law and grace; mystery and prophecy; Israel and the Body of Christ; Israel's King and the body's Head. 3. As a former Calvinist, I always wrestled with election and predestination and the so-called 5 points. I've heard all of the arguments and read many of the books. The only honest conclusion I have ever been able to arrive at was that God chose some for Heaven and He chose the others for hell. "Oh, no!" they say. But there is no honest way around it. If man does not have free will (and he can't if God has predetermined it), he has no part in the selection process. Paul says, "WHOSOEVER calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." I have found tremendous peace in reading the Bible literally and dispensationally. Thank you kellykeller.
@@timothymcgarvey3127 It changed my life and brought me from confusion to clarity in Christ. We don't need Calvin, Darby, creeds, or confessions - we just need the Scriptures, rightly divided. It's all there and becomes more extraordinary the more I learn. Thank you for your comments here!
Delightful interview! Growing up in Orlando in the 60s, of course my parents gave me a Schofield Bible! Listening from Vanuatu. The Lord bless you!
Enjoyable video.
What a great interview. Learned so much.
Fyi, Al, Belfast is actually in Northern Ireland, not Ireland. Ireland is made up of the 26 Catholic counties which voted to secede for the UK just over 100 years ago. Northern Ireland remains part of the UK, i.e. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Good point. I was wondering why he kept saying "Ireland." Ireland is predominantly ROMAN CATHOLIC. WHICH Ireland?
Every now and then, somebody has to make up his "own" Gospel. Good for business for a while, but it doesn't save souls, it just beguiles and bamboozles them.
Excellent
37:57 Who coined the term dispensationalism? Distinction between Darby and Scofield.
40:50 Darby invented the secret rapture?
50:58 Israel and church distinction
This interview was helpful to me. Thank you!
I couldn't find any further information on the pamphlet your guest said was written by William Kelly as to knowing w here the ides of the Rapture came from. Can you provide any clarification? Thank you.
1 Thessalonians 4:
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I added a reply to your question but it seems to have been removed so I will try again. The reference to the origin of the rapture linking it with Thomas Tweedy can be found in The Heavenly Hope: The Rapture of the Saints: What Saith the Scripture? By William Kelly. It is available in the library of Bible Truth Publishers which can be accessed freely on the internet. I hope this he is helpful? David
Thank you so much. Exactly the information I was looking for.
@@davidporter7204 Thank you so much. Very helpful indeed!
Albert should remember there is a lot to critisize about Luther and Calvin. How about infant baptism? How about antisemitism? Yet, we all recognize their valuable contributions.
For his own tribal reasons Albert witholds like generosity toward Darby. Albert, why are you discussing Darby if he is so irrelevent?
Udoubtly Darby stimulated an unprecedented interest in escatology. This is a topic that Reformed theology is still very weak and divided on. 😮
The people behind Scofield (the publishing company) made sure of giving free Scofield “bibles” to all churches and theological seminaries.
The 'people' behind publishing Scofield's translation, refused to publish any Christian book prior to Scofield's. These 'people' had a very distinct reason and path towards a future goal, the formation of the State of Israel. The book's openly and prominent positioning of Jews with historical Christian belief, was manufactured and absolutely erroneous and it's impact is still felt today by many suffering people's.
So just a few thoughts on a great conversation:
1 a great deal of what we might call scholarly dispensationalism stays unwritten, becauuse Fundamentalists don't write. And frankly, i don't discuss it because there are a lot of crazies in the movement.
2.The brand of dispensationalism that I developed and was held by Dr Custer at BJU was by his admission closer to Darby than to anyone at Dallas or to Scoffield.
3. I am premill., however I consider eschatology the least interesting element, it is the distinction between Israel and the church I find most important, and useful.
What do you call it when you take a word in the Bible, alter the definition, and assemble a system of theology? Seems like 'dispensation' is a good term.
How so?
Messiah College has Plymouth. BRETHEREN roots. What if any connection does this group have with the Nazarene Church?
Dispensationalism, like much 19th-century thought, seems to have been influenced by Hegel's historiography.
How so?
No, not at all.
Ive actually wondered about that
Augusto Comte y J. N. Darby are conteporanies, They both seem to be literalists or positivists. How did they come to similar conclusions?
Good discussion but wish there was more. I'm disappointed more was not mentioned of the Irvingites and especially Margaret Macdonald's influence on Darby, Scofield, and especially Hal Lindsey. This issue... dispensation vs. covenant theology....has had huge repercussions in the West, especially the negative impact of premillennial/secret-rapture theology, that we're still feeling the impact of today.
Attended an open Brethren assembly for 8 years. I still have a Ryrie study Bible and William MacDonald Believers Commentary. One of the Elders was from DTS. Assembly split over Lordship Salvation controversy between MacArthur and Zane Hodges. Attended non denominational Evangelical afterwards. Didn’t get caught up in Scofield dispensationalism. This video conversation was very informative. I have found strong Biblical teaching from those who are Calvinist and those who are non Calvinist. Have read creeds and confessions from Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian and Lutheran camps. A lot in common, difference remains on mode of baptism and the Lords Supper. One thing they all have in common is…..they are considered outside the RCC and Eastern Orthodox Church. Early Church History…..pretty messy.
I live near Cairn University which has enshrined the Schofield aReference Bible on campus at Langhorne Manor, Pa. This helps me better understand the thousands of Cairn Alumni who are dispemsationalist adhere to a rigid form of Dispensationalist creationism tgat aggressively rejects theistic evolution which is taught in the public school.
I knew Bill Mac Donald well. 😊
You all know many people well.
Do you know Christ?
Does anyone know Jesus Christ?
Is anyone here a
NEW CREATION?
@@bernhardbauer5301 , Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Is He yours? I also have a heritage for which I am also thankful. I was taught by Godly men.
@@SaratoganYes!
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour.
He has given me His Gospel which is God's Gospel. By this Gospel a man is saved and becomes more and more saved.
Romans 5:10:
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
We who are in Christ are a new creation. However this Gospel is unknown to most believers and not preached by most preachers. In fact most preachers are sinners as you can see in so many scandals.
Do you read Paul?
Watch the TH-cam video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology", if you want to see the original source of the doctrine in black and white. It came first from Edward Irving's English translation of a book written by a Roman Catholic Jesuit priest named Manuel Lacunza. Irving taught doctrine from the book at the Albury Prophetic conference about 1826. John Nelson Darby taught the doctrine a few years later at the Powerscourt Prophetic conference. When Irving died of TB during 1834, Darby became the chief promoter of the new doctrine. Most of those promoting the doctrine today have no idea where it came from. If you search the thousands of pages of commentaries and sermons written at the time of the American Revolutionary War, you will not find the "Two Peoples of God" doctrine, which claims modern Jews will one day be saved outside of the Church.
They will be when Jesus returns and the Millennium kingdom isn't in the time of the GENTILES .
The church includes both Jews and GENTILES but the unbelieving Jews will be added when they see Jesus as the Messiah.
@@davidjanbaz7728
Based on what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. There is no Plan B of salvation based on race in Paul's words. All races of people need to the hear the Gospel now, before it is too late for them. See Plan A below.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below?
Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary?
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9.
The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Watch the TH-cam videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Garbage
Augustine was A Millennial
I thought the interview was wonderful, thank you!! But I think some of the comments are a mess lol. I am not a committed dispensationalist, but honestly the nonsense people claim about dispensationalists kinda makes me want to be just to stick it to them!! Recognize that is not the most Christlike response, but it really is frustrating to constantly see all the strawmanning that happens when dispensationalism comes into the conversation.
Return "The brieing"!
Dispensationalism by John Darby of Plymouth Brethren UK 1880's is false doctrine. Billy Sunday Popularizes the sinners prayer of invitationalism made up by Billy Sunday 1900s
almost all NCTs i know are not PreMill
Ephesians 3:2-7 KKJV.
Alguien lo puede traducir al español.
Great show! Thank you Crawford for your great research and showing some balance toward Darby. Having been amongst both Exclusives (35 yrs, then Opens (5+yrs w/some "Independents"-who are really Opens)), I doubt hardly any PBer knows half of what you've researched. Unfortunately, it's very hard to read Darby (probably from his lawyer mind) giving long thoughts, but I do remember his book on Hebrews being wonderful. However, in my experience, elder Darby seems to have been less "open" to the point of there almost being 2 Darbys. Mueller's comments on Darby are also interesting ("...I chose to cling to my Bible and part from Mr. Darby.") Mueller and Spurgeon defended Newton - ah yes, and then there's the "Bethesda Question". In my experience, today's PBs never mention Calvinism (although some have spoken on election), Reformed Theology, and even Opens despising Calvinism (Mueller must be turning over in his grave), and accepting pretty much easy believism for the gospel they hold to. Opens were very missions minded (particularly India), and Closeds are barely hanging on these days. Oh, and the splits... One can also hardly believe the behavior of the Raven/Taylors. In my lifetime, I've seen 2 assemblies of one particular Closed group disappear. A lot of great believers, but a lot of bad teaching, and difficulty biblically challenging anyone who believes their message was "of the Lord" or "from the Spirit." but that's another topic.
Not only do I recommend your book, I also recommend research by Timothy C. F. Stunt, especially on Darby's influences (Jansenists & others).
It’s Northern Ireland ya Ganch!
That's a great Gaelic expression, Josh! 🤣
I seem to think Darby and his family were part of the ascendency- and Southerners.
Professors,
Titels,
Great and important people.
Does this mean anything?
Does anyone of them know God?
Although my reading of scripture and study I am no premil or dispensationalism pre-mil but glad they shared Darbism and its danger
Sorry Mr Mohler. I have no idea what dispensational is about. Really not on my list of concerns.
I never paid any attention to it until quite recently. As I got in deeper, my interest perked up. A lot of prominent Christian figures who came across my path were "dispensationalists," and I didn't even know it or what it meant. Now I do, and it matters, since I do NOT believe in their interpretation.
Interesting that you talk about this subject, there are seven dispensations. The one that I have been pondering lately is the dispensation of Noah which I now greatly understand to be so much of the importance to protect the birthright of the family of Adam. The bible is about the family of Adam. And The God of Abraham (Jesus) knew what was to come and for approximately 40 years Noah built an ark as commanded and gathered those animals, seed and food storage and supplies local to him for their reproduction and survival. But God knew he had to preserve this man and his family. His sons were children when he started. They did not yet have their own families, if so they are not mentioned. This last dispensation was ushered in with revitalization after the dark ages.
False teachers
I would suggest putting Darby on a par with other leaders in the last 200 years years it disapointing. The result of Darby's theology of separation has caused misery for thousands of Christians..splitting families
.it goes back to the Bethesda Question in the 1850..
Is correct practice the basis
Of fellowship or taking the creeds as our guide