I just love how "old" k-pop stars now can speak up a little more about their opinions on the industry, and being allowed to do their own thing. I am so proud of Amber! And forever waiting for a F(x) comeback.
I wish Tiffany and Amber could talk more deeply about it though. I'm curious about the dark side of Kpop. But since they're still in their agencies they could only skate across the surface.
One big difference from western groups that I think makes kpop successful is that kpop groups don't just sing, they perform. Kpop includes a combination of dance and music. In kpop, dancing is almost if not as important as singing. In the western music industry, dancing isn't as prevalent but kpop songs have dance routines that people associate with every song. The dance routines add to a song being iconic and memorable. The fact that kpop is more than just music is the reason why it's so popular
Connecting with fans is also a huge part of it. K-pop stars are like influencers who do everything. Moreso than just the songs, dances and performances, the main attraction is actually the members themselves. You get to know them through variety shows, interviews, V live, and they churn out so much content that you almost feel closer to them than your friends. Memes and crack videos enhance perceptions of them; shipping and fanfics stimulate fantasies about them; their SNS availability, fan meetings and fan chants allow you to feel interactive; and the quick turnaround between comebacks and your ability to contribute to their success on five different music shows a week fosters a much greater feeling of loyalty and tribalism. It's like they're there for you everyday doing new stuff and while that's awesome, I can see why on the other hand it can lead to a feeling of possessiveness that can get out of hand and also be truly devastating when your group disbands.
Not even that. Fan meets, hi touch, constant fan exposure and gathering new fans. Its more than fame, dance and music. Imagine getting one fan, thats instantly atleast 3 album per cycle.
on the other hand, you can't ignore the sheer number of kpop groups compared to western groups. in s. korea, the formation of kpop groups is basically a business model where men and women audition for a spot whereas for western groups, going into the music industry is still considered an artistic endeavor and a journey that you as an individual or group must embark on alone when finding a record producer and such (exception being shows like American Idol and The Voice). it's because of this competition that members are expected to be able to sing and dance in order to stand out. on top of that, once a group forms, they have to compete with existing groups to land pr segments meaning they have to present a look and feel that is different than others. you could say that the popularity of kpop isn't so much that they're so much better than western groups but that since there are so many, it's like throwing a handful of darts at a corkboard; you're bound to have one that sticks. don't get me wrong, i'm not downplaying the efforts of kpop groups. their work ethic is admirable and it's kind of sad to see how many idols run themselves ragged trying to keep that competitive edge but it's not so simple as saying one group does one thing more than another group; it's the overall culture.
@@xfactr1009 I agree and disagree because in Korea for the most part, the only way to become a singer is to go through a company. In the western music industry there are a bunch of different ways to become successful. Yes, you have to make it on your own but you also don't need a company to be successful. You can do it on your own and not have to wait for a company to approve in various different ways so in that regard, there are way more American artists, especially with the internet and sites like youtube
Amber brought up the most important observation and that's the K-pop industry being saturated. It's so damn competitive compared to the West because companies are investing so much money into these groups. At the end of the day, it's a business. There's plenty of talent and passionate people, but building an audience who will support your group and having members that work well together are essential aspects in longevity.
But the thing is the Kpop "model" was not built for longevity, which is why you hear about the "5 year curse" or the "7 year curse". Kpop is about making as much money as possible in a short amount of time. For the industry to become less saturated companies need to start making groups for the long term. As it is going right now the Kpop industry is getting less and less profitable especially in the Korean market. If the model doesn't change the industry won't stay afloat.
In a way to think, the artists are the 'products/packages' sold to the audiences and this is when your point comes in. I think the business model should also depends on the the audiences' view of what the 'idols' should be like. As Amber said, she is considered 'old' in this saturated industry not only because of the existing competition but also the way the audiences view/perceive that the idols 'should' be young (lets say ~16-2x for now) and how/why they are best suited in the industry. Is the saturation of the industry caused by the model itself or the audiences instead? It's a debatable question imo. Indeed this is a very complex issue as you have to take socioeconomic/cultural/psychological factors into account. Also there is no absolute truth at understanding the Kpop system (if only this is a dissertation lol).
I totally agree with Amber's last point. This is actually one of my biggest frustrations as a kpop fan, that talented groups come and go so quickly. I know a huge reason for this is that the companies assume each group will only last a few years, so they try to wring as much money out of them as possible while they can. Then they either get burnt out and quit, or the company switches focus to their new group and forgets about the older group, even if the older group still has lots of fans. It seems like a ridiculous business model, especially with how much time and money is invested into their training, and the fact that it's easier to keep existing fans than create new ones. I just wish companies could switch their mindset from "maximize short-term profit" to "nurture long-term careers". Let them work at a more sustainable pace. Give them more creative freedom. Allow artists and groups to evolve and mature and change their style. Imagine if Beyonce had been dropped after a few hits. We would've missed out on some of her best work. It hurts to think about how much great music we've missed out on from Korean artists because their companies never gave them the chance to grow.
That's also kind of what happened in the US in the late 90s and early 2000s, when there were loads of boy and girl bands who danced as well, and were on US and UK talk shows, MTV's TRL and the UK's children's/teen's Saturday morning shows, Top of the Pops etc. Lots of smaller US record companies were bought out/amalgamated with larger companies, which just focused on getting as much money as they could from the existing signed bands and artists, without understanding the music (because of new management with differing music genre backgrounds) and didn't give as much creative freedom, wanting to stick to the "known formula" that worked. I would assume it's always been like this to an extent, record companies or producers wanting to stick to the "known formula" of the times (just watched Bohemian Rhapsody the other day with a mention of this). After all, they exist to make money. Coming as a Hanson fan, as well as a fan of Amber and F(x), what you mentioned @Kat the Cat, seems to be a prevailing problem in the industry to this day. The record companies still see the artists and bands having an "expiration date". Hence why Hanson took the huge risk back in the 2000s to leave their then signed record company and started their own, but not without problems (they made a documentary on the whole ordeal). Luckily Hanson had, and continue to have, a huge supportive fan base and have been innovative in expanding their business and other ventures. Unfortunately, if F(x) tried to do that in Korea, they could possibly be (indirectly) blocked from all those traditional radio and TV outlets in Korea with all the variety talk shows and such due to the influence of their current management company. Even if they try to do it in the US, although they have a large international fanbase, it may still prove to be difficult for them to survive due to the different business models that Amber mentioned. PS: my comment might seem a bit like it's all over the place, if so, please forgive me. It's 5am almost 6am, I saw Amber and WongFu and just had to watch and read/make some comments 😅. Back to sleep now~ *Always hoping for an F(x) comeback* 😉
That’s the thing with fame, it comes and goes. You’re either a one hit wonder or struck gold and maintain fame for awhile till it buzzes off. There’s also the marketing tactics that companies use. SM has well-maintained their groups popularity at a stagnant result seeing as their older groups are still active and doing work here and there. Can’t say the same for the other companies.
at the same time, you have to see that companies that DO operate on such a long term model, such as SM which always makes their artists sign a 10 year contract, have struggled for years with artists calling it a "slave contract" and leaving/terminating their contract early. supporting a group for that long also requires a LOT of money, money which most companies don't have.
@@justlim622 i was about to comment it, because after enlistment the people won't be as hyped about the group as they did before. It would also be hard for the kpop boy groups to go with the trend after enlistment.. After all kpop almost always showcases "youth".
Wes is right. You wouldn’t watch anime dubbed, and if an “anime” would be made in the US then it wouldn’t be anime. It’s culture that specifically represents a people & nation
Although you could draw some inspiration and some non-Japanese artists are pretty good at getting the feel in their design and art while keeping their individuality (some of them work in Japan and can be quite hard to notice the difference). After all modern Japanese animation had some influences from American animation as well (Disney). The term "anime" is mostly a Western thing. Japanese just treat every animation the same basically. While Westerns use it to separate from other animations and even calling it a style by itself. I remember a time during the 80s when Japanimation was more used and the only thing going for it was just animation from Japan. In Brazil and I imagine Latin America as well (Europe notably France has their own interesting history as well), the term anime was also slowly adopted as this more unified one we have now after the internet. Otherwise, it wasn't treated much differently from cartoons or European animation and people had a harder time distinguishing any difference as lot of cartoons were animated by Japan back then and they kinda had the same vibe. I think Koreans are pretty good at mimicking the feel (as they are already used in the industry) if they aim for it (I forgot the name of the sci-fi movie, it's pretty much indistinguishable for Japanese ones). Chinese is quite a hit-and-miss. Art style is pretty close, but they don't quite get the feel right yet unless their production is shared with Japan. Still it's a bit harder to point what is wrong exactly. I guess the differentiation happened more with the rise of the Internet anime fandom and its relative homogenization in the West (I can't say much about in Asia outside Japan itself), the Cool Japan thing promoted by Japanese government (if it had any impact at all), and some of the big anime series in the late 90s changing the landscape of the Japanese anime and their local fandom, and probably more factors I'm ignoring. It's an interesting subject and more complex than people give credit (specially American folks that dismiss anime because of its fandom beginnings). This anime feel and the marketing term is quite hard to point out and can cause lot of semantic wars.
Nadine r Unfortunately they didn’t actually make it to the regular k-pop charts such as Gaon, Melon or Mcountdown. They only made the k-pop section in iTunes. 😓
Smile it’s still good that both their parody songs passed the actual famous kpop groups on itunes (their second song even ended up #1) with the fact that they made both of them as a joke😂
It was so nice listening to them talk about other great artists like BoA, Girls Generation, and Wonder Girls. I wish Amber could’ve talked more about her personal experience as an f(x) member, but I understand if she can’t
Amber is very well spoken and smart. Glad there is a kpop idol who can talk about the topic in an intelligent manner and explore the different facets of the industry. Too bad the lunch wasnt longer.
This makes me think of tiffany young, who after leaving SM is doing her own thing in english. The views arent as big as when she was with snsd but her popularity is growing and her music is all really good and trying to break away from all the kpop stuff and “re-debut”
I love Tiffany Young and I love Girls' Generation. I respect and am very proud that Tiffany has gone her own way to create music that reflects her. I'm a hardcore sone and stan SNSD. However, I think it's kind of unfair to Tiffany that people keep trying to push SNSD's Tiffany persona onto Tiffany Young. Been reading tweets on her recent tour how people keep asking her to sing SNSD/TTS songs and what not. Like yes, it's freaking Tiffany Hwang in our midsts. And we're all nostalgic and miss SNSD. But I think we should give Tiffany Young the stage light where she's not SNSD's Tiffany, but just Tiffany Young. A veteran who knows her stuff and is being vulnerable to us fans to show her songs.
@@filipinopride4127 i went to her show last night in new york and it was amazing. She did end up singing a little on of into the new world at the end but that was it. she also sang a few of her korean songs but the emphasis was on her new album
@@xxoczukxx Yeah I went to her show in Chicago. LOVED it. We sang into the new world together and ofc everyone was yelling for her to sing TTS songs. But my goodness, wasn't she amazing???
"I miss when pop groups would dance" MEEE TOOO I feel like I watch KPop, not just because of the music but because they are actually dancing instead of standing and singing, they are active on stages and everything. (I talked about this-this morning lol)
I feel like if any Korean label were to start crossing that divide, it’d be JYP. They’re already starting to build up a record of recruiting local talent, training them under the intense kpop system, and then helping them promote in their own country and native language. JYP has done it with Boy Story (young Chinese kids), and they’re going to start the Nizi Project later this year to recruit Japanese girls to form a Japanese girl group that’ll promote in Japan. With that international mindset, I could see them branching out into the USA in the future as well
It's because it's the next step in hallyu wave, the localization if I'm not mistaking you can find out the conferences of Lee Soo Man and JYP here on TH-cam where they explain about it
@@nnnnnn7433 You do understand that JYP has been doing this since they recruited Taec, Nichkhun, Jay Park, and Changmin in perhaps 2006, right? They've been doing this for so long but in little doses, just a maximum of 3 non-Korean residents in a group. And now that they're confident enough in handling a full-blown international group into the K-Pop system, hence they started pursuing this business model on a larger scale.
JYP already crossed that divide before it was popular and expected of a Korean company to do so. And also, JYP produced English songs for the Wonder Girls to promote over here in the US, they even sang with Akon and toured with the Jonas Brothers before. So it''s been happening, it's just more viral now because of the presence of social media.
I felt the sadness that Amber really wanted to focus on music and fulfill her passion and the kpop industry (or the company) limits it or doesn’t provide enough support. However, i’m so happy that she can speak up/stand up for herself now regarding her career. I hope she gets more success!!
I agree with how rapid and lasting current popularization can be is a result of technological and cultural developments. That’s why fame is so circumstantial. You may say current groups are “better” than older groups because they became more popular globally faster, but that really isn’t the case. 2nd Gen K-pop groups like Girls Generation were huge during their time. You could say they were the definition of a successful group. While their American appearances aren’t as huge as recent ones, I’m sure it was one of the biggest achievements of K-pop at the time, especially considering the previous limitations of acceptance.
That's very actually very well said. I guess people tend to forget that generations build off of each other too. One generation's success is a stepping stone to another generation's surpassing success. If that makes sense.
Keep in mind that Kpop is a blend of Pop, Dance, R&B, HipHop, Latin, Rap and they blended it into this really cool thing. But the music didn't originate from Korea, they just took it to a new level and blended it into what we call Kpop. The training is the key thing and Americans aren't really into allowing a big company subsuming all that they are to produce a single product. Asian culture supports the idea of the group being more important than the individual. That's hard for most Americans to live by because we're not taught that here. When the Backstreet Boys were being controlled by their manager, everybody got upset about that fact. We tend to value artists who have more control, which is an appeal that BTS capitalizes on. What I like about Kpop is the production value, good music, and outstanding choreography.
Lots of American artists work within the same strictures that hold Kpop groups and artists and there are lots of kpop artists that have the same formula as BTS but people have lots of generalizations when it comes to kpop. Pop groups have been put together in America as well and lots of kpop artists in groups have individual things going on, with some members getting more famous in certain fields than other members, just like what happens with a lot of America groups which is why so many tended to break up. People seem to ignore the struggles almost all artists have with their management at some point and contracts that often suck for the artist.
@@GopherCakeStuff I agree that music companies are much the same all over, but cultural expectations are different in the lives of the artists. We here in america expect our artists to have individual lives. We expect them to date, for example. In Asia, idols are expected to not date and maintain the fantasy of availability. Dating is treated like a scandal in Asia. I use that as an example of the cultural difference. Any musician that has any degree of success has had to work their butts off to make it. Kpop artists in particular work insanely hard. I respect these kids so much.
I agree with your last point. The main difference between American music and Kpop is that American artists are expected to be making and producing their own music whereas the companies do that all for the Kpop artists.
I think most of you are forgetting that the American music industry is much older than the Korean one. In other words, the artist here has been there and done that. Motown was the Kpop industry before there was one. It was a machine that taught the artist how to professionally sing, dance, act, etc. etc... and also created groups much like Kpop does now. But the company benefited more from all that hard work than the artist. Many of them had fame but not financial rewards for all that hard work. The artist here has spent decades trying to fight for control over their careers and ownership of their work. If you are an artist you want to own your music and have rights to those royalties, so you can keep earning years down the road. NSYNC and Backstreet boys are good examples of being huge and was screwed by the management team when it came to the money. You have to remember if the company doing all the work behind the scenes then they technically have the right to own the right to the songs and take most the financial reward. I feel that many idols are now wanting to have that kind of control and freedom over their careers as time goes on. That hard to do in Korea cause the companies have that industry on lockdown, but as they get bigger here they will have the opportunities to branch out on their own and/or negotiate better deals.
Anyone confused about why Amber may not know certain groups or other things currently happening in Kpop, this was filmed a while ago and she’s very busy. It’s impossible to know everything about everything.
Her points though are relevant and true in this current generation as well. She's looking at it with the American view and her experience in K Pop. She's not lying about the industry. It doesn't matter what groups are relevant today. Not in this discussion. All pop groups will be on the decline sooner or later. It's a cycle they go through. For K Pop the cycle is fast but shorter time span.
kpop for me is korean people singing in their native language, if they‘d sing only in english (a foreign language) they‘d lose some of their essence cause i think the korean language is quite komplex and also beautiful and things would get lost in transition.... the message of the songs still get conveyed if people just read the lyrics translations, i mean i guess it would be convenient to fully understand all the lines when listening but it‘s not necessary
AyanamiRei5kyu I don't quite understand what you mean. You say if the song was in English things would get lost in translation, yet you then say the message would get conveyed if you read translations of the original song. Also, what do you find particularly complex and beautiful about the Korean language? In my opinion, all languages are beautiful and complex. For me, Kpop is like American pop but with a lot of emphasis on strong performances and dancing and all of that. I find that is what appeals to me about Kpop. Therefore, for me, Kpop would not lose its essence if it were in English.
@Vanessa Pardun yes that's your opinion and that's fine... my statement "things get lost in TRANSITION but the message will get conveyed through translation" is not contradictory... first, it's one thing to write complete english lyrics from the get go versus translating lyrics from korean... for the first one: certain nuances or references in komplex korean lyrics would get lost if one would want to write songlyrics entirely in english... i like english as a language as well but it's very different and in my opinion quite simply structured (again it's just my opinion)... when i say the message gets through via translation i mean that the core meaning can be still understood but not every little detail or reference... i don't know how much you looked deeply into lyrics but for me quite a few bts songs hold meanings i would not have understood if they didn't come with translator expanations... examples are ddaeng or spine breaker or satoori rap, they come with references/sayings/korean culture aspects that you just can't express in english... anyways your definition of kpop is artists/groups which come with the whole package of performance, entertainment, personality, music, fashion etc and that makes sense and that's great if that's kpop for you! i don't think there's a universal definition for kpop cause it's so complex and diverse there is no right or wrong! for me personally the k in kpop stands for korean so i prefer songs mainly sung in the korean language, you don't have to like or agree with my definition, you can think that it's wrong but maybe you could also accept that every person has different opinions and that's okay :) but out of curiosity: so for you kpop is not bound to nationality, ethnicity, language? it's just the aspect of emphasis on performance or dancing? so if americans who sing in english but can dance and have flashy outfits would that be kpop? or do they have to be korean (and them singing in english is fine)? or as long as they're asian? or can it be anyone as long as they went through training and debuted with a korean company? in this case is kpop just a "product" shaped my the korean entertainment industry/companies? (i think that would be a pretty accurate definition as well) just wanna know how other people define kpop
AyanamiRei5kyu I think I understand. I think songs like Ddaeng are kind of special cases I suppose. The English equivalent I guess could be This is America, you don't understand it if you don't come from a racially diverse country where black people and minorities are mistreated, you may not understand. However, it must be addressed that not all Kpop songs are like that. Many are kind of just cookie cutter pop songs, partying, having a crush on a guy/girl, break ups, universal experiences. I think the raps in Ddaeng aren't like typical Kpop raps, rapping is usually very cultural, it has a deeper meaning beyond just those cookie cutter pop songs.
I totally agree with what Amber was saying! Also, I've been a kpop fan for ten years now and as much as I still love it, theres something about the older generation groups that made kpop more special for me.
Agree whole heartily, however you got me beat by a year lol. But I was just saying to a person on a particular kpop related video(forgot which one) that I'm from the 2nd generation of kpop where to me it all sounded so natural and real. Meaning basically it thoroughly catchy, eye catching, the dances were on point(and most of the time hard as shit lol), where no matter the genre of the song(whether it was pop, R&B, rock, hip hop, etc.) it had this IT/pizzazz factor sound about it that made it a hit/#1 seller , and how in hindsight overall how put together it was;especially the video(yes even if majority of them were filmed in a box lol). And it's also something about the 1st & 2nd generation idols vs. 3rd & 4th generation idol that are just obviously different. Idk if it's the personality, like how some of the older idols(even during their debut year) were more lax, more outspoken and talkative, funnier, and playful. Vs the newer ones were most of them are more humble, serious, calm, very, very respectful. To sum it up it's the older ones were basically more loose and have their guard down vs the newer ones that are more quiet with their guard up. But you get what I'm saying I hope this makes sense. And the same goes for like being a hardcore kpop fan(24/7 basically lol) to a couple of hours. Like the newer groups/music doesn't really catch my attention that much, especially now. So finally ending this long statement lol, moral to the story I really don't care that much for the newer groups(mostly the 4th generation ) as much as I do for the older ones so I can quite relate!
@@MrsAlmightyKey Yes!! I love how you put it! I find myself humming older songs or randomly going back to songs I used to listen to. It's crazy how its been years and I can recite a lot of the lyrics or dance moves because of how unique it is. I used to watch variety shows a lot more back then, because like what you said. It was refreshing when idols were so outspoken and playful. I get why idols now are more serious because of so much hate they for nothing, but still I find myself not as entertained. Thank for sharing! I really enjoyed reading what you had to say (don't worry it wasn't too long!) 😊
@@xxBunnyBear Why thank you😄 Yeah it's just something that older idols have that a nice chunk of the younger ones don't, but like you said I agree why they're more on the reserve side. Haha me too I get more shock when I remember old dances that I haven't dance to in a long time. And again you're so welcome thank you for reading and replying to my "long-no-so-long" comment lol
I’ve been waiting for Wongfu to collab with Amber for the longest time, seeing them interact with the same social circles. Thank you for bringing her on lunch break! Long time fan, and really enjoyed the conversation and debate around Kpop. I remember when those groups like SNSD tried to break out in the US, but I still don’t think it was as successful as what they release in Korea. I do agree with Amber that part of it takes time, like they need to stay in the states to promote longer, but I think the timing right now also plays a part. In the last year or so Asians have been more visible in the entertainment industry, so it’s become more accepted and mainstream to see them on TV. As opposed to even just a few years ago, kpop groups appearing on late nights shows confused the majority of the audience. In any case, I’m so happy for greater Asian representation and wish all the success and happiness to Amber and Wongfu!! 💜
The crossover no one thought they needed. Thanks for inviting Amber and her hot takes of the industry. I also agree with a lot of what Amber says about EXP Edition.
I love the bit "questions we can legally answer". Also great to get questions answered by someone who's been in the industry for so long but also has seen and experienced as Amber has
K-Pop just won't be K-Pop without Korean. I don't understand everything, but I wouldn't have it any other way. It is what makes it unique and made me learn the language. Don't want to Americanize it. Totally agree with Wes. Leave it as is. I love BSB and wouldn't want to have them any other way either
I don't think he is talking about Americanizing K-Pop. He is asking whether or not a home-bred Asian American pop group could be popular in America. And if not, what is the reason? If K-Pop is popular here, why can't an Asian American pop group be popular as well? Is it because Americans only want Asians from Asia, speaking Asian languages? Why not Asian Americans speaking their own native English? We have never had a popular Asian American girl or boy group in the states. All of our own groups had to be either white or African American to become popular. People thought an Asian American group wasn't marketable, so it was never attempted here, even when girl/boy groups were huge in the late 90s. Would it work now that K-Pop has gained popularity in the states, or would it still fail?
Yea that was a really good point he brought up. To be honest, I do not think an Asian-American group would do well in America because I believe a lot of Kpop fans enjoy Kpop because of the Korean, and rather I think a lot of Kpop fans would be hateful towards the Asian-American group as they will most likely be speaking english.
Meanwhile in the Philippines, there's a group called SB19 that trained in a Korean Entertainment Company and knows how to speak english,tagalog & learns kpop songs. It is so trippy coming back to these vids and seeing how far certain genres has been created and cultivated.
About what you said in 10:52 actually my sing academy has a dance class and a voice actor class and stuff, I mean, they want the whole package too but sometimes artists don't wanna be the whole package, maybe they can't or aren't interested. I like to sing and dance, but I had no acting skills so... I failed and that's so sad 'cause it means I can't be a complete artist for this academy. I don't know, maybe we just wanna be listened and want to reach every person in our way and that's it, even when I love Kpop because the whole package, I know I can't be it and it doesn't matter to me, I love being who I am and the artist I want to be. I think every artist should think like this and there's no need to feel incomplete just because they can't/want do this or that, just be yourself and be organic and real. That's it. Thanks for the vid, I loved it. I admit I came 'cause Amber but I'll stay, I like this content and you guys are cool ^^ Now you have a new subscriber! xP
Can I just say how great Amber is. The way she talks and expresses herself and just her presence. I've seen kpop idols asked some stuff like this but there's always this uncomfortable tone in the air or they don't word themselves correctly. Or their answers sound like a script their company wrote and not something they thought of But dam she really made the atmosphere comfortable I felt so cozy or like I was having a conversation with her/them. I really love her I feel she's so easy to work with and unbiased and just so comfortable to talk about every topic.
That difference is probably because Amber grew up American. She was raised to speak her opinion & be herself instead of a stereotype. If a career in Korea didn't work out, she could always go back home to her parents in a country that didn't consider an opinionated tomboy girl as weird. Of course she never wanted to make her company mad & risk getting fired, but deep down she wasn't scared that it was her only opportunity in her life.
seriously Wong Fu's and Amber's content usually show up together on my list. kinda shocked to see these two magically mixed today. great job guys, love you all.
I absolutely love Amber for being so mature, intellectual, and honest in this video. Personally for me as an international (but still Asian) Kpop fan I feel that Kpop as a genre isn't fully appreciated in America. BTS is often touted as the face of Kpop, or the sign that Kpop has taken over America but to be honest they are a drop in the ocean with Kpop as a genre. BTS represents a very specific type of Kpop, but there is so much more to this genre that many people in the West do not appreciate/have an interest of. BTS's music (especially their new stuff) is very reminiscent of American pop, and many of my friends actually agree that their old sound was closer to what Kpop is typically like. YET, it is their new music that is drawing in the fans and crowds. By virtue of this observation, I don't feel that Kpop as a musical genre/type will make it big in America just yet. It's hard to describe but Kpop has a very distinct sound, and that is what draws people and fans in -- but that sound has yet to be fully appreciated in America. As such, at this point, I don't see am American 'Kpop' group being a thing.
6:21 you literally just described Jackson Wang. He's a friend of Amber's, too haha. He literally just worked with the Kinjaz (and Rich Brian and Jimmy Iovine) here in America a couple weeks ago while he was here to promote, film videos, and do studio work for his upcoming music (that might be in English?). He's in a popular kpop group GOT7, speaks English, Korean, Cantonese, Mandarin, etc, dances very well, sings, raps, writes and produces music, is super funny, outgoing, friendly, etc. Him and GOT7 are a great example but they also aren't the only ones. There are plenty of idols who speak English and have made English songs and have already started to promote in America. It's happening now and this is just the beginning!
Amber!! 💖 I saw you live 2012 at Korean Music Wave in Google at the Shoreline Amphitheater - I loved how loud the audience shouted when you did your part. Glad I got to see you early in my Kpop discovery. Give my love to Luna and tell her I love her voice! Thanks!!! 🤗 😍
My little sister loves amber and I was like hey ya wanna watch lunch break then she saw amber and yelled so loud! She said that Amber Liu is her girl crush.💕
Thank you all for being so open when discussing and theorizing about why society and certains things COULD be a certain way. It's relaxing to just being able to talk about things like these from time to time
As a kpop fan myself, this is one of the most interesting videos I've ever seen on the subject. Having a sneak peek into a kpop star is amazing and Amber's thoughts on it are really interesting. Thank you for this video guys! Lots o' love :)
Watching this in 2020, just after dynamite streaked up to no. 1 in the billboard charts. With the lockdown, i discovered KDrama from the Philippines and led me to KPop. And to this channel. Mabuhay and KPop. Lovette.
Amber is a legend. I think k-pop being Korean with some foreign members is important. 1 direction was a thing but it being so British was very important to their identity. The difference in culture and environment is important. Sometimes seeing the difference in culture are learning about it is part of the fun.
They’re laughing about how BgA helped Kpop but literally the way I got into Kpop was because of when BgA came out. The day it came out I was, “hey, maybe I should start stan-ing Kpop”. Now it’s such a large part of my life
I feel like the whole K-pop concept can be described by "video killed the radio star". Especially how Amber said that K-pop is so visual, I can imagine it's much more difficult to make a breakthrough in Korea if you can't bring the "whole package". Whereas in the US/UK/Australia, it's seemingly a lot easier to be a successful musicianl even without carrying other talents. I think both regions have very different expectations for pop music - right now American pop has moved on from the boy bands and the girl bands, and fans prefer a more "authentic" image from their artists. Whereas in Korea, it's almost grown in the other direction: K-pop fans aren't expecting musicians, they're expecting talented idols who can fulfil the fantasy of an outstanding individual. I don't think one system is better than the other - they both present enormous pressure on the creators in different ways, but I do think that it's important to understand who the product is targeted towards. For this reason, I don't think a K-pop style group would work well in America right now, which is not to say that it would never work.
I thought you guys knew Amber already..JK knows Amber. I wish to hear more stories from Amber 😫. I love the conversation! Let's be honest, we are all Phil in the beginning.
This is literally everything I've been thinking about for the past like year and have had no one to talk to about it so its great to see that y'all share some of my viewpoints.
This is why I love Amber: she has managed to fit squarely in the K-Pop game, hitting the top of it even as a decidedly non-binary American not-of-Korean-descent, and able to come here and be a refreshing social media and music star in her own right back at home. I love that she can serve some tea about the industry without being disrespectful to SM or her group, and give us insight as some one who has really done it all. In a way, she represents why an Asian American idol group (for lack of a better term) perhaps isn’t feasible: her experience is so distinctly different overseas and here, and so reflective of the expectations. Imagine a group of Asian American kids being essentially sent to a boarding school with the emphasis on looks, pop music performance, hip hop dance, media training, charm, then perhaps left out of a chance to be part of a group that may itself only have a narrow window to find an audience. In the U.S. that would be seen at best as foolish parenting (and what Asian parent would stand to be accused of that?), at worst as child slavery. But at the core of why that wouldn’t work is the the spirit of individualism in the U.S. and the west that ultimately has audiences reject obviously engineered groups or has members’ ambitions tear them down from within. It’s Justin, not N’Sync. Bobby, not New Edition. Zayn, Harry, Niall, Liam, not the “one” direction they were artificially on together, in exactly the same way as it’s now Camilla not in harmony with those other four. If the value of group cohesion isn’t baked in, and isn’t committed to be resilient in the way that Amber’s own group had been when they lost a member, or when Exo had an cleaving of its Chinese members, or when SHINee truly lost a soul, there’s no way a group can shine on as the egos charge their way out. For better or worse, the American spirit wasn’t built for getting along for just getting on without someone just trying grab what they feel is theirs, and theirs alone.
That's why f(x) was supposed to appeal more internationally, because they were modeled after the Spice Girls. The group concept was individuality. Girls from different backgrounds with different personalities, yet they were a group that knew how to work together on a shared musical interest. Their style, look, & music was to supposed change over time as they influenced each other & were influenced by different genres. (The company really should have let them experiment more musically since that was the concept, but I guess was afraid to risk it when the time came.) 1 of their albums is considered to be among the best kpop albums of all time. Still, I think that they didn't hit it big internationally because the company didn't promote them outside of Asia much. Now that Amber & Luna have more fans from collabs with artists outside of kpop, maybe interest in f(x) will increase. We love their solo work, but want a f(x) comeback too, when they can work it out.
8:53 because US radio stations hate us. I don't have a good reason for why they won't play BTS songs like they do any other foreign musicians. I really like Amber, A LOT!
"if everyone got the same exposure... who's it gonna be?" That really hit home because there are a LOT of kpop artists that are as talented but doesn't get the same exposure as others since they came from smaller companies who can't promote them well and widely or doesn't know how to manage the groups.
Really interesting and good talk. Also making me think about why I like what I like. Even that last bit about the saturation of kpop and needing artists with long term plans. I agree there are so many kpop groups and honestly they're all at around the same level. They all look good, sound good, very very talented...what makes me decide to like and follow a group is personality and passion. Finding artists who love what they do and wanting to support that. Not to sound cold or anything, but I mean that's even why I support Amber. Total bonus that she also makes good music that I do like, but honestly if I didn't know her there's other music that I would listen to first. But she puts herself out there and I feel like I DO know her and that she's a genuine and admirable person so it makes me enjoy her music more.
more amber please! @amber really appreciate your insights! it's not everyday that we get a veteran kpop artist explaining things to us (in english too)! wishing you all the best :)
As a kpop fan for 10 years now (I came in with the Wondergirls wave) and also a non-asian (ergo not looking for representation) the appeal for me initially was really just the novelty of finding the kind of fun pop that wasn't available in the west - super bright MVs, impressive dance routines, kitschy retro sound, with extremely talented performers. This added up to me being a casual fan for years. I'm not the biggest pop fan, but when I'm in the mood for something shallow and fun I want it to be bright and kitschy too damnit! As I looked deeper I began to discover Korean indie/alternative/hip hop etc. and found some really exciting artists who I never would have heard of otherwise. I was already perhaps more aware than the average non-asian about lack of representation in the West since I grew up in an area w/ a big asian population & many of my friends were asian (though actually none of them listened to kpop!). As I started to notice how many Asian Americans there are in the kpop scene, it made me reflect even more on how there was almost *no opportunity* for asian entertainers in the Western mainstream. There wasn't even one big Asian American star at the time, and seeing how talented young asians had to travel to countries they didn't know just to have a chance at success showed up how bad things were over here. Things have started to loosen up in the last few years, but progress seems to be slow. **Personal opinions ahead please don't take offence** As for BTS, in my opinion they are more of a one-off phenomenon than a natural extension of the kpop model. I came across them in 2014-15, and for me the big difference is their large discography of self-written music & lyrics that I could connect to on a deep level. I'd been a 'fan' of artists like Big Bang for a few years - watched many variety shows and documentaries, knew all about the members - but their music never had the same hold over me. BTS had something I felt had been largely missing from both Western & Asian pop for a long time. My feelings about them are more similar to the alternative artists I'm usually a fan of. Having watched their popularity steadily grow the last few years I'd say their music, message & sincerity is by far the most passionately discussed factor within the fandom, with personality & performance a close second. It's also worth noting that the fanbase is majority 20s & 30s, with many older fans. So regarding your questions: I think their fanbase likes them for who they are - and who they are happens to be Korean. Both Western & Asian media have questioned if they will start singing in English, and fans have unanimously replied that they support them sticking to Korean, simply because that's the language they can express themselves best in. Since message and sincerity are such important factors, singing in one's native language(s) naturally follows - whether the singer be American, Korean, or any other nationality!
interesting that you are talking about an all english kpop group because it reminded me of "Zgirls" and "Zboys" (those are the actual names ... yes) who are all asian (each from a different area - thailand, india, etc.) but not korean, but they are still launching as a kpop group. their first digital singles, i was surprised to find out, were all sung in english. i wonder if they are going to focus on releasing english music as a kpop group, or if there are any korean songs planned ... but what you are talking about... might actually be happening ...
They are launched as Zpop yes but like Amber said... the “basic kpop package” is what they will be channeling I guess, so yes it could already be happening...and oh yea, all the members of ZBoys and Zgirls are all ASIAN!
Amber's stuff is a pretty good mix of styles. There's all the f(x) kpop songs (which featured different edm/pop styles) & collabs with other kpop artists. Then collabs with other non-kpop artists & her solo stuff, that are different than the f(x) songs. Too many to name here. She & bandmate Luna have some edm collabs & kpop collabs with various artists, & a few things with just the 2 of them. (Check out their mv Lower & a live cover performance of Just a Love on the show Sugarman.) The last few years they have appeared together several times at music award shows, fashion shows, kpop concerts, kcons, etc doing their recent &/or most popular solos as well as performing a few f(x) favorites as a duo. Speaking of fashion, Amber is also a model/commercial actress like a lot of kpop stars. She's done a lot of things but Nike features her regularly because her athletic/tomboy image in Korean music & entertainment shows made her stand out & become quite popular with Korean women & teens who felt ostracized by Korea's very traditional view of how women should dress & act. Then there's her TH-cam channel (Amber Liu, What The Pineapple) with funny stuff done with friends, personal stuff, & bts on a lot of her music. She did a similar thing on the 1-season Ranting Monkey series she did, for a Korean channel. It shows her bts with bandmates & friends while working & more. You can find them posted on TH-cam also. She appears often on other TH-cam channels as a guest, since she's made a lot of friends & contacts through the years.
great songs will always rule the charts. It's just that the companies are not putting the resources needed to promote Asian artists in America. We need an artist that has the X factor. Which means, can write great songs, but also look good and be a great performer. If there is an Asian guy that has the writing and producing abilities of a Bruno Mars or The Weeknd , or Charlie Puth then that will be a game changer.
ALSO I think one reason kpop is so successful at least here is because it's such a distinct subculture. If you're into a western pop singer there's not much to that but with kpop comes a brand new history, new rules, new standards, new lingo, new style, etc. and a lot of that extends from the fact that it IS from Korea which has it's own distinct culture and history as well. Your understanding of everything within the subculture contributes to your enjoyment and sense of belonging to something relatively exclusive and unique. It's similar in this way to anime lovers which is why I think there's a lot of overlap in that area, what with fan translators and such.
AMBER is...cool.
Very agree Mike ^^
Cooler than cool
Always
so are you....from Amber😂👍
Want to click the Like a millllllllllion times.
Can yall get Eric Nam next? He has ALWAYS been so vocal about Asian American representation
YESS that would be so awesome!!
Please ask Amber to connect you guys!!
Make it happen!!!
Yh even mark , johnny from nct and Henry too..😊
oh god imagine Amber, Eric Nam, and Henry hanging out with Wong fu! I'm gonna be so happy 😭😭😭
I just love how "old" k-pop stars now can speak up a little more about their opinions on the industry, and being allowed to do their own thing.
I am so proud of Amber!
And forever waiting for a F(x) comeback.
I wish Tiffany and Amber could talk more deeply about it though. I'm curious about the dark side of Kpop. But since they're still in their agencies they could only skate across the surface.
Stream Luna’s videos first
One big difference from western groups that I think makes kpop successful is that kpop groups don't just sing, they perform. Kpop includes a combination of dance and music. In kpop, dancing is almost if not as important as singing. In the western music industry, dancing isn't as prevalent but kpop songs have dance routines that people associate with every song. The dance routines add to a song being iconic and memorable. The fact that kpop is more than just music is the reason why it's so popular
sociallyineptpotato yeah, it’s more of like performing rather that singing
Connecting with fans is also a huge part of it. K-pop stars are like influencers who do everything. Moreso than just the songs, dances and performances, the main attraction is actually the members themselves. You get to know them through variety shows, interviews, V live, and they churn out so much content that you almost feel closer to them than your friends. Memes and crack videos enhance perceptions of them; shipping and fanfics stimulate fantasies about them; their SNS availability, fan meetings and fan chants allow you to feel interactive; and the quick turnaround between comebacks and your ability to contribute to their success on five different music shows a week fosters a much greater feeling of loyalty and tribalism. It's like they're there for you everyday doing new stuff and while that's awesome, I can see why on the other hand it can lead to a feeling of possessiveness that can get out of hand and also be truly devastating when your group disbands.
Not even that. Fan meets, hi touch, constant fan exposure and gathering new fans. Its more than fame, dance and music. Imagine getting one fan, thats instantly atleast 3 album per cycle.
on the other hand, you can't ignore the sheer number of kpop groups compared to western groups. in s. korea, the formation of kpop groups is basically a business model where men and women audition for a spot whereas for western groups, going into the music industry is still considered an artistic endeavor and a journey that you as an individual or group must embark on alone when finding a record producer and such (exception being shows like American Idol and The Voice). it's because of this competition that members are expected to be able to sing and dance in order to stand out. on top of that, once a group forms, they have to compete with existing groups to land pr segments meaning they have to present a look and feel that is different than others. you could say that the popularity of kpop isn't so much that they're so much better than western groups but that since there are so many, it's like throwing a handful of darts at a corkboard; you're bound to have one that sticks. don't get me wrong, i'm not downplaying the efforts of kpop groups. their work ethic is admirable and it's kind of sad to see how many idols run themselves ragged trying to keep that competitive edge but it's not so simple as saying one group does one thing more than another group; it's the overall culture.
@@xfactr1009 I agree and disagree because in Korea for the most part, the only way to become a singer is to go through a company. In the western music industry there are a bunch of different ways to become successful. Yes, you have to make it on your own but you also don't need a company to be successful. You can do it on your own and not have to wait for a company to approve in various different ways so in that regard, there are way more American artists, especially with the internet and sites like youtube
Amber brought up the most important observation and that's the K-pop industry being saturated. It's so damn competitive compared to the West because companies are investing so much money into these groups. At the end of the day, it's a business. There's plenty of talent and passionate people, but building an audience who will support your group and having members that work well together are essential aspects in longevity.
But the thing is the Kpop "model" was not built for longevity, which is why you hear about the "5 year curse" or the "7 year curse". Kpop is about making as much money as possible in a short amount of time. For the industry to become less saturated companies need to start making groups for the long term. As it is going right now the Kpop industry is getting less and less profitable especially in the Korean market. If the model doesn't change the industry won't stay afloat.
In a way to think, the artists are the 'products/packages' sold to the audiences and this is when your point comes in. I think the business model should also depends on the the audiences' view of what the 'idols' should be like.
As Amber said, she is considered 'old' in this saturated industry not only because of the existing competition but also the way the audiences view/perceive that the idols 'should' be young (lets say ~16-2x for now) and how/why they are best suited in the industry.
Is the saturation of the industry caused by the model itself or the audiences instead? It's a debatable question imo.
Indeed this is a very complex issue as you have to take socioeconomic/cultural/psychological factors into account. Also there is no absolute truth at understanding the Kpop system (if only this is a dissertation lol).
@@ashleyash7751 this would’ve been a great dissertation lmao
I totally agree with Amber's last point. This is actually one of my biggest frustrations as a kpop fan, that talented groups come and go so quickly. I know a huge reason for this is that the companies assume each group will only last a few years, so they try to wring as much money out of them as possible while they can. Then they either get burnt out and quit, or the company switches focus to their new group and forgets about the older group, even if the older group still has lots of fans. It seems like a ridiculous business model, especially with how much time and money is invested into their training, and the fact that it's easier to keep existing fans than create new ones.
I just wish companies could switch their mindset from "maximize short-term profit" to "nurture long-term careers". Let them work at a more sustainable pace. Give them more creative freedom. Allow artists and groups to evolve and mature and change their style. Imagine if Beyonce had been dropped after a few hits. We would've missed out on some of her best work. It hurts to think about how much great music we've missed out on from Korean artists because their companies never gave them the chance to grow.
That's also kind of what happened in the US in the late 90s and early 2000s, when there were loads of boy and girl bands who danced as well, and were on US and UK talk shows, MTV's TRL and the UK's children's/teen's Saturday morning shows, Top of the Pops etc. Lots of smaller US record companies were bought out/amalgamated with larger companies, which just focused on getting as much money as they could from the existing signed bands and artists, without understanding the music (because of new management with differing music genre backgrounds) and didn't give as much creative freedom, wanting to stick to the "known formula" that worked. I would assume it's always been like this to an extent, record companies or producers wanting to stick to the "known formula" of the times (just watched Bohemian Rhapsody the other day with a mention of this). After all, they exist to make money.
Coming as a Hanson fan, as well as a fan of Amber and F(x), what you mentioned @Kat the Cat, seems to be a prevailing problem in the industry to this day. The record companies still see the artists and bands having an "expiration date". Hence why Hanson took the huge risk back in the 2000s to leave their then signed record company and started their own, but not without problems (they made a documentary on the whole ordeal). Luckily Hanson had, and continue to have, a huge supportive fan base and have been innovative in expanding their business and other ventures. Unfortunately, if F(x) tried to do that in Korea, they could possibly be (indirectly) blocked from all those traditional radio and TV outlets in Korea with all the variety talk shows and such due to the influence of their current management company. Even if they try to do it in the US, although they have a large international fanbase, it may still prove to be difficult for them to survive due to the different business models that Amber mentioned.
PS: my comment might seem a bit like it's all over the place, if so, please forgive me. It's 5am almost 6am, I saw Amber and WongFu and just had to watch and read/make some comments 😅. Back to sleep now~
*Always hoping for an F(x) comeback* 😉
That’s the thing with fame, it comes and goes.
You’re either a one hit wonder or struck gold and maintain fame for awhile till it buzzes off.
There’s also the marketing tactics that companies use.
SM has well-maintained their groups popularity at a stagnant result seeing as their older groups are still active and doing work here and there.
Can’t say the same for the other companies.
at the same time, you have to see that companies that DO operate on such a long term model, such as SM which always makes their artists sign a 10 year contract, have struggled for years with artists calling it a "slave contract" and leaving/terminating their contract early. supporting a group for that long also requires a LOT of money, money which most companies don't have.
There is mandatory military enlistment for males that can effect careers.
@@justlim622 i was about to comment it, because after enlistment the people won't be as hyped about the group as they did before. It would also be hard for the kpop boy groups to go with the trend after enlistment.. After all kpop almost always showcases "youth".
BgA ft Amber collab/comeback?
that would be epic
Or at least have Jun collab with her, but preferably, the whole of BgA lol
Ryan confirmed a BgA comeback on his podcast called Off The Pill
@@yellowlidgaming8218 I must have missed that part. Off The Pill podcast is great...teehee
OH I WOULD LIKE
Wes is right. You wouldn’t watch anime dubbed, and if an “anime” would be made in the US then it wouldn’t be anime. It’s culture that specifically represents a people & nation
Goddamn right! (u^u)
Although you could draw some inspiration and some non-Japanese artists are pretty good at getting the feel in their design and art while keeping their individuality (some of them work in Japan and can be quite hard to notice the difference). After all modern Japanese animation had some influences from American animation as well (Disney).
The term "anime" is mostly a Western thing. Japanese just treat every animation the same basically. While Westerns use it to separate from other animations and even calling it a style by itself. I remember a time during the 80s when Japanimation was more used and the only thing going for it was just animation from Japan.
In Brazil and I imagine Latin America as well (Europe notably France has their own interesting history as well), the term anime was also slowly adopted as this more unified one we have now after the internet. Otherwise, it wasn't treated much differently from cartoons or European animation and people had a harder time distinguishing any difference as lot of cartoons were animated by Japan back then and they kinda had the same vibe.
I think Koreans are pretty good at mimicking the feel (as they are already used in the industry) if they aim for it (I forgot the name of the sci-fi movie, it's pretty much indistinguishable for Japanese ones). Chinese is quite a hit-and-miss. Art style is pretty close, but they don't quite get the feel right yet unless their production is shared with Japan. Still it's a bit harder to point what is wrong exactly.
I guess the differentiation happened more with the rise of the Internet anime fandom and its relative homogenization in the West (I can't say much about in Asia outside Japan itself), the Cool Japan thing promoted by Japanese government (if it had any impact at all), and some of the big anime series in the late 90s changing the landscape of the Japanese anime and their local fandom, and probably more factors I'm ignoring.
It's an interesting subject and more complex than people give credit (specially American folks that dismiss anime because of its fandom beginnings). This anime feel and the marketing term is quite hard to point out and can cause lot of semantic wars.
There's nothing wrong with watching anime dubbed. But if a kpop group/artist doesn't sing in Korean, then that song wouldn't be "kpop" IMO.
Guess its wrong to like Dragon Ball Dub and all others :*(
@@ryans6309 i actually like the korean dub for dbz. Also, i grew up with Portuguese dub of 80s n 90s US movies n i kinda like these more.
Can we get jackson wang on here?
Kaho Tanaka I’m crying you’re right he needs to be here
I want Jae from day6
@@porridgeman Jae needs to be here, come on. Wong Fu Productions inspired Jae, haha. But yes, please, Jackson needs to get in on Lunch Break XD
What about Kris Wu?
Kaho Tanaka JACKSON i had to
While on the topic of KPop would love to see Tiffany now that she's working in the US.
Shouldn't be too hard since they're both in LA.
meanwhile,
BgA: *makes a song about poop*
BgA: *tops the Kpop charts*
Nadine r
Unfortunately they didn’t actually make it to the regular k-pop charts such as Gaon, Melon or Mcountdown. They only made the k-pop section in iTunes. 😓
Smile it’s still good that both their parody songs passed the actual famous kpop groups on itunes (their second song even ended up #1) with the fact that they made both of them as a joke😂
Nadine r
I couldn’t believe my eyes! It’s sort of funny but sad at the same time 😂😂
Smile
i mean, it’s a pretty dope song for anyone who doesn’t understand Korean tbh, it kinda makes sense😂😂
It was so nice listening to them talk about other great artists like BoA, Girls Generation, and Wonder Girls. I wish Amber could’ve talked more about her personal experience as an f(x) member, but I understand if she can’t
Amber is very well spoken and smart. Glad there is a kpop idol who can talk about the topic in an intelligent manner and explore the different facets of the industry. Too bad the lunch wasnt longer.
Wooo Amber on lunch break ahhh
Y’all remember when Wonder Girls went on tour with the Jonas Brothers?? I went and met them! Those were the days...
Wtf
Rewind that for me??? O.O
Soooo many newer and older fans don't know about this
Yeaah Big Bang and Wonder Girls were one of the OGs that toured America first. “Nobody” was a sensation!
Ooo and they were on the Wendy Williams show
This makes me think of tiffany young, who after leaving SM is doing her own thing in english. The views arent as big as when she was with snsd but her popularity is growing and her music is all really good and trying to break away from all the kpop stuff and “re-debut”
I love Tiffany Young and I love Girls' Generation. I respect and am very proud that Tiffany has gone her own way to create music that reflects her. I'm a hardcore sone and stan SNSD. However, I think it's kind of unfair to Tiffany that people keep trying to push SNSD's Tiffany persona onto Tiffany Young. Been reading tweets on her recent tour how people keep asking her to sing SNSD/TTS songs and what not. Like yes, it's freaking Tiffany Hwang in our midsts. And we're all nostalgic and miss SNSD. But I think we should give Tiffany Young the stage light where she's not SNSD's Tiffany, but just Tiffany Young. A veteran who knows her stuff and is being vulnerable to us fans to show her songs.
@@filipinopride4127 i went to her show last night in new york and it was amazing. She did end up singing a little on of into the new world at the end but that was it. she also sang a few of her korean songs but the emphasis was on her new album
@@xxoczukxx Yeah I went to her show in Chicago. LOVED it. We sang into the new world together and ofc everyone was yelling for her to sing TTS songs. But my goodness, wasn't she amazing???
My K-Pop question for Amber would’ve been when is f(x) coming back. Lol.
What a missed opportunity!!! Ughhhhh lol
Was probably cut cuz SM
She already has a lot of solo music out!! She released a lot of singles last year
luna asked yall to stop asking for it though
@@JL.. really ? When ? And why ?
i love hearing amber being so serious explaining how much hard work it is to be in kpop and how its important to think of everything in the long term
Agree,,, her serious voice is my fav ASMR,,, 😁 #sorryimcringey
Amber needs to have her own company and be a CEO for kpop groups
Any members from Day6 would be weird but also fun on Lunch Break LOL
Samantha D the whole squad would make this a Buffet Break
This was straight up a business meeting. And I LOVE IT. So open and honest. Thank you Amber ✊🏼
oh, please have Amber be a regular guest! She's such a delight and full of knowledge.
Amber!! f(x) was my first kpop group and wong fu was one of my first youtube channels, so naturally I love this!
The same for me 😆
OMG OMG OMG AMBER AMBER ITS AMBER
-she should be in one of your shorts！！
"I miss when pop groups would dance" MEEE TOOO I feel like I watch KPop, not just because of the music but because they are actually dancing instead of standing and singing, they are active on stages and everything. (I talked about this-this morning lol)
I feel like if any Korean label were to start crossing that divide, it’d be JYP. They’re already starting to build up a record of recruiting local talent, training them under the intense kpop system, and then helping them promote in their own country and native language. JYP has done it with Boy Story (young Chinese kids), and they’re going to start the Nizi Project later this year to recruit Japanese girls to form a Japanese girl group that’ll promote in Japan.
With that international mindset, I could see them branching out into the USA in the future as well
It's because it's the next step in hallyu wave, the localization if I'm not mistaking you can find out the conferences of Lee Soo Man and JYP here on TH-cam where they explain about it
Angelblade717 LoL it’s basically Nct concept..
@@nnnnnn7433 You do understand that JYP has been doing this since they recruited Taec, Nichkhun, Jay Park, and Changmin in perhaps 2006, right? They've been doing this for so long but in little doses, just a maximum of 3 non-Korean residents in a group. And now that they're confident enough in handling a full-blown international group into the K-Pop system, hence they started pursuing this business model on a larger scale.
JYP already crossed that divide before it was popular and expected of a Korean company to do so. And also, JYP produced English songs for the Wonder Girls to promote over here in the US, they even sang with Akon and toured with the Jonas Brothers before. So it''s been happening, it's just more viral now because of the presence of social media.
2:03 that moment when Benson waiting to spill his joke on BGA. Hahahahha
I felt the sadness that Amber really wanted to focus on music and fulfill her passion and the kpop industry (or the company) limits it or doesn’t provide enough support. However, i’m so happy that she can speak up/stand up for herself now regarding her career. I hope she gets more success!!
I agree with how rapid and lasting current popularization can be is a result of technological and cultural developments. That’s why fame is so circumstantial. You may say current groups are “better” than older groups because they became more popular globally faster, but that really isn’t the case. 2nd Gen K-pop groups like Girls Generation were huge during their time. You could say they were the definition of a successful group. While their American appearances aren’t as huge as recent ones, I’m sure it was one of the biggest achievements of K-pop at the time, especially considering the previous limitations of acceptance.
That's very actually very well said. I guess people tend to forget that generations build off of each other too. One generation's success is a stepping stone to another generation's surpassing success. If that makes sense.
Keep in mind that Kpop is a blend of Pop, Dance, R&B, HipHop, Latin, Rap and they blended it into this really cool thing. But the music didn't originate from Korea, they just took it to a new level and blended it into what we call Kpop. The training is the key thing and Americans aren't really into allowing a big company subsuming all that they are to produce a single product. Asian culture supports the idea of the group being more important than the individual. That's hard for most Americans to live by because we're not taught that here. When the Backstreet Boys were being controlled by their manager, everybody got upset about that fact. We tend to value artists who have more control, which is an appeal that BTS capitalizes on. What I like about Kpop is the production value, good music, and outstanding choreography.
Lots of American artists work within the same strictures that hold Kpop groups and artists and there are lots of kpop artists that have the same formula as BTS but people have lots of generalizations when it comes to kpop. Pop groups have been put together in America as well and lots of kpop artists in groups have individual things going on, with some members getting more famous in certain fields than other members, just like what happens with a lot of America groups which is why so many tended to break up. People seem to ignore the struggles almost all artists have with their management at some point and contracts that often suck for the artist.
@@GopherCakeStuff I agree that music companies are much the same all over, but cultural expectations are different in the lives of the artists. We here in america expect our artists to have individual lives. We expect them to date, for example. In Asia, idols are expected to not date and maintain the fantasy of availability. Dating is treated like a scandal in Asia. I use that as an example of the cultural difference. Any musician that has any degree of success has had to work their butts off to make it. Kpop artists in particular work insanely hard. I respect these kids so much.
k-pop make integral artists. you can't say that about western artist. just a few.
I agree with your last point. The main difference between American music and Kpop is that American artists are expected to be making and producing their own music whereas the companies do that all for the Kpop artists.
I think most of you are forgetting that the American music industry is much older than the Korean one. In other words, the artist here has been there and done that. Motown was the Kpop industry before there was one. It was a machine that taught the artist how to professionally sing, dance, act, etc. etc... and also created groups much like Kpop does now. But the company benefited more from all that hard work than the artist. Many of them had fame but not financial rewards for all that hard work. The artist here has spent decades trying to fight for control over their careers and ownership of their work. If you are an artist you want to own your music and have rights to those royalties, so you can keep earning years down the road. NSYNC and Backstreet boys are good examples of being huge and was screwed by the management team when it came to the money. You have to remember if the company doing all the work behind the scenes then they technically have the right to own the right to the songs and take most the financial reward. I feel that many idols are now wanting to have that kind of control and freedom over their careers as time goes on. That hard to do in Korea cause the companies have that industry on lockdown, but as they get bigger here they will have the opportunities to branch out on their own and/or negotiate better deals.
Anyone confused about why Amber may not know certain groups or other things currently happening in Kpop, this was filmed a while ago and she’s very busy. It’s impossible to know everything about everything.
Her points though are relevant and true in this current generation as well. She's looking at it with the American view and her experience in K Pop. She's not lying about the industry. It doesn't matter what groups are relevant today. Not in this discussion. All pop groups will be on the decline sooner or later. It's a cycle they go through. For K Pop the cycle is fast but shorter time span.
It is so interesting when someone who is in the kpop industry is able to really talk about it.
kpop for me is korean people singing in their native language, if they‘d sing only in english (a foreign language) they‘d lose some of their essence cause i think the korean language is quite komplex and also beautiful and things would get lost in transition.... the message of the songs still get conveyed if people just read the lyrics translations, i mean i guess it would be convenient to fully understand all the lines when listening but it‘s not necessary
AyanamiRei5kyu true
But some group s have foreign member. So not everyone's native tongue
AyanamiRei5kyu I don't quite understand what you mean. You say if the song was in English things would get lost in translation, yet you then say the message would get conveyed if you read translations of the original song. Also, what do you find particularly complex and beautiful about the Korean language? In my opinion, all languages are beautiful and complex. For me, Kpop is like American pop but with a lot of emphasis on strong performances and dancing and all of that. I find that is what appeals to me about Kpop. Therefore, for me, Kpop would not lose its essence if it were in English.
@Vanessa Pardun yes that's your opinion and that's fine... my statement "things get lost in TRANSITION but the message will get conveyed through translation" is not contradictory... first, it's one thing to write complete english lyrics from the get go versus translating lyrics from korean... for the first one: certain nuances or references in komplex korean lyrics would get lost if one would want to write songlyrics entirely in english... i like english as a language as well but it's very different and in my opinion quite simply structured (again it's just my opinion)... when i say the message gets through via translation i mean that the core meaning can be still understood but not every little detail or reference... i don't know how much you looked deeply into lyrics but for me quite a few bts songs hold meanings i would not have understood if they didn't come with translator expanations... examples are ddaeng or spine breaker or satoori rap, they come with references/sayings/korean culture aspects that you just can't express in english... anyways your definition of kpop is artists/groups which come with the whole package of performance, entertainment, personality, music, fashion etc and that makes sense and that's great if that's kpop for you! i don't think there's a universal definition for kpop cause it's so complex and diverse there is no right or wrong! for me personally the k in kpop stands for korean so i prefer songs mainly sung in the korean language, you don't have to like or agree with my definition, you can think that it's wrong but maybe you could also accept that every person has different opinions and that's okay :) but out of curiosity: so for you kpop is not bound to nationality, ethnicity, language? it's just the aspect of emphasis on performance or dancing? so if americans who sing in english but can dance and have flashy outfits would that be kpop? or do they have to be korean (and them singing in english is fine)? or as long as they're asian? or can it be anyone as long as they went through training and debuted with a korean company? in this case is kpop just a "product" shaped my the korean entertainment industry/companies? (i think that would be a pretty accurate definition as well) just wanna know how other people define kpop
AyanamiRei5kyu I think I understand. I think songs like Ddaeng are kind of special cases I suppose. The English equivalent I guess could be This is America, you don't understand it if you don't come from a racially diverse country where black people and minorities are mistreated, you may not understand. However, it must be addressed that not all Kpop songs are like that. Many are kind of just cookie cutter pop songs, partying, having a crush on a guy/girl, break ups, universal experiences. I think the raps in Ddaeng aren't like typical Kpop raps, rapping is usually very cultural, it has a deeper meaning beyond just those cookie cutter pop songs.
I totally agree with what Amber was saying! Also, I've been a kpop fan for ten years now and as much as I still love it, theres something about the older generation groups that made kpop more special for me.
Agree whole heartily, however you got me beat by a year lol. But I was just saying to a person on a particular kpop related video(forgot which one) that I'm from the 2nd generation of kpop where to me it all sounded so natural and real. Meaning basically it thoroughly catchy, eye catching, the dances were on point(and most of the time hard as shit lol), where no matter the genre of the song(whether it was pop, R&B, rock, hip hop, etc.) it had this IT/pizzazz factor sound about it that made it a hit/#1 seller , and how in hindsight overall how put together it was;especially the video(yes even if majority of them were filmed in a box lol). And it's also something about the 1st & 2nd generation idols vs. 3rd & 4th generation idol that are just obviously different. Idk if it's the personality, like how some of the older idols(even during their debut year) were more lax, more outspoken and talkative, funnier, and playful. Vs the newer ones were most of them are more humble, serious, calm, very, very respectful. To sum it up it's the older ones were basically more loose and have their guard down vs the newer ones that are more quiet with their guard up. But you get what I'm saying I hope this makes sense. And the same goes for like being a hardcore kpop fan(24/7 basically lol) to a couple of hours. Like the newer groups/music doesn't really catch my attention that much, especially now. So finally ending this long statement lol, moral to the story I really don't care that much for the newer groups(mostly the 4th generation ) as much as I do for the older ones so I can quite relate!
@@MrsAlmightyKey Yes!! I love how you put it! I find myself humming older songs or randomly going back to songs I used to listen to. It's crazy how its been years and I can recite a lot of the lyrics or dance moves because of how unique it is. I used to watch variety shows a lot more back then, because like what you said. It was refreshing when idols were so outspoken and playful. I get why idols now are more serious because of so much hate they for nothing, but still I find myself not as entertained. Thank for sharing! I really enjoyed reading what you had to say (don't worry it wasn't too long!) 😊
@@xxBunnyBear Why thank you😄 Yeah it's just something that older idols have that a nice chunk of the younger ones don't, but like you said I agree why they're more on the reserve side. Haha me too I get more shock when I remember old dances that I haven't dance to in a long time. And again you're so welcome thank you for reading and replying to my "long-no-so-long" comment lol
Omg amber yes I love you! Wong fu you gotta have Stephanie soo on there soon pleasasssrrr
Yesss!! Bring Stephanie Soo!!
@@angelavasquez5309 hellll yeahhhh phanie packkk up in dis bisss!
omg yaasss!! I've been saying this. Bring the biss
Yes I would sell my kidney 👏🏼
@@angelavasquez5309 @Danthanh Le @Auriana Ponce I love my Phanie Pack Phamily
I’ve been waiting for Wongfu to collab with Amber for the longest time, seeing them interact with the same social circles. Thank you for bringing her on lunch break! Long time fan, and really enjoyed the conversation and debate around Kpop. I remember when those groups like SNSD tried to break out in the US, but I still don’t think it was as successful as what they release in Korea. I do agree with Amber that part of it takes time, like they need to stay in the states to promote longer, but I think the timing right now also plays a part. In the last year or so Asians have been more visible in the entertainment industry, so it’s become more accepted and mainstream to see them on TV. As opposed to even just a few years ago, kpop groups appearing on late nights shows confused the majority of the audience. In any case, I’m so happy for greater Asian representation and wish all the success and happiness to Amber and Wongfu!! 💜
The crossover no one thought they needed. Thanks for inviting Amber and her hot takes of the industry. I also agree with a lot of what Amber says about EXP Edition.
I love the bit "questions we can legally answer". Also great to get questions answered by someone who's been in the industry for so long but also has seen and experienced as Amber has
I came for Amber. The coolest Kpop star ever. Love u Am ❤
I'm from Ireland and I hear Waste It On Me on the radio regularly, and in pubs too!
K-Pop just won't be K-Pop without Korean. I don't understand everything, but I wouldn't have it any other way. It is what makes it unique and made me learn the language. Don't want to Americanize it. Totally agree with Wes. Leave it as is.
I love BSB and wouldn't want to have them any other way either
I don't think he is talking about Americanizing K-Pop. He is asking whether or not a home-bred Asian American pop group could be popular in America. And if not, what is the reason? If K-Pop is popular here, why can't an Asian American pop group be popular as well? Is it because Americans only want Asians from Asia, speaking Asian languages? Why not Asian Americans speaking their own native English? We have never had a popular Asian American girl or boy group in the states. All of our own groups had to be either white or African American to become popular. People thought an Asian American group wasn't marketable, so it was never attempted here, even when girl/boy groups were huge in the late 90s. Would it work now that K-Pop has gained popularity in the states, or would it still fail?
Yea that was a really good point he brought up. To be honest, I do not think an Asian-American group would do well in America because I believe a lot of Kpop fans enjoy Kpop because of the Korean, and rather I think a lot of Kpop fans would be hateful towards the Asian-American group as they will most likely be speaking english.
Meanwhile in the Philippines, there's a group called SB19 that trained in a Korean Entertainment Company and knows how to speak english,tagalog & learns kpop songs. It is so trippy coming back to these vids and seeing how far certain genres has been created and cultivated.
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!! WONG FU AND AMBER IS AMAZING!! YAYYY I LOVE YOU WONG FU AND AMBER LIU
About what you said in 10:52 actually my sing academy has a dance class and a voice actor class and stuff, I mean, they want the whole package too but sometimes artists don't wanna be the whole package, maybe they can't or aren't interested. I like to sing and dance, but I had no acting skills so... I failed and that's so sad 'cause it means I can't be a complete artist for this academy. I don't know, maybe we just wanna be listened and want to reach every person in our way and that's it, even when I love Kpop because the whole package, I know I can't be it and it doesn't matter to me, I love being who I am and the artist I want to be. I think every artist should think like this and there's no need to feel incomplete just because they can't/want do this or that, just be yourself and be organic and real. That's it.
Thanks for the vid, I loved it. I admit I came 'cause Amber but I'll stay, I like this content and you guys are cool ^^
Now you have a new subscriber! xP
AMBEEERRR I LOVE YOUUU!!
amber + wong fu productions on ONE video?? Am I dreaming?
Lovr you bothhh!
Can I just say how great Amber is.
The way she talks and expresses herself and just her presence.
I've seen kpop idols asked some stuff like this but there's always this uncomfortable tone in the air or they don't word themselves correctly. Or their answers sound like a script their company wrote and not something they thought of
But dam she really made the atmosphere comfortable I felt so cozy or like I was having a conversation with her/them.
I really love her I feel she's so easy to work with and unbiased and just so comfortable to talk about every topic.
That difference is probably because Amber grew up American. She was raised to speak her opinion & be herself instead of a stereotype. If a career in Korea didn't work out, she could always go back home to her parents in a country that didn't consider an opinionated tomboy girl as weird. Of course she never wanted to make her company mad & risk getting fired, but deep down she wasn't scared that it was her only opportunity in her life.
love love love kartists coming out to speak about kpop. amber's really articulate, it's so enjoyable to listen to and watch
Amber honestly seems like one of the coolest and most chill people in the world❤ Protect this Lama ❤
Amber brought out lots of great points! 👏🏼👏🏼
seriously Wong Fu's and Amber's content usually show up together on my list. kinda shocked to see these two magically mixed today. great job guys, love you all.
I absolutely love Amber for being so mature, intellectual, and honest in this video. Personally for me as an international (but still Asian) Kpop fan I feel that Kpop as a genre isn't fully appreciated in America. BTS is often touted as the face of Kpop, or the sign that Kpop has taken over America but to be honest they are a drop in the ocean with Kpop as a genre. BTS represents a very specific type of Kpop, but there is so much more to this genre that many people in the West do not appreciate/have an interest of. BTS's music (especially their new stuff) is very reminiscent of American pop, and many of my friends actually agree that their old sound was closer to what Kpop is typically like. YET, it is their new music that is drawing in the fans and crowds. By virtue of this observation, I don't feel that Kpop as a musical genre/type will make it big in America just yet. It's hard to describe but Kpop has a very distinct sound, and that is what draws people and fans in -- but that sound has yet to be fully appreciated in America. As such, at this point, I don't see am American 'Kpop' group being a thing.
6:21 you literally just described Jackson Wang. He's a friend of Amber's, too haha. He literally just worked with the Kinjaz (and Rich Brian and Jimmy Iovine) here in America a couple weeks ago while he was here to promote, film videos, and do studio work for his upcoming music (that might be in English?). He's in a popular kpop group GOT7, speaks English, Korean, Cantonese, Mandarin, etc, dances very well, sings, raps, writes and produces music, is super funny, outgoing, friendly, etc.
Him and GOT7 are a great example but they also aren't the only ones. There are plenty of idols who speak English and have made English songs and have already started to promote in America. It's happening now and this is just the beginning!
Amber!! 💖 I saw you live 2012 at Korean Music Wave in Google at the Shoreline Amphitheater - I loved how loud the audience shouted when you did your part. Glad I got to see you early in my Kpop discovery. Give my love to Luna and tell her I love her voice! Thanks!!! 🤗 😍
literally had to watch this twice bc all I did the first time was just,,, stare at amber and listen to amber’s voice and just- 😍😍😍😍
My little sister loves amber and I was like hey ya wanna watch lunch break then she saw amber and yelled so loud! She said that Amber Liu is her girl crush.💕
I love hearing Amber speak on all these things, and just in general. She's so eloquent. I love her so so much, thanks for having her on!
Yesss Amber!! My favorite lunch break, both because Amber is awesome and it’s really interesting to learn about the industry from her perspective.
Thank you all for being so open when discussing and theorizing about why society and certains things COULD be a certain way. It's relaxing to just being able to talk about things like these from time to time
As a kpop fan myself, this is one of the most interesting videos I've ever seen on the subject. Having a sneak peek into a kpop star is amazing and Amber's thoughts on it are really interesting. Thank you for this video guys! Lots o' love :)
Watching this in 2020, just after dynamite streaked up to no. 1 in the billboard charts. With the lockdown, i discovered KDrama from the Philippines and led me to KPop. And to this channel. Mabuhay and KPop. Lovette.
I LOVE HER SO MUCH
Amber is a legend. I think k-pop being Korean with some foreign members is important. 1 direction was a thing but it being so British was very important to their identity. The difference in culture and environment is important. Sometimes seeing the difference in culture are learning about it is part of the fun.
It was interesting seeing Amber on! Seeing that Tiffany’s on her way in America, you guys think you’d be interested in having her on??
They’re laughing about how BgA helped Kpop but literally the way I got into Kpop was because of when BgA came out. The day it came out I was, “hey, maybe I should start stan-ing Kpop”. Now it’s such a large part of my life
Make it a series. Only discovered Amber this year, she is so charismatic!!
I feel like the whole K-pop concept can be described by "video killed the radio star".
Especially how Amber said that K-pop is so visual, I can imagine it's much more difficult to make a breakthrough in Korea if you can't bring the "whole package". Whereas in the US/UK/Australia, it's seemingly a lot easier to be a successful musicianl even without carrying other talents.
I think both regions have very different expectations for pop music - right now American pop has moved on from the boy bands and the girl bands, and fans prefer a more "authentic" image from their artists.
Whereas in Korea, it's almost grown in the other direction: K-pop fans aren't expecting musicians, they're expecting talented idols who can fulfil the fantasy of an outstanding individual.
I don't think one system is better than the other - they both present enormous pressure on the creators in different ways, but I do think that it's important to understand who the product is targeted towards. For this reason, I don't think a K-pop style group would work well in America right now, which is not to say that it would never work.
Amberrrrrrrr ❤️ with Wong Fu!!!!!!!!!
I LOVE YOU AMBER please come back on another US tour I missed you last time :(
I thought you guys knew Amber already..JK knows Amber. I wish to hear more stories from Amber 😫. I love the conversation! Let's be honest, we are all Phil in the beginning.
Ohh thank you for mentioning 88rising as well. You guys made some really great points in this vid!
Amber ❤️
Thanks for having Amber.. so nice to see all my favorites in the same video 😍
please bring her back again next time!
This is great! Would love to have more episodes with Amber! She's just so honest and cool!
I’ve never clicked on a link so fast AMBER ON WONGFU OMG
This is literally everything I've been thinking about for the past like year and have had no one to talk to about it so its great to see that y'all share some of my viewpoints.
We need BgA comeback with Amber featured on it. ❤
This is why I love Amber: she has managed to fit squarely in the K-Pop game, hitting the top of it even as a decidedly non-binary American not-of-Korean-descent, and able to come here and be a refreshing social media and music star in her own right back at home. I love that she can serve some tea about the industry without being disrespectful to SM or her group, and give us insight as some one who has really done it all. In a way, she represents why an Asian American idol group (for lack of a better term) perhaps isn’t feasible: her experience is so distinctly different overseas and here, and so reflective of the expectations. Imagine a group of Asian American kids being essentially sent to a boarding school with the emphasis on looks, pop music performance, hip hop dance, media training, charm, then perhaps left out of a chance to be part of a group that may itself only have a narrow window to find an audience. In the U.S. that would be seen at best as foolish parenting (and what Asian parent would stand to be accused of that?), at worst as child slavery. But at the core of why that wouldn’t work is the the spirit of individualism in the U.S. and the west that ultimately has audiences reject obviously engineered groups or has members’ ambitions tear them down from within. It’s Justin, not N’Sync. Bobby, not New Edition. Zayn, Harry, Niall, Liam, not the “one” direction they were artificially on together, in exactly the same way as it’s now Camilla not in harmony with those other four. If the value of group cohesion isn’t baked in, and isn’t committed to be resilient in the way that Amber’s own group had been when they lost a member, or when Exo had an cleaving of its Chinese members, or when SHINee truly lost a soul, there’s no way a group can shine on as the egos charge their way out. For better or worse, the American spirit wasn’t built for getting along for just getting on without someone just trying grab what they feel is theirs, and theirs alone.
That's why f(x) was supposed to appeal more internationally, because they were modeled after the Spice Girls. The group concept was individuality. Girls from different backgrounds with different personalities, yet they were a group that knew how to work together on a shared musical interest. Their style, look, & music was to supposed change over time as they influenced each other & were influenced by different genres. (The company really should have let them experiment more musically since that was the concept, but I guess was afraid to risk it when the time came.)
1 of their albums is considered to be among the best kpop albums of all time. Still, I think that they didn't hit it big internationally because the company didn't promote them outside of Asia much. Now that Amber & Luna have more fans from collabs with artists outside of kpop, maybe interest in f(x) will increase. We love their solo work, but want a f(x) comeback too, when they can work it out.
8:53 because US radio stations hate us. I don't have a good reason for why they won't play BTS songs like they do any other foreign musicians.
I really like Amber, A LOT!
"if everyone got the same exposure... who's it gonna be?"
That really hit home because there are a LOT of kpop artists that are as talented but doesn't get the same exposure as others since they came from smaller companies who can't promote them well and widely or doesn't know how to manage the groups.
Really interesting and good talk. Also making me think about why I like what I like. Even that last bit about the saturation of kpop and needing artists with long term plans. I agree there are so many kpop groups and honestly they're all at around the same level. They all look good, sound good, very very talented...what makes me decide to like and follow a group is personality and passion. Finding artists who love what they do and wanting to support that.
Not to sound cold or anything, but I mean that's even why I support Amber. Total bonus that she also makes good music that I do like, but honestly if I didn't know her there's other music that I would listen to first. But she puts herself out there and I feel like I DO know her and that she's a genuine and admirable person so it makes me enjoy her music more.
this was a really interesting dialogue, would really appreciate if this was a series in which more kpop artists talk about things similar to this
she just kept eating. good job
this was so interesting to watch, you guys definitely brought on topics I was also wondering about the kpop industry. Loved seeing Amber too
more amber please! @amber really appreciate your insights! it's not everyday that we get a veteran kpop artist explaining things to us (in english too)! wishing you all the best :)
As a kpop fan for 10 years now (I came in with the Wondergirls wave) and also a non-asian (ergo not looking for representation) the appeal for me initially was really just the novelty of finding the kind of fun pop that wasn't available in the west - super bright MVs, impressive dance routines, kitschy retro sound, with extremely talented performers. This added up to me being a casual fan for years. I'm not the biggest pop fan, but when I'm in the mood for something shallow and fun I want it to be bright and kitschy too damnit! As I looked deeper I began to discover Korean indie/alternative/hip hop etc. and found some really exciting artists who I never would have heard of otherwise.
I was already perhaps more aware than the average non-asian about lack of representation in the West since I grew up in an area w/ a big asian population & many of my friends were asian (though actually none of them listened to kpop!). As I started to notice how many Asian Americans there are in the kpop scene, it made me reflect even more on how there was almost *no opportunity* for asian entertainers in the Western mainstream. There wasn't even one big Asian American star at the time, and seeing how talented young asians had to travel to countries they didn't know just to have a chance at success showed up how bad things were over here. Things have started to loosen up in the last few years, but progress seems to be slow.
**Personal opinions ahead please don't take offence**
As for BTS, in my opinion they are more of a one-off phenomenon than a natural extension of the kpop model. I came across them in 2014-15, and for me the big difference is their large discography of self-written music & lyrics that I could connect to on a deep level. I'd been a 'fan' of artists like Big Bang for a few years - watched many variety shows and documentaries, knew all about the members - but their music never had the same hold over me. BTS had something I felt had been largely missing from both Western & Asian pop for a long time. My feelings about them are more similar to the alternative artists I'm usually a fan of. Having watched their popularity steadily grow the last few years I'd say their music, message & sincerity is by far the most passionately discussed factor within the fandom, with personality & performance a close second. It's also worth noting that the fanbase is majority 20s & 30s, with many older fans.
So regarding your questions: I think their fanbase likes them for who they are - and who they are happens to be Korean. Both Western & Asian media have questioned if they will start singing in English, and fans have unanimously replied that they support them sticking to Korean, simply because that's the language they can express themselves best in. Since message and sincerity are such important factors, singing in one's native language(s) naturally follows - whether the singer be American, Korean, or any other nationality!
interesting that you are talking about an all english kpop group because it reminded me of "Zgirls" and "Zboys" (those are the actual names ... yes) who are all asian (each from a different area - thailand, india, etc.) but not korean, but they are still launching as a kpop group. their first digital singles, i was surprised to find out, were all sung in english. i wonder if they are going to focus on releasing english music as a kpop group, or if there are any korean songs planned ... but what you are talking about... might actually be happening ...
I wouldn't consider them "kpop" then.
they're marketing themselves as zpop
They are launched as Zpop yes but like Amber said... the “basic kpop package” is what they will be channeling I guess, so yes it could already be happening...and oh yea, all the members of ZBoys and Zgirls are all ASIAN!
YES I was thinking about them too when they were talking about asian groups singing in English. I guess we'll see if they can be become successful
I thought they're more asian pop group(?)
Honestly this is why I love Amber, she’s so down to earth and says it like it is
i havent really studied into amber but after watching this vid shes so frikkin dope oh and MORE KPOP UNCENSORED
Amber's stuff is a pretty good mix of styles. There's all the f(x) kpop songs (which featured different edm/pop styles) & collabs with other kpop artists.
Then collabs with other non-kpop artists & her solo stuff, that are different than the f(x) songs. Too many to name here.
She & bandmate Luna have some edm collabs & kpop collabs with various artists, & a few things with just the 2 of them. (Check out their mv Lower & a live cover performance of Just a Love on the show Sugarman.) The last few years they have appeared together several times at music award shows, fashion shows, kpop concerts, kcons, etc doing their recent &/or most popular solos as well as performing a few f(x) favorites as a duo.
Speaking of fashion, Amber is also a model/commercial actress like a lot of kpop stars. She's done a lot of things but Nike features her regularly because her athletic/tomboy image in Korean music & entertainment shows made her stand out & become quite popular with Korean women & teens who felt ostracized by Korea's very traditional view of how women should dress & act.
Then there's her TH-cam channel (Amber Liu, What The Pineapple) with funny stuff done with friends, personal stuff, & bts on a lot of her music. She did a similar thing on the 1-season Ranting Monkey series she did, for a Korean channel. It shows her bts with bandmates & friends while working & more. You can find them posted on TH-cam also. She appears often on other TH-cam channels as a guest, since she's made a lot of friends & contacts through the years.
Wow AAAAMBERRR !!! I love you so much and really enjoyed this video. It was interesting topic. Thank you so much. Good luck.
omg im crying i love this so much! i love amber !!!
Yay! Thanks Mike Bow for always bringing all my favourite people together! :D
great songs will always rule the charts. It's just that the companies are not putting the resources needed to promote Asian artists in America. We need an artist that has the X factor. Which means, can write great songs, but also look good and be a great performer. If there is an Asian guy that has the writing and producing abilities of a Bruno Mars or The Weeknd , or Charlie Puth then that will be a game changer.
When they mention Sistar....and then when Amber nodded to Sistar.....love it!!!
AMBER WITH WONGFU??!!!!
When Waste It On Me first came out 99.7 (a Bay Area radio station) played it 3 times in a row
Okayyyyyy Amber is soooo cute whaaaaaaaaat. This episode was so interesting! ❤❤
Loved this ep with Amber
She just voice what I have thinking as a back in the day kpop fan (referring to her last 2 points)
OMG AMBER ON WONGFU, WE’RE AT A WHOLE NEW BALLGAME PPL
ALSO I think one reason kpop is so successful at least here is because it's such a distinct subculture. If you're into a western pop singer there's not much to that but with kpop comes a brand new history, new rules, new standards, new lingo, new style, etc. and a lot of that extends from the fact that it IS from Korea which has it's own distinct culture and history as well. Your understanding of everything within the subculture contributes to your enjoyment and sense of belonging to something relatively exclusive and unique. It's similar in this way to anime lovers which is why I think there's a lot of overlap in that area, what with fan translators and such.